TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, May 17, 2012
This file represents an unedited version of realtime
captioning which should neither be relied upon for complete
accuracy nor used as a verbatim transcript.
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of third
party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.
09:05:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: City Council is called to order.
09:05:59 Chair yields to Mr. Harry Cohen.
09:06:02 >> Good morning.
09:06:03 I would like to welcome Jim Crew, the city's public records
09:06:12 He has been with the City of Tampa for the past 17 years,
09:06:15 eleven with TPD and the last six in the city clerk's office.
09:06:18 He is also a member of the u.S. Air Force retired reserve,
09:06:22 23 years of active and reserve service.
09:06:24 >> JIM CREW: Let us pray. Heavenly father, we come before
09:06:34 you with grace this morning and thank you again for your
09:06:37 many and awesome blessings to us all.
09:06:39 We thank you for the many freedoms we enjoy in this great
09:06:42 nation, the freedom to meet and discuss matters of
09:06:45 importance to us all, the freedom to speak our minds freely,
09:06:48 the freedom to publicly acknowledge you and seek your aid.
09:06:53 And though we are free, these freedoms come at a cost.
09:06:57 We are grateful for the many who have given their all and
09:06:59 those who are willing to do so daily to preserve and protect
09:07:02 those freedoms.
09:07:04 We pray your special blessing on all who still serve in its
09:07:07 defense, our military, law enforcement, firefighters, and
09:07:11 others who willingly serve at great personal risk.
09:07:14 We ask your blessing and guidance upon these your servants
09:07:17 in every matter they consider this day.
09:07:20 Let justice and mercy meet in every decision they must make
09:07:26 as you grant them your wisdom and grace. We give you all
09:07:29 glory and honor and all things, and I ask these things in
09:07:33 the name of Jesus whom I call Lord.
09:07:36 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:07:47 >> Roll call.
09:07:58 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
09:08:05 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
09:08:09 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
09:08:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:08:11 I need approval of the minutes.
09:08:14 >> So moved.
09:08:17 >> Second.
09:08:18 >> The ayes have it unanimously.
09:08:21 I need approval of the agenda and the addendum.
09:08:24 >> So moved.
09:08:25 >> Second.
09:08:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mr. Suarez, second by Mr.
09:08:28 Further discussion by council members?
09:08:29 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
09:08:32 Opposed nay.
09:08:33 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:08:35 A request from the public for consideration of any
09:08:37 legislative matters that happened at the prior meeting.
09:08:40 I see no one getting up.
09:08:48 We have committee reports and I am going to go to committee
09:08:52 If I last longer than necessary, we'll do the agenda.
09:08:57 I know 51 -- yes, sir, Mr. Counselor?
09:09:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, Mr. Chairman.
09:09:02 I understand you considering going into committee reports
09:09:05 but I want to know whether you wish to take up public
09:09:08 comments before.
09:09:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, we will.
09:09:15 Consideration has been done.
09:09:16 Public comments.
09:09:17 I know there's some interest, I would assume, on item 51,
09:09:22 and that is the second reading of a proposed ordinance: So
09:09:25 those second readings where the public speaks on those items
09:09:29 51 and 52, and they are not quasi-judicial, both on 51 and
09:09:37 So if you are here for those items, you are certainly
09:09:39 entitled to speak when they come up, and they will come up
09:09:42 at 9:30, I guarantee you that, I hope.
09:09:48 Anyone in the public care to speak to any item on the agenda
09:09:50 other than those items that are held for public hearing?
09:09:53 Those items that are public hearing will beheld heard at
09:09:59 Tell me the number and the item you would like to speak on.
09:10:02 Yes, sir.
09:10:02 >> This is item 1.
09:10:24 You are going to be approving a fuel cost thing.
09:10:30 It might be good to know what that is to assign somebody to
09:10:33 do graphs of the increase of this, because electrifying
09:10:44 is -- when the petroleum runs out that the right choice is
09:10:50 made and that methane is turned into electricity for the
09:10:56 vehicles rather than oil stains because there's a lot of oil
09:11:00 stains, but will keep increasing the carbon dioxide, and
09:11:04 years ago I dismissed that but it is a very real problem.
09:11:08 And if it starts to get this methane coming up, then we have
09:11:14 something serious.
09:11:15 Okay, there was another item.
09:11:19 I will be talking to 51 because I will be out of town.
09:11:22 I have to be out of town because I fit the ringleader
09:11:26 Okay, this is about roadway markings, 47, and that's
09:11:32 Well, there would be more money spent with if this mistake
09:11:40 is made about La Septima.
09:11:50 Save a little bit of the culture of Tampa.
09:11:54 There was actually a language here called Tampan and that
09:11:59 should actually be taught because it had -- Mr. Traficante
09:12:10 associates used because the police didn't know it.
09:12:14 Here is where the complaints about that are coming from.
09:12:16 In the Spanish-speaking world you have this extratorial in
09:12:25 Spain and they were like the secret police of the language,
09:12:27 and they come in and make issues of things like this.
09:12:30 And it reaches a climax when they told Mexicans they could
09:12:34 not be Mexicans, they had to be Mexico, something like that,
09:12:41 and they said, no, we are not going to do that.
09:12:45 So it's important --
09:12:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm sorry, I like your editorializing but
09:12:49 you went from $113,000 to Mexico.
09:12:53 I don't not where we are at.
09:12:54 >> The roadway markings and the fact they cost money, and to
09:12:58 change those signs will cost money, even to put a little
09:13:02 But I think an a pros over the instead of the P, because
09:13:06 that is part of Tampa's history.
09:13:08 And you use it "I'm."
09:13:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, La Septima is not on the agenda.
09:13:19 I am going to rule you out of order.
09:13:21 It's not on the agenda.
09:13:22 >> Okay.
09:13:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, sir.
09:13:24 Next, please.
09:13:25 >> If I speak now on 56 do I waive?
09:13:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You won't be allowed to speak on later
09:13:35 That's why I gave you the opportunity, sir.
09:13:39 I know you don't like me but that's --
09:13:46 Thank you.
09:13:46 >> Pete Johnson, Harrison street, speaking off the agenda.
09:13:49 There are two items I want to definitely bring to your
09:13:53 I understand that the diversion program for code is being
09:14:00 Allowing code to submit properties that need help.
09:14:07 The reason Joyce Stevens was put in charge of the diversion
09:14:12 was to separate the two departments so there would not be a
09:14:15 conflict of interest.
09:14:17 I think if we put the diversion programs back in the code,
09:14:22 it's going to create problems.
09:14:24 I'm sorry, but code has a hard time keeping records, keeping
09:14:27 track of things.
09:14:29 How are we going to know that these people are going to be
09:14:33 And unless City Council requires them to make monthly
09:14:38 Because they don't make reports on anything else.
09:14:41 The second item I want to speak to you about is please, if
09:14:44 you could ask legal what can we do about the repeat
09:14:49 violators that continuously repeats violating codes and
09:14:55 regulations within the city that block code and the
09:15:01 department and the hearings and everything else.
09:15:04 They constantly repeat, repeat, repeat.
09:15:07 It got to stop.
09:15:08 We are not getting anywhere.
09:15:09 Thank you.
09:15:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, sir.
09:15:12 If you want to speak on another item that's not set for
09:15:16 public hearing you are certainly entitled to on the agenda.
09:15:20 Do you have an item?
09:15:21 >> Does that waive my right?
09:15:31 I appreciate the point of clarity from the legal department.
09:15:34 In the reference to item 56, 56 deals with a report from Mr.
09:15:39 Snelling regarding the homeless initiative that went three,
09:15:46 four, five months with no report whatsoever.
09:15:49 I wanted to speak in favor of there finally being a report,
09:15:52 possibly the inclusion of a member of City Council on the
09:15:57 county commission's task force.
09:16:00 I met with county commissioner Murman along with a couple of
09:16:03 people from the streets who were homeless last week.
09:16:06 She indicated that she is going to communicate with your
09:16:10 council member Capin to see about possibly going ahead and
09:16:15 having someone from City Council sit on that.
09:16:18 She did mention that the mayor has been against it, but that
09:16:21 there were other members of staff on the task force.
09:16:25 At any rate, very glad to hear that you might be doing
09:16:28 something on this, and so the county and city sat motionless
09:16:33 for at least two years.
09:16:34 Thank you, sir.
09:16:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, sir.
09:16:36 We are going to go to committee reports, and hopefully by
09:16:41 that time we will be ready for the 9:30 agenda items that
09:16:44 are set.
09:16:45 We go to Public Safety Committee, items 1 through 5.
09:16:49 The chair is Mr. Frank Reddick.
09:16:51 >>FRANK REDDICK: I move items 1 through 5.
09:16:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to vote on number 4
09:17:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chair, would you kindly move items 1,
09:17:06 2, 3 and 5?
09:17:08 I have a motion by Mr. Reddick, seconded by Mr. Cohen, and
09:17:12 we'll hold number 4 temporarily.
09:17:13 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
09:17:16 Opposed nay.
09:17:16 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:17:18 Item number 4 is now on the floor.
09:17:20 Motion by Mr. Reddick.
09:17:22 I have a second on 4.
09:17:25 Second by Mr. Cohen.
09:17:26 Ms. Mulhern, you have the floor.
09:17:28 >>MARY MULHERN: I just thought that this was a very large
09:17:33 appropriation for gas masks, and it's kind of setting -- not
09:17:45 a great tone for our expectations of the convention, and I
09:17:51 wanted to pull that so I could vote against it.
09:17:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay, no problem.
09:17:56 I have a motion on the floor.
09:17:57 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
09:18:01 Opposed nay.
09:18:02 Motion passes 6 to 1.
09:18:06 Parks, Recreation, Culture Committee chair, 6 through 13.
09:18:10 Mary Mulhern.
09:18:11 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 6 through 13.
09:18:15 >>FRANK REDDICK: Second.
09:18:17 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Mr. Chair, I have to recuse Mace,
09:18:19 abstain from voting on item number 10 so if we could pull
09:18:24 that item.
09:18:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 10 is being held at the
09:18:27 request of Mrs. Montelione for possible abstention.
09:18:30 All in favor of the rest of the motion from items 6 through
09:18:35 13 with 10 being pulled, please signify by saying aye.
09:18:40 Opposed nay.
09:18:42 Motion passes unanimously.
09:18:44 Number 10.
09:18:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I believe council member
09:18:48 Montelione is going to be abstaining from item 10.
09:18:52 She has prepared the form and I will file it before the end
09:18:54 of today's meeting.
09:18:57 Mrs. Montelione, if you could please state the nature of the
09:19:00 >>LISA MONTELIONE: The contract for item number 10 with
09:19:05 Certus builders was awarded prior to my seeking election to
09:19:11 office and my fiancée's company was a subcontractor on that
09:19:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
09:19:21 >> Move item 10.
09:19:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seconded by Mrs. Capin.
09:19:25 All in favor of the motion on item number 10, please signify
09:19:27 by saying aye.
09:19:29 Opposed nay.
09:19:30 Motion passes with one abstention, 6 to nothing.
09:19:41 Public Works Committee, 14 through 19, Mr. Mike Suarez, the
09:19:47 You wanted to abstain also?
09:19:49 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Yes, sir.
09:19:49 I am going to abstain from items 14 and 15.
09:19:52 I am filing the forms A-B for that.
09:19:55 The nature of the abstention is the company, one of the
09:20:00 bidders in the business, is a client of mine, and I would
09:20:04 like to remove myself from both of those items.
09:20:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
09:20:13 You are the chair of the rest of that committee also.
09:20:15 >> Move items 16 through 19 then.
09:20:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mr. Suarez, second by Mr.
09:20:23 Reddick on 16 through 19.
09:20:25 All in favor of that motion?
09:20:28 The ayes have it unanimously. Would you like to move 14 and
09:20:32 I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione, seconded by Mr. Cohen.
09:20:36 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
09:20:39 Opposed nay.
09:20:40 Motion passes 6-0 with one abstention on 14 and 15.
09:20:49 Finance Committee, items 20 through 25, chair Harry Cohen.
09:20:54 >>HARRY COHEN: I move 20 through 25.
09:20:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mr. Cohen on 20 through 25.
09:20:59 Seconded by Mr. Reddick.
09:21:00 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
09:21:03 Opposed nay.
09:21:05 I'm sorry, Ms. Mulhern?
09:21:08 >>MARY MULHERN: Number 23?
09:21:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: My mistake, 23 is a resolution that's
09:21:17 been removed.
09:21:18 So 23 is not being voted on today.
09:21:23 All in favor of that motion on 20 through 25, with 23 being
09:21:27 removed, please signify by saying aye.
09:21:30 Opposed nay.
09:21:31 Motion passes unanimously.
09:21:33 Building and zoning committee, items 26 through 43.
09:21:39 Ms. Montelione.
09:21:39 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I move items 26 through 43.
09:21:46 >> Second.
09:21:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seconded by Mr. Cohen.
09:21:50 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
09:21:53 Opposed nay.
09:21:54 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:21:57 Transportation committee, Mrs. Yolie Capin.
09:21:59 Fanned I may, I want to off our deepest sympathy on your
09:22:03 uncle passing away, Manny Valdez.
09:22:06 I was privileged to grow up with him in Ybor City.
09:22:08 He was great friend of mine, a wonderful guy through his
09:22:12 life, and I know he was more than an uncle.
09:22:20 He was not only your neighbor growing up as a kid but he was
09:22:22 a wonderful, wonderful young man.
09:22:27 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
09:22:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I will hold that committee for a minute.
09:22:34 Hold the transportation committee.
09:22:36 Mr. Reddick will move transportation.
09:22:38 >>FRANK REDDICK: I move items 44 through 47.
09:22:42 >> Second.
09:22:43 >> Second by Mr. Cohen on that item.
09:22:46 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
09:22:49 Opposed nay.
09:22:50 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:22:52 We are going to set the public hearings on items 48 through
09:22:57 I need a motion to that effect.
09:23:00 Motion by Mr. Suarez.
09:23:01 I have a second by Mr. Reddick.
09:23:03 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
09:23:06 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:23:16 All right.
09:23:18 I know that we have second readings that start at 9:30.
09:23:21 And I need a motion from council to bring up what the
09:23:27 gentleman in the front seat, front row first seat brought
09:23:30 up, La Septima.
09:23:35 It was passed by CRA.
09:23:36 And I need a motion to put it up.
09:23:38 Am I correct, counselor?
09:23:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, the CRA did ask City Council to have
09:23:44 the administration do that.
09:23:45 Obviously you now serve as the City Council.
09:23:47 You have not taken action.
09:23:48 So if you wish to do so, a motion would be appropriate.
09:23:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I wish to do so, so we can get to the
09:23:53 9:30s on time.
09:23:54 >> Move those.
09:23:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Reddick to bring
09:23:59 that to City Council as a resolution from CRA to the
09:24:05 Just a motion.
09:24:06 That's all we need.
09:24:07 All right, Mr. Reddick made that motion.
09:24:09 Second by Mrs. Montelione.
09:24:11 And with that motion, I need a council member, if I may.
09:24:16 I think we can somewhat lower the expense of that.
09:24:20 We have an auction or sail.
09:24:25 I think you would be surprised what somebody will pay for
09:24:30 And if I am allowed to be a bidder, I will bid.
09:24:36 I don't know if I am legally allowed to bid.
09:24:37 So I need a motion.
09:24:41 Add that to the motion.
09:24:42 >> I will add that to the motion on the floor, sir.
09:24:44 >> A motion by Mr. Suarez.
09:24:46 Seconded by Mrs. Montelione on that motion.
09:24:49 On the whole mow motion.
09:24:51 Indicate by saying aye.
09:24:54 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:24:56 All right.
09:24:57 We are running better than a watch.
09:25:08 Right on time.
09:25:09 We have our 9:30 but it's now 9:25 so I have five minutes.
09:25:14 Yes, sir?
09:25:23 If the park director is here -- well, he was here and he
09:25:27 went to look at the parks, see if they have moved.
09:25:37 I'm sorry, I never met you, so your item on the agenda, you
09:25:43 were happy and you are leaving, but you are happy and you
09:25:45 are staying, I hope.
09:25:47 >> Good morning.
09:25:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I need your name.
09:25:53 >> My name is Greg fair.
09:26:00 Parks and recreation director.
09:26:02 I'm delighted to be here.
09:26:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What area do you come from?
09:26:06 >> I come from the city of Baltimore, four years of
09:26:08 experience in the field.
09:26:09 >> And I was just in your fine city two weeks ago.
09:26:13 Very nice.
09:26:14 >> Thank you, sir.
09:26:16 And it's beautiful here.
09:26:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any comments from the council?
09:26:22 Any park you want to the take?
09:26:26 >> Working through them.
09:26:29 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I can say that I went to the envision
09:26:32 presentation last night from AE com and there were a whole
09:26:38 bunch of ideas that fall into the parks and recreation realm
09:26:43 of public spaces.
09:26:47 That's what the talk and presentation consisted of, is the
09:26:51 public spaces, and there's some fabulous ideas of turning
09:26:54 areas that are currently unused.
09:26:57 Some of those don't belong to us yet.
09:27:00 For instance, the areas underneath the Lee Roy Selmon to
09:27:05 One of them was a mountain biking trail that was created
09:27:08 underneath the expressway, and I believe it was either
09:27:14 Seattle or Portland, but there were some fabulous ideas
09:27:18 presented last night.
09:27:31 >> They were incredibly creative.
09:27:33 And a lot larger.
09:27:36 So they are bringing a lot to the table.
09:27:37 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And I want all of those things.
09:27:43 So it would be great that you have worked with them before.
09:27:48 So I'm looking forward to great things from the Parks
09:27:50 >> I think we'll deliver.
09:27:52 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
09:27:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That means we are going to cut your
09:27:56 budget by 25%.
09:27:58 [ Laughter ]
09:27:58 >> I found the resources here to be one of the reasons I
09:28:08 came so I'm delighted.
09:28:10 >> Thank you very much.
09:28:12 And you have a great hospital up there in Johns Hopkins.
09:28:17 They told me I was going to live till I die.
09:28:19 They are wonderful people.
09:28:20 >> It's amazing.
09:28:22 Thank you, sir.
09:28:24 Thank you for coming.
09:28:29 It's not quite 9:30.
09:28:30 I have about two and a half minutes.
09:28:31 >> Dave Vaughan, director of contract administration, here
09:28:42 regarding item 54, which was a follow-up to our discussion
09:28:45 about the boilerplate, and also modification to the
09:28:51 ordinance extending the time to respond from three days to
09:28:58 I have met, I think, with all of you except Councilwoman
09:29:01 Capin, and provided you with a draft of a boilerplate and
09:29:05 where we are, and I'll provide that to your office as well,
09:29:10 This is a work in progress between legal and contract admin.
09:29:14 I appreciate much the help that we have been getting from
09:29:16 legal in this regard.
09:29:20 You have now a draft in front of you that shows you changes
09:29:23 that we are proposing.
09:29:25 They are drafts.
09:29:26 They are subject to change.
09:29:27 But as you look at them, if you have comments and questions,
09:29:30 we will be glad to get with you and have further
09:29:35 At your next regular council meeting, you should have the
09:29:39 ordinance amendments on the protest ordinance, and I believe
09:29:43 legal has provided you all with draft copies of that.
09:29:46 A couple of other quick items in follow-up to our previous
09:29:50 discussion, in March when I appeared before you, there was
09:29:54 discussion about the availability of documents that council
09:29:56 review prior to award.
09:29:59 And just to clarify a couple of things, and highlight at
09:30:02 least one change we made since that meeting, from the time
09:30:06 that a bid is advertised, if the bid advertisement, the
09:30:13 plans and the specs per on contract admin's web page and
09:30:18 they remain there throughout the entire project, so that
09:30:20 those are available to anyone.
09:30:22 You don't have to be a demand star user, you don't have to
09:30:25 have any special software, you can go get those.
09:30:29 When you get an agenda package you get background
09:30:33 information, you get award reso, the WMBE pages that show
09:30:38 participation, you also get the bid tab.
09:30:42 What we have been adding since our discussion in March is we
09:30:45 have been going ahead and adding the low bidders bid
09:30:48 submission in that package as well, so now between the
09:30:51 total, the whole document that's on the web and the package
09:30:54 that you had, you have what you are approving and will
09:31:00 become the executed document and be filed with the city
09:31:04 One significant cans of that information that you get that
09:31:08 relates to our previous discussion is in the DMI forms that
09:31:13 you get that show the utilized subcontractors, those are all
09:31:16 of the subcontractors that are to be used on the project,
09:31:19 whether they are certified minority or not, so from that,
09:31:25 there is the information about whether or not the general is
09:31:26 performing 51% of the work.
09:31:30 Since we had our discussion in March, and I expressed to you
09:31:34 that I thought that the majority of our projects met that
09:31:38 requirement, I spent some time checking, and well over 90%
09:31:42 of our projects exceed the 51%.
09:31:46 And in the cases where we have varied on that, they have
09:31:48 been projects that had lots of subcontract opportunities,
09:31:53 where it made sense for the work to be segmented the way
09:31:57 that was, and even in those cases the general still
09:32:01 achieving 40, 45%.
09:32:03 They also had a project where one subcontract item was a
09:32:08 specialty item that exceeded 50% of the value of the bid to
09:32:11 start with.
09:32:12 But still needed a general contractor.
09:32:17 Again just sort of to reinforce the discussion that we had,
09:32:19 this is an item that has not been an issue that has worked,
09:32:23 and both the minority business office and the legal office
09:32:27 in contract admin are interested in maintaining that kind of
09:32:32 The last item, we had discussions from time to time about
09:32:40 change orders.
09:32:42 And certainly every change order is of concern and needs to
09:32:45 be looked at and validated and be applicable to the project.
09:32:50 But we have done -- I have done a review of the projects
09:32:52 that we have closed out.
09:32:54 I'll be 30 seconds.
09:32:56 I have looked at the projects we closed out since this
09:32:59 council has been in session.
09:33:00 You guys have closed out contracts for $105 million worth of
09:33:05 The net difference from what we awarded to what you closed
09:33:09 out is less than one percent.
09:33:11 So again we need to look at individual change orders.
09:33:15 The program is working.
09:33:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's over a million dollars.
09:33:20 It sounds small when you put a one percent.
09:33:23 I'm not here to debate you, but don't give me numbers
09:33:26 because you come in second.
09:33:28 All right.
09:33:29 Let's go to the 9:30.
09:33:31 I am not going to -- this is set for a 10:00 time certain.
09:33:36 And I need a motion to open public hearings 51 and 52.
09:33:42 Motion by Mrs. Montelione and second on 51 and 52.
09:33:47 Seconded by Mr. Suarez.
09:33:48 All in favor of the motion on 51 and 52 signify by saying
09:33:53 Opposed nay.
09:33:54 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:33:58 They are going to bring that up, Mr. Vaughan, at 10:00.
09:34:02 That item comes back.
09:34:04 I'm just letting you know.
09:34:06 >>JIM SHIMBERG: City attorney.
09:34:07 I'm here on item 51, which is the temporary ordinance to be
09:34:18 put in place for the RNC, that the changes, recommended for
09:34:28 Harbor Island and this side of the gate as well as language
09:34:30 that allows the director of Parks Department to add other
09:34:35 parks that are outside the event zone, looking at possibly
09:34:39 four or five right now that we think would be appropriate to
09:34:42 be added but those are the only changes from what you saw
09:34:46 And that was per council's motion at the last meeting.
09:34:48 So we are here to answer any questions.
09:34:51 We have various members of our staff are asking for approval
09:34:53 of this ordinance for second reading.
09:34:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is a public hearing.
09:34:59 Anyone who wishes to speak on this item, line up to the
09:35:01 left, and we'll start from there.
09:35:08 Come right up, sir.
09:35:12 Give it to the attorney here, please.
09:35:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: One additional name.
09:35:19 I cannot make it out.
09:35:20 It starts with a G.
09:35:22 Could somebody please state their name?
09:35:24 >> (off microphone).
09:35:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: One extra minute, please.
09:35:31 >> Good mornings.
09:35:32 My name is Amos Miers, to talk about item 51, the RNC
09:35:40 The making of any law that a bridges the freedom of speech
09:35:43 or right to peaceably assemble.
09:35:45 I reject the entire ordinance based on this right alone,
09:35:50 also the prior notion spoken in chambers.
09:35:54 A right protected by the Constitution, a concept I swore to
09:35:58 defend from enemies foreign and domestic in the United
09:36:03 States Marine Corps.
09:36:05 The requirement in order to acquire the object in question
09:36:10 makes at privilege, not a right. With a right, one need not
09:36:14 ask permission.
09:36:15 Therefore no permit is necessary.
09:36:17 By designing an area in which to exercise my free speech,
09:36:21 and only in certain areas such takes public viewing area,
09:36:24 you are abridging my free speech.
09:36:27 Therefore it is a violation of my first amendment to the
09:36:31 By requiring permits to assemble on public property whether
09:36:35 a sidewalk or park you are abridging my right to peaceably
09:36:38 Therefore, you are violating my Constitutionally protected
09:36:44 I will not allow my rights to be taken as privileges.
09:36:47 My rights are absolute and nonnegotiable.
09:36:50 If I want to March down a sidewalk or any public park
09:36:53 whether by Mace or 500 of my closest friends, I need not ask
09:36:57 permission for this, nor will I ever.
09:37:01 The creation of a clean zone goes beyond infringing my first
09:37:05 amendment rights.
09:37:05 It goes on controlling my behavior and ways only found in
09:37:10 totalitarian forms of government, a police state, and it
09:37:13 will create the very problems you are looking to avoid.
09:37:16 There is not much in this ordinance, a concept that you and
09:37:20 I took an oath to defend.
09:37:22 If City Council passed this ordinance as it stands today,
09:37:25 delivered by the mayor of this city, the government of the
09:37:27 City of Tampa knowingly and systematically violates the
09:37:32 I will then call into question the legit Massey of this
09:37:34 local government and will be forced to take steps into our
09:37:38 democracy to remedy the situation.
09:37:41 I have an alternative solution.
09:37:43 In a letter to Mayor Buckhorn in which City Council was
09:37:45 copied I outlined a solution that celebrates our freedom and
09:37:47 our first amendment.
09:37:49 Instead of eradicating our freedom with a clean zone I
09:37:53 propose eliminating this item both in the form of event zone
09:37:55 and public viewing area and replace it with a free speech at
09:37:58 Curtis Hixon park where a stage withhold concerts as well as
09:38:02 where people can speak out to their audience regarding
09:38:04 issues that are important to them.
09:38:06 I sincerely request this solution be explored further.
09:38:13 A promoter with access to national and local bands.
09:38:16 I want to provide a solution to the city that celebrates
09:38:18 freedom, celebrates democracy, and celebrates Tampa.
09:38:23 In a free society we should foster good behavior, not
09:38:27 control it.
09:38:27 I like to see freedom celebrated instead of a battlefield
09:38:30 outlined in the current ordinance.
09:38:31 I would like to see some of the money being used in ways to
09:38:34 promote behavior.
09:38:36 Instead I would like to see ways -- excuse me.
09:38:39 I would like to see some of the money being used in ways to
09:38:42 promote behavior instead of ways to control people which
09:38:48 does not work anyway.
09:38:49 We are free people who will not be controlled.
09:38:52 We are free people who will look for ways to express
09:38:54 ourselves to evolve, to communicate, to make our world a
09:38:57 better place.
09:38:58 Help us foster that.
09:39:00 City officials continue to say they support the first
09:39:03 That they do.
09:39:04 The members of City Council broke down this ordinance in its
09:39:10 Let's celebrate our freedom.
09:39:11 Let's embrace this political event.
09:39:15 Thank you.
09:39:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, sir.
09:39:16 Next, please.
09:39:19 >> Mike Fenegar, in Tampa, and I am the president of the
09:39:27 ACLU of Florida.
09:39:28 I want to thank the council for the opportunity to appear
09:39:31 here once again on the event zone ordinance.
09:39:33 I actually agree with much of the previous speaker.
09:39:37 The courts always held there is not an absolute right to
09:39:40 free speech and it can be limited.
09:39:41 The question is how should it be limited?
09:39:44 In late August, you and the citizens of Tampa will be
09:39:47 privileged to witness first hand one of the great unique
09:39:49 celebrations of our Constitution, the nomination of a
09:39:53 president and the element of groups who wish to oppose that
09:39:57 nomination and the policies of that party.
09:40:01 These visitors are all going to gather in our city.
09:40:04 The ordinance before you today estimates that there will be
09:40:06 10 billion media impressions of Tampa.
09:40:11 The ordinance and implementation will have a significant
09:40:13 impact on how the world views our city.
09:40:16 We don't wish to recreate the violent images that lingered
09:40:20 for years after at the at previous conventions.
09:40:24 This is a significant improvement over the first draft and I
09:40:26 want to thank the city attorney and council members who met
09:40:28 with us from listening to our concerns.
09:40:31 That said, the draft addresses many of our concerns but not
09:40:34 nearly all of them.
09:40:36 It is still flawed but I have no doubt you will pass it
09:40:39 The most significant problem of your ordinance is the
09:40:42 bureaucratic and procedural attempt to address what will be
09:40:45 organic events, spontaneously evolve, that neither the city
09:40:50 nor the demonstrators anticipate.
09:40:52 The ordinance encourages you to view these events, and the
09:40:57 reality is quite different.
09:40:59 The success will depend on the intelligence, the flexibility
09:41:02 and the judgment of the officials who implement provisions.
09:41:06 Unfortunately many of the demonstrators doubt your
09:41:10 Their personal experience and mistrust is reflected in their
09:41:14 If you pass this ordinance, we recommend the City Council
09:41:19 and city officials augment steps and change the psychology.
09:41:25 Why not establish the host committee to demonstrators?
09:41:29 Why not have city leaders visit these groups when they come
09:41:32 to town to welcome them?
09:41:35 Assign a city liaison to help the groups identify and
09:41:38 resolved problems before misunderstandings arise.
09:41:41 Providing water and shade to demonstrators along parade
09:41:45 Ensure that every law enforcement officer understands that
09:41:48 demonstrators are not enemies, that they have a right to be
09:41:51 there, and to smile, be friendly and welcoming, to be
09:41:55 flexible in enforcing the regulation and not be adherent to
09:42:00 it. In implementing the public viewing area, avoid creating
09:42:02 cages where demonstrators are penned up.
09:42:05 And finally distinguish between the people who come to Tampa
09:42:09 to confront authority and act violently from the thousands
09:42:12 who come to act peacefully and who are committed to maybe
09:42:15 acting illegally and acts of civil disobedience which has
09:42:20 long been celebrated in this country.
09:42:21 Finally, between now and the convention, the ACLU will be
09:42:25 conducting Webinars and town meetings to provide information
09:42:29 to groups and individuals who want to demonstrate.
09:42:31 We invite and encourage --
09:42:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, sir.
09:42:34 >> Welcome the visitors and encourage a positive dialogue.
09:42:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:42:38 Next, please.
09:42:39 >> Tom Atchison, pastor, New Life Church, emergency shelter,
09:42:49 and drug and alcohol addiction center.
09:42:51 The homeless issue has come to the forefront here before
09:42:55 this council many times, and I appreciate the fact that the
09:42:59 council has been working very well and been attendant to the
09:43:04 matters and the problems with the situations of
09:43:06 homelessness, especially now with the convention coming up.
09:43:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Excuse me, stop the clock.
09:43:12 We are talking about 51 about the RNC ordinance.
09:43:16 I don't know if that's incorporated with this or not.
09:43:19 >> Well, it will be.
09:43:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, you have to speak to the ordinance
09:43:23 that we have in front of us.
09:43:24 >> I will.
09:43:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's what we are talking about now,
09:43:27 >> Okay.
09:43:30 But with the homeless issue, well, really what I have to
09:43:35 talk about does not have that much to do with the ordinance
09:43:39 so I will just pass.
09:43:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We can speak on that right after we
09:43:42 finish with this meeting.
09:43:45 You are certainly entitled to speak on 51 if you wish.
09:43:48 It's about the Republican national convention.
09:43:50 >> I will leave it.
09:43:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:43:54 Next, please.
09:43:55 >> Mark Klutho, 14496 120th Avenue North, Largo.
09:44:03 Maybe you can't read the fine print on my shirt.
09:44:08 Some restrictions apply, void where prohibited, after "land
09:44:17 of the free" and as the first speaker said, these
09:44:23 restrictions under the first amendment.
09:44:29 It's absurd how they come about.
09:44:37 And it's a shame that the lawyer for the ACLU is talking
09:44:42 about how the courts can do their idiotic manipulations of
09:44:51 the Constitution, and you will fall lock step into that
09:45:12 I, too took the oath and put my life on the line living in a
09:45:18 hole in the jungle, and it allows you to have that right to
09:45:31 But this idea that you have to be in a zone to be able to
09:45:38 speak is completely absurd.
09:45:43 It's much like this letter in the paper.
09:45:51 The word is juxtaposition.
09:45:53 Dire predictions about climate change and the individual is
09:46:00 saying, well, yeah, all the scientists.
09:46:06 They could be wrong.
09:46:07 And he goes back to the 15th century, and he says
09:46:15 European scientists in the 15th century agree that the
09:46:18 earth was the center of the universe.
09:46:23 That didn't make it true.
09:46:26 When, in fact, it wasn't the scientists in the 15th
09:46:29 century, it was the church.
09:46:32 (Bell sounds)
09:46:33 And so why is the attorney here, the colonel, saying the
09:46:42 courts have agreed the zone, something okay, doesn't make it
09:46:54 And you people are making this a totalitarian regime here,
09:47:03 and it's not where I believe we should be.
09:47:06 (Bell sounds).
09:47:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, sir.
09:47:08 Next, please.
09:47:09 >> Good morning.
09:47:13 My name is Samantha Bowden, 15109 Arborwood circle.
09:47:21 The first speaker and the president of the ACLU spoke to a
09:47:23 lot of issues that I have with the ordinance as far as
09:47:26 limiting first amendment, but for myself, I'm a geography
09:47:31 student so public space and access to it is of great concern
09:47:35 to me.
09:47:36 We no longer have public space in our country and the occupy
09:47:39 movement trying to fight for space on sidewalks to be shoved
09:47:44 off by motorcycles, helicopters, and president Fernandez's
09:47:54 special operations task force, it sucks, and now when we
09:47:55 have a national convention which is a traditional forum for
09:47:59 protesting and engaging, we now have fencing that we have to
09:48:04 say we have 4,000 officers we have, we have appropriations
09:48:08 to the tune of $250 million we have to have to establish
09:48:14 martial law in the city.
09:48:15 It isn't right.
09:48:18 And it's really sad that only one person up there seems to
09:48:21 do anything about it.
09:48:21 I don't know how you can claim to value your freedom, and to
09:48:26 defend people's rights to go and come to their national
09:48:31 forum and to engage in what they see to be, you know, an
09:48:37 agenda that they don't agree with, and a nominee they don't
09:48:40 agree with, and then they can potentially be locked up, they
09:48:43 can be fined, they can be brutalized, and I'm sure something
09:48:49 will go down because when you pen people in, and you don't
09:48:52 give them the chance to get the proper permitting, if they
09:48:56 don't win a lottery, they would be locked up.
09:48:59 I'm taking my 18-year-old sister who is going to vote force
09:49:02 first time to come and get to know democracy.
09:49:05 She and her friends who have a Christian Coalition at their
09:49:10 school want to hold the Republicans responsible for the
09:49:12 Christian mandate of the party they seem to value.
09:49:15 You have to worry that they are going to get locked up if we
09:49:17 don't get our permits unless they are in the lottery
09:49:22 I would really like to know how they intend to make sure
09:49:24 that every person is permitted.
09:49:26 Otherwise, they could simply be arrested for marching, for
09:49:29 walking in the wrong part, being that person that pushes a
09:49:34 member overboard.
09:49:35 It's not coherent, it's not complete, and you should vote it
09:49:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:49:40 Next, please.
09:49:41 >> Donny rode, 412 Madison street.
09:49:47 Good morning, council.
09:49:49 As you are not willing, it appears, to insist on a better
09:49:53 conceived ordinance that would require a complete rewrite of
09:49:56 the one that's before you now, I would just like to comment
09:50:01 that this ordinance that's present towed rather late, one of
09:50:05 your members, Mr. Reddick, said he got it at more or less
09:50:08 the eleventh hour on an off week from council, and it should
09:50:11 be pointed out to you that the city of Charlotte finished
09:50:16 most of its legislative work on its convention this summer
09:50:19 as early as January, and yet this thing didn't make to the
09:50:24 you until much later in the process.
09:50:28 You have to also remember that the mayor of the City of
09:50:30 Tampa acted as though he did not realize that this is a gun
09:50:35 permit, carry, conceal and stand-your-ground state when he
09:50:40 failed to approach his legislative delegation and ask for a
09:50:44 special bill that would have created a safe area for
09:50:49 non-gun-toting protestors at the epicenter of protest and
09:50:53 parade associated with this convention.
09:50:54 You are almost in lock step behind that mayor ever since.
09:51:00 Most of you attended his state of the city address that cost
09:51:06 the city thousands of dollars to host that was attended by
09:51:09 nearly no one but sewer department employees, cops, and you,
09:51:14 where he attempted in taking boiling sun to melt down a
09:51:20 bunch of middle school kids, and churn them into butter and
09:51:23 take it to Pancake House and create a bunch of high tech
09:51:26 jobs because he did nothing else that day that mattered to
09:51:29 anybody who wasn't directly working for the government.
09:51:33 I'm asking that one of you, when this thing comes to that
09:51:36 point in your meeting, to have the parliamentary presence to
09:51:39 make a motion to amend it in at least one of three areas
09:51:43 that could make this long, confusing ordinance much, much
09:51:49 One, in reference to free speech and assembly, your current
09:51:53 code sections 1441, 22.8, deal with assembles on sidewalks
09:51:59 and the placing of private property, private personal items,
09:52:04 on public property.
09:52:06 If you could do something about that, I suggested language
09:52:09 to you in the past that was printed, bound and forwarded to
09:52:13 every single one of you, the chief of police, the mayor, and
09:52:16 every one of you.
09:52:17 And in reference to that, also, some type of provision for
09:52:21 camping, overnighting, sleeping, for protestors and others
09:52:26 that come and visit, can't afford or can't accommodate hotel
09:52:29 rooms on either public property, or on private property, if
09:52:34 the private property owner is willing to do so.
09:52:37 Please remember that a lot of these rights that you seem to
09:52:42 discount, think very little of, people were murdered
09:52:44 establishing these rights, in the civil rights movement of
09:52:48 (Bell sounds)
09:52:49 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:52:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, sir.
09:52:52 Next, please.
09:52:53 >> T speaker before me brought out that time in public
09:52:59 hearings was separate from the other.
09:53:03 I had some misinformation on that previously.
09:53:04 So appreciation for that.
09:53:07 >> Your name for the record and address, sir.
09:53:09 >> My name is Ed Tillou, 8100 block north ninth street.
09:53:18 Okay, I want to reinforce what some of the earlier speakers
09:53:22 said because it was said very well.
09:53:24 The first writer writes it should be nonnegotiable.
09:53:29 Actually there was a principle of law, the safety of the
09:53:33 people is the supreme law.
09:53:34 So Constitutions set up supreme courts, and that's where a
09:53:42 lot of this comes down to now.
09:53:43 We have our historic precedence involved with this.
09:53:48 To draw on that historic precedence, the second speaker made
09:53:53 analogies that we might have a communication problem here,
09:53:57 and that was very well spelled out in Cool Hand Luke.
09:54:01 What we have here is a failure to communicate.
09:54:09 An engineering course -- I am taking a history course
09:54:12 again -- and so getting back to history, what happened was
09:54:19 that Louis 15th did something that was right but he
09:54:27 failed to communicate that to the French people.
09:54:29 He removed from the equation and therefore was able to
09:54:34 overwhelm France in the seven years war, was a pivot point
09:54:38 on which the world followed since.
09:54:40 And France lost that war.
09:54:44 Well, Louis 16th, his grandson, came in on the equation,
09:54:50 and he did something that we tend to believe is right.
09:54:53 He supported the United States.
09:54:55 Well, he paid a price for that.
09:54:58 And they took his head off.
09:55:01 And the United States was really nowhere to be seen saying,
09:55:06 please don't behead your former king because he helped us
09:55:13 Unfortunately you have to pay the taxes for that now.
09:55:15 But, anyway, there should be some recognition of that, I
09:55:19 But the point is, failure to communicate.
09:55:23 So communication is very important.
09:55:26 And I'll probably be out of town.
09:55:31 I will be relocated maybe temporarily on that.
09:55:33 But removing protestors to an out of the way place may be
09:55:40 necessitated by what this governor has done.
09:55:41 It sets the stage for strategy two, strong arm the press,
09:55:47 don't give any coverage on these people out of town, and
09:55:51 that can be done when you are rich and powerful and say
09:55:54 well, we'll just yank your advertising.
09:55:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, sir.
09:55:58 In, please.
09:56:00 >> I am Curt brought.
09:56:13 I am not a resident of Tampa but I am a visitor.
09:56:18 I guess you could say the current address would be the
09:56:21 Occupy Tampa camp.
09:56:24 I would just like to say that plain and simple, any
09:56:30 regulation that is put in place, there are almost no words I
09:56:38 can say to explain it without getting very angry.
09:56:44 But to say that to corral people and say that they can only
09:56:52 speak to first amendment rights in a certain zone,
09:57:02 especially under the guise of a political form is -- is just
09:57:19 a disgrace to what this country even started for.
09:57:22 This entire country in itself was a protest.
09:57:27 So, therefore, to try and -- you might not overtly show it
09:57:32 as a way to silence protests, but I came all the way here
09:57:38 from Orlando.
09:57:40 People from around the country are going to see it.
09:57:46 Before you make a vote on this issue, just be mindful of the
09:57:51 country you live in.
09:57:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, sir.
09:57:57 Next, please.
09:57:58 >> My name is --
09:58:10 Outside the city limits.
09:58:13 I agree with much of what's been said especially regarding
09:58:16 the bureaucratic process, how you are trying to place
09:58:19 restrictions on protests that are originally intended to be
09:58:25 smaller than 50 people but grow larger, then penalize the
09:58:32 But also, I think the major problem with this ordinance is
09:58:35 all the restrictions on what can be done in the events such
09:58:41 as the restriction -- any container filled with any liquid,
09:58:47 solid or gas, the restriction on tripods that are all over
09:59:00 this room right now.
09:59:04 All these objects that people use in their everyday life, is
09:59:09 a water bottle, a container filled with water, is that
09:59:14 banned? How are people supposed to drink when they are
09:59:17 coming to the RNC to participate in this event that our city
09:59:24 is putting on?
09:59:30 I think these regulations go too far in terms of what is
09:59:35 It's not reasonable.
09:59:39 It's not reasonable.
09:59:41 And restricting people from wearing masks if they want to
09:59:45 put on a Romney mask or put on other symbolic mask to act
09:59:53 out what's going on in our country, it has to be in the
09:59:58 public viewing area or get a parade permit to do it and do
10:00:03 it on the parade route.
10:00:07 It's just going too broad.
10:00:08 I think the purpose of this ordinance is to give the police
10:00:12 the power to arrest anyone they want at any time by
10:00:16 criminalizing everything.
10:00:19 Or criminalizing broad things.
10:00:25 Thank you for listening to me.
10:00:29 Think about this when you are voting.
10:00:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, sir.
10:00:32 Appreciate it.
10:00:32 All right.
10:00:33 That takes care of the public portion.
10:00:35 I see no one else lined up to speak.
10:00:38 Council, this is a substitute ordinance being presented for
10:00:42 second reading and adoption.
10:00:43 Who wants to move it?
10:00:45 Discussion we'll have after I got a first and second on it.
10:00:49 I have a motion by Mr. Reddick.
10:00:51 Seconded by Mr. Cohen on a close vote with Mr. Suarez.
10:00:54 Discussion by council members?
10:00:56 Ms. Capin.
10:00:58 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Mr. Shimberg, when you first spoke, will you
10:01:04 please repeat what you said so that everyone is very clear
10:01:07 on what the substitute ordinance is, and what you are
10:01:12 looking at for the fought, or possibly looking at?
10:01:23 >>JIM SHIMBERG: City attorney.
10:01:23 The changes at the last hearing were adding the portion of
10:01:27 Harbor Island up until the gate and to be included in the
10:01:30 event zone as well as allowing the department director,
10:01:33 which is the department director, to add parks outside the
10:01:38 event to the process.
10:01:40 And I would like to also clarify one thing.
10:01:43 There was some confusion in terms of some of the comments
10:01:45 that you heard.
10:01:47 You don't need a permit to be in Tampa that week and you
10:01:50 don't need a permit to exercise your first amendment rights.
10:01:53 You also don't need a permit to go to a park that might be
10:01:58 awarded to another group.
10:02:00 Those are nonexclusive permits.
10:02:03 And the only thing you can't do is disrupt their particular
10:02:07 event if they have it permitted for that day.
10:02:09 But other people would be free to go to those parks.
10:02:12 People are free to be on our sidewalks and our streets, and
10:02:18 any of the public property.
10:02:20 And in terms of there's not a permit required to go into the
10:02:22 public viewing area, there is going to be a process so we
10:02:27 would be able to know when they are going to take place and
10:02:30 make sure we are able to provide the type of logistics that
10:02:34 we need.
10:02:35 And our office is happy, and we have tried to do this
10:02:40 continuing going forward but we will be happy to meet with
10:02:42 any group or any individuals that have questions about what
10:02:46 will or will not be allowed in Tampa that week.
10:02:49 And Chief Castor's idea is to publish something that we will
10:02:53 be distributing not only online, but hard copies to groups
10:02:58 and individuals, letting them know what the rules are so we
10:03:01 won't hopefully have confusion.
10:03:05 And I don't disagree with a lot of what the gentleman from
10:03:10 the ACLU said.
10:03:11 We want to work.
10:03:13 We want to make this work.
10:03:14 We want to allow people to do what they are legally allowed
10:03:19 to do.
10:03:19 But we want to make sure that we have the ability to keep
10:03:22 people safe that week.
10:03:23 And you have seen how groups get out of control.
10:03:29 We are trying to avoid that but we absolutely want to give
10:03:32 people the opportunity to raise alternative opinions and
10:03:37 views and things like that.
10:03:39 I'm happy to answer any other questions.
10:03:42 We'll continue to work with groups and individuals as we get
10:03:44 closer to the event.
10:03:50 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I was concerned about the area being larger
10:03:52 than it really needed to be.
10:03:54 And, therefore, I voted no.
10:03:56 But I want to say that I have voted for every peace of
10:04:00 equipment that has been asked for, every piece of apparel,
10:04:11 every camera, basically everything that has been asked for,
10:04:13 I have voted for, in favor of.
10:04:19 My vote on this will continue to be no, and it is because I
10:04:25 do feel that the area is larger than it needs to be.
10:04:30 I also -- but this is not part of the ordinance -- if at all
10:04:37 possible that we look into having an area where people can
10:04:42 stay, that don't have a place to stay, because we want to be
10:04:47 a welcoming city.
10:04:50 I understand their protective part very much so.
10:04:53 I have been in situations both where protestors have stopped
10:04:59 traffic on expressways when the car stops, set the cars on
10:05:02 fire, and I witnessed this along with shootings from the
10:05:07 police which killed a bystander.
10:05:10 So it can get very, very, very hairy very quickly.
10:05:15 So therefore I voted for every piece of equipment that was
10:05:18 asked for.
10:05:23 But I still don't understand the area.
10:05:26 I still don't know.
10:05:28 Help me with this a little bit.
10:05:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm sorry, I am just going to make a
10:05:31 statement and I have to leave.
10:05:33 I have to leave at 10:00.
10:05:36 I have known it for some time.
10:05:39 I didn't know this was coming today.
10:05:40 It's been prolonged and changed various times.
10:05:43 But if I was here I would support the ordinance.
10:05:46 I am not going to be here, but the record shall reflect that
10:05:48 I support the ordinance although I am not voting on it.
10:05:52 Mr. Cohen will handle the remaining of the meeting.
10:05:55 And so my apologies to my colleagues and my apologies to the
10:06:00 >>> Specifically to the size of the ordinance, we never had
10:06:15 a chance to discuss that, I think in, this forum and I want
10:06:17 to say from the police department point of view, and many of
10:06:20 you attended our citizens academy, and we don't do anything
10:06:24 without deep analysis.
10:06:25 And a lot of the boundaries that were supplied in the
10:06:28 original, and then modified in a way of convenience and
10:06:31 understanding, for our community and being tailored from our
10:06:35 community came from analysis of previous events, and the
10:06:39 analyses showed that criminal energy had a footprint larger
10:06:42 than what we have already submit submitted to council.
10:06:45 So that's what we are trying to do is protect the space, so
10:06:48 that people can have first amendment rights and it doesn't
10:06:51 become survival of the fittest for first amendment rights
10:06:54 but survival for everybody for first amendment rights.
10:06:56 So that's why the space is what it was.
10:06:59 It wasn't arbitrary.
10:07:00 I mean, part of what we did is to make sure if you are from
10:07:04 out of town, worked with legal so you understand the
10:07:08 But those boundaries are below what we have seen
10:07:11 analytically and criminal energy from previous events.
10:07:14 So it wasn't just by happenstance.
10:07:17 I want to make sure that's clear.
10:07:22 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
10:07:24 >>HARRY COHEN: Additional questions by council members?
10:07:31 Then Ms. Mulhern and Mr. Suarez.
10:07:33 Mr. Reddick?
10:07:34 >>FRANK REDDICK: I will move this resolution.
10:07:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:07:45 I didn't support this on the first reading for a lot of
10:07:49 reasons that were mentioned today.
10:07:52 I think the biggest problem with it, the biggest specific
10:08:01 problem I have with it, is the permitting idea, and the idea
10:08:05 as we heard that it's not really workable to -- in an event
10:08:12 like this where there are going to be so many individuals,
10:08:15 so many groups, and it is going to be people protesting for
10:08:20 many different reasons.
10:08:21 So the idea that you can limit an event -- and I understand
10:08:29 that the idea that by giving one group a permit, you are not
10:08:33 excluding anyone else, but then to give the explanation that
10:08:40 the permitted protest is disrupted would be a reason to
10:08:46 exclude someone.
10:08:48 It just sets up the discretion that I think is worrisome,
10:08:55 and I think even though -- I really respect all the work
10:08:59 that legal has put into this, and that TPD has put into
10:09:04 And because I have great confidence in our police
10:09:06 department, and in our laws, which I think already protect
10:09:10 us from all of the things that this ordinance is a response
10:09:16 to fears we have of what could happen, I think we already
10:09:19 have that in law.
10:09:20 But because I don't feel -- at the end of the day when I
10:09:27 read this ordinance, do I feel safer because of this
10:09:31 And that's really what it's coming down for me today.
10:09:34 Do I feel safer because of the restrictions in this
10:09:37 ordinance during that convention?
10:09:39 Do I feel like we are protecting our guests, our citizens,
10:09:44 our police department?
10:09:47 And honestly I don't.
10:09:48 I don't feel like this answer it is problems that this is
10:09:51 going to bring on, which are huge and challenging.
10:09:55 The problem of allowing people to protest peacefully, and
10:10:01 the problem of dealing with the violence and disruption that
10:10:05 may happen.
10:10:08 I don't feel like this ordinance really is gonna help.
10:10:12 I feel like there are so many things in it that will
10:10:16 allow -- possibly allow things to escalate so that those who
10:10:21 are here for peaceful reasons can be arrested, can be
10:10:25 isolated, and I don't feel that confidence from this
10:10:31 ordinance that we are making it a safer place.
10:10:34 So, really, what I want to say, and which I've heard from
10:10:38 the public and I know that this council has been very, very
10:10:43 difficult for us to realize that we can restrict all sorts
10:10:49 of things with an ordinance, but we can't tell people that
10:10:52 they cannot come into this national special security event,
10:10:59 we can't tell them to leave their weapons at home.
10:11:03 And I'm not comfortable -- I'm not comfortable with passing
10:11:10 this as if this is going to be the protection for those
10:11:13 guests, as Councilwoman Capin so kindly named them, the
10:11:18 guests who are coming here for the convention, our citizens
10:11:23 and our police department, that I can't say that I'm going
10:11:26 to pass an ordinance that's going to protect people from
10:11:29 lethal weapons.
10:11:31 I think it's unbelievable.
10:11:34 We understand, and we have been schooled on this through
10:11:37 this process, that we can put reasonable restrictions on
10:11:40 free speech, but that's okay.
10:11:44 And that we can write this 18-page ordinance that restricts
10:11:48 people's ability to express themselves.
10:11:50 But we can't restrict people from bringing guns, concealed
10:11:56 weapons into this area.
10:11:59 This is our job, to protect our citizens.
10:12:02 This convention is coming here to our city.
10:12:06 And I don't feel like I can say as an elected city official,
10:12:11 I'm going to be able to protect the people who live here,
10:12:14 people who work for this city, our police department, and
10:12:20 our visitors, because of this state law.
10:12:23 So I would not vote for anything until I hear -- and I have
10:12:29 not been convinced.
10:12:31 We saw the letter that the mayor sent to the governor, and
10:12:35 we saw the governor's response, and, frankly, I don't buy
10:12:40 This is a national special security event.
10:12:45 We have been prohibited, the City Council and the mayor,
10:12:51 from passing a law that would go further to restrict
10:12:56 carrying guns into this public event.
10:12:59 However, there are places where you cannot bring weapons.
10:13:03 You can't bring them to libraries.
10:13:07 There's a couple other places.
10:13:08 I can't remember what the other one.
10:13:10 Polling places.
10:13:11 I think that -- for instance, here, you can't bring them
10:13:16 into this assembly that we are having today, this meeting,
10:13:20 public meeting we are having.
10:13:22 Well, the Republican national convention is a huge public
10:13:25 meeting, and the area around it is an area that is part of
10:13:30 that assembly and part of that that meeting.
10:13:33 So there's no reason why our legislature couldn't pass a
10:13:38 temporary ban on firearms.
10:13:41 A suspension of that rule for this convention, why our
10:13:44 governor couldn't do that.
10:13:47 And if they are not willing to do that, the Department of
10:13:49 Justice, who is in charge of this event, needs to look a
10:13:54 little further than the forum, a little further than where
10:14:01 these politicians are going to be, and think about our
10:14:05 citizens of this city, of this state, of this country, in
10:14:10 protecting them.
10:14:11 So I'm not comfortable with any kind of temporary ordinance
10:14:18 or law we are passing for this convention unless we deal
10:14:21 with that problem.
10:14:22 And I believe we can.
10:14:25 Council, we have been told we can't do anything about it.
10:14:27 But I'm telling you, those who can do something about it
10:14:32 have better.
10:14:32 >>HARRY COHEN: Mr. Suarez.
10:14:35 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair.
10:14:44 For the last few months we have been talking about the RNC,
10:14:48 and what we were going to do in terms of trying to make sure
10:14:51 that our city was going to be as safe as possible for all
10:14:54 visitors and protestors and participants in the convention.
10:15:00 We have struggled, obviously, over the last few months
10:15:03 trying to figure out the right balance between those two.
10:15:05 We have heard from the ACLU who admitted that the time,
10:15:09 manner and place of protest is allowed in terms of
10:15:14 regulation by the courts.
10:15:17 We are a nation of laws.
10:15:19 When we make these ordinances and these laws, we depend on
10:15:21 the courts to interpret and to tell us whether or not we are
10:15:25 in the right.
10:15:26 Sometimes we are and sometimes we are not.
10:15:29 I am taking the position that we will be in the right in
10:15:32 this particular sense.
10:15:35 We have been a democracy for over 200 years, and we have had
10:15:42 many things happen that have caused us to either break our
10:15:47 own laws or cause other people to be injured because we are
10:15:51 breaking our own laws.
10:15:54 Abraham Lincoln suspended the writ of habeas corpus, and we
10:16:01 The people that came out of reconstruction in the 1880s
10:16:06 created Jim crow laws that restricted the right to vote, the
10:16:11 right to hold property, many other rights of former slaves,
10:16:15 and people that were considered citizens under the 14th
10:16:18 amendment, and we survived.
10:16:21 We have had Japanese citizens in turn in California and
10:16:28 other parts of the west and took their property and trampled
10:16:32 on their rights, and we survived.
10:16:34 We do not believe that this rises to that occasion.
10:16:40 That is not what we are doing here.
10:16:43 The four days or five days in which people are going to be
10:16:46 here for the RNC and for protests, we don't believe that
10:16:50 that is what is happening here.
10:16:52 We are not trampling on rights.
10:16:54 We are trying to balance between the two, between public
10:16:56 safety and the rights of the people that are here.
10:17:00 People are going to disagree.
10:17:02 Some people are going to agree.
10:17:03 But we are trying our best to balance the two.
10:17:07 Someone made a comment -- and I have made this comment two
10:17:11 weeks ago when we first brought this up, the democracy is
10:17:16 messy, and what messy means is sometimes the people that are
10:17:20 saying they are against something are the people who are
10:17:22 governing does not mean that their rights, and it doesn't --
10:17:26 doesn't mean they are right and doesn't mean we are wrong
10:17:28 and vice versa.
10:17:29 Sometimes we will be wrong and the courts will tell us that.
10:17:31 Again we are trying our best to try and balance those two.
10:17:34 We want to make this a safe as possible for all participants
10:17:39 and all people that live in this city that have to live and
10:17:42 work and deliver their children to school and go about their
10:17:45 business without any concern about what's going on over at
10:17:48 the forum or the convention center.
10:17:51 I think that Councilwoman Mulhern's point is well taken.
10:17:57 Part of what has happened is they have passed a law that
10:17:59 will not allow us to pass an ordinance, to restrict firearms
10:18:03 within any part of the city.
10:18:06 We are personally liable if we pass that.
10:18:09 $100,000 fine.
10:18:12 And that's on something I don't think any of us when we got
10:18:15 elected knew was going to happen.
10:18:19 So as a member of this council -- and I think that all the
10:18:23 members of this council debated this significantly.
10:18:28 They have turned it over in their minds many times as to
10:18:30 what the right direction to take is.
10:18:32 And I will say that it has not been an easy process, and it
10:18:37 has been messy.
10:18:38 But I think that considering what we have tried to look at,
10:18:43 I think this is the best direction to go at this time.
10:18:46 Thank you, chair.
10:18:47 >>HARRY COHEN: Mr. Reddick.
10:18:50 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10:18:54 Councilwoman Mulhern, you gave a very passionate plea in
10:19:05 regards to the issue we are dealing with that pertains to
10:19:09 guns, and what we are facing, for those not prohibited in
10:19:18 bringing guns.
10:19:18 I respect what you are saying.
10:19:20 And it really touched me because of what could happen.
10:19:25 And I just have a question for legal.
10:19:32 Let me ask you this.
10:19:34 Even though the government refused to grant us that right to
10:19:44 bring guns here, could we appeal to the -- is it possible --
10:19:49 could we appeal to the United States attorney general's
10:19:53 office to supersede the governor?
10:19:59 >>JIM SHIMBERG: We could appeal to them.
10:20:00 I think their jurisdiction to this event is -- that they are
10:20:06 not allowing guns in.
10:20:08 >>FRANK REDDICK: I just wonder, this is a national event.
10:20:11 And you have a presidential -- they are going to nominate a
10:20:19 presidential candidate for a national party here.
10:20:21 And I'm just wondering, does the United States attorney
10:20:26 general have a role that we can appeal to them as an
10:20:33 emergency and understanding that there's a probability that
10:20:37 something like this could happen?
10:20:40 >>JIM SHIMBERG: I don't think so, but we are happy to look
10:20:42 into that for you if you would like us to.
10:20:46 The Florida legislature could do something about that
10:20:48 because that's a Florida State law that we are talking
10:20:52 >>FRANK REDDICK: And I understand it's state law and I am
10:20:56 wondering on federal levels --
10:20:59 >>JIM SHIMBERG: When we have inquired previously to the
10:21:01 secret service, you know, their boundaries that they are
10:21:06 establishing and they are not allowing guns in that area.
10:21:08 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right.
10:21:11 But could that be pursued to look?
10:21:14 Because you have got -- you have federal agencies that will
10:21:16 be here, FBI agents that will be here, and because of that,
10:21:26 I'm just wondering -- I mean, we can't lose nothing by
10:21:32 saying let's see if the United States attorney general will
10:21:34 look into this, or appealing to them to see if there's a
10:21:39 I don't know, and I'm no lawyer so I guess that's why I am
10:21:43 asking the questions, but it would seem to me if the
10:21:45 governor of this state refused to grant us, even though it's
10:21:51 the State of Florida, and you have got federal agencies that
10:21:54 will be in this area patrolling the certain parameters of
10:21:56 the city, whether that allows the state attorney general to
10:22:03 intercede and say we can overstep the governor of the state
10:22:09 >>JIM SHIMBERG: We can talk about it and report back to you
10:22:11 on that.
10:22:12 >>FRANK REDDICK: I appreciate you doing that.
10:22:14 That's one question I have for you.
10:22:17 Mr. Chair, that's all I have pertaining to that.
10:22:25 I just want to say, each time we have discussed this issue,
10:22:34 we have allowed those who object to this convention, who
10:22:39 have some objections to part of this ordinance, to stand
10:22:43 before this body to speak.
10:22:46 And I don't think no one has antagonized them in any way,
10:22:53 allowing them three minutes to speak before this body, but
10:22:57 what disturbed me is you can come and make your comments and
10:23:05 we sit here and listen and don't object to any of your
10:23:08 comments, but you do not have the right to deface the
10:23:14 building that we hold meetings at.
10:23:17 And when I come to this building and see that there are
10:23:25 certain members of a group that are out there defacing the
10:23:29 building, you don't have that right.
10:23:30 You don't have the right to deface the restroom in this
10:23:38 And when I walked in the restroom in this building, and see
10:23:42 where you have left your mark on the windows and on the
10:23:44 walls, you don't have that right.
10:23:47 Now, we sit here and allow you to talk, say what you have to
10:23:51 say, and when I hear people make comments about
10:23:57 criminalizing protesting, criminalizing this, you are
10:24:00 putting yourself in that position.
10:24:04 Because you are criminalizing this building.
10:24:07 You can make your voice known.
10:24:10 You can make your voices heard.
10:24:13 But you do not have the right to deface this building.
10:24:20 Now, we have been trying to be generous, trying to have the
10:24:24 best ordinance, trying to be fair to everyone, but I will be
10:24:33 on the police side if they catch you out there defacing this
10:24:36 building and marking up the restroom in this facility.
10:24:39 And I have observed that.
10:24:42 And that is not right.
10:24:47 Now, if you want to be fair, this ordinance is going to
10:24:51 allow you to have your free speech, but it doesn't allow you
10:24:57 to deface this building.
10:25:00 To deface this facility.
10:25:02 So I will hope you tell your friends or those who support
10:25:05 your cause, you can be heard.
10:25:10 We hear you.
10:25:12 We listen to you every day you are down here.
10:25:14 We read your comments in the paper, see you on TV, but you
10:25:19 don't need to leave your mark on this building.
10:25:23 I will not accept that.
10:25:24 And I support what you are doing but will not accept that.
10:25:30 Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10:25:31 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10:25:37 I have a few things to say, and it comes as no surprise to
10:25:42 And that is that I agree with, you know, many of the things
10:25:46 that were here on both sides, with what Councilman Suarez
10:25:52 has remarked about our democracy and that it is messy and
10:25:57 what Councilwoman Mulhern state board of director some of
10:26:00 the reservations that she has as expressed by others.
10:26:05 So it's very difficult to approach such a monumental
10:26:15 And we all see many sides, and we all see how we want to
10:26:22 protect both the visitors and guests who are coming here,
10:26:26 and our citizens, and the property and the city as Mr.
10:26:33 Reddick pointed out, the investment in our infrastructure,
10:26:35 and in our downtown.
10:26:38 We don't want anyone coming here on either side of the
10:26:43 political agenda of the party that is visiting here, and our
10:26:48 colleagues in Charlotte I'm sure feel the same way.
10:26:52 We are trying to prescribe order and chaos, and that's a
10:27:02 very different things to do, and whether this ordinance
10:27:04 makes me feel safer, we as counsel members are afforded a
10:27:07 little more protection than your average ordinary citizens.
10:27:11 My concern is my constituents.
10:27:14 And the people who are coming here to the city, whether they
10:27:17 are coming here to protest or whether they are coming here
10:27:19 to participate.
10:27:21 So what I am looking at is how do we protect everyone, and
10:27:27 at the same time protecting their free speech rights?
10:27:34 So I tend to be a person who looks at the black and white
10:27:37 words on the page and what's delivered to us.
10:27:50 Legal staff has been very gracious with their time and we
10:27:52 had many discussions and many of the things that I have
10:27:54 requested have been reflected in the changes so we are
10:28:00 looking at an ordinance that comings to us with I would say
10:28:04 minor changes from what we looked at a few weeks ago.
10:28:07 The one thing that I did ask for was that the park system
10:28:11 with the City of Tampa, all adhere to the same permitting
10:28:16 process for those four days.
10:28:19 That I do not see in the new ordinance.
10:28:22 Mr. Shimberg, can you explain to me why we have to have two
10:28:25 different permitting processes during the RNC, one for parks
10:28:30 within the event zone and covered under the lottery and one
10:28:34 that is not?
10:28:35 Because our regulations for assembly and parks can be
10:28:42 >> Maurice Rodriguez with the legal department to address
10:28:48 Councilman Montelione's question.
10:28:51 >> And I apologize I didn't get to talk about this
10:28:54 It was a busy day.
10:28:55 >> I understand.
10:28:55 The reason we allow the department director to designate
10:28:59 additional parks through the lottery process instead of
10:29:03 going city-wide is that we have approximately 120 parks
10:29:06 city-wide, so trying to create a permit process in the
10:29:11 lottery system with 120 parks is unworkable for us and
10:29:18 And certain parks already had permits issued for them,
10:29:22 because you have facilities in them, a facility use permit
10:29:26 or other special event permits that have already been
10:29:29 So we would have to go back, and then reprocess those and
10:29:33 maybe reimburse people who have already paid under the old
10:29:37 Under the new system, the department director can have that
10:29:41 flexibility to add additional parks if there's a demand for
10:29:46 And we have already looked at four or five additional parks
10:29:49 that he can add.
10:29:52 So we do create more space for everyone to exercise first
10:29:56 amendment rights and gather without having to go -- without
10:30:00 having to go through the entire city.
10:30:02 >> I would imagine that there are some parks that were in
10:30:04 the previous boundaries of the event zone that now the event
10:30:08 zone has shrunk in its dimensions, but those parks that were
10:30:16 originally are now not part of that zone.
10:30:19 So could we include those in a certain proximity --
10:30:29 >> Yes. Proximity is one of the first factors that we look
10:30:33 We would like to include parks that are close to the event
10:30:37 zone as possible.
10:30:39 And some of them we did include a little further away.
10:30:42 For example, looking at Al Lopez park.
10:30:44 It's further away.
10:30:45 But it's such a large park it can accommodate so many
10:30:51 So proximity is one of the factors that we look at when we
10:30:53 are including parks in our lottery process.
10:30:55 >> It's not part of the ordinance, so otherwise I trust the
10:31:01 decisions and sometimes agree with them and sometimes don't.
10:31:07 I am a little concerned of the availability of space,
10:31:14 because there will be quite a number of people coming.
10:31:16 So that was a concern of mine.
10:31:19 And I would have liked to have seen a little bit more
10:31:22 definition to that.
10:31:26 The issue of the ability of people to carry concealed
10:31:32 weapons into our downtown and each of the event zones is
10:31:37 something that I have talked quite a bit about.
10:31:41 I did compose a letter for council to consider sending to
10:31:44 the governor.
10:31:45 However, the vote that was taken that day was that some
10:31:52 council members wanted to see revisions to that letter.
10:31:54 Well, by the time that would have come up before again to
10:31:59 send the revised letter, we had already gotten a response
10:32:02 from the governor to the mayor's letter.
10:32:04 So the letter that I had composed didn't go anywhere. But
10:32:07 when I discussed the letter on council, and it was clear the
10:32:11 governor was rejecting the notion, I had requested of
10:32:17 council that we revise the letter, and instead of sending to
10:32:20 the governor we send to the our legislative delegation, and
10:32:23 then we send to the secret service, and we send it to the
10:32:26 attorney general's office.
10:32:27 That did not get any support.
10:32:29 So, you know, I would again bring this up, that we have this
10:32:34 letter revised to be sent -- have been has a copy of it from
10:32:40 the last time -- and rather than direct it to the governor,
10:32:45 we revise it to say that the mayor of our city respectfully
10:32:52 requested the governor approve an emergency executive order
10:32:54 that we temporarily suspend the restrictions of section
10:32:58 790.33, section 3, Florida statutes, that would prohibit the
10:33:02 City of Tampa from regulating the transportation of firearms
10:33:05 during the Republican national convention to be held in
10:33:07 Tampa from August 27 through 30.
10:33:10 We believe it is necessary and prudent to take reasonable
10:33:14 steps to prevent a tragedy.
10:33:18 That request was summarily denied.
10:33:20 Leadership will be -- that entire paragraph stay the same as
10:33:25 in the first letter, and then the last paragraph, the only
10:33:28 change would be that with respect to the request that the
10:33:33 legislative leadership determine how best to quickly address
10:33:35 this paramount issue of public safety.
10:33:37 So a minor change to the letter already provided would send
10:33:44 that message to our legislative delegation and if they don't
10:33:47 already know.
10:33:47 >>HARRY COHEN: Let me suggest, Mrs. Montelione that we take
10:33:52 a vote on the ordinance we have in front of us and then
10:33:54 we'll immediately turn to the issue of the guns right after
10:33:59 that, because for the purposes of voting they are two
10:34:02 separate issues.
10:34:02 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I understand.
10:34:04 >>HARRY COHEN: Are you finished?
10:34:08 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I was just going to ask TPD to restate
10:34:11 for the record -- thank you -- the policy for use of -- the
10:34:22 direction that the other 4,000 officers coming in, and again
10:34:26 it's my concern that officers who are not trained under the
10:34:28 Tampa Police Department's system embody the spirit of chief
10:34:36 Castor and your leadership within our offices.
10:34:40 >> To give you an update on that, Councilwoman, we have
10:34:45 regular meetings, both internally and of course with the
10:34:49 entire public safety group on a frequent basis.
10:34:52 And just recently, of course, Chief Castor's wisdom, we
10:34:57 brought down a group from Washington, and we essentially
10:35:00 commissioned a nationwide study to see what the best
10:35:02 synthesis of these policies were for coalition efforts to
10:35:07 make sure that we looked at previous policies that have been
10:35:10 constructed like this when you bring in mutual aid, you
10:35:13 know, public safety support.
10:35:15 So we went to all the best practices, international
10:35:19 association, chiefs of police, professional enforcement of
10:35:23 law enforcement agencies, statewide and nationwide.
10:35:26 So we are looking at that.
10:35:27 On top of that, my counterpart colonel Duncan personally
10:35:30 under the direction of Sheriff Gee went to all the sheriff's
10:35:33 offices that have offered to support the event and had
10:35:38 direct dialogue with the sheriffs from the command staff to
10:35:40 make sure that they understand it was going to work under
10:35:43 our philosophy, and the way we do things in the city and
10:35:46 Hillsborough County to make sure that we have those policies
10:35:50 in place and understood before we ever took the street to
10:35:54 protect our public.
10:35:54 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And the request that I had made for the
10:36:02 list of departments, what's the status of that?
10:36:06 >> The memorandum of understanding is held up in legal over
10:36:09 the insurance process, but it's just about ready to release.
10:36:13 And once that's released and shared with the agencies that
10:36:16 offer theory support, and then of course signed, then we
10:36:19 will know exactly, and we can give you the exact numbers and
10:36:23 the exact agencies.
10:36:24 So we predict that here in the necessary future.
10:36:26 I know the draft is finally settled in.
10:36:28 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
10:36:29 That is all.
10:36:30 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Capin.
10:36:34 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
10:36:37 I was looking this over, and I see here that at least once
10:36:42 explosives are mentioned.
10:36:53 Is there any way that we can look at that?
10:36:59 This is for our attorney.
10:37:06 Aren't ballistics explosives?
10:37:11 >> I don't believe so, because an explosive, I usually think
10:37:14 of as a bomb or something along those lines.
10:37:16 But I think where you are going with this, it specifically
10:37:22 states ammunition as prohibited item that we cannot
10:37:26 regulator the city cannot regulate in addition to firearms.
10:37:29 It specifically states fair arms and ammunitions.
10:37:34 >>YVONNE CAPIN: And then we have a list of the ammunitions
10:37:37 that we are not allowed to prohibit?
10:37:41 >>JIM SHIMBERG: Let me clarify, what we trade to do in order
10:37:43 to protect all of you is put something in the ordinance
10:37:45 that -- there's nothing in this ordinance that conflicts
10:37:48 with the 790 prohibition, because I don't want somebody to
10:37:52 claim that you regulated something that you weren't allowed
10:37:55 to regulate.
10:37:56 So that language would control.
10:37:58 The fact that we are not regulating an area that we are
10:38:01 preempted to do.
10:38:02 Now if we can get that changed some other way that's fine.
10:38:06 So we are doing the best we can but also trying to protect
10:38:08 council by saying that we are not trying to do anything that
10:38:11 we are not legally allowed to do by the state preemption.
10:38:15 So again, you are making some good points, but we have trade
10:38:21 to do the best we could.
10:38:23 We are clarifying we don't want to --
10:38:29 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I very much appreciate and know the hard
10:38:31 work that has gone into this.
10:38:33 And I truly understand.
10:38:43 I just saw that on there and thought maybe there's something
10:38:46 But I'm sure they preempted that, and we have again our
10:38:50 hands tied when it comes to firearms.
10:39:00 I think at the time this first came up, there are 44,000 in
10:39:05 the city that have concealed weapon permits.
10:39:11 Is that about right?
10:39:12 The number?
10:39:13 Or do we have a number?
10:39:17 We don't have a number?
10:39:18 It's 44,000 in the city and quite a bit more in the county.
10:39:30 It is almost unnerving to think that the governor and the
10:39:35 legislature have put us in this position to deal with.
10:39:40 I'm sorry that the secret service cannot -- they designated
10:39:44 the area.
10:39:44 They designated their area.
10:39:46 The secret service designated their area of purview?
10:39:54 >>JIM SHIMBERG: The event is a national security event which
10:39:57 means secret service is essentially in charge of law
10:40:01 enforcement relating to the event.
10:40:03 But in terms of the zone that they designated they have not
10:40:06 made that public yet.
10:40:07 And so in our discussions with them, based on unscientific
10:40:16 evidence and it's not created in order to --
10:40:19 >>YVONNE CAPIN: So it could be possible that it's larger
10:40:21 than just the forum?
10:40:23 >>JIM SHIMBERG: Could be.
10:40:23 It has not been publicly announced by secret service yet.
10:40:27 They said it would be publicly announced four to six weeks
10:40:29 before the event.
10:40:32 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
10:40:32 I won't delay this anymore.
10:40:34 Thank you.
10:40:35 >>HARRY COHEN: Mrs. Mulhern.
10:40:39 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:40:41 I just wanted to say that the one thing we could do is to
10:40:45 not vote for this ordinance today until we have these
10:40:51 questions addressed by the governor again and the state
10:40:55 legislature and perhaps the Department of Justice.
10:40:58 I'm not convinced -- and that was part of what I was saying,
10:41:04 Councilwoman Capin, that they can't expand that zone to
10:41:07 include the public areas.
10:41:09 And I'm asking them to do it.
10:41:17 Councilwoman Montelione, I don't think I heres when you
10:41:20 brought up that letter because I would have supported it, I
10:41:23 think, the letter from the mayor, and the exchange had
10:41:25 already happened.
10:41:26 But I support that.
10:41:27 And I think we can do it.
10:41:30 I think it would have some impact if we actually did not
10:41:33 pass this ordinance today.
10:41:38 >>JIM SHIMBERG: One comment.
10:41:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Otherwise -- let me just finish before I
10:41:44 forget what I was going to say.
10:41:45 As chairman Cohen said, he would like you to hold your
10:41:48 But I would like council to consider the fact that asking
10:41:52 for help from the state government, from the governor, or
10:41:57 the legislature, and federal government with this problem of
10:42:02 firearms at our convention, I would -- it would actually
10:42:09 have more weight if we did not pass this ordinance today.
10:42:14 >>JIM SHIMBERG: The only comment I have on that, I don't
10:42:16 think that any of the discussions relating to firearms would
10:42:20 be precluded if we pass this ordinance and if we are not
10:42:22 able to pass this ordinance today we are not able to put the
10:42:25 permitting process in place that allows to us start
10:42:27 permitting for parades and their events.
10:42:31 And so we want to put that in place.
10:42:34 And that's really why we are here now for something that's
10:42:37 not happening for three months.
10:42:38 Again, I don't think that passing this ordinance first of
10:42:40 all, if you did somehow receive the ability to regulate in
10:42:45 that area we can amend it or pass another ordinance related
10:42:48 That but if we don't put in the place now we are not going
10:42:50 to be able to get the permitting process started for the
10:42:53 schedule we have outlined and already told the groups we are
10:42:55 going to try to do.
10:42:57 But it's up to you all.
10:42:58 >>MARY MULHERN: If we don't pass it, we might have
10:43:01 somebody's ear.
10:43:02 >>HARRY COHEN: I haven't made any comments yet about this
10:43:09 And I just want to say that I -- I am very much concerned
10:43:14 about the issues that may colleagues raised as to the impact
10:43:22 of people being able to bring concealed firearms into the
10:43:26 city during what is clearly going to be a very provocative
10:43:34 and emotional and very public-spirited event.
10:43:39 But I do think that this ordinance that we are passing today
10:43:43 is really separate from the issue of the guns.
10:43:49 I think that the process that we have gone through to get to
10:43:54 this point, I heard someone in the audience during the
10:43:56 public comment talk about Charlotte and having their work
10:44:00 done in January.
10:44:01 I don't live in Charlotte, but my understanding, from what I
10:44:05 have read, is that Charlotte did not have nearly as large
10:44:09 and robust of a public discussion on this matter as we have
10:44:12 had here in Tampa.
10:44:15 We have taken testimony and listened to everyone who has
10:44:17 wanted to speak on this issue.
10:44:20 And where I have ultimately come down on the ordinance
10:44:24 itself is that I think it's reasonable.
10:44:26 And I think that the city attorney and the police department
10:44:29 are making the best efforts that they can, and the mayor, to
10:44:32 put reasonable restrictions in place to ensure everybody's
10:44:36 safety, the safety of our visitors, the safety of our
10:44:39 residents, and the safety of all the people that are going
10:44:43 to be milling in and out of the city during this very, very
10:44:45 significant weeklong event.
10:44:51 I understand Councilwoman Mulhern's points.
10:44:53 I disagree, though.
10:44:55 I think we should go ahead and pass the ordinance and then
10:44:57 take up what we can do on the gun issue.
10:45:00 To follow up on what Mr. Reddick said, I think that really
10:45:04 the appropriate request might be of the secret service, and
10:45:09 to ask them to expand the footprints of what they are
10:45:14 considering now, specifically because of the state law that
10:45:19 does not allow us to put these regulations in place inside
10:45:23 of our own event zone.
10:45:25 To me, that would be -- that would certainly be a logical
10:45:29 way to go about trying to address the problem.
10:45:34 With that said, I think everyone has spoken their piece and
10:45:39 I would like Mr. Reddick to read the substitute ordinance.
10:45:42 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10:45:51 Move an ordinance for second reading and adoption.
10:45:53 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Move to close the public hearing.
10:45:59 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
10:46:00 >>HARRY COHEN: All in favor?
10:46:02 I'm sorry, Mr. Reddick, go ahead.
10:46:03 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move a substitute ordinance for second
10:46:07 reading and adoption, an ordinance of the city of Tampa,
10:46:09 Florida regulating activities in the City of Tampa relating
10:46:13 to the 2012 Republican national convention designated
10:46:17 geographical boundaries, dates and times for the event zone,
10:46:22 creating a public viewing area, providing for public hearing
10:46:26 permit process, designating official parade route, providing
10:46:30 for parade route permit process, outside of the official
10:46:35 parade route, providing for reasonable time, place and
10:46:38 manner, regulation, concerning materials, carry or used in
10:46:45 the City of Tampa, concerning material that may be
10:46:53 presented, car carry or use in the event zone, providing for
10:46:56 prohibition concerning in the public viewing area, providing
10:47:02 for efficient operation in the right-of-way, providing for
10:47:07 prohibition on camping, providing for prohibition on public
10:47:12 urination and defecation, providing for penalties of
10:47:17 violation of this ordinance, providing a temporarily
10:47:19 security permit process, providing for extended hours of
10:47:23 operation of parks, located within the event zone, providing
10:47:26 for severability, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
10:47:29 conflict, providing an effective date.
10:47:31 >> Second.
10:47:35 >>HARRY COHEN: Motion by Councilman Reddick, seconded by
10:47:37 Councilman Suarez.
10:47:38 This is a recorded vote.
10:47:39 Please vote and record.
10:47:40 >>THE CLERK: Need one more vote.
10:47:51 >> It looks like I have to do that again.
10:47:56 >> There were only five voting members.
10:48:00 >>HARRY COHEN: I think we need to redo it.
10:48:12 Vote and record.
10:48:16 >> Motion carried with Capin and Mulhern voting no and
10:48:29 Miranda being absent.
10:48:30 >>HARRY COHEN: Okay.
10:48:37 Is it council's pleasure to now take up the matter of the
10:48:39 guns that we were just talking about?
10:48:44 Councilwoman Montelione.
10:48:52 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So the letter, I had provided to council
10:48:57 members a couple of weeks ago, and there would just be minor
10:48:59 changes to the letter, as I said, rather than the letter
10:49:04 being directed to the governor.
10:49:07 It would be directed to the Department of Justice.
10:49:10 And this is from what I heard people, you know, here talking
10:49:13 about a minute ago, Department of Justice, secret service,
10:49:16 the legislature -- legislative delegation, both Florida
10:49:19 State and U.S. legislators, and the U.S. attorney general's
10:49:26 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:49:32 >>MARY MULHERN: I think there are two separate letters.
10:49:34 You can send one to the governor and the legislature --
10:49:38 actually probably three.
10:49:39 One to the governor, one to the legislature, and then one to
10:49:44 the Justice Department, because you are asking for a
10:49:48 separate, you know, what I was suggesting from the beginning
10:49:52 was that the secret service, Department of Justice expand
10:49:56 this zone.
10:49:58 So that's a different question than asking the state to do
10:50:01 I think you would have to have two different letters.
10:50:04 >>HARRY COHEN: Secret service is actually not part of the
10:50:08 Department of Justice so you are talking about two separate
10:50:10 letters at the federal level.
10:50:12 You are talking about four letters.
10:50:13 >> Department of Justice, secret service, legislative
10:50:16 delegation, both congressional and state, and U.S. attorney
10:50:21 general's office.
10:50:22 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
10:50:23 Whoever is drawing the boundaries for the event.
10:50:26 So if that's the secret service or the Department of
10:50:29 Justice, whichever it is.
10:50:30 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Mr. Shimberg --
10:50:34 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't think that needs to be two separate
10:50:37 Whoever is drawing the boundaries.
10:50:38 >>HARRY COHEN: Let's just go one at a time.
10:50:40 Mr. Reddick.
10:50:43 >>JIM SHIMBERG: I didn't hear the question.
10:50:44 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Who is actually drawing the boundaries
10:50:46 for the secret service?
10:50:51 >>JIM SHIMBERG: United States secret service.
10:50:51 >>LISA MONTELIONE: There isn't another federal department
10:50:57 guiding them?
10:50:58 >> John Bennett, assistant chief.
10:51:04 The secret service has the responsibility of securing the
10:51:07 event but of course they report to the Department of
10:51:09 Homeland Security, and they are in consultation with the
10:51:14 United States attorney general's office.
10:51:16 So that's really the group that's making the decisions, that
10:51:20 would have to be defended in federal court.
10:51:26 >>LISA MONTELIONE: All right.
10:51:28 So there would be again minor changes.
10:51:37 A question for our attorney.
10:51:38 >>MARY MULHERN: You are asking for two things from
10:51:48 different --
10:51:49 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Right.
10:51:50 Secret Service, U.S. Attorney General would be one group,
10:51:52 one of those letters would be addressed to.
10:51:55 And this is a process question.
10:51:58 So I don't know if this is for Mr. Shelby or Mr. Shimberg.
10:52:03 If I were to draft those three letters, the ones to the
10:52:09 governor, continuing to send one to the governor, would
10:52:11 remain the same.
10:52:12 There wouldn't be any change to the one being sent to the
10:52:24 The mayor's request, would that have to come back to
10:52:27 Or could I revise this letter, didn't it to our attorney, or
10:52:32 to the clerk, and for council's review?
10:52:37 Or would it actually have to come back to this body for
10:52:41 review and approval of the letter before it is sent out?
10:52:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The answer to that is it depends on what
10:52:49 council wants.
10:52:50 Sometimes normally what happens with letters when you make a
10:52:52 motion, for the chairman's signature, you make the motion,
10:52:57 and that does not come back to council.
10:52:59 It's the chairman's prerogative.
10:53:02 If the letter is acceptable to the chairman, the chairman
10:53:04 signs it and sends it out.
10:53:06 If you wish it to come back, then that's something that you
10:53:08 would --
10:53:13 >>LISA MONTELIONE: It has been suggested to me that it
10:53:15 carries more weight if each and every one of us sign it
10:53:18 individually rather than just one from the chairman.
10:53:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If that's the case, what I prefer to do --
10:53:26 >> Would have to come back Suarez.
10:53:30 >>HARRY COHEN: If everyone signs it individually why does
10:53:33 it have to come back?
10:53:34 If everyone is willing to sign it, that would be the end of
10:53:37 it, wouldn't it?
10:53:38 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Just as a point of order.
10:53:43 When it comes from the council, comes from the chairman,
10:53:45 that's our voice together.
10:53:46 I don't think we need to individually sign anything.
10:53:48 I think it comes from the chair primarily because we are
10:53:51 going to vote on it.
10:53:52 We are going to make a decision as to what's in it and
10:53:54 what's it's going to say.
10:53:57 Part of the reason why we are having this discussion.
10:53:59 So if it comes from the chair carries as much weight as
10:54:03 anything because it's from all of us as a council.
10:54:06 Anytime we send out a letter.
10:54:07 Even if we disagree as individuals on the letter itself, we
10:54:11 have seen this in the past, it's still the weight of the
10:54:15 council has made the decision to send that letter.
10:54:19 We can all individually send letters to these departments.
10:54:23 I think it would be better just to have it sent directly
10:54:30 from the chair, and if we are talking about the things we
10:54:34 want in it, he will sign it and send it out.
10:54:37 >>HARRY COHEN: In this matter time is of the essence.
10:54:40 We need to get this letter out if it's going to have any
10:54:42 effect on the decisions that are made, so I would submit to
10:54:45 everyone that the quickest route really is the best route
10:54:50 Any further?
10:54:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to comment on that.
10:54:54 I don't see a need to send a letter out from this council to
10:54:59 the governor.
10:55:06 He turned the mayor down.
10:55:07 The leadership or the state legislature already stated that
10:55:11 they are not going to call a special session to address this
10:55:15 So we are wasting time.
10:55:17 I mean, everybody can send alert.
10:55:19 It should be the congressional delegation as well as the
10:55:22 secret service who can address it.
10:55:27 But to the governor.
10:55:29 And our state legislators, they are not going to call a
10:55:31 special session, and the governor definitely is not going to
10:55:35 sign it.
10:55:36 >>HARRY COHEN: Ms. Capin, then Mrs. Mulhern.
10:55:43 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I would like to have -- if that is
10:55:46 appropriate, a copy of the answer that the governor gave to
10:55:52 our mayor to be included with every letter we send out.
10:55:57 And that way, there's no question that -- the mayor has
10:56:03 asked and we are following up, that there is no relief from
10:56:09 our governor on this issue.
10:56:10 And that copy should go with it.
10:56:15 And again, it is City Council meeting now.
10:56:21 As far as -- expedience is important, and whichever one is
10:56:24 more expedient is what I will go with, is when we send a
10:56:27 letter from the chair, it could be a 4-3 vote, where if it
10:56:33 is a unanimous decision that we decide, they don't know that
10:56:37 it's unanimous, if it's just signed from the chair.
10:56:39 It is a majority but not unanimous.
10:56:43 And in this sense if everyone signed it, it is sending a
10:56:46 very strong message that we are pleading for help on this
10:56:50 >>HARRY COHEN: Ms. Mulhern.
10:56:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm thinking about Councilman Reddick is
10:57:01 right the governor -- we already heard what their position
10:57:04 I think it's important for us to weigh in.
10:57:07 And I think the weight and especially as councilwoman what
10:57:12 Capin said if we all sign it, the weight of council, this
10:57:17 letter we send becomes a response to the governor's letter.
10:57:22 Saying no.
10:57:24 We still would like to see you do this.
10:57:26 So I think it's important for us, you know, to say where we
10:57:32 stand on this, and to make the appeal, I think even though
10:57:37 it's a forgone conclusion.
10:57:43 There's always hope.
10:57:44 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Montelione.
10:57:47 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I agree with you, Councilwoman Mulhern,
10:57:52 that we send a letter from council to acknowledge that he
10:57:56 did deny the mayor's request and that City Council still
10:57:59 feels that this is an important enough issue that deserves
10:58:03 reconsideration, or that we express our displeasure with his
10:58:12 We have a workshop session on the 24th which would give
10:58:16 me time to craft the three letters, revise the one that is
10:58:21 already in existence, didn't it amongst council and then
10:58:26 come back in a week and vote on it and get it out the door.
10:58:29 So, I mean, not sending it out tomorrow, but on the
10:58:34 24th, I think, is a reasonable time frame.
10:58:38 So I would ask that -- and before I make the motion, I want
10:58:44 to say that when this came up before, when we discussed the
10:58:49 letter to the governor, and we discussed the concealed
10:58:53 weapons being carried within the event zone, I thought that
10:59:01 my phone was going to start ringing to have hook, and that I
10:59:06 would have e-mails galore, and really I didn't.
10:59:08 It was almost similar to the domestic partner registry.
10:59:12 There wasn't a whole lot of opposition from the public, from
10:59:17 our constituents, from the people who live in the City of
10:59:20 Tampa or even in the county, you know, in Hillsborough or
10:59:24 I heard from a couple of people who do not even reside, I
10:59:29 don't believe, in the State of Florida.
10:59:31 So it was very interesting to me that the folks who live
10:59:38 here felt that it was a good and wise decision to ask that
10:59:45 people with concealed weapons permits leave their weapons
10:59:51 And this is of course anecdotally.
10:59:55 I have spoken to several of friends, associates, colleagues,
10:59:58 people that I have met sometimes for the first time at
11:00:03 events who admitted that they are admit -- concealed weapons
11:00:07 holders and felt it was prudent decision, that they did not
11:00:10 mind being asked to leave their weapons at home during the
11:00:14 four days of the RNC.
11:00:16 So I think that says a lot about the people who live in the
11:00:21 city and the people who live in the county, and those that
11:00:24 are responsible weapons owners, and realize the weight and
11:00:32 the potential conflict that would arise during those four
11:00:37 So with that I'll make the motion that we come back on May
11:00:42 24th, and in between I will craft with the help of the
11:00:49 city attorney and City Council attorney on revisions to the
11:00:54 letter that was crafted to send as we discussed.
11:01:00 >>HARRY COHEN: Do I hear a second?
11:01:06 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I will second it but there's a couple of
11:01:07 members that will not be here the 24th.
11:01:12 They already notified they are not going to be here the
11:01:15 >>LISA MONTELIONE: If they have any concerns about the
11:01:18 language of the letter they can communicate with the council
11:01:24 >>YVONNE CAPIN: As long as the vote is unanimous, then the
11:01:25 decision to everyone sign it --
11:01:30 >>HARRY COHEN: I don't think everyone K sign fountain
11:01:33 everyone is not here but we can put in the body of the let
11:01:36 that's right vote was unanimous, if it is.
11:01:40 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
11:01:41 Thank you.
11:01:41 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
11:01:43 >>HARRY COHEN: Any further discussion?
11:01:44 We have a motion on the floor from Councilwoman Montelione,
11:01:47 seconded by Councilwoman Capin.
11:01:49 All those in favor please signify by saying aye.
11:01:53 Okay, motion passes unanimously.
11:01:55 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Do we need a time on that to bring that
11:01:59 back at 10 a.m.?
11:02:10 And if I may, may I bring up one other related item?
11:02:13 >>HARRY COHEN: Go ahead.
11:02:14 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I would like to have a staff report come
11:02:20 back at our next regular meeting which will be on June
11:02:24 7th at 9:00 a.m., or under staff reports which is
11:02:29 10 a.m., I'm sorry, from the Parks Department, as well as
11:02:33 from fire rescue on what -- and this is something I think
11:02:39 originally brought up by Councilwoman Capin a few weeks ago
11:02:42 on what respite services, first aid stations, those kinds of
11:02:57 comfort provisions and medical provisions would be provided.
11:03:01 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I'll second that.
11:03:07 >>HARRY COHEN: Any further discussion?
11:03:10 We have a motion by Councilwoman Montelione, seconded by
11:03:12 Councilman Suarez.
11:03:13 All those in favor?
11:03:15 Motion passes.
11:03:16 >>LISA MONTELIONE: That you can for that indulgence.
11:03:18 >>HARRY COHEN: We have two scheduled 9:30 a.m. time certain
11:03:22 public hearings.
11:03:25 The first one is item number 52.
11:03:27 Can I please have a motion to open the public hearing?
11:03:32 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I think we have already opened 52.
11:03:34 >>HARRY COHEN: Then we are going to move to item number 52.
11:03:42 Legal department.
11:03:43 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
11:03:49 As I told City Council two weeks ago this ordinance will
11:03:51 allow all establishments that are licensed by the state for
11:03:55 alcoholic beverages to stay open to your previously adopted
11:04:01 chapter 3 which would be from 3 a.m. except on Saturday
11:04:07 which is 11 a.m. to 3 a.m.
11:04:09 >>HARRY COHEN: Any questions from council members?
11:04:13 Is there anyone in the public who would like to speak on
11:04:16 item number 52?
11:04:18 Seeing no one, can I have a motion?
11:04:22 >> Motion to close.
11:04:23 >> Second.
11:04:23 >> Motion to close by Councilman Suarez, seconded by
11:04:26 Councilwoman Montelione.
11:04:27 All those in favor?
11:04:31 Ms. Capin, would you please take item number 52?
11:04:45 >>YVONNE CAPIN: An ordinance being presented for second
11:04:47 reading and adoption, a temporary ordinance of the city of
11:04:51 Tampa, Florida regulating the hours of operation for
11:04:53 establishments that are licensed by the State of Florida to
11:04:57 sell alcoholic beverages, providing for severability,
11:05:01 providing an effective date, providing for expiration date.
11:05:04 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
11:05:06 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion by Councilwoman Capin,
11:05:08 seconded by Councilman Suarez.
11:05:10 This is a recorded vote.
11:05:11 Please vote and record.
11:05:12 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Reddick, Mulhern and
11:05:22 Miranda being absent at vote.
11:05:24 >>HARRY COHEN: Item number 53 is a continued public
11:05:33 I need a motion to open the public hearing.
11:05:37 Motion by Councilwoman Montelione, seconded by Councilman
11:05:40 All those in favor?
11:05:44 >>HARRY COHEN: Anyone who is prepared to speak on item
11:05:56 number 53, please stand to be sworn.
11:05:58 (Oath administered by Clerk)
11:06:10 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
11:06:11 Item number 53 is a second reading.
11:06:15 The site plans have been certified and provided to the
11:06:17 I am available if there are any questions.
11:06:19 Thank you.
11:06:19 >>HARRY COHEN: Are there any questions from council
11:06:22 Is there anyone in the public who would like to speak on
11:06:25 item number 53?
11:06:28 Seeing no one --
11:06:30 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Move to close.
11:06:33 >>FRANK REDDICK: Second.
11:06:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seconded by Councilman Reddick.
11:06:37 All those in favor?
11:06:42 We will go to item number 53.
11:06:44 Can you please take that, Mr. Suarez?
11:06:46 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair.
11:06:49 I present an ordinance presented for second reading and
11:06:51 adoption, an ordinance providing a special use permit S 2
11:06:54 approving a place of religious assembly in an RM-16
11:06:58 residential multifamily zoning district in the general
11:07:00 vicinity of 2921 Cord Street and 2924 North Carioca street
11:07:08 in the city of Tampa, Florida, and as more particularly
11:07:10 described in section 1 here, providing an effective date.
11:07:22 >>HARRY COHEN: Seconded by Councilman Reddick. This is a
11:07:22 recorded vote.
11:07:24 Please vote and record.
11:07:25 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent at
11:07:30 >>HARRY COHEN: We are going to move for a moment from staff
11:07:39 reports and take some of the public hearings that are at the
11:07:41 end of the agenda because there have been people waiting
11:07:42 here for some time.
11:07:44 To begin with, items number 65, 66 -- well, let me take
11:07:55 number 65 and 66 first.
11:07:58 Both of those have been continued.
11:08:02 So I think I just need a motion to continue both items to a
11:08:06 date certain.
11:08:07 >> So moved.
11:08:09 >> Second.
11:08:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Excuse me, Mr. Chairman, these items
11:08:12 cannot be heard on the agenda.
11:08:15 They do have to be renoticed.
11:08:17 So the appropriate motion would be to remove these from the
11:08:20 agenda and to reschedule these to June 28th, 2012, at
11:08:26 10:30 a.m. and have them renoticed.
11:08:28 >>HARRY COHEN: Do we need a separate motion on each?
11:08:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, separate motion on each, please.
11:08:35 >>HARRY COHEN: Can I have a motion to that effect on item
11:08:38 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I will move 65 be removed from the agenda
11:08:41 and moved to June 28, 2012 at 10:30 a.m. and renoticed.
11:08:45 >>HARRY COHEN: Seconded by Councilwoman Capin on a very
11:08:50 close vote with Councilwoman Montelione.
11:08:54 All those in favor?
11:08:58 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Chair, had I would like to remove item 66,
11:09:03 to be reheard on -- or rescheduled for June 28th at
11:09:08 10:30 a.m. and renoticed.
11:09:09 >> We have a motion by Councilman Suarez, seconded by
11:09:13 Councilwoman Mulhern.
11:09:15 All in favor?
11:09:17 And then finally, we need a motion on item number 67 to move
11:09:23 to the end of October.
11:09:27 Motion by Councilwoman Montelione, second by Councilman
11:09:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Forgive me, but if that motion could be to
11:09:36 remove it from the agenda and to set it for a date and time
11:09:38 certain, because it will have to be noticed as a public
11:09:42 hearing. So my recommendation would be October 18th
11:09:46 at --
11:09:54 >> Mo of to set the public hearing for October 18th at
11:09:59 10:30 a.m.
11:10:00 >>FRANK REDDICK: Second.
11:10:03 >>HARRY COHEN: All those in favor?
11:10:07 We are now going to move on to item 62, 63 and 64.
11:10:15 Which are public hearings.
11:10:17 We will need a motion to open the public hearing.
11:10:20 These are quasi-judicial so anyone here on those items will
11:10:24 need to be sworn prior to offering testimony.
11:10:27 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Motion to open public hearings 62
11:10:34 through 64.
11:10:34 >>HARRY COHEN: Motion by Councilwoman Montelione, seconded
11:10:38 by Councilwoman Mulhern.
11:10:40 All those in favor?
11:11:03 Item number 62.
11:11:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is there anybody that's going to speak on
11:11:17 62, of 3 and 64?
11:11:19 Would you stand and be sworn?
11:11:32 Mr. Chairman, I ask that all written communication which has
11:11:35 been available for public inspection in City Council's
11:11:38 office be received and filed into the record prior to taking
11:11:41 action today by motion, please.
11:11:48 >>YVONNE CAPIN: So moved.
11:11:49 >>HARRY COHEN: Motion by Councilwoman Capin, second by
11:11:54 Councilwoman Mulhern.
11:11:56 All those in favor?
11:11:59 Thank you.
11:11:59 >> Application V-12-164.
11:12:21 You should have been having some aerials and some changes,
11:12:24 small changes required for second reading.
11:12:27 The property address is 611 north -- North Franklin Street,
11:12:39 the recommendation by the development review committee has
11:12:42 reviewed the application and find it consistent with the
11:12:44 applicable City of Tampa land development regulations.
11:12:47 Minor site plan modification will be required between first
11:12:50 and second reading, and you have those in your possession.
11:12:55 TBD 1, central business district 1, proposed special use is
11:13:00 bare, wine, liquor sales in association with large venue,
11:13:04 consumption on premises only.
11:13:06 Asking for two waivers to reduce the requirement for
11:13:09 distance separation from 250 feet to 80 feet.
11:13:13 Further establishments serving alcohol and to reduce
11:13:16 requirement on distance separation from 250 feet to zero
11:13:23 According to the application submitted, the site is occupied
11:13:27 by two-story building and a seven-story building and a
11:13:30 24-story office building.
11:13:32 The department garage.
11:13:35 The proposed sales area encompasses both floors of the two
11:13:39 story office building.
11:13:40 The total area contains approximately 9010 square feet and
11:13:46 adjacent parking garage containing 472 parking spaces and
11:13:51 satisfies the required parking of 120 spaces.
11:13:58 The small site modifications will be to remove the waiver
11:14:03 required for uses is not required because of the corridor
11:14:07 location of the parcel.
11:14:09 And amend the block reading, the applicable site plan to
11:14:15 read on premises only associated with large venues.
11:14:19 Small corrections.
11:14:22 Let me show you pictures of where this is located.
11:14:28 The subject building in question right here.
11:15:02 The location on Twiggs Avenue here.
11:15:05 Subject property right here.
11:15:12 This will be right here.
11:15:16 Staff finds it consistent.
11:15:18 >> Officer Miller from City of Tampa police department.
11:15:25 City of Tampa police department has no objection.
11:15:32 >> My name is Mark Bentley, 201 North Franklin, Tampa,
11:16:20 >>MARY MULHERN: I represent the Wilson company limited, 58.
11:16:24 They are the owners of the subject property located at the
11:16:26 northeast corner of Twiggs and Franklin Street.
11:16:28 What I presented are some photographs of the now existing
11:16:31 and the photo published in 1925 of the historic exchange
11:16:37 bank building, special use permit, to allow for the sale of
11:16:41 beer, wine and liquor on premises only in connection with a
11:16:44 place of assembly or special events facility and/or
11:16:50 Staff indicates that the application meets not only the
11:16:52 general standard set forth in your code but the specific
11:16:55 standards to qualify for a special use permit 2.
11:17:00 So I would respectfully request that you approve this
11:17:03 Thank you.
11:17:04 >>HARRY COHEN: Questions from council members?
11:17:10 Is there anyone in the public that wishes to address council
11:17:13 regarding item number 62?
11:17:14 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move to close.
11:17:18 >> Second.
11:17:19 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion to close by Mr. Reddick,
11:17:22 seconded by Mrs. Mulhern.
11:17:24 All in favor?
11:17:31 Ms. Mulhern, can you take item number 62?
11:17:34 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance approving a special use
11:17:40 permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, large venue on
11:17:44 premises only and making lawful the sale of beverages
11:17:47 regardless of alcoholic content, beer wine and liquor on
11:17:50 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 611
11:17:54 through 655 North Franklin street, unit 655, Tampa, Florida
11:17:59 more particularly described in section 2 imposing certain
11:18:02 conditions based upon the location of the property, that all
11:18:06 ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict are repealed,
11:18:09 providing an effective date.
11:18:09 >> Second.
11:18:13 >>HARRY COHEN: Seconded by Councilman Suarez.
11:18:16 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
11:18:21 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda and Montelione
11:18:25 being absent at vote.
11:18:26 Second reading of the ordinance will be held June 7th at
11:18:29 9:30 a.m.
11:18:30 >> Revision to the written report?
11:18:37 >>HARRY COHEN: As part of the motion to add the -- between
11:18:42 first and second reading.
11:18:44 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Do I need to read it again?
11:18:50 Amend the motion to add the revision sheet for V-12-164.
11:18:58 >>HARRY COHEN: Motion by Mrs. Mulhern, second by Mr.
11:19:08 Suarez. All in favor? Okay.
11:19:10 Item number 63.
11:19:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Before you begin item 63, I believe
11:19:31 Councilwoman Capin had a question that I would like to be
11:19:35 able to answer on the record.
11:19:38 Councilwoman, I believe that you wished to inquire.
11:19:44 My understanding is there is a business relationship with
11:19:50 this particular company applying for the petition?
11:19:52 >> Correct.
11:19:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: My question to you is, does this
11:19:56 particular item, this particular petition, will that benefit
11:20:02 or serve as a detriment to your nephew directly as a result
11:20:07 of your vote today?
11:20:09 >>YVONNE CAPIN: No, it will not.
11:20:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And based on the relationship that you
11:20:14 know that he may have with this company, does that affect
11:20:16 your ability to render a fair and impartial verdict?
11:20:19 Will you be able to do so?
11:20:22 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
11:20:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It is my legal opinion under Florida law
11:20:25 you are required to participate and vote on this matter.
11:20:28 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
11:20:29 >> Application V-12-178, applicant is Cru Cellars LLC.
11:20:43 I hand you aerials and you received copies of letters,
11:20:48 opposition regarding this application.
11:20:49 And I have also given you some revision to the site plan.
11:20:54 Recommendation, the development review committee reviewed
11:20:57 the application finds it inconsistent with the applicable
11:20:59 City of Tampa land development regulations of the current
11:21:02 zoning is CG and CI, commercial general and commercial
11:21:08 Proposed special use request is a alcohol and beverage
11:21:12 sales, beer and wine consumption on premises and packaged
11:21:15 sales off premises, consumption off premises for small
11:21:20 They are requesting five waivers regarding this application.
11:21:24 Reduce the required minimum distance separation from 250
11:21:27 fate to 178 fate, from selling alcoholic beverages, reduce
11:21:34 required minimum distance from 25 fate to .6 feet for
11:21:38 residential uses.
11:21:39 The third one is to reduce the required parking from 68
11:21:42 spaces to 28 spaces.
11:21:46 Increase the percentage of compact parking spaces from 65 to
11:21:50 And last one to allow reduction of aisle width from 28 to --
11:21:56 to 19 feet for maneuvering.
11:21:59 According to the application submitted the site plan is
11:22:01 occupied, existing structure of 7061 square feet which is
11:22:06 currently approved for beer and wine sales on premises,
11:22:10 consumption, package sales, off premises.
11:22:15 Proposes to add 467 feet of outdoor area with sales of beer
11:22:18 and wine sales on the premises construction on premises
11:22:22 consumption, package sales for a total area square feet of
11:22:26 7,528 square feet.
11:22:29 Subject structure is occupied by three distinct uses,
11:22:34 pharmacy and fad store service.
11:22:36 The other on-site structure occupied with personal services
11:22:40 medical office contains 2,112 square feet and is not
11:22:44 included in the AB sales area boundary that you are voting
11:22:48 The site currently utilizes surface parking which does not
11:22:52 meet current required ratio for parking spaces.
11:22:55 The applicant is proposing to reduce required spaces from 68
11:22:57 to 28.
11:22:59 The applicant has obtained design exception for the required
11:23:03 residential buffer, for residential use adjacent to the use.
11:23:09 Land development find it basically inconsistent due to the
11:23:14 increasing intensity that has been established and
11:23:17 requirement to the reduction of off-site parking from 68 to
11:23:21 28 spaces, does not currently comply with standards.
11:23:26 And in your staff report you see section 27-269,
11:23:31 consideration shall be given to adverse effects on adjoining
11:23:35 and nearby properties, the area, neighborhood or city for
11:23:39 use or occupancy as proposed, for construction, design,
11:23:45 character of scale and manner of operations.
11:23:48 The site is located on small collector roadway that is in
11:23:52 close proximity to residential uses. The request is 59%
11:23:56 reduction in parking from 68 to 28 spaces can lead to
11:24:01 extensive intrusion for parking and commercial purposes on
11:24:05 residential streets.
11:24:06 Which would be incompatible.
11:24:08 Furthermore, the current approval limits, hours of operation
11:24:13 to 10:00 p.m. Monday through Sunday, the current request
11:24:18 extends the sales to 2 a.m.
11:24:21 Transportation finds it inconsistent due to the excessive
11:24:24 reduction of required parking from 68 to 28 feet.
11:24:33 There's a few small requirements to be made to the site plan
11:24:37 before second reading.
11:24:38 Let me show you exactly where this is establishment is
11:24:47 Here is the location just south of Bay to Bay, and this is
11:24:53 Enclosures views.
11:25:02 Looking from northwest.
11:25:03 Here is the subject building that wraps around this separate
11:25:07 building right here that's not in question for this
11:25:13 This is a view to the southeast.
11:25:15 This is MacDill Avenue here.
11:25:16 And this is the small parking area that they use currently.
11:25:26 This is MacDill.
11:25:28 Bay to Bay.
11:25:29 Here is an adjacent residential unit on the north side just
11:25:32 to the east of the parking lot area.
11:25:38 Here is a residential structure on the other side of the
11:25:40 And here is the subject property here.
11:25:43 And this is the north side.
11:25:48 >> Officer Don Miller, city much the police department.
11:26:06 Police department has no objection.
11:26:07 >>HARRY COHEN: Petitioner?
11:26:15 >> David Singer with Holland and Knight.
11:26:35 To address the staff report, we met with staff.
11:26:42 We will have notice between first and second reading.
11:26:44 We have no problem to add to the site plan.
11:26:46 When you read the staff report you will note that the
11:26:48 finding is inconsistent comes because there are not 68
11:26:53 parking spaces available.
11:26:56 As you know, it would not be physically possible to comply
11:26:59 with 68 parking spaces almost anywhere in South Tampa
11:27:03 without building a large parking garage.
11:27:05 And that's certainly true on MacDill between Kennedy and
11:27:08 Bay to Bay.
11:27:09 The existing parking as it is is one of the largest free
11:27:12 standing parking lots in existence between MacDill and
11:27:16 Kennedy and Bay to Bay, and the 28 spaces we worked with
11:27:21 staff to ensure that handicapped spaces are available and up
11:27:24 to code requirement.
11:27:26 Trash enclosures and we complied with solid waste
11:27:30 requirements for the enclosures.
11:27:32 Also, a note, there used to be -- and this changed last
11:27:36 week -- a yogurt shop directly across the street that had
11:27:41 access to the parking lot, and the majority of their busiest
11:27:45 time was Wednesday and Thursday night.
11:27:48 And caused overflow into the residential.
11:27:53 They have since moved and they is no longer access other
11:27:57 than for the Cru Cellar for that lot or those spaces.
11:28:04 Cru Cellars has been in existence for less than two years
11:28:08 and I think it's important to discuss what this application
11:28:10 does not include.
11:28:14 As well as what we are asking for.
11:28:15 This application does not ask for a change of use.
11:28:21 It's already in existence.
11:28:23 This application does not ask for the ability to serve
11:28:27 And I think that's an important point.
11:28:29 This is not part of the characters or the business of Cru
11:28:35 They moved here in late 2009 from Chicago where Torrey was
11:28:42 the top sales person for a safety engineering company.
11:28:46 Jen was the wine director at the Intercontinental Hotel on
11:28:49 Michigan Avenue in the heart of the Magnificent Mile.
11:28:53 They shared a dream, everything never been here before,
11:28:58 visited Tampa to explore our community.
11:29:00 They subsequently quit their jobs and moved here and
11:29:03 invested their savings in pursuing their dream.
11:29:06 After a year of extremely difficult work where they were the
11:29:10 sole owners and employees they were able to hire and train a
11:29:13 young woman who recently achieved the distinction of
11:29:15 becoming a master sommelier as well as opening a kitchen
11:29:25 Small vintage wines and champagnes that are hard to find in
11:29:29 retail establishments.
11:29:30 They created a unique space in Tampa.
11:29:32 There is really nothing else like Cru Cellars in all of
11:29:35 Tampa Bay.
11:29:37 They have a 500 square foot wine bar with is the tools
11:29:41 around the actual bar.
11:29:42 The 467 square foot patio would be enclosed on three sides
11:29:48 by 10-foot walls, and which will be landscaped.
11:29:51 And it will be able to fit between six and seven additional
11:29:58 Cru Cellars is for professional and corporate and charitable
11:30:05 small intimate gatherings.
11:30:08 It includes the Junior League, Merrill Lynch, Make-A-Wish
11:30:12 Foundation, University of Tampa Board, bridal showers, book
11:30:18 clubs, and teaching classes.
11:30:21 Cru Cellars has enjoyed enough success in an extremely
11:30:26 difficult economy that they are prepared to take a small
11:30:28 step forward in terms of growth.
11:30:33 The professional clientele are looking for a place where he
11:30:37 can this stay there.
11:30:40 There is no where in Tampa currently where you can go after
11:30:43 a show at the Straz center, a movie at Westshore, or a
11:30:47 dinner in South Tampa to enjoy a Highland glass of wine
11:30:52 selected for you by a master sommelier and have a quiet
11:30:56 conversation with your spouse, your significant other or
11:30:58 your friends.
11:30:59 And there is no where in Tampa where a professional can
11:31:01 bring a client after a corporate dinner to be discuss
11:31:04 business in a small, quiet atmosphere.
11:31:09 People want to have a place to have this opportunity after
11:31:11 10 p.m.
11:31:12 Small upscale events and a focus on high end wine with small
11:31:16 plates with an intense dedication to customer service have
11:31:18 made Cru Cellars a staple in Tampa and several brought to my
11:31:24 attention that residential listings for the homes in the
11:31:27 neighborhood now sometimes include a description that the
11:31:29 home is within walking distance of Cru Cellars.
11:31:32 I will now enter into the record and give to you copies of
11:31:35 200 petition signatures in favor of this application as well
11:31:39 as eight letters in support of the application from people
11:31:42 who could not be here today to speak with you.
11:31:56 Some snippets from these letters include: I am writing to
11:32:02 obtain hours for a patio. Cru Cellars has a very positive
11:32:09 I see first hand how it brings a sense of community to a
11:32:12 neighborhood where neighbors, business people and wine
11:32:15 enthusiasts gather and attend wine classes.
11:32:17 Their clientele is sophisticated and enjoys quiet wine and
11:32:22 great food.
11:32:23 They are the only wine bar of the type in Tampa and its
11:32:26 popularity among the community.
11:32:32 They have invested a great deal of time and money to bring
11:32:35 to South Tampa something that is unique and special.
11:32:37 I hope you show your appreciation and support by approving
11:32:40 your request.
11:32:41 The owner of fruit of the vine organics.
11:32:43 Dear City Council: We are writing to you in regards to Cru
11:32:48 Cellars and their request to stay open a little later and
11:32:50 add an outdoor patio, establishments are vital such as our
11:32:55 neighborhood to grow and appeal.
11:32:56 We chose to live in this area because of the small
11:32:58 businesses as opposed to the South Howard strip of bar after
11:33:03 bar, Palma Ceia restaurants and Cru Cellars in particular
11:33:09 are for adults looking for a civilized evening with friends
11:33:12 and neighbors.
11:33:13 It is inspiring in these economic times a small business
11:33:17 cannot only open but thrive. We look forward to spending
11:33:21 time with friends for a little longer and enjoying the
11:33:23 Florida weather on the outdoor patio. Sincerely, Dr. and
11:33:27 Mrs. Courtney Hitog.
11:33:30 >> Tampa Bay is fortunate to have a unique wine shop and
11:33:34 tasting room that is hard to find outside of major
11:33:36 metropolitan cities.
11:33:37 The locals love it and seep the value of small business for
11:33:39 the betterment of our community.
11:33:41 I hope the City Council will support the new business and
11:33:46 make simple changes in order to meet the changing needs of
11:33:49 its commerce.
11:33:50 I know first hand it is extremely difficult to grow a
11:33:52 business during a time when most people aren't spending what
11:33:56 they used to.
11:33:57 I find it encouraging that a neighborhood shop is so
11:33:59 determined to take the next step to see if its business
11:34:03 When I was getting married last year my wedding shower was
11:34:05 hosted at Cru Cellars.
11:34:08 Sincerely, Andrea Lumby.
11:34:12 >> Dear City Council, this has brought an added dimension to
11:34:15 the MacDill area.
11:34:17 It is a integral part of the business community and
11:34:19 represents what is right about our city.
11:34:21 The small neighborhood oriented business.
11:34:24 By approving this petition, City Council has the opportunity
11:34:26 to assist the growth of a small locally owned business.
11:34:31 This type of business will grow our local economy and help
11:34:34 Tampa reemerge from the economic crisis.
11:34:37 Dear discount, I am a home owner that lives a couple blocks
11:34:40 from MacDill Avenue and I believe CRUs presence in the
11:34:44 neighborhood is a tremendous asset.
11:34:45 Venues such as Cru add to the appeal of the neighborhood.
11:34:49 There is no down side to the approval of the request.
11:34:51 They cater to a responsible, mature clientele, and their
11:34:55 patio will certainly be entirely enclosed where no noise
11:35:01 will be a factor.
11:35:01 I hope City Council will help the small business continue
11:35:04 the positive investment in our neighborhoods.
11:35:06 Signed Matthew Mitchell, 3218 Barcelona.
11:35:09 >> Dear City Council, as a resident and homeowner in the
11:35:12 Palma Ceia neighborhood of South Tampa the development is
11:35:16 for small independent businesses that enhance our community
11:35:19 is a matter of great importance to me.
11:35:19 I strongly believe our local government should encourage the
11:35:22 existence of small business like Cru Cellars and support the
11:35:26 growth of this business.
11:35:27 Owners like Jen and Torrey have shown a commitment to
11:35:31 providing a high-quality product and experience to their
11:35:32 patrons and continue to make significant investments in our
11:35:36 The business and business management style is the type I
11:35:39 hope to see flourish in the neighborhood.
11:35:42 Finally, Dear City Council: As a resident of South Tampa in
11:35:45 close proximity to Cru Cellars, I fully support the request
11:35:52 for extended hours and outside seating. Independently owned
11:35:52 business like Cru and the unique experience it offers
11:35:54 residents in the community help establish a sophisticated
11:35:57 identity to our neighborhood.
11:36:05 There is not going to be a business that pleases everyone.
11:36:11 And I believe you will hear from some residents that may not
11:36:14 support this application to its fullest extent.
11:36:18 As you know, you cannot please all of the people all of the
11:36:25 But in this application, in this location, in this economy,
11:36:30 with this business model, we ask that you support local
11:36:35 We ask that you support success.
11:36:39 We ask that you support growth.
11:36:41 We ask that you reward the investment that two young people
11:36:45 made when they took a leap of faith and quit their job and
11:36:48 moved to our community.
11:36:50 We ask that you invest in the success of Cru Cellars, as Cru
11:36:55 Cellars has invested in Tampa and we ask that you pass A
11:37:08 prove the application.
11:37:08 >>HARRY COHEN: Is there anyone from the public that would
11:37:11 like to address council on this matter?
11:37:13 >> My name is Ken Stoltenberg, 3211 Grenada Street West, and
11:37:32 have done so since early 1998.
11:37:36 When I moved into Palma Ceia 14 years ago, I believe there
11:37:38 was one restaurant, Beef O'Brady's, and about 10 rug shops.
11:37:41 Now we have 10 or 11 restaurants.
11:37:44 Generally a positive improvement.
11:37:47 I have visited the Cru Cellars frequently.
11:37:51 It's a great addition to the neighborhood.
11:37:54 Torrey and Jen run a great business.
11:38:03 And all restaurants come in the established commercial
11:38:05 corridor of MacDill and Bay to Bay Avenue.
11:38:10 The commercial corridor has been established for 70 years.
11:38:13 So if you buy a house right next to MacDill or next to
11:38:16 Bay to Bay you are going to have commercial uses.
11:38:19 I live two blocks off of Bay to Bay, approximately two
11:38:23 blocks from this location, and quite frankly I'm thrilled
11:38:26 that we have 10 or 11 local restaurants in the area.
11:38:29 We walk to all of them, my wife and I, and it's exactly what
11:38:32 we signed up for.
11:38:33 I would ask you to support this and make Palma Ceia a better
11:38:37 Thank you.
11:38:37 >> Jonathan Rowe, 2508 West Sunset Drive.
11:38:45 Good morning and thank you for the opportunity to speak this
11:38:47 morning in support of Cru Cellars.
11:38:50 During the campaign, many of you talked about helping small
11:38:55 businesses and today that's exactly what you can do.
11:38:57 CRU is a small business in South Tampa, a place we need more
11:39:02 In difficult times they are interested in investing in our
11:39:05 They are not looking for special treatment, but fair
11:39:07 treatment as compared to other establishments in the area.
11:39:11 They aren't trying to change MacDill but enhance it.
11:39:14 It's not going to be another South Howard.
11:39:19 Not many people who frequent the South Howard area are
11:39:22 interested in -- and more interested in beer.
11:39:27 What CRU is, to have a glass of wine, to reconnect in an
11:39:32 environment where the kids aren't running around.
11:39:35 It's a place to grab a casual glass of wine after going to a
11:39:39 movie and visiting downtown.
11:39:44 CRU is a responsible neighbor in the area.
11:39:46 They should be afforded the ability to expand and invest in
11:39:48 our community the way they want to.
11:39:50 I strongly urge to you support this petition today.
11:39:54 Thank you very much.
11:39:54 >> Ben Kodadek. My wife is in the back and I just moved
11:40:02 into Palma Ceia -- west Santiago.
11:40:10 We have been patrons of CRU since before Jen even opened the
11:40:16 door, knocked on the door, met her, and heard more about
11:40:19 what is going on at that location, and it was going to be a
11:40:25 wine bar.
11:40:26 I think the primary concern that many people have that it's
11:40:30 going to turn into -- we rent the place near South Howard
11:40:35 and it wasn't real family friendly place after about 10 p.m.
11:40:39 The clientele, if you have ever been to CRUs, is a
11:40:43 completely different clientele, upscale, sophisticated
11:40:46 people, who add a lot to the community, and I also think
11:40:50 that CRU will add lots.
11:40:52 A great place for like minded people to gather, it is not a
11:40:59 raucous crowd.
11:41:01 It is a professional crowd, and it's people who want to
11:41:04 spend time together, want to talk, and want to engage with
11:41:07 one another.
11:41:08 So thank you.
11:41:16 >> Laurie Someson, 3906 West Mullen Avenue.
11:41:24 I think there are a lot of people here that claim to be the
11:41:29 first clients since they opened their establishment.
11:41:31 I lived in Tampa since 1979, and what they have opened is a
11:41:36 very Cosmopolitan business.
11:41:38 It's a wonderful place for mature clientele to go and have a
11:41:42 nice glass of wine, sit and talk to your friends.
11:41:46 I have been in there when young couples have come in with
11:41:51 sleeping infants and those children have slept their entire
11:41:54 visits so it is not loud by any means.
11:41:56 It would be nice to go there a little later in the evening
11:41:58 and have it be open a little later.
11:42:01 Jennifer has hosted numerous client events for us, private
11:42:06 parties, and it's problematic for us to have to close at
11:42:10 And so I respectfully ask that you consider this petition.
11:42:15 Thank you.
11:42:15 >> Snow Martin, 3106 -- Court, 33629, and like many of the
11:42:28 other folks I have also been a customer of Jen and Torrey
11:42:32 since they opened the establishment and had lots of -- their
11:42:36 put their heart and soul and own capital into this business
11:42:40 to run something that's unique.
11:42:42 I can't tell you how many new friends, most of them are here
11:42:44 today but they number into the hundreds that will come in
11:42:46 there and get to know each other.
11:42:48 We have met just all kinds of people from young folks with
11:42:51 kids to the older crowd coming in there.
11:42:53 And I think it's probably going to be one of the anchor
11:42:57 businesses in that MacDill Avenue corridor for quite
11:43:02 some time.
11:43:03 It's not going to become a Howard Avenue corridor.
11:43:06 And this could actually be one of the top notch businesses
11:43:08 for many, many years to come and all they need to is keep
11:43:13 the place open a little later and we would hope you would
11:43:15 give them every consideration on that.
11:43:16 >>> Good morning council members.
11:43:22 My name is Jim Ganther, 2011 West Fountain Boulevard in
11:43:28 Parkland Estates.
11:43:30 Two years ago Jen and Torrey moved from the great lake north
11:43:34 to stake a claim in South Tampa and I for one am glad that
11:43:37 they did.
11:43:38 They took over our favorite wine shop, Giampiero's Pick Of
11:43:42 The Vine, and they made it even better.
11:43:45 They added a wine bar in the back.
11:43:47 They kept what we liked best about Giampiero's, a place
11:43:51 where there's real expertise, real value, and real personal
11:43:56 These are the things you get from an owner-operated
11:44:01 And it's why we seek them out.
11:44:03 I can buy my vino from Total Wine, and at times I have.
11:44:08 Sorry, Jen.
11:44:09 But never once has an employee greeted me by name,
11:44:15 remembered what I liked, how much I can afford, and what I
11:44:18 might like to try.
11:44:20 Cru Cellars is that kind of place.
11:44:23 It doesn't have television screens in the walls.
11:44:27 It doesn't have blaring music.
11:44:28 It doesn't have noisy patrons.
11:44:30 We are a quiet bunch.
11:44:34 Jen and Torrey took a store with one full-time employee and
11:44:38 built a business that provides six jobs.
11:44:41 They add to the rich fabric of life in Tampa and contribute
11:44:45 to what makes this a great place to live.
11:44:48 This is precisely the contained of business we should
11:44:51 encourage and support.
11:44:54 I told the Bingham's when they first tack over the shop not
11:44:58 to make a mistake of believing that they were in the wine
11:45:03 Like John before them, their greatest product is community,
11:45:07 for that is what they create and maintain in that small
11:45:11 It's like Cheers in real life, a place where have been knows
11:45:15 your name.
11:45:16 And by creating community within their walls, then they
11:45:20 enhance the larger community beyond.
11:45:22 I stand here today in support of Cru Cellars request for
11:45:27 extended hours.
11:45:28 Additional hours will allow Jen and Torrey to enjoy a better
11:45:32 return on their investment in Tampa and increase tax
11:45:36 revenues the state and county derive from that investment.
11:45:38 It will open up Cru Cellars for private parties and events,
11:45:46 enhance the highest and best use of their property.
11:45:49 Jen and Torrey Bingham have invested in Tampa and Tampa is
11:45:53 better for it.
11:45:54 Today I ask you to return the favor and approve their
11:45:58 Thank you.
11:46:03 >> My name is Mark Sena, 157 Biscayne Avenue in Tampa.
11:46:11 This is the first -- I have lived in Tampa for over 30 years
11:46:14 but this is the first time I have ever come to speak before
11:46:17 City Council.
11:46:23 I'm here actually because my wife and I own a small
11:46:28 apartment complex with seven apartments exactly one block
11:46:31 north of this property, which we bought in 1985.
11:46:37 I have seen this neighborhood in all kinds of conditions.
11:46:40 When we bought our building, it was a wreck, built in 1926.
11:46:46 It was one step above a tenement beings and we invested in
11:46:50 the neighborhood.
11:46:50 We have seen it, improved every single year.
11:46:55 And I am here to speak in favor of this application because
11:46:58 I think this business does exactly what the neighborhood
11:47:03 wants and needs, which is to bring a high quality business
11:47:06 into the neighborhood.
11:47:10 We think what is proposed will continue to enhance the
11:47:12 property value, and the quality of life in the neighborhood.
11:47:19 And to be able to walk out of your home or apartment and
11:47:22 walk down the street and have a glass of wine.
11:47:26 To us, that is something that enhances the neighborhood and
11:47:29 the property values.
11:47:32 We support small businesses.
11:47:34 I would much prefer to buy wine from an independent vendor
11:47:38 than go to a box store.
11:47:40 And I am just thrilled to see this business in the
11:47:44 neighborhood making more investments, as well as others in
11:47:49 the neighborhood.
11:47:49 So I am here to ask you to support this application.
11:47:54 Thank you.
11:48:04 >> I have a couple of things this morning.
11:48:27 One is they are asking to stay open a little later.
11:48:30 Actually they are not asking to stay open a little later.
11:48:33 They are asking to stay open till 2 a.m.
11:48:35 Many of the neighbors have gone up and talked to them.
11:48:38 Oh, my name is David Bayne, 3003 west San Jose which is less
11:48:42 an block away from Cru Cellars.
11:48:45 When anybody has gone up to talk to them they inform them
11:48:48 they want to stay open till 11 p.m. and that's what most of
11:48:50 the neighbors in the general vicinity of thinking.
11:48:56 So got a petition together and I walked the streets with a
11:48:58 petition and asked who wanted to sane it and who was in
11:49:02 opposition, and if I could use the overhead, this is the Cru
11:49:13 This is San Jose.
11:49:15 Everybody on this side of San Jose, whoever was home when I
11:49:19 went there was against Cru Cellars.
11:49:22 I live here.
11:49:23 These two are rentals.
11:49:25 I couldn't get ahold of the owner.
11:49:29 People actually came to me and said they heard there was a
11:49:31 petition and they would like to sign the petition.
11:49:33 I didn't even walk San Carlos.
11:49:35 One of the problems with a couple of people, they said that
11:49:39 Cru Cellars said they only wanted to be open till 11 p.m.,
11:49:44 they didn't know where I came up with 2 a.m.
11:49:47 People really need to check on what's going on.
11:49:50 One of my chief complaints is the parking.
11:49:52 This is what we deal with on a regular basis.
11:49:56 I understand the open storage is gone.
11:49:58 These pictures were taken last Wednesday and Thursday after
11:50:01 the yoga store is gone.
11:50:03 The parking lot is not adequate for what --
11:50:06 >> That's upside down if you could turn it.
11:50:09 Thank you.
11:50:10 >> That is not a parking space.
11:50:17 There's another, same car.
11:50:20 Every Wednesday and Thursday ---Wednesdays and Thursdays we
11:50:25 deal with this.
11:50:26 Here is another one the next day.
11:50:27 I can't remember which one was Wednesday and which was
11:50:32 I had to pull about three feet beyond the stop sign to even
11:50:36 see down the road to tell what was coming the other
11:50:39 This final picture was given to me by one of my neighbors.
11:50:42 I didn't take it.
11:50:43 I got a picture I took on my cell phone of what I deal with.
11:50:47 This is my neighbor's driveway, someone parking up over the
11:50:52 curb, blocking his driveway.
11:50:54 That's what we deal with on a regular basis.
11:50:56 I heard someone just a minute ago say I don't know why
11:50:59 anybody would object to anything like this.
11:51:02 I'm sorry, I don't want -- whether it's wine, beer or
11:51:06 whatever drink at the end of my block at 1:30 or 2 a.m.
11:51:10 If they want to stay open till 11 p.m., why didn't they
11:51:13 apply to 11 p.m.?
11:51:14 Why did they tell everybody that's what they wanted?
11:51:18 If they leaf what are we stuck with?
11:51:20 We can have red dog with a 2 a.m. bar.
11:51:23 I respectfully ask that you deny.
11:51:29 >> My name is Dave Olive, 3004 West Aquila street in Tampa,
11:51:44 it's in the neighborhood here.
11:51:46 I emailed some of you today with what I thought was an
11:51:50 agreement between some of the neighbors and the business
11:51:52 A number of us met with the CRU wine cellar on Mother's Day,
11:51:58 and we understood after that meeting, the attorney talked
11:52:02 back to us and suggested that the hours that they would be
11:52:05 in operation would be on Sunday from 10, Sunday an Monday
11:52:09 10, Tuesday Wednesday Thursday 11, and Friday Saturday my
11:52:15 We it -- it seemed to be a reasonable compromise.
11:52:19 I don't want to see the area turn into a Howard Avenue as
11:52:24 When I was in college it was easy at the end of the night
11:52:26 to, if we ran out of bare all we had to do was send somebody
11:52:31 out to get more beer.
11:52:32 People that were there drinking, they would come up with
11:52:36 money for additional beer.
11:52:37 I don't think it's very hard to give people who are drinking
11:52:40 to say, yeah, we want to drink some more.
11:52:42 And the customers that they have, that's what they have done
11:52:46 in this petition.
11:52:47 We want to drink some more, which is fine.
11:52:49 I can see another hour.
11:52:52 But my understanding is many of us in these petitions don't
11:52:56 live in the area.
11:52:58 And what I think you need to do concerning this particular
11:53:00 request is to understand that there's a difference between
11:53:04 customers approved, which I have been one in the past, and I
11:53:08 have friends that go there as well.
11:53:09 There's a difference between those people and the people
11:53:12 that actually live in the area.
11:53:14 From what I understand the people that live in the area were
11:53:17 already under the impression that there would be approval of
11:53:20 the zoning but with moderated hours, and in speaking with
11:53:24 the petitioners, that's not really the case.
11:53:28 They are still putting a petition forward to go until two in
11:53:31 the morning.
11:53:31 I would like to go there.
11:53:33 I walk up to those businesses all the time.
11:53:37 Beef O'Brady's closes at 10 at night.
11:53:39 They have arranged for parking next door to Salvation Army.
11:53:42 These folks don't have alternate parking spot available to
11:53:45 them because the auto dealer up the street has already made
11:53:49 arrangements with another restaurant for overflow parking
11:53:52 So parking is a problem.
11:53:55 The zoning doesn't follow the good character of these people
11:53:59 who have come here, invested their money, and made -- we are
11:54:04 not talking about them.
11:54:06 We are talking about establishing a zoning precedence for a
11:54:10 piece of property that will go forward when they sell the
11:54:13 business and move to someplace else or maybe they don't.
11:54:17 I hope they don't.
11:54:18 I think they are good people.
11:54:19 And they seem very nice.
11:54:20 That's not the question here before you.
11:54:22 The question is, establishing a zoning appropriate with the
11:54:28 And I believe that by limiting this proposal to those hours
11:54:32 which I thought were already agreed would be a win-win for
11:54:36 So thank you very much.
11:54:37 I support this proposal with the hours as specified, but
11:54:45 2:00, sorry, I have to oppose.
11:54:47 Thank you very much.
11:54:50 >> John Dingfelder, 3006 San Carlos street, approximately a
11:54:58 block from this proposed establishment.
11:55:00 I am here on behalf of myself individually as well as my
11:55:07 Let me talk about the person who spoke today.
11:55:10 I can call most of them friends.
11:55:12 But Jim lives about 20 blocks away.
11:55:18 Johnson mentioned sunset which again is over in that
11:55:21 direction necessary Swann.
11:55:24 I can go on and on but the bottom line, I think the only one
11:55:27 who lives close.
11:55:31 Then if you look at that list it's the typical customer
11:55:35 Sure, they want to keep the place open.
11:55:37 It's a nice little place I.want to keep it open take but not
11:55:39 under the conditions that they are proposing.
11:55:42 Most customers, I only saw one out of the 200 names that Mr.
11:55:45 Singer proposed to you that live anywhere within five or ten
11:55:50 blocks of this establishment.
11:55:51 Most of them are elsewhere.
11:55:54 Let me speak to this.
11:55:55 The bottom line is that this is an expansion of two things,
11:55:59 When they bought the business, there was expressly a 10 p.m.
11:56:03 limitation on it.
11:56:04 It used to be Giampiero's wine market.
11:56:08 It was pretty much the same thing.
11:56:10 They busted out some walls.
11:56:12 It's great.
11:56:12 They are doing a better job.
11:56:14 But the bottom line is, that's what it was previously.
11:56:16 It was 10 p.m.
11:56:18 And the reason it was 10 p.m. is because when he came in for
11:56:20 some changes in his wet zone we said great, we love a little
11:56:25 wine shop.
11:56:26 10 p.m. because that's what a neighborhood is all about.
11:56:28 It's not 2 a.m.
11:56:29 It's not even about midnight.
11:56:32 Because I ran into a friend of mine in this building today
11:56:35 and he said he couldn't speak to this.
11:56:37 But I told him about it.
11:56:38 And he lives like four blocks away.
11:56:40 And he said no way, look what could happen to Howard Avenue.
11:56:44 And it doesn't happen just on one zoning.
11:56:46 It happens incrementally.
11:56:48 Because once this got approved with 2 a.m. or even midnight,
11:56:53 then the restaurant by my house which is brand new, they are
11:56:58 going to come in and point to them and they are going to
11:57:00 say, well, we want 2 a.m. or we want midnight.
11:57:03 Excuse me.
11:57:05 11 a.m. is the absolute way the neighborhood should be
11:57:09 Right now they have 10.
11:57:10 If they want to go to 11 on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday,
11:57:15 Saturday, I think we can all live with.
11:57:17 That and we have actually told them that.
11:57:19 We went to spend an hour with them on mother's day to meet
11:57:22 with them and talk to them about a reasonable compromise for
11:57:25 our neighborhood.
11:57:26 And that's what it was.
11:57:28 You have a big problem now on a rezoning that you approved
11:57:31 in January 19th.
11:57:33 I am going to put in the record a letter from Andrea degino
11:57:40 about the patio. The patio was approved with unlimited
11:57:43 zoning further up MacDill, and now the patio has parking
11:57:47 problems, the patio has all types of issues.
11:57:51 I'll send this up to you in a second.
11:57:53 The bottom line is three things.
11:57:55 And I know the buzzer is going to go off in a second.
11:57:58 (Bell sounds)
11:58:00 If I can be indulged for 30 seconds, Mr. Chairman.
11:58:02 >>HARRY COHEN: Please wrap it up.
11:58:06 >> I will wrap it up.
11:58:08 The zoning stay was the property.
11:58:11 These are the most wonderful people going, but it doesn't
11:58:15 matter because if they sell this business tomorrow or five
11:58:18 years from now, now we have a wet zoning that can stay open
11:58:23 till 2 a.m.
11:58:24 You can't predict the fought.
11:58:26 If this is a neighborhood with children, and bottom line is,
11:58:34 this is a lounge.
11:58:35 There's no restaurant component to it on the zoning.
11:58:37 >>HARRY COHEN: Okay.
11:58:39 >> They need to conform to the neighborhood and not vice
11:58:43 >>HARRY COHEN: Let me say it is a few minutes till 12:00.
11:58:48 I would like to have a motion to continue.
11:58:51 What's the pleasure of council?
11:58:53 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Motion to continue till 12:30.
11:58:55 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
11:58:59 >>HARRY COHEN: Seconded by Councilman Suarez.
11:59:01 All in favor?
11:59:07 All right.
11:59:08 >> Thank you.
11:59:16 You heard from a number of residents in support, and there
11:59:18 was a question about the location of some of the addresses
11:59:25 of some of the petitioner signatures and I would like to
11:59:27 display for you the map of all of the petition signatures
11:59:34 that are in favor of Cru Cellars.
11:59:37 You will see the blue arrow indicates the location of Cru
11:59:40 The red do it indicates all of the surrounding residences
11:59:43 and homes around Cru Cellars that are in support of this
11:59:47 petition, the suggestion that these are customers who don't
11:59:52 live here as opposed to residents is simply in error, and I
11:59:56 will enter this into the record for your consideration
12:00:06 To suggest that extending the hours for an upscale wine bar
12:00:10 with small plates is tantamount to making the MacDill
12:00:15 corridor equivalent to South Howard is a stretch.
12:00:18 To suggest that the clientele that patronizes South Howard
12:00:23 in the late evening and early morning is somehow going to
12:00:27 find themselves able to get to Cru Cellars, and order
12:00:32 themselves a glass of millau, is simply a stretch of the
12:00:46 One of the other issues is Cru Cellars bought into an
12:00:57 existing wet zoning.
12:01:00 One of the privileges of being in America -- and I know that
12:01:05 Mr. Dingfelder has been up here on another set of matters
12:01:09 talking to you about being American citizens -- if they
12:01:13 avail themselves of the public process, and that is exactly
12:01:16 what Cru Cellars is doing.
12:01:18 They started out small, and they are now able to grow and
12:01:23 avail themselves of the ability to come before you and ask
12:01:26 that you support them in that manner.
12:01:29 I have we've me my colleague from Holland and Knight.
12:01:35 >> Good afternoon.
12:01:43 As much as I love being at City Council I have to say it's
12:01:44 not often that I can assure you I would be here regardless
12:01:48 of whether I was representing Cru Cellars or not.
12:01:52 I would have spoken during the public comment certainly.
12:01:54 Up until about two months ago, I was a couple of blocks away
12:01:59 on Barcelona street and I regularly inform all might have
12:02:04 colleagues in Tampa, and my husband and used to walk there
12:02:10 all the time, and spent Valentine's day there, and we just
12:02:15 adore it and still come back.
12:02:18 And I also just wanted to affirm as David mentioned people
12:02:21 actually -- they mentioned CRU when listing their homes for
12:02:26 When we decided to rent our home on Barcelona street, a
12:02:30 couple who we also see at CRU regularly, they said we have
12:02:33 friends moving from San Diego.
12:02:35 They are a fantastic young professional couple.
12:02:38 They came to visit, and we said go over to CRU, go see what
12:02:43 the neighborhood is like.
12:02:44 And they loved it.
12:02:45 Unfortunately, the timing was bad.
12:02:48 But they actually moved to Tampa and stored their belongings
12:02:52 for us an entire month just to have the security to know
12:02:56 that relocating from California, they would have the benefit
12:02:59 of this gem in Tampa, this neighborhood, and what
12:03:02 MacDill has become.
12:03:03 So I just want to personally voice my very strong support
12:03:08 for everything that CRU is asking for and I hope that you
12:03:11 will give it your consideration.
12:03:14 Thank you.
12:03:14 >>HARRY COHEN: I understand you are the owner of the
12:03:18 building and if you want to say something quickly in their
12:03:21 >> John Reeves.
12:03:24 I own the building at 2508 South MacDill.
12:03:27 Since at what time.
12:03:31 To stabilize that property and it's become pretty stable
12:03:34 recently mainly because of Cru Cellars and the pharmacy.
12:03:45 And it's between the two story building and the existing
12:03:50 L-shaped building, 15 by 15.
12:03:55 The house to the east is 25 feet on the other side of the
12:03:58 L-shaped building.
12:04:01 The enclosed area that you can barely see.
12:04:04 And I think it would enhance the neighborhood.
12:04:11 It's over half a block away from San Jose, and they just
12:04:15 approved that Kristina's.
12:04:19 I think it would be nice to have a little patio there, with
12:04:21 a canopy over it and landscaping, and soundproof completely,
12:04:26 and just a nice clientele.
12:04:28 So I support it.
12:04:29 Thanks very much.
12:04:30 >>HARRY COHEN: Questions from council members?
12:04:32 Councilwoman Capin?
12:04:33 >> I have a question for Mr. Sousa.
12:04:45 Right now there's 7,061 square feet.
12:04:48 How many parking spaces would be required for 7,061 square
12:04:52 >> Particularly use?
12:04:56 Break it down by use?
12:04:59 >> Would you say that the 20 spaces would not be adequate as
12:05:03 it stands right now?
12:05:04 >> Yes, ma'am.
12:05:05 >> So this is triggered because we are requesting to add 467
12:05:12 square feet?
12:05:14 >> That takes in that change of use requirement.
12:05:16 >> But the space as it stands now, 28 spaces, are
12:05:27 conforming -- help me here.
12:05:31 >> They are existing nonconforming.
12:05:32 >> Existing nonconforming.
12:05:34 So I would imagine that as it existed now, it would require
12:05:41 many more than 28 spaces.
12:05:51 Wish we had that number.
12:05:52 But nothing was mentioned about the hours.
12:05:56 Are the hours being asked for 2 a.m.?
12:06:00 It is 2 a.m.?
12:06:01 >> Yes, ma'am.
12:06:02 >> Can I ask you?
12:06:07 This is for the petitioner.
12:06:15 When we are talking about the patio, amplified music, I
12:06:20 didn't see anything on here.
12:06:21 Therefore, that would be --
12:06:25 >> Yes, with 467 square feet and about 6 or 7 tables.
12:06:29 There's not going to be room for amplified music.
12:06:31 There's no plan for amplified music.
12:06:33 We would be happy to stipulate that on the site plan.
12:06:39 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Well, that is one of the issues that I made
12:06:45 extremely clear to the neighbors at one of the
12:06:48 establishments that was mentioned before, and I said you
12:06:51 realize that it is not if it is not part of the condition,
12:06:56 it is a good neighbor policy.
12:06:57 Oh, yes, we.
12:06:58 We are hearing from them now.
12:06:59 So, therefore, that is one of the things that would concern
12:07:02 me is amplified music.
12:07:10 Also, it is one of the largest parking spaces on MacDill
12:07:18 You know, the other thing is that they are not asking for
12:07:21 alcoholic beverage.
12:07:29 And I think that amplified music -- I will let the other
12:07:35 council members ask questions and then I'll come back.
12:07:37 >>MARY MULHERN: Mr. Singer, first of all, this had is in my
12:07:46 I used to live on Aquila.
12:07:48 Now I live north of there on Watrous.
12:07:51 I know the neighborhood really well, but I think you have
12:07:54 got to admit with this map that these little red balloons
12:07:58 actually cover like three blocks, don't they?
12:08:02 >> I trade to get as much detail as we can.
12:08:05 >> You would have been better off to do a little map of the
12:08:08 neighborhood as opposed to the entire city.
12:08:11 But I just wanted to point that out.
12:08:13 And then the question for you, a couple of things.
12:08:23 A lot of the neighbors said that you met with them, and said
12:08:26 that the hours were different.
12:08:31 When did the hours --
12:08:32 >> The application has always been for 2 a.m.
12:08:35 We had a request from one particular neighborhood who is
12:08:39 here today who spoke to meet with the owners of Cru Cellars.
12:08:44 He specifically requested this past Sunday, which was
12:08:47 mother's day, which we obliged him and we met.
12:08:51 There was no agreement that came out of that meeting.
12:08:54 >>MARY MULHERN: People seem to have understood that because
12:08:59 i.e. mails from several different people saying that time of
12:09:06 10 p.m. on Sunday and Monday night, closing 11 p.m. on
12:09:10 Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, midnight for Friday and
12:09:13 Saturday, which is different than what I heard, the midnight
12:09:16 would be an hour later.
12:09:17 But if you don't have copies of these, we have them.
12:09:21 And I don't understand, why do people think that you were
12:09:25 going to have earlier closing?
12:09:28 >> There were four total people at that meeting on Sunday,
12:09:33 three of whom are here.
12:09:34 Jen, Torrey and myself cannot control what they say to their
12:09:38 neighbors when they leave those meetings.
12:09:40 And anything that they might have suggested --
12:09:43 >> Well, who was representing petitioner at the meeting?
12:09:45 >> I was at the meeting.
12:09:46 >> You didn't tell them --
12:09:49 >> No, I did not.
12:09:51 >>MARY MULHERN: Did you tell them at the meeting it was
12:09:52 going to be open till two?
12:09:54 >> Yes, we did.
12:09:55 Affirmatively, yes, we did.
12:09:57 >> And then I would also like to ask, I know the
12:10:02 neighborhood very well, because I used to live right there,
12:10:05 and I still live just a few blocks north.
12:10:08 In your representation that these people were from that made
12:10:12 neighborhood, it doesn't look like to me from especially
12:10:16 from the letters you have, and then the one letter --
12:10:19 because I kind of scanned the addresses on these letters.
12:10:22 And the one letter, the people that live on San Jose, they
12:10:26 start out by saying they have to disclose that they are
12:10:28 representing applicant.
12:10:29 >> That's one letter that I did not read that I entered into
12:10:32 the record, Allen Murphy is a land use director that
12:10:36 routinely works with Holland and Knight.
12:10:38 Schedule if he would submit alert.
12:10:40 I said you may but you must disclose your relationship but I
12:10:43 will not read the letter.
12:10:45 >> That is the one on top with all the arguments.
12:10:51 That's all my questions.
12:10:52 >>LISA MONTELIONE: We often talk about parking, and whether
12:11:05 or not we are going to grant waivers to our parking code.
12:11:10 And going to the envision presentation last night, and one
12:11:18 of the things that was talked about was public realm, public
12:11:20 spaces, and that all parking codes in the City of Tampa is
12:11:26 written as if it were a suburban environment.
12:11:31 And we need to, the suggestion was made, not a formal one,
12:11:37 but a general suggestion was made, and it's come up many
12:11:40 times that our parking code needs to be revised to reflect
12:11:44 the urban nature of the different neighborhoods in the City
12:11:48 of Tampa.
12:11:49 And I know we have exceptions to parking code in Ybor and
12:11:52 Channelside and we have commercial corridors developed, or
12:12:03 redeveloped in this case, for different types of services
12:12:07 and different tapes of establishments.
12:12:09 Parking is going to continually come up.
12:12:11 And it's one that is spoken about on many occasions and this
12:12:15 public transportation and walking needs to be promoted.
12:12:19 And if we continue to build parking lots, parking garages,
12:12:24 and make a drivable experience more comfortable, then we
12:12:30 make walking or public transportation, people are going to
12:12:34 drive their cars.
12:12:35 It's going to be in the nature, jump in the car to go three
12:12:38 or four blocks.
12:12:39 So I'm encouraged to hear that many of the people Mo visit
12:12:43 Cru Cellars are walking to Cru Cellars, because if you are
12:12:48 going to be drinking and you are going to be visiting a shop
12:12:52 that sales alcoholic beverages, walking and public
12:12:56 transportation, in my opinion, is a much better way to go.
12:12:59 And providing parking so that people can drive to and from
12:13:04 alcoholic beverage establishments is not something that I
12:13:07 would want to encourage.
12:13:08 So for that reason, you know, I am definitely in support of
12:13:12 the waiver for the parking requirements.
12:13:17 And one thing I would point out is that some of the
12:13:19 photographs show cars parking in the right-of-way.
12:13:22 Now, I know in any other neighborhood if you park on the
12:13:25 sidewalk, you block somebody's driveway, that person is
12:13:27 going to get on the phone and call TPD and say there's
12:13:30 somebody blocking my driveway or there's somebody parking on
12:13:32 the sidewalk, and TPD will show up and they will ticket the
12:13:35 vehicle and that person will probably not do that again.
12:13:39 So it really is an issue and a problem, and one of the
12:13:44 things I would like to know is how many times has TPD been
12:13:47 called out because somebody whose car was blocked in and
12:13:50 they couldn't get out of the driveway and it was posing a
12:13:54 hazard to the neighborhood.
12:13:56 And again, you are not going to be able to please everyone.
12:14:01 I was out last night with two gentlemen who are looking to
12:14:04 invest in Tampa, and they are from New York City.
12:14:08 And in the conversation we were having with five or six
12:14:12 people that were there, parking came up and we were talking
12:14:15 about the code and saying things, and it was really funny
12:14:20 because like we are from another planet because, you know,
12:14:24 in New York, the idea of driving a car to go out at night to
12:14:28 do anything is foreign to them, you know.
12:14:33 And they were kind of chuckling that we were having this big
12:14:36 discussion over parking and people walking to, you know, to
12:14:41 different venues in their own neighborhood.
12:14:44 So that was an interesting point of view that I got last
12:14:51 So I am going to be in support of this application.
12:14:53 And I hope that others who are going to bring establishments
12:15:01 of this type of this caliber, this intimate setting, will be
12:15:08 welcomed here in Tampa as small business owners.
12:15:12 >> Thank you for your comment and for your support.
12:15:16 And can I add a personal note?
12:15:17 I think this council knows my feelings on public
12:15:20 transportation and public transit.
12:15:21 And thank you for a deletion and encouraging it.
12:15:24 >>HARRY COHEN: Mr. Reddick and Mr. Suarez in, that order.
12:15:28 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
12:15:30 To the petitioner.
12:15:31 Let me just follow up with some questions, some questions
12:15:36 that Councilwoman Mulhern stated.
12:15:43 When I read one of these memos, the owner's attorney agrees
12:15:52 to the reduction in time, and a message to Mr. Dingfelder.
12:16:00 Is that true or not?
12:16:01 >> That is not true.
12:16:02 And like I told -- I can't account for what some people say
12:16:07 to other people, and what they say as fact.
12:16:10 I can tell you affirmatively that agreement was never
12:16:14 >>FRANK REDDICK: I have to go back to communication that I
12:16:21 receive, that I review, gives me the impression that the
12:16:25 neighborhood's understanding that there's an agreement with
12:16:30 someone has not been honest here, because you are denying
12:16:38 it, and some of the neighborhood are saying this tack place,
12:16:43 and then there was an understanding, an agreement.
12:16:46 I don't know if the owners spoke outside your knowledge.
12:16:52 >> I can tell you that I was part of the meeting on Sunday
12:16:54 with Mr. Dingfelder, and two other gentlemen who were here
12:16:59 that spoke.
12:17:01 They asked for 11 p.m., and we said we could not agree to
12:17:09 >>FRANK REDDICK: Let me just ask you a question. It seems
12:17:10 like the only concern that the majority of those who
12:17:14 submitted petitions and who commented to us about this
12:17:19 facility is that they just wanted the hours reduced by a few
12:17:24 They didn't object to the establishment, they didn't object
12:17:30 to being there, they are just saying reduce the hours.
12:17:35 And it seems to me if you want to be gad neighbors, and you
12:17:42 are a smart business owner, you will work with the neighbors
12:17:45 to reduce the hours.
12:17:48 It seems like common sense to me.
12:17:51 I mean, they are neighbors.
12:17:55 You don't want to cause them to become anti-establishment.
12:17:58 >> I agree with you, and I know the owners agree with you.
12:18:02 I will tell you that the primary reason that we requested
12:18:05 2 a.m. was to cater to special events.
12:18:08 I will tell you there is no inclination on the part of Jen
12:18:12 and Torrey who work at the shop every day to keep it open
12:18:15 until two.
12:18:16 However, there are occasions on which they would like to be
12:18:18 able to.
12:18:20 And the way that our code is written and the way that we
12:18:22 have to process these applications, we have to ask for a
12:18:26 specific time.
12:18:27 And that's the time we ask for.
12:18:30 I will tell you, in the interest of being good neighbors --
12:18:34 and Jen and Torrey and I had this discussion before the
12:18:36 meeting, and if it is the pleasure of council to reduce the
12:18:39 request to 1 a.m. we certainly would entertain that.
12:18:41 >>FRANK REDDICK: Only selling beer and wine?
12:18:48 >> Yes.
12:18:49 >>FRANK REDDICK: And Sundays you will be open to --
12:18:56 >> Currently on Sundays the store is not open.
12:18:59 Based on the application, it would be across the board 2
12:19:03 >>FRANK REDDICK: 2 a.m.
12:19:04 Actually Monday morning.
12:19:05 >> Yes, sir.
12:19:09 As the application reads.
12:19:10 Again by virtue of how these polices are set up --
12:19:21 >> Well, I would think there's a miscommunication somewhere
12:19:26 between the petitioner and the neighborhood, and I believe
12:19:29 somebody is not being honest here.
12:19:31 And I think a request from the owners -- the neighbors to
12:19:45 say compromise here, and I can understand your beer and wine
12:19:52 establishment, I can understand all of that, had but it
12:19:55 seems to me, this is a workable compromise, and if the
12:20:01 owners are not willing to compromise, then I can't support
12:20:05 And I would not support this application.
12:20:08 >> I think the owners would be willing to compromise.
12:20:11 The question is, are we going to meet the neighbors all the
12:20:14 way at their end or are we going to move forward with the
12:20:17 application as it stands, or is there a place in the middle?
12:20:20 As I said, I believe there is room in the middle.
12:20:22 And I believe we would make that compromise.
12:20:27 I mean, the issue that I would like to address is special
12:20:30 event itself, and that is the driving force behind the later
12:20:34 >>HARRY COHEN: I am going to go to Mr. Suarez, then Mrs.
12:20:40 Capin, then Mrs. Mulhern wants to speak as well.
12:20:42 >>MARY MULHERN: (off microphone).
12:21:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There's confusion, there's
12:21:03 There's no lie.
12:21:04 Because in good faith, they met with us on Sunday, at my
12:21:06 request, okay.
12:21:11 This has been going on like last Thursday.
12:21:13 So I say, well, before the meeting, let's try and get
12:21:17 And we did on Sunday and Monday.
12:21:21 We had a decent meeting.
12:21:22 We trade to come up with some compromise hours.
12:21:24 And that is a big part of this is the hours.
12:21:27 The other part, he lives three or four houses behind us, is
12:21:34 So I am going speak to hours right now.
12:21:36 What we suggested, and ultimately, what Mr. Singer called me
12:21:41 back about, he said I think we can live with 10:00 on Sunday
12:21:45 and Monday.
12:21:46 I said I think what we can live with is 10:00 on Sunday an
12:21:50 Mo Monday.
12:21:51 He said we are not open.
12:21:53 11:00 us the Tuesday and Thursday and midnight Friday and
12:22:00 He said I can't offer you that because I don't have any
12:22:04 clients' permission.
12:22:05 And I said I understand that.
12:22:07 So about a day went by, I think, David, and he came back to
12:22:10 me and he said, we can't do that.
12:22:12 He said -- because we were in agreement with that.
12:22:15 And I'll say the hours again.
12:22:17 10 a.m. Sunday Monday, not open, 11:00 Wednesday and
12:22:24 Thursday and midnight Friday and stat.
12:22:28 And we said fine, we don't need to show up.
12:22:31 Then he called me back and said his clients weren't good
12:22:34 with that.
12:22:34 So then he called me back and says, but we can live with
12:22:38 midnight seven days a week.
12:22:39 Midnight seven days a week, we are talking about, Mr.
12:22:42 Suarez, pretty much all of you, you know, raise children.
12:22:48 And these guys are a block behind.
12:22:50 Our neighborhood is recycling with children again, little
12:22:53 kids, not mine, but for the grandkids, but that's the bottom
12:22:57 So even midnight on toss night, Wednesday night, Thursday
12:23:03 night, that's not acceptable.
12:23:04 So we talked about that I just mentioned 11:00, midnight on
12:23:10 Friday, Saturday.
12:23:11 I know I can live with.
12:23:12 That I can't speak for them.
12:23:17 Any questions?
12:23:22 >>MARY MULHERN: No.
12:23:23 I didn't want to -- wanted to you clarify about the
12:23:27 And you did.
12:23:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
12:23:30 >>MIKE SUAREZ: There's two different issues.
12:23:35 The parking issue is not going to be solved or not solved.
12:23:38 Whether or not Cru Cellars is open or closed.
12:23:42 I think we are all very familiar with this place, very
12:23:44 familiar with this neighborhood.
12:23:45 We have Beef O'Brady's.
12:23:49 We have got several other businesses there.
12:23:52 Parking is horrific in that area.
12:23:55 That is not going to be solved with this.
12:23:57 If we deny it, the parking situation is still going to be
12:24:01 You know, I think some of the neighbors were showing
12:24:03 pictures of bad parking situations that exist now.
12:24:07 And nothing else is happening.
12:24:09 The second issue is the time frame.
12:24:12 Now, I want to find out -- and maybe Mr. Sousa might know,
12:24:19 maybe somebody else from land development might know, what
12:24:22 is the closing hours for some of these other locations that
12:24:25 are here in the neighborhood?
12:24:27 Beef O'Brady's, you know.
12:24:29 And I will say this.
12:24:30 Having been to all of the establishments that I just
12:24:34 mentioned, a lot of times it is because they are still open.
12:24:38 They are still serving.
12:24:39 And it is contained of the nature of the neighborhood, that
12:24:46 is what has come up over the course of the last few years.
12:24:50 I don't think Mr. Singer would have that answer.
12:24:52 Do you, sir?
12:24:54 And when we are looking at a wine bar, and it's going to be
12:25:02 a little bit different than a Bebalow's which is a little
12:25:12 different from Beef O'Brady's, but we can compare, so to
12:25:18 Mr. Singer, obviously we cannot ask you to change your
12:25:27 petition to us.
12:25:28 And I know that there has been discussion as to what was
12:25:31 said and not said.
12:25:32 I am not going to get involved in that.
12:25:34 That is two different people's interpretation of the same
12:25:37 We cannot make that judgment.
12:25:39 We are not in a he-said she-said situation.
12:25:43 We are not going to deal with that.
12:25:44 But there are some interesting issues that were brought up
12:25:48 concerning parking and some other things.
12:25:50 I know that the space we are talking about is incredibly
12:25:54 We already zoned it for this particular use before.
12:25:57 The tenants came in.
12:25:59 They were using it essentially in the same manner under the
12:26:02 same guise as they have before.
12:26:05 So I won't even say expand.
12:26:11 467 feet is not really expansion.
12:26:13 It's just an amenity in my mind.
12:26:17 How do you think the operation will change in the future
12:26:22 with this additional outside patio area at all?
12:26:27 You know, obviously when you make a business plan, you are
12:26:29 saying we are going to be able to have X number of more
12:26:33 people because the hours, or we are going to be able to make
12:26:36 X number of dollars because of the hours.
12:26:37 What is the business plan?
12:26:40 >> It's difficult to put a dollar amount on what four
12:26:43 additional hours would do with six additional tables.
12:26:45 That's really what we are talking about.
12:26:47 It's putting six tables outside of 400 square feet.
12:26:53 No live bands.
12:26:54 In a additional draw.
12:26:55 The draw is exactly the same as it is today, which is
12:27:00 hey-end wine at Jen and Torrey's and talking about a
12:27:07 business plan, that is the business plan, is to be open
12:27:11 later with an additional amenity.
12:27:14 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I hate to ask this again, but we have two
12:27:18 smart people from Chicago that are coming down here that
12:27:21 probably have some idea of what that is going to be.
12:27:24 Because, you know, I'm sure they are paying you some money
12:27:27 to be here, and so there's got to be a cost versus benefit.
12:27:33 Do you mind if we ask the owners if they have done any of
12:27:35 that study?
12:27:38 >> I think you certainly can ask --
12:27:42 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I want to make sure with my lawyer that's
12:27:44 not a problem for me to ask that question. Is it, sir?
12:27:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If petitioner is willing.
12:27:48 >> I think Jen and Torrey can come up and address the issue
12:27:54 of how they would like to build their business plan.
12:27:57 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
12:28:07 I think they need to be sworn.
12:28:24 (Oath administered by Clerk)
12:28:25 >> I'm a little nervous because I don't actually have number
12:28:36 Again, another sort of gamble where we are betting, that we
12:28:42 are trying to approve what we do and what we can offer, and
12:28:46 we think that this move will enhance not only our customer
12:28:54 experience but bottom line.
12:28:57 We feel like often we are looking out -- a lot of people
12:29:03 said how nice it would be nice it would be to come for
12:29:08 dessert after dinner, and with the patio, we would like to
12:29:14 just offer a different setting in which for our clients.
12:29:21 >>MIKE SUAREZ: So no hard numbers.
12:29:23 >> Unfortunately, no.
12:29:24 >> I hope the lender is not listening.
12:29:26 But that's okay.
12:29:28 Well, I appreciate you coming up here.
12:29:30 Because I can I can tell on your faces that you weren't
12:29:33 planning on saying anything, you know.
12:29:35 You are paying a very well-known lawyer here locally to
12:29:40 represent you.
12:29:40 So thank you forgiving me at least your response on this,
12:29:45 because I wanted to make sure we understood what was going
12:29:48 So one last question, Mr. Singer.
12:29:53 In terms of -- and again, I am not going to belabor this
12:29:57 parking issue because I think that that's an unsolvable
12:30:02 In relation to almost any business that's out there.
12:30:05 The businesses that were created there, they were created
12:30:08 for a different type of view point.
12:30:11 I think my colleague Mrs. Montelione put in a very
12:30:15 straightforward and concise way and we were built in many
12:30:18 respects on the suburban plan as opposed to an urban plan.
12:30:23 But in terms of some of the remarks made by Mr. Reddick and
12:30:27 Ms. Mulhern in terms of time, is there in your mind any
12:30:34 compromise that you can think of that might also work
12:30:37 towards the advantage of the particular -- your client?
12:30:43 >> I think there is room.
12:30:44 And I would amend the request to go to midnight.
12:30:50 I think that is a reasonable amendment.
12:30:53 I think it meets in the middle of what we are asking with
12:30:57 the caveat.
12:30:58 And this is an important caveat, is Jen, Torrey and CRU cell
12:31:05 areas one of the biggest nights of the year, New Year's Eve,
12:31:08 and it would be important for them to stay open till 1 a.m.
12:31:11 on New Year's Eve.
12:31:12 I know that it's unusual.
12:31:13 And I know that it is not often done.
12:31:17 But we have spoken with city attorney's office.
12:31:19 They have indicated that they would be able to zone this
12:31:23 property for a certain set standard of hours with the one
12:31:28 night exception of new year's eve.
12:31:30 >> So you are talking about midnight all the way across the
12:31:34 board except for that one night.
12:31:36 I could hear from our legal eagle.
12:31:38 >>HARRY COHEN: It is 12:30.
12:31:44 We have been here since 9 a.m.
12:31:46 We need to wrap this up.
12:31:47 I would like a motion for a very limited amount of time to
12:31:51 see if we can get done with this.
12:31:53 >> So moved.
12:31:59 >> I would second it.
12:32:00 >>HARRY COHEN: All in favor?
12:32:03 >>REBECCA KERT: When you set individual hours and
12:32:05 individual establishments, it's a land enforcement issue.
12:32:14 >> You said it so fast it was hard for me to catch every
12:32:18 But you are saying if we wanted to, we could, on the site
12:32:20 plan, say that it would be midnight all seven days of the
12:32:24 week, with the exception of one night a year which is
12:32:27 December 3121st St.
12:32:29 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes.
12:32:30 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Yes.
12:32:34 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
12:32:35 Going to wrap this up.
12:32:38 You indicated, you would agree to no amplified music on the
12:32:44 site plan.
12:32:45 And by the way, what was indicated as far as midnight and
12:32:50 then 1 a.m. on new years eve, it's called a condition.
12:32:55 And those everyone knows will be posted, all conditions are
12:33:02 posted now.
12:33:03 That's by ordinance.
12:33:06 That would be no amplified music outside.
12:33:12 And the time, midnight with the exception of New Year's Eve
12:33:18 to 1 a.m.
12:33:22 I can support this and I would like to make a motion to move
12:33:24 it forward.
12:33:25 >>HARRY COHEN: Let me go to Mrs. Montelione.
12:33:31 >>YVONNE CAPIN: The motion is to approve this with these
12:33:33 conditions, no amplified music outside, and midnightmidnight
12:33:40 with the exception of 1 a.m. on New Year's Eve.
12:33:43 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I have a condition I have to restate
12:33:48 because I was going to make a different motion.
12:33:51 I'm not going to support the motion for a midnight and then
12:33:58 1 a.m. on New Year's Eve.
12:34:00 It is an enforcement issue.
12:34:04 Having different establishments, and have a holiday called
12:34:11 out like new years eve, what about Valentine's day?
12:34:15 Or what about other holidays?
12:34:19 I would support 1 a.m. across the board.
12:34:21 I mean, you know, without having different days, different
12:34:25 days of the weak, different holiday, whatever, there's a
12:34:29 three-hour difference between what the neighborhood wants
12:34:31 and what the application wants.
12:34:34 If we split that, you know, I think 1 a.m. is a decent
12:34:40 I myself am a night owl.
12:34:42 Some people aren't.
12:34:43 >> Right now there's a motion.
12:34:48 Do we have a second?
12:34:50 For midnight?
12:34:54 >> Second.
12:34:55 >>HARRY COHEN: There is a motion on the floor from Mrs.
12:34:57 Capin and a second, I believe, by Mr. Reddick.
12:35:00 Is there any further discussion of that motion, which I
12:35:05 believe is midnight, and with the special condition on New
12:35:09 Year's Eve?
12:35:14 >>YVONNE CAPIN: And no amplification.
12:35:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That being the case, it's just necessary
12:35:19 to find out on the record again that's being heard that that
12:35:23 is the petition request.
12:35:24 Is that correct?
12:35:28 >> On the record, that is the petitioner's request.
12:35:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
12:35:31 >> Is there any further discussion of the motion?
12:35:35 Hearing none, all those in favor of Ms. Capin's motion
12:35:39 second bid Mr. Reddick, please signify by saying aye.
12:35:42 >> Nay.
12:35:45 >>HARRY COHEN: Motion carries 5 to 1.
12:35:48 Thank you.
12:35:55 Ms. Capin --
12:35:58 >> Motion to close.
12:35:58 >> Second.
12:35:59 >> Motion by Mr. Suarez, seconded by Mrs. Capin to close.
12:36:04 All those in favor please say aye.
12:36:08 Go ahead.
12:36:08 >> An ordinance repealing ordinance number 2006-82 approval
12:36:16 a special use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales small
12:36:20 venue consumption on premises package sales off premises
12:36:25 consumption and making lawful the sale of beer and wine at
12:36:27 or from that certain lot, plot or tract of land located --
12:36:33 >>HARRY COHEN: Please be quiet so Ms. Capin can read the
12:36:36 >> 2008 South MacDill Avenue Tampa, Florida as more
12:36:39 particularly described in section 3, that all ordinances or
12:36:43 parts of ordinances in conflict are repealed, providing an
12:36:46 effective date.
12:36:46 >> Second.
12:36:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And that includes the revision sheet, plus
12:36:52 the revision agreed upon by the petitioner and voted on by
12:36:57 >> And amend that to include the revision sheet plus the
12:37:01 revisions that have been applied by council.
12:37:06 >>HARRY COHEN: Seconded by Mr. Suarez.
12:37:07 All those in favor please signify by saying aye.
12:37:12 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Montelione voting no and
12:37:15 Miranda being absent at vote.
12:37:19 Second reading will be held June 7th at 9:30 a.m.
12:37:23 >>HARRY COHEN: And we will be in recess until 1:45 p.m.
12:37:29 >> (City Council meeting reconvened.)
01:44:47 [Sounding gavel]
01:54:00 >>HARRY COHEN: Welcome back to this afternoon's session of
01:54:02 City Council.
01:54:03 We have three additional public hearings to complete and
01:54:07 five staff reports on our agenda.
01:54:09 In the interest of time, I would like to go ahead and ask
01:54:14 for a motion to open the public hearing on item number 61.
01:54:19 Excuse me, roll call first.
01:54:20 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
01:54:24 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Here.
01:54:37 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Here.
01:54:39 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
01:54:39 >> Move to open the rest public hearings.
01:54:44 >>HARRY COHEN: 60, 61 through 64.
01:54:50 >> Second.
01:54:52 >>HARRY COHEN: I have a motion from Mr. Suarez, second by
01:54:56 Mrs. Capin.
01:54:57 All in favor?
01:54:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I think we had too much birthday cake in
01:55:03 honor of Mr. Suarez.
01:55:04 >>HARRY COHEN: Well, speak for yourself.
01:55:08 Item number 61.
01:55:32 >> Application number V-12-162, 304 East Davis Boulevard,
01:56:00 unit number 5.
01:56:01 >>MARY MULHERN: Our recommendations from the development
01:56:02 review committee has reviewed the application and finds it
01:56:06 consistent with applicable City of Tampa land development
01:56:09 The current zoning district is CG commercial general.
01:56:13 Special use is alcoholic beverages, beer wine and liquor
01:56:16 associated with a bar/lounge on premises only.
01:56:20 Requesting two waivers to reduce the required parking from
01:56:23 55 to 34 and reduce distance separation for other alcoholic
01:56:27 establishments from 250 fate to 55 feet.
01:56:31 According to the application submitted, the site is October
01:56:34 you paid by five tenant space, one-story commercial strip
01:56:39 The subject tenant space is comprised of 1,410 square feet
01:56:45 of indoor area and 210 square feet of out door.
01:56:50 The subject site also incorporates approximately four other
01:56:54 tenant spaces including two other restaurants and two
01:56:57 personal service uses.
01:56:59 The site currently utilizes surface parking area for the
01:57:02 The applicant is proposing to waive the required parking
01:57:06 number from 55 to 34.
01:57:09 The on-site parking spaces.
01:57:13 There are also ten on-street parking spaces that have been
01:57:16 historically been recognized for the use of the patrons and
01:57:20 employees of the business complex.
01:57:24 Land Development Coordination found it consistent with minor
01:57:26 site plan revisions, to revise the parking waiver to read to
01:57:31 reduce the required number from 55 to 34 spaces, and to
01:57:35 reduce the distance separation from other alcoholic and
01:57:40 beverage establishments from 250 fate to 55 feet.
01:57:43 And revise a note for the ten onstreet parking spaces.
01:57:48 I would like to show you pictures of the establishment.
01:57:58 Basically, this is East Davis Boulevard right here.
01:58:02 And if you go past the general business sections here, you
01:58:06 will find parking in this building over here.
01:58:10 A HandiMart, a 7-Eleven and drive-through bank.
01:58:13 I'll show you those.
01:58:16 There's a picture looking southwest.
01:58:19 This is the building itself.
01:58:21 The subject is right in the small tenant space.
01:58:24 This shows some on-street parking spaces.
01:58:29 This is across the street to the north.
01:58:31 This is another area of the development.
01:58:35 And the 7-Eleven across the street.
01:58:40 This lass to the south, the parking area, some on-street
01:58:49 And the parking with the residential behind.
01:58:59 The parking space.
01:59:00 The building.
01:59:03 The building there.
01:59:04 The subject tenant space.
01:59:06 The HandiMart right next to it.
01:59:09 And this is a look down the alley separating the residential
01:59:13 from the commercial.
01:59:16 In addition, this project will correct a situation regarding
01:59:20 existing legal description for both a beer and wine license
01:59:25 that was obtained in '08.
01:59:34 This is the tenant space now.
01:59:36 It has an existing beer and wine on it.
01:59:41 Then it came back in 2011 and got an upgrade to beer wine
01:59:48 and liquor license.
01:59:50 As you can see they do not match.
02:00:05 >> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police department.
02:00:07 We have no objection.
02:00:08 >>HARRY COHEN: Petitioner?
02:00:12 >> Todd Pressman, East Lake Road in Palm Harbor, Florida.
02:00:17 I'm here today with Justin sugar and John, two young
02:00:24 enterprising men who operated the site for two and a half
02:00:27 They have operated without any kind of difficulties or
02:00:32 As the gentleman just indicated, most of this is for a
02:00:36 correction to a survey issue, so they were successful in
02:00:39 having council support it prior liquor, increase of use.
02:00:45 They had a long history of beer and wine use but we were in
02:00:49 for the liquor use which was approved and coming back today
02:00:52 to do a correction, and there is a small outside area that
02:00:56 is included, so we have never heard from them through the
02:01:00 entire process, anyone against the issue, and it's a very
02:01:04 well-run establishment as the police department has
02:01:07 If there are any questions, I will be happy to answer them
02:01:10 for you.
02:01:11 >>HARRY COHEN: Is there anyone from the public that would
02:01:13 like to address council on this matter?
02:01:18 Are there any council members that have questions for the
02:01:25 It does not appear that way.
02:01:27 Under council's rules, Mr. Pressman, since there are only
02:01:31 four of us present, you are entitled to ask for a
02:01:33 continuance, but if not we can move forward with the
02:01:40 >> Let me take a take a minute to look at everyone's eyes
02:01:44 very quickly.
02:01:45 Okay, let's proceed.
02:01:46 Thank you.
02:01:46 >>MIKE SUAREZ: You are not a jury consultant, are you?
02:01:50 >> A council consultant.
02:01:53 >>HARRY COHEN: Hearing no more discussion.
02:01:57 >> Move to close.
02:01:58 >> Second.
02:02:00 >>HARRY COHEN: Seconded by Councilwoman Montelione.
02:02:03 All those in favor?
02:02:08 Councilwoman Montelione.
02:02:09 Take item number 61, please.
02:02:11 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Sure, thank you.
02:02:14 I move an ordinance repealing ordinance number 20-1149
02:02:20 approving a special use permit for alcoholic beverage sales,
02:02:24 bar lounge on premises only, beverages regardless of content
02:02:29 beer wine and liquor on that certain lot plot or tract of
02:02:33 land, 304 East Davis Boulevard number 5, described in
02:02:38 section 3, all ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict
02:02:43 are repealed providing an effective date.
02:02:44 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion by Councilwoman Montelione,
02:02:47 seconded by Councilman Suarez.
02:02:49 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
02:02:53 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda, Mulhern and
02:02:56 Reddick being absent at vote.
02:02:58 Second reading of the ordinance will be held June 7th at
02:03:01 9:30 a.m.
02:03:05 >>HARRY COHEN: Item number 60.
02:03:11 >> Good afternoon.
02:03:18 Kate Taylor, legal department.
02:03:20 Before staff makes their presentation on this item, I would
02:03:23 like to point out a little bit of a twist that might be new
02:03:27 to some of you.
02:03:28 This is a vacating petition, petition to vacate a
02:03:31 You have seen many of these.
02:03:33 You know how to handle them.
02:03:34 The little twist is that portion. Royalty is composed of
02:03:38 what's called vitrified brick.
02:03:41 That's important because we have in our code protection for
02:03:48 local streets that are composed of vitrified brick.
02:03:55 When one of these brick streets is outside of the historic
02:03:59 district as this one is, anyone who wishes to alter or
02:04:03 remove the brick can come to City Council and ask for
02:04:08 That's what's happened here.
02:04:10 So in conjunction with the petition to vacate, there is also
02:04:13 a request to alter or remove a portion of the right-of-way
02:04:16 that is composed of brick.
02:04:22 City Council is required by code to have a public hearing on
02:04:25 the request.
02:04:27 That is what you were doing today, so you have two things
02:04:29 you are considering, whether the right-of-way should be
02:04:31 vacated, and whether you want to allow the petitioner to
02:04:35 also alter or remove the brick.
02:04:38 I am going to allow petitioner to explain exactly what the
02:04:40 nature of their request is as far as removing or altering
02:04:43 the brick streets.
02:04:44 >>HARRY COHEN: Just a quick question.
02:04:50 I know the city maintains an inventory of bricks to be used
02:04:54 when streets need to be repaired.
02:04:58 Would the brick that's removed go into that inventory?
02:05:02 >> Yes.
02:05:02 And I was going to mention that.
02:05:04 The code and actually the ordinance that you will be
02:05:07 considering today does require that any brick that is
02:05:11 removed from this area be cleaned, palletized and returned
02:05:15 to the city for future use.
02:05:22 I was going to say that the ordinance before you today would
02:05:26 approve the vacating and would also approve the alteration
02:05:29 of removal of the brick.
02:05:31 Unless you have any further questions, I am going to allow
02:05:34 staff to do their presentation.
02:05:36 >> I believe we need to be sworn.
02:05:44 (Oath administered by Clerk).
02:05:56 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.
02:05:59 C 12-06 is vacating a portion of 40th Street and an alley
02:06:03 that's also known by 6th Avenue on the plat.
02:06:07 I have a photograph or aerial that can go on the overhead so
02:06:12 I will show the property once I put this down.
02:06:18 This application is by DAC properties and a co-petitioner.
02:06:24 GAC properties are here.
02:06:27 Connor -- Conner properties are here.
02:06:29 This is 40th Street.
02:06:31 This is the alley.
02:06:32 This runs from 7th to the CSX railroad.
02:06:41 The first photograph is 40th street, looking south from
02:06:45 7th Avenue and this is the brick portion of the request.
02:06:52 That's the railroad tracks back there.
02:06:53 And then this is another shot of the same section from the
02:06:57 railroad tracks looking towards 7th.
02:07:03 And this is the portion of the alley they are requesting to
02:07:08 vacate, west from 40th Street.
02:07:12 This is the alley again looking from 39th to 40th to
02:07:16 the dead-end alleyway.
02:07:20 This is the petitioner's property at the southeast corner of
02:07:23 7th and 40th street.
02:07:26 This is the petitioner's property at 7th and 40th
02:07:33 This is a continuation across 7th Avenue.
02:07:36 Of course I did take time to make a little bit of a map
02:07:43 showing the history of vacating.
02:07:45 Everything in red has been vacated.
02:07:47 These sections here are out of the same plat.
02:07:49 These were vacated in the 20s.
02:07:51 These in the 70s.
02:07:53 And they have either been built over or paved so I couldn't
02:07:57 tell you whether they were ever brick or not.
02:08:02 Transportation planning objects to this request because of
02:08:04 the brick streets.
02:08:05 There's no other objections to the request.
02:08:07 There are easement reservations that would have to be in the
02:08:09 ordinance for TECO, people's gas and Verizon, and then of
02:08:13 course the conditions to return the brick to the city, and
02:08:17 also the fire marshal did have a request if this is vacated
02:08:20 that blocks be used on the gating so they can access the
02:08:26 Do you have any questions?
02:08:29 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I'm not sure if this is for you or not.
02:08:31 But who would be responsible for removing the bricks and
02:08:37 packing them and returning them to the city?
02:08:39 Is the city to remove them or is the owner?
02:08:43 >> The owners would have to palletize and clean the brick
02:08:46 and return them to the city at the time they get to that.
02:08:52 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Do we inventory the brick before it is
02:08:56 >> I don't believe so.
02:08:57 That would be more of a transportation question.
02:08:59 We do have someone from transportation here.
02:09:02 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
02:09:03 If transportation is here I'll ask that.
02:09:04 >> Planning and development, transportation planning.
02:09:13 >> Did you hear my question?
02:09:14 >> I did.
02:09:15 I don't know the answer to that.
02:09:17 I will have to get back with you on that.
02:09:20 >>YVONNE CAPIN: If we inventory it before it's removed.
02:09:23 If we inventory the brick so we know what we should be
02:09:26 getting returned to us.
02:09:29 >> I do not know if but I can get back to you if you like.
02:09:35 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Well.
02:09:35 Well, this is first reading.
02:09:37 Thank you.
02:09:39 I would like you to get back to me with that, please, as
02:09:42 soon as possible.
02:09:42 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Don't leave.
02:09:47 Come back.
02:09:49 A quick question.
02:09:52 Ms. Lynch mentioned that transportation is not in favor of
02:09:55 this particular vacation.
02:09:57 What is the reason behind it?
02:09:58 I know she mentioned it's a brick street, but what about it?
02:10:02 >> We object anytime there's a vacating of a brick street
02:10:05 just for the fact that there is an ordinance in place, a
02:10:09 city code is in place, for removal of the Breck street.
02:10:14 >> So as a matter of course you are always against the
02:10:17 vacation of a brick street?
02:10:18 >> That's correct.
02:10:19 >> And there was nothing specific about transportation or
02:10:22 any other issues, just that?
02:10:24 >> That's correct.
02:10:24 >> And she's not the only one that wants to know about the
02:10:28 inventory of the bricks, too.
02:10:29 Bring it back to all of us.
02:10:32 Thank you.
02:10:32 >> Okay, I appreciate it.
02:10:35 >>YVONNE CAPIN: How soon can we have that answer?
02:10:38 Before we vote?
02:10:41 >> A little longer than that.
02:10:42 >> Between this hearing and the next?
02:10:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If that's a question you need answered, I
02:10:53 suggest you do it during the course of the public hearing,
02:10:56 which would be the second reading.
02:11:00 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
02:11:00 Thank you.
02:11:00 >>HARRY COHEN: Petitioner?
02:11:05 >> Tammy Corbett, 100 north Tampa street, suite 2100 Tampa,
02:11:14 Florida representing applicant.
02:11:16 A little history of the request for the vacation.
02:11:22 They have long standing been there.
02:11:24 They were experiencing trash and debris thrown in the alley
02:11:28 and having to continually clean that up so they were looking
02:11:31 for a way to shut that off so they could keep the property
02:11:33 clean and not have other people have access to it.
02:11:36 They didn't affirmatively have any plans for the brick or
02:11:39 remove them, didn't have any ideas of doing anything other
02:11:43 than keeping the area safe and secure.
02:11:46 If your question is not answered we have no objection as
02:11:49 petitioner to have included or the ordinance brick free
02:11:54 impact that requires an inventory be taken prior to the
02:11:58 I would not have an objection to having that included in the
02:12:00 ordinance to address that issue, even if you don't do it as
02:12:03 a matter of course, this applicant would not object to that
02:12:06 condition as part of the ordinance.
02:12:09 And again we don't have any made need to do anything in the
02:12:12 area other than to get it off and the appropriate locks for
02:12:17 the fire rescue, so therefore we respectfully request you
02:12:21 approve the vacation.
02:12:22 I'm available if you have any questions.
02:12:26 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay, from our legal or anyone.
02:12:28 You heard what petitioner had to say.
02:12:32 Do you think that is something we can do, or should we --
02:12:40 >> The condition that they inventory the brick?
02:12:43 That can be done between first and second reading so we can
02:12:46 add that, if that's your pleasure.
02:12:49 >>YVONNE CAPIN: That would be very helpful to me.
02:12:51 Thank you.
02:12:51 >>HARRY COHEN: Anyone else?
02:12:55 Any other additional questions from council members?
02:12:57 Is there anyone in the public here to speak on this matter?
02:13:02 Seeing no one, motion to close?
02:13:07 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Motion to close Cohen seconded by Councilman
02:13:12 All those in favor please say aye.
02:13:18 Item number 60.
02:13:20 Mr. Suarez, can you please?
02:13:23 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I move an ordinance presented for first
02:13:25 reading consideration, an ordinance vacating, closing,
02:13:26 discontinuing, and abandoning an alleyway bound on the east
02:13:30 by 40th Street and on the west by 39th street, all that
02:13:34 portion of 40th Street laying south of 7th Avenue and
02:13:37 north of 6th Avenue and all that intersection in common
02:13:40 between 40th street and 6th Avenue in Spanish park
02:13:44 subdivision in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County,
02:13:47 Florida, and legally described in section 1 hereof, subject
02:13:50 to certain easement reservations, covenants, conditions, and
02:13:54 restrictions, more particularly set forth herein, approving
02:13:57 a request to impact a vitrified brick street lying within a
02:14:01 portion of said rights-of-way, providing an effective date.
02:14:07 And with the -- I guess it would be a condition to inventory
02:14:13 the brick and bring it back, a report about that, between
02:14:18 first and second reading.
02:14:23 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Second.
02:14:24 >>HARRY COHEN: Motion by Councilman Suarez, seconded by
02:14:27 Councilwoman Capin.
02:14:28 All in favor please say aye.
02:14:31 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda and Mulhern being
02:14:34 absent at vote.
02:14:35 Second reading of the ordinance will be held June 7th at
02:14:38 9:30 a.m.
02:14:39 >>HARRY COHEN: We have one more public hearing, item number
02:14:51 >> Application V-12-180, property address is 2617 West
02:15:24 Kennedy Boulevard.
02:15:26 Applicant's name is Michael Disser.
02:15:29 The recommendation from the development review committee
02:15:31 finds it consistent with applicable City of Tampa land
02:15:34 development regulations.
02:15:35 Current zoning is CG commercial general.
02:15:38 Special use is alcoholic beverage sales, beer wine and
02:15:41 liquor, sales associated with a restaurant, on-premises
02:15:45 consumption only.
02:15:46 There are three particular waivers.
02:15:47 Reduce the required minimum distance separation from 250
02:15:51 feet to the 98 feet, from other establishments selling
02:15:54 alcohol, reduce required minimum distance to 26 feet for
02:15:58 residential uses and to allow the solid waste service
02:16:02 vehicles to maneuver within the right-of-way for collection
02:16:06 You probably -- may remember this case.
02:16:08 You heard it back in December of 2011.
02:16:11 It's the same add developments it's coming in because this
02:16:14 particular address is increasing their occupant load.
02:16:18 The site is occupied by one-story vacant professional
02:16:21 office, proposed alcoholic sales area encompasses 4,416
02:16:26 square feet of which 1,209 square feet is outside seating
02:16:32 This has not changed from the previous application.
02:16:35 The site utilizes the surface parking area.
02:16:37 This site is total of 18 spaces.
02:16:40 The applicant is requesting a waiver of the solid waste
02:16:42 vehicles to more than satisfy the code requirement.
02:16:46 The subject parcel obtained an approval to the City of Tampa
02:16:51 City Council on December 11, 2011, V 11-94, associated with
02:16:59 a restaurant.
02:16:59 This only increases from 108 to 152.
02:17:03 In order to support the intended restaurant use operation.
02:17:07 In addition, the applicant has obtained a design exception
02:17:11 approval for off-site parking.
02:17:13 They have obtained 20 off-site parking spaces as a condition
02:17:17 of the use application.
02:17:26 Kennedy Boulevard.
02:17:28 This is the location right here.
02:17:34 This is to the north.
02:17:39 This is the subject building.
02:17:41 Local street Arrawanna.
02:17:43 Looking east on Kennedy Boulevard, subject site.
02:17:48 Looking towards the north, you will see this is the small
02:17:51 parking area for the 18 spaces.
02:17:54 The subject property.
02:17:58 And look toward the west.
02:18:00 There's the subject property.
02:18:01 Adjacent property.
02:18:06 >> Michael Disser, Harbor Place Drive.
02:18:20 >> Have you been sworn?
02:18:22 >> Yes, sir.
02:18:22 Before lunch.
02:18:26 As mentioned previously, applied for and approved.
02:18:31 I have increased occupancy load by 24 people, I believe.
02:18:34 And decreased hours of operation from 5 p.m. to 1 p.m.
02:18:39 Monday through Friday, to 11 a.m. to 1 a.m. Saturday and
02:18:44 So we are not doing lunch at all.
02:18:48 Other than that, it's the same as it was before.
02:18:51 >>HARRY COHEN: Any questions from council members at this
02:18:57 Is there anyone from the public that wishes to address
02:18:59 council regarding this matter?
02:19:01 >> Move to close.
02:19:05 >> Second.
02:19:06 >>HARRY COHEN: Motion to close by Mr. Reddick, seconded by
02:19:10 Mrs. Montelione.
02:19:10 All those in favor?
02:19:17 On that note, Mr. Reddick, would you please take item number
02:19:23 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
02:19:31 Move an ordinance, repealing 2021 approving a special use
02:19:40 permit S 2 for alcoholic beverage sale, restaurant,
02:19:44 onpremises only and making lawful the sale of beverages
02:19:47 regardless of alcoholic content, beer, wine and liquor on
02:19:50 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 2617 West
02:19:54 Kennedy Boulevard, Tampa, Florida and more particularly
02:19:57 described in section 3, that all ordinances or parts of
02:20:01 ordinances in conflict are repealed, providing an effective
02:20:04 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
02:20:08 >>HARRY COHEN: Including the revisions.
02:20:12 We have a motion from Mr. Reddick, seconded by Mr. Suarez.
02:20:15 All those in five please indicate by saying aye.
02:20:18 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda and Mulhern being
02:20:23 absent at vote.
02:20:24 Second reading of the ordinance will be held June 7th at
02:20:27 9:30 a.m.
02:20:28 >>HARRY COHEN: We are now going to move on to staff
02:20:32 They were scald for 10 a.m. time certain.
02:20:35 It's only 2:20 so we are moving right along.
02:20:42 Item 55, legal department.
02:20:52 Item 55.
02:20:53 Use a facsimile of the official seal of the City of Tampa.
02:20:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The clerk has the resolution.
02:21:00 All you have to do is move it.
02:21:01 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I move item 55.
02:21:05 >> Second.
02:21:06 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion from Mr. Suarez, seconded
02:21:09 by Councilwoman Montelione.
02:21:11 All those in favor indicate by citing aye.
02:21:14 Motion passes.
02:21:24 Councilwoman Montelione reminded me that we did not finish
02:21:27 out item number 54 earlier.
02:21:29 Mr. Vaughan was here from contract administration on that
02:21:32 So why don't we go ahead and return to that so we can --
02:21:53 >>DAVE VAUGHAN: Director of contract administration.
02:21:54 I think where we got to was I had presented some remarks,
02:21:58 and I am open to questions and discussion at this point.
02:22:02 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I appreciate your coming by the office
02:22:10 yesterday and dropping off this nice little contract here
02:22:15 that's pretty thick.
02:22:18 I have not since yesterday had a chance to review it and
02:22:21 look at all of the changes.
02:22:24 And the underlines and strike throughs, those are the new
02:22:28 changes we are looking at here?
02:22:31 >>DAVE VAUGHAN: And they are a draft.
02:22:32 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So I am going to take an opportunity to
02:22:37 look at this.
02:22:38 And at some point have you come back if I have got any
02:22:43 >>DAVE VAUGHAN: Absolutely.
02:22:44 Or I can come meet with you, either one.
02:22:46 >>LISA MONTELIONE: There's one thing you said this morning
02:22:50 and kind of caught my attention.
02:22:52 And -- or yesterday.
02:22:54 You had gone back and looked and you had about 90% of what
02:22:59 we awarded as a city was meeting or exceeding the 51% SLBE?
02:23:08 >>DAVE VAUGHAN: Actually above 90%.
02:23:09 At this time vast majority.
02:23:11 >>LISA MONTELIONE: That's what I am maybe confused about
02:23:16 and maybe it's just the terminology that is SLBE and not the
02:23:20 WMBE program, because not too long ago, we heard from Mr.
02:23:26 Hart, and we are now looking at revising some of our
02:23:32 policies because we are not -- the city is not meeting its
02:23:35 goals, in the WMBE, or MBE program.
02:23:42 So the EFO act as it's called is reconvening and meeting
02:23:50 again to help the city to meet those goals.
02:23:54 So maybe you can explain.
02:23:56 I'm a little confused how on one hand county be 90%.
02:24:01 >> Because we are talking about different kinds of
02:24:06 Participation we are talking about with the 51% rule is for
02:24:10 the bidder, the general contractor, to perform 51% of the
02:24:15 contract work, of its forces.
02:24:24 The participation that they are talking from the MNBO is
02:24:32 women and minority and small business participation of the
02:24:38 Different kind of -- different percentages.
02:24:40 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay.
02:24:43 That straightens it out.
02:24:44 Thank you.
02:24:45 It was my confusion.
02:24:47 I'm sorry.
02:24:47 >>HARRY COHEN: Any other questions from council members?
02:24:52 Seeing none, thank you very much, Mr. Vaughan.
02:24:58 Item number 56, Mr. Snelling.
02:25:38 >> Thom Snelling planning and development to give you an
02:25:41 update on the homeless program that was just discussed at
02:25:46 county commissioners a couple of weeks ago and the group
02:25:49 that we have been working with.
02:25:50 Just an update.
02:25:52 What you have in front of you is a letter from that group to
02:25:55 Mayor Buckhorn and a breakdown of their entire program and
02:26:00 their philosophy.
02:26:01 I am not going to read that but I will go through the
02:26:03 highlights, and you can read that at your leisure.
02:26:09 Basically the city and county joined with other business
02:26:11 leaders to work on this issue.
02:26:13 And as they started to do this, they confirmed that the
02:26:18 homeless coalition did indeed, over the broad spectrum of
02:26:22 homeless population, but the chronic homeless was one of the
02:26:26 populations that was totally underserved.
02:26:29 And what they determined was that nearly 700 of the people
02:26:32 that are chronically homeless in Hillsborough County are
02:26:35 part of this group, and they are the most vulnerable
02:26:41 homeless individuals that are out there.
02:26:47 Now, this group, we looked at a variety of approaches around
02:26:50 the country, identifying various strategies of what would be
02:26:55 most effective in serving the chronically homeless people,
02:26:59 and this group came up with programs of the housing first
02:27:04 You probably read about it and understand quite a bit about
02:27:08 But the housing first model is endorsed by the interagency
02:27:14 council on homelessness as a best practice for ending
02:27:17 chronic homelessness in an environment.
02:27:21 So what this group did, they established reasonable
02:27:24 obtainable goals.
02:27:26 They are looking to fund it through federal, state, local
02:27:29 grants, with the goal of establishing 500 supportive
02:27:34 permanent homeless facilities, or 500 people in five years
02:27:39 can be eliminated from that 700 number and have those people
02:27:43 have a permanent home.
02:27:44 Those homes would be supported by the social services that
02:27:47 provide those kinds of services depending on what they are
02:27:51 in all forms.
02:27:53 It could be mental health.
02:27:54 It could be jobs.
02:27:55 It could be counseling.
02:27:56 It could be whatever to keep somebody off the street and
02:27:59 into their home, but most importantly was to get the home
02:28:03 The other significant part about this is from the private
02:28:08 sector as part of the model that they are developing.
02:28:11 The strategy is really to rehabilitate first to start out
02:28:14 with rehabilitating small scale apartment buildings,
02:28:16 providing the permanent housing and support services, and
02:28:22 importantly to leverage the federal funds and private
02:28:25 That's the big key, funding is always a problem, and there
02:28:30 never seems to be enough money to go around.
02:28:32 They want to have measurable outcomes so when they have this
02:28:35 model it can be replicated again and again and again both in
02:28:38 the city and the county.
02:28:39 And that's our goal.
02:28:42 We talked about the housing first.
02:28:44 It's evidence-based that this is probably one of the best
02:28:47 practices that are out there to end chronic homelessness,
02:28:50 and it is most effective, and it's moved away, as is the --
02:29:00 HUD is asking people to think outside the box and shift the
02:29:05 pendulum from moving away from chronically warehousing
02:29:08 homeless people and they get on this revolving psyche, they
02:29:11 come in, spend a day, maybe two days, go back out and they
02:29:14 are still homeless.
02:29:15 It doesn't actually help homelessness.
02:29:18 They can perhaps feed them, give them a shower, place to
02:29:21 stay for a day or so.
02:29:23 But these programs actually end homelessness, and you
02:29:26 eventually whittle down, hopefully, that population.
02:29:32 The chronic homeless are a smaller percentage, there's no
02:29:35 doubt it ranges between 18 to 20% what the numbers are of
02:29:39 how many people of the overall homeless population there
02:29:43 are, but the reality is that they consume over 50% of all of
02:29:46 the resources that go towards helping homelessness, the
02:29:49 homelessness program.
02:29:50 So very small percentage, consuming over 50% of the dollars
02:29:54 that are going there.
02:29:56 The thought process is that if you address this group, and
02:29:59 you are effective in addressing this group, you are removing
02:30:03 the dollars that are saved and that trade-off can lead to do
02:30:07 additional programs and more effective programs.
02:30:18 It reduces arrests, all kinds of services that are very
02:30:21 costly because you are bringing people to hospitals or to
02:30:24 jails or things like that, and having to get them
02:30:35 The strategy is start off small, create a model, and their
02:30:40 first facility is going up on 15th street, north of
02:30:43 Fletcher, in that area there.
02:30:45 And they are -- other problems going forward with the idea
02:30:52 of disbursing facilities throughout the city and county and
02:30:55 not concentrate them in a single area.
02:30:57 When you concentrate like that, it's difficult, it has a
02:31:02 potentially adverse effect on neighborhoods, and allows the
02:31:07 community to keep the people more engaged in the actual
02:31:09 community as real members rather than some stigma that
02:31:12 everybody is being forced into one part of town or something
02:31:15 such as that.
02:31:16 The other big important part of the strategy is to leverage
02:31:19 public dollars with private resources.
02:31:21 Without that kind of an approach, the federal government,
02:31:25 state and local, is never going to have enough money.
02:31:27 The private sector that's get involved, and the two
02:31:32 gentlemen that we worked with on this, they made that, they
02:31:44 understand that, the private sector is very involved, and
02:31:47 improve your community for all of the beneficial reasons.
02:31:50 That we are talking about.
02:31:53 So, in essence, the pilot program, the case study for
02:31:58 Hillsborough County, they are going to use a community
02:32:01 development block grant for the first thing from the county.
02:32:04 They found 2.3 million or something such as.
02:32:07 That they are going to rehabilitate a small 24-unit
02:32:09 building, and their partners in this particular project,
02:32:13 although they will tap into other not-for-profit agencies,
02:32:16 and not for profit services, is mental health care.
02:32:20 They are highly respected in the industry.
02:32:22 And they have the infrastructure, if you would, in place to
02:32:28 hit the ground running, so to speak.
02:32:31 And once that is shown to be successful, we feel that it
02:32:33 will be able to -- they will be able to start a very
02:32:36 effective fund-raising campaign and start to leveraging the
02:32:39 private dollars that are going to be very important to the
02:32:42 success of this.
02:32:43 And again, the goal that you create 500 units over a
02:32:46 five-year period, and you have to start somewhere, so this
02:32:49 is how they decided to start.
02:32:52 The city has been working with them all along.
02:32:54 And we are going to continue to explore ways that we can
02:32:56 offer some of those types of support services that they need
02:33:00 and continue to explore all the other options that will
02:33:05 unfold as this process continues to move forward.
02:33:08 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you, Mr. Snelling.
02:33:12 There are any comments or questions of council members?
02:33:13 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
02:33:21 This program, when you talked about it, you had mentioned
02:33:26 that facilities or locations would be worked out throughout
02:33:32 Hillsborough County.
02:33:34 >>THOM SNELLING: And the city.
02:33:35 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And the city.
02:33:36 So when the time comes for locations being scouted in the
02:33:43 city, I know that council had concerns that we were not a
02:33:51 part of the committee that looked at locations or the needs
02:34:03 or the parameters of the project.
02:34:04 What you handed out today with the exception of the letter,
02:34:09 this May 16th letter, I had distributed a few weeks ago
02:34:19 after the county commission took their vote on this agenda
02:34:23 Can you talk about how going forward we will be able to have
02:34:29 more participation in projects such as this when they take
02:34:32 place within those boundaries of the city limits?
02:34:35 >>THOM SNELLING: How council can have more of a role?
02:34:38 I can look into that and ask those questions.
02:34:41 It's not my committee.
02:34:42 It's not to say, okay, come on in. I thought council was
02:34:54 going to go ahead and contact that group.
02:34:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I thought the committee as it was
02:35:02 discussed at county commission, that this committee, whose
02:35:06 members are named on the last page of the handout, was going
02:35:10 to suspend their meetings until such time as this project
02:35:16 was underway, the pilot program was underway, and they saw
02:35:22 the results of that when we convened once the building was
02:35:26 rehabbed and the people moved in and the program was being
02:35:30 operated by.
02:35:36 So I don't know how, if this same committee will come back
02:35:42 in its form or if they are more or less suspending their
02:35:47 meetings until after this program takes place, which is, you
02:35:49 know, probably a year or so from now.
02:35:53 >>THOM SNELLING: Actually, they are hoping, I think, by the
02:35:55 end of the year.
02:35:56 I have it somewhere.
02:36:06 I can go back and find out where those opportunities exist.
02:36:09 I can bring that question back to the group and find out
02:36:11 when they are going to be ramping back up, so to speak, and
02:36:14 that there is an interest from council members to
02:36:20 participate in that.
02:36:21 I can certainly bring that forward.
02:36:22 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And serving on the 100 homes campaign
02:36:26 with the homeless coalition, and you were at the meeting,
02:36:30 can you elaborate on how this is going to fold into that, or
02:36:35 interact with it?
02:36:43 I know you were the pro bono counsel for this.
02:36:50 >>THOM SNELLING: How this is going to integrate with that
02:36:52 100 homes, up on 56th street, I'm not so sure that there
02:36:58 is a direct connection to it.
02:37:00 I would imagine that some of the agencies that we will reach
02:37:03 out and try to work and will continue to do this part of the
02:37:06 program, are some of the same people that were at that
02:37:10 I don't know that there's a direct connection to both
02:37:12 groups, though, Councilwoman.
02:37:13 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilman Suarez and then Councilwoman
02:37:18 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mr. Snelling, thank you for this.
02:37:23 I think it's important that we are doing this.
02:37:25 And I know we are not a partner. In some ways we are a
02:37:32 silent partner because as I understand we aren't providing
02:37:34 There are CDBG grants.
02:37:38 A question about that money that the county was able to get.
02:37:43 Obviously, we have those type of grant moneys, too.
02:37:47 Is it something that was not already expended or authorized
02:37:55 in some other area or something that was --
02:37:58 >>THOM SNELLING: It was money that had not been earmarked
02:38:00 for another project.
02:38:03 I am not going to say they found the money because they knew
02:38:05 they had it.
02:38:06 It had not been designated for another program.
02:38:09 The way that all of our CDBG money is for all programs.
02:38:13 This had not been designated for another program is my
02:38:17 Had there been discussion was a group about some of our
02:38:20 dollars that are part of it for these tape of projects?
02:38:24 Obviously, small projects are easier to get done because you
02:38:26 have got smaller dollars, smaller facilities.
02:38:30 We want to disburse as many people as we can.
02:38:33 We don't want to try to do a warehouse type of facility.
02:38:39 Usually doesn't lend itself to actually helping people get
02:38:42 out of -- off the streets and getting into homes.
02:38:45 So I was listening to you.
02:38:47 But in terms of what we are looking at, as our participation
02:38:52 for the future, what has been discussed?
02:38:57 >> Well, there have been some conversations about various
02:39:02 funding ideas going forward.
02:39:03 They haven't been completely vetted at this point.
02:39:06 But they have certainly had those conversations.
02:39:09 And everybody is listening and entertaining ideas.
02:39:14 The administration knows that there is that need for that,
02:39:20 as you said, silent participation in that.
02:39:24 There's been no specific commitment.
02:39:26 I am not going to act like there has been.
02:39:28 But we certainly had the conversation about funding in the
02:39:31 With this group as well.
02:39:33 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Have there been any sites either found or is
02:39:39 this a continuing process?
02:39:42 Sites that can be rehabbed?
02:39:44 >>THOM SNELLING: It's going to be a continuing process.
02:39:46 They'll come up -- at first -- frankly, we hadn't gone out
02:39:50 and started looking for 24 units, 30 units, 18-unit type
02:39:55 We haven't scrubbed the inventory.
02:39:57 The facilities that we looked at, city stuff, we don't
02:40:02 really have any.
02:40:03 But this was a private owners property, and they are
02:40:08 purchasing it and then rehabbing.
02:40:10 So it's private owned.
02:40:13 That has to take place, and we haven't done that.
02:40:16 >>> And based on what I read on here, that the county has
02:40:21 this $2.1 million that is going towards the purchase of this
02:40:27 property, and I guess some rehabilitation, too?
02:40:30 Or is that the total purchase price?
02:40:35 It says acquisition, and we have a location.
02:40:38 >>THOM SNELLING: Was it broken down?
02:40:39 I thought it was.
02:40:39 >>MIKE SUAREZ: The way it's stated, purchase and
02:40:44 >>THOM SNELLING: It's all of it.
02:40:46 I'm sorry.
02:40:46 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Obviously, you mentioned about Mr. Lewicki
02:40:55 and Mr. Cain about providing private sources.
02:40:59 My that's going to be passed through mental health care so
02:41:02 they can run programs for the 24 beds.
02:41:06 >> For this program, I'm not exactly -- I mean, Noah is the
02:41:12 provider and going to operate that.
02:41:14 Their fundraising can do that.
02:41:15 Going forward in the future, the fund-raising that comes up
02:41:17 depending on which agency you are working with, how that
02:41:23 money gets to them and how it is raised and --
02:41:26 >> Well, hang on a second, Mr. Snelling, because the
02:41:29 question is not about any particular organization that's
02:41:31 going to do go and do it.
02:41:33 You made a comment about Mr. Lewicki and Mr. Cain.
02:41:40 What was that discussion about?
02:41:42 You were kind of nebulous on it.
02:41:44 Is it a commitment to help raise money for more acquisition,
02:41:47 to raise money for more programs, for more -- what is it
02:41:51 that they were actually saying?
02:41:54 >>THOM SNELLING: My impression, it's both for the
02:41:57 acquisition and to help fund the programs.
02:41:59 They understand very clearly that -- it's like anything, you
02:42:05 purchase the property, you have it and it sits there.
02:42:08 But if you don't have the money to operate the programs that
02:42:10 are needed, which are critical to this, because that's what
02:42:13 will keep the people in their home and not become homeless
02:42:16 again, that it will fail.
02:42:18 So it's going to be both.
02:42:20 It's going to be for the facility as well as operating a
02:42:23 >> Now, in terms -- and this is something in your role with
02:42:26 the city -- have we looked at what are -- our ask is going
02:42:33 to be to the federal government concerning these kinds of
02:42:37 Will they smile on us a little better because we are working
02:42:40 in concert with the county, in concert with some of these
02:42:44 individuals, or has that even been discussed yet?
02:42:48 >>THOM SNELLING: We haven't discussed that so I'm not sure
02:42:50 how big of a smile they'll have for us either way.
02:42:53 But we haven't had that conversation.
02:42:55 >> The reason I ask in that particular way is because
02:42:58 obviously there are less and less federal dollars for every
02:43:01 program, let alone programs specifically for the homeless.
02:43:09 If we are in competition with Hillsborough County as opposed
02:43:11 to working together, it should help, I would think.
02:43:15 And the next part of that question is, I notice there was no
02:43:17 one from either city of Temple Terrace or Plant City listed
02:43:21 in here.
02:43:21 I'm not sure if they -- did they make a request not to be
02:43:26 part of it, or just was an oversight on our part?
02:43:31 Not that we necessarily want to place something there, but
02:43:33 we can look at how they may be able to help in providing
02:43:36 funds through their CDBG moneys, if there are any for them,
02:43:41 for this type of purpose.
02:43:42 And, again, hindsight is 20-20 and I am going look over your
02:43:48 shoulder because this is what we do.
02:43:51 So if there is a chance that any other partners are out
02:43:56 there, whether public or private, I think we ought to look
02:44:01 into that.
02:44:02 >>THOM SNELLING: I agree, and I think this group is going to
02:44:04 do that.
02:44:05 You are exactly right.
02:44:05 And to your first point about the collaboration approach,
02:44:09 any grant that I have ever filled out asks, who else are you
02:44:11 collaborating with?
02:44:12 And you typically give a couple of -- get a couple extra
02:44:16 points if you are working with other federal housing
02:44:19 agencies or other housing agencies.
02:44:22 I would say almost without a doubt that a collaborative
02:44:25 approach with Hillsborough County, City of Tampa, Temple
02:44:27 Terrace, Plant City, that a unified effort would be smiled
02:44:32 upon more so than Tampa going by themselves and come
02:44:36 petitioning for the same dollars as Hillsborough County or
02:44:38 Plant City or Temple Terrace.
02:44:40 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair.
02:44:45 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Capin.
02:44:49 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Would it be appropriate to ask a question of
02:44:51 someone that spoke this morning on this subject?
02:44:53 >>HARRY COHEN: I mean, yeah, that's fine.
02:45:02 >> Mr. Rhode.
02:45:09 Hello again.
02:45:10 >> Donny Rhode.
02:45:13 >> This morning you mentioned in your meeting with
02:45:14 commissioner Murman, and you made some statements, and I
02:45:17 want to clarify it.
02:45:19 Your statement to us was that Ms. Murman stated to you that
02:45:27 when you asked why City Council was not involved that the
02:45:33 mayor did not want that.
02:45:37 Did I hear you correctly?
02:45:39 >> I made the statement she made the statement.
02:45:41 She made in the my presence, and that of two of her staff
02:45:44 members and in front of three other people.
02:45:49 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
02:45:49 I just wanted to clarify that, that she did make that
02:45:53 statement and that the mayor did not want City Council
02:45:57 involved in the process.
02:45:58 >> I was hoping you were going to ask me some other
02:46:01 Is that it?
02:46:04 >>YVONNE CAPIN: That's it.
02:46:05 Do you have some other information from your meeting?
02:46:07 >> Two or three -- or a minute?
02:46:14 >>HARRY COHEN: I have been reminded that we said we were
02:46:17 going oh to limit these discussions to keep our --
02:46:21 >>YVONNE CAPIN: That's okay.
02:46:22 What I want to say is that we here on City Council sent a
02:46:28 letter to commissioner Murman because she was the point
02:46:32 person on April 20th, and received on May 17th, and
02:46:39 did not receive a response from her until there were other
02:46:45 requests asking about a response.
02:46:47 But nonetheless, there was a response to my office that we
02:46:53 have a meeting set for next Tuesday, I do believe it is, and
02:47:01 I guess at that time -- so I can report to City Council
02:47:08 whatever there is to report.
02:47:12 But it is very discouraging when we are going to be asked in
02:47:21 the future possibly for funds for allocating funds to
02:47:31 something that -- I'm looking at the participation.
02:47:35 And it was a good question, Plant City and Temple Terrace,
02:47:41 they are part of the county.
02:47:46 Were not involved.
02:47:47 And that to me is very disheartening.
02:47:53 But the program itself, I did have a discussion back in
02:47:57 January, or talk really with Mr. King, back in January, and
02:48:05 didn't know a little bit about what was taking place.
02:48:14 I just think that that would be -- that City Council members
02:48:20 sitting in had -- even if they didn't want to report at the
02:48:26 time could have waited till the end to report, but again, it
02:48:33 is very disappointing.
02:48:35 That's all I have to say.
02:48:36 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
02:48:39 And my question for a point of clarification goes somewhere.
02:48:43 I got confused.
02:48:45 And that is, who has the power or authority to -- because I
02:48:54 keep hearing the commissioner Murman name.
02:48:57 Is she the one responsible for putting people on this
02:49:00 Is that the person?
02:49:01 >> It the county started, but they organized this group, and
02:49:04 they got together, and brought in -- my understanding is it
02:49:10 started with the private sector, and they came to
02:49:12 commissioner Murman.
02:49:13 And then she helped organize it with them.
02:49:15 >>FRANK REDDICK: And then my follow-up is, so it's up to
02:49:20 commissioner Murman, I guess, to determine if a
02:49:25 representative from the city can be a part of that
02:49:30 Is that correct?
02:49:33 >>THOM SNELLING: She's been the lead in this.
02:49:38 She would have some --
02:49:41 >>FRANK REDDICK: Who is the decision making person?
02:49:46 That's what I am trying to get.
02:49:47 Who makes the decisions?
02:49:51 >>THOM SNELLING: Commissioner Murman is the lead in this.
02:49:54 Again, it is a public-private partnership that they are
02:49:58 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
02:50:01 Now --
02:50:05 >> Rumor is because social services have always been a
02:50:10 county function, it's not been a city function, it's
02:50:12 probably why she took the lead.
02:50:14 >>HARRY COHEN: I think there's a member in the committee in
02:50:16 the audience that wants to offer a bit of clarification, if
02:50:18 that would be all right.
02:50:19 >>LISA MONTELIONE: That's what I was trying to stay.
02:50:22 >>FRANK REDDICK: You can clarify this?
02:50:26 Please do.
02:50:26 Because I have a question for you.
02:50:27 >> I came here for -- to vacate on 60 but I wanted to listen
02:50:34 to the presentation. So I'm glad I stayed.
02:50:34 My name is Kami Corbett. I'm a lawyer with the law firm of
02:50:36 Foley and Lardner, and I have been providing pro bono legal
02:50:40 services to the group in particular focusing on the
02:50:44 acquisition and rehab of this 24-unit deal, and I came in
02:50:48 late, but essentially what happened was, the panhandling ban
02:50:55 discussion at the county commission, commissioner Murman
02:50:57 asked Mike Merrill to go to the private sector and ask the
02:51:00 private sector to become involved in looking at this issue
02:51:03 of homelessness.
02:51:04 So essentially she gathered Guy King, Emmy Wilson insurance,
02:51:12 Todd Lewicki of The Lightning, of course, Cal Reed, David
02:51:16 Reed, Ted Delavernia, John Delavernia, and a group of
02:51:21 private sector people, and with the city staff, Thom and his
02:51:25 staff have been there since the very start, and with the
02:51:27 county staff.
02:51:28 Now, I'm not aware of any invitation or slight of any of the
02:51:32 other cities, but really the point of the meetings was to
02:51:36 engage the private sector because the public sector has been
02:51:38 involved in all different levels.
02:51:40 So it was really an engagement of the private sector.
02:51:44 There's no formalized committee.
02:51:46 One of the important things, the realizations we came to
02:51:49 within the last couple of months of meeting was that one of
02:51:52 the most important things we could do was not compete with
02:51:55 other homeless organizations and not compete with the
02:51:58 homeless coalition but instead collaborate, and so although
02:52:01 there had been discussion at some point in time in creating
02:52:04 a nonprofit, a new nonprofit to implement housing first, the
02:52:08 private sector basically looked and said we don't need to
02:52:11 have another nonprofit, we have plenty of great qualified
02:52:15 nonprofits, we just need to be a support group to them. So
02:52:20 that group is soliciting ideas from no matter what city you
02:52:24 live in, what position you hold, and there's no one person
02:52:28 in control.
02:52:29 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right.
02:52:33 You are on that committee?
02:52:35 >> Yes.
02:52:36 >>FRANK REDDICK: So you meet with that committee, correct?
02:52:39 >> Yes.
02:52:40 >>FRANK REDDICK: Is it possible that you can go back to
02:52:42 that committee, irregardless of what the mayor had to say,
02:52:48 he can't dictate what council does or does not do, if you
02:52:53 can go back to that committee and say the City Council would
02:52:57 like to have a representative serve on that committee, and
02:53:01 that we need an answer from that committee?
02:53:04 >> I will certainly carry the message back.
02:53:06 Again, this is not a formalized committee.
02:53:08 >> Who called the meeting to order?
02:53:10 >> Who called the meeting to order?
02:53:12 >>FRANK REDDICK: Correct.
02:53:13 >> It depends.
02:53:14 Guy king, one of the private sector people, but it's usually
02:53:18 an informal thing but I am happy to carry the message back
02:53:21 to the group and we'll report back to City Council either
02:53:23 individually or --
02:53:25 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right.
02:53:26 And if council wants a member on that committee, because if
02:53:35 council is allocating funds or approving funds, I think you
02:53:39 ought to have somebody on that committee that they are
02:53:41 reaching out.
02:53:41 Now, it doesn't make a difference who on this council serves
02:53:44 on that committee.
02:53:45 But --
02:53:49 >> You want to be at the table.
02:53:50 >> We want to be at the table.
02:53:52 And we are putting that ever so politely and kindly
02:53:56 suggesting to you, since you are the representative, one of
02:53:58 the private representatives on that council, to say, go back
02:54:01 to the table and tell them we would like to have a member
02:54:03 from this council sit on that committee.
02:54:06 >> I will carry that message back, but I do believe that
02:54:10 Councilwoman Capin is having a meeting with all those folks
02:54:14 real soon.
02:54:18 I'll carry the message back but I think that meeting will
02:54:20 probably be productive for you.
02:54:22 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right.
02:54:24 And so Councilwoman Capin meet with commissioner Murman,
02:54:29 she's going to express that to her, and a member of this
02:54:33 council expressing to you, and coming back two times.
02:54:36 So the next time we have another report, we should have an
02:54:41 answer from that committee, somebody, to say, tell us no,
02:54:49 you don't want a representative, but we don't want a mayor
02:54:52 telling us we can't serve on that committee.
02:54:54 >> I got the message.
02:54:57 >>FRANK REDDICK: We are an independent body.
02:54:59 So we need that committee to tell us we don't want you, not
02:55:04 the mayor to not put us on there.
02:55:07 >> I will definitely take that message back because we
02:55:09 certainly don't want to take away from the good work we are
02:55:12 trying to do, and as far as the 100 homes or thousand homes,
02:55:17 we are going coordinate with that.
02:55:20 Be in a collaborative mode, not through community wide, not
02:55:23 just City Council but with the rest of the community as
02:55:25 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you, Mr. Reddick.
02:55:29 Is that all on this item?
02:55:30 We do have --
02:55:33 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Just one last thing.
02:55:36 Everyone wanting to work on the cause of homelessness, and
02:55:41 helping those less fortunate than ourselves, is a fabulous,
02:55:45 wonderful thing.
02:55:49 I don't want to turn this into what traditionally has been
02:55:52 the county versus the city and stir up those types of old
02:56:02 demons again in that the city and county don't work well
02:56:07 together or refuse to work together or any such discussion
02:56:10 of the like.
02:56:11 I have met with commissioner Murman several times over the
02:56:15 past several months, and when we meet, you know, we talk
02:56:21 about the issues that she's working on, we talk about the
02:56:24 issues that I'm working on, and there's a general discussion
02:56:28 of what we are wanting to see great things from both the
02:56:34 city and the county and our collaboration.
02:56:37 The letter that Mr. Snelling brought to us this morning, I
02:56:41 distributed at our City Council meeting on May 10th.
02:56:44 So none of this information is new to us.
02:56:48 One of the things Mr. Suarez talked about was the
02:56:52 fund-raising, and the paragraph on the last page just before
02:56:56 it names the key members, once this pilot program is shown
02:57:00 to be successful, we will reach out to the private sector in
02:57:05 a fund-raising campaign to create the capital for more
02:57:08 small-scale scattered site apartment buildings in the county
02:57:12 and the city.
02:57:15 These additional and small scattered apartment buildings
02:57:18 will be located throughout the county and city, not
02:57:20 concentrated in any one area, with the goal of creating 500
02:57:23 units over the next five years.
02:57:25 So they are going to go forward.
02:57:30 They are going to wait till the pilot program has been ha
02:57:35 shown to be successful, and there will be opportunities, I'm
02:57:38 sure, in the future for us when that time comes to
02:57:41 participate, because you know when people are fund-raising,
02:57:45 they have always got their hand out and they are looking for
02:57:48 as many people to participate in that reaching their goals
02:57:51 as possible.
02:57:52 And Ms. Corbett brought up the 100 homes campaign is the
02:58:00 committee that is formulating the ten-year plan for
02:58:04 addressing homelessness in our community, and as she said,
02:58:08 all of the efforts that are going on whether it's the city
02:58:12 or the county or the private sector are going to fall in
02:58:17 line with what this group of 100 homeless coalition -- 100
02:58:26 homes is going to recommend in the ten-year plan.
02:58:30 And that ten-year plan, if I am correct, is going to have to
02:58:34 be passed by the jurisdictions?
02:58:36 It's going to have to be endorsed by the jurisdictions?
02:58:39 >> Yes. Yes, it is.
02:58:40 >> So when the 100 homes Tampa and Hillsborough County
02:58:44 priority community initiative is actually the official name
02:58:48 of it, when the Tampa and Hillsborough County priority
02:58:52 community initiative document is created for the ten-year
02:58:57 plan, it will come before council, we'll have the
02:58:59 opportunity to comment on it, to add to it, to participate
02:59:03 in that process, and just for the record, as a disclaimer, I
02:59:08 am a member of the steering committee of this Tampa and
02:59:11 Hillsborough County priority community initiative.
02:59:17 This committee here, as far as I understand it, is suspended
02:59:20 until the pilot program is proven to be successful as it
02:59:23 says in the last paragraph on the third page.
02:59:25 The ten-year plan is the interagency council on
02:59:31 The U.s. department of Housing and Urban Development, and
02:59:34 the stakeholders, not-profit, for-profit, governmental
02:59:40 entities coming together to device the ten-year plan to
02:59:43 address homelessness in our community.
02:59:46 Charrettes are being held by an organization that has
02:59:49 performed this in many other cities.
02:59:56 The name of the company is CHS charrettes is the name of the
03:00:00 And we meet on a very regular basis.
03:00:03 So we are participating.
03:00:05 I don't want to give anybody in the general public the idea
03:00:09 that the City Council or any of our staff is sitting on
03:00:13 their hands and the county is leading the charge and doing
03:00:17 all the heavy lifting.
03:00:18 >>HARRY COHEN: Is there any other comment on this item?
03:00:25 >>YVONNE CAPIN: No.
03:00:27 As you well know, I have not been well, and I need to
03:00:33 really -- I'm feeling it and I need to --
03:00:38 >>HARRY COHEN: Well, we have two more items.
03:00:41 Item number 57.
03:00:45 And then two matters to receive and file.
03:00:48 So we should be done quickly.
03:00:57 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Assistant city attorney here to speak on
03:00:59 the first part, part A of item 57.
03:01:06 You are asking about anything that we can do between the
03:01:08 time that the city abates property by either mowing it,
03:01:14 picking up accumulation, securing, and the time that we
03:01:17 leave it.
03:01:18 We begin by kind of going over what our current process is.
03:01:21 Current process after the city abates the property is they
03:01:25 send an invoice.
03:01:26 They have 30 days within which to either pay that invoice or
03:01:30 challenge that invoice.
03:01:31 If they do neither, then at that point we go ahead and we
03:01:38 lien the costs against the property.
03:01:39 Now, the department of code enforcement sends out a request.
03:01:43 The request that was asked for about what other agencies do
03:01:49 to correct the costs after they have abated, that was sent
03:01:53 out to the Florida Association of Code Enforcement and the
03:01:56 Tampa Bay Association of Code Enforcement.
03:02:00 Have not gotten a lot of response back.
03:02:02 And my guess is because they are doing the same thing we
03:02:05 One thing I want to kind of let you know is we want to get
03:02:08 that property liened with those costs.
03:02:11 If they don't pay it as soon as possible -- because we don't
03:02:15 want that property to somehow transfer and then we are
03:02:18 trying to lien the property under a new property owner with
03:02:21 those costs that were incurred with the previous property
03:02:24 So upon invoicing, you know, if they don't pay it, they
03:02:29 don't challenge it, we are going to want to get that liened
03:02:33 as soon as possible.
03:02:35 So I don't know if there's anything further.
03:02:37 I just want to report.
03:02:38 You were looking for a report back on what we have been able
03:02:41 to accomplish.
03:02:41 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mr. Mueller, a quick question.
03:02:44 In relation to bank-owned foreclosures in which they are
03:02:52 not, you know, maintaining the property in some way, and we
03:02:55 have a lien, what happens in the case of when that bank has
03:03:00 either foreclosed and then resold that property?
03:03:05 Are we one of the first lienholders to get paid?
03:03:09 Are we one of the last ones? How does that work?
03:03:13 >>ERNEST MUELLER: That's a two-part question there.
03:03:15 If the property, let's say, is in foreclosure at the time
03:03:18 that we abate it, and of course what we have done there is
03:03:21 we have tried to get that bank through the court registry
03:03:26 ordinance to do some abatement, but if it doesn't work and
03:03:29 we have to abate it we'll lien it, and it's our position
03:03:32 that if that lien survives our foreclosure, it will stay in
03:03:37 touch with that property, and if the bank gets the property
03:03:40 through the foreclosure process and then transfer it, we
03:03:45 should be getting paid at that time.
03:03:48 >>MIKE SUAREZ: You just said it is our position.
03:03:50 That is not decided law by courts right now?
03:03:53 Or is it still nebulous?
03:03:55 What's going on?
03:03:56 >>ERNEST MUELLER: It's a bit murky.
03:04:02 But we feel strongly because a lot of our abatement
03:04:04 prprocesses were initially created by special acts where the
03:04:11 legislatures specifically stated that our liens, our
03:04:15 abatement alliance liens and demolition will have the same
03:04:18 priority as taxes or at least everything but taxes, it uses
03:04:24 both languages, that we would survive.
03:04:27 That's been our position.
03:04:31 There have been communities out there that don't have the
03:04:33 benefit of that special act that have lost and have had
03:04:37 their costs foreclosed out.
03:04:39 Fortunately we haven't had that occur yet.
03:04:41 But I'm not trying to tempt fate.
03:04:43 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
03:04:45 You don't want to tempt the legal God that something bad is
03:04:48 going to happen.
03:04:49 Thank you.
03:04:49 >>LISA MONTELIONE: This is my file.
03:04:55 And I didn't start this file the first day we tack office.
03:04:59 So it's not quite all of the liens that we have.
03:05:05 But I go through every time one comes up.
03:05:08 And to Mr -- could toxic chemicals Councilman Suarez's
03:05:14 point, looking through, there are many properties here that
03:05:18 are owned by banks.
03:05:20 There are many properties here that are owned by investment
03:05:25 There's one company in particular that's been written about
03:05:29 in the news that is in the business of picking up properties
03:05:38 for tax deeds.
03:05:40 And this article says that last week -- and this is dated
03:05:45 December 7, 2009, so they have been in this business for
03:05:49 quite awhile -- last week, more than 150 central Florida
03:05:53 properties valued at $19.4 million were picked up by this
03:05:56 one company.
03:05:58 And their company, if you look through these files, appears
03:06:00 again and again and again and again.
03:06:03 So I would imagine that when the properties foreclosure,
03:06:14 that all liens fall into the same position as the tax deed.
03:06:20 We don't know if the tax that is due on that property will
03:06:26 exceed our lien, and we will never see a dime.
03:06:29 And I think I believe I heard Mr. Rotero say you went back
03:06:34 three years and you had $90 million in outstanding liens and
03:06:38 we had only collected in that same three-year period about
03:06:44 So liens don't work.
03:06:46 I don't care if we are in the first position or we are in
03:06:48 the last position.
03:06:50 Liens don't work.
03:06:51 We have $90 million worth of liens in three years and we
03:06:56 collected $5400 so we have to find another way to handle
03:06:59 this problem.
03:07:00 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Well, if I can, we are addressing that,
03:07:03 number one.
03:07:04 Number two, those numbers weren't exactly -- my office has
03:07:08 collected more than $54,000 of liens in the past three
03:07:12 What was asked to be looked at may have fallen into 54,000
03:07:16 which was of the liens imposed in the last year.
03:07:18 >> If you can come back with accurate numbers on the dollar
03:07:24 amount of the liens that we have imposed on properties, both
03:07:30 the mowing abatement and demolition, and the amount of money
03:07:33 we have been able to collect, so we are looking at apples to
03:07:38 apples, so that we can know whether or not this program is
03:07:41 effective, and this method is effective, or we have to find
03:07:45 some other way.
03:07:46 >>ERNEST MUELLER: And let me talk a little bit.
03:07:48 What we want to do, what we are focusing on is trying to get
03:07:51 the property owners to abate that property before we have
03:07:55 When I first got here, the stats would have been much bigger
03:08:01 than that.
03:08:02 Then we implemented the civil citation process.
03:08:06 When that started rung up and getting going, they would
03:08:09 start issuing civil citations to these property owners to
03:08:13 mow or to abate or to secure.
03:08:15 And that had an in reducing the number of liens, of the hard
03:08:21 cost liens.
03:08:22 Then we implemented after that the foreclosure registry,
03:08:25 which went after the banks.
03:08:27 And when the code enforcement department could identify that
03:08:30 this was a property in foreclosure and vacant, the bank was
03:08:34 responsible for abating those conditions, and that had
03:08:38 somewhat of an impact at reducing.
03:08:40 Just last year, late 2011, City Council implemented a change
03:08:47 in chapter 19 that allows the department director Jake
03:08:52 Slater to issue orders to abate, orders to secure, that will
03:08:57 go to property owners, and it will be posted on the
03:09:00 property, which we hope will also have a motivating effect,
03:09:07 by getting that property owner to abate that property before
03:09:10 we have to -- that order tells them that they have to do it.
03:09:14 If they don't abate it, the city is going to, and we are
03:09:17 going to bill them for the cost, plus the administrative
03:09:20 fee, fanned they don't pay that invoice, it will be lind.
03:09:24 It's all spelled out for them.
03:09:26 We are hoping that process will help motivate some more
03:09:30 liens so we can reduce it even further, the number of liens.
03:09:33 But we have had a reduction in the amount of liens in the
03:09:35 last few years.
03:09:36 >> I'm glad that we are making progress.
03:09:40 Another process question I have, and I believe every time we
03:09:42 talk about code enforcement I ask the same question.
03:09:46 What process do we go through to contact the people before
03:09:51 we lien the property?
03:09:52 And you just spoke to some of that.
03:09:54 However, I mean, I'm looking at orders to abate as recently
03:09:59 as -- this is March.
03:10:03 I have got others here, but March of 2012.
03:10:07 And I recognize names on this list.
03:10:14 And they are in the phone book, I know where their office
03:10:20 There are a couple of these entities that we do business
03:10:24 We bought properties from them.
03:10:25 The city has purchased properties from them.
03:10:27 They have received contracts from us for a variety of
03:10:32 different work.
03:10:36 You know, $430, I can get in my car and go knock on their
03:10:40 front door or pick up the phone and call the person that I
03:10:43 know who works here and say, you know, you owe us money
03:10:46 because of the property that -- or why aren't you mowing the
03:10:53 land and keeping up this property?
03:10:55 I know we are short staffed but in some cases it's almost
03:10:58 embarrassing that we continue to do business with these
03:11:00 companies that owe us money.
03:11:02 And I talked to Mr. Vaughan about this yesterday when we met
03:11:07 on the contract matter, but I don't understand how come
03:11:12 there are companies in here that we obviously know how to
03:11:14 contact that we are filing liens against.
03:11:20 >>ERNEST MUELLER: I can't speak to that.
03:11:22 That's not really a legal department issue.
03:11:24 >>LISA MONTELIONE: It is.
03:11:27 Mr. O'Hara.
03:11:28 >> Dennis O'Hara: I am here on item D as well.
03:11:34 On the items that Mrs. Montelione spoke about, the CFO's
03:11:37 office is actually right now just started a couple of weeks
03:11:40 ago reviewing exactly what she stated.
03:11:43 Both entities that the city itself does business with that
03:11:47 owe the city funding associated with code enforcement.
03:11:50 That review is going on as we speak.
03:11:52 So it's a very good observation and we are aggressively
03:11:55 pursuing that.
03:11:56 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So if I reach out to some of these
03:12:00 people that I happen to know on this list, is there a
03:12:02 problem with me picking up the phone and calling them and
03:12:05 saying, hey, you owe us this money, can you pay off this
03:12:09 >> I would defer to the legal department on that.
03:12:11 >>LISA MONTELIONE: He don't want to get myself into any
03:12:18 >> The short answer is that exceeds your role in the
03:12:22 >> So if I happen to see them and run into them,
03:12:32 >> I can say if you did call those entities, they either
03:12:35 have or are about to hear from the city administration on
03:12:39 just that issue.
03:12:42 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Because I bring up that every single
03:12:43 time we talk about.
03:12:44 This thanks.
03:12:45 >> O'Hara: You are very welcome.
03:12:51 >> I will let him finish part B and then ask him a question.
03:12:55 Part B, council, recommended mechanism where any revenues
03:13:00 from citations, et cetera be, be the full use of the code
03:13:05 enforcement department.
03:13:06 In reality the sad fact of the matter is that's exactly
03:13:09 what's occurring right now.
03:13:10 All revenue that they initiate goes to the code enforcement
03:13:14 Unfortunately it only funds about a third of their
03:13:18 They are not designed to be more anticipated to be
03:13:22 self-sufficient, so they get a little over 2 million, almost
03:13:26 2.5 million of the general fund transfer just this year to
03:13:29 fund their operations.
03:13:32 So they just don't bring in necessary enough to fund their
03:13:35 own operations.
03:13:36 So what they do bring in is dedicated to them but they get a
03:13:42 significant transfer from the general fund.
03:13:45 In this environment, it's challenging just to maintain
03:13:48 resources, let alone increase resources.
03:13:51 But those are really the only two options for code
03:13:54 enforcement, is to increase the general fund transfer to the
03:13:57 division, which of course would have ramifications in other
03:14:00 areas when we are discussing a $30 million shortfall, or
03:14:05 insulate them from any deductions, and all of those things
03:14:11 are in discussion as we prep for next year's fiscal budget.
03:14:15 >>MIKE SUAREZ: A quick question.
03:14:18 I don't know what the answer on this one is going to be.
03:14:21 But back to sort of how we collect, and when we are talking
03:14:25 about companies that we have relationships with, meaning we
03:14:29 have contracts with or any other thing, is there any
03:14:33 mechanism now legally for us to say you cannot do business
03:14:36 with us, period?
03:14:39 >> I do not know the answer to that.
03:14:41 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I see two lawyers out there.
03:14:43 >> My guess is, like in every other contract that we have,
03:15:01 usually, we have to make sure that their bills are paid
03:15:05 before we continue top pay them.
03:15:08 I think we have that, and we have this case in terms of some
03:15:12 of the police protection that we provide off-duty police
03:15:17 officers and stuff, that they do keep track of that and
03:15:20 I would assume that we could do that, if there isn't any
03:15:23 language in there now, we could probably find a way of
03:15:25 chaining that.
03:15:26 Because I think Ms. Montelione's point is well taken which
03:15:30 is why are we going to continue to do business with people
03:15:32 who don't pay us what we are owed?
03:15:35 And this is something that's kind of separate from that
03:15:38 portion of it which is those banking institutions, you know.
03:15:41 I know we have some banking relationships, I would love to
03:15:44 see us make sure that they cannot have any more banking
03:15:46 relationships with us, or provide any banking services to
03:15:50 us, unless they are able to pay off or abate those
03:15:55 properties that they own now.
03:15:58 I mean, I think it's fair play.
03:16:00 There may be some legal issues with that.
03:16:02 I'm not sure.
03:16:03 But again, this is one of these things where we don't want
03:16:06 to be the sucker at the end of the line here, and
03:16:09 unfortunately because we are government, and we have to
03:16:11 provide services, we are not like an individual business
03:16:14 that can say, you know what?
03:16:16 I'm not going to do anything because you haven't paid me
03:16:19 yet, you know.
03:16:20 They have these liens all the time.
03:16:22 So I'm just thinking that we have a tendency, because of the
03:16:26 nature of what we do, to allow people to continue to do what
03:16:30 they do without the correct type of collection process in
03:16:34 place, because we don't make money, okay.
03:16:38 We only collect money.
03:16:40 And collections are the worst things that you can do,
03:16:43 because you are not making money.
03:16:44 And until we start looking at how revenue is generated in
03:16:48 terms of these types of liens -- and again this is not to
03:16:55 anyone in this room or this administration, because I know
03:16:57 that's a difficult process to change, because we have been
03:17:00 doing it for a long time and we have to figure out new ways
03:17:03 to get these dollars in here -- is that we just need to be a
03:17:07 little bit more cognizant of that so that we are not
03:17:09 continuing, you know, pushing paper from one side of the
03:17:12 desk to the other because somebody has got another lien, and
03:17:16 we haven't a baited the property yet.
03:17:18 But thank you for that.
03:17:19 >> In response to what's been discussed here, I have a
03:17:25 question for Mr. Shelby.
03:17:28 Would it be possible for City Council to pass an ordinance
03:17:32 that did not -- that specifically stated that if a business
03:17:38 were in arrears to the city under circumstances the city
03:17:42 would be prohibited from doing business with them?
03:17:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I would believe so.
03:17:47 I think there may be some instances where that is the case.
03:17:52 I'm not quite sure.
03:17:53 We can do research on that.
03:17:55 Certainly, that can be investigated and we can report back
03:17:57 to City Council on that.
03:17:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Would you like to make that in the form
03:18:02 of a motion?
03:18:05 >>MIKE SUAREZ: You do it and I'll second it.
03:18:07 >> Or do it the other way around.
03:18:09 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Can I make a motion to do what he said?
03:18:12 >>HARRY COHEN: Absolutely.
03:18:15 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I would like to motion that legal report
03:18:17 back to us with a staff report, researching an ordinance
03:18:22 whereby we as a city would be prohibited from entering into
03:18:26 a contract with any company or entity that is in arrears to
03:18:33 the city.
03:18:35 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I second that.
03:18:42 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Do I need a date and time?
03:18:45 How about June -- I think we loaded up June 7th pretty
03:18:51 June 28th?
03:18:53 June 28th.
03:18:54 >> I prefer earlier.
03:18:58 What the heck?
03:18:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: June 28th.
03:19:03 Did you second it?
03:19:05 June 28th at 10 a.m.
03:19:08 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I'll second it.
03:19:09 >>HARRY COHEN: Any further discussion?
03:19:12 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I want to clarify one thing because I'm
03:19:15 You had said Mr. O'Hara that they are receiving a general
03:19:20 fund transfer.
03:19:22 Revenue they collect goes back to them through a general
03:19:24 fund transfer.
03:19:26 Does that -- because the money is going into the general
03:19:29 fund, it is dependent upon a transfer of funds into the code
03:19:34 enforcement budget?
03:19:35 Does that mean that general funds can transfers can be made,
03:19:41 to some other department?
03:19:44 What I am going, I am looking for a dedicated source.
03:19:47 I'm looking for -- there is no other department that will
03:19:50 get any of these funds other than code enforcement?
03:19:55 >> That's correct.
03:19:56 That's correct.
03:19:57 No other department plans to get any revenues initiate bid
03:20:02 code enforcement.
03:20:04 Code enforcement gets it all.
03:20:05 They just don't get enough to fund themselves so they need
03:20:07 additional funding.
03:20:09 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I guess it was the general fund transfer
03:20:12 that threw me off.
03:20:13 >> I'm sorry.
03:20:14 >>LISA MONTELIONE: To me, they get a general fund transfer
03:20:17 next year but next year it's going to go to somebody else.
03:20:20 >> No, I'm sorry, I apologize.
03:20:24 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Dedicated revenue extreme?
03:20:26 >> Yes, ma'am.
03:20:27 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion on the floor by
03:20:29 Councilwoman Montelione, seconded by Councilman Suarez.
03:20:32 Is there any further discussion on that motion?
03:20:34 Seeing none all in favor pleas indicate by saying aye.
03:20:40 Motion passes and we will be hearing that staff report.
03:20:43 Ms. Coyle is here on part C of number 57.
03:20:46 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Planning manager for the city.
03:20:50 I will be brief.
03:20:51 The last report that we gave, we talked about a couple of
03:20:54 different concepts for this particular tape of enforcement
03:20:57 on snipe signs and the first thing I mentioned in the
03:21:00 previous one is that snipe signs are declared literally,
03:21:03 they are debris, and they can be removed.
03:21:06 We are exploring -- I believe Mr. Slater mentioned to you
03:21:11 that there are potential issues with identifying who owns
03:21:14 the signs, who is the beneficial, but he wanted to try a
03:21:18 couple of different test projects to see if that auto dial
03:21:22 back directory could work, cold calling these locations and
03:21:25 so on, to identify who these beneficiaries are.
03:21:29 With that said, we do have some general concepts that we are
03:21:32 looking to potentially bring forward.
03:21:33 Obviously keeping the signs declared as literally, they can
03:21:36 be picked up.
03:21:44 Who is it that Stefas benefit, identifying best practice
03:21:46 which is what Mr. Slater's group right now is doing.
03:21:50 We are pretty much in consensus of using the citation
03:21:53 process as opposed to trying to get these to the code
03:21:56 enforcement process.
03:21:57 That way you have an immediate citation.
03:21:59 If we can immediate reply identify who placed the signs or
03:22:03 the beneficiary of that sign.
03:22:06 We are also potentially exploring other options just as you
03:22:09 were talking about before somehow coming up with a mechanism
03:22:18 to build those beneficiaries back for us removing the signs
03:22:21 as well.
03:22:22 Those are the things we are trying to identify now and it
03:22:24 looks like we can probably identify those for the next cycle
03:22:27 which would be July in order to come up with that language.
03:22:29 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Montelione.
03:22:35 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I was contacted by Mr. Grant Walters who
03:22:40 is here with us in the audience today, and he is the
03:22:45 president of the citrus park civic association in
03:22:48 unincorporated Hillsborough County.
03:22:50 What I passed over and it will eventually make its way to
03:22:54 you, Mr. Suarez, is a piece that Hillsborough County has
03:23:00 produced called battling illegal snipe signs.
03:23:03 And the program that Hillsborough County has is called
03:23:09 volunteers in public service, which is the IPS.
03:23:15 They use volunteers, as asked before and brought up before.
03:23:19 These volunteers to pick up the snipe signs, and they
03:23:23 have -- Mr. Walters and I discussed this at length
03:23:28 There are about 18 volunteers who are participating
03:23:33 currently in the program.
03:23:34 And they picked up last month, so this is recent
03:23:42 information, 18 people picked up 4,715 signs.
03:23:47 A few months ago it was in excess of 7,000 signs.
03:23:52 18 people volunteered.
03:23:55 This to me is a fantastic program, because it doesn't cost
03:24:01 the county very much money at all.
03:24:04 What it costs them is time to process the application that
03:24:11 is developed.
03:24:14 They issue an identification badge.
03:24:17 So very little expense there.
03:24:20 And they do a background check just as any other service
03:24:26 volunteer would expect to have.
03:24:30 We discussed many different options that were available.
03:24:35 But this seems to be a great program.
03:24:39 And what I would like to have, and I am going to make this
03:24:42 in the form of a motion, I would like for staff to review
03:24:48 the county's program for the volunteer and public service
03:24:54 I would like for staff to review the county's policy on
03:25:01 illegal snipe signs, and the materials they produced in
03:25:07 order to have this program work -- how this program works.
03:25:13 I would like for that to Compaq on June 28th at 10 a.m.
03:25:17 So we already have that date.
03:25:20 And when they come back, I would really like to invite Mr.
03:25:25 Walters, who is a valued volunteer in Hillsborough County,
03:25:28 not only in his service as civic association president, but
03:25:32 also a person who has been volunteering with the VIPS
03:25:39 program in Hillsborough County to talk about his experiences
03:25:41 and how it works in the field in real life rather than just
03:25:46 hearing a staff report of theoretically how it can work.
03:25:51 >> We have a motion from Councilwoman Montelione, seconded
03:25:54 by Councilman Suarez.
03:25:55 Discussion on the motion?
03:25:56 Councilwoman Capin.
03:25:58 >> These signs include garage sales signs that have an arrow
03:26:05 pointing this way to the garage sale?
03:26:07 So you could immediately find the beneficiary.
03:26:14 It's not rocket science.
03:26:19 That would be the only sign that I think I would object to,
03:26:22 because that's a neighborhood -- could you tell me?
03:26:31 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
03:26:36 We can't -- we can only worry about whether or not the signs
03:26:40 are placed in a location that are not legal.
03:26:42 Now, we do, in our code, have an exception for garage sales.
03:26:48 But keep in mind that we have to -- of what we do from a
03:26:52 citation perspective or whatever else that we put in our
03:26:55 code has to be content neutral.
03:26:57 Thank you.
03:26:59 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
03:27:00 The minute I saw her walking up. Anyway, since we do have
03:27:08 an exception in our code, I have nothing else.
03:27:13 >>HARRY COHEN: Is there any further discussion?
03:27:16 If not, we have a motion on the floor by Councilwoman
03:27:18 Montelione, seconded by Councilman Suarez.
03:27:20 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
03:27:24 Okay, then, we will be hearing about that again on June
03:27:29 Item number 58 is Jean Duncan to appear and provide a report
03:27:34 regarding funding sources for reflective -- and I think you
03:27:44 have a report.
03:27:45 >> I believe that report should have been received and
03:27:47 filed, or received in your packets.
03:27:49 >>HARRY COHEN: Yes.
03:27:51 >>JEAN DUNCAN: Thank you, council.
03:27:54 Jean Duncan, transportation division. I was here recently
03:28:01 with a representative of the Hillsborough MPO, Gina, and
03:28:06 officer Delgado of