TAMPA CITY COUNCIL 10 AM WORKSHOP
Thursday, November 10, 2011
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>>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This council is called to order for a
10:46:42 Roll call.
10:46:43 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
10:46:45 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
10:46:47 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
10:46:49 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Here.
10:46:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
10:46:57 Need a motion to open the workshop.
10:46:59 >> So moved.
10:47:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: By Mr. Suarez, seconded by Mrs. Mulhern.
10:47:05 All in favor?
10:47:06 The Ayes have it unanimously.
10:47:08 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Zoning administrator for the city.
10:47:18 What we have before you today are the July 2011 tax
10:47:22 There aren't many.
10:47:23 This is a very light cycle which is good.
10:47:27 First of four basic sections of this document that I read to
10:47:32 you earlier this week, the first being Ybor parking lot
10:47:35 personnel requirement.
10:47:40 In the document pages 1 through 5.
10:47:42 Again, the only reason -- and I said this before -- the only
10:47:45 reason there are so many pages is because we retain the
10:47:47 language of the code in this so that when we transition,
10:47:52 sections don't get dropped.
10:47:53 You will notice on the majority of page 3, 4 and 5, there's
10:47:57 no changes to the language whatsoever.
10:48:04 If you look at page 2 and 3, you will notice that there's a
10:48:08 new section A way is actually, if you look at page 3,
10:48:15 section C moved forward and relettered.
10:48:18 This language in the new section C at the bottom of page 2
10:48:23 is a holdover that has been in the process for the last few
10:48:27 years since the amendment to the Ybor parking standards.
10:48:31 It has been out there with the YCDC group with Ybor Chamber
10:48:37 of Commerce, with the parking lot, operators, with the YCDC
10:48:42 staff, and the neighborhood groups really figuring out how
10:48:46 to better deal with personnel and security requirements for
10:48:51 the lot.
10:48:52 So it's finally come back.
10:48:56 The standards were adopted a couple of years ago.
10:48:58 The minimal standards for different size lots.
10:49:01 And this is the last piece coming back.
10:49:03 And what it says basically is that rep private-public
10:49:08 parking lot within Ybor City, where there is a fee charged,
10:49:11 that they have to meet the following personnel standards.
10:49:14 They have to provide at least one employee on duty who shall
10:49:18 remain on the premises of the lot or garage --
10:49:23 >>MARY MULHERN: Ms. Coyle, we have a big fat book.
10:49:28 Where are you?
10:49:29 You said page 2.
10:49:30 Is this in the document with the table?
10:49:38 Okay, so page 2 of chapter 27, zoning, July.
10:49:44 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Correct.
10:49:45 >>MARY MULHERN: Thanks.
10:49:46 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No problem.
10:49:47 Just to recap, letter C, paragraph B, bottom of page 2, is
10:49:51 for parking lots that charge a fee public or private and
10:49:55 deals with the personnel requirements that at least one
10:49:57 employee has to be on duty on the lot for Thursday, Friday
10:50:00 and Saturday night between the hours of ten and four a.m. or
10:50:04 until such time as all vehicles are removed from the lot or
10:50:10 The second one is the business owner or principal operator
10:50:13 may have one employee for two lots, if those lots are
10:50:17 adjacent to one another, adjoined.
10:50:21 And when it is the same operator as a business.
10:50:27 Finally, number three, the employee must physically be on
10:50:31 the lot especially during city special events within Ybor
10:50:35 And that is to make sure that these lots just aren't manned
10:50:39 or monitored.
10:50:40 We did receive an e-mail from Mr. Carty with 717 and I do
10:50:46 have the e-mail and attachment as well.
10:50:49 He offered two minor amendments, which can certainly be
10:51:07 Mr. Carty was here earlier and I believe he said he would
10:51:10 try to make it back.
10:51:12 He made some notes on number 2 where it says the business
10:51:15 owner or principal operator may have one employee for two
10:51:18 He added, "or more."
10:51:22 Potentially sometimes the lots are in a sequence where
10:51:26 there's more than one lot that are adjoining, and it says if
10:51:30 they are adjoining lots which are owned or operated by the
10:51:33 same business, he added, if they are adjoining lots or
10:51:36 monitored within a reasonable distance of the property.
10:51:39 The only comment I would have on that one is what is
10:51:44 This is a minimum standard, that would have to be monitored
10:51:47 by code enforcement and TPD that are there on those notes
10:51:51 So if council is still inclined to accept the proposed
10:51:53 changes from Mr. Carty and transmit them, I would recommend
10:51:57 that we come up with an actual definitive number what that
10:52:02 distance would be.
10:52:04 And you also don't have to accept the amendments but just
10:52:07 transmit as is.
10:52:09 In the amendment cycles --
10:52:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Montelione.
10:52:17 >>LISA MONTELIONE: It says open for business, and payment
10:52:21 is being or has been collected.
10:52:28 That's street parking because I am in receipt of an e-mail
10:52:30 this morning that has to do with some other issues as well.
10:52:33 But if an owner says, well, it's just a vacant lot, and
10:52:38 people are parking there for free, then this wouldn't
10:52:41 address people parking on the lot when there's no payment
10:52:46 being charged.
10:52:48 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That's correct.
10:52:49 This requirement is in line with the standards for parking
10:52:51 lots that are established and permitted as legal uses.
10:52:57 Typically, I will say there are probably not a lot of vacant
10:53:00 lots out there that are free parking.
10:53:05 Normally people charge for it.
10:53:09 If someone so chooses to do that, the question I would have
10:53:12 is whether or not parking is actually an allowable use on
10:53:15 that property.
10:53:16 And we would actually run that through code enforcement and
10:53:19 it would come to us to evaluate.
10:53:21 I would venture to say it's probably residentially zoned or
10:53:24 something else.
10:53:25 And if it is, that's a pure code enforcement action and we
10:53:29 would take that through to the magistrate as an illegal use.
10:53:34 You're welcome.
10:53:34 So in the past -- and I know many of have you gone through
10:53:36 the text amendment cycle, this is I believe the first one,
10:53:40 it is at your discretion.
10:53:41 We can either discuss each one individually, take questions
10:53:46 and then transmit each one individually, or we can go
10:53:48 through all of them in sequence and discuss at the end.
10:53:54 There aren't many.
10:53:56 It's up to you.
10:53:58 Keep going?
10:54:01 The second one, CDB parking standards.
10:54:06 There is a PowerPoint for this one as well, which Mr.
10:54:10 Callahan is going to go through this one.
10:54:19 That's on page 6.
10:54:20 If we could pull up the PowerPoint.
10:54:22 >> Mike Callahan, urban design.
10:54:27 Good to be with you this morning.
10:54:29 Council, as Ms. Coyle said we are here to present
10:54:31 recommendations for the text amendments for the surface
10:54:33 parking standards in the CDB.
10:54:37 Just a little historical background for those of you on
10:54:40 council who weren't here in 2010, September, a little over a
10:54:45 year ago.
10:54:46 Staff was requested to analyze existing CBD surface parking
10:54:51 lots, and how it was going to improve upon it.
10:54:56 They asked us at that point if we would work with property
10:54:59 owners in the downtown.
10:55:02 We formed a subcommittee with the help of the downtown
10:55:05 partnership, and we set out to craft a set of standards that
10:55:11 we think would enhance the appearance of the surface parking
10:55:14 lot downtown.
10:55:17 In fact, we used the process for Ybor City which is just now
10:55:23 finishing up on the implementation process.
10:55:27 The next eight months after September, we spent a lot of
10:55:31 time not only with the property owners, but walking to each
10:55:35 and every single surface parking lot in downtown and
10:55:37 creating a --
10:55:47 I think we need some help.
10:56:19 Cable people?
10:56:20 >> There we go.
10:56:21 Thank you.
10:56:21 Council, as you may realize, downtown Tampa is not unique
10:56:26 with many other downtowns for what we call this empty lot
10:56:30 But the difference, of course, frankly, we want to do
10:56:33 something about it.
10:56:33 And we have been talking about it a long time.
10:56:35 It's important not only to our residents, to create a
10:56:41 vibrant public realm, for businesses, we want to attract
10:56:45 more businesses to the downtown.
10:56:46 We want our visitors to come back.
10:56:48 And so we clearly want our CBD to be a vibrant public realm.
10:56:57 For some reason we are not -- so what are we trying to do?
10:57:07 We are trying to simplify the existing code.
10:57:09 If you go into the code, it can be confusing, the existing,
10:57:13 the present code.
10:57:14 There's five different layers of surface parking lots.
10:57:17 We want to simplify that.
10:57:19 We clearly want to enhance what we have.
10:57:24 For improved safety and security.
10:57:27 And really enforce the existing code.
10:57:30 And quite frankly it's been lacking over the last 10, 20
10:57:37 And then also to modify the permit processes as the
10:57:40 applicants come in, they can come in easier and quicker.
10:57:46 We are very lucky, and I think many of you participated in
10:57:49 the advisory panel that was here last month, we noticed very
10:57:56 quickly the conditions of our surface parking locality.
10:58:00 They came up and actually as part of their recommendations,
10:58:05 recommended that the 2000 sustainable design assessment
10:58:11 team -- 2008 assessment team to improve many of the
10:58:15 conditions and points that they had, in fact would be asked
10:58:19 of that committee.
10:58:21 Many of these we can do, at least initially.
10:58:24 But clearly improving the landscape and streetscapes,
10:58:28 including off-street parking converting public service lots
10:58:35 to parks, and things prohibiting, in this case, a new
10:58:41 private lot, especially on the corners.
10:58:42 But I think there was an issue and they have noticed it and
10:58:52 recommended that we proceed with improvements to our
10:58:57 Now, in the course of these eight months, and looking at
10:59:00 every single lot that we surveyed, we came up with a list of
10:59:07 And there are a number of lots downtown that we feel like
10:59:11 are prototypical of what we would like to see.
10:59:14 Your lot at the former Maas Brothers site, buffers between
10:59:18 the public realm there, along the lots.
10:59:24 We have shrubs, and improved public realm.
10:59:28 You can see clearly where we have trees and shrubs that
10:59:31 delineate the parking lot, and clearly creates a desirable
10:59:38 It's not just endemic to private lots either.
10:59:41 We have some of our public lots.
10:59:45 It's a very desirable condition.
10:59:51 And then we have what we are here to try to fix.
10:59:56 These are improvement opportunities.
10:59:57 There's many areas on the north and south of the CBD that
11:00:02 the owners have just stopped reinvesting in, in the
11:00:06 We would like to show you a couple of instances of that.
11:00:11 We have where cars are impeding on the public realm.
11:00:14 We have chain link fences that are now banned from the
11:00:18 downtown area.
11:00:21 Clearly, the ADA spaces are not up to the accessibility code
11:00:27 where they need to be code with concrete or asphalt.
11:00:30 And the chain link, potholes in many of the surface lots
11:00:41 where we investment had not occurred.
11:00:43 We have concretes poles with rebar sticking out between the
11:00:46 sidewalk and the holding back the cars.
11:00:59 Clearly there's a number of opportunities in the north and
11:01:02 We are trying to have a much stiffer code.
11:01:05 Right now there's five or six different categories of
11:01:07 surface parking lot.
11:01:08 We would like to simplify that down to two or three.
11:01:15 Quite frankly, the grandfather position comes in, if you are
11:01:22 a legally established surface parking lot and can prove
11:01:24 such, you are in fact grandfathered from these standards.
11:01:31 The code again, we are trying to establish pedestrian
11:01:34 corridors in the downtown.
11:01:36 There's clearly some streets that have much higher emphasis
11:01:40 of pedestrian traffic on them.
11:01:42 We want to revise the landscape, the fencing, the parking
11:01:48 surface requirements.
11:01:51 And here is what we are proposing.
11:01:53 Quite frankly, we have a core zone and a north and south
11:01:59 The core zone being the primary area.
11:02:08 There's also some outlying areas that we feel probably would
11:02:11 assume a lesser standard.
11:02:21 Specifically in the core zone, trees in the perimeter, trees
11:02:24 and shrubs, and all plants must be irrigated.
11:02:28 Paving requirements, a surface apron has to adhere to, not
11:02:33 only to the Tampa transportation tech manual but D.O.T.
11:02:37 standards, drive aisles, it's very specific in 246.
11:02:44 Parking stalls shall be delineated with either ballards or
11:02:49 wheel stops.
11:02:50 ADA must comply with the code and pedestrian access, you
11:02:55 have to have access from the parking area out to the
11:03:09 Sign requirements, maximum heist ten.
11:03:13 And then only one sign per access point.
11:03:15 It's pretty simple.
11:03:18 While we don't necessarily encourage a lot of fencing, if
11:03:21 you are going to have it, black chain link fence or
11:03:27 ornamental iron fence.
11:03:29 And that's already specified in chapter 27 in 441.
11:03:33 Maximum height of four feet.
11:03:35 Lighting, we clearly want these areas to be illuminated to
11:03:40 provide safe parking, pedestrian environment.
11:03:44 In the north and south zone, anything that happens or occurs
11:03:48 along the black lines which are designated the primary
11:03:52 pedestrian corridor, there needs to be a three-foot
11:03:55 landscape buffer with trees and shrubs.
11:03:58 And then also the plantings need to be irrigated.
11:04:03 Just for your information, the low-volume would exempt them
11:04:06 in times of drought from irrigating.
11:04:08 So it's not a concern.
11:04:13 Those areas that are not a part of the primary pedestrian
11:04:18 corridor, which is those black lines again, clearly the
11:04:22 aprons need to be according to standard.
11:04:28 The drive aisles, pavement is not required.
11:04:32 We would like to see real stops -- wheel stops.
11:04:35 Actually wheel stops would not be required internally but
11:04:38 along the perimeter, the ADA again, there needs to be
11:04:42 pedestrian access, 100-foot intervals.
11:04:50 The non-primary corridors, there's two option.
11:04:54 You can do a little fence with an 18-inch landscape area or
11:04:59 landscape buffer.
11:05:01 Alternative irrigation is recommended, it wouldn't
11:05:06 necessarily have to be irrigated, but that watering truck
11:05:11 could water every 90 to 100-day period.
11:05:16 And that time line, just to tell you where we are and where
11:05:19 we are going.
11:05:20 We are here, July of 2011 is where we brought to this cycle,
11:05:28 text amendment for this cycle.
11:05:29 We had a public information meeting last week.
11:05:33 And then we are here today.
11:05:36 Planning Commission meeting next month, should it be your
11:05:41 desire to transmit it on the November planning.
11:05:48 Second reading in February.
11:05:50 And there's an implementation phase up until December of
11:05:57 So that's the presentation.
11:06:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: "any other questions by council members?
11:06:10 Mr. Suarez?
11:06:12 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I don't know, Mr. Callahan, if you are going
11:06:15 to be able to answer this.
11:06:16 In terms of issues or problems with that, the one question I
11:06:22 do have, isn't a lot of what's going on with some of the
11:06:24 parking areas sort of the lowest common denominators because
11:06:29 of economic conditions, meaning that it's so cheap to park
11:06:35 downtown now at some of these surface lots that they don't
11:06:38 really have to put a lot of money into the lot itself, and
11:06:45 I'll just play devil's advocate, if we do implement these
11:06:48 code changes, and they can just say, listen, I'm not making
11:06:51 that much money, I'm just going to leave it empty and not
11:06:55 operate as a parking lot.
11:06:56 Is that a possibility?
11:06:57 >> It certainly is a possibility.
11:06:58 It could be that.
11:06:59 >> My second question is, has there been any kind of
11:07:02 analysis in terms of what kind of economic impact this is
11:07:06 going to have for those types of scenarios?
11:07:10 Obviously if you are not putting a lot of time and money
11:07:12 into your parking lot, because you know you can make X
11:07:16 number of dollars during a lightning game, and that will
11:07:19 keep you going for the rest of the year, you know, 40 dates
11:07:26 at the Times Forum, and then you don't really put a lot of
11:07:28 money into it because that's really your entire margin,
11:07:33 what's going to make them actually do this going forward,
11:07:37 other than to say, look, I'm just going to throw my hands up
11:07:40 and not do it?
11:07:41 And again, I know you may not have that answer.
11:07:44 It's kind of an unfair question to you.
11:07:46 >> Well, you know, it could be that they decide to cease
11:07:54 their parking operations but they would still be held to a
11:07:57 higher standard for code compliance with what that lot looks
11:08:04 I think it's important to understand that many of these lots
11:08:08 have been functioning for years and years without any
11:08:14 attempt to reinvestment back, so they are just taking in
11:08:18 money, they are taking in funding, in many cases the lots
11:08:23 are substandard, especially north and south where it's still
11:08:27 drawing a source of revenue.
11:08:30 And we feel like in this case, it wouldn't take much to
11:08:36 improve those to at least a very minimal standard.
11:08:38 >> Thank you, Mr. Callahan.
11:08:42 I appreciate it.
11:08:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen.
11:08:44 >>HARRY COHEN: First, I would just like to remained the
11:08:50 council members that our enterprise fund for city-owned
11:08:54 parking garages is going to be our biggest single financial
11:09:00 challenge in the next couple of budget years, and any
11:09:04 changes that we make to codes regarding parking, we should
11:09:09 be very cognizant that those things are going to have an
11:09:12 impact on our revenues in the parking garages that may be in
11:09:19 the adjacent area.
11:09:20 That's number one.
11:09:22 Number two, just a comment, that when the Urban Land
11:09:24 Institute was here recently making suggestions for things
11:09:28 that we could do to improve the persons of the city, one of
11:09:32 their primary recommendations was actually to encourage the
11:09:36 planting of flowers on property that were being used that
11:09:41 were either vacant or being used as parking lots.
11:09:46 So that's something else that we may want to consider
11:09:50 talking about as we move through this cycle.
11:09:54 Thank you.
11:09:54 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you. 2008, the FDOT study, and
11:10:06 here it is 2011 and we still haven't implemented, or some of
11:10:09 the things they had suggested back in 2008.
11:10:11 So I would really like to move forward and not just keep
11:10:17 letting the years go by and still we are not doing anything.
11:10:23 A couple of things.
11:10:24 A question.
11:10:24 How many of all the parking lots that we have that we are
11:10:28 discussing, how many parking lots are going to be
11:10:32 grandfathered in?
11:10:38 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
11:10:40 That's not an easy question to answer.
11:10:42 I haven't necessarily gone out and made that determination.
11:10:45 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well, a majority?
11:10:49 A minority?
11:10:49 A lot?
11:10:50 A little?
11:10:53 I guess what I am getting at -- and --
11:10:58 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Let me sort of -- this is kind of a
11:11:01 feedback on the answer that Mike gave as well based on the
11:11:03 standards that we are proposing today.
11:11:06 We have standards in the code.
11:11:07 You mention -- he mentioned approximately five or six
11:11:11 different types of parking uses downtown.
11:11:13 There are standards for improvements on those lots as well.
11:11:18 We had a special event, an interim lot, accessory lot,
11:11:22 principle use lot.
11:11:23 We have only one approved interim parking lot downtown, and
11:11:28 it's a five-year permit with a one-year extension.
11:11:30 It is the one that you saw in the Maas Brothers site in the
11:11:33 In a other lots downtown have an active permit for an
11:11:37 interim parking lot use.
11:11:39 It begs the question of, what are all those like out there?
11:11:43 Were they legally established?
11:11:45 That question I have not answered.
11:11:47 It is something through a formal decision process, something
11:11:50 a profit owner has a rate to ask, and it is something
11:11:53 through our implementation stage that we will look at.
11:11:56 But just know for the record, the lots are what they are, it
11:12:01 is not saying whether or not they meet current code.
11:12:04 I would venture to say many of them probably do not meet
11:12:06 current code.
11:12:07 What their status and nonconformity I have not determined as
11:12:11 of yet.
11:12:11 So I think, yeah, I want to move forward with the changes
11:12:16 here, obviously.
11:12:18 There are many good suggestions.
11:12:20 But I think we also need to start enforcing what we have,
11:12:28 and then also when we get new standards in place, we need to
11:12:33 enforce those, because having the standards, or not having
11:12:36 the standards, is immaterial if we are not enforcing them.
11:12:40 And again, going back all the way to 2008, I attended that
11:12:45 It was part of the round table.
11:12:47 I went to the presentation they did at Stetson.
11:12:50 It was beautiful.
11:12:51 It was wonderful.
11:12:52 But we never did anything about it.
11:12:54 The other thing is I had asked that you, Ms. Coyle, present
11:12:58 this at the economic competitiveness committee, because any
11:13:02 changes that were contemplated in that sort of economic
11:13:07 competitiveness committee, do they have any suggestions, any
11:13:10 comments, concerns at all?
11:13:12 >> No, I hand it out to everybody, and I went through very
11:13:16 briefly what the changes were going to be overall from the
11:13:20 general clean-up to the other changes as well.
11:13:23 I have no comments at that point.
11:13:25 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So we are hoping -- Cole.
11:13:30 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I haven't received any e-mails back or
11:13:32 >>LISA MONTELIONE: You may want to remind them before, I
11:13:36 don't know, before we move forward we want to hear from
11:13:40 >>CATHERINE COYLE: And I will just remind the council
11:13:42 members that I have been through this process before. If
11:13:46 you are so inclined to present to the commission, they
11:13:50 recommend approval with consistency, it comes back with the
11:13:53 ability to make changes to the language when it comes back
11:13:55 in the public hearing process.
11:13:56 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay, thank you.
11:13:57 >>MARY MULHERN: These are all great ideas, and I think that
11:14:05 a lot of them that Ms. Coyle and Mr. McDonaugh and a lot of
11:14:14 people didn't actually need consultants to do it, and the
11:14:22 partnership, too, we have been talking about these things
11:14:24 for years.
11:14:25 So I think they are all great, and we should definitely go
11:14:30 forward with them.
11:14:31 But those other people have been suggesting on this board.
11:14:37 The problem is that beautifying the parking lots -- isn't
11:14:41 beautifying the parking lots.
11:14:42 The problem is getting rid of so many parking lots and there
11:14:45 are so many reasons to do that.
11:14:46 I remember, oh, probably four years ago talking about this
11:14:52 problem, and Councilman Saul-Sena had been the leader on
11:14:55 this and helped get the FDOT thing started, too.
11:14:59 But the fact that we have all of these empty lots has to do
11:15:07 with the history of allowing properties to deteriorate, and
11:15:13 the code enforcement part doesn't just come in with whatever
11:15:17 codes we have about how your parking lot looks, but it's the
11:15:21 codes that we have about protecting our architecture, and
11:15:28 the actual, beautiful, historic identity of the city.
11:15:31 So it's the intention to look at this map with all the red
11:15:35 city parking lots downtown.
11:15:41 It's incredible.
11:15:42 Not city lots.
11:15:43 I don't know how many of those are city lots or not.
11:15:45 But I guess my point is, the recommendations that have sat
11:15:50 around for all these years, what we need is for the city,
11:15:57 the administration, to make a decision that they don't want
11:16:00 to have all these parking lots.
11:16:02 And that maybe we should be buying up some land before they
11:16:08 get bought by somebody else to have a flat lot.
11:16:11 Because if the city bought it, we could have not only a
11:16:15 park, or just, now, flowers would be great.
11:16:18 So would grass.
11:16:19 So would letting anything grow there as opposed to just
11:16:22 having, you know, asphalt or dirt.
11:16:25 That raises the property value.
11:16:27 That was something that was done in Philadelphia when they
11:16:31 had a city that's really improved the way that they look, is
11:16:35 they just took all their empty lots and threw grass seed and
11:16:39 let it grow.
11:16:40 So anything is an improvement over a dirt lot.
11:16:42 So I think that we have to have that commitment to reduce
11:16:47 these, and the benefit of Councilman Cohen was saying is
11:16:50 that then we can maybe make some money off of our city-owned
11:16:54 parking garages.
11:16:55 So I think the other thing that we need to do is to
11:17:02 I have to compliment Mayor Iorio when she was here with her
11:17:06 starting to do the two-waying of streets and on-street
11:17:12 parking as we continue to do that downtown.
11:17:14 That would be huge improvement. So if we start to have
11:17:17 that, and we start to find better uses for empty land.
11:17:23 So there's not a whole lot we can do on this council.
11:17:26 But I think we will all be willing to have nicer looking
11:17:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Capin.
11:17:37 >>YVONNE CAPIN: As Councilwoman Montelione brought up, we
11:17:39 can put all this and everything else in place, and
11:17:45 enforcement -- and that's a key word around here is
11:17:49 When we look at vacant lots that are being used for parking,
11:17:54 everything is complaint driven.
11:17:57 Unless trees there's a complaint, there's no enforcement.
11:18:02 I think that needs to be repaired.
11:18:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
11:18:07 Let me say this, Ms. Coyle.
11:18:10 This is not new.
11:18:12 This started way back 25, 30 years ago, with the lots in
11:18:17 Ybor City when there was some standard for growing, for
11:18:25 buffering, and I don't know if all those lots are in
11:18:28 conformity like was mentioned earlier.
11:18:30 That was done 20, 25 years ago.
11:18:33 And no law is a law unless it's accepted by the public. Now
11:18:43 I am not asking you to do a study about how many lots are in
11:18:45 conformity, how many are not.
11:18:48 But it would be in the future if you could advise us of all
11:18:53 the improvement lots, how they have come about, and that you
11:18:57 can see changes.
11:18:58 You know, we sit here too often and not realize that not too
11:19:01 many years ago there was no Channelside, the port of Tampa
11:19:06 didn't look as nice as it does now, the buildings.
11:19:09 There was no Meridian there.
11:19:13 Used to be elephants come in and leave.
11:19:15 And that was the big thing in all the newspapers, the
11:19:18 elephants have arrived.
11:19:18 Things of that nature.
11:19:19 So what we are looking at is a change in mind-set or change.
11:19:25 And again credit to the downtown group, the partnership.
11:19:29 They started putting up these big planters for flowers.
11:19:34 And it looks real 90s you may not recognize them but your
11:19:38 subconscious does, because you see with your eyes.
11:19:42 So therefore those little subtle changes make a vast
11:19:46 difference, not only in this city, but throughout any city
11:19:51 you go to.
11:19:52 And your eyes is like getting a meal.
11:19:56 If it doesn't appear to be good it's not going to taste
11:19:59 So what I am saying is, I think this is a step in the right
11:20:03 But what do you think consensus is going to be on the
11:20:07 acceptance of this plan?
11:20:10 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I'll make a couple points.
11:20:12 I agree with you on enforcement and rules.
11:20:14 If we have a rule, we should enforce it.
11:20:20 We made careful recognition of the north and south zones.
11:20:25 Those truly are redevelopment potential areas, not the core.
11:20:29 There's a lot of vacant land, a lot of grass lots, a lot of
11:20:33 miscellaneous materials that are used for parking off and
11:20:35 on, in an interim way.
11:20:40 We, as staff, I even believe the property owners that own
11:20:43 those lots would certainly like to redevelop them at some
11:20:45 That's what we found in Ybor City as well.
11:20:47 And that's the second point I would make for Ybor City, is a
11:20:50 couple of years ago, that new standard was adopted, I'm
11:20:57 happy to say that all of the lots that were on that list
11:21:00 have now either come into compliance, or literally at the
11:21:04 end of the process to be in compliance.
11:21:06 So we have had great success from the last three years with
11:21:09 the parking lot standards in Ybor.
11:21:11 Downtown, the second phase of that, because of the long
11:21:15 history of parking issues in both areas.
11:21:28 That's my two points based on the comments.
11:21:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions by council members?
11:21:36 The public?
11:21:36 Anyone in the public who would like to speak?
11:21:39 We have set aside three minutes per speaker, total of 30
11:21:43 minutes for this discussion.
11:21:43 >> Thank you, Mr. Miranda.
11:21:46 My name is Jason McCarty.
11:21:48 I'm actually the president and CEO of a company called 717
11:21:52 I also am a substantial property owner in Tampa.
11:21:56 And I just want to bring up just a few brief things.
11:22:00 Today to council.
11:22:02 One, I want to commend the city staff including Mike
11:22:05 Callahan and Catherine Coyle and even the downtown
11:22:08 partnership, Karen crest, for putting together a good team
11:22:13 in the last 12 months looking at standards and looking at
11:22:16 what the current conditions are and trying to make some
11:22:19 positive changes for the districts in downtown Tampa.
11:22:24 And our company and my partners are very much in support of
11:22:28 these changes to make downtown look better.
11:22:30 And we are going to be working with their team in the future
11:22:34 to get our lots into compliance.
11:22:36 I want to make that very clear to council.
11:22:37 We also just recently, I think someone brought up Ybor City.
11:22:40 We just went through about five or six conversions with the
11:22:44 YCDC and Vince Pardo and Corrine, and as Kathryn mentioned,
11:22:51 we are fully compliant and I think most of the others are
11:22:54 almost done.
11:22:55 So we have seen positive changes in the Ybor City district.
11:22:59 I did review just recently the current north and south
11:23:07 I just have two explanations.
11:23:08 That's really what I want to speak about today.
11:23:10 The first is I would like the city staff to consider adding
11:23:14 language to include tandem parking.
11:23:17 To these new codes.
11:23:18 And also extend the new requirements city-wide, not just the
11:23:22 CBD district.
11:23:24 What I mean by that is if you look at the current map you
11:23:26 will see the north and south part of downtown.
11:23:28 But they are not looking at the riverwalk, they are not
11:23:30 looking where Tampa general is going on that area of
11:23:34 Kennedy, they are not looking to the Channel District, and
11:23:36 to be very honest, with where my office is now on the north
11:23:40 of the interstate where Franklin Street is, these new
11:23:44 standards will not hit any of those areas.
11:23:46 So the question I have for Catherine Coyle and her staff, if
11:23:51 we are going to make this substantial change, land how long
11:23:54 we have been here looking at it.
11:23:55 I think you mentioned three years or whatever.
11:23:57 Can't we look at extending the boundaries of this current
11:24:00 ordinance to maybe a city-wide look?
11:24:04 And, two, the current commercial parking lots within the
11:24:07 city limits do not allow for tandem parking.
11:24:10 And as you know there's a parking lot just across the street
11:24:12 to be eliminated, they have the stack parking.
11:24:16 They have someone assist withholding keys, and those related
11:24:20 And I think there is a benefit to be able to have that car
11:24:25 towed because in the future if the city continues, and I own
11:24:28 parking in 17 states around the country, and they allow for
11:24:32 this type of language in their current codes, allowing for
11:24:34 an attendant to double park cars and stack cars, and provide
11:24:37 that tape of service to the end user which is the guest.
11:24:41 Thank you very much.
11:24:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me just suggest that you get with
11:24:46 Cathy Coyle and look at some of those revision made in
11:24:49 different states and see if they are Conn comparable to us.
11:24:52 I agree with some of the stuff, the two items you brought
11:24:56 There's some reservation, however, like taking a bite at the
11:24:59 apple, or taking one bite at the old apple.
11:25:04 You might have excess when you take the whole apple.
11:25:11 I think the city is trying to do one bite at the time so we
11:25:15 can control what we have, and I think those areas would
11:25:17 expand depending on the progress of the north and south
11:25:19 areas that they so quantify.
11:25:23 Yes, ma'am.
11:25:23 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Mr. Carty and I met yesterday with Mr.
11:25:28 Callahan, and did he raise these two issues, and the tandem
11:25:32 parking issue, I have to agree with him, that is a manned or
11:25:38 person's lot, a city-run lot.
11:25:41 >> Contiguous.
11:25:43 >> Yes.
11:25:44 I think that is potential addition to this language.
11:25:46 But we could move, transmit, direct us to add that language.
11:25:51 The third is extending it to the entire city.
11:25:54 I would say that that would fall more in line with a motion
11:25:58 for us to come back in the next cycle to do that.
11:26:01 As you notice, we did identify some primary pedestrian
11:26:04 We went through different types of standards for different
11:26:06 types of parking.
11:26:08 It took a little bigger study especially given the size of
11:26:11 the city to do that.
11:26:12 I would hate to just make that amendment here without having
11:26:16 actually thought about it.
11:26:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I agree with you.
11:26:20 You just put it in much more eloquent words than I did.
11:26:23 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Thank you.
11:26:25 >> I'm trying to be nice in my first meeting.
11:26:30 >> Good morning.
11:26:34 My name is Dean brickle -- Bricklemyer, and I'm here this
11:26:40 morning on behalf of an owner who owns three lots that would
11:26:43 be affected by these regulations.
11:26:47 And the suggestions in very mailed terms, what this owner is
11:26:51 going to be impacted.
11:26:54 I think in the materials that you were provided, there was
11:26:56 an example of the bringing into compliance of one block that
11:27:02 was estimated to cost $160,000.
11:27:05 That's one of the three lots that my client owns.
11:27:13 That would be a devastating impact on this property owner
11:27:16 who owned this property for 23 years.
11:27:18 It's not a question of reinvestment.
11:27:20 It's a question of the initial investment paying taxes every
11:27:24 year, having interim use of a parking lot.
11:27:27 He's approved for an office tower or condo tower on the
11:27:30 large parcel.
11:27:31 But this is not a very good time to ask him to spend
11:27:35 $160,000 to improve his lot.
11:27:38 It's not a good time to require him to increase his rates to
11:27:42 try to cover that cost.
11:27:44 To those people who are parking there.
11:27:45 He's at the outer edge of the city parking area, and those
11:27:49 people who park there, park there because they pay the
11:27:53 lowest rates for parking downtown.
11:27:55 I'm not accustomed to stepping in front of moving trains.
11:27:58 I understand that there is a momentum to have some
11:28:03 regulations approved, and what we are going to suggest is
11:28:09 some alternatives as it affects this particular area of the
11:28:12 perimeter of the primary parking area in the CBD, and we'll
11:28:17 work with Kathy and Mike and hopefully bring those back to
11:28:21 you when these are considered at a public hearing.
11:28:23 Thank you.
11:28:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Bricklemyer.
11:28:28 Anyone else?
11:28:30 Any further comments from the council?
11:28:33 Yes, ma'am.
11:28:34 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I want to go ahead and ask that the
11:28:40 tandem parking be added to this language in this cycle, and
11:28:48 if I could clarify with the inclusion that it is an attended
11:28:55 And city-wide I understand, the higher city is tremendous.
11:29:04 Just my district alone covers a lot of land.
11:29:06 But I do have that concern about just outside of the central
11:29:12 business district, the area where the 717 office is, I'm
11:29:17 very familiar with, where cafe hay is and the Asian market.
11:29:21 And so maybe the next cycle, we can look at expanding the
11:29:28 district in the downtown area or urban area where it makes
11:29:34 sense and bringing it city-wide to areas of Tampa Palms
11:29:38 probably wouldn't make sense because there's a lot of
11:29:40 regulations that already exist within the communities there.
11:29:44 >>CATHERINE COYLE: What I raised to Mr. Carty yesterday, a
11:29:48 around downtown, the CBD periphery, in the comp plan and
11:29:54 brought forward already in the code for bonus provisions, as
11:29:57 far as it already being kind of a regulatory framework, it
11:30:00 might be easy enough just to create a parking standard for
11:30:02 the periphery, which would potentially address that issue,
11:30:07 and that is the next kind of step, the next bite of the
11:30:10 apple to go along with Mr. Miranda's analogy, which really
11:30:13 services that edge area for the downtown.
11:30:16 >> And how long would it take?
11:30:17 What's the time frame to bring that back?
11:30:19 Because the thing is, one of the presenters at ULI talked
11:30:26 about that day talked about the entry into the city, and
11:30:29 when you got off the interstate, you are getting off the
11:30:32 interstate in those periphery areas.
11:30:35 You are not getting off Tampa interstate in the downtown, in
11:30:38 the central business district.
11:30:40 And it's really the periphery area that should take
11:30:48 precedence and be looked at right away because that is one
11:30:51 of the things that they had mentioned, was the gateway
11:30:54 entrances just really don't do this city justice.
11:30:59 And this is one of the ways we can help make that happen.
11:31:10 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I agree.
11:31:11 That's where the flower plantings came along I-75.
11:31:15 And what council can do is make the motion to put it in the
11:31:19 January cycle that closes January 15th.
11:31:21 That would give me enough time to actually write it, get it
11:31:24 in there.
11:31:24 It does create an additional framework.
11:31:27 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I will make that motion to bring the
11:31:29 central business district periphery parking standards before
11:31:33 us for the January cycle.
11:31:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione,
11:31:37 seconded by Ms. Mulhern.
11:31:43 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
11:31:46 Opposed, nay.
11:31:47 The Ayes have it unanimously.
11:31:49 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Motion to add the language for tandem
11:31:54 parking in reference to lots that have attendants, as well
11:31:59 as adding to the language of this cycle and move forward.
11:32:03 >> Second.
11:32:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seconded by Mr. Cohen.
11:32:08 Discussion of that motion?
11:32:10 All in favor of the of the motion please indicate by saying
11:32:13 Opposed, nay.
11:32:13 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:32:16 Yes, ma'am.
11:32:19 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The third piece deals with
11:32:20 nonconformities starting on page 17.
11:32:26 The language buff addresses a couple different things that
11:32:28 have occurred.
11:32:29 I did send you the two summaries from Weslaw, the two cases
11:32:34 that came forward.
11:32:36 This is regarding nonconform uses and structures.
11:32:40 Our code is very black and white as far as the use, 180 days
11:32:45 you lose your use.
11:32:47 It's been made clear through the courts that there actually
11:32:52 has to be demonstrated a voluntary source of evidence of
11:32:57 intention to abandon that use.
11:32:59 What we have done is clarified that language, that there is
11:33:02 an abandonment of use, the intent to abandon.
11:33:05 We have also provided additional language for the type of
11:33:07 evidence that would be provided, and that it links back to
11:33:11 the formal decision process.
11:33:13 It's kind of a clean-up item based on the case law that's
11:33:16 come out in the last three or four years.
11:33:18 It's also a clean-up item relating to the newer formal
11:33:21 decision process that we have, that we actually take
11:33:24 nonconformities through.
11:33:26 That process, as a remainder, there is an open record period
11:33:30 with public notice, and then the record period closes, and
11:33:35 if all the evidence that was provided, to the public and
11:33:38 owner as well as public record and makes a determination
11:33:41 based on competent, substantial evidence.
11:33:43 Then it would go through a review period, review process,
11:33:47 and ultimately through City Council.
11:33:50 That's the clean-up from that.
11:33:51 And page 19 are the general clean-up items which there's
11:33:56 five bullets there.
11:33:58 It literally is cleaning up some older references in the
11:34:00 code as far as the transportation impact analysis manual,
11:34:03 alternative design exception, Florida building code, and
11:34:06 southern building code.
11:34:09 Minimum for refuse collection as opposed to maximum, which I
11:34:13 think is a scrivener's error, and when we changed it to
11:34:16 annual reports for alcoholic beverage, restaurant, I missed
11:34:20 one paragraph where -- I know, it happens.
11:34:27 But those are the general clean-up items between the
11:34:30 nonconformities and the other five items.
11:34:32 If there's any questions, I'm available.
11:34:35 And we respectfully request that you transmit all the items
11:34:38 to the Planning Commission.
11:34:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Discussion by council members?
11:34:43 >> Motion to transmit the item.
11:34:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion to transmit the item by Mrs.
11:34:50 Montelione, second bid Mr. Suarez.
11:34:52 Will any discussion?
11:34:53 All in favor?
11:34:54 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:34:56 Anyone else in the public like to speak at this time?
11:35:00 You don't have to leave now.
11:35:01 >>CATHY COYLE: I would be remiss if I didn't recognize
11:35:07 Ashley Anderson.
11:35:10 She has developed them with Mr. Callahan.
11:35:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:35:16 It was so boring the media is leaving.
11:35:19 [ Laughter ]
11:35:20 Any further discussion by council members?
11:35:21 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Chairman, I had a special request
11:35:28 under new business.
11:35:29 >> I am going to go to new business now left to right.
11:35:32 Last time I went right to left if I remember.
11:35:34 Let me start to the left.
11:35:39 Go on.
11:35:42 >>YVONNE CAPIN: The process of scheduling text amendment
11:35:46 Why didn't we discuss that?
11:35:49 That's part of the agenda item.
11:35:50 And they just left.
11:35:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: My sense subpoena she said in January
11:35:57 they were going to do that.
11:36:00 Submit whatever you want by January 15th.
11:36:05 In order to get this moving.
11:36:06 Am I correct?
11:36:07 >> I believe so.
11:36:11 The text amendment cycles are set out as a regularly
11:36:14 scheduled --
11:36:19 >>YVONNE CAPIN: That's what I wanted to discuss.
11:36:23 That's what I asked for here.
11:36:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let's do this.
11:36:27 Why don't you meet with Cathy Coyle, come back, advise us,
11:36:32 and sets a special-special meeting.
11:36:33 If something has to be done that hasn't been adhered to
11:36:40 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
11:36:41 Thank you.
11:36:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Left to right.
11:36:43 Any new business, Mr. Cohen?
11:36:48 Ms. Mulhern?
11:36:51 Mr. Reddick?
11:36:53 >>FRANK REDDICK: Yes, Mr. Chairman.
11:36:58 In lieu of the two incidents that recently took place with
11:37:01 the shooting at the club manila as well as the one on Busch
11:37:05 Boulevard, I want a rapid response by the city but I want to
11:37:16 request that the fire marshal report to us to give us some
11:37:28 information about club manila, and also want to request that
11:37:36 TPD also appear before us on November 17 under staff
11:37:45 reports, to give us a report on the number of citations
11:37:50 issued to this club -- particular club or any other club
11:37:54 that is in the community at this time.
11:37:59 Finally, I want to request that the legal department review
11:38:03 Florida statute 790.06.
11:38:10 That involves no carry guns in establishments in the city,
11:38:18 State of Florida, including schools, bars, courthouses and
11:38:23 so on.
11:38:24 So I ask the legal department to come give us a report on
11:38:26 that in reference to that in clubs in the City of Tampa, and
11:38:33 the final thing I would request that this council submit a
11:38:36 resolution in honor of former council member Betty P.
11:38:44 Wiggins, and I want to have that information as soon as I
11:38:47 can get it.
11:38:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Reddick, sed
11:38:52 second by Mrs. Mulhern.
11:38:54 >> Do you want in the one motion?
11:38:58 >>FRANK REDDICK: The first one deals with, if I recall, of
11:39:01 the maker for people that do fire department and the police
11:39:09 department, see what the standards are, and if there's been
11:39:12 any violation of those standards.
11:39:14 And I think the specific club was mentioned was club manila,
11:39:17 along with any others, I believe, was said.
11:39:20 >>FRANK REDDICK: Correct.
11:39:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We'll vote on that one first.
11:39:24 >> And legal.
11:39:24 >> (off microphone).
11:39:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The following date is not available
11:39:38 Is it the holidays?
11:39:42 >> The first available.
11:39:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The next council meeting.
11:39:46 >>LISA MONTELIONE: If we are talking about specific clubs,
11:39:51 there was a shooting as well on Busch Boulevard.
11:39:57 >>FRANK REDDICK: I couldn't think of the name of it.
11:40:00 All right.
11:40:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Reddick, a second
11:40:04 by Mrs. Montelione.
11:40:06 Any discussion on that one motion?
11:40:09 >> May I offer a friendly amendment to the motion?
11:40:12 To ask also the legal department to come back with some
11:40:18 analysis of whether or not we can look at asking clubs that
11:40:26 allow people that are 18 to be admitted when alcohol is
11:40:29 being served to perhaps close earlier.
11:40:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There's acceptance from the maker.
11:40:39 Friendly motion by Mr. Cohen.
11:40:42 I still have the same second, I believe.
11:40:44 Any further discussion?
11:40:45 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
11:40:48 Opposed, nay.
11:40:49 The Ayes have it unanimously.
11:40:50 Anything else, Mr. Reddick?
11:40:53 You have a second motion.
11:40:55 >>FRANK REDDICK: I believe it's a resolution that City
11:41:00 Council present a resolution to former council member Betty
11:41:05 P. Wiggins on her passing, and I can pass that information
11:41:09 to the family.
11:41:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Reddick, second by
11:41:13 Ms. Mulhern.
11:41:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You did say resolution, sir?
11:41:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And he did say Betty P. Wiggins.
11:41:23 I remember one time when I had the honor of working with her
11:41:26 and I called her Betty Wiggins, and she said call her Betty
11:41:31 P. Wiggins.
11:41:32 She's a real nice person who did a great service to this
11:41:35 Any further discussion of that motion?
11:41:36 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
11:41:39 Opposed, nay.
11:41:40 The Ayes have it unanimously.
11:41:42 Anything else?
11:41:43 >>FRANK REDDICK: No, sir.
11:41:44 >> I'm not sure if this is new business but it in the vein
11:41:47 of what he was talking about.
11:41:49 Should I hold it for new business or talk about it right
11:41:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If you have it for new business or not.
11:41:57 >>YVONNE CAPIN: We all know that the club Empire closed.
11:42:01 Then earlier this week there were five people shot at
11:42:03 another club.
11:42:04 And it would seem that we have a problem in Ybor.
11:42:07 But, narcs we do not have a problem in Ybor, we have a
11:42:11 problem in the City of Tampa.
11:42:15 The problems in West Tampa.
11:42:18 I was informed that there was a discharge of arms in the
11:42:25 SoHo night spot, and it was reported as a disturbance.
11:42:32 Along that, with Busch Boulevard, which happened last night,
11:42:38 and the city can or will not properly regulate the
11:42:42 establishments that have brought this up, I have brought
11:42:47 this to council twice, and could I be sit here and say I
11:42:57 told you so but I won't because I brought it to a previous
11:43:01 Each time I brought this up, I was told that enforcement was
11:43:06 And every time I hear that, I cringe.
11:43:10 Can you imagine someone driving up and down Dale Mabry at 80
11:43:15 miles per hour and asking the police chief why the traffic
11:43:20 laws are not being enforced, and being told that it is
11:43:25 complaint driven, and unless we get a complaint, we cannot
11:43:33 We can pass all the laws and ordinances and rules we want,
11:43:36 but unless we are capable of enforcing them, they are
11:43:41 And as it stands now, the rules and conditions we permit are
11:43:45 not being enforced.
11:43:47 And that is happening.
11:43:50 Some establishments simply ignore them.
11:43:55 When a mother comes before us here at council asking why her
11:43:59 child was shot and killed, and we have no explanation for
11:44:03 it, I will be dusting off my motion for comprehensive,
11:44:11 proactive alcoholic beverage ordinance for the third time.
11:44:16 I'm asking council its pleasure.
11:44:19 Are you ready to address it, or do you prefer a special
11:44:22 called workshop on alcoholic beverage?
11:44:26 We as a society deem it acceptable to imbibe alcoholic
11:44:33 We also regulate it.
11:44:35 And it should not stop at the state level.
11:44:39 That's what I'm asking.
11:44:40 I want to make a motion for a workshop on alcoholic beverage
11:44:45 permitting compliance enforcement.
11:44:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me address this.
11:44:51 And I am not trying to sway anybody's opinion one way or the
11:44:55 When you start looking at these things, it looks so simple.
11:44:59 Why don't you close that one down, why don't you close that
11:45:01 one down?
11:45:02 And you get involved in the Tuttle of closing them down.
11:45:06 It becomes a bit more complicated.
11:45:08 You see, downtown rezone just the building.
11:45:13 You rezone the land forever.
11:45:15 So first of all I am not trying to -- I think the legal
11:45:21 department ought to come in.
11:45:22 If you want a workshop, I'm not against it but you have to
11:45:25 give us a comprehensive view of what we are dealing with.
11:45:27 And how do you solve a problem?
11:45:30 Not just by talking about it.
11:45:32 I don't believe the police department would allow anybody
11:45:35 speeding 80 miles per hour and have to wait for some citizen
11:45:38 to comply and say, hey, look what I saw.
11:45:41 I think if they see that they will issue a ticket.
11:45:46 In fact, I know council members who have received tickets
11:45:49 So that's all kept secret.
11:45:52 [ Laughter ]
11:45:54 What I'm saying is -- it wasn't me, by the way.
11:45:58 But what I am saying it's a lot more intense and a lot more
11:46:03 detailed than this.
11:46:04 And I don't want this to be taken out of text.
11:46:07 I don't want this to be, look what he said now.
11:46:10 Now what's wrong with America?
11:46:11 It's not Tampa, Florida.
11:46:15 There's three little words.
11:46:16 Lack of parenting.
11:46:17 You see, when a child is young, they learn things to see
11:46:24 what they see and what they do.
11:46:26 And it's not about socioeconomics, it's not about race,
11:46:29 color or creed.
11:46:30 It's how they are raised.
11:46:32 I can't be a parent to everybody.
11:46:34 I had a hard time with my own three.
11:46:36 So thank God they turned out all right.
11:46:40 With love and determination on their mother's side.
11:46:43 She did most of the raising.
11:46:45 But it's very easy to say, let's do this.
11:46:47 But how do you do it?
11:46:49 How do you solve that problem?
11:46:53 Whether young boy or girl, young men and women, see these
11:46:56 things at age two, three and four, we can't solve at age 16,
11:47:01 18, 22, 30.
11:47:03 It's too late.
11:47:05 That's why I really believe in recreation, I really believe
11:47:09 in helping the young, because their future is set by their
11:47:12 parents on how they guide them through that.
11:47:15 They want to blame the schoolteachers for everything.
11:47:18 Maybe they are entitled to do that to some degree, but the
11:47:22 schoolteachers don't have the kids 24 hours a day.
11:47:25 They only have them for a period when they are in school.
11:47:28 Aside from that, it's up to those parents to raise their
11:47:31 And there's where the problem lies, in my judgment.
11:47:35 And it has nothing to do with -- it has to do with society
11:47:41 and what's happening with this country.
11:47:43 It's deteriorating from within, not from without.
11:47:47 And I'll leave it at that.
11:47:49 Yes, ma'am.
11:47:52 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I have a motion.
11:47:52 I'm sorry.
11:47:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think it's my responsibility as
11:48:00 chairman to allow her to speak.
11:48:01 She might want to allow something to yours.
11:48:04 I really don't know.
11:48:06 Mrs. Mulhern.
11:48:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
11:48:08 I think we have a problem with enforcement because we have a
11:48:11 problem with money, because we don't have -- we can't have
11:48:17 people everywhere.
11:48:17 So part of our problem -- I'm not saying that that is a
11:48:22 reason why any of these specifics of wet zoning may not be
11:48:28 enforced that might or might not affect what's going on in
11:48:33 establishments that are allowed to sell you liquor and be
11:48:37 opened till 3a.m.
11:48:38 in a society where guns are prevalent.
11:48:40 But part of the problem with improving enforcement is where
11:48:45 do we have the money to do that?
11:48:50 But secondly, I would like to say, now, where we direct
11:48:56 council is we vote on those wet zonings, and I take every
11:49:00 one of them seriously, and every single time you allow
11:49:04 someone else to sell alcohol to keep their hours later, to
11:49:07 give them those rights, you open up possibilities for
11:49:13 possibly more abuse of that, drunk driving, whatever the
11:49:18 consequences of, you know, if we hear from our police force
11:49:24 all the time, nothing good happens after 3 a.m., especially
11:49:28 when clubs are closing.
11:49:29 So that's our responsibility here.
11:49:31 I will second your motion.
11:49:32 I'm happy to hear, have a workshop on this.
11:49:36 But I just want to remind council that what we can do and
11:49:39 what we do is we vote on those wet zonings and we need to
11:49:42 liens to the movers whenever we do it, and most of the
11:49:47 problems predate all of us, even Councilman Chairman
11:49:51 Miranda, I think a lot of the wet zonings that were approved
11:49:54 by this council happened back then.
11:49:56 But we just have to continue to take that very seriously
11:50:00 every time someone asks for one as we can see because of the
11:50:04 violence that is happening will but I second your motion,
11:50:07 whatever date you want to do that.
11:50:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Before I go back to Mrs. Capin, any
11:50:11 further discussion by any other council members?
11:50:13 Mrs. Capin, tough floor.
11:50:16 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
11:50:16 I am not referring to children and how they are raised.
11:50:18 I'm referring to adults that come before us and ask for
11:50:21 permits for alcoholic beverage.
11:50:23 And conditions that are set on those privileges.
11:50:28 That's what I'm referring to.
11:50:29 The other thing is, Councilwoman Mulhern brought up that we
11:50:34 approve these alcoholic, as of April of this year, we are
11:50:44 not approving all the alcoholic beverage permits.
11:50:46 And that's one of the things that I would like a staff
11:50:48 report on.
11:50:48 But I'll make that a different motion each.
11:50:52 Rate now, again, we are, I will try to address, and when we
11:50:57 talk about the two times I brought it up, and how, I want
11:51:05 pages here of us discussing this and having staff come
11:51:07 before us, and telling us the process and the laws.
11:51:10 I am very aware of the laws.
11:51:14 That being said, I would like to go ahead and move forward
11:51:18 the motion and I will ask for the motion also.
11:51:21 >> All right.
11:51:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I am also going to make a motion at
11:51:27 the end.
11:51:27 I want to see how everybody voted the last two years.
11:51:30 I've seen things here that are "R," they violate the "R,"
11:51:34 went from 40 to 60, they went from -- we changed that years
11:51:38 Then it went 51-49.
11:51:41 And then they can't meet that.
11:51:42 So what happens?
11:51:43 They come in, we give them the right to do whatever they
11:51:45 want without even selling a morsel of rice. So if we are
11:51:52 going to offer the blame, we better take some of the blame
11:51:55 with us.
11:51:56 Before I take the vote, Mrs. Montelione.
11:51:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
11:52:01 I'm really conflicted on this, because it's the saying, guns
11:52:08 don't kill people, people do.
11:52:13 And alcohol is something that I think is a personal
11:52:19 The idea that we want to have a city that is a 24-hour city,
11:52:27 we are talking about Councilwoman Capin talks a lot about
11:52:30 the 24-hour city and we talk a lot about the cultural arts
11:52:33 and talk about the special events and the things that happen
11:52:41 I don't see anything wrong with an establishment that is,
11:52:44 you know, wine and beer, somebody is working at 2:00, 3:00
11:52:47 in the morning and they want to out and get a hamburger,
11:52:52 Internet based, web-based businesses.
11:52:55 They are working 24-7.
11:52:56 They don't necessarily work the same six to seven to eight
11:52:59 hours that other people do.
11:53:01 So, you know, if we are looking at having a global city, I'm
11:53:06 not sure that the alcoholic beverage permitting process is
11:53:14 the problem, or the issue.
11:53:17 I think that we do, as Councilwoman Mulhern said, have to
11:53:21 look at every single application that comes before us and
11:53:25 consider it on its own merits, what tape of application it
11:53:28 is, where it's located, who is business is being established
11:53:36 for, the target audience, but our vocational criteria and
11:53:39 that sort of thing.
11:53:40 But, now, to demonize alcohol and to consider that it's the
11:53:47 alcohol that's the problem, I can't agree with.
11:53:51 I mean, business owners have a right to sell alcohol in
11:53:56 their establishment if they are a restaurant, or if they are
11:54:00 catering to a certain, you know, area or segment of the
11:54:05 So I think that we do already have the powers to make those
11:54:09 decisions, as Councilwoman Mulhern pointed out, as Chairman
11:54:14 Miranda pointed out, every time an application comes before
11:54:17 And I think that what Councilman Reddick is asking for, guns
11:54:27 are the problem. It's not necessarily the alcohol that I
11:54:30 feel is the problem.
11:54:31 It's the ability to carry guns and go into a club, and then
11:54:34 you add alcohol to it, and you add, you know, some personal
11:54:40 grievances that may spill over, then you have a problem.
11:54:45 But I don't think that it's necessarily the sale of alcohol
11:54:50 is the issue.
11:54:51 I think guns going into clubs and being carried by children,
11:54:57 orthos who act like children -- they may be adults but they
11:55:01 act like children -- is the problem.
11:55:02 And I don't want to go back to prohibition where you can
11:55:05 outlaw alcohol and you can make it as restrictive as
11:55:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen.
11:55:12 >>HARRY COHEN: One of the reasons that I made the amendment
11:55:16 to Mr. Reddick's original motion that I did was because it
11:55:22 seems to me that a large part of the problem, not the only
11:55:25 problem, but part of the problem is the intermingling of
11:55:30 underage people, and people that are consuming alcohol.
11:55:36 You add to that the plethora of guns in our society, and the
11:55:40 lack of parental controls, and you put all these things
11:55:46 together, and you end up with the types of problems that we
11:55:50 have been seeing.
11:55:51 I'm going to support the workshop because I think that by
11:55:59 airing some of these issues in a setting where we have a
11:56:01 chance to discuss them, we may be able to separate out what
11:56:06 we can and can't do to try to positively influence the
11:56:10 It may be taking a look at, again, at our alcohol permitting
11:56:14 process, but it also may be taking a look at other things
11:56:18 like Chairman Miranda mentioned, the balance of food and
11:56:21 alcohol being served.
11:56:23 I spoke earlier about allowing people under the age of 21 to
11:56:28 mingle with people over 21 that are consuming alcohol.
11:56:33 We need to air all these things out in one conversation.
11:56:37 So I'm going to support the motion.
11:56:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any further discussion by council members
11:56:42 who have not spoken?
11:56:43 Ms. Capin.
11:56:45 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay, in reference to alcohol being
11:56:47 demonized, absolutely not.
11:56:50 What I am referring to is the permitting process.
11:56:53 And enforcing the conditions that people in establishments
11:57:01 come before us and agree to.
11:57:02 That is what I am referencing.
11:57:05 And my motion previously before this council did address the
11:57:12 finances in order to have that in place.
11:57:15 Now, this is not a zoning issue, this is alcoholic
11:57:20 permitting issue, and compliance.
11:57:23 The other things that I want to bring up -- well, I am going
11:57:32 make that a different motion.
11:57:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: On your motion, the second by Ms.
11:57:43 >>YVONNE CAPIN: The motion is for -- I am going ask for a
11:57:45 special called workshop on this because I would like to get
11:57:48 it on as soon as possible.
11:57:50 Can we do that or do we need to go for January?
11:57:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have to look at the calendars.
11:57:57 >> December 8th is our next CRA meeting.
11:58:03 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I'll be ready then.
11:58:04 >>FRANK REDDICK: Boy, oh, boy.
11:58:09 >>MARY MULHERN: I really do not want to add -- add special
11:58:19 called for a workshop, because I think it's going to end up
11:58:21 taking, now, it's going to start a long process anyway.
11:58:25 So to do it a as a special call is probably at this season
11:58:32 not going to speed it up that much.
11:58:33 I would rather put it on a regular next -- that's just my
11:58:40 feeling about it.
11:58:42 If other people want to do the special called, we are going
11:58:45 to end up with every one of these meetings turns into more
11:58:47 than what it's scheduled to be.
11:58:49 >> There's nothing on the September 23rd workshop.
11:58:58 >>YVONNE CAPIN: A workshop January 22nd?
11:59:01 January 26th.
11:59:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is that all right for January 26th?
11:59:09 >> (off microphone).
11:59:15 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I can make my motion and vote it up or down.
11:59:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It's your motion.
11:59:19 It's your pleasure.
11:59:23 I need a time and a date.
11:59:24 >> The 26th at 10:30.
11:59:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That motion goes with a time of 10:30 on
11:59:39 January 26, the year of 2012.
11:59:43 Any further discussion by council members?
11:59:49 All in favor of that motion, please indicate by saying aye.
11:59:52 Opposed, nay.
11:59:53 Motion passes unanimously.
11:59:55 Next, Ms. Capin?
11:59:57 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
11:59:57 I would like a staff report from zoning administrator.
12:00:05 Since we have had six months of the administration,
12:00:09 administrative alcoholic beverage permitting, I would like
12:00:12 to have a number on how many have been permitted, the
12:00:17 location, the type of permit, separation of distance, and
12:00:21 hour of operations that have been granted in the last six
12:00:26 months so that we can look at.
12:00:27 Because, again, this was something that was passed by a
12:00:31 previous council, and the three members that are here did
12:00:34 not vote for this part nor to be administratively done, and
12:00:39 the new council members have never had a chance.
12:00:42 So I think a review of what has happened in the last six
12:00:46 months would be helpful.
12:00:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: My guess would be it would be helpful to
12:00:51 have it the same date and same hour.
12:00:54 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes, sir.
12:00:54 >> Second.
12:00:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Tiff date and time and hour and year.
12:00:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, that's the workshop, the previous
12:01:05 motion is the workshop and this is a staff report.
12:01:10 If you just want to the be part of the workshop.
12:01:13 Or if you want a staff report.
12:01:18 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes, in December.
12:01:22 I would like to hear it as soon as possible.
12:01:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right, that changes.
12:01:25 Please give me the time and the date for the record.
12:01:27 >> December 1st, thank you, at staff reports at 10:00.
12:01:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That motion goes with December 1st at
12:01:43 staff reports at 10:00.
12:01:47 Any discussion by council members?
12:01:48 All in favor?
12:01:50 The Ayes have it unanimously.
12:01:51 Anything else, Ms. Capin?
12:01:54 >>YVONNE CAPIN: New business, nothing else here.
12:02:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Mulhern.
12:02:02 >> I have the six members for the council's approval for the
12:02:10 economic development cultural advisory committee.
12:02:18 I'll read the names, and then it needs to be approved.
12:02:22 Major general David Scott.
12:02:24 Sam Shaw.
12:02:25 Art Keeble.
12:02:28 Steven Vincent.
12:02:31 John green.
12:02:31 And Gus Parrish.
12:02:34 >> Do you want to take them individually or see if it passes
12:02:38 as a whole?
12:02:39 We'll see if it passes, motion by Mrs. Capin, second by Mr.
12:02:43 All in favor?
12:02:45 The Ayes have it unanimously.
12:02:48 Mr. Suarez.
12:02:48 >> I was going to mention, talk about something that's right
12:02:52 about our country and what's going on.
12:02:55 Tomorrow is going to be veterans day.
12:02:56 Please make sure that those people that served, whether in
12:03:00 wartime or not, make sure that you remember those people
12:03:03 that have served and have given their last breath for their
12:03:10 country and remember those people that are currently serving
12:03:14 in different parts across the world in texting our country.
12:03:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me just say that we'll pass the gavel
12:03:22 to Mrs. Mulhern, that this Saturday is free.
12:03:26 Believe that Ms. Ms. Capin brought it up last week in West
12:03:30 Tampa, and you will have food, drinks, and you have to buy
12:03:33 those tickets.
12:03:33 The admission is free and all the proceeds go to benefit
12:03:36 those good causes, Judeo Christian health clinic.
12:03:40 That's this Saturday.
12:03:41 Also this Saturday at 1:15, the 54 Biscayne -- they will be
12:03:53 traveling to Cuba, reenact a game that was played 57 years
12:03:57 So they will be back, and come in and tell us if they won or
12:04:01 lost, but it's a lot more about not just playing the game
12:04:05 but winning or losing so congratulations to them.
12:04:08 They made it.
12:04:09 They lost three starting outfielders and two starting
12:04:13 pitchers, and ended up with me.
12:04:16 So they are prepared to represent themselves in a
12:04:21 reenactment of something that happened 57 years ago.
12:04:24 So, anyway, any further discussion?
12:04:26 Any other new business to come before the council?
12:04:28 Anything else in the audience, all the seats that are full?
12:04:32 >> Move to receive and file.
12:04:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion to receive by Mr.
12:04:35 Reddick, second bid Mr. Suarez on a close vote with Mr.
12:04:40 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
12:04:43 The Ayes have it unanimously.
12:04:45 Stand adjourned.
12:09:10 (City Council meeting adjourned)
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