TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, September 27, 2012
9:00 a.m. Session
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09:06:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: City Council is called to order.
09:06:26 The chair yields to Mr. Frank Reddick.
09:06:28 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
09:06:30 It's an honor to have present today Bishop-elect Patty who
09:06:35 is a licensed ordained minister.
09:06:41 Bishop elect Patty is with First Victory of Faith Cathedral.
09:06:48 She was also the only African-American woman to carry the
09:06:54 torch for outstanding service.
09:06:59 It's a great honor to have her here to lead us in the
09:07:02 invocation and pledge of allegiance.
09:07:03 Please stand.
09:07:04 >> Good morning.
09:07:10 Our father, the creator of heaven and earth.
09:07:14 Father God, we come to you right now in the humblest manner
09:07:18 we know how to say thank you for your grace and your mercy.
09:07:22 Father God, we pray for world peace right now.
09:07:24 We pray for every department, Father God, asking that you
09:07:29 just bless them, those that make up the business of this
09:07:33 Father God, we pray for the mayor, we pray for each City
09:07:38 Council person, asking that you give them the wisdom,
09:07:41 compassion, and the courage to do what is right for the
09:07:44 citizens of Tampa.
09:07:46 Now, father, we ask a special blessing for our seniors and
09:07:50 our youth.
09:07:51 Amen, amen, amen.
09:07:53 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:08:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Roll call.
09:08:16 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
09:08:20 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Present.
09:08:20 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
09:08:23 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
09:08:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:08:27 I need approval of the minutes for February 2nd.
09:08:31 Regular meeting of September 6th.
09:08:33 Moved by Mr. Reddick, seconded by Mr. Cohen.
09:08:35 All in favor?
09:08:37 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:08:39 We go now to our ceremonial activities, and to item number
09:08:43 1, a presentation, commendation by Mrs. Yolie Capin to our
09:08:48 attorney and the legal department of James Shimberg, and we
09:08:51 are going to move item number 4 to 1-A, that will be the
09:08:54 presentation of a great job done by the chairman RNC, Mr. Al
09:08:59 Austin, to be done by Mr. Frank Reddick.
09:09:11 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I just want to say a couple of words here.
09:09:14 Our city attorney and the office of Mr. Shimberg and his
09:09:18 staff personally, and we here at council, appreciate the
09:09:24 diligent efforts and -- to a sure civility and protect the
09:09:35 people's rights during the Republican national convention
09:09:41 and here every day in our fair City of Tampa.
09:09:46 And it is my privilege to present you with this commendation
09:09:49 and I will read it briefly here.
09:09:51 Tampa City Council recognizes the performance of the city
09:09:54 attorney's office and its staff members in preparing and
09:09:58 carrying out their duties pertaining to the Republican
09:10:02 national convention held recently in Tampa.
09:10:04 They were extremely diligent in assuring that the rights of
09:10:07 individuals were observed by making themselves available
09:10:10 night and day during the convention, to assist law
09:10:13 enforcement in its duty, that the convention went off as
09:10:17 smoothly as it did is a testament to the diligence,
09:10:20 preparedness and concern within the city attorney's office
09:10:23 in both welcoming visitors to our city while assuring the
09:10:26 rights of all.
09:10:28 Tampa City Council acknowledges the work of city attorney
09:10:31 James Shimberg and his staff and congratulates them on a job
09:10:36 well done.
09:10:37 Thank you.
09:10:38 [ Applause ]
09:10:44 >>JIM SHIMBERG: Thank you very much.
09:10:54 This is truly a team effort.
09:10:56 And I would like to ask the members of the City of Tampa
09:10:59 legal department that are in the audience to please stand up
09:11:01 and be recognized in the room.
09:11:05 [ Applause ]
09:11:06 It was not just the legal department.
09:11:11 It was a lot of other city departments that all pitched in,
09:11:14 and a great effort and teamwork to show that we can pull
09:11:19 this convention off and we can do it and make Tampa look
09:11:22 great and all be proud on the international stage.
09:11:24 So I want to thank all of you for your effort.
09:11:27 I want to thank our staff and the other city departments and
09:11:29 especially the leadership of Santiago Corrada and the
09:11:34 mayor's staff who did an excellent job as well.
09:11:38 Thank you for this recognition.
09:11:39 We appreciate it.
09:11:40 [ Applause ]
09:11:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Reddick.
09:11:43 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:11:48 It's my honor to present to Al Austin, who brought the
09:11:59 Republican convention to Tampa.
09:12:01 We want to thank you for bringing that economic boost to our
09:12:05 city, and the Tampa City Council wanted to recognize you and
09:12:10 as the chairman of the host committee, and all of those who
09:12:13 assisted you in making this convention possible.
09:12:17 It was very, very successful.
09:12:18 We just wanted to honor you on behalf of the host committee,
09:12:22 on behalf of the City of Tampa, and I would like to read
09:12:26 this briefly, in recognition of Al Austin for your great
09:12:30 effort in bringing the Republican national convention to the
09:12:33 City of Tampa and serve as the chairman of the local 2012
09:12:36 host committee.
09:12:38 Tampa City Council would like to take this opportunity to
09:12:39 applaud and congratulate you for your visionary leadership,
09:12:43 energy and service.
09:12:47 We admire all you have done to make the City of Tampa shine
09:12:50 and I'm proud to have you as a resident in this community.
09:12:53 Tampa City Council extends best wishes to you as you
09:12:56 continue to help move our city forward, and thank you for
09:12:58 your commitment in making our city a better place to live,
09:13:02 work and play.
09:13:04 [ Applause ]
09:13:14 >> Al Austin: Let me thank all of you for everything you
09:13:20 did to help make this an outstanding event.
09:13:22 We had a few bumps in the road, unexpected hurricane that
09:13:26 passed Tampa, the Tampa Bay area.
09:13:32 As most of us who have been involved in getting this
09:13:34 convention here, one of the biggest obstacles was convincing
09:13:38 the decision makers of that we wouldn't have a hurricane in
09:13:41 And we didn't have it, and we haven't had one here for 100
09:13:46 I hope that record will stay in place and not be broken.
09:13:51 What is so great about this opportunity to showcase the
09:13:54 Tampa Bay area to the world with 18,000 members of the
09:13:59 media, it was an opportunity of a lifetime, and we tried
09:14:03 three times as many of you know to bring it here, because
09:14:06 those of us that believe in this community feel that we have
09:14:10 one of the best kept secrets in the world, and this is an
09:14:14 opportunity for us because the world has seen what we know
09:14:18 is here and the great opportunities that lie ahead.
09:14:22 This could be the beginning of something even better than
09:14:25 any of us can imagine.
09:14:27 When decision makers from all over the world -- and many of
09:14:33 them were here -- 50,000 people, hotels and restaurants had
09:14:37 great success, an economic boost for the whole Tampa Bay
09:14:42 area, and I hope this will continue for decades to come.
09:14:45 It takes awhile for some of these things to develop.
09:14:48 But the future of our area is very positive.
09:14:52 We are in an economic downturn right now, but I know things
09:14:55 like this are going to change what happens in the near
09:15:00 So thank you for the recognition.
09:15:01 It was a pleasure for us to bring the convention here.
09:15:08 We made a particular effort to combine the economic
09:15:13 opportunity with the convention, the purpose it was here
09:15:16 for, and I think it's going pay dividends for a long time to
09:15:20 So thanks again.
09:15:21 [ Applause ]
09:15:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, Mr. Austin.
09:15:30 We are very appreciative of what you have done.
09:15:31 A lot of people don't recognize the mentality that this man
09:15:37 In fact, a lot of us say that government helped create
09:15:42 reclaimed water.
09:15:42 Let me tell you the leader behind pushing the government
09:15:45 behind doing reclaimed was Mr. Al Austin.
09:15:49 Thank you very much again.
09:15:50 >> And one more, we have to have light rail.
09:15:59 [ Applause ]
09:16:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank God he didn't use his five minutes.
09:16:09 But we'll get to those in a little bit.
09:16:11 The second item on the agenda is the presentation,
09:16:13 commendation of the 2011 Mayor's Youth Council membership
09:16:16 who finished in first place.
09:16:19 And we got the first place presenter there, Mr. Mike Suarez,
09:16:24 and this was at the Florida League of Cities.
09:16:27 So congratulations to them.
09:16:27 And Mr. Suarez will do that presentation at this time.
09:16:30 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair.
09:16:33 Can I call up Pedro Lima, Katy Hancock, and Jay Benjamin --
09:16:43 These are the members that were awarded -- can I call up the
09:16:47 Come up here to represent the current Mayor's Corps.
09:16:52 And Becky Heimstead who is with the City of Tampa, is the
09:16:55 coordinator of it.
09:16:56 And I was fortunate to be at the Florida League of Cities
09:16:59 this past year in Hollywood, Florida.
09:17:01 As I was sitting in the audience listening to a particular
09:17:05 speaker that went to an awards thing that came up, I was
09:17:10 very glad to hear Tampa's name mentioned as the winner of
09:17:14 the youth video competition that came in first place.
09:17:16 These folks as you know worked very hard and diligently
09:17:19 every day, all year, working to come up with their
09:17:23 television program, and of course they are part of the mayor
09:17:28 Although they represent the entire city, the mayor started
09:17:33 this years ago.
09:17:34 All the league of city members for the most part have youth
09:17:38 councils, and this is our youth council.
09:17:39 And I want to congratulate Pedro and LIMA, KATY Hancock, Jay
09:17:55 Pedro, I think you have a couple of words to say.
09:17:58 >>> Thank you.
09:17:59 Good morning.
09:18:00 My name is Pedro Lima, a member of the Mayor's Youth Corps
09:18:06 2011 and member of the Youth Leadership Council.
09:18:10 It's sponsored by the Florida League of Cities which created
09:18:13 an 8-minute video and 1500 word narrative that described the
09:18:18 Mayor's Youth Corps. Included were pictures and news
09:18:21 articles that provided support for our entry.
09:18:24 The video was a joint effort of many members of the Mayor's
09:18:26 Youth Corps and the corps production team.
09:18:30 Many people helped the youth corps achieve this award.
09:18:33 First I would like to thank the mayor and City of Tampa for
09:18:36 allowing Tampa to participate and the youth leadership
09:18:42 I would also like to thank City of Tampa television for
09:18:45 helping us win this video competition.
09:18:48 All the staff provided tremendous support, especially Mr.
09:18:51 Frank Crum, Karey Poulos, and Mindy Snyder, who all helped
09:18:57 us achieve our final project.
09:18:58 I would also like to thank Rebecca Heimstead, our Youth Corp
09:19:01 and Leadership Council coordinator.
09:19:07 The Mayor's Youth Corp is an amazing program, partnering in
09:19:12 the Florida League of Cities, just two examples of those
09:19:15 Once again, I would like to thank all the members of City
09:19:17 Council for this commendation.
09:19:20 Thank you.
09:19:21 [ Applause ]
09:19:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We are now going to continue with the
09:20:01 ceremonial activities.
09:20:03 We are going to hold three for a minute and go to item
09:20:05 number 5 which will be a presentation by Ms. Yolie Capin.
09:20:55 >>YVONNE CAPIN: It is with great pleasure that I bring up
09:20:59 Jolie Gonzalez and Victor Padilla to the podium.
09:21:03 These are people that I refer to as the DIY, do it yourself.
09:21:13 The economic engine task force were planning and looking
09:21:21 into the history of the Cuban sandwich.
09:21:24 At the same time, these two, Jolie Gonzalez and victor
09:21:30 Padilla, were planning the first festival of the Cuban
09:21:34 sandwich and the restaurants competed.
09:21:36 The historic Tampa Cuban sandwich was in the category of
09:21:39 conditions, traditional and nontraditional categories.
09:21:45 At the same time City Council passed a resolution declaring
09:21:48 the Tampa historic Cuban sandwich as Tampa signature
09:21:57 Serendipitous coincidence?
09:22:00 It worked out beautifully.
09:22:02 It drew 5,000 visitors to Tampa's national historic
09:22:06 district, Ybor.
09:22:07 We value cultural assets, and these two young people are
09:22:11 cultural assets.
09:22:14 I am going to read this briefly.
09:22:20 The Tampa City Council congratulates Jolie Gonzalez and
09:22:24 victor Padilla for their outstanding work in organizing the
09:22:28 first annual Cuban sandwich festival.
09:22:31 Tampa City Council is appreciative of the efforts and
09:22:33 dedication by Jolie Gonzalez and victor Padilla in helping
09:22:39 brand the historic Cuban sandwich as Tampa's own creation.
09:22:43 We recognize the persistence and fostering the idea of
09:22:48 Tampa's diverse culture, and it will be exemplified once
09:22:53 again March 30th, 2013, when the second festival will be
09:22:58 Tampa City Council absolutes Jolie Gonzalez and victor
09:23:02 Padilla on the singular achievement and recognizes the
09:23:05 festival as a cultural asset.
09:23:07 Thank you.
09:23:09 [ Applause ]
09:23:10 >> Victor Padilla: I want to thank City Council and God
09:23:19 most of all, and being a native of Tampa it was an extreme
09:23:22 pleasure to put this together, and it was surprising to us
09:23:26 that no one had ever done it.
09:23:28 And in conclusion of that, we also beat Miami's record for
09:23:32 the longest Cuban in July, which was 36 feet.
09:23:37 And in actuality, they really didn't make a Cuban because
09:23:40 they put mayonnaise and no salami.
09:23:47 So we really do have a Cuban.
09:23:51 And I want to thank my abuela who is up in heaven for making
09:23:55 the best Cuban ever.
09:23:59 Thank you again for this recognition.
09:24:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you all very much.
09:24:10 We go now to item number 3.
09:24:19 Item 3.
09:24:24 Recommendation for appointments.
09:24:27 Item number 3.
09:24:28 Mr. Flynn.
09:24:29 >> William Flynn III: If we could have the proposed -- I
09:24:42 believe you have the proposed task force members in front of
09:25:02 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Everyone got a copy of the slate.
09:25:10 Mr. Flynn, on the slate, may I ask you, was the
09:25:21 administration asked to participate?
09:25:23 >> I spoke to the mayor Tuesday and was pleased we were
09:25:26 going forward on this.
09:25:27 And he said he liked the slate and didn't need to add anyone
09:25:34 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay, thank you.
09:25:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Montelione?
09:25:38 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I have a question.
09:25:40 And Mr. McDonaugh is here.
09:25:46 One thing -- there's a few things that concern me, but the
09:25:48 one thing that concerns me is that there isn't anyone here
09:25:52 from the administration on this list, specifically you, Mr.
09:25:58 Since this is an economic initiative, and one that if things
09:26:03 go forward with this application once the committee comes
09:26:08 back to us, it would be the job of the administration to
09:26:12 carry this torch forward.
09:26:13 So I would suspect that your input on this task force would
09:26:20 be not only welcome but necessary.
09:26:23 >>BOB McDONAUGH: Economic opportunity.
09:26:29 I believe that the charge that this group has is basically a
09:26:34 fact-finding mission, and to come and present a report to
09:26:37 the City Council on the positives and negatives of the EB 5
09:26:44 program and talk about the program itself and give a
09:26:47 definitive -- and again I will be an active listener to
09:26:52 I have been doing a fair amount of research on it.
09:26:56 As you know, the federal courthouse is being funded with EB
09:27:01 5 money.
09:27:02 Actually dealing with another group right now on another
09:27:06 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Which is why I think your input on
09:27:08 this --
09:27:11 >>BOB McDONAUGH: Again, they are being asked to present a
09:27:14 And again, they are industry experts.
09:27:17 And I have no issue with not being a part of that.
09:27:21 And when they come and present their report to council,
09:27:25 we'll have an active discussion about the positives and
09:27:28 negatives of participating in an EB 5 program and being a
09:27:32 regional center.
09:27:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any further?
09:27:38 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well, just the industry expert is also
09:27:41 the key.
09:27:42 I did a little research.
09:27:43 I called Mr. Flynn's office yesterday and I had gotten the
09:27:50 And looking -- some definitely are in that field, but some
09:27:57 are -- I don't know if industry expert would be the term.
09:28:07 So that's another concern that I have.
09:28:09 Then I wasn't here when this resolution was passed.
09:28:12 And I did talk with both Mr. Shimberg and Mr. Shelby about
09:28:18 the fine line between sunshine and non-sunshine boards, and
09:28:26 it is a very fine line.
09:28:28 And what I understand -- and correct me if I am wrong, Mr.
09:28:31 Shelby -- is what makes a committee a sunshine committee or
09:28:39 required to meet the sunshine regulations is that the
09:28:46 committee brings back a recommendation to council.
09:28:50 And in this case, they are bringing back facts.
09:28:54 But in my mind -- and this is where it gets, I think, to me
09:28:59 kind of dicey -- is if we act on the facts that are brought
09:29:06 before us, would that not be interpreted as a
09:29:09 Because we are acting on the information that is brought to
09:29:13 >> The short answer, you are right, it is a fine line.
09:29:27 It's an important distinction.
09:29:28 And I think Mr. McDonaugh recognized that when he made the
09:29:31 statement to council that it is in fact a fact finding
09:29:34 committee, and although he may have input, the input the
09:29:39 administration would have would be into a recommendation, if
09:29:43 the administration chooses to make one.
09:29:45 So I believe -- and when I reviewed the resolution that was
09:29:54 presented beings, that it what made clear that it was a fact
09:29:57 finding committee, and that it is incumbent upon them to not
09:30:04 cross that line when they make their presentation that it
09:30:08 does not come back to council in the form of a
09:30:12 So, so long as that committee -- and believe me, I see on
09:30:16 the list here that was presented that Councilwoman Capin is
09:30:20 proposed to be a member of that committee, that she is very
09:30:23 well aware of her obligation to make sure that the public
09:30:28 meetings law is abided by, and that committee is charged
09:30:33 with the fact -- that it is a fact-finding committee and
09:30:40 does not cross the line of being a recommendation.
09:30:43 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you, Mr. Shelby.
09:30:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Capin?
09:30:49 >>YVONNE CAPIN: (off microphone) ... and the answer from the
09:31:01 >>BOB McDONAUGH: I spoke to the mayor Tuesday.
09:31:04 He what pleased this was going forward.
09:31:05 I asked him if he wanted to have one of his designees on the
09:31:09 committee and he said he didn't need to.
09:31:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Mulhern, do you care to have the
09:31:16 floor or not?
09:31:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm just going to say this briefly and
09:31:20 either you or Bob McDonaugh can answer.
09:31:23 I was going to suggest that the mayor could just appoint
09:31:26 someone to be on the board so that as the board is meeting
09:31:30 they feel confident that administration is there, and that
09:31:37 their findings would be ...
09:31:48 >>BOB McDONAUGH: I'll go back and ask the mayor's pleasure.
09:31:52 Again --
09:31:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm suggesting appoint someone as you said
09:31:56 an industry expert but someone that the administration has
09:32:00 maybe chosen.
09:32:01 >>BOB McDONAUGH: Okay.
09:32:03 I'll ask again to see if there are some folks out there.
09:32:07 There are other people in the community who are active in
09:32:09 the EB 5 that might lend some more information.
09:32:12 Again, part of the concern I have is that industry experts
09:32:20 make a living, and the solicitation and investment of EB 5
09:32:24 And we are looking for an unbiased factorial report on this
09:32:30 And so I didn't want to take it either way.
09:32:32 Again, I'm looking at it the same way that council is --
09:32:38 someone is going to render a report and we can read it and
09:32:41 make some then educated decisions on it.
09:32:46 Thank you.
09:32:46 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mr. Flynn, I have one quick question.
09:32:52 Most if not all of the people on this list I know either by
09:32:56 reputation or obviously by their affiliation that's on here.
09:33:02 Mr. Horton with sun state international trucks, what is that
09:33:06 type of business?
09:33:07 How does that relate to international or EB 35?
09:33:12 >> I don't know, Mr. Suarez, about that business.
09:33:15 I do know that Mr. Horton was recommended by several people
09:33:19 so we thought he would be a force in the community who would
09:33:22 understand job creation so that's the reason for choosing
09:33:24 >> So there's no base nice either international trade or
09:33:28 actual investment or anything like that?
09:33:29 >> I personally don't know that, Mr. Suarez, so I don't know
09:33:33 about that.
09:33:34 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
09:33:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Reddick.
09:33:38 >>FRANK REDDICK: Let me ask a question, Mr. Suarez, because
09:33:42 I recommended Mr. Horton for this task force.
09:33:48 He has an international business where he does a lot of
09:33:51 trade, a lot of import/export, and is very, very
09:33:59 As a matter of fact, he's very knowledgeable about the EB 5
09:34:02 And there were several people that called me when I said I
09:34:09 wanted diversity, recommended him, and that's where I passed
09:34:13 his name on to the committee.
09:34:16 I do have -- I have seen representative Barry Reid on here,
09:34:25 and I'm surprised by that appointment to the task force
09:34:31 because he has no international experience at all, and I had
09:34:38 a discussion with him about this, because I heard that she
09:34:41 was approached by several on this committee.
09:34:45 So I do have a concern about that.
09:34:51 And my other surprise, when we had this discussion, I didn't
09:34:56 know any member of the council that serves on this task
09:35:01 force, and we didn't have that discussion when we brought
09:35:06 this up because of the sunshine, and we didn't want to do
09:35:10 So I am going to support this task force, but those are my
09:35:21 two concerns that I just want to express for the record.
09:35:24 Thank you.
09:35:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Montelione.
09:35:27 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay, so now I have a third concern.
09:35:32 It was my understanding that members of council would not be
09:35:35 pointing their own representative to the committee.
09:35:39 And not that I have an objection to Mr. Reddick having input
09:35:44 into it, but that begs the equity of the other council
09:35:50 So if one person was consulted as to making a recommendation
09:35:55 on who would be serving on the committee -- and again, Mr.
09:35:59 Reddick, no offense meant to your recommendation, but then
09:36:04 all of us should be allowed to make recommendations to this
09:36:08 committee, if one of us does, and apparently not one of us
09:36:14 but two of us are making recommendations to the committee.
09:36:17 So with Councilwoman Capin on the committee and Mr. Reddick
09:36:21 making a recommendation on who he thought might be, you
09:36:24 know, well served for a seat on this committee, then, you
09:36:30 know, the other five of us should also have input.
09:36:34 Ms. Mulhern expressed having someone from the
09:36:36 administration, not that she's making a direct
09:36:40 And I just don't see that if we are going to have a
09:36:45 committee that initially was going to be vetted for their
09:36:49 credentials and their professional involvement with EB 5 in
09:36:53 order to bring back facts, and those recommendations were to
09:36:57 be yours, I don't hear that all these recommendations are
09:37:04 That's another concern that I have.
09:37:05 >>FRANK REDDICK: I just said why.
09:37:18 Because I made a request about diversity, you wanted a name.
09:37:26 I received a phone call about your discussion with that
09:37:30 And asked me did I know of anyone in the community that
09:37:38 would be a representative.
09:37:40 I would have never made any recommendation to Mr. Flynn --
09:37:47 that person called me -- because they didn't know someone of
09:37:51 diversity that would serve on the committee and they asked
09:37:53 me did I know anybody, and so I wanted to state that.
09:37:57 I didn't go out and put this person on the committee.
09:38:01 That was made by phone call.
09:38:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
09:38:05 Ms. Mulhern.
09:38:05 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
09:38:08 Mr. Flynn, you don't have like a specific number of people
09:38:13 you have on this committee, do you?
09:38:16 >>> Not really.
09:38:17 I think neither too big nor too small to get something done.
09:38:22 But I don't have a specific number.
09:38:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I want to appeal to my council members to
09:38:27 support this for now.
09:38:28 If anyone on council has recommendations or questions about
09:38:32 who is on there, could they contact you and --
09:38:36 >> We would be glad to have them, of course.
09:38:38 >>MARY MULHERN: I really think that Councilwoman Capin did
09:38:41 a lot of research on this.
09:38:43 We heard a lot about it.
09:38:44 We have had the members of this committee come to us many,
09:38:47 many times, and they are here again today.
09:38:49 So just to quibble over who is going to be meeting with
09:38:51 them, I would like to ask you not to do this but just pass
09:38:58 If you have other recommendations, you can make them to Mr.
09:39:00 Flynn, make them through Councilwoman Capin to him, or do it
09:39:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I prefer council members not to discuss
09:39:12 with council members.
09:39:13 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
09:39:15 So if you could make it directly to him, and let's just get
09:39:18 this going forward.
09:39:18 They are trying to study something that's great for Tampa.
09:39:22 And let's let them do that.
09:39:23 >>FRANK REDDICK: I move the recommended task force.
09:39:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Reddick.
09:39:31 I have a second by Mr. Cohen.
09:39:33 But before I do that, I am going to hold this vote for a
09:39:36 Anyone in the public want to speak on this since this has
09:39:39 become a little hot button issue?
09:39:41 I see no one.
09:39:42 Let me just say this.
09:39:43 Mr. McDonaugh, are there any individuals in the City of
09:39:49 Tampa that are doing this without using the city name?
09:39:51 The reason I say that is that this has already been going on
09:39:54 in the city, and my only concern -- and I stated it
09:39:58 earlier -- is my opposition to it -- and I am not going say
09:40:02 I have reservation -- that I don't want to use the city name
09:40:08 because basically this is a lot of real estate investment,
09:40:11 and as you and I know not 100 percent of all real estate
09:40:15 deals go well.
09:40:16 I can name you hundreds in the City of Tampa that have
09:40:19 I can name you hundreds that have done well.
09:40:23 And I know it, you know it, people rezoning land and six
09:40:28 months later rezoning the same PD to another PD because what
09:40:32 they wanted doesn't work.
09:40:33 So I don't want to use our city name to say, hey, the city
09:40:37 is backing this.
09:40:38 The city is not backing this because we have no financial
09:40:41 interest in it.
09:40:41 However, to use the name to perpetuate individuals that come
09:40:45 to this country with a green card that still hasn't been
09:40:50 thoroughly explained to the public -- I don't know if it's
09:40:53 one green card per person or per family or send somebody to
09:40:57 Harvard or Yale, and pick somebody -- if that's what it is,
09:41:03 the way it works.
09:41:04 But I'm not going to go into what I think.
09:41:06 It's what the facts are.
09:41:08 Are there any other individuals, to your knowledge, in the
09:41:10 City of Tampa, using this format without the City of Tampa's
09:41:16 >>> Yes, there are.
09:41:17 As I mentioned, the historic federal courthouse, the equity
09:41:23 in that came from EB 5 money.
09:41:24 There are a couple shopping centers I know on Hillsborough
09:41:27 I received a call this week from a lawyer in Texas who is
09:41:30 talking about investment.
09:41:30 I think the issue is -- the question is that if the City of
09:41:35 Tampa decided to develop a regional center, be named a
09:41:38 regional center, would facilitate more dollars flowing into
09:41:44 our community and possibly creating more jobs, and enticing
09:41:48 more people in investing in our community?
09:41:50 I think that is the question that's being put forth, and
09:41:54 this fact finding group will come to the community and say
09:41:57 at the end of the day, this is what we found out, and this
09:41:59 is the potential advantage.
09:42:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If that's the case, I understand that.
09:42:05 Are there any other individuals that you know of, and you
09:42:08 may not know of any, that have millions of dollars in some
09:42:11 checking account that's foreign investment that are willing
09:42:12 to invest without us doing this?
09:42:16 >>BOB McDONAUGH: There are examples of in the our community
09:42:18 already of the EB 5 program being invested in our community.
09:42:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That was one question.
09:42:22 The next question, are there any single individuals or
09:42:25 groups of individuals or firms that have this money in a
09:42:27 checking account to continue to do this?
09:42:30 >>BOB McDONAUGH: Besides myself, yes.
09:42:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You have millions, I know that.
09:42:34 Millions of problems.
09:42:36 [ Laughter ]
09:42:37 >>> Millions of shell projects also.
09:42:43 But we have $300 million in real estate projects right now
09:42:46 near our downtown core that were financed by individuals
09:42:49 that had either deep pockets or the ability to borrow from
09:42:52 banks, yes, sir.
09:42:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:42:55 Anyone else?
09:42:56 Anyone in the public?
09:42:56 One last time in the public.
09:42:58 I see no one.
09:42:59 I have a motion on the floor by Mr. Reddick, second, I
09:43:02 believe, by Mr. Cohen.
09:43:03 All in favor?
09:43:07 Item passes 5-2.
09:43:09 Because business is already going on.
09:43:11 Let me make a couple of public statements before we go to
09:43:13 the agenda approval.
09:43:18 Let me have the approval of the agenda.
09:43:21 I have a motion by Mr. Suarez, second by Mr. Cohen on the
09:43:24 agenda, the addendum.
09:43:25 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
09:43:28 Opposed nay.
09:43:29 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:43:30 Ms. Capin.
09:43:32 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Is this the time where I would ask to
09:43:34 continue item number 71 to November 3?
09:43:50 Yes, we can do that.
09:43:51 This is staff reports.
09:43:53 Tell me what date?
09:43:55 >>YVONNE CAPIN: November 3rd under staff reports.
09:43:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Capin before I
09:44:00 continue with this item 71 to November 3rd.
09:44:03 Yes, sir.
09:44:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The calendar, it looks like from the
09:44:07 calendar the regular meeting is on November 1st.
09:44:10 Would the clerk confirm this?
09:44:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: November 1st is a Thursday because I
09:44:14 know somebody's birthday.
09:44:20 >>YVONNE CAPIN: November 1st.
09:44:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right, November 1st.
09:44:24 Who made that motion?
09:44:25 I got Ms. Capin, seconded by Mr. Cohen on 71 to November
09:44:31 All in favor?
09:44:32 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:44:34 Before we continue with that, we were on approval of agenda
09:44:43 and addendum we finished.
09:44:45 And let me speak on the five-minute rule for one second.
09:44:48 This council has been pushing for a five minute rule
09:44:54 So we are going to do that.
09:44:55 But remember, we really don't need that enforcement.
09:44:58 It's up to each and every one of you to understand what five
09:45:01 minutes is.
09:45:01 And the next thing that's going to happen is that the next
09:45:04 time we do this, somebody is going to say, well, five
09:45:08 Well, if we get two minutes are taken up by the questions
09:45:10 that I ask.
09:45:11 Well, tough luck.
09:45:12 Five minutes is five minutes.
09:45:14 In five minutes you can say 72 clear words a minute times
09:45:18 If you can't explain yourself in then, then I suggest I buy
09:45:22 myself a recorder.
09:45:23 But coming at whoever the chair is -- and I'm not talking
09:45:29 about myself -- but whoever the chair is, it's harder and
09:45:33 harder and harder when you don't restrain yourself.
09:45:39 I'm not saying you can't speak more than five minutes.
09:45:41 But you are going to ask this chair to stay for five
09:45:46 So starts today I am going go to that five minute rule and
09:45:48 only two bites at the apple.
09:45:50 I have been most lenient because the public is entitled to
09:45:53 hear what you want to say.
09:45:55 But you yourself is asking me to enforce this rule so I am
09:45:58 going to abide each and every one of you.
09:46:00 All right.
09:46:09 Public comments.
09:46:09 Three minutes allowed.
09:46:10 And I do have to leave at about 9:50.
09:46:13 I will be back in about 15, 20 minutes.
09:46:15 I just have to go down the street to do a city service.
09:46:24 Any item on the agenda first?
09:46:26 And then any item off the agenda.
09:46:28 Anyone with items on the agenda first.
09:46:30 And then items off the agenda.
09:46:32 >> Pete Johnson, 510 Harrison street.
09:46:36 It is on the agenda because code is going to be spoken about
09:46:40 and I always talk about code.
09:46:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No, no, let's not make assumptions.
09:46:44 What number is it on the agenda?
09:46:46 I'm not trying to be a hard guy but tell me what number it
09:46:51 I don't want somebody -- the reason I'm saying this,
09:46:54 somebody is going to say, look what you do D to this
09:46:56 individual, you like him, downtown like me.
09:46:59 I don't want to play that game.
09:47:00 >> 73.
09:47:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 73.
09:47:06 This is a guy who didn't make the baseball team but has a
09:47:11 high number.
09:47:11 >> Pete Johnson, Harrison street.
09:47:14 I always talk about code enforcement because it is the one
09:47:17 enforcement department that can make a difference within the
09:47:21 We have had several fires in the City of Tampa.
09:47:25 And they have all been condemned properties, ready to be
09:47:32 This is the second one that was just in the paper and on the
09:47:36 The other one was in Sulphur Springs.
09:47:43 Attached is the list of condemned properties.
09:47:46 I can't understand why we cannot get these properties torn
09:47:56 They are a hazard to the neighborhoods.
09:47:57 It is being set on fire.
09:47:58 It is a possibility the house next door will be set on fire.
09:48:01 This is a public safety problem.
09:48:07 Please, get someone in administration to get these houses
09:48:09 torn down.
09:48:11 Thank you.
09:48:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:48:13 I appreciate it very much.
09:48:14 Next, please.
09:48:15 >>> Ed Tillou from Sulphur Springs.
09:48:22 First I wanted to speak to item 3.
09:48:24 I tried to get up but I'm handicapped and I move slowly.
09:48:29 With respect to foreign investment to create jobs, these are
09:48:35 being advanced by people who never had to go to the people
09:48:43 Asia looking for work.
09:48:46 Indians, people from India, hire about 50 or 70% from India.
09:48:50 Now that's not to say that they are bad people, because they
09:48:52 are just doing what every group that came here did, from
09:48:56 Ireland, from Germany and things like that.
09:48:59 But it's not going to create jobs.
09:49:01 And what will create jobs is something one person here has
09:49:06 advocate add lot and that's improved relations with Cuba.
09:49:08 I feel badly about that in a certain way because the museum,
09:49:13 I started looking into that.
09:49:14 Most guys have a -- they really have a case.
09:49:17 But, of course, president Kennedy, acting on the advice, did
09:49:24 what he did, and he probably paid with his life for that.
09:49:28 So the thing we have here is that I'm going to study
09:49:33 transportation logistics at the University of north Florida.
09:49:37 But you don't have to be doing that to see that Tampa is off
09:49:40 the beaten track.
09:49:42 And if relations improve with Cuba it gets on the beaten
09:49:45 It's not in competition with Miami for that because Miami is
09:49:48 far to the east.
09:49:49 It's in competition with New Orleans.
09:49:52 So the thing is, and I meant to have an exhibit, I'll try to
09:49:57 have it at the next meeting, it's best to have improved
09:50:02 relations with Cuba because there are problems with high
09:50:05 fructose corn syrup which is essentially what kept the
09:50:12 United States going through this period, but there are
09:50:14 problems with it, health problems.
09:50:17 I'll try to elaborate on that at the next meeting.
09:50:20 Here is a thing about the trees in Ybor City.
09:50:26 There are changes in the trees.
09:50:28 It would have been better like trees were taken up one at a
09:50:32 time and replaced one at a time rather than this total
09:50:38 approach, which also applied to the graffiti under the
09:50:41 Now, before a lot of Republicans became vermin, they were
09:50:50 human beings, and a lot of them that came to the RNC, they
09:50:53 used to put that graffiti during their rowing competition.
09:50:57 I think a lot of those people were sad to see that go.
09:51:00 So again, something was done that was wrong.
09:51:03 What the mayor should concentrate on is Pam Iorio gave gold
09:51:11 stars to Mr. Greco for, and that was repairing the streets.
09:51:15 She said, if you want public works done and you want it done
09:51:18 right, you bring in Mr. Greco.
09:51:20 And that was Pam Iorio that said that.
09:51:23 So the thing is that's what this man needs to be
09:51:26 concentrating on.
09:51:27 (Bell sounds).
09:51:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Next, please.
09:51:31 >>> Susan Long, 920 broad street.
09:51:39 I'm here about the tree cutting in Ybor.
09:51:43 I was just appalled.
09:51:47 I have oak trees in my yard.
09:51:49 If I want to trim a branch I have to get a permit from the
09:51:51 city that costs me $100 give or take.
09:51:56 They go down and set up their chainsaws and knock down
09:51:59 100-plus trees, oak.
09:52:02 Cost them nothing except the cost to remove them.
09:52:05 They don't give us any forewarning.
09:52:07 According to the times, they are going to replace them with
09:52:10 trees such as crape myrtles, which they removed from Kiley
09:52:14 Gardens because they were so messy and hard to maintain.
09:52:17 And to be honest, I have two crape myrtles in my yard and
09:52:21 they do not provide shade.
09:52:22 They are beautiful trees but they do not provide any shade.
09:52:29 I refuse, and I'm sure there are many others, to sit down
09:52:32 with a crape myrtle over my head dropping its flowers into
09:52:37 my food.
09:52:37 I don't understand this.
09:52:38 I don't know why it happened.
09:52:39 Some of the trees probably were diseased.
09:52:44 That's part of the deal.
09:52:44 But I'm just appalled they did that with no warning, no
09:52:47 input from anybody, just cut 'em all down.
09:52:50 Now we have little stumps and they say they are going to
09:52:53 remove it by Friday.
09:52:54 And then they are going to plant something.
09:52:56 We need shade down there.
09:52:57 We need decent trees.
09:52:59 I'm just expressing my dissatisfaction.
09:53:03 I know that City Council didn't make that decision and send
09:53:06 them down there to cut down the trees and I'm not even
09:53:09 implying that.
09:53:09 But just one of my dissatisfactions.
09:53:12 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
09:53:15 City Council didn't know anything about this, as probably
09:53:19 everyone knows, no one knew anything about it.
09:53:25 I'm chair of the Parks and Recreation Department.
09:53:27 I knew nothing about it.
09:53:29 So I will be asking for reports from everyone, and hopefully
09:53:35 will show up and tell us what happened.
09:53:37 But this is the same thing that happened with Kiley Gardens.
09:53:40 And if you cut down a tree, it's a good example of ask
09:53:46 permission -- or ask forgiveness, don't ask permission. So
09:53:50 once a tree is gone, it's gone.
09:53:52 And I think it's something that's not only should council
09:53:58 and the neighborhood of Ybor didn't know anything about it.
09:54:03 And the public needs to know when you are going to do a
09:54:06 massive tree cutting.
09:54:09 So it will come up.
09:54:10 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you.
09:54:15 Is there anyone left that would like to speak to the public?
09:54:18 >> Chip Thomas.
09:54:23 And I want to talk about you.
09:54:25 Because you are the greatest and most progressive City
09:54:27 Council that Tampa has had in decades, if not ever, and
09:54:30 probably by a wide margin.
09:54:32 And for a city that has been laggered in so many desirable
09:54:39 traits and a leader in so many undesirable areas, we could
09:54:42 use a lot of catching up, and it would be a shame not to
09:54:44 capitalize on the make-up of this council.
09:54:47 And I'm talking about simple things like eliminating these
09:54:53 plastic shopping bags, as San Francisco and L.A. and most
09:54:57 recently Austin have done, as well as a two-page long list
09:55:00 of communities in this country, and countries around the
09:55:02 world, bringing back the pedestrian malls that we have,
09:55:06 Franklin Street and 7th Avenue in Ybor City, they took a
09:55:10 big step and got rid of them.
09:55:13 To have the foresight to make whatever changes necessary in
09:55:16 zoning laws to prevent these dollar store franchises from
09:55:23 taking over the city as a whole like invasive weeds, that
09:55:27 you would recognize how leaf blowers and these big sit-down
09:55:33 lawnmowers with the dust and noise and pollution they
09:55:35 create, in no way justify the little minimal time savings
09:55:40 involved, and you would create bans and restrictions on
09:55:45 There's a long list of similar activities, things that
09:55:48 really improve life for people in the city, and which may
09:55:53 turn out to be the best way to attract business to the town.
09:55:57 And as much as I would love to address any of these issues
09:56:00 one at a time and in depth, and too often public comment is
09:56:06 clogged up by a long line of people who want to talk about
09:56:09 the controversy of the weak and often come up one after
09:56:15 another and repeat the same arguments over and over and do
09:56:18 simple procedure in public comment would open up the
09:56:21 comments to a wider range of topics for discussion as well
09:56:25 as items off the agenda.
09:56:26 I don't know if the agenda that you have from week to week
09:56:30 is dictated to you rather than you determining what's on it.
09:56:34 But there's got to be away, if you want to take steps and
09:56:39 help Tampa catch up in these types of things, to open up
09:56:44 discussion and pursue these kinds of things.
09:56:47 I really hope -- you are more than a third of the way
09:56:52 through your term and there's no guarantee that any of you
09:56:55 will be back for next time or that the council will be as
09:56:58 green and progressive as you are.
09:56:59 And that's a good thing regardless of what the Glen Becks of
09:57:02 the world say.
09:57:03 So we really need to do more to pursue these quality of life
09:57:07 issues, whatever it takes, find a way to get them into
09:57:11 Thank you very much.
09:57:11 >>HARRY COHEN: Could we get your name and full address for
09:57:14 the record?
09:57:15 >> Chip Thomas, 1219 east -- Avenue.
09:57:21 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I do want to suggest that you talk with
09:57:24 one of my legislative aides, Emily.
09:57:28 She is a graduate from the environmental program over at
09:57:30 And I have several initiatives in the sustainable realm that
09:57:35 we are working on.
09:57:37 There are a couple of items even on this agenda.
09:57:42 Management in our facilities that I have been pushing with
09:57:45 the administration, Mr. Herbert, the authorities manager,
09:57:49 and we had a sustainable workshop not long ago.
09:57:53 We discussed many different approaches and things that we
09:57:55 could pursue.
09:57:59 Emily is the contact person in my office for all things
09:58:04 And I would love for you to sit down with her and discuss
09:58:08 some of your ideas and see if some of them may be in the
09:58:11 works and maybe some we could add to the list of projects we
09:58:14 have going.
09:58:14 >>> I actually had a discussion with you, but it got
09:58:22 canceled because of convention issues.
09:58:29 >> If you will come back and talk and we'll see what we can
09:58:31 pursue together.
09:58:32 >>HARRY COHEN: Okay, that appears to be the end of the
09:58:37 Are there any questions by the public for reconsideration of
09:58:39 legislative matters?
09:58:43 Seeing none, we are going to go to our committee reports and
09:58:45 consent agenda.
09:58:46 Item number 7, an ordinance being presented for first
09:58:50 reading consideration.
09:58:53 One of the council members, Councilwoman Montelione, would
09:58:56 you mind reading that ordinance, please?
09:58:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Certainly.
09:59:05 Let me read from the final agenda just in case some wording
09:59:08 has been changed.
09:59:09 Item number 7.
09:59:10 I present an ordinance for first reading and consideration,
09:59:14 approving a historic preservation property tax exemption
09:59:17 application relative to the restoration, renovation or
09:59:21 rehabilitation of certain property owned by Antonakos
09:59:29 Floridan LLC located at 905 North Florida Avenue Tampa,
09:59:35 Florida and is designated local landmark based upon certain
09:59:40 findings, providing for notice to property appraiser for
09:59:43 Hillsborough County, providing for severability, providing
09:59:46 for repeal of all ordinances in conflict providing an
09:59:48 effective date.
09:59:48 >>HARRY COHEN: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:59:51 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
09:59:56 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent at
10:00:01 Second reading of the ordinance will be held October
10:00:03 18th at 9:30 a.m.
10:00:05 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you very much.
10:00:08 Mr. Frank Reddick, chair of the Public Safety Committee.
10:00:11 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move 8 through 12.
10:00:27 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Second.
10:00:29 >>HARRY COHEN: All those in favor?
10:00:33 Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:00:34 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
10:00:36 We didn't get the agenda, even a draft agenda until Monday.
10:00:39 So items 11 and 12 on the consent agenda for the police
10:00:43 department, I had a few questions about them.
10:00:46 I want to thank officer Gary Levuski who more than answered
10:00:55 my questions.
10:00:55 And I really appreciate all the information and the backup,
10:00:59 so I'm fine with them.
10:01:00 So I would move items 11 and 12 at this moment.
10:01:05 >> Second.
10:01:08 >>HARRY COHEN: Seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
10:01:10 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
10:01:18 Let me just mention for the record that item number 6 was
10:01:23 continued to the November 15th meeting at 9 a.m. and
10:01:27 that was approved as part of the addendum to the agenda.
10:01:31 Councilwoman Mulhern, Parks, Recreation and Culture
10:01:34 >> Before we move the parks and recreation committee, I
10:01:38 would like to ask Mr. Shelby about the disclosure that I
10:01:46 discussed with him regarding item 17 and 19 before we take
10:01:49 the vote.
10:01:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You had indicated you had a business
10:01:53 relationship or company you were affiliated with has had a
10:01:56 business relationship with a company or companies involved
10:01:59 in these in the past, right?
10:02:00 >> That's correct.
10:02:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: But presently you have no financial stake
10:02:04 in the subject matter of either 17 or 19.
10:02:06 Is that correct?
10:02:07 >> That is also correct.
10:02:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It is my opinion under Florida statutes
10:02:10 you are obligated to vote.
10:02:11 >> Thank you.
10:02:17 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 13 through 24.
10:02:19 >> Second.
10:02:22 >>HARRY COHEN: Motion from Mrs. Mulhern, seconded by Mr.
10:02:26 All in favor?
10:02:33 Mike Suarez, chair of public workers.
10:02:37 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I move 25 through 37.
10:02:44 >> Second.
10:02:44 (Motion carried).
10:02:45 >> Could you please move item 38?
10:02:48 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I move item number 38.
10:02:49 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion from Mr. Suarez, seconded
10:02:53 by Mr. Reddick.
10:02:54 All those in favor indicate by saying aye.
10:02:59 Lisa Montelione, chairman of the building zoning
10:03:01 preservation committee.
10:03:02 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I love 39 through 48.
10:03:06 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
10:03:08 >>HARRY COHEN: All those in favor please indicate by saying
10:03:14 And Yolie Capin, chair of the transportation committee.
10:03:19 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I move item 49 through 54.
10:03:22 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
10:03:23 >>HARRY COHEN: All those in favor?
10:03:32 We are going to move now to our 9:30 public hearings.
10:03:45 We have quasi-judicial hearings.
10:03:48 All witnesses will need to be sworn in.
10:03:54 55 I thought was part of the consent agenda, was it snot
10:03:59 let's go ahead and swear everyone in.
10:04:00 (Oath administered by Clerk)
10:04:13 >>MARY MULHERN: I move item number 55 to set public
10:04:20 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Second.
10:04:25 >>HARRY COHEN: All in favor?
10:04:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Members of council, I ask that in City
10:04:32 Council's office relative to this afternoon's or this
10:04:34 morning's hearing be filed into the record at this time.
10:04:36 >> So moved.
10:04:38 >> We have a motion from Mr. Suarez, seconded by Ms.
10:04:41 All those in favor pleas indicate by saying aye.
10:04:46 I would like if someone could open the public hearings on
10:04:49 items 56 through 66.
10:04:51 >> So moved.
10:04:54 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
10:04:55 >>HARRY COHEN: Motion by Ms. Montelione, seconded by Mr.
10:04:58 All in favor?
10:05:02 Items number 56.
10:05:03 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.
10:05:10 This is second reading for C-12-12.
10:05:14 We have no objection to this request.
10:05:16 >>HARRY COHEN: Is there anyone representing the petitioner
10:05:19 that wishes to say anything?
10:05:21 And is there anyone from the public that wishes to speak to
10:05:24 item number 56?
10:05:25 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move to close.
10:05:30 >>HARRY COHEN: Seconded by Mrs. Mulhern.
10:05:31 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
10:05:36 Ms. Mulhern, could you please read item number 56?
10:05:39 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented for
10:05:43 second reading and adoption, an ordinance vacating, closing,
10:05:47 discontinuing, abandoning a portion of the rite right-of-way
10:05:50 known as poinsettia street in orange wood park subdivision,
10:05:54 a subdivision in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County
10:05:57 Florida the same being more fully described in section 1
10:05:59 hereof subject to certain easements, covenants, conditions
10:06:02 and restrictions as more particularly described herein,
10:06:05 providing an effective date.
10:06:05 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
10:06:08 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion from Mrs. Mulhern, seconded
10:06:10 by Mr. Suarez.
10:06:11 This is a recorded vote.
10:06:12 Please vote and record.
10:06:13 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent at
10:06:23 >>HARRY COHEN: Item number 57.
10:06:29 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
10:06:32 Items number 57, 59, 60, 61, 62 and 63 require certified
10:06:39 site plans.
10:06:40 Those plans have been certified and provided to the clerk.
10:06:43 I do have them if you should have any questions.
10:06:45 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Montelione.
10:06:47 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Mr. Shelby, item number 56 -- no, 57 is
10:06:56 one that I also would like to state a disclosure for the
10:06:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And that disclosure being that you have
10:07:04 had a business relationship in the past with this
10:07:06 particular --
10:07:08 >>LISA MONTELIONE: With a representative of the applicant.
10:07:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: But you have no financial stake or any
10:07:13 interest in this subject of which you are voting?
10:07:17 >> That's correct.
10:07:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Then it is my opinion under Florida
10:07:20 statutes that you do have an obligation to vote.
10:07:24 >>HARRY COHEN: Returning to item number 57.
10:07:32 Is there anyone from the city that wishes to speak to item
10:07:35 number 57?
10:07:45 Ms. Feeley?
10:07:46 Is there anything anyone wishes to say?
10:07:49 >>ABBYE FEELEY: No, and I do not see the petitioner here.
10:07:52 This is the church that is on Osborne that has vacating on
10:07:57 poinsettia just behind Tampa family health center of the
10:08:01 everything looks fine.
10:08:03 >>HARRY COHEN: Is there anyone from the public that wishes
10:08:05 to speak on item number 57?
10:08:06 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move to close.
10:08:14 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
10:08:15 >> Okay.
10:08:19 Mr. Reddick, can you please take item number 57?
10:08:23 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move an ordinance being presented for
10:08:26 second reading and adoption, an ordinance approving special
10:08:28 use permit S-2 approving a place of religious assembly in
10:08:33 the RS-50 residential single-family and RM-16 residential
10:08:39 family zoning district and in the general vicinity of 2103
10:08:46 and 2106 east Osborne Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida
10:08:49 and as more particularly described in section 1 hereof
10:08:52 providing an effective date.
10:08:52 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
10:08:54 >>HARRY COHEN: All those in favor please indicate by voting
10:08:58 and recording.
10:09:09 We need everyone to vote.
10:09:14 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent at
10:09:17 >>HARRY COHEN: Item number 58.
10:09:24 Is there anyone that would like to speak to that item?
10:09:27 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.
10:09:28 The city is the applicant on this petition and we request
10:09:31 >>HARRY COHEN: Is there anyone from the public that would
10:09:34 like to speak on this item?
10:09:39 I would like a motion to close.
10:09:42 >> Motion to close.
10:09:43 >>HARRY COHEN: Motion by Councilwoman Montelione, seconded
10:09:46 by Councilwoman Mulhern on a close vote with Councilman
10:09:49 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
10:09:54 Councilwoman Capin, could you take item number 58, please?
10:10:06 >>YVONNE CAPIN: An ordinance being presented for second
10:10:08 reading and adoption, an ordinance vacating, closing,
10:10:12 discontinuing, and abandoning a portion of Marion street
10:10:15 lying east of Florida Avenue West of Morgan street, south of
10:10:19 Zack Street, north of Twiggs Street in the City of Tampa,
10:10:22 Hillsborough County Florida, the same being fully described
10:10:26 in section 1 hereof subject to certain easements, covenants,
10:10:33 conditions and restrictions as more particularly described
10:10:35 herein providing an effective date.
10:10:36 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
10:10:39 >>HARRY COHEN: Seconded by Councilman Suarez.
10:10:41 Please vote and record.
10:10:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Excuse me. I want to be clear, this is a
10:10:46 substitution that they are voting on and the title is the
10:10:48 same as what they read.
10:10:51 >>HARRY COHEN: She certainly read the latest version of it.
10:10:57 >> Yes, the latest version.
10:11:01 >> The title is exactly the same.
10:11:02 >> Moving the substitute.
10:11:04 Thank you.
10:11:04 >>HARRY COHEN: Please vote and record.
10:11:15 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda and Reddick being
10:11:18 absent at vote.
10:11:19 >>HARRY COHEN: Item number 59.
10:11:22 Is there anyone here that would like to speak to item 59?
10:11:28 Seeing no one.
10:11:40 So we have a motion to close by Councilwoman Mulhern,
10:11:43 seconded by Councilwoman Capin.
10:11:45 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
10:11:49 Mr. Suarez, would you please take item number 59?
10:11:52 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I move an ordinance being presented for
10:11:56 second reading and adoption, an ordinance approving a
10:11:58 special use permit S-2, approving a drive-in window in a CG
10:12:02 commercial general zoning district in the general vicinity
10:12:04 of 4009 North Armenia Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida
10:12:09 and as more particularly described in section 1 hereof
10:12:12 providing an effective date.
10:12:12 >> Second.
10:12:15 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion from Mr. Suarez, seconded
10:12:18 on a close vote by Councilwoman Mulhern and Councilwoman
10:12:22 Please vote and record.
10:12:28 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda and Reddick being
10:12:34 absent at vote.
10:12:34 >>HARRY COHEN: Item number 60.
10:12:41 Is there anyone here that would like to speak to item number
10:12:46 I don't see anyone.
10:12:48 If I could have a motion to close, please.
10:12:50 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Motion to close.
10:12:53 >>HARRY COHEN: Seconded by Ms. Montelione.
10:12:57 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
10:13:02 Councilwoman Montelione, would you please take item number
10:13:05 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Certainly.
10:13:09 Item 60.
10:13:16 I present an ordinance for second reading and adoption,
10:13:19 ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of 111
10:13:22 North Dale Mabry highway in the city of Tampa, Florida and
10:13:24 more particularly described in section 1 from zoning
10:13:26 district classification PD planned development, retail and
10:13:29 restaurant, to PD, planned development, retail, restaurant,
10:13:32 medical office and all CG and CI uses providing an effective
10:13:36 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
10:13:38 >>HARRY COHEN: Seconded by Mr. Suarez.
10:13:40 Please vote and record.
10:13:41 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent at
10:13:53 >>HARRY COHEN: Item number 61.
10:13:57 Is there anyone here that would like to speak to item number
10:14:01 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move to close.
10:14:09 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
10:14:11 >>HARRY COHEN: Motion to close by Mr. Reddick, seconded by
10:14:13 Mr. Suarez.
10:14:14 All those in favor indicate by saying aye.
10:14:19 Ms. Mulhern, would you please take item number 61?
10:14:22 >> I move an ordinance being presented for second reading
10:14:26 and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the general
10:14:28 vicinity of 3314 west Tampa Bay Boulevard in the city of
10:14:33 Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in section 1
10:14:36 from zoning district classification PD planned development
10:14:40 to PD planned development office, business, professional,
10:14:43 providing an effective date.
10:14:44 >> Second.
10:14:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mrs. Mulhern, second by Mr.
10:14:53 Roll call vote.
10:14:54 Vote and record.
10:14:54 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:15:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 62.
10:15:07 Anyone here that would like to speak?
10:15:10 Petitioner or anyone in the audience care to speak on item
10:15:12 number 62?
10:15:14 I see no one at this time.
10:15:16 Motion to close by Mr. Suarez, second by Mr. Cohen.
10:15:19 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
10:15:22 Opposed nay.
10:15:22 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:15:23 Mr. Reddick, would you kindly take number 62, please.
10:15:26 >>FRANK REDDICK: Yes, Mr. Chair.
10:15:29 I move an item for second reading and adoption, an ordinance
10:15:33 rezoning property in the general vicinity of 18 Columbia
10:15:36 drive in the city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly
10:15:39 described in section 1 from zoning district classification
10:15:41 RM-24 residential multifamily to PD planned development,
10:15:46 residential single-family, or Tampa General Hospital, TGH,
10:15:50 residential support house, providing an effective date.
10:15:52 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
10:15:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mr. Reddick, seconded by Mr.
10:16:00 Roll call vote.
10:16:02 Vote and record.
10:16:02 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent at
10:16:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 63.
10:16:16 Petition oar anyone in the audience care to speak on this
10:16:19 item, number 63?
10:16:20 I see no one.
10:16:21 Motion to close by Mr. Cohen, second by Mrs. Montelione.
10:16:25 All in favor?
10:16:26 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:16:27 Ms. Capin, would you kindly take number 63, please?
10:16:30 >> Honest for second reading and adoption, rezoning property
10:16:36 in the general vicinity of 34 Columbia drive in the city of
10:16:40 Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in section 1
10:16:42 from zoning district -- (off microphone).
10:16:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Just a second.
10:16:49 We have a side bar here.
10:16:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can.
10:16:53 What is on the agenda, I believe, is not the substitute.
10:16:59 Ms. Cole, is that correct?
10:17:00 >>JULIA MANDELL: Legal department.
10:17:04 When this case originally came I substituted the ordinance
10:17:06 to read -- to not use the word Tampa General but just to
10:17:12 delineate hospital residential uses.
10:17:14 So that was the ordinance that was substituted at first
10:17:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We can only go by what we have on the
10:17:20 And no one is at fault here.
10:17:23 >>JULIA MANDELL: I just want to make sure we have the right
10:17:25 ordinance and the one read at first reading was the
10:17:28 substitute ordinance.
10:17:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If we can hold this item then.
10:17:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We will hold 63 until further notice.
10:17:42 Then you are looking at 62.
10:17:45 Same thing then, right?
10:17:47 We'll have to undo what we did.
10:17:50 >>JULIA MANDELL: If you want to hold those.
10:17:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We'll hold them but from now on its up to
10:17:57 somebody's department, not us, to find out what the agenda
10:18:00 really says.
10:18:01 If somebody put it on its up to that person to make sure
10:18:03 it's correct on the agenda, not the clerk's office either.
10:18:06 We go to item number 64.
10:18:09 We are holding 63 and we'll have to come back on 62.
10:18:13 On item number 64.
10:18:16 Second reading ordinance of 3936 West Kennedy Boulevard.
10:18:20 Petition oar anyone in the audience care to speak on this
10:18:22 motion on item number 64?
10:18:26 I have a motion to close by Mr. Cohen seconded by Mr.
10:18:34 All in favor?
10:18:35 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:18:37 I apologize.
10:18:38 Ms. Capin, would you kindly take number 64?
10:18:40 >> An ordinance presented for second reading and adoption,
10:18:46 an ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of
10:18:48 3936 West Kennedy Boulevard in the city of Tampa, Florida
10:18:52 and more particularly described in section from zoning
10:18:56 district classification PD, planned development, to CI,
10:18:59 commercial intensive, providing an effective date.
10:19:01 >> Second.
10:19:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Ms. Capin.
10:19:06 I have a second by Mr. Suarez on item number 64.
10:19:10 Roll call vote.
10:19:12 Vote and record.
10:19:12 >> Motion carried with Montelione being absent at vote.
10:19:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen?
10:19:30 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10:19:31 I am abstaining from voting on item number 65 because my
10:19:34 father is one of the petitioners, and Mr. Shelby has the
10:19:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And I am filing that with the clerk.
10:19:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:19:47 Item number 65.
10:19:48 Anyone in the audience, petitioner or otherwise any
10:19:51 individual that would care to speak to number 65?
10:19:54 I see no one.
10:19:55 Motion to close by Mr. Suarez, seconded by Mr. Reddick.
10:20:02 All in favor of the motion to close?
10:20:05 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:20:07 Mr. Suarez, would you kindly take number 65?
10:20:10 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I move an ordinance being presented for
10:20:12 second reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property
10:20:14 in the general vicinity of 2616 and 2618 west Horatio street
10:20:20 in the city of Tampa, Florida, more particularly described
10:20:22 in section 1 from zoning district classification RM-16
10:20:27 residential multifamily to RM-18 residential multifamily
10:20:31 providing an effective date.
10:20:31 >>FRANK REDDICK: Second.
10:20:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Suarez, a second
10:20:36 by Mr. Reddick.
10:20:37 Roll call vote.
10:20:38 Vote and record.
10:20:47 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Cohen abstaining from the
10:20:50 vote, and Montelione being absent at vote.
10:20:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We go to item 66 and then we will go
10:20:56 back, I hope, to 62 and 63.
10:20:58 Item number 66 is on the floor.
10:21:00 Anyone in the audience, petitioner included, that would like
10:21:03 to speak on item number 66?
10:21:07 I see no one.
10:21:09 I have a motion to close by Mr. Reddick, seconded by Mr.
10:21:12 Suarez on 66.
10:21:13 All in favor of the motion indicate by saying aye.
10:21:16 Opposed nay on 66.
10:21:17 Roll call vote.
10:21:25 Oh, I'm sorry.
10:21:28 Mrs. Montelione, 66.
10:21:30 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I present an ordinance for second
10:21:33 reading and adoption, rezoning property in the general
10:21:35 vicinity of 2520 and 2522 North Dale Mabry highway in the
10:21:39 city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in
10:21:41 section 1 from zoning district classifications PD planned
10:21:43 development CI commercial intensive providing an effective
10:21:46 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
10:21:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mrs. Montelione seconded by
10:21:54 Mrs. Mulhern on a close vote with Mr. Suarez.
10:22:01 Roll call -- vote and record.
10:22:06 >> Motion carried unanimously.
10:22:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We go back to 62.
10:22:12 >>MARY MULHERN: We have to undo what we did.
10:22:14 We have the open the hearing on sixty --
10:22:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I could recommend we just ask Ms. Cole
10:22:21 how best to proceed on 62 and 63 before we do this?
10:22:25 >>JULIA MANDELL: I believe you voted on 62.
10:22:28 I don't believe --
10:22:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We did not vote on 63.
10:22:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: With regard to the ordinance --
10:22:34 >> The correct ordinance was read at first reading with the
10:22:36 correct title in the language.
10:22:38 I have handed to the clerk the correct ordinance read at
10:22:46 first reading on 62 and of 36789 on 62 since you took the
10:22:49 vote I would ask a motion to rescind that vote and then take
10:22:52 a new vote on this correct one.
10:22:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand but in order to do that I
10:22:56 have to open the hearing.
10:22:57 I can't just rescind it.
10:23:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: We're in the middle of 63 so perhaps --
10:23:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am going to do what I want to do
10:23:05 because I think 63 was held.
10:23:06 It was never voted on.
10:23:07 62 was passed.
10:23:08 So correctly I don't want to get any more confused than I am
10:23:11 to the general public so I am going to go back to original
10:23:13 62 to open it and rescind it and then bring it back from the
10:23:17 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move to reopen 62.
10:23:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second by Mr. Suarez.
10:23:22 Further discussion by council members?
10:23:24 All in favor of the motion indicate by saying aye.
10:23:26 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:23:28 Need a motion to rescind 62 from the prior vote.
10:23:31 I have that motion from Mrs. Montelione, second by Mr. Cohen
10:23:34 on a close vote with Mr. Suarez to rescind 62.
10:23:36 Anyone in the audience care to speak on that item?
10:23:38 All in favor of the motion?
10:23:41 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:23:42 Now, need somebody to read 62 as corrected.
10:23:47 Mr. Reddick, do you have the proper one there?
10:23:51 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
10:24:07 Move an ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity
10:24:10 of 18 Columbia drive in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
10:24:13 particularly described in section 1 from zoning district
10:24:15 classification RM-24 residential multifamily to PD planned
10:24:20 development, residential single-family or hospital
10:24:24 residential support housing, providing an effective date.
10:24:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Reddick.
10:24:31 I have a second by Mr. Cohen on a close vote with Mr.
10:24:36 Roll call vote on 62.
10:24:39 Vote and record.
10:24:39 >> Motion carried unanimously.
10:24:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Now 63 was open.
10:24:50 It was never voted on.
10:24:53 So I am going to go back and say anyone on 63 that would
10:24:56 like to speak one more time, petitioner or public, please
10:24:59 identify yourself and come forward.
10:25:00 I see no one.
10:25:01 >> Motion to close.
10:25:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion to close by Mr. Cohen seconded by
10:25:06 Mr. Reddick.
10:25:08 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:25:10 Mr. Cohen, would you kindly take number 63?
10:25:13 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10:25:17 I move an ordinance being presented for second reading and
10:25:21 An ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of 34
10:25:25 Columbia drive in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
10:25:28 particularly described in section 1 from zoning district
10:25:31 classification RM-24 residential multifamily to PD planned
10:25:36 development, residential single-family or hospital
10:25:39 residential support housing providing an effective date.
10:25:41 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
10:25:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mr. Cohen, second by Mr.
10:25:47 Roll call vote.
10:25:48 Vote and record on 63.
10:25:56 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:26:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We did 64, 65 and 66.
10:26:04 We are now at 67.
10:26:05 >>MARY MULHERN:
10:26:10 This is a staff report.
10:26:12 Unfinished business.
10:26:13 Yes, ma'am.
10:26:13 >>SONYA LITTLE: Good morning.
10:26:17 Sonya little, finance, here to brief you on the resolution
10:26:24 before you.
10:26:25 It's a resolution requesting your approval of the Tampa
10:26:27 historic streetcar budget for fiscal year 2013.
10:26:32 A bit of background for you.
10:26:33 This budget has previously been approved by the board of
10:26:37 Hart and the historic streetcar already.
10:26:41 It's coming before you because of our tri-party agreement
10:26:43 with Hartline and the Tampa historic streetcar.
10:26:48 More over in the way of background.
10:26:52 In fiscal years 2010 and 11, the streetcar previously did
10:26:58 pass through its endowment fund.
10:27:02 In 2012 the current fiscal year it did not have to tap into
10:27:07 its endowment fund.
10:27:08 In addition the city did not have to provide additional
10:27:11 subsidies, and that's over and beyond what we provide
10:27:13 through our CRA as.
10:27:20 The 2013 budget, it continued to improve on the operating
10:27:24 efficiencies, decreasing their operating expenditures, and
10:27:28 it's anticipated for the upcoming budget year again, we will
10:27:31 not have to provide any additional subsidies.
10:27:35 Outlined in your resolution is a detailed line item by line
10:27:41 item description of where the revenue sources are and how
10:27:44 they are to be expended.
10:27:47 The total 2013 budget is 2,170,000.
10:27:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:27:56 Any council member discussion?
10:27:57 >>MIKE SUAREZ: No discussion.
10:27:58 I would like to move the item.
10:28:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Suarez to move the
10:28:02 resolution, seconded by Mrs. Capin.
10:28:04 Further discussion by council members?
10:28:06 All in favor of the motion?
10:28:07 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:28:09 Thank you very much, Ms. Little.
10:28:11 Item number 68.
10:28:13 A quarterly report.
10:28:16 Any discussion?
10:28:18 We need to receive and file.
10:28:19 >> Move to receive and file.
10:28:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione to
10:28:24 receive and file.
10:28:25 Seconded by Mr. Suarez.
10:28:29 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Ms. Coyle is not here?
10:28:31 It is written but she said she would come in because she had
10:28:33 some added information.
10:28:34 But I guess -- she is here.
10:28:47 It is written but she had some added information.
10:28:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No problem.
10:28:52 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I apologize, council.
10:28:55 Catherine Coyle, planning and develop.
10:28:57 You have a report before you.
10:28:58 I believe there's been a report in December.
10:29:01 I spoke with Ms. Capin about the progress we were making on
10:29:04 the database that we have and it's actually a mapping
10:29:09 And I brought an example, a map that we produced for TPD at
10:29:14 the beginning of this particular month, and this is a
10:29:26 digital version.
10:29:29 What we are going to do is produce maps in targeted areas
10:29:33 where there's large concentrations of alcohol issues that
10:29:36 the TPD has found.
10:29:37 The neat thing about this is a database.
10:29:42 It's not only just text form but a mapping database.
10:29:44 You can actually see the locations and where they are.
10:29:46 Corresponding to the actual locations. Obviously it's data
10:29:51 of exactly what type of alcohol, the ordinance that granted
10:29:53 it, the name of the establishment, the business address.
10:29:56 Beyond that, the database that we have, we can produce the
10:30:02 maps readily for people.
10:30:03 We are going to be using as our record tool for alcohol as
10:30:07 well, because what is in the information, which is
10:30:09 considered attributes of that particular layer, is also any
10:30:14 information tracking, letters that we have issued to them,
10:30:17 any type of enforcement, whether or not they have been
10:30:19 posted for dry status, conditions, to go along with the
10:30:23 alcohol placard, so they actually become an automated
10:30:27 So as they get approved, as the research that we have done
10:30:31 thus far gets uploaded and most of it is in already, we will
10:30:34 be able to essentially dump the information from the
10:30:36 database either into a map form, or we can dump it into a
10:30:41 spreadsheet and automatically generate placards and letters
10:30:45 and become a much more automated practice rather than doing
10:30:48 it by our little hard copy Rolodex card.
10:30:51 So we have been moving along actually getting everything
10:30:53 into a digital format.
10:30:55 All those Rolodex cards have been scanned.
10:30:57 They will link the database.
10:30:59 Anytime you are in the map and you see a location you find
10:31:01 out all the information, you can click on the link and the
10:31:04 Rolodex card actually will pop you will as well as a PDF of
10:31:08 the scanned ordinance, and if there is a site plan
10:31:11 associated that City Council or staff has approved that also
10:31:13 can pop up.
10:31:17 It's amazing because we never used to have that before.
10:31:19 So hopefully we are in attesting mode right now, with two
10:31:23 employees, construction development services, and hoping to
10:31:29 role it out officially within the next dumb of months once
10:31:32 we work all the bugs out.
10:31:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Capin and Mrs. Montelione.
10:31:37 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
10:31:38 When we talked yesterday, I asked her to come forward
10:31:41 because this grew out of the comprehensive safety placard,
10:31:48 and it's just really gone over and beyond.
10:31:53 And I'm sure that TBC is very excited about having this
10:32:01 information at their fingertips.
10:32:02 Thank you for your diligent work.
10:32:04 I really appreciate it.
10:32:04 >>LISA MONTELIONE: This has got to be a great relief to the
10:32:15 rest of the staff to move into the 21st century.
10:32:19 Throws a lot of people out there that probably don't know
10:32:21 what a Rolodex card is.
10:32:23 But --
10:32:25 >> We were keeping them in busy by continuing to order the
10:32:29 [ Laughter ]
10:32:31 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I know.
10:32:32 Trying to leap to the next movement but is this available on
10:32:41 the Internet?
10:32:45 I know it's a huge leap.
10:32:46 We just now have made that one forward to the 21st
10:32:52 I know I --
10:32:54 >>> There are ways to make these maps interactive on the
10:32:57 There's a whole other process that's going on behind the
10:32:59 scenes of building these types of web apps so staff can use
10:33:03 And we are working through figuring out how to get them
10:33:06 >>LISA MONTELIONE: It would probably be helpful to the
10:33:11 general public if they have a question or maybe somebody
10:33:13 doing research from the professional community.
10:33:15 >> Right.
10:33:17 >>LISA MONTELIONE: That would help.
10:33:20 >>CATHERINE COYLE: All of these things are in our mind and
10:33:21 on the horizon.
10:33:22 It just getting all the pieces put together.
10:33:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other council members?
10:33:30 We had a motion to receive and file by Mrs. Montelione,
10:33:34 seconded by Mrs. Capin.
10:33:36 All in favor of the motion?
10:33:38 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:33:39 Item 69, the legal department?
10:33:44 >> Good morning. Kate Taylor, legal department.
10:33:50 I'm here to present to you with an ordinance related to the
10:33:52 domestic ordinance registry.
10:33:54 This ordinance actually amends the city code.
10:33:56 It adds a provision recognizing domestic partnerships
10:34:00 registered in other jurisdictions.
10:34:02 The language mirrors the language that I submit towed by
10:34:06 memorandum, prior to your last regular meeting.
10:34:10 Haven't made any changes to that.
10:34:11 And as we discussed last meeting, there are no geographic
10:34:17 limits attached to that.
10:34:20 I also just want to point out, I took this opportunity to
10:34:26 track a couple of small errors in the registry ordinance as
10:34:30 part of that as well.
10:34:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is a first reading.
10:34:33 Anyone in the public care to speak on this item number 69?
10:34:36 I see no one.
10:34:37 Need a motion to close.
10:34:40 Motion to close by Mrs. Capin, second by Mr. Cohen.
10:34:42 All in favor of the motion?
10:34:44 The ayes have it.
10:34:46 Ms. Capin, do you want to read the ordinance?
10:34:49 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
10:34:51 First I would like to say something.
10:34:54 This is another step in fairness to our city, and joining
10:35:00 the 21st century.
10:35:05 Zoning administrator to provide -- wait a minute, that's the
10:35:09 wrong one.
10:35:09 Legal department to appear and present -- oh, wait a minute.
10:35:12 Ordinance being presented for first reading.
10:35:16 I'll get to it.
10:35:17 Ordinance being presented for first reading and
10:35:19 consideration, an ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida
10:35:21 amending City of Tampa code of ordinances, chapter 12,
10:35:24 article V, by creating section 12-127, recognition of
10:35:31 domestic partnerships registered in other jurisdictions,
10:35:36 revising section 12-124 and 12-126 to correct scrivener's
10:35:42 errors setting forth erroneous internal section references,
10:35:47 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
10:35:51 providing for severability, providing an effective date.
10:35:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mrs. Capin, seconded by Mr.
10:36:02 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
10:36:05 Opposed nay.
10:36:05 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:36:06 Item number --
10:36:09 >>THE CLERK: Second reading of the ordinance will be held
10:36:11 October 18th at 9:30 a.m.
10:36:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 70.
10:36:20 Parks recreation director, back there taking notes.
10:36:24 I have seen him for a while.
10:36:26 I wish he was sitting closer to move the council meeting
10:36:30 But your five minutes are about up.
10:36:32 >> Greg Bayor, director parks and recreation.
10:36:40 Regarding the Bayshore issues that were brought over by the
10:36:43 landscaping, I would like to point out it's always been the
10:36:48 department policy to try to use native plants whenever
10:36:52 The initiative was especially unique.
10:36:56 We were asked to provide year round color, to look for some
10:37:01 different plants suitable to the Florida area.
10:37:03 The flowering trees down there are known as the VERA wood, I
10:37:10 have been told a south American species can withstand
10:37:16 temperatures down to minus 32 degrees.
10:37:18 It's a very hardy tree.
10:37:20 The bushes for the most part, all native Florida bushes that
10:37:26 went in, and the ground coverage is pretty unique, and
10:37:32 besides providing flower, it can take abuse of the
10:37:37 Gasparilla parade.
10:37:40 Regarding maintenance and funding issues that came up, we
10:37:43 are well prepared to handle the beautification projects
10:37:47 throughout the city with existing funds that have been
10:37:49 approved in this budget.
10:37:51 The Gasparilla festival's impact, we did review the
10:37:57 landscaping plans.
10:37:58 There was no concerns.
10:38:00 There will be large available for the corporate tents.
10:38:03 There will be ample route for the crowd where there are
10:38:07 They are still low enough that they should not be impacted.
10:38:13 Safety and transportation, first of all my landscape
10:38:18 architectiture -- transportation did work with us and review
10:38:24 the plans and did go out for pre and post inspection, and
10:38:29 there was one recommendation to move the trees back to
10:38:32 improve line of sight.
10:38:33 Regarding funding.
10:38:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We are on item A.
10:38:44 Mrs. Mulhern.
10:38:45 >>MARY MULHERN: If we have questions about you about
10:38:47 landscaping let's do that first and then hear from Dennis.
10:38:50 I was told that those zerowood trees were not saltwater
10:38:57 tolerant and not freeze tolerant.
10:38:59 >> The information I got from my staff is they are saltwater
10:39:03 tolerant and they can withstand temperatures of minus 32
10:39:07 >> We'll look it up.
10:39:09 What about the fact -- this is a very sensitive problem that
10:39:12 we now have shrubs that are on the waterside of Bayshore.
10:39:18 And there used to be bushes there years ago, and after a
10:39:26 woman was assaulted there we got rid of them.
10:39:29 So it was really a safety problem.
10:39:31 And that's why that space has been left open.
10:39:37 So that's another question.
10:39:40 I don't know --
10:39:42 >> I could take a look at it.
10:39:48 I'm very sensitive of the safety concerns.
10:39:51 >> We'll Google it for you and find it.
10:39:54 The on the thing about it, I know there's ample room for
10:39:57 Gasparilla, but that area where the trees and the bushes
10:40:03 were planted on the waterside, didn't that used to have
10:40:08 I don't know.
10:40:09 >> I haven't experienced my first Gasparilla yet.
10:40:14 And so I don't know the actual -- I know it will be a few
10:40:18 sections that could be sensitive.
10:40:21 >> Trial by fire.
10:40:23 The Republican convention, Gasparilla --
10:40:25 >> We did meet with stakeholders and there's a high level of
10:40:28 comfort about the design.
10:40:29 Things may shift a little bit but we should be okay.
10:40:31 >>MARY MULHERN: Here is what I am going to ask of he have
10:40:36 department head that came here today.
10:40:38 I understand that it's difficult to sometimes do your job
10:40:47 with weighing public input.
10:40:49 But I really feel that -- and I think we heard today about
10:40:54 the Ybor trees which we'll talk about later.
10:40:58 But this happened with the last mayor when she had her
10:41:02 public works department go cut down all the trees in Kiley
10:41:05 Gardens, which was just a gem of landscape architecture
10:41:16 renowned in the whole world with no warning, no public
10:41:19 So I think especially when we are talking about Bayshore
10:41:23 Boulevard, which is, you know, the signature linear park of
10:41:29 the city, when we are talking about Ybor City, our historic
10:41:34 district -- and I'm not scolding you because I don't hold
10:41:37 you responsible for any of this.
10:41:40 I hold the mayor responsible for making these really big
10:41:45 decisions without any public input, and City Council is a
10:41:54 good place to get public input.
10:41:55 That's what we are here for.
10:41:57 And we have to answer to our constituents when they wake up
10:41:59 and their trees are gone.
10:42:01 And this is an example of -- and frankly, you know, I'm
10:42:12 parks and recreation chair, and no decisions have been
10:42:16 shared with me beforehand.
10:42:18 So I think it just not good government to not involve
10:42:25 neighborhoods in our most important, most significant areas
10:42:31 of the city.
10:42:33 It's not right to do it to any other area.
10:42:35 I live in South Tampa.
10:42:36 If I woke up and saw that all the oak trees were cut in the
10:42:41 median that is not my property but is part of the
10:42:45 right-of-way, we woke up and saw that, I don't think that
10:42:47 would go over too well.
10:42:49 So I would like you to be aware that that's just not okay.
10:42:58 And I still have a lot of questions but I am not going to
10:43:01 belabor this because I am going to be asking later for you
10:43:03 to come back, and I'm sure everyone else will, on the Ybor
10:43:07 So if I have more questions about this, I'll reserve them
10:43:13 for then.
10:43:13 >> There's been certainly a lot of press on this already and
10:43:21 I would like to discuss the Ybor situation.
10:43:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We are getting so many trees here and
10:43:28 not --
10:43:31 >> We will have a thorough report ready.
10:43:33 We can do it now or --
10:43:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No, we are not going to do it now.
10:43:36 >>> Okay.
10:43:41 >>MARY MULHERN: My other issues have to do with the budget.
10:43:46 >> The last piece I would add is we are sensitive to the
10:43:52 I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman, but we are getting word out to the
10:43:57 community and promise we'll do that.
10:43:59 >> I have questions for Mr. Rogero.
10:44:12 >> Dennis Rogero, Revenue And Finance.
10:44:15 I believe you asked about funding sources associated with
10:44:17 the Bayshore improvement.
10:44:19 To date we have budgeted approximately $800,000 for Bayshore
10:44:22 improvements around approximately $700,000 has been spent,
10:44:27 and it's about a one-third, two-thirds division between the
10:44:31 tree trust fund and the community investment tax.
10:44:34 Almost $300,000 budgeted for Bayshore from the tree trust
10:44:39 And we spent approximately $200,000 to date.
10:44:44 All in all about 800,000.
10:44:46 >> From the tree fund you have spent 300,000, or you budged
10:44:52 You budgeted 300,000?
10:44:54 >> Yes.
10:44:55 >>MARY MULHERN: And you spent 200?
10:44:56 >> Yes, ma'am.
10:44:57 >>MARY MULHERN: How much money is there in the tree fund?
10:45:03 >> There remains an unencumbered balance of 300,000.
10:45:09 Total tree trust funding available is almost 1.3 million.
10:45:12 About a million of that has been budgeted and appropriated
10:45:16 for expenses.
10:45:16 >> Can you explain to the public what that tree fund is,
10:45:22 where that money comes from?
10:45:24 >> Certainly.
10:45:27 Funding from developers or anybody, actually, who wants to
10:45:30 improve the land, set aside in escrow for trees in other
10:45:36 It can be spent only on trees, for instance.
10:45:38 >> Only trees.
10:45:39 But the money comes from anywhere, where someone is --
10:45:47 instead of saving a tree or planting a tree, they give to
10:45:50 the tree fund.
10:45:51 Is that what it is?
10:45:52 >> That is an option, yes, ma'am.
10:45:53 >> It's a mitigation, but if I cut down trees I'm building
10:45:59 and I say I am going give to the trust fund instead of
10:46:02 planting, I don't have any say over where those trees go?
10:46:07 >> I don't know that.
10:46:10 I don't know if it's restricted.
10:46:11 >> I'm pretty sure you don't.
10:46:13 So give me that number again.
10:46:18 1.3 million.
10:46:21 And you spent 300 out of that, and you budgeted -- how much
10:46:27 is in the budget to be spent on trees?
10:46:29 >> Another $700,000.
10:46:32 >> So you are going spend the whole tree fund down just
10:46:38 Another 700,000 overall?
10:46:40 Or just on Bayshore?
10:46:42 >> Overall.
10:46:43 >> So where is that going to go?
10:46:45 >> That's going to go to a number of other improvements.
10:46:48 Ashley, Laurel, and Doyle parking, holistic downtown tree
10:46:56 replacement, and city-wide tree removal and planting, for
10:47:00 example, the Ybor trees.
10:47:01 >> I'm sorry, city-wide --
10:47:05 >> City-wide tree removal and planting.
10:47:07 >> Removal and planting.
10:47:12 And just to summarize, unencumbered and unobligated
10:47:17 approximately $300,000.
10:47:18 >> That's how much is remaining after the budget and it's
10:47:24 all going downtown in Ybor?
10:47:26 >> City-wide.
10:47:30 Ybor's is an example.
10:47:32 >> Maybe when we get around to talking about Ybor we cannot
10:47:35 ask you to bring back a breakdown of where all this money
10:47:40 is, and actually maybe tonight we should have that, see
10:47:43 where that tree fund money is going.
10:47:45 >> I'll make a note.
10:47:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen.
10:47:50 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you.
10:47:53 Some of you may remember that about six to eight months ago
10:47:57 I brought up the condition of Bayshore Boulevard in this
10:48:01 meeting, and there were some subsequent articles written
10:48:04 about it.
10:48:05 And it led to some discussions that commissioner Murman and
10:48:10 I had about things that could be done to improve it.
10:48:12 And I first of all want to thank Hillsborough County for
10:48:15 repaving Bayshore in its entirety from Rome to Gandy during
10:48:20 the past six months.
10:48:21 It took away a patchwork quilt of asphalt and replaced it
10:48:25 with an entirely new road surface and a new bike lane.
10:48:30 As to some of the issues that were brought up, I just wanted
10:48:34 to make a few comments regarding the specific landscaping
10:48:39 and some of the concerns that Ms. Mulhern raised.
10:48:42 First of all, when we had tropical storm Debby, I believe it
10:48:46 was Debby -- I lost track of the alphabet of some of the
10:48:51 storms -- but Bayshore was completely flooded and it was
10:48:54 closed for about two days, and the water was actually up
10:48:57 sitting on the median.
10:48:58 And an awful lot of people were very, very concerned,
10:49:01 because the landscaping had just been put in, and people
10:49:04 said, oh, my gosh, here the saltwater has come up three
10:49:08 weeks after the plants were planted, how is it going to
10:49:11 And I can tell you, if I drive down them today, I don't
10:49:13 think we have lost a thing, or if we did, it was pretty
10:49:16 minimal and it was replaced very, very quickly.
10:49:20 So I think that on the question of the saltwater tolerance,
10:49:23 the question has actually been answered in terms of events
10:49:28 that have taken place.
10:49:29 In regard to the bushes, I have had a chance to talk to some
10:49:33 of the people that were involved in the original move to get
10:49:37 rid of those bushes, and my understanding is that the real
10:49:41 concern is that they not grow to a height beyond what they
10:49:44 are now.
10:49:45 They are very, very small at the moment.
10:49:46 They are only about a foot or foot and a half high.
10:49:49 I think the concern, as much as their existence, is just
10:49:54 that they be properly maintained so they don't grow large
10:49:56 enough to create a visual barrier between the balustrade and
10:50:00 the road.
10:50:01 So I wanted to just point those things out.
10:50:04 And I finally wanted to really compliment the city on the
10:50:09 I agree with Councilwoman Mulhern about the need for public
10:50:12 input, and I think that's a very good point.
10:50:15 But I want to say that one of the things that happens during
10:50:18 this project was that a lot of homeowners along Bayshore
10:50:21 contacted my office with questions once they saw the work
10:50:25 being done, and as far as I know, in every single case, the
10:50:29 city actually reached out to these people, in some cases,
10:50:33 visited their properties, and actually made some adjustments
10:50:36 to the plan, at least in terms of just the people who live
10:50:40 right there.
10:50:41 The second point about that is that everything I have ever
10:50:46 been involved with on this council in the past year and a
10:50:48 half, I have never had people come up to me and stop me in
10:50:53 the store and on the street and on the sidewalk and in the
10:50:56 elevator and all sorts of different places and tell me how
10:50:59 much they love the Bayshore improvement.
10:51:01 I hear it over and over and over again.
10:51:03 And it's not just people who live on the Bayshore, because
10:51:06 there are thousands of people out there he have day biking
10:51:08 and walking and running, many of whom, most of whom travel
10:51:12 to get there, because it's such a unique and wonderful way
10:51:16 to spend some time, and I would incidentally add that for
10:51:20 bikers, it's really quite enhanced over it was just a few
10:51:24 months ago.
10:51:25 I know we are going to hear from Ms. Duncan about some of
10:51:28 the transportation issues, but I just wanted to say that the
10:51:34 public input that I have gotten has been really
10:51:39 overwhelmingly positive about the whole project and I have
10:51:42 been very pleased with it.
10:51:43 Thank you.
10:51:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other council members before I go
10:51:46 back to Ms. Mulhern?
10:51:47 Ms. Mulhern.
10:51:48 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
10:51:50 I won't go five minutes.
10:51:52 I just wanted to respond.
10:51:56 I am thrilled that you are getting good responses in your
10:51:59 I'm getting mixed.
10:52:01 And that's why I brought this up.
10:52:04 I have people that had a lot of questions and a lot of
10:52:06 I guess they call me with complaints and they tell you the
10:52:09 good stuff.
10:52:10 But I just wanted to ask you with regard to that whole
10:52:14 flooding and salt tolerance thing, you had to replant the
10:52:20 trees, right?
10:52:23 >> Out of the ground, yes.
10:52:27 We took three trees that were still in shock and they had a
10:52:29 chance -- they came back and reused them.
10:52:35 >> I mean, I agree with Councilman Cohen, mostly it looks
10:52:39 I think the peanut is a great solution if it can be
10:52:42 irrigated because I know I tried to plant that, and because
10:52:45 I wasn't watering, it didn't last.
10:52:48 So as long as you have decent irrigation.
10:52:50 But how much of Bayshore -- I think that we haven't
10:52:59 necessarily solved the problem of whether these are the best
10:53:01 plants, which we will find out going forward, but I think a
10:53:04 lot of Bayshore wasn't planted yet when that storm hit.
10:53:07 They were still working on it.
10:53:09 I think we may still have to wait and see.
10:53:12 Thank you.
10:53:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else?
10:53:16 Item B.
10:53:23 >>> Jean Duncan, Transportation.
10:53:28 I just wanted to provide an updated report to a couple of
10:53:33 adjustments to new information I received, since this was
10:53:36 submitted I wanted to provide that to you.
10:53:46 You requested information regarding the recommendation, the
10:53:52 status of those recommendations that were made by the
10:53:55 Bayshore task force.
10:53:58 Those recommendations came out in a report in 2004.
10:54:02 And the city has been working steadily on most of those
10:54:07 recommendations since that time.
10:54:10 Just to summarize the information that you have before you
10:54:14 and to let the public know we are going to put this report
10:54:16 on the transportation Web site, for people that like to get
10:54:21 This is summarized.
10:54:24 The city alone, transportationwise, has spent over $4
10:54:28 million on the Bayshore since 2004.
10:54:31 That doesn't include the landscaping or the Hillsborough
10:54:33 County resurfacing or some other things that have gone out
10:54:37 on the Bayshore.
10:54:38 So we have put a lot of investment and taken the
10:54:41 recommendation seriously that came along in 2004.
10:54:46 Just to point out a couple of the major projects that were
10:54:49 done that are in your report, we did a project down at
10:54:53 Bayshore and Gandy that included upgraded traffic signals,
10:54:58 striping, pedestrian features, and that was done a number of
10:55:02 years ago, that has been very well received and has provided
10:55:06 a lot of improvement safety at that location.
10:55:10 Another project that was done was at Howard and Bayshore.
10:55:13 Again, pedestrian upgrade, enhanced crosswalks, and safer
10:55:19 condition than was previously out there.
10:55:21 The one major project that allowed for the landscaping to be
10:55:26 put out on the Bayshore was the Bayshore corridor
10:55:29 enhancement project that included the bicycle lanes, it also
10:55:34 included the grass median that is out there north of Rome
10:55:38 Avenue, and what that project also included was six left
10:55:46 turn lanes heading northbound which will help reduce
10:55:49 conflict and accident potential by giving people a separated
10:55:52 place to make a left turn as they are trying to head west
10:55:56 onto the Bayshore.
10:55:57 That project was approximately $2.5 million.
10:56:01 And we have another $450,000 in the DOT work program to
10:56:06 continue that project from Rome to Howard.
10:56:11 We also are deeming in that work program for another
10:56:15 $2.8 million to complete the project all the way down to
10:56:19 So it is our intention to continue that work south at Rome
10:56:24 Avenue, and to continue that project with the bicycle lanes,
10:56:29 the left turn lane, the pedestrian features, the median, all
10:56:33 of those features that you see currently out there.
10:56:36 We will be continuing that work further down to Gandy
10:56:42 Other items that have been put out on the Bayshore as part
10:56:44 of the recommendations includes signage.
10:56:47 We installed a number of sidewalks and ADA ramps.
10:56:50 Obviously, you saw the resurfacing project in Hillsborough
10:56:54 And the landscaping work.
10:56:57 So that is a summary of what has been accomplished under
10:57:03 those progress reports.
10:57:04 I just want to point out in your report out of those 37
10:57:07 items that are listed, one of those is no longer applicable
10:57:12 because of the Bayshore enhancement project took care of
10:57:17 that issue.
10:57:17 That was number 17.
10:57:19 There's a couple of items that are not feasible because the
10:57:24 request on number 25, 36, aren't physically possible to do.
10:57:30 And item number 34, funding is not available at this time.
10:57:35 I would be happy to go item by item, if you like, but I
10:57:40 wanted to kind of give a summary of that information that
10:57:43 you have and take your questions.
10:57:45 >>HARRY COHEN: I just wanted to point out that two months
10:57:52 ago we had discussion about -- and I believe we had
10:57:56 authorized a meeting of the Bayshore task force and I wanted
10:57:59 to let everyone know that we are doing that.
10:58:01 We are having two meetings in October with the
10:58:03 transportation staff, myself, and some of the people that
10:58:06 originally served on that task force and in the affected
10:58:10 neighborhoods to talk about some go-forward issues with
10:58:12 Bayshore, and one of the things that continually comes up is
10:58:17 the enforcement of the no trucks, the truck prohibition on
10:58:22 the street.
10:58:23 So those meetings are in the process of being staffed.
10:58:25 We wanted to wait until after the convention was over to do
10:58:28 But that will be going forward.
10:58:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:58:31 Anyone else?
10:58:32 Ms. Mulhern?
10:58:33 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
10:58:34 Thank you, Ms. Duncan, for this report.
10:58:38 It great.
10:58:38 It's great news.
10:58:40 I'm thrilled to hear that all these things got completed.
10:58:43 I feel really old, because when this got started I was
10:58:46 trying to push a stroller across Bayshore.
10:58:50 That was a long time ago.
10:58:51 But you have done a great job.
10:58:53 I think that the new lanes, the bicycle paths, everything,
10:58:58 all of the transportation improvements have been good.
10:59:00 I still think we need a light.
10:59:02 I don't know if that was on here but we need a light at roam
10:59:05 to slow down the traffic which is part of the problem.
10:59:07 But I don't even know if that was one of the
10:59:10 My only question for you is the question that Vicki Pollyea
10:59:17 had, with regard to the new landscaping and the effect on
10:59:22 So I hope we are going to be monitoring it because I do
10:59:27 agree that it is -- the trees in the median can impede the
10:59:33 view for both cars, bicyclists, and especially for
10:59:38 pedestrians when you are cross.
10:59:40 It got those trees in the median.
10:59:42 And it's hard to necessarily see the on come traffic.
10:59:47 So just as long as we really, you know, keep our eye on
10:59:50 that, and, you know, I know the city has no problem cutting
10:59:54 down trees.
10:59:55 So if we find out that we have a safety issue, just to
10:59:59 monitor it.
10:59:59 >> Yes.
11:00:03 We did review those plans on the front end and we did go out
11:00:06 twice with the architects who are trained in this area, by
11:00:11 the way, to just give another perspective.
11:00:15 We did adjust a couple locations.
11:00:16 So we feel very comfortable that what's out there is
11:00:21 criteria by design standard, and it is safe.
11:00:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:00:26 Anyone else?
11:00:28 Item C.
11:00:30 You sent a memorandum to us.
11:00:32 Any questions on that memorandum?
11:00:36 All right.
11:00:37 Thank you all very much.
11:00:38 I really appreciate it very much.
11:00:39 Council appreciates it and the taxpayers appreciate it.
11:00:42 It's a beautiful job, as Mr. Cohen explained earlier, with
11:00:47 little need of a little tweak.
11:00:49 Item 71 was moved earlier in the meeting to November
11:00:53 Item number 72.
11:00:59 >>JULIA MANDELL: Legal department.
11:01:00 You have in front of you an ordinance for temporary
11:01:03 abatement for the operation and use of gaming devices. We
11:01:08 discussed this item last week.
11:01:10 Council has now set a workshop discussion for I think for
11:01:14 the November workshop item in which I will be taking the
11:01:18 information that we talked about at the last workshop and
11:01:20 presenting you with draft ordinance at that time so that we
11:01:24 can discuss and debate the regulation of the gaming devices.
11:01:31 I have defined in this ordinance what that means.
11:01:34 We have used definitions to express what types of activities
11:01:37 are allowed and not allowed.
11:01:39 There are also per our discussion in the meeting we had last
11:01:43 week, there are several exemptions but the most important
11:01:46 exemption is the exemption for those businesses which
11:01:49 already have and are using the simulated gaming devices
11:01:52 within their businesses that they can continue to operate
11:01:58 If you are operating today, this would not impact you at
11:02:02 This would only be for those businesses which are not
11:02:05 currently using those types of simulated gaming devices.
11:02:10 The other thing that's important to note about this
11:02:12 ordinance is that it is good for six months from the date of
11:02:16 the adoption, and at that point in time it will end by its
11:02:19 own operation.
11:02:20 It won't require another action by City Council for that to
11:02:24 That will give us adequate time, in my opinion, to go ahead
11:02:28 and process any regulations or put in place any regulations
11:02:32 which City Council may feel are appropriate, deem
11:02:35 appropriate after initial discussions to regulate these
11:02:37 types of devices.
11:02:39 I'm available for any questions.
11:02:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:02:44 This is a presentation of the draft ordinance, not ordinance
11:02:46 >> It's only a temporary abatement ordinance, not the new
11:02:51 ordinance that we will be discussing in approximately two
11:02:53 >> Mr. Suarez?
11:02:55 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Quick question.
11:02:56 The definition you had for simulated gaming device, is that
11:02:59 a definition that coincides with Florida statute in terms of
11:03:01 what that is?
11:03:02 Or is that a definition used by --
11:03:08 >> Yeah, that's a very good question.
11:03:10 There is no specific definition in Florida statutes as
11:03:13 relates to gaming device day. Is review several
11:03:17 jurisdictions including Hillsborough County and that
11:03:20 definition is in line.
11:03:24 I used the city of Jacksonville definition which I deemed
11:03:27 most appropriate given the approach that the City of Tampa
11:03:28 is taking on this issue.
11:03:30 >> So any definition that you have in here, I know that you
11:03:34 always have something in Florida statute overrides it.
11:03:37 But there's nothing in here that inhibits or is in conflict
11:03:42 with state law in terms of the definition itself?
11:03:45 >> That's correct.
11:03:46 >> Other than the specific locations that you mention in
11:03:48 >> That's correct.
11:03:49 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
11:03:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other council members?
11:03:54 Thank you very much.
11:03:54 We go to item --
11:04:00 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I move the ordinance.
11:04:01 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
11:04:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, Ms. Cole?
11:04:11 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Read the ordinance.
11:04:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's council's pleasure.
11:04:18 Obviously first reading doesn't require public hearing.
11:04:20 It's not set for a first reading but if council wishes to do
11:04:22 so, county do so today.
11:04:24 Otherwise set it for the next regular meeting.
11:04:26 But otherwise, it's appropriate if council wishes.
11:04:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The way I look at it this is an abatement
11:04:34 so futures can't come in until the ordinance at sometime in
11:04:36 the future within six months.
11:04:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: This is just a first reading.
11:04:42 It's not an adoption.
11:04:42 It will come back on October 18th for a public hearing
11:04:49 for council to take input before adoption.
11:04:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say I am going to support this on
11:04:53 the floor today but I will not support it in the second
11:04:56 reading if it doesn't come through with a State of Florida
11:04:58 department of business professional regulation and there is
11:05:01 that laundry list we asked about last time because we are
11:05:04 getting into an area that's really state driven.
11:05:06 >>JULIA MANDELL: What we can go ahead and do for second
11:05:14 reading I can make every effort to try to get whoever --
11:05:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That was given to you early -- earlier.
11:05:21 I am not going to tell you what to do or not to do. You
11:05:24 don't work for us.
11:05:25 You do and you don't.
11:05:26 I can't ask you -- we did ask you already.
11:05:28 >> And I told you I would --
11:05:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right, I got it.
11:05:33 Mrs. Capin.
11:05:34 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I remember that, you did say you would not
11:05:36 be able to have it for today.
11:05:38 I do remember that.
11:05:39 An ordinance being presented for first reading
11:05:42 consideration, an ordinance approving a temporary abatement
11:05:47 on the operation and use of simulated gaming devices for use
11:05:51 by the public in any premises providing for definitions,
11:05:55 providing for a six-month temporary abatement, providing for
11:05:59 exemptions, providing for severability, providing for
11:06:02 enforcement, and providing for effective date.
11:06:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Capin.
11:06:06 Second by Mr. Suarez.
11:06:08 Discussion by council members?
11:06:09 All in favor?
11:06:10 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:06:12 Thank you all very much.
11:06:12 >>THE CLERK: Second reading of the ordinance will be held
11:06:16 October 18th at 9:30 a.m.
11:06:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We go to item number 73.
11:06:21 >>> Jake Slater, director of neighborhood services, City of
11:06:27 I was asked to come back to council with an up-to-date list
11:06:31 concerning Internet cafes and I have that available now.
11:06:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay, sir.
11:06:40 >>JAKE SLATER: As a summary as of September 24, there's
11:06:54 been five locations that have come to the attention of the
11:06:59 business department with the City of Tampa.
11:07:01 Four are actively open.
11:07:02 One is not open yet.
11:07:07 And I think I said last week that we had six is.
11:07:10 One had actually closed.
11:07:14 Which I was not aware of.
11:07:16 Three have paid their 2013 business taxes.
11:07:19 Two have not.
11:07:20 They have up until October 1st to pay business taxes
11:07:25 before any of the penalties set in.
11:07:29 And these are the ones that we currently have on our
11:07:34 business tax rolls.
11:07:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions?
11:07:45 Mr. Suarez?
11:07:47 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mr. Slater, do you know how big these
11:07:50 locations are, like the first one you have here which is the
11:07:55 sweeps cyber cafe, and the last one which is lucky charms
11:08:00 Internet cafe.
11:08:00 Do you know what the square footage or any information about
11:08:03 the size of the operation that's there?
11:08:05 >> No, I don't, sir.
11:08:06 I don't have that information available.
11:08:08 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Any idea by looking at the building if it's
11:08:10 a strip center that's squeezed and small, and we have got a
11:08:14 lot of in there, or a larger space or anything like that?
11:08:18 >> I don't have that available information available, no.
11:08:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else?
11:08:23 >>LISA MONTELIONE: It's a strip center.
11:08:25 And it's one bay of a strip center.
11:08:30 So like one storefront.
11:08:38 1200, somewhere between 12, 1500.
11:08:46 I have other questions.
11:08:48 I was answering Mr. Suarez.
11:08:50 On whatever date it was, the first time we heard this item
11:08:54 at a workshop, there was a list provided, Internet cafe in
11:09:02 the backup that we were provided under this.
11:09:05 It was a list dated March 9th.
11:09:09 It says the following Internet cafe businesses have been
11:09:11 issued a City of Tampa license.
11:09:14 I'm sorry, business tax receipts.
11:09:17 Not license.
11:09:18 And there were eight of them on the list.
11:09:24 When you spoke, you had six.
11:09:26 And I had asked what the difference was between the six that
11:09:30 you mentioned and the eight that were on this list, and when
11:09:34 I look at the spreadsheet, it's the active only, and there's
11:09:40 one, two, three, four, five on this list.
11:09:44 So I'm a little confused --
11:09:52 >>> I never saw the list back in March.
11:09:54 I haven't received that list.
11:09:55 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Maybe I didn't make my question to you
11:09:59 clear because that's specifically the thing that I wanted to
11:10:01 know was on this list of eight that we were provided in the
11:10:06 workshop, as part of the backup material, have they all paid
11:10:12 their business tax?
11:10:15 And the six that you had, which two were the difference?
11:10:21 Which two were left off?
11:10:22 We were told there were eight as of March 6th that had
11:10:26 issues and then you mentioned six.
11:10:28 >> I mentioned six last week.
11:10:29 And as of last week I believe that four have paid.
11:10:32 But I never saw the list back to March.
11:10:36 I don't know where that came from.
11:10:38 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Maybe you can get back to me.
11:10:40 I don't want to bring you back to council again to answer
11:10:42 the same question.
11:10:43 But maybe you can report just to me what the difference is
11:10:49 between the eight.
11:10:51 And they were Busch Boulevard, Dale Mabry, Fowler Avenue,
11:10:55 another one on Dale Mabry.
11:10:57 Those are both south Dale Mabry locations.
11:10:59 West Columbus.
11:11:01 Another one on Busch.
11:11:03 One on Florida and one on Franklin.
11:11:05 So the list that you just provided us with, the two Busch
11:11:11 locations, the Franklin Street location is there and the
11:11:13 Florida Avenue location is there.
11:11:15 The Columbus and the two south Dale Mabry ones are not
11:11:19 >> If I can get a copy of that.
11:11:23 >>LISA MONTELIONE: You can have this one right now because
11:11:25 I have multiple copies of it.
11:11:27 >> I will be more than happy to come back and contact you.
11:11:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any further by council members on this
11:11:32 item number 73?
11:11:36 I don't want to leave this just dangling.
11:11:38 Are you going to make a report back to us or make it to an
11:11:41 individual council member?
11:11:42 How is it going to --
11:11:45 >> Whatever council wants.
11:11:48 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Like I said he can make it directly to
11:11:51 I don't want to --
11:11:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.
11:11:53 Thank you very much on 73.
11:11:54 We go now to item number 74.
11:12:06 >>THOM SNELLING: Planning development director.
11:12:08 Item 74 is a HUD funding agreement for the trio project at
11:12:16 That's the project that Tampa Housing Authority has been
11:12:18 putting together along with the first building built.
11:12:21 This is the second building to come out of that project.
11:12:24 We keep that going forward.
11:12:26 It's for 141 apartment units, and of that mixture there's
11:12:30 going to be subsidized rental units as well as market rates,
11:12:33 which is very important part, to start to get that blend
11:12:37 affordable units as well as market rates rate units that's
11:12:40 going to help the project really have a long-term
11:12:43 The total project cost is approximately $28 million, and the
11:12:47 city is allocating 2 million of home dollars.
11:12:56 The project -- or the funding is being awarded through an
11:13:01 RFP process, request for proposals.
11:13:04 There are four other projects that were turned in.
11:13:06 There's an evaluation committee.
11:13:08 And they selected this project to be proposed for getting
11:13:13 the funding.
11:13:17 It went through the underwriting, and all the rest of the
11:13:20 process, and is now ready to go forward, and signage was an
11:13:24 agreement between the City of Tampa and the Tampa Housing
11:13:31 The houses that are in there have a 20-year affordability
11:13:34 rate which basically means affordable units within the
11:13:37 project must be offered to cost income qualified individuals
11:13:44 for a 20-year period which again secures the long-term
11:13:47 sustainability for affordable housing in that area along
11:13:49 with the market rate project.
11:13:53 If you have other questions, I will be glad to answer them
11:13:55 for you.
11:13:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Reddick.
11:13:58 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
11:14:00 How do you define affordable housing?
11:14:02 >> It has to be made available for income-qualified
11:14:07 In this case it would be individuals, some of the units are
11:14:09 being offered and being reserved for individuals that make
11:14:15 50% of the area median income.
11:14:18 Another group of units are being held for individuals making
11:14:22 06% of area median income.
11:14:26 And other units are being held for people, individuals
11:14:28 making 80% of the area median income.
11:14:32 Those are HUD standards on how we define affordability for
11:14:36 income eligible individuals.
11:14:37 But --
11:14:40 >> To make it simple, give me an example in dollar amount.
11:14:44 >>THOM SNELLING: What the rents are being?
11:14:47 >> Yes, a dollar amount for affordable housing.
11:14:52 >>THOM SNELLING: I don't know what the rents are going to
11:14:53 be, sir.
11:14:54 I don't know that that has been established yet.
11:14:56 >>FRANK REDDICK: When you say -- there's 2 million of
11:15:00 providing affordable housing units.
11:15:03 >>THOM SNELLING: Correct.
11:15:04 That averages out to about 180,000, 182,000, something in
11:15:10 that neighborhood, which is about what the city has been
11:15:14 supporting for the last decade or so.
11:15:16 Actually a little less than what we paid in the past.
11:15:21 For an affordable unit.
11:15:22 But this is part of an overall complex which has a variety
11:15:25 of amenities, clubhouse and community room, service areas as
11:15:32 well as pools and recreation facilities within the building
11:15:34 as well so not just a free standing unit.
11:15:37 >> So if you look at the residents that are living there, I
11:15:49 doubt any of those re dents will be able to come back and
11:15:51 afford a $180,000 home, is that correct?
11:15:54 >> I don't know if that's what they are going to be paying
11:15:56 is $180,000.
11:15:59 These are rental units, not ownership.
11:16:02 That's just rental units.
11:16:03 That's just the cost.
11:16:05 If that was a rental, the rate would be --
11:16:07 >> I think what he was trying to say, and not trying to put
11:16:10 words in his mouth, but 50% of the total income so if the
11:16:13 total income is 30, 50% would be 15, so that's qualification
11:16:17 of those number of units.
11:16:19 If it's 60% it's 18,000 income.
11:16:22 If it's 80%, that is 24,000 of the 30.
11:16:26 I think that's the mix that you were trying to get without
11:16:29 exactly saying those words.
11:16:32 Whatever the figure is --
11:16:36 >>THOM SNELLING: Whatever a person's income is --
11:16:38 >> Of the median income of the area.
11:16:41 >>THOM SNELLING: Correct.
11:16:42 An individual -- the individuals who are earning that dollar
11:16:47 value, whether it's 24, 30, 50, whatever that happens to be,
11:16:51 those units must be set aside for individuals that are
11:16:53 earning that amount of money to make those units affordable
11:16:56 for those individuals to move into.
11:17:00 And what the exact dollar value or the exact cost of those
11:17:03 rental units would be, I don't know what that number is.
11:17:07 >>MARY MULHERN: So those set-asides are for people at that
11:17:17 level or at a percentage of that level?
11:17:22 >>THOM SNELLING: Those set-asides are for people -- $57,000.
11:17:27 So whatever 80% of 57,000 is --
11:17:29 >> What is the percentage amount?
11:17:31 That's what I'm asking you.
11:17:34 >>THOM SNELLING: I don't understand the question.
11:17:35 >> Not the amount.
11:17:37 What is the percentage of the median income?
11:17:41 >>THOM SNELLING: 80%.
11:17:42 80% of that 57,000, or 50% of that 57,000, or 60% of that
11:17:48 Which means that they have to have a unit that's affordable
11:17:51 for the 50%, for somebody making 27, $28,000 a year.
11:18:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So we all qualify.
11:18:01 Not you.
11:18:02 We do.
11:18:09 >>THOM SNELLING: If you have any other questions.
11:18:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other questions by council members?
11:18:13 >>LISA MONTELIONE: No, I thought Mr. McDonaugh wanted to
11:18:19 say something because he seems to -- or to add to the
11:18:24 >>BOB McDONAUGH: Just the fact that your question was for
11:18:32 people who formerly lived there eligible to live there
11:18:35 again, would they be able to afford it?
11:18:37 The answer is absolutely yes.
11:18:39 And the Housing Authority won't be -- will be given vouchers
11:18:43 which many of those people were given when they relocated
11:18:45 and the median area income is 46, I think, not 57.
11:18:49 So it is a much more affordable number, and a variety of
11:18:54 price forms.
11:18:55 The goal of HUD and our Tampa Housing Authority is to
11:19:00 accommodate all of the people in our community.
11:19:02 And that cost that he was talking about of almost 200,000,
11:19:09 remember, this is a high-rise building.
11:19:11 That is green, which is a little more expensive to build,
11:19:14 and those buildings in the Encore development are using a
11:19:18 chilled water loop, which again is a little more expensive
11:19:21 upfront to develop, but makes it much cheaper in the long
11:19:24 run for people to occupy.
11:19:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
11:19:27 Other questions by council members?
11:19:29 We appreciate it very much on 74.
11:19:35 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you very much.
11:19:35 We go to item 75 through 79.
11:19:38 These are public hearings.
11:19:39 And they are quasi-judicial.
11:19:46 >>THE CLERK: We need to approve item 74.
11:19:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: A motion by Mr. Reddick on 74, seconded
11:19:52 by Mr. Cohen.
11:19:53 All in favor?
11:19:54 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:19:55 75 through 79 need to open those public hearings.
11:19:59 I have a motion by Mrs. Mulhern, seconded by Mrs. Montelione
11:20:03 on 74 through 79.
11:20:04 All in favor of the motion?
11:20:07 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:20:12 These are quasi-judicial.
11:20:14 Those individuals in the audience who are going to speak on
11:20:16 this item must be sworn in.
11:20:18 So please rise and get sworn in.
11:20:20 If you are even thinking of speaking, get sworn in.
11:20:22 (Oath administered by Clerk)
11:20:26 Number 75.
11:20:30 Yes, sir.
11:20:30 >> Land Development Coordination.
11:20:36 Item 76, requesting a continuance to November.
11:20:43 And item number 77 will not be able to be heard today.
11:20:46 A problem with the distance separation requirements.
11:20:49 And it will be continued to the October hearing date.
11:20:57 Number 76, they are requesting to be continued to the
11:21:00 November hearing date.
11:21:02 And item number 77 is requesting to be heard --
11:21:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you for letting us know.
11:21:09 We'll get to them.
11:21:09 >>HARRY COHEN: Move to continue item number 76.
11:21:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: To what date?
11:21:18 >>HARRY COHEN: They said November.
11:21:20 >>> November 15th, is that the --
11:21:23 >> November 15th, yes.
11:21:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item 76.
11:21:28 Anyone in the audience -- these hearings are open.
11:21:31 Anyone in the audience care to speak on item 76 only on the
11:21:36 movement to November 15th?
11:21:39 >> Time certain.
11:21:40 >> 10:30 a.m.
11:21:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 10:30 in the morning.
11:21:45 Yes, sir?
11:21:46 >> (off microphone).
11:21:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: They were all open.
11:21:58 Yes, sir.
11:22:05 76 is now -- anyone in the audience care to speak on 76?
11:22:09 This is only on the continuance to November 15th at the
11:22:12 same time.
11:22:13 When these hearings are held at a certain hour of the day,
11:22:16 let's think forward and say, okay, the same time next time.
11:22:20 It doesn't change.
11:22:21 So it's 10:30.
11:22:24 Anyone in the audience on 76 to be transferred to November
11:22:28 I see no one.
11:22:29 I have a motion to transfer this thing to November 15th
11:22:34 by Ms. Mulhern, seconded by Mr. Suarez.
11:22:37 All in favor?
11:22:39 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:22:42 77 also wanted a continuation to when?
11:22:46 >> October 18th.
11:22:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone in the audience care to speak on
11:22:49 77 only on the factor of the time for the hearing?
11:22:52 That's all we are having.
11:22:55 Hearing right now.
11:22:56 We need a motion for October.
11:22:57 >>HARRY COHEN: So moved to October 18.
11:23:02 >>FRANK REDDICK: Second.
11:23:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seconded by Mr. Reddick.
11:23:07 All in favor?
11:23:08 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:23:10 76 and 77 have been continued.
11:23:13 All right.
11:23:14 We go to 75.
11:23:29 >>> This is case V-12-265, property address is 304 East
11:23:35 Davis Boulevard, unit number 1.
11:23:38 Name is Coastal Grille Incorporated.
11:23:40 The recommendation by the staff and Developmental Review
11:23:45 Committee is finding consistent with the City of Tampa land
11:23:48 development regulations.
11:23:49 The current zoning district is CG commercial general, and
11:23:52 they are proposing alcohol beverage sales for restaurant,
11:23:54 beer, wine and liquor consumption on premises only.
11:24:00 I will show you pictures.
11:24:01 You also have in your stack an e-mail from a local neighbor
11:24:08 in opposition of this application.
11:24:17 This is avenues Davis Boulevard.
11:24:19 This is running towards downtown.
11:24:20 And Tampa General Hospital.
11:24:21 This is Peter O. Knight airport.
11:24:26 This is the location.
11:24:27 This is the building.
11:24:28 The parking area.
11:24:31 This is looking north.
11:24:35 Davis Avenue.
11:24:36 This is the subject location.
11:24:39 Here is the parking lot.
11:24:42 That's to the south.
11:24:45 Looking at the parking lot.
11:24:47 The commercial strip center where it located.
11:24:50 This is the outdoor area.
11:24:57 Same building.
11:24:58 This is looking down the alley that runs behind the complex.
11:25:02 Davis is over here.
11:25:03 This is the alley running behind.
11:25:07 The apartments.
11:25:07 >> I'm sorry, I could ask you a question about the location
11:25:13 of the person who sent the e-mail?
11:25:17 It says across the street, 404 east Davis.
11:25:31 That's the location?
11:25:32 Thank you.
11:25:32 >> They are requesting two waivers to reduce the required
11:25:37 parking from 50 to 36 space and to reduce sis dance
11:25:41 separation of alcohol from 250 feet to 51.
11:25:47 The site is occupied by five tenant retail space with a
11:25:51 commercial strip center.
11:25:52 Subject space is comprised of 2,408 square feet of indoor
11:25:57 area and 506 square feet of outside area for total square
11:26:01 footage of 2,968 square feet.
11:26:04 The subject site also incorporates approximately tenant
11:26:10 spaces including two restaurant and two personal service
11:26:12 sites, using surface parking area for the site located to
11:26:16 the south.
11:26:20 Required parking from 350 to 36 spaces.
11:26:22 There are 12 on-site space that are historically recognized
11:26:26 in the use of the patrons of the employees.
11:26:29 Staff finds it consistent.
11:26:31 You should have in your packet a marked-up site plan with
11:26:35 red lights and red markings.
11:26:38 We are asking basically for a revised site plan.
11:26:41 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police department.
11:26:56 City of Tampa police department has no objection to the
11:26:58 special use 2 request.
11:27:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Petitioner?
11:27:08 >> Good morning.
11:27:10 My name is grace Yang.
11:27:11 I am with the Gray Robinson law firm at 201 North Franklin
11:27:14 Street, suite 2200, Tampa, Florida 33602.
11:27:20 As of next Monday to be in 401 East Jackson Street, Tampa,
11:27:25 We are just moving into the SunTrust building.
11:27:27 So that will be official as of next Monday.
11:27:31 I am happy to be here on behalf of the petitioner, Coastal
11:27:34 Grille, Inc. I am the authorized agent.
11:27:37 I have been sworn.
11:27:38 As he explained this is a request for a restaurant.
11:27:42 This restaurant currently was the Pink Flamingo space on
11:27:46 Davis Island.
11:27:48 You saw some pictures from Mr. Sousa that the Coastal Grille
11:27:54 restaurant is located on the end of an existing shopping
11:27:56 With me today are the husband and wife team and co-owners of
11:27:59 the business, Stan Fasioli and Gina Genoweis. They are in
11:28:06 the audience with me today.
11:28:08 And he has over 28 years of experience in the restaurant
11:28:13 This is their first business on Davis Island, and they are
11:28:17 happy to be there.
11:28:19 This is a restaurant that I passed out menus to all of you.
11:28:24 It is serving breakfast, lunch and dinner.
11:28:27 They just opened about a month and a half ago, I think.
11:28:30 Serving breakfast, lunch and dinner.
11:28:32 And this is a request to allow beer, wine and liquor for
11:28:36 consumption on the premises only.
11:28:38 This is a restaurant right in the commercial heart of Davis
11:28:41 Island in the Davis Island business district.
11:28:46 So this use, we feel, will be very compatible with the
11:28:49 existing neighborhood and the existing district there.
11:28:52 There are a number of restaurants that already exist in that
11:28:56 area but sell alcohol either through an "R" restaurant
11:29:01 zoning or through a bar restaurant zoning.
11:29:03 Those include Estelle a's, 220 east, fountain square, which
11:29:09 just used to be Bailey's, anchor bar, anchor bar being the
11:29:16 closest one.
11:29:17 Anchor bar is located on the opposite side of the shopping
11:29:19 center from my client Coastal Grille.
11:29:25 We have reviewed staff comments about the requested site
11:29:27 plan revisions, and we will be planning to make those
11:29:31 between first and second reading to bring back to you at
11:29:34 second reading.
11:29:38 We also wanted to reiterate again that we are pleased to see
11:29:41 that the report finds the request consistent.
11:29:47 Solid waste, transportation, planning development,
11:29:49 coordination, and you heard from Tampa police that this is
11:29:52 also not receiving any opposition.
11:29:57 I will be happy to answer any questions you may have
11:29:59 concerning the request.
11:30:00 >>MARY MULHERN: I think Joel was kind of a fast talker so I
11:30:06 am trying to follow this.
11:30:07 You are asking, and our site plan shows the entire parking
11:30:13 lot as well as all five units.
11:30:17 What area are you asking for the special use permit?
11:30:25 >> The special use permit --
11:30:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Is this just within the Coastal Grille?
11:30:32 >> Yes.
11:30:33 I am here today just on the Coastal Grille space.
11:30:35 Not for the entire shopping center.
11:30:38 Just the Coastal Grille.
11:30:39 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
11:30:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This Sarasota S public hearing unless
11:30:43 there are other questions or comments by council members.
11:30:46 Anyone in the public care to speak on this item number 75?
11:30:50 Anyone in the audience care to come up on 75?
11:30:59 I see no one.
11:31:00 >> We did have that e-mail from someone who was concerned,
11:31:04 but we are not -- there won't be outdoor.
11:31:07 We are not approving any outdoor space, are we?
11:31:11 >> There is some outdoor space that we are asking for, for
11:31:15 council's approval on.
11:31:16 If you look at the site plan, take another look at my copy
11:31:21 as well.
11:31:24 The clients would like to construct an outdoor deck next to
11:31:28 the restaurant.
11:31:29 So the majority of the square footage is inside the
11:31:33 However, there would be some square footage, approximately
11:31:41 560 square feet adjoining.
11:31:44 The outdoor deck has not been constructed yet but they would
11:31:47 like to have an outdoor deck area.
11:31:49 There are a number of businesses on Davis Island where there
11:31:51 are some outdoor seating areas available, people in the
11:31:55 neighborhood can eat outside when the weather is nice, and
11:31:59 they would like to be able to have that ability.
11:32:02 It's about 560 square feet that we are asking for approval.
11:32:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Approximately 20 by 28.
11:32:08 >> Yes, sir.
11:32:09 >>MARY MULHERN: So what is this -- am I looking at this
11:32:20 This is Davis, right?
11:32:22 >>HARRY COHEN: Davis is here.
11:32:23 >> Okay, I'm sorry.
11:32:26 What is on the west side?
11:32:33 Across from your parking lot.
11:32:34 >> This again is a shopping center that we are talking
11:32:44 And you will see that this is east Davis.
11:32:47 East Davis is the main road where the central business
11:32:49 district is located.
11:32:51 And this is Chesapeake.
11:32:54 This is an alley behind.
11:32:58 It's an alleyway that cars and solid waste uses for one of
11:33:03 those two buildings where you have your finger or the three
11:33:07 buildings across the alley.
11:33:09 The Danube alley?
11:33:16 >> These are residential.
11:33:16 >> So where will the deck be in relation to the residential?
11:33:34 >> About there.
11:33:40 About here where my pen tip is.
11:33:42 >> Did you draw a square?
11:33:45 Because you are just pointing at something.
11:33:47 I can't tell.
11:33:51 Are they cars parked there?
11:33:53 Is that what I am looking at?
11:33:54 >> Yes.
11:33:55 There are cars parked there right now.
11:33:56 This is the, parking lot.
11:33:58 There's the parking lot between the shopping center and an
11:34:01 auto repair shop.
11:34:10 You look at this again.
11:34:11 Here is the parking lot that we are talking about.
11:34:13 This is the space for the Coastal Grille.
11:34:17 There's a door that would come out through an outdoor patio
11:34:25 And these are parking lots.
11:34:27 And then over here is the auto repair.
11:34:29 >> Is there any kind of buffering on the alley?
11:34:32 >> Well, the alley itself provides buffers.
11:34:36 There's the alley here.
11:34:38 And then there are parking spaces here.
11:34:41 And then the residential apartments in the back.
11:34:46 And I'm not aware of anyone from the apartment complexes in
11:34:50 the back who have voiced any concerns to me or to my clients
11:34:55 about it.
11:34:55 >> And just a little bit of concern.
11:34:59 We just heard from one person.
11:35:01 But I do have a little bit of concern, because I'm aware of
11:35:05 the other -- most of the other outdoor dining and alcoholic
11:35:11 beverage places on Davis Boulevard were not oriented toward
11:35:14 where the residential is.
11:35:16 They are usually on the street, or they are on the corner,
11:35:21 right adjacent to them, or across the street is usually just
11:35:30 So there's a little bit of concern about that.
11:35:32 >> Well, we are proposing our hours, they would not be open
11:35:36 later than 11 p.m. any night of the week.
11:35:41 The outdoor patio is for seating so that people can enjoy a
11:35:45 meal when the weather is nice and they can be able to
11:35:48 consume alcohol.
11:35:50 Again, there are other places right there on Davis Island
11:35:53 that have that ability as well.
11:35:56 And I wonder -- but if you look at the site plan we are not
11:36:00 asking to be open any later than 11 p.m. on any given night.
11:36:04 And on most nights they are not even open to 11.
11:36:07 They might be closing down by 10.
11:36:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Could we ask for a restriction on
11:36:14 amplified -- no amplified music at all, and no acoustics
11:36:23 after 10?
11:36:27 Or what time they would not have music, period, but overall
11:36:31 no amplified music outside?
11:36:33 >> If I may, let me ask the owners here and see if they
11:36:38 would be willing to add that additional restriction on.
11:36:49 Yes, we would be willing to add an additional condition on
11:36:53 no amplified music after 10 p.m.
11:36:55 But with the ability to stay open until 11 on Saturday
11:37:00 nights if possible.
11:37:00 >> Let me rephrase.
11:37:02 I want to say no amplified music, period, but no music after
11:37:07 10 p.m.
11:37:11 Let me defer to my fellow council members who negotiated
11:37:14 these things before.
11:37:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, I don't want to take the floor away
11:37:24 until you finished.
11:37:25 Ms. Capin and Mr. Cohen and Ms. Montelione.
11:37:31 >>YVONNE CAPIN: (off microphone) ... the amplification part
11:37:42 of it where the amplified music, and I agree with
11:37:45 Councilwoman Mulhern, no amplified music at all, and no
11:37:51 music after 10 p.m. on the patio.
11:37:59 And anyone that's in here, that will be coming before us
11:38:05 pretty much when you have an outdoor space, I am going to
11:38:07 ask about amplified music.
11:38:09 >> So the request is for no amplified music at all even
11:38:14 during the daytime?
11:38:17 >> Acoustical is fine.
11:38:19 >> Acoustical is fine.
11:38:23 But no amplified music at all.
11:38:25 >> Right.
11:38:25 >> Let me clarify and reconfirm with the client if that is
11:38:36 We are in agreement.
11:38:39 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
11:38:40 Councilwoman Mulhern, I appreciate that.
11:38:42 Thank you.
11:38:42 >>HARRY COHEN: I want to just mention that I agree with
11:38:45 what Councilwoman Capin and Mulhern have just brought up,
11:38:48 and I think that's a good compromise.
11:38:50 >> Thank you for your comments.
11:38:54 Any other questions I may answer?
11:38:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I just want to make sure that we are
11:39:00 only talking about the outdoor patio, that if they want to
11:39:04 have amplified music inside, that that is perfectly okay.
11:39:10 We are only talking about the patio.
11:39:12 And I wouldn't use the statement that he have time amplified
11:39:20 music is asked for outside -- it might get scrutiny by this
11:39:26 body, but I wouldn't necessarily say that it's not going to
11:39:31 be -- we are trying to have a progressive city.
11:39:43 We are trying to have, you know, a welcoming environment.
11:39:47 We want people who are walking down the street to hear music
11:39:50 come from places.
11:39:52 Music is a beautiful, wonderful thing and puts people in a
11:39:56 great state of mind, and it's welcoming, it's not always --
11:40:00 we talk about music here on this panel, and we get e-mails
11:40:03 from people who are concerned.
11:40:05 I understand people's concerns if they are living, you know,
11:40:09 within direct earshot of something that's going to be a
11:40:14 nightclub or something that's going to have a party
11:40:17 atmosphere, but, you know, looking over the menu of the
11:40:20 Coastal Grille, this is your little family breakfast, lunch,
11:40:25 dinner kind of place.
11:40:26 And it's the kind of entrepreneurship and it's the kind of
11:40:31 atmosphere that we want to foster, especially in a walking
11:40:34 community that Davis islands is, and if everyone is looking
11:40:42 at the aerial photographs here, the corridor that this is
11:40:45 located on is a very commercial corridor.
11:40:51 There's multifamily units that may be in close proximity,
11:40:54 but they are all facing the opposite direction.
11:40:56 They are facing the other street.
11:41:02 There's quite a bit of space and buffer between where this
11:41:05 location is going to be, and those multifamily residential
11:41:10 And I just don't want to send the message to any business
11:41:16 owner, anyone who opens a restaurant in our city, that we
11:41:21 are an oppressive group who doesn't like music.
11:41:26 And we really have to think about what we are promoting as a
11:41:31 city, which is again progressive, exciting, walkable, and
11:41:39 have this open for business message, and then people come
11:41:43 here and find out, no, not exactly.
11:41:45 So, you know, I want to be sure that we are only talking
11:41:50 about the is suppression of amplified music outside on the
11:41:57 patio, you can do the amplified music inside, and acoustical
11:42:01 music, or acoustic music is permitted on the patio outside.
11:42:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other council member who has not
11:42:12 Mr. Suarez or Mr. Reddick.
11:42:16 Ms. Capin, please.
11:42:20 >>YVONNE CAPIN: (off microphone) ... goes with the land.
11:42:28 So if we don't put conditions that we need to put on at the
11:42:32 time even though this is a family restaurant, it may not be
11:42:35 in the future.
11:42:37 An outdoor amplification as I stated before was something
11:42:42 that you have neighborhoods.
11:42:45 This is a neighborhood place.
11:42:47 And you have residents nearby.
11:42:50 Therefore, that was the statement.
11:42:52 So it does stay with the land.
11:42:55 So maybe family now, but it could be something else in the
11:42:59 near future.
11:43:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other council members before I go to
11:43:02 the public?
11:43:04 Thank you.
11:43:05 Anyone in the public care to speak on this item number 75?
11:43:09 Please come forward.
11:43:09 >> Pete Johnson, 510 Harrison street.
11:43:16 First of all, a prove this.
11:43:17 I know the location of it.
11:43:19 I think it would be really good.
11:43:21 But most of all, I want to thank City Council for putting
11:43:28 restraints on the amplified music.
11:43:32 We still have a problem with the patio bar down on Dale
11:43:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Please let's keep it with this.
11:43:42 >> But thank you.
11:43:43 I appreciate your restrictions.
11:43:45 >> Any other comments from anyone in the audience regarding
11:43:47 75 and only 75?
11:43:50 I see no one.
11:43:53 Petitioner, any closing comments you care to make?
11:43:57 >>> Thank you, council members, for your comments and for
11:43:59 your interest in this business.
11:44:03 I think as you saw, my clients are fine with the compromise.
11:44:08 Again, with the understanding that this is to address the
11:44:12 outdoor seating.
11:44:14 Area of the restaurant.
11:44:16 Thank you for your consideration.
11:44:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thanks very much.
11:44:19 >>HARRY COHEN: Motion to close.
11:44:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: With Mr. Suarez on a close vote with Mrs.
11:44:26 All in favor?
11:44:27 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:44:28 Ms. Mulhern.
11:44:29 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:44:34 I move an item -- I need to read the ordinance, right?
11:44:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 75.
11:44:47 Do you want to move the ordinance?
11:44:50 >>MARY MULHERN: Sorry.
11:44:50 If someone is more prepared.
11:44:52 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Move an ordinance for first reading
11:44:54 consideration, a special use permit S oh 2 for alcoholic
11:44:57 beverage sales, restaurant, on premises only, and making
11:45:00 lawful the sale of beverages regardless of alcoholic
11:45:02 content, beer, wine and liquor on that certain lot, plot or
11:45:07 tract of land located at 304 East Davis Boulevard, suite E,
11:45:11 Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described in section 2,
11:45:14 that all ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict are
11:45:17 repealed, providing an effective date, and included in the
11:45:21 revision sheet as presented by city staff and including the
11:45:27 restriction on amplified music.
11:45:30 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
11:45:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is first reading.
11:45:34 I have a motion by Mr. Suarez, second by Mr. Cohen.
11:45:36 All in favor of the motion?
11:45:38 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:45:39 >>THE CLERK: Second reading of the ordinance --
11:45:44 >> The ones that we just ---
11:45:47 >>THE CLERK: Second reading of the ordinance will be held
11:45:50 October 18th at 9:30 a.m.
11:45:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 76 and 77 have been moved on to future
11:46:05 A reviewing hearing for a decision by the Variance Review
11:46:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The next two items 78 and 79 are review
11:46:15 hearings and I would like to pass out to council two
11:46:17 sections of the code that are the criteria.
11:46:21 27-273 is the review of a board decision.
11:46:26 In reviewing the board decision, City Council shall apply a
11:46:29 de novo standard of review and shall not be limited in its
11:46:32 review to that information, documentation or evidence upon
11:46:35 which the board bases its determination.
11:46:38 City Council shall follow all applicable ordinances in
11:46:42 arriving at a decision and may receive new evidence.
11:46:45 City Council after reviewing the decision of the board and
11:46:47 hearing evidence and testimony may either affirm the board's
11:46:51 decision, may remand the matter back to the board for
11:46:54 further proceedings with directions on how the board failed
11:46:57 to comply with the standard of the code, or may overturn the
11:47:01 decision of the board.
11:47:04 On the second page is the application of the variance power
11:47:09 section 17.5-74 where you have the five HUD Chip criteria
11:47:17 with which you are familiar.
11:47:18 Council, this item number 78 is unusual.
11:47:21 It happens rarely.
11:47:23 But this is one of those instances where the original
11:47:26 applicant is not the person who is seeking review.
11:47:30 So you will hear the outline of the case but what you have
11:47:39 here are you are having to hear the --
11:47:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have had those before.
11:47:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Okay, fine.
11:47:45 I just wanted to bring that to your attention.
11:47:47 It's one of those situations.
11:47:48 Thank you.
11:47:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, sir.
11:47:55 >>ERIC COTTON: Land Development Coordination.
11:47:56 This is review of 3014 west Villa Rosa park.
11:48:05 The applicant for the Variance Review Board case was Stephen
11:48:08 What the issue is, the applicant is seeking relief from
11:48:08 section 27-77 table 4-2 which is the setback table, and in
11:48:14 order to reduce the required rear yard from 20 feet to 1.9
11:48:20 feet in the rear and from 7 feet to 1.9-foot on the side.
11:48:25 There is an existing garage there.
11:48:26 The applicant was seeking to go up a second story.
11:48:29 They went to the second story on the property which is
11:48:34 legally nonconforming garage, to add a second story.
11:48:38 The board heard the case, voted to approve it, and the
11:48:41 neighbor has chosen to appeal that decision.
11:48:44 If you have any questions I would be glad to answer.
11:48:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions at this time?
11:48:49 Thank you.
11:48:49 >> Susan Johnson Velez, 607 west Bay Street, Tampa 363606
11:49:27 appearing on behalf of Mr. Greg Traux, Villa Rosa park and
11:49:37 immediately adjacent to the subject property for this
11:49:39 variance request.
11:49:40 We appeared at the VRB hearing on June 12th, and you all are
11:49:43 familiar with these public hearing processes.
11:49:45 The applicant gets a certain amount of time to present, then
11:49:48 gets a certain amount of time for rebuttal and those who
11:49:51 would like to speak that are not the applicant have three
11:49:53 minutes to present their case.
11:49:54 As you will see here we have quite a few issues that we had
11:49:57 that we just didn't feel we had the opportunity to fully
11:50:00 address, and flush out with the VRB.
11:50:04 Mr. Traux, or Greg, as you will see, is an aggrieved party
11:50:08 under the code so he is appealing, or asking for your review
11:50:11 of this approval.
11:50:14 Now, the city code as your attorney has gone over with you
11:50:18 authorizes the VRB and you all standing in the VRB shoes
11:50:21 this morning to grant a variance only where it expressly
11:50:24 finds that the applicant has demonstrated unnecessary
11:50:26 hardship or practical difficult -- difficulty and that's an
11:50:33 issue I will address in more detail in a minute and also the
11:50:36 applicant must show the public health, safety and welfare of
11:50:40 the general public and that's protected.
11:50:42 So just for purposes of orienting you, and to kind of walk
11:50:47 you through the handout that I have provided for you, but
11:50:50 the first, there's some legal standards that I included --
11:51:03 this is the property appraise map.
11:51:05 This is my client's property in the red hashmark.
11:51:07 And the subject property of the variance is outlined in
11:51:14 This is a color coded site plan that I have, kind of colored
11:51:24 so you can kind of see the improvements a little better.
11:51:26 The property was originally developed in 1987 with two-story
11:51:29 home, pool, and the detached garage that's the subject of
11:51:33 the variance request.
11:51:36 As your staff told you, or staff told you, the garage was
11:51:40 built according to a code that at that time required a
11:51:44 two-foot side yard set back and two-foot rear yard setback.
11:51:49 As you can see on the survey it's actually 1.9 feet from the
11:51:52 side and from the rear.
11:51:53 So as constructed, and that happened.
11:51:58 We understand that.
11:51:59 Those setbacks, the rear and side were actually increased in
11:52:02 later code to three feet so already it's a nonconform use
11:52:05 closer to the property line than what would be allowed
11:52:07 today, I want to be clear that Greg is not complaining about
11:52:12 or objecting to the garage as it sits today.
11:52:14 He has no problem with it continuing, in its one story
11:52:19 condition as and where it sits today.
11:52:20 But what he does object to is this request to add roughly
11:52:24 six feet to it where it's sitting today, less than two feet
11:52:28 off of his side yard.
11:52:41 All these in your packet but this is the house we are
11:52:43 talking about 3014.
11:52:45 This is the pool.
11:52:45 This is the garage.
11:52:46 This is Greg's property.
11:52:50 This area here is a rear patio area that he has.
11:52:54 It's an open patio area.
11:52:55 And so you can see that the garage is hidden by a little bit
11:53:03 of landscaping.
11:53:05 And also obscured is a wall that comes straight out from
11:53:08 this garage.
11:53:13 The next item is the handout, this is a photo that was
11:53:21 Well, you can see it in your handout.
11:53:23 But this is a roof line.
11:53:24 If you look at the one in the foreground that's Greg's porch
11:53:28 Then the garage next door.
11:53:30 And then if you look, the farthest away roof that you can
11:53:33 see with the white cap on it is the roof of the property
11:53:37 that's behind 3014.
11:53:46 The next photo is a photo taken from Greg's back patio area.
11:53:51 You can see that it's open and this kind of -- this is
11:53:54 actually the garage, bus that's the view that he has of it
11:53:57 right now as it exists in the one-story space.
11:54:04 This is actually a view from his rear yard.
11:54:06 This is actually the side of the garage.
11:54:07 There's no walls as you can see.
11:54:09 There's some landscaping there.
11:54:12 This is a street view of the garage.
11:54:16 The next photo is how the garage appears from Greg's yard
11:54:19 right now.
11:54:20 You can see the roof line that actually extends above some
11:54:22 of the vegetation that's been put in to try to buffer that.
11:54:29 And this is an imposition but this is what could happen,
11:54:34 what the view could be when this second story addition is
11:54:40 So in order to grant a variance, you all have to look at
11:54:43 whether the applicant has shown a hardship, and whether or
11:54:47 not the public health, safety and welfare is protected.
11:54:50 What does it mean when I say hard ship?
11:54:53 Well Florida, law has flushed out that, in order to show a
11:54:56 hardship, the applicant has oh to show some exceptional and
11:54:59 unique hardship that's unique to their parcel of property
11:55:02 and not shared by property owners in the area.
11:55:07 The other thing they have to show is that the hardship is
11:55:11 not self-created.
11:55:13 Your code itself and the criteria number 2 says practical
11:55:18 difficult or self-created hardship is not going to justify a
11:55:21 variance so you are not authorized to grant a variance if
11:55:23 the hardship is self-created.
11:55:25 And this is because, again, Florida law, and it's on that
11:55:31 one sheet in the handout that I passed out to you, but
11:55:33 Florida courts held that a property owner in the vicinity of
11:55:35 property where variance has the right to rely on existing
11:55:39 building conditions and rely -- right to rely on their
11:55:43 continuance unless someone can show that they are entitled
11:55:45 to a variance.
11:55:47 And Greg is objecting to this application because we do not
11:55:49 feel that it shows a hardship, and that it will negatively
11:55:54 impact his property.
11:55:58 Your code provides six different criteria to look at in
11:56:02 evaluating applications.
11:56:04 And I am going to kind of lump them together just for
11:56:07 purposes of kind of going through and examining the
11:56:09 responses that the applicant gave in this case.
11:56:11 Again, the first two relate to the hardship.
11:56:14 Whether there is a hardship, whether or not the hardship was
11:56:18 So just taking a quick look and kind of paraphrasing what
11:56:21 the applicant said in response to that, they said first of
11:56:23 all, we have a small lot.
11:56:26 We have improvements that cover a majority of the lots, and
11:56:29 the improvements are configured in such a way that we can't
11:56:32 expand on what's there right now without this area, and we
11:56:36 can't relocate anything that's on the property, any of the
11:56:39 improvements that have been constructed because of the way
11:56:41 the improvements are configured.
11:56:43 And there are trees, a lot.
11:56:46 So just taking a look at those, they state the lot is small.
11:56:51 It's 9,225-foot square foot lot.
11:56:56 In comparison, and I think you can see pretty clearly, in
11:57:00 this graphic that I showed you initially, this is the 9,225
11:57:03 square foot lot.
11:57:04 In comparison, Greg's lot is 7,920 square feet.
11:57:09 So it's actually larger in comparison to his, by about 1200
11:57:14 square feet.
11:57:15 All of the conditions that are listed in the application,
11:57:16 the home, the pool, the garage, actually existed when the
11:57:20 applicants bought the property.
11:57:22 And Florida law it's clear, the case in 1959, Owen versus
11:57:27 city of Miami case, that someone who purchases a piece of
11:57:29 property with improvements in their present configurations,
11:57:33 they have full knowledge of what the zoning code allows,
11:57:36 cannot come in later and say this is now a hardship to me
11:57:39 because I can't use my property appropriately.
11:57:43 So we have these applicants who bought their property in
11:57:45 June of 2006.
11:57:46 Again, the house, the garage, the pool, in their present
11:57:51 The trees existed in their present configuration.
11:57:54 The limitations on the rear and side yard setbacks are
11:57:57 already set at three feet.
11:57:59 So it's not a case where new regulation was imposed, some
11:58:03 new natural feature revealed themselves after they bought
11:58:07 the property.
11:58:08 On the contrary they had full knowledge of where the
11:58:10 improvements were.
11:58:11 In fact, they actually constructed more additional
11:58:19 If you look, again on this graphic that's in your handout,
11:58:24 the items in yellow, the garage, the pool, the two-story
11:58:27 home, were original items on the property.
11:58:32 Added to the property were brick pavers, and also this 14 by
11:58:36 26-foot is highlighted in pink there on the back of the
11:58:41 But it's a covered addition that these people added to the
11:58:44 back of the house I believe two years ago in 2010.
11:58:47 So this roughly amounts to 3647 square feet of added space.
11:58:52 We believe that if they really needed extra square footage
11:58:56 and living space for guests and family members to come and
11:58:58 visit that they certainly could have added that living space
11:59:01 on at the time.
11:59:03 They chose not to do that.
11:59:05 And that's certainly their prerogative.
11:59:06 But they shouldn't be allowed to come here now and seek a
11:59:11 variance from you to add even more additional square feet
11:59:15 because they close to make this a screened-in area instead
11:59:17 of living space that they have now determined that they
11:59:22 We don't feel that the option is precluded to them to add
11:59:25 onto that space or to impose that space to make the living
11:59:29 space that they need, or even add a second story if that's
11:59:31 what they decide to do.
11:59:34 We feel that that's a more appropriate solution that would
11:59:37 not require a variance.
11:59:38 It would not be an imposing structure or in any way impact
11:59:42 on Greg's property at all, and it would not impact any of
11:59:45 the trees on the property.
11:59:50 In fact, you can see one of the last in a series of photos
11:59:53 that I submitted of the property next door, 3016 west Villa
11:59:58 Rosa park, added on this white area to the back of their
12:00:01 home in order to add extra living space.
12:00:12 Let me back up.
12:00:13 So we believe that clearly there's no hardship that exists
12:00:16 on this property that wasn't self-created.
12:00:18 So they did not meet that criteria.
12:00:23 Then I want to address criteria 3 and 4 together because it
12:00:27 addresses substantial Internet interference with properties
12:00:29 that might be affected by the variance.
12:00:31 What they have said in response to that is that as the
12:00:34 neighbors were notified, we didn't get any objections.
12:00:37 Other properties have garage apartments in similar
12:00:39 It would be consistent with the development pattern in the
12:00:43 And if we don't have this variance we just won't be able to
12:00:46 add onto the property.
12:00:50 Greg has had several brief conversations with Mr. Myrrh real
12:00:54 Unfortunately they haven't been very communicative about
12:00:57 their plans or appear to take into consideration those
12:01:02 concerns and objections.
12:01:04 They never actually come and see what this might look like
12:01:07 or what it looks like from Greg's side of the property.
12:01:10 So the statement that it doesn't interfere is kind of a
12:01:15 blanket statement without any kind of substantiation.
12:01:18 We actually submitted as part of your packet, there's a
12:01:20 letter from John Saunders, a state certified real estate
12:01:23 appraiser in which he outlines the potential negative impact
12:01:27 on property values of the neighboring property owner based
12:01:30 on the proposed addition.
12:01:34 And it may be true that there are other properties in the
12:01:36 area that have similar structures, but really don't know
12:01:39 when those were built.
12:01:40 This is a very old established neighborhood.
12:01:43 A lot of those might have -- were approved prior to these
12:01:48 current codes.
12:01:49 But the very best evidence that this is not a development
12:01:51 pattern that you would like to perpetuate is in the code
12:01:54 itself, because for structures, as I have explained to you,
12:01:58 more than a three foot side yard and three-foot rear yard
12:02:02 are required.
12:02:02 You are required 20-foot rear yard, seven foot side yard.
12:02:07 So you have determined very wisely that that's what is
12:02:10 required for structures of this height.
12:02:17 Greg himself has a two-story structure on his property in
12:02:22 the back southeast corner that dates back to the 1940s.
12:02:24 So it may -- it may be before that, but I long before the
12:02:28 zoning codes were in place.
12:02:30 So that might have been a development pattern that existed
12:02:32 in the past, but it's not again something that you all want
12:02:35 to perpetuate.
12:02:37 The fifth and sixth criteria I will go over briefly.
12:02:40 The variance will result in substantial injustice being
12:02:46 We certainly don't believe that it would further the intent
12:02:47 of the code sections that require these greater setbacks for
12:02:51 structures, this large.
12:02:53 And also we don't believe that substantial justice would be
12:02:56 done by allowing a property owner to max out square footage
12:02:59 that could be built within the required setbacks and then
12:03:01 claim hardship based on conditions they either knew existed
12:03:05 or which they themselves created.
12:03:06 So this hardship again on number 6, finally, the claimed
12:03:10 hardship has to amount to more than a mere inconvenience and
12:03:14 the basis here is that we would like to have our friends and
12:03:17 family members are able to stay with us on our property, and
12:03:20 that's the reason we are asking for this request.
12:03:22 Well, it also speaks to the variance if it's not granted
12:03:27 will result in inability to use the property.
12:03:30 Clearly that's not the case.
12:03:31 They are using it as their residence now.
12:03:34 But in conformity with the code.
12:03:37 And so the reasons that are given, ability to have family
12:03:39 members and friends stay are personal to the applicant, and
12:03:42 that again cannot justify the granting of a variance.
12:03:45 We do have a series of letters in the packet that I gave
12:03:49 I am going to hand out the originals but they are from folks
12:03:52 that live on Villa Rosa park, 2013 west Villa Rosa park.
12:03:58 We have Mr. Russell Alba, Kenneth Jones, 3011 west Villa
12:04:03 Rosa park, Allison Wyatt, 3100, Belinda, 3106 Villa Rosa
12:04:12 park, and also a graphic, construction plans we pulled just
12:04:16 approved at 3021 back in June of 2012 it does show the
12:04:21 three-foot setback, and that's the pattern that's actually
12:04:24 being established with new construction in the area.
12:04:26 I would like to submit for the record the DVD of the VRB
12:04:31 hearing and also the original letters that I presented.
12:04:33 (Bell sounds)
12:04:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.
12:04:35 Time is up.
12:04:37 Council members? Mrs. Mulhern?
12:04:41 >>MARY MULHERN: I just have a couple of questions, probably
12:04:42 in all of this backup we have, but I can't find it.
12:04:46 What is the square footage of the house.
12:04:52 >> The subject parcel?
12:04:53 3200 square feet, I believe, based on the property
12:04:55 appraiser's record.
12:04:57 >> For just the house?
12:04:59 >> The house and --
12:05:00 >> And the garage?
12:05:01 >> It's in the first --
12:05:20 >> So according to the property appraiser's record -- and I
12:05:36 >>MARY MULHERN: Somebody can look it up and let us know.
12:05:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I need council to give me 30 minutes and
12:05:41 then we'll try to finish way before that.
12:05:44 I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione, second by Mr. Reddick on
12:05:47 a close vote with Mrs. Mulhern.
12:05:48 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
12:05:51 The ayes have it unanimously.
12:05:52 >>> I would like to submit these items for the record.
12:06:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
12:06:03 We can wait till somebody find it.
12:06:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions by council members at this
12:06:09 We are waiting on this to come back.
12:06:20 I need to run the meeting and I think I know what I am
12:06:22 Maybe not but I think I do. The public always will be heard
12:06:25 in public hearings.
12:06:26 I mean, I don't know what it is.
12:06:29 So public please, anyone in the public care to speak on this
12:06:32 hearing, item number 78, please come forward one at a time.
12:06:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, if I may.
12:06:38 Just to inform you, this is the original applicant, and
12:06:42 therefore this is the property.
12:06:44 He has the property right in question so he's going to be
12:06:48 getting 15 minutes as well.
12:06:49 >> Got it.
12:06:50 >> My name is Stephen Thompson with the law firm Thompson
12:06:55 representing the Murillos.
12:06:57 How much time?
12:06:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 15 minutes.
12:06:59 >> I do appreciate that.
12:07:00 Again, the Murillos are planning to build a mother-in-law
12:07:08 The variance request has previously heard by your Variance
12:07:11 Review Board, it was approved, and Mr. Murillo's neighbor
12:07:14 has now appealed that approval.
12:07:16 Let me start from the beginning.
12:07:17 I think from the very beginning the Murillos have been very
12:07:20 careful in preparing this proposed plan.
12:07:23 We hired a builder.
12:07:25 And the one thing we told the builder, you really need to
12:07:30 look at the neighborhood, take a look at what's out there
12:07:32 because we want to build something consistent and compatible
12:07:35 with the neighborhood, obviously our neighbors.
12:07:37 They realize -- we realize we are working in an older
12:07:41 And again needed to be consistent and compatible with the
12:07:44 development pattern in that area.
12:07:47 We did note there is a developer, the builder noted there's
12:07:50 an awful lot of other houses in the neighborhood with
12:07:54 attached garages.
12:07:55 Many of them had living units on top of those garages.
12:07:59 Both of our neighbors to the east and the west also had
12:08:04 attached garages.
12:08:05 The gentleman who filed the appeal also has living unit on
12:08:08 top of his, certainly the 22 feet that we are looking for.
12:08:14 After we did that, we analyzed the zoning codes really to
12:08:18 determine how best to proceed with this request.
12:08:22 After reviewing this information, our builder basically told
12:08:26 us that the only practical way to proceed with an addition
12:08:29 was really to build onto the garage.
12:08:32 And when the garage was grandfathered, to go up, we would
12:08:35 have to meet the setback requirement, or seek a variance.
12:08:39 So ba we are doing is we are adding approximately six feet
12:08:44 in height to that garage which would take it to 22 feet, and
12:08:47 adding only about 300 square feet of living area.
12:08:55 We had a professional plan developed that plan, and based
12:09:00 upon the various criteria, we believe request meets the
12:09:08 criteria. Again as you heard before, I have five criteria
12:09:13 for a variance, and I want to also go through that variance
12:09:18 criteria. You have certain standards.
12:09:19 The first one is that the alleged hardship or practical
12:09:22 difficulties are unique and singular with respect to the
12:09:24 property or with respect to a structure or building and are
12:09:30 not in common with other buildings similarly located.
12:09:36 In the instant case what we are talking about is a hardship
12:09:39 for practical difficulty.
12:09:41 And again, I think that's the determination that this board
12:09:45 has got to make, is what is the practical difficulty?
12:09:48 And again, that practical difficulty is certainly the trees
12:09:53 that are on this property.
12:09:57 You know, with the oak trees that are on this property,
12:10:00 there is no other location where these additions can be
12:10:05 Your natural resources section where they reviewed this
12:10:07 request basically said that the trees do preclude the
12:10:12 placement of an addition elsewhere on the property.
12:10:15 In addition, our builder, who is a professional, and I have
12:10:21 a letter from him that I will read in the into the, but
12:10:24 there is no other location on this property for this
12:10:29 The second criterion is the hardship of difficulty do not
12:10:34 result from the actions of the applicant of self-created
12:10:36 hardship of practical difficulty shall not justify variance.
12:10:40 Disagree with the attorney for the neighbor.
12:10:42 Again, we are not responsible for the fact that there are
12:10:47 many trees on this property which prevent them from adding
12:10:52 to the house elsewhere.
12:10:54 Consequently, this is not self-created.
12:10:58 It's the result of the fact also that the lot is relatively
12:11:04 And again the oak trees do prevent the addition elsewhere.
12:11:08 There is professional evidence that this addition cannot be
12:11:12 added elsewhere to the house or the lot.
12:11:16 Your third criteria. If a variance is granted, it will not
12:11:19 substantially interfere or injury the health, safety or
12:11:23 welfare by the allowance of the variance.
12:11:26 Again, prior to initiating this process, we canvassed the
12:11:30 There are many similar structures in the neighborhood.
12:11:33 Even our neighbor again who is objecting to this request has
12:11:36 a separate garage with a living unit on the second floor.
12:11:41 Clearly, these do not endanger the health, safety or welfare
12:11:46 of the community.
12:11:50 In addition, at the Variance Review Board, we agree to a
12:11:54 condition that was requested by the variance board that we
12:11:58 not place a window on the west side, which would be looking
12:12:03 over onto the neighbor who has objected to this request.
12:12:08 And again, we also indicated that we are not going to be
12:12:11 changing the footprint of the existing structure.
12:12:18 The fourth criteria, the variance is in harmony and servings
12:12:23 the chapter adopted, Tampa comprehensive plan.
12:12:26 Again, similar structures.
12:12:29 And we believe that it's compatible, consistent with the
12:12:33 The garages are all located on the side yard, basically in
12:12:37 the same location as the Murillo's.
12:12:42 This is a residential classification for zoning the
12:12:45 property, certainly encourage this type of use for family
12:12:49 Finally, the staff has not objected to this request.
12:12:52 The staff has not said that this request is either
12:12:55 inconsistent with the city's zoning or comprehensive plan.
12:13:03 We believe that this find it consistent with the zoning code
12:13:06 and the comprehensive plan.
12:13:09 The final criteria is allowing the variance to result in
12:13:12 substantial justice be done considering both public benefits
12:13:17 to be secured by this chapter and the individual hardship
12:13:21 will suffer through the failure of the board to create a
12:13:25 Again, this request is consistent with the city zoning code,
12:13:30 consistent with the comprehensive plan.
12:13:33 We believe it's consistent with the public benefits in a
12:13:37 residential area allowing for families to be located on the
12:13:44 property again when they visit.
12:13:46 But we believe that we have met the city's criteria for
12:13:52 There are practical difficulties in building this addition
12:13:55 on any other portion of the lot.
12:13:57 The staff has agreed, location of trees, placement of the
12:14:01 addition anywhere else on this lot.
12:14:04 Again, it's our position the Murillos did not create this
12:14:08 practical difficulty.
12:14:10 It's resulted from the size of the lot and the location of
12:14:11 the trees.
12:14:12 Finally, I would like to enter into the record a letter from
12:14:18 our builder and read it.
12:14:19 Again, he's a professional with a lot of experience with the
12:14:23 This is from David sign Berg, a general contractor.
12:14:30 My company is a custom home builder with 23 years of
12:14:33 experience in residential construction in the City of Tampa
12:14:35 and Hillsborough County.
12:14:37 I was contracted by the mirror really oh's to build an
12:14:40 addition to their home at 3014 west Villa Rosa park in the
12:14:44 City of Tampa.
12:14:45 I reviewed the property and my professional opinion the only
12:14:48 location on this property for the addition of a room is
12:14:51 above the existing garage structure.
12:14:54 I have also reviewed the neighborhood and their existing
12:14:57 home and it is our intention to design this addition such
12:15:02 that it complements their home and is consistent with other
12:15:05 detached two-story garages in the neighborhood.
12:15:08 I have provided sketches to the proposed addition to the
12:15:11 It's my understanding those sketches were submitted to the
12:15:14 Variance Review Board and City Council.
12:15:16 Because of the location of the trees and the Murillos
12:15:19 property and the existing house, there is no on the location
12:15:21 on this property for this.
12:15:24 Please let me know if you have any questions or would like
12:15:26 any additional information.
12:15:27 Best regard, Mayfair Quality Builders, Dave Steinberg.
12:15:33 The staff report that was prepared states that the planning
12:15:37 division, resources section, does not object to this request
12:15:42 for variance.
12:15:43 Your Variance Review Board, the board that you put in power
12:15:47 to hear variances and is the most experienced as far as
12:15:51 determining variance criteria and hardship, has made a
12:15:56 determination that this request met the criteria for
12:16:01 variance and voted to approve this variance with certain
12:16:04 They were sensitive to the neighbors and said, we approve it
12:16:08 as long as it's limited to the 22 feet and as long as you
12:16:10 don't put a window on the west side.
12:16:13 We accepted those.
12:16:14 So again.
12:16:20 I know the CD was submitted with review of the council, a
12:16:27 couple of the comments from your Variance Review Board.
12:16:33 "the situation was there before the current owner purchased.
12:16:36 Within the pattern of development in this neighborhood,
12:16:39 that's been an existing structure, the value in protecting
12:16:45 >> RANDY BARON: Petitioner is going out of his way to
12:16:50 accommodate neighbors by limiting highlight of construction
12:16:52 to more than 22 feet and will not have windows facing the
12:16:56 There is a pattern of two-story detached garages in this
12:17:01 The neighbor who is objecting has similar structure on his
12:17:05 Finally, from Gary Brown: Commend design of addition is
12:17:12 architecturally sensitive to neighbors.
12:17:17 Again, in conclusion, your staff has not objected to this
12:17:25 Resources has given you the opinion that to protect those
12:17:28 trees this is the only location for that addition.
12:17:31 The Variance Review Board, that very board that you
12:17:34 established to review variances and make determinations on
12:17:39 hardship criteria made the opinion that we met the
12:17:44 hardships, issued the variance with those conditions.
12:17:48 We still accept those conditions.
12:17:50 We would respectfully request, based upon the evidence that
12:17:57 this council approves this request as condition and
12:18:00 recommend it for approval by the Variance Review Board.
12:18:05 Mr. Murillo is here.
12:18:06 He has some photographs that he would like to enter into the
12:18:09 >> Good afternoon.
12:18:13 I'm John Murillo. I have been sworn and I am the property
12:18:16 owner at 3014 west Villa Rosa park.
12:18:21 I would like to quickly address a couple of things that Mr.
12:18:23 Thompson has not addressed that were raised by petitioner.
12:18:26 First of all, he mentioned a structure that was built in the
12:18:31 back of the house.
12:18:32 As the builder noted, as the staff of the Variance Review
12:18:35 Board floated who visited the property, where that lanai was
12:18:41 placed, it was not possible to build an additional room
12:18:43 because of the proximity between the house and the pool.
12:18:45 The pool cannot support a close structure and certainly not
12:18:50 a second floor next to the pool wall.
12:18:52 So the lanai obviously is an open structure with a roof, and
12:18:57 that's it.
12:18:58 There's not enough weight on that structure to impact the
12:19:00 pool wall.
12:19:01 Anything else would create a problem.
12:19:06 The second thing, cooperation, I think petitioner's agent
12:19:09 said something about the fact I have not tried to cooperate
12:19:11 with my neighbor.
12:19:12 I respectfully disagree.
12:19:13 I have spoken to my neighbor, and I specifically asked when
12:19:17 he told me he objected, I asked is there anything I can do
12:19:20 to change your mind?
12:19:21 Can I change the design?
12:19:23 Can I do anything to accommodate you?
12:19:26 And he said no.
12:19:28 So that I think is not accurate.
12:19:33 With respect to privacy I think we can handle that by
12:19:35 showing a few photographs.
12:19:38 This is actually a view of my neighbor's house from inside
12:19:40 my house.
12:19:41 My neighbor has a three-story, approximately 4300 square
12:19:45 foot home that essentially comes up all the way to my
12:19:48 property line.
12:19:49 There's a driveway in between that house and my house.
12:19:52 But this is a view from my kitchen or my dining room.
12:20:00 This is the view of the garage.
12:20:01 Again, my neighbor's home.
12:20:02 This is my driveway.
12:20:04 My home that I took the picture from on the right side.
12:20:07 My neighbor's home is on the left side.
12:20:09 Again it's a three story, and it's right on top of my
12:20:14 This is from my backyard.
12:20:16 Again, he has elected to build had structure all the way up
12:20:21 to the side of his property line so that overlooks my own
12:20:31 This is just to give an example of the neighborhood.
12:20:33 This is my backyard.
12:20:34 The pool, that's from inside the lanai structure.
12:20:38 You can see there's not a lot of room back there to build.
12:20:41 And that's my neighbor behind me.
12:20:44 Again, this is obviously an urban setting so all the homes
12:20:47 are practically on top of each other, and consistent with
12:20:50 the neighborhood, and everyone can see into each other's
12:20:57 This is my other neighbor.
12:20:58 This is the addition that they showed as well.
12:21:02 A view from inside my yard.
12:21:05 Again my neighbor can see inside the yard because of the
12:21:10 construction of fairly large homes relative to the lot.
12:21:15 Five minutes?
12:21:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No, I am not going to give you five
12:21:17 >> Can we finish these up?
12:21:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You can finish and that's it.
12:21:21 Like the Supreme Court case, America versus somebody.
12:21:28 I understand.
12:21:28 I am not trying to debate you.
12:21:30 I got enough evidence.
12:21:31 I think this council is smart enough that there's evidence
12:21:34 on both sides was given.
12:21:36 You both have got to understand that. I'm not trying to be
12:21:37 rude or anything else.
12:21:37 >> I understand that.
12:21:42 If I can run through a couple of photographs to give you an
12:21:44 idea of the street.
12:21:49 This is a neighbor down the street.
12:21:50 This is an attached garage, a two-story structure up to the
12:21:53 property line.
12:22:01 Again, the homes, large homes or relatively small lots.
12:22:05 There's very little privacy.
12:22:07 Everyone is very close to each other.
12:22:08 And most of the homes are two or three stories and see into
12:22:12 each other's lots.
12:22:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: One last one.
12:22:15 One last photo.
12:22:18 We have seen enough photographs.
12:22:19 I think I'm Kodak.
12:22:20 >> This is a two-story attached garage down the street.
12:22:25 This attached garage built all the way to the back of that
12:22:28 lot and obviously can oversee the lot.
12:22:30 And this is consistent with the street.
12:22:33 >> The pattern of the neighborhood.
12:22:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
12:22:35 I appreciate it very much and I apologize but I have got to
12:22:38 get this thing moving.
12:22:44 Petitioner has five minutes, the original to rebuttal
12:22:46 whatever statement was made here, closing statement on your
12:22:49 behalf if you would like to make it.
12:22:51 You have five minutes for that.
12:22:52 >>> I apologize, Mr. Chairman.
12:22:57 I do get rebuttal after everyone has spoken?
12:23:00 >> Rebuttal between you and the petitioner and then I go to
12:23:03 the public.
12:23:03 >> Okay.
12:23:06 To address their concerns, and I will be very brief.
12:23:09 First of all, they mentioned trees and the trees on the
12:23:12 property are what's causing the issue.
12:23:14 And we think this picture and the site plan will negate
12:23:19 This actually shows the trees are actually in the front
12:23:21 yard, the significant trees are actually in the front yard
12:23:23 and I'll submit that for the record.
12:23:25 Also, if you look at the boundary survey that you have in
12:23:28 your packet, certainly before you approach any trees, I
12:23:31 believe there's a tree as shown in the aerial photograph
12:23:34 that's in the southwestern corner of the lot but before you
12:23:38 run into that you run into brick paving, you run into the
12:23:41 pool, and that's really all the improvement and things that
12:23:46 exist on the property when these property owners bought it
12:23:48 which precludes development.
12:23:49 We suggested they enclose the lanai.
12:23:52 They have said it won't support the structure because of its
12:23:55 proximity to the pool.
12:23:56 Again that's not a natural condition.
12:23:58 That's an improvement that was built onto the property.
12:24:00 And that's in fact what's constraining, and not any natural
12:24:04 Those were all conditions that existed on the property when
12:24:06 they bought the property, and that they can't complain about
12:24:10 They can't complain about it.
12:24:11 And they said this is the only practical place where we can
12:24:13 put an addition at some point, you have to own up to the
12:24:17 fact, accept the fact that maybe there just can't be any
12:24:20 other structures or any more square footage that's put on
12:24:23 this piece of property.
12:24:24 We have maxed it out.
12:24:27 That's the situation we have on this piece of property.
12:24:30 It's been built out to its maximum potential without showing
12:24:32 a hardship which they have not done in this case.
12:24:35 All the hardship that they talked about are self-created
12:24:39 That will not justify a variance.
12:24:41 I believe the VRB, if you care to view it, will show that
12:24:47 the VRB did not address the hardship criteria. They simply
12:24:51 did not address the hardship criteria.
12:24:53 The applicant's representative has stated that they made a
12:24:55 finding that it met the criteria. I think the DVD speaks
12:24:59 for itself and it will show that they did not make a finding
12:25:01 in that respect.
12:25:02 And again, with all the case law that we provided to you, we
12:25:06 submit to you that under Florida law, under your code
12:25:09 without making that finding, the VRB was not authorized to
12:25:12 grant and approve this variance.
12:25:17 They said that they are not changing the footprint, and they
12:25:20 read a couple of comments about not changing the footprint,
12:25:23 how the VRB made note of that, that this is a situation that
12:25:26 existed when Greg bought his property.
12:25:28 It's not what existed when he bought the property.
12:25:30 What existed is the garage, one-story as it sits today,
12:25:34 closer than what would be allowed today under the code, and
12:25:37 certainly for a structure this large, much closer, 18 feet
12:25:40 closer to the rear property line, and four feet closer to
12:25:45 the side property line.
12:25:47 There is already a 16-foot high, 16-foot tall garage
12:25:50 structure on this property.
12:25:52 They are seeking to make it 22 feet high.
12:25:54 It's going to tower over Greg's property.
12:25:57 Again, they showed photos of his house and how it's oriented
12:26:00 and so forth.
12:26:01 But that existed when they bought the property.
12:26:03 These are all conditions that existed when they bought the
12:26:05 property, and they cannot claim them as hardships now.
12:26:09 I would like to submit this one additional photo that's not
12:26:11 in your packet for the record.
12:26:12 And I will be happy to answer any other questions you might
12:26:15 We respectfully request that you deny this variance
12:26:17 application for the reasons that I have stated in great
12:26:21 detail, but in a nutshell they have not satisfied the
12:26:25 hardship criteria.
12:26:27 They have not shown that they will not substantially
12:26:30 interfere with the rights of other property owners, namely
12:26:32 my client, that will be adversely affected by this, and
12:26:35 there is no authority under your code or the Florida law to
12:26:38 grant a variance without the showing of a hardship.
12:26:42 Thank you very much.
12:26:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
12:26:43 Any questions by council members at this time?
12:26:47 >> May I enter into the record?
12:26:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Bring them all up.
12:26:51 Bring your wallet, bring whatever you want.
12:26:53 >> We have this for the record.
12:26:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: At the end of the meeting we receive and
12:26:57 file everything that's given from this council from 9:00 in
12:27:00 the morning to 9:00 at night if need be.
12:27:02 Anyone in the audience who has not spoken care to speak on
12:27:04 this item?
12:27:06 Item number 78.
12:27:11 Yes, sir.
12:27:11 >> My name is Andrew Williams.
12:27:15 And I'm a resident of the Villa Ross a park subdivision.
12:27:22 Which the property is part of.
12:27:23 And I live on 3017 west Hawthorne Road, which is an adjacent
12:27:31 And I am here to today to oppose that construction and the
12:27:34 variance on the property simply because at the lot line, the
12:27:39 garage sits almost within two and a half feet of the lot
12:27:42 And it's already at 16 feet.
12:27:45 And if they build it on up to the height of 22 feet, they
12:27:48 will be peering into Mr. Traux's backyard.
12:27:54 And if that was the case, that's like a prison guard having
12:27:59 a tower that overpeers the yard so it can look into the
12:28:03 privacy of the other person's yard.
12:28:05 It just towers over the wall that's there.
12:28:08 So the proximity of that problem would cause him to have
12:28:13 problems with his privacy.
12:28:15 And the folks that did the building of this new structure,
12:28:20 that it would not have any windows on the west side, well,
12:28:23 the west side is not the side that would face Mr. Traux's
12:28:29 It's the east side that should be no windows.
12:28:32 And also, if they are doing this construction on this
12:28:36 particular garage property, then they should be able to
12:28:41 withstand the current section of the garage to hold up this
12:28:46 new property that they intend to build.
12:28:49 And also, if they intend to build that, it should not have
12:28:52 any balconies that would overlook his backyard.
12:28:56 So I'm in opposition to this variance.
12:29:00 Thank you.
12:29:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
12:29:02 Mrs. Montelione?
12:29:03 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
12:29:07 I have a couple of questions, a couple of concerns.
12:29:09 A hardship is something that typically is very, very
12:29:12 difficult to prove and to substantiate, and the original
12:29:19 applicant of the variance request, the owner of the property
12:29:24 that wants to build the addition to the garage, had talked a
12:29:30 little bit about this person who brought this, Mr. Traux,
12:29:37 the property owner adjacent who brought this request for a
12:29:40 review hearing, and an observation of mine is when I am
12:29:46 guessing when you bought the house, Mr. Murillo, that Mr.
12:29:50 Traux's house was already there and you were aware that the
12:29:56 height of his home, and I'm referring to the pictures that
12:30:00 you took from your dining room or your backyard of Mr.
12:30:05 Traux's house that was there when you bought your own home,
12:30:09 >> That's correct.
12:30:12 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So you were aware from your property his
12:30:15 home was going to be looking down, or second-story windows,
12:30:22 or the point they are trying to make is his home looks into
12:30:27 your backyard already so what is he complaining about?
12:30:30 But you knew that that was there.
12:30:31 So when Mr -- what Mr. Traux is talking about what you want
12:30:37 to build on your garage, that's a condition that's new.
12:30:41 So that's the difference in the point there that I see.
12:30:44 And the letter from Mayfair Builders, that is the builder
12:30:51 that's been hired to do the construction?
12:30:54 >> Since we don't have a variance there hasn't been a signed
12:30:58 >> So when he gives his professional opinion, I would say
12:31:03 that would be a biased opinion because, you know, he's
12:31:06 looking at possibly getting this work, so I think that
12:31:12 there's a little -- there's a little bit of question in my
12:31:16 mind of the unfair, unbiased opinion of someone as opposed
12:31:22 to someone who is potentially going to get the work should
12:31:25 this variance --
12:31:27 >> Can I just respond to that?
12:31:28 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well, let me ask -- let me just make the
12:31:32 statement that I am going to make and then you can respond
12:31:35 to the whole thing instead of stopping and responding to
12:31:38 everything I have to say.
12:31:42 So the unique and singular, in section 17.5-74 application
12:31:47 of variance power, the alleged hardship or practical
12:31:51 difficulties are unique and singular with respect to the
12:31:54 I would assume that in this neighborhood -- and actually not
12:31:58 sums, from some of the pictures that we saw, there are homes
12:32:02 that have one-story garage, there are homes that have
12:32:05 two-story garages.
12:32:06 So the idea that your home, Mr. Murillo, only has a single
12:32:11 story garage and singular occurrence in the neighborhood,
12:32:14 and has been solely a condition of your property, there are
12:32:20 others that have one-story garages.
12:32:22 And to build what was referred to as a mother-in-law suite
12:32:29 on the garage is a hardship in my application of code that
12:32:40 if you have a reason that you have to care for an elderly
12:32:45 parent, or you have what we see a lot of now are soldiers
12:32:48 coming home from the war and they need to be taken care of
12:32:51 by their parent because they cannot take care of themselves,
12:32:55 and the parents have an addition on their house, or make
12:32:59 some consideration to take care of that child coming home,
12:33:06 that's a hardship.
12:33:07 But to have additional square footage just for the sake of
12:33:11 having additional square footage isn't necessarily befitting
12:33:17 the definition of hardship to me.
12:33:21 If there was some handicap issue, if there was some elderly
12:33:25 parent who needed to move in that you needed to care for, if
12:33:28 there was, you know, a justification of why you needed an
12:33:32 additional however many square feet, then I could see a
12:33:35 But certainly I don't see one just because you want to have
12:33:39 a little bit more elbow room for guests.
12:33:47 And as far as the intent of the code, the code now is
12:33:51 required to go up two stories you have to be further from,
12:33:56 you know, the property line and have that separation from
12:34:01 neighbors, and I understand that that's a preexisting
12:34:06 So your structure, your garage is permitted to be in the
12:34:10 condition that it is.
12:34:12 But if something were to happen to that garage, and you had
12:34:16 to rebuild, would you have to meet current code.
12:34:19 So you would have to move it back off the property line.
12:34:23 The way I see this addition onto the garage --
12:34:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We are approaching five minutes.
12:34:28 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay.
12:34:29 I'm trying to justify my opinion.
12:34:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All you have to do is vote.
12:34:36 [ Laughter ]
12:34:37 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Then I'll finish my conclusion and I
12:34:40 think you know where I am going with that.
12:34:42 That's how I feel.
12:34:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any on the council members?
12:34:46 Mr. Cohen and Mr. Suarez.
12:34:47 >>HARRY COHEN: I would just like to say for the record that
12:34:52 very briefly, sometimes things are built, properties are
12:34:57 built out as much as they can be.
12:34:58 And there just isn't room to continue to add on and add on
12:35:02 and add on.
12:35:03 And there's a reason that we have the setback requirements
12:35:06 that we do.
12:35:07 And that is to protect the integrity of the neighborhoods.
12:35:11 And the bottom line is there may be other two-story garages
12:35:14 around, but that's not, as Councilwoman Montelione said, a
12:35:20 reason to go ahead and abandon what we are trying to achieve
12:35:23 with our code.
12:35:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez?
12:35:28 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Yes.
12:35:29 Mr. Murillo or his representative, when did you move into
12:35:32 this house?
12:35:35 >> Purchased the home in June of 2006.
12:35:38 >>MIKE SUAREZ: In June of 2006?
12:35:40 And when did you start to add onto the garage?
12:35:43 >> I think we started the process earlier this year.
12:35:47 The Variance Review Board meeting was in June.
12:35:50 So at some point in the first half of the year.
12:35:52 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Was there something that changed your family
12:35:55 condition that made you decide that I need to build
12:35:58 something onto my garage?
12:35:59 >> Just the progressive age of my parents and my father is
12:36:02 in his late 70s and knife family in the Tampa area.
12:36:05 I moved here from outside.
12:36:06 I'm originally from Italy.
12:36:08 My parents spent a lot of time outside the country and I
12:36:10 wanted to be able to accommodate them so they could spend
12:36:13 some time with their seven and two-year-old grandkids that
12:36:17 are my children.
12:36:17 >> You are not putting your 70-year-old parents in the
12:36:20 garage apartment, though, are you?
12:36:22 >> That's where I would want them -- not full time.
12:36:25 It's not a full-time true. It for the time they visit.
12:36:28 I have no family in Florida, in the Tampa area, and I would
12:36:34 like to be able to accommodate them for several weeks at a
12:36:38 time, or a month at a time, so that they can spend time with
12:36:42 their young grandkids.
12:36:43 >> Thank you.
12:36:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other council members?
12:36:50 Anyone else in the public care to speak on this item?
12:36:52 And I need another -- in a, let me take 30 minutes so we can
12:36:55 make it.
12:36:57 Any additional -- I need an additional 30 minutes.
12:37:00 I have a motion by Mr. Cohen, second by Mr. Suarez on a
12:37:03 close vote with Ms. Mulhern.
12:37:05 All in fair of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
12:37:08 The ayes have it unanimously.
12:37:10 Yes, sir.
12:37:10 >> Jimmy Thomas. I reside at 3016 Villa Rosa park, been
12:37:16 there for about six and a half years.
12:37:17 And in looking at what's going on with this area, I have the
12:37:24 same predicament as my neighbors that live next door to me
12:37:27 in that I have a detached garage adjacent to their property.
12:37:30 And one thing that concerns me most, and I think that most
12:37:33 of the neighbors that signed letters and opposed the
12:37:35 variance in this case are all in agreement that what would
12:37:39 be happening here is a precedent would be set, and if he was
12:37:42 allowed to have this two-story house built, in essence would
12:37:49 be another house, that it would be overlooking everybody
12:37:52 else's property.
12:37:52 I think all the surrounding neighbors that signed letters,
12:37:55 for the most part myself included in that, I did not submit
12:38:00 letters but I am here to tell you that my neighbor would be
12:38:05 to my left, which would be 3012 or 3018, has an attached
12:38:11 My neighbor directly behind me has a detached garage.
12:38:14 And I would think it would be an atrocity for them to build
12:38:17 a garage, another Hutton top of their garage, overlooking my
12:38:22 And same thing with my neighbor there.
12:38:25 Even though -- his garage is on the other side of where my
12:38:29 lot is.
12:38:29 My drive is on his side.
12:38:31 So if I were to build up, would be overlooking his backyard.
12:38:34 So I think that is the concern of the neighborhood from what
12:38:37 I'm seeing and from what I'm understanding.
12:38:40 And I would oppose it.
12:38:42 I don't want a precedent set to where I would have to I come
12:38:46 down if my neighborhood had decided to build.
12:38:48 I just don't want to have to go through that process
12:38:51 because, again, I enjoy having a backyard with a pool and
12:38:55 being able to enjoy it.
12:38:56 These houses are so large to begin with, you know, and a
12:39:00 little history about 3016 Villa Rosa, it used to be 3016.
12:39:05 What happened was that house, those lots got divided in half
12:39:08 and they are now two properties.
12:39:10 So we are pushed right next to each other.
12:39:12 So my garage -- and I don't even know if my garage is in a
12:39:15 variance of three feet but it's right adjacent to his lot.
12:39:19 So these are the issues that I'm concerned about.
12:39:22 I just don't want the precedent set that anybody can come in
12:39:24 here and go, oh, I can understand if it was a hardship where
12:39:30 you have a vet coming home that's injured in the war and
12:39:32 needs his own set-up.
12:39:34 I can understand if it's an elderly parent that needed help
12:39:37 and there wasn't room to accommodate.
12:39:39 But these are huge houses on this lot.
12:39:41 I don't know if you know this neighborhood.
12:39:43 I have a 4400 square foot house.
12:39:46 Most of the houses on our block are huge.
12:39:48 So I just don't see the need for that need based on what
12:39:51 he's asking for.
12:39:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
12:39:53 Any questions by council members?
12:40:05 I see no one.
12:40:10 >>HARRY COHEN: Motion to close.
12:40:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seconded --
12:40:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: An opportunity for rebuttal both by the
12:40:17 applicant's representative and by the petitioner's
12:40:22 My suggestion would be that the applicant go first and the
12:40:24 last word be by the petitioner who has the burden.
12:40:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, let's go.
12:40:34 He's not the applicant.
12:40:38 The applicant in this case is Mr. Traux, isn't he?
12:40:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: He's the petitioner who is petitioning to
12:40:44 have the original application overturned.
12:40:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: They are going to leave just like they
12:40:54 came, not happy.
12:40:55 Go on.
12:40:55 >>> If I could address the hardship issue.
12:41:00 Council member Suarez asked me the question, with respect to
12:41:03 the discussion about bias, about the builder, I think the
12:41:06 builder is a reputable builder in the South Tampa community,
12:41:10 in the City of Tampa, so of course it would be a business
12:41:14 interest to obtain the work.
12:41:15 But at the same time, the staff of the Variance Review Board
12:41:18 I assume is biased but the review is not biased.
12:41:23 They both reviewed -- both of these organizations have
12:41:27 approved what we have here today.
12:41:30 So in terms of the bias, I just want to address that.
12:41:33 The photograph, it was not necessarily -- the purpose of the
12:41:39 photograph is to show what I am seeking to do is consistent
12:41:42 with the neighborhood.
12:41:43 It's consistent with my neighbor's property on both sides,
12:41:45 and consistent with the neighborhood.
12:41:48 I am well aware that the structure was there in my
12:41:52 neighbor's property when I purchased my home.
12:41:53 But the point is that the structure I want to put up is
12:41:59 consistent with the rest of the neighborhood.
12:42:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Next.
12:42:01 >>> Briefly, obviously we have a difference of opinion
12:42:08 whether the structure he's proposing is consistent with the
12:42:11 rest of the neighborhood.
12:42:11 I think I will stand on my prior comments to that.
12:42:14 And I will also once again reiterate, keep saying hardship
12:42:18 to Ms. Montelione's point, hardship is difficult to prove,
12:42:22 is meant to be difficult to prove because you are not
12:42:24 supposed to be able to just get it by showing just about
12:42:26 You have to really make a strong showing.
12:42:28 And again we don't believe in this case they have made that
12:42:31 Thank you very much.
12:42:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other comments by council?
12:42:35 Motion to close by Mr. Cohen, second by Mrs. Montelione.
12:42:38 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
12:42:40 Opposed nay.
12:42:41 The ayes have it unanimously.
12:42:44 It's our determination now to make a determination of what
12:42:46 happens here, appeal, one way or the other.
12:42:50 Ms. Mulhern.
12:42:50 >>MARY MULHERN: I am going to make a motion to overturn the
12:42:57 decision of the Variance Review Board based on the evidence
12:43:02 that we have heard today from the petitioner and the
12:43:05 original applicant.
12:43:07 I do want to say that before that, that I take the Variance
12:43:14 Review Board's decisions very seriously.
12:43:17 I always have.
12:43:18 And I don't often overturn, and usually if I was convinced
12:43:26 otherwise, maybe remand it back.
12:43:28 But in this case I think the applicants made a very good
12:43:31 I am going to cite section 17.5-74 which refers to the
12:43:41 variance review criteria. I am going to cite number 1, the
12:43:47 hardship criteria which my colleagues have very clearly
12:43:52 shown that petitioner showed and my colleagues have spoken
12:43:58 to the lack of a hardship really shown by this, and number
12:44:06 3, that if it's granted it will interfere with, the safety,
12:44:14 safety and welfare, and I think privacy would be included
12:44:19 and be injurious to privacy of the neighbors.
12:44:21 Number 4, that it's in harmony with the intent and purposes
12:44:26 of this chapter and I think we heard all about that today.
12:44:29 The reason, as Mr. Cohen said, quite eloquently, the reason
12:44:34 that we have setbacks, the reasons that we have zoning
12:44:37 restrictions is so that, you know, we do limit what you can
12:44:42 have, you know.
12:44:44 Everybody would -- I would love to have -- I have got a lot
12:44:48 about this size in a neighborhood nearby, and I have got a
12:44:51 pool, too, and I don't have a garage, I don't have -- you
12:44:56 know, so you can't have everything.
12:44:58 You just can't have everything.
12:44:59 >> Second.
12:45:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have a motion made by Mrs. Mulhern, a
12:45:03 second by Mr. Cohen.
12:45:07 Any further remarks by council members?
12:45:11 This is -- as the motion was stated to override the Variance
12:45:16 Review Board, if I recall.
12:45:18 All right.
12:45:21 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
12:45:24 Opposed nay.
12:45:26 Motion passes.
12:45:29 We go to item number 79.
12:45:32 Thank you all very much for attending.
12:45:34 Number 79.
12:45:44 >> Next on the agenda --
12:45:52 >>ERIC COTTON: Land Development Coordination.
12:45:53 This is a review of VRB 11-65 for property at 901 east Lotus
12:46:03 The applicant is seeking relief from section 27-133 which is
12:46:07 to keep an electric fence.
12:46:13 There is provisions in chapter 27 that the applicant must
12:46:16 show security issues to receive an electric fence in the
12:46:21 process, to have an electric fence approved.
12:46:23 The board debated this one very heartily, and the end result
12:46:27 was a denial.
12:46:28 The board denied the request for the electric fence.
12:46:30 If you have you have any questions we will be more than
12:46:33 happy to answer them for you.
12:46:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone in the audience who is going to
12:46:37 testify who has not been sworn in?
12:46:41 That's going to speak.
12:46:42 Clerk, we have to swear them in.
12:46:43 (Oath administered by Clerk).
12:46:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry, if I may.
12:47:01 I'm passing out to council, in addition to what you
12:47:04 previously received, the variance criteria, and I'm sure Mr.
12:47:09 Massey will be making reference to it.
12:47:11 Section 27-133.
12:47:14 I will have you turn to the second page.
12:47:16 As you see at the top it says variances.
12:47:19 But there is additional variance criteria relative to this
12:47:24 petition that you have before you, and I'm sure Mr. Massey
12:47:27 will get into that but I want you to have the hard copy.
12:47:29 Thank you.
12:47:33 >>MORRIS MASSEY: With the firm of Hill, Ward, Henderson, 101
12:47:37 East Kennedy here on behalf of the applicant in connection
12:47:40 with this review hearing.
12:47:42 As Mr. Cotton explained, this is a review of a denial of the
12:47:45 request for a variance for electric fence at 901 east LOTUS
12:47:52 I will put it briefly, and all of the materials in the
12:47:55 packets that are being handed out right now.
12:47:57 Under tab 2-A is a map, an aerial from the property
12:48:00 appraiser's record that show the general location of the
12:48:06 This is an existing auto repair, small business about 150
12:48:13 feet east of Nebraska Avenue, north of Busch, just south of
12:48:18 There is an existing electric fence that was installed
12:48:21 approximately at the end of 2000, early 2001.
12:48:25 City Council enacted criteria for electric fences in 2007.
12:48:29 A variance is required for electric fence at this location
12:48:33 So that's why we were before the Variance Review Board
12:48:36 requesting the existing electric fence be approved.
12:48:40 I do want to state for the record briefly that you all have
12:48:43 standards in 27-133 relative to electric fences.
12:48:47 This electric fence does not meet he have one of those
12:48:51 We are willing, if this is approved, to make modifications
12:48:54 to that electric fence to meet the requirements of 27-133-C.
12:49:00 This is a de novo hearing.
12:49:02 So you all are able to hear all of this and evidence anew.
12:49:06 I did file DVD hearing as part of this request.
12:49:15 We have presented evidence to justify evidence why a the
12:49:19 fence should be permitted at this location and this goes to
12:49:22 some of the criteria in 27-133 that is peculiar to electric
12:49:25 fences, but there is a significant security need for this
12:49:29 small business that's unique and singular.
12:49:33 We also intend on showing the electric fence successfully
12:49:36 addresses that security need, and that alternative forms of
12:49:39 security devices will not.
12:49:42 Your code also states we have to show this is a security
12:49:45 measure of last resort.
12:49:48 We also intend to show that electric fences are a safe
12:49:51 alternative and will not substantially injury or harm the
12:49:54 health or safety of others and we intend to show you
12:49:57 evidence about the visual impact of electrical fences at
12:49:59 this location to show it is not detrimental to adjoining
12:50:02 property owners.
12:50:04 First I would like to introduce our expert witness on
12:50:07 security issues, Mr. Joseph Walsh, a retired Tampa Police
12:50:11 Department senior sergeant.
12:50:14 He actually was a supervising officer for this area of the
12:50:17 City of Tampa for 12 years.
12:50:19 We additionally had another security expert, by the name of
12:50:23 Billy Hans, retired Tampa police officer.
12:50:27 He's in Afghanistan now.
12:50:29 Billy's CV is under tab 3-A.
12:50:33 His report is under 3-B in the binder.
12:50:36 We had asked Mr. Rollerson to review what Billy did to
12:50:40 update it and pro provide his own expert analysis in this
12:50:44 neighborhood and this location.
12:50:45 So I am going ask Mr. Rollerson to address you all.
12:50:48 >>> Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to address
12:50:53 this topic this afternoon.
12:50:55 I was asked to evaluate the need for an electrical fence at
12:51:01 auto repair 901 east lotus Avenue.
12:51:05 Based on my experience, statistical criminal statistical
12:51:09 data, and prior analyst report covering the past eleven
12:51:16 years at that location.
12:51:17 Additionally, I pulled some additional statistical
12:51:21 information for grids that are around the area where 901
12:51:27 east lotus is located and those grids are 11, 12, 19, 20.
12:51:35 My analysis revealed and confirmed that the prior reports
12:51:39 conducted by Billy Lamm that there has been a reduction in
12:51:44 crime in those core grids over the last eleven years.
12:51:47 However grid 20 where 901 east lotus is located is still in
12:51:53 one of the highest crime grids in the City of Tampa.
12:52:00 It suffers from crimes which are burglaries, robberies, car
12:52:05 thefts, and such, but it's not just limited to those crimes
12:52:08 as well.
12:52:12 During my research, I found that grid 20 had anywhere from
12:52:19 three to four times higher prostitution and drug activity
12:52:22 arrests in that grid when compared to grids 11, 12, and 19
12:52:29 And in my experience, one of my jobs at the police
12:52:34 department when I was there for eleven years, I worked on
12:52:37 the narcotics task force, and I worked in that area, and I
12:52:40 found a direct correlation between the drug activity,
12:52:45 prostitution activity, and the crimes that are committed,
12:52:48 and what occurs is that the businesses and the individuals
12:52:51 that live in those areas where these crimes, where these
12:52:56 things are taking place, suffer.
12:52:58 They have thefts.
12:52:59 They are victims of robberies and crimes because the people
12:53:02 are coming in to buy drugs.
12:53:04 The businesses that suffer the most usually because what it
12:53:07 is, a business like this, there's things on the property
12:53:10 that easily are taken, they are pawned, or sold very
12:53:21 Given that information, I found that the property there at
12:53:25 901 east lotus had installed an electrical fence sometime
12:53:28 around 2000, 2001.
12:53:32 Prior to that installation, that business had suffered some
12:53:36 of these crimes that I had mentioned to you earlier.
12:53:40 After the installation of the fence, these crimes between
12:53:44 the years 2001 to the present time, they have not reported
12:53:51 The only criminal activity that they have seen at that
12:53:53 location was the criminal mischief, and I believe someone
12:53:57 through threw a rock over the fence and broke the windshield
12:54:00 of a car stored on the property.
12:54:02 Prior to 2001 the owners of the property tried several
12:54:06 different alternative methods of securing the property, and
12:54:08 these methods were fencing, which the criminals would jump
12:54:17 through or jump over the fence and steal items from the
12:54:21 They tried alarms.
12:54:22 The alarms were ineffective.
12:54:24 Additionally they added cameras and security dogs.
12:54:26 If you look at your handout, in section H, there's two
12:54:31 articles in there that specifically relate to the
12:54:34 ineffectiveness of dogs and alarms, and the high liability
12:54:38 of those dogs being on the property.
12:54:40 In fact, the owners of the property had the dogs on the
12:54:44 property to try to protect it and they were killed.
12:54:48 He came in one morning, his property had been burglarized
12:54:51 and the dogs had been killed.
12:54:52 So clearly, it's an ineffective way to try to secure
12:54:56 business there given the drug activity and the criminal
12:55:02 activity in that area.
12:55:05 After I found out all these fact, my research showed that,
12:55:10 like I said, after 2001 the fence was installed, the owners
12:55:14 had no criminal activity whatsoever.
12:55:18 I went a little further just to see if maybe there were
12:55:21 other factors that might have stopped the criminal activity.
12:55:24 I did a visual survey of the neighborhood.
12:55:25 I conducted interviews with the business owners.
12:55:29 My visual observations clearly revealed that the
12:55:33 neighborhood has not one of the more conducive areas per se.
12:55:42 It has abandoned houses that are used for drug activity.
12:55:47 In fact, across the street from this business where illegal
12:55:51 dumping and vagrants and drug dealers hang out on a regular
12:56:02 Therefore, my direct opinion on this business is that the
12:56:07 electrical fence is definitely stopped the criminal activity
12:56:12 at that location.
12:56:15 I went around and I interviewed several businesses in the
12:56:17 neighborhood that have the same type of operations, and all
12:56:22 of the business owners in the neighborhood say they are
12:56:25 still seeing continued criminal activity.
12:56:29 However, they are not reporting, even though the crime
12:56:31 statistics are going down, they are not reporting all the
12:56:34 criminal activity.
12:56:36 In fact, one owner of the business said that his insurance
12:56:39 rates are so high now that if there were more he might not
12:56:45 be able to stay in business. They chalk it up to doing
12:56:49 business in the neighborhood and they are saying what
12:56:51 happened is they have sensors and alarms but they still
12:56:55 bypass and come in and get tools, tires, catalytic
12:56:58 converters and so forth.
12:56:59 In conclusion, on my investigation, and based on my
12:57:06 professional opinion and reviewing all the criminal
12:57:09 statistical data and interviewing all the business owners in
12:57:12 the area, I feel that the electric fence which encompasses
12:57:18 901 east lotus Avenue, an auto repair store, is definitely a
12:57:23 direct cause of the crime reduction at that location.
12:57:26 Statistics clearly show that since the electrical fence is
12:57:29 installed, there's been in a criminal activity there
12:57:34 It's an eleven or 12-year period.
12:57:36 In addition, it should be noted that the owner has at great
12:57:43 expense put in other types of alternative security measures,
12:57:45 and they all failed, which I have related today to council.
12:57:49 So consequently, it is my professional opinion that the
12:57:52 electric fence with the appropriate safeguards installed is
12:57:58 the only viable and effective means to protecting this owner
12:58:02 and keeping him from further financial loss.
12:58:05 Thank you.
12:58:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
12:58:09 >> I would like to introduce Dr. John Webster.
12:58:13 He is a professor emeritus from the University of Wisconsin
12:58:17 Madison, professor of biomedical engineering.
12:58:23 His specialty is pulse siting electrical devices, electrical
12:58:28 fences, and Dr. Webster is going to testify regarding the
12:58:32 safety of electrical fences.
12:58:35 >> Thank you.
12:58:36 For about 40 years, I have studied the effect of electricity
12:58:40 on the body both for diagnostic and therapeutic activities.
12:58:47 But one of the things we worry about is whether electricity
12:58:50 can harm people.
12:58:52 In this case, I was asked to look at the electric fence.
12:58:59 You might think about your child.
12:59:02 If your child comes up on an electric fence can a child be
12:59:07 Well, the answer is no, because there's a chain link fence
12:59:10 there the child can't get to it or climb it.
12:59:13 Then you might think of an adult.
12:59:16 Can an adult be harmed by an electric fence?
12:59:18 Well, they come up, and there's a big sign there, now,
12:59:21 electric fence.
12:59:26 Nevertheless, maybe a deranged person.
12:59:29 They have got to climb the fence.
12:59:31 And then the electric fence is inside, separated.
12:59:36 So they really have to go through a lot to get there.
12:59:39 But even this deranged person could touch the electric
12:59:44 Is there danger?
12:59:45 Well, committees from countries throughout the world have
12:59:49 come together to define standards for electric fences.
12:59:54 How much current can they apply, for how long in time, and
01:00:03 they have tested lots of different things, and they have
01:00:05 come up with international standards.
01:00:08 I have tested the electric -- number of electric fences to
01:00:13 see if they met the standard.
01:00:17 They do.
01:00:18 In fact, most of them, the ones that I have tested, have
01:00:20 only about half of the current that is permitted by the
01:00:29 There are electric fences for security purposes, which we
01:00:32 are talking about here, and there are electric fences for
01:00:36 farmers, thousands of them all over the country.
01:00:41 No human being has ever been electrocuted by an electric
01:00:46 They are safe.
01:00:47 So even if somebody climbs over Tampa restraining fence
01:00:51 there and crawls into the electric fence, they won't be
01:00:56 They will really be unhappy because it really puts out a
01:01:02 So my conclusion is that electric fences are safe, and they
01:01:10 do the job that they are designed to do.
01:01:11 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Montelione.
01:01:16 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I see that we are coming up on our
01:01:19 expiration of the 30 minute extension of time.
01:01:21 So just to be safe, let's extend -- I make a motion to
01:01:26 extend for another 30 minute.
01:01:27 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I'll second.
01:01:29 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion from Councilwoman
01:01:31 Montelione, seconded by Councilman Suarez.
01:01:33 Any discussion by council members?
01:01:35 Hearing none all those in favor indicate by saying aye.
01:01:38 >> Just for your reference, Dr. Webster's resumé is under
01:01:43 tab 4-A, about 30 pages long.
01:01:45 And he has alert to the security system to put up the
01:01:54 electric fence, and some studies behind that as well under
01:01:57 tab 4.
01:01:59 I also want to present to City Council some photographs.
01:02:04 And these again, most of them are under tab 5 of your
01:02:08 binder, the subject property and the neighborhood, so
01:02:12 council gets a feel for it.
01:02:14 The first photograph that you can see is coming on lotus
01:02:18 Avenue on the south side of lotus.
01:02:20 The fence that you see there is the automotive business on
01:02:25 Nebraska and lotus basically in front of M&S at 901 east
01:02:32 And this is the subject property.
01:02:39 101 east lotus.
01:02:41 The next is an apartment building.
01:02:45 And that is right there, the boundary between the two
01:02:49 And we have heavy vegetation in the dumpster there.
01:02:54 I have also taken some photographs further down, looking
01:02:57 back toward Nebraska.
01:03:00 So you often get a visual of what the existing situation
01:03:04 looks like.
01:03:09 And you will see frankly trees, vegetation, that's difficult
01:03:13 to see the electric fence.
01:03:15 And I will be very quick.
01:03:16 (Bell sounds)
01:03:17 Under tab 5 as well, photographs of property on the north
01:03:23 side of lotus, and you will see another tire on those around
01:03:33 the perimeter.
01:03:34 And then there's some other pictures of business -- of
01:03:37 properties within a two-block radius, abandoned homes,
01:03:41 graffiti, that sort of thing.
01:03:43 So we do not think that this would have a negative impact on
01:03:47 the neighborhood visually.
01:03:49 Also, there's letters under tab 6, the neighboring property
01:03:54 owner supporting this application.
01:03:56 Thank you.
01:03:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
01:04:00 Anyone in the audience care to speak on this subject matter,
01:04:02 item number 79?
01:04:03 Please come forward.
01:04:10 >> Pete Johnson, 510 Harrison street.
01:04:19 The information that I'm passing out is already in the
01:04:22 packet and you have already probably received, and reviewed
01:04:26 But this is a statement from John Newman that did research
01:04:33 on the property stating that there was no more criminal
01:04:36 activity in this neighborhood than in any other neighborhood
01:04:39 along Nebraska Avenue.
01:04:42 I have done research for the last 20 years on this
01:04:46 neighborhood, and there is no more -- there is no more crime
01:04:54 on this neighborhood than there is at 26th and Nebraska
01:04:59 where the prostitutes hang out.
01:05:03 This is detrimental to the neighborhood.
01:05:05 We passed a new ordinance stating that the property owner
01:05:09 had to show reasons.
01:05:12 He cannot show that he has tried any other programs like
01:05:17 cameras or dogs.
01:05:19 There is no proof of that.
01:05:21 He has no proof of loss of property.
01:05:26 There is no reason for this electric fences.
01:05:30 It's a deterrent for the neighborhood to regain some kind of
01:05:36 stability as a family neighborhood.
01:05:43 Second of all, if it is installed incorrectly like two
01:05:50 inches from the chain link, yes, a child could get an
01:05:55 electrical shock, as the doctor says, yeah, would you know
01:06:00 I'm sure, and there's just no proof.
01:06:08 There's no hardship.
01:06:09 He can't support it.
01:06:10 It's detrimental to the neighborhood.
01:06:13 That's why we changed the ordinance rather than just
01:06:18 property owners feeling that he's in fear that he has to
01:06:21 show some S kind of significant evidence why it is needed.
01:06:25 So please, I ask you to uphold the VRB.
01:06:30 They went by the ordinance.
01:06:31 They studied this.
01:06:33 This has been prolonged now for almost a year.
01:06:39 They need to get it get it cleared up.
01:06:41 I would hope that you would approve the VRB reading.
01:06:48 Everything in the police report that I can come up with is
01:06:52 petty theft.
01:06:53 Nothing of value of breaking and entering into any property.
01:07:00 I too have gone to he have single automotive repair shop in
01:07:04 the area.
01:07:05 They have all stated, TPD, in that district, too, has
01:07:12 improved so much that they are not in fear of being
01:07:15 vandalized or stolen from.
01:07:20 TPD is one thing.
01:07:23 I hope you support Jane Castor -- or Mr. Newman's statement.
01:07:27 Thank you.
01:07:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Next, please.
01:07:29 >>> Susan Long, 921 east broad.
01:07:36 As they have admitted crime in the area has been declining.
01:07:39 So they want to keep an electric fence?
01:07:41 Mr. Rollerson stated he went eleven years back.
01:07:45 And yet they testified they put in 12 years ago.
01:07:50 We have no comparison.
01:07:51 I'm a statistician.
01:07:54 If you want to show that you need something, you have to
01:07:58 look at what was there before, and the impact after.
01:08:01 They have never shown that there was any -- no data showing
01:08:05 what happened before and that this electric fence made a
01:08:08 Their statement is our crime rate has gone down.
01:08:10 Well, crime rate all over the city has gone down.
01:08:13 I live one block east of Nebraska.
01:08:16 Everybody here knows Nebraska is known for prostitution and
01:08:21 I do not have a problem.
01:08:23 I have never tried to get an electric fence around my
01:08:28 Nobody is any grid is afraid to go out and walk down the
01:08:31 street from my night, one block from Nebraska.
01:08:33 This is 901.
01:08:34 I live at 921.
01:08:37 Several properties.
01:08:40 Away from each other as far as distance from Nebraska.
01:08:43 The other thing I would say, they say, well, grid 20 is
01:08:47 But that doesn't -- not everybody in grid 20 has an electric
01:08:51 If grid 20 is so terrible let's put an electric fence all
01:08:54 the way around the grid and then check everybody there.
01:08:59 I don't understand why we have to go back to electric fences
01:09:01 and barbed wire up and down the center of the City of Tampa.
01:09:06 We spent four years getting arrived most of it.
01:09:11 There's some left years, little bits here and there and now
01:09:14 they want variances to keep them.
01:09:16 I'm strongly opposed to allowing electric fence to stay.
01:09:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else in the audience care to speak
01:09:21 on this subject matter, item number 79, who has not spoken?
01:09:24 Rebuttal, five minutes.
01:09:32 >>MORRIS MASSEY: Under tab 3-G of the binder, are statics at
01:09:36 901 east lotus.
01:09:38 I think they were pulled by Mr. Johnson.
01:09:40 They show there were several burglaries and crimes at this
01:09:42 location in 2000 and prior.
01:09:47 After 2000, there are some reported instances but those were
01:09:50 mostly false alarms and that shows the efficacy of electric
01:09:53 fences at this location.
01:09:54 I will have Mr. Rollerson come up and speak briefly again to
01:09:56 you but he personally interviewed the operator of the
01:10:00 business at 901 east lotus who did in fact say they had
01:10:04 tried other things before they put up the electric fence,
01:10:06 none of which worked.
01:10:07 He also interviewed -- and, again, he personally interviewed
01:10:10 these folks.
01:10:11 Business owners, like businesses in the neighborhood who
01:10:15 reported that they have at least four, five instances of
01:10:20 crimes that go unreported.
01:10:22 The TPD report was done at the request of Mr. Johnson, and
01:10:25 it is just a recitation of crime statistics.
01:10:27 There were no visual inspections.
01:10:29 There were no interviewing of business owners.
01:10:32 So we do think that Mr. Rollerson's evidence and the efforts
01:10:35 that we have made really go beyond what TPD did in this
01:10:43 So we do believe that we have carried our burden.
01:10:49 Woo he have said on the record that there are some things
01:10:54 with the electric fence that will be corrected if this
01:10:56 variance is granted.
01:10:57 I do understand that.
01:10:58 I do want to put up more graphs for you all to look at
01:11:01 because this area is north of Busch.
01:11:02 It's not down in Seminole Heights.
01:11:04 It is an area that is a very difficult area.
01:11:08 It's very serious crime problem in this area.
01:11:12 Here is evidence of activity within the block.
01:11:20 Gang activity, graffiti within the block.
01:11:23 The motel seems to be abandoned.
01:11:25 Although -- all these were taken this weak, actually.
01:11:29 All the photographs that you will find have been done.
01:11:32 In fact, yesterday.
01:11:36 Across from the site, TPD was picking up someone.
01:11:52 I will have Mr. Rollerson address some of the security
01:11:55 issues, but we do believe -- and another thing I do want to
01:11:57 add in that I don't think I pointed out, this property is
01:12:02 It is not on Nebraska Avenue so he has a lot less
01:12:05 It's across from a vacant lot.
01:12:08 It is a peculiar circumstance.
01:12:11 If you are on Nebraska, it much more likely to be safe
01:12:14 because of the pass-by traffic.
01:12:17 It's a lot more visible.
01:12:19 It's more likely someone is going to see the criminal
01:12:22 This is off of Nebraska about 150 feet.
01:12:25 So I just want to point that out for the record as well.
01:12:30 >> As Mr. Massey stated, I did go out and interview all the
01:12:37 businesses in and around 901 east lotus.
01:12:41 Several of the businesses are automotive repair shops, the
01:12:44 same thing that has the electric fence around it now.
01:12:47 And in each incident, each owner has stated that they have
01:12:54 barbed wire fencing or alarm systems, but they still are
01:12:57 victims of crimes on a regular basis.
01:13:00 And like I indicated --
01:13:05 And I will reiterate the fact that all of them said they are
01:13:10 not reporting the majority of these crimes because they
01:13:13 can't afford to.
01:13:14 The insurance is killing them.
01:13:16 It's just driving up their rates.
01:13:18 They do report some of the crimes.
01:13:20 There's one business, Tony Meachum's automotive repair.
01:13:26 He left one customer's car overnight, came in, the radio was
01:13:32 With M&S automotive they have three bay doors and two of
01:13:38 them are securable but only one can keep a car inside.
01:13:41 The second bay door is not large enough to keep cars.
01:13:44 And the third one is an open area where they have a car
01:13:47 lift, and they change tires, and they have tolls, and they
01:13:50 have a surrounding parking lot which they have fencing a
01:13:53 round it and usually at any given time three or four cars in
01:13:57 the parking lot at night.
01:13:58 He says that prior to having the fencing there, if he left
01:14:01 any cars out there, normally they would be burglarized or
01:14:05 property stolen out of them.
01:14:07 Since they have installed the fence, and yes, the crime rate
01:14:11 has gone down.
01:14:12 But since they have installed the fencing, he has not
01:14:15 endured any loss whatsoever.
01:14:17 He has tried his best with other alternative methods, as I
01:14:22 stated, including the dogs, which were killed on his
01:14:24 property, and the fencing is the only thing that has seemed
01:14:28 to stop the thefts completely there.
01:14:32 Thank you.
01:14:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
01:14:33 Mr. Suarez?
01:14:35 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mr. Massey, if you could answer a couple of
01:14:38 questions for me, I would appreciate it.
01:14:41 What's the lighting situation at the business?
01:14:43 Is it lit 24/7?
01:14:46 Is it -- how extensive is the lighting?
01:14:49 I think we all know that lighting is really the most
01:14:52 important deterrent.
01:14:53 What is the situation there?
01:14:54 >>MORRIS MASSEY: There is some lighting there but also have
01:14:56 on the side of the property fairly heavy vegetation which
01:14:59 blocks some visibility as well.
01:15:01 >> So there's no lighting from the -- I'm asking about the
01:15:08 petitioner's property, and their use of lighting on their
01:15:11 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Their property is lit with a flood light
01:15:17 right at the corner.
01:15:18 >> One flood light?
01:15:21 >> There's a street flood light at the corner between them
01:15:24 and the apartment building.
01:15:25 And there are lights on the front of their building that
01:15:27 shine down on their property toward the fence.
01:15:31 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And that's during the nighttime?
01:15:33 >>STEVE MICHELINI: That's anytime.
01:15:35 They are on sensors so they come on and turn on
01:15:38 >> But they don't have it awe on all the time then?
01:15:41 >> Not in the daytime.
01:15:43 Nighttime they are on, yes.
01:15:44 >> But you just mention add motion detector.
01:15:46 >> No, no, light sensors.
01:15:47 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Oh, light sensors.
01:15:50 I apologize.
01:15:51 Secondly, how many times have they put in a claim with their
01:15:55 insurance company?
01:15:55 >> There was mention about insurance.
01:15:57 And there's two things I want to say about insurance so
01:15:59 please tell me.
01:16:00 To my knowledge, initially they put in one claim of -- and
01:16:05 then when they got the response back from the insurance
01:16:07 company, they said that if they put in any more claims they
01:16:11 were going to be dropped, or that their premiums are going
01:16:15 to be increased.
01:16:17 And when they gave them the revised increase estimate they
01:16:20 said it simply wasn't possible.
01:16:23 So they stopped submitting claims.
01:16:26 >> How long ago was that?
01:16:29 >> I don't know.
01:16:29 >> Before or after the fence?
01:16:32 >>STEVE MICHELINI: It was after the fence.
01:16:34 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Let me make a statement quickly about
01:16:38 electronic fences and insurance.
01:16:39 It is more expensive on the insurance side when you have an
01:16:43 electrified fence primarily because of the potential injury
01:16:46 that you can cause to people who touch the fence.
01:16:49 Your own expert said you don't want to touch one of those
01:16:52 And when you do it's going to hurt.
01:16:54 And you know why insurance companies don't insure them?
01:16:57 It's because they don't want to be sued by someone who
01:16:59 touched the fence accidentally, especially children.
01:17:02 So if they only made one claim --
01:17:07 >> I believe that they --
01:17:07 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay, you are here representing them so I
01:17:10 have to go on your word.
01:17:11 If they only made one claim, that tells me a couple things.
01:17:13 One is that either, A, the fence is working and it's the
01:17:17 best deterrent ever, and every business in the city should
01:17:20 have an electric fence, or B, they are not putting in any
01:17:24 claims because they don't want to pay higher insurance
01:17:26 premiums because they are already paying a fairly high
01:17:29 insurance premium, would be my guess.
01:17:30 >> I was just advised Actually the security fence company
01:17:34 that installs the electric fence carries the premium and so
01:17:37 that is not something that the business owner deals with.
01:17:40 The business owner -- the security fence company actually
01:17:44 will pay for the insurance for the electric fence.
01:17:45 >>MIKE SUAREZ: No, wait a minute.
01:17:48 You just said something a little incorrectly.
01:17:50 You said they will pay for the insurance for the electric
01:17:52 What do you mean by that?
01:17:55 >> They will provide the liability insurance for the
01:17:57 property relative to the --
01:18:01 >>MIKE SUAREZ: It sounds to me like a warranty, not an
01:18:03 insurance policy.
01:18:05 >>MORRIS MASSEY: Actually, the fence company owner is here
01:18:08 and he says it on the insurance policy.
01:18:11 >> I doubt that but thank you for mentioning that to me.
01:18:13 Security companies, on the companies that you deal with,
01:18:15 when you contract with them, typically will warranty that
01:18:18 you won't get a theft or some other function.
01:18:20 They usually do not provide insurance for your particular
01:18:25 That's coming from an insurance man.
01:18:27 I don't know what you have, but that's just my guess.
01:18:30 Mr. Michelini, before you go on, are there any children that
01:18:33 live in that apartment complex near the building?
01:18:38 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I didn't see any.
01:18:40 >> You didn't see any but we don't know?
01:18:43 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I don't know.
01:18:44 The apartment complex owner submitted a letter supporting
01:18:46 the petition.
01:18:49 The only ones that I have ever seen there have been young
01:18:52 adults and older people up in age.
01:18:55 I'm guessing 60, 70 years old.
01:18:59 >> Okay, so we don't know.
01:19:00 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I don't know.
01:19:01 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Now you say they made one claim.
01:19:04 You don't know when they made a claim with the insurance
01:19:06 You have given statistics about a surrounding area about you
01:19:09 not really about those claims that were made by this
01:19:12 particular owner.
01:19:14 So we are not really sure what we are dealing with here.
01:19:17 All you know is you want the fence to say electrified but
01:19:21 not whether or not it has been as much of a deterrent as you
01:19:24 like to say in here.
01:19:25 Based on the information that you have been given, I have
01:19:27 been given, there is no way for me to make that
01:19:30 >> I think what our expert has said is that really there has
01:19:35 been very little in the way of claims made to this property
01:19:39 after the electric fence was installed.
01:19:41 Other like businesses in this area within grid 20 on the
01:19:44 east side of Nebraska Avenue where there is not electric
01:19:47 fence, they have -- they have not submitted claims.
01:19:50 They have had four or five instances per year of theft and
01:19:54 they just carry it as a cost of doing business.
01:19:56 >> Again, I am trying to prove a negative.
01:19:59 We don't really know what those circumstances are with each
01:20:02 one of those businesses.
01:20:03 We are only talking about this one.
01:20:05 I don't think I have anything else.
01:20:06 I just want to say that an electrified fence in any area of
01:20:10 the city is a pretty serious concern for me.
01:20:13 I'm not sure this is the right way to go.
01:20:15 To me, I believe electrified fences can cause more harm, not
01:20:20 only in terms of specific injuries to someone, or maybe not
01:20:27 injury but shock to someone, but also because the way it
01:20:31 portrays the neighborhood, regardless.
01:20:32 If there is a crime issue, we have to deal with the crime
01:20:36 If it is a preponderance of crime that's something the city
01:20:41 takes seriously, me and my colleagues, in terms of fighting
01:20:45 crime in that area.
01:20:45 But electrified fences is really not the way to go.
01:20:49 I'm done.
01:20:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Montelione.
01:20:52 >>LISA MONTELIONE: This is my district and I'm very
01:20:54 familiar with this area.
01:20:55 I do a lot of driving up and down the street in this area.
01:21:00 I have toured the neighborhoods with code enforcement, about
01:21:05 to tour the neighborhood with budget and finance.
01:21:09 I have taken Mr. Herr from public works.
01:21:15 And there are a lot of challenges in this neighborhood.
01:21:18 And part of the challenges are dealing with the businesses
01:21:20 that exist in the commercial intensive sections.
01:21:23 If you look at the planning zoning map, there are commercial
01:21:27 businesses that line the corridors within residential
01:21:32 interior to the neighborhood.
01:21:33 The history of this area in general, Busch Boulevard, has
01:21:36 been an industrial, you know, back in the 40s and 50s,
01:21:41 and that was the nature of the neighborhood.
01:21:43 But it's become more residential in recent years.
01:21:48 And I have got to say, I don't see the hardship either.
01:21:55 I have been looking at the crime statistics in the area on
01:21:58 your own chart, the crime has really decreased.
01:22:07 And I'm not talking about just on this property, because you
01:22:10 are saying crime decreased because of the electric fence.
01:22:14 In the general area.
01:22:17 So it's difficult to see what the hardship is.
01:22:22 And the only date that's on here is September 24, 2012.
01:22:26 I'm guessing that this is your tab F.
01:22:32 It says September 24, 2012, but that I'm assuming was the
01:22:36 date this report was produced.
01:22:38 >> The update of the information that was previously
01:22:41 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So what is the time span for this report
01:22:46 of these crimes occurring?
01:22:48 >> Under tab F is an update from 2011 through today, 2012.
01:22:53 The prior tab is the calculation of the crimes in four grid
01:22:57 areas, close to the point of four crime grids for the last
01:23:06 ten years.
01:23:08 >> But the list I am looking at under tab F is over the
01:23:12 ten-year period?
01:23:14 >>MORRIS MASSEY: Let me take a look real quick.
01:23:16 >> Way see here is a preponderance of drugs, prostitution,
01:23:27 and very little actual percentagewise burglaries.
01:23:32 >> Under tab F, times from the beginning of 2012 through
01:23:38 Eight very short window of time.
01:23:40 Recent data.
01:23:41 And it's the most serious crime, you know, the front line,
01:23:46 one type crime data, under the prior -- under tab 3-E is a
01:23:51 summary of the crime statistics for the four grids, from
01:23:58 2001 through 2011.
01:24:01 And it's a summary tabulation.
01:24:03 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Right.
01:24:04 And again, what I said was, the preponderance of crimes on
01:24:11 this list are drugs and prostitution.
01:24:14 There are very few burglaries listed here.
01:24:18 So I don't see that the burglaries are the issue.
01:24:24 It's the drugs and prostitution that are the issues.
01:24:30 I don't know that electric fences control drugs and
01:24:33 >> I they think they are all tied together.
01:24:35 They feed one another.
01:24:36 What our expert has told you, a lot of theft is not reported
01:24:39 in this area.
01:24:40 And he interviewed the businesses that don't have it in the
01:24:45 area as well electric fences in the area as well.
01:24:48 And I understand that you want to encourage better
01:24:51 development in this area of the City of Tampa.
01:24:54 But you have some small businesses that have hung on, and to
01:24:59 take away what has allowed them to hang on, and I believe
01:25:03 the electric fence has allowed this business to hang on, it
01:25:07 may have a detrimental effect.
01:25:09 >>LISA MONTELIONE: But the similar businesses that are
01:25:10 located along all the side streets there, because you go
01:25:14 down -- a lot of the side streets off of Busch Boulevard,
01:25:18 and going north, there are a lot of automotive repair
01:25:23 businesses and those sorts of businesses.
01:25:25 You? But they don't all have electric fences.
01:25:29 >>MORRIS MASSEY: Not all of them do but some of them do.
01:25:32 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And I assume the same rate of crime as
01:25:35 anyone else does.
01:25:36 If your client has an electric fence and the guy next door
01:25:40 doesn't and the public knows that, they are going to visit
01:25:42 his property more often because he does not have the
01:25:46 electric fence.
01:25:47 >>MORRIS MASSEY: That may be true.
01:25:48 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So with TPD, I talked to them often.
01:25:53 What happens is the crimes just get shifted from one place
01:25:55 to another rather than get eliminated.
01:25:58 They just go somewhere else.
01:26:00 Same thing with dogs.
01:26:00 And the house burglary, somebody is going to know -- I have
01:26:03 a pit bull at my house.
01:26:05 They are not going to come to my house.
01:26:07 They are going to go next door where they don't have a pit
01:26:10 So it's protecting that own person's property, not the area
01:26:15 And the fact that the crimes go unreported, there may be a
01:26:18 lot of reasons for that.
01:26:19 So I don't see that that is evidence to the crime rate.
01:26:26 It just looking at the pictures as well.
01:26:29 The electric fence is just one way, one line of defense.
01:26:32 There are other lines of defense.
01:26:35 Councilman Suarez pointed out lighting is one.
01:26:37 Looking at the pictures of the M&S auto repair, I see two
01:26:43 lights on -- not really tall poles, and I do see the
01:26:49 Now, those trees seem to be on the property of M&S.
01:26:53 Those trees can be trimmed.
01:26:54 It looks like they haven't been trimmed in probably 20
01:26:57 So if the trees were properly cared for and trimmed back to
01:27:00 the point where they could be trimmed, they may not be such
01:27:03 an impediment to additional light available by the
01:27:07 streetlights that are there on the TECO poles.
01:27:13 So there are other methods of defense in this neighborhood
01:27:18 other than electric fences.
01:27:20 And there are a lot of activity that could be undertaken by
01:27:25 the residents and business owners in that neighborhood as we
01:27:27 have seen in Ybor City.
01:27:30 There are businesses who communicate with each other in
01:27:32 order to reduce the crime in that area.
01:27:37 So the participation of the businesses with the residents
01:27:40 with TPD, with the community, to stem the crime and fix up
01:27:45 the neighborhood and make it less attractive to drugs and
01:27:48 prostitution that behest crime would probably be another on
01:27:56 the defense available rather than on electric fence.
01:27:58 >>STEVE MICHELINI: If I could respond to that briefly.
01:28:01 The preponderance of single family owner occupied residences
01:28:05 there is quite low.
01:28:07 It's a very, very high rental non-resident occupied area,
01:28:13 extremely high.
01:28:14 And within one block, I would say that probably there are at
01:28:19 least four abandoned homes.
01:28:21 I showed you a picture of one of them.
01:28:24 And the retention pond across the street that the city
01:28:28 operates is fenced, and that corner directly behind the bar
01:28:34 that's also across the street from M&S auto seems to be a
01:28:39 gathering point as well as the apartment complex immediately
01:28:41 to the east.
01:28:43 When I first went out there, I stopped in front of the
01:28:47 property to take the pictures, and I was immediately
01:28:50 accosted by four drug dealers who were trying to either get
01:28:55 me to buy something from them, or blocking the front of my
01:29:00 car and they wouldn't let me leave, and I simply told them,
01:29:03 look, get out of the way or I'm going to move forward
01:29:06 regardless of whether you move or not.
01:29:08 And shortly after that, the police came down into the area.
01:29:14 They had seen the group sort of gathering there.
01:29:16 And I'm not really sure exactly what was going on.
01:29:18 But TPD suspected it was a drug deal of some sort.
01:29:23 But they scattered quieted rapidly, and then the officer was
01:29:28 very kind enough to say, you know, you ought to be careful,
01:29:31 this is a very difficult area.
01:29:34 For anyone to characterize this as a safe neighborhood is a
01:29:41 The M&S auto, when you erect an electric fence, the electric
01:29:46 fence itself is not obtrusive.
01:29:49 It is three wires inside a chain link fence.
01:29:54 You have to go through a six to eight-foot chain link fence
01:29:59 to even get to it.
01:30:00 And what's happened in the past is the perpetrators of
01:30:03 various crimes take mattresses or blankets, and they throw
01:30:08 them over the top of the fence, they have -- it's a
01:30:11 three-man operation.
01:30:12 They have a van.
01:30:13 They pull up next to the fence.
01:30:15 They throw a mattress over it.
01:30:16 Two of the guys boost one guy over.
01:30:18 He goes in and does whatever he wants to do, and vandalizes
01:30:23 or steals equipment off the cars.
01:30:26 And they are basically spanning a bridge over the fences.
01:30:31 It's not the fence.
01:30:33 It's the issue.
01:30:34 When you put the signs up that say "electric fence, beware,
01:30:39 warning, "eye "that is what draws the attention.
01:30:43 You could put the sign up now and not have an electric
01:30:49 You could put them up over these commercial properties and
01:30:52 say 10,000-volt electric fence, beware.
01:30:55 But the three strands of wire are barely visible.
01:30:58 It's the sign itself that draws your attention to it.
01:31:01 And the fact that people know that they shouldn't be in
01:31:06 I interviewed with TPD long before anyone else asked them to
01:31:10 write a report on the crime statistics, and the officers in
01:31:13 the field are the ones who are telling me that there are
01:31:16 problems there, that they have more dispatches for more
01:31:19 police officers in this area per person than they do in most
01:31:24 on the parts of the city.
01:31:26 And it's simply a very difficult area.
01:31:31 The businesses have to survive.
01:31:33 And if they are coming to you and they tell you that in
01:31:36 order to survive, we have to protect our property, and we
01:31:39 have to protect the goods and services and the people that
01:31:42 frequent our location, where else are they going to go?
01:31:46 They have tried security camera.
01:31:47 They tried dogs.
01:31:48 They have tried the fences.
01:31:50 And what they found is that the electric fence is a
01:31:53 significant deterrent.
01:32:03 I would like to tell you people have to walk up and go to a
01:32:06 "stand your ground" and things like that.
01:32:07 Doesn't happen here.
01:32:08 There are bars and lounges that have been there for 75 years
01:32:11 that they go to.
01:32:13 There are drug holes that have been there for 25 or 50 years
01:32:15 that they go to.
01:32:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't want another lecture.
01:32:19 >> cWe respectfully request your approval.
01:32:24 These people are trying to hang on.
01:32:25 And they need your support.
01:32:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen.
01:32:29 >>HARRY COHEN: Well, respectfully, I disagree with Mr.
01:32:33 Suarez and Ms. Montelione.
01:32:34 I do think that you have made a case for the hardship.
01:32:37 And I have to tell you, when you have crimes like
01:32:40 prostitution and drug dealing and the amount of graffiti we
01:32:46 saw in these photographs, we all know about the theories of
01:32:51 crime management and policing that say when you have a
01:32:53 plethora of those types of activities, serious crimes come
01:32:56 and follow right on their heels.
01:32:58 And let me just say also, when people have dogs that get
01:33:03 killed, that is definitely a sign that on the measures need
01:33:10 to be taken.
01:33:11 That said, given my opinion being that, it seems to me that
01:33:15 we can all count.
01:33:17 It's 1:30 in the afternoon.
01:33:18 And we have had two members here already say they are not in
01:33:24 favor of overturning the VRB which means there aren't enough
01:33:27 of us to do it even if we all agree.
01:33:29 So I would suggest that we wrap this up and move it on to
01:33:33 have a full council consider it because we are not going to
01:33:37 be able to resolve it today.
01:33:38 >>STEVE MICHELINI: We respectfully request a continuance to
01:33:42 a date when we have a full council.
01:33:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Mulhern?
01:33:50 >>MARY MULHERN: Maybe I'm not listening closely.
01:33:53 I guess you are requesting that continuance?
01:33:59 I either can't count or I'm not psychic.
01:34:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say this.
01:34:08 >> You need four votes to do anything, I think.
01:34:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It's not up to me to decide what the
01:34:20 petitioner is going to do. It's up to them.
01:34:24 >>MORRIS MASSEY: We would request a continuance of this
01:34:26 hearing until we have a full council.
01:34:27 >> Let me say this with caution.
01:34:30 We have already heard this case.
01:34:32 >>MORRIS MASSEY: Understood.
01:34:32 And --
01:34:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Those two members, I'm sure they will go
01:34:36 listen to this tape.
01:34:38 But we are not going to take any new evidence on the other
01:34:41 hearing if it's approved by this council.
01:34:43 >>MORRIS MASSEY: Yes, sir, understood.
01:34:45 Yes, sir.
01:34:45 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Move to continue.
01:34:46 >>MARY MULHERN: Now that you point that out, if you don't
01:34:53 get four votes, it's going to come back anyway and then we
01:34:56 could just have our colleagues vote.
01:34:58 So instead of continuing it and opening it up to more
01:35:02 discussion --
01:35:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No.
01:35:05 Excuse me for interrupting you.
01:35:06 I not more discussion.
01:35:07 The rules are set.
01:35:08 We listened to the case.
01:35:10 We heard all the evidence and the documents.
01:35:12 It's up to the two council members to review and I'm sure
01:35:16 they will.
01:35:16 And then you have a full vote.
01:35:18 Everything is going one way or the other.
01:35:22 And it makes a difference to me -- makes no difference to me
01:35:25 if it's 1:30 in the morning.
01:35:27 >>MARY MULHERN: Mr. Shelby, if we continue this, can it
01:35:33 come back with just requesting, making certain that the two
01:35:40 council members who aren't here have reviewed the record and
01:35:43 we are just going to vote?
01:35:45 Or are we obligated -- we can just say that within the
01:35:49 continuance motion?
01:35:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, although if council members after
01:35:55 reviewing the tape do wish to have questions, it's their
01:36:00 right to have those --
01:36:02 >>MARY MULHERN: Other than their questions.
01:36:06 We have all had our opportunity to question.
01:36:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion for continuance by Ms.
01:36:14 Seconded by Mr. Cohen.
01:36:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Date and time, please?
01:36:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Date and time.
01:36:21 I have to find out what day on the calendar is preferable.
01:36:27 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Do you have a preferred date to come
01:36:29 back to council?
01:36:31 >>MORRIS MASSEY: I understand we are not going to be able to
01:36:33 give any more presentation and it's a vote by the council
01:36:36 I don't think there is a date --
01:36:40 >>LISA MONTELIONE: The next meeting is October 4th, the
01:36:42 next regular meeting.
01:36:46 >>MORRIS MASSEY: Let me ask my client.
01:36:51 If you continue it to October 18th, we would appreciate
01:37:01 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Move to continue to October 18th at
01:37:05 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
01:37:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion for October 18 at 10:30
01:37:10 by Ms. Montelione, second by Mr. Cohen.
01:37:12 Further discussion by council members?
01:37:14 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
01:37:16 Opposed nay.
01:37:17 >>MIKE SUAREZ: No.
01:37:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion passes 4-1.
01:37:24 Thank you very much.
01:37:26 We go to new business by council members from rate to left.
01:37:30 Mr. Suarez.
01:37:31 >>MIKE SUAREZ: No new business.
01:37:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
01:37:34 Ms. Mulhern.
01:37:35 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to ask for a staff report at
01:37:42 our October 4th meeting, a report on the recent tree
01:37:46 removal in Ybor City.
01:37:50 I ask that staff be prepared to answer questions regarding
01:37:52 the city's procedure for tree removal replacement including
01:37:57 whether or not the city itself is exempt from these
01:38:01 procedures, how the Barrio Latino commission should factor
01:38:05 into these types of decisions, the practice of notifying
01:38:08 neighborhoods about these types of projects, and the city
01:38:11 departments are responsible for the notifications and how
01:38:13 the particular types of trees olive and crape myrtle were
01:38:19 selected to replace the trees.
01:38:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I was advised by a councilor, rightly so,
01:38:24 at a staff meeting just Tuesday, we discussed this, that the
01:38:26 clerk's office is under duress from the shortening of the
01:38:30 calendars and the calendars coming back to back now, and I
01:38:33 appreciate it if you could change that to the 18th of
01:38:37 >> Well, they may have already planted all their new trees
01:38:41 by then.
01:38:45 I would like to just have it.
01:38:48 They went long enough without giving anybody any notice.
01:38:51 I think they can come here in two weeks.
01:38:53 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Second.
01:38:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion and second.
01:38:57 All in favor?
01:38:59 Motion passes.
01:39:01 Anything else, Ms. Mulhern?
01:39:02 Mr. Cohen?
01:39:03 >>HARRY COHEN: No, thank you.
01:39:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Montelione?
01:39:07 >>LISA MONTELIONE: One item of new business.
01:39:08 And Mr. Reddick isn't here to hear my public announcement
01:39:13 This Saturday is prescription drug take-back day.
01:39:18 And as we all are aware, prescription drugs are a harm in
01:39:28 your home if they are no longer being utilized or if they
01:39:32 have expired.
01:39:33 We have had a preponderance of drug problems in our city,
01:39:38 and I think the last hearing we just saw a lot of crime in
01:39:44 our city is drug related.
01:39:46 So the locations this Saturday are Sweetbay supermarket on
01:39:52 North Dale Mabry, 2525 North Dale Mabry, and 2535 State Road
01:39:57 60, one in Valrico, one in the City of Tampa, and the museum
01:40:02 of science and industry which is on Fowler Avenue.
01:40:06 So if you have prescription drugs in your home, you can
01:40:09 bring them to any of those locations between 10 a.m. and 2
01:40:15 I would encourage anyone to go through their medicine
01:40:19 cabinets and participate in the take-back day.
01:40:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anything else?
01:40:26 >>HARRY COHEN: Motion to receive and file.
01:40:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second by Mrs. Mulhern.
01:40:29 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
01:40:32 Opposed nay.
01:40:32 The ayes have it unanimously.
01:40:34 Anyone in the audience care to speak?
01:40:36 You two in the back?
01:40:37 Any comments you care to make so I don't have to read about
01:40:39 it in the newspaper?
01:40:41 We stand adjourned until 5:01.
01:40:50 We stand adjourned till 5:01.
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