TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, October 18, 2012
9:00 a.m. session
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09:05:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: City Council is called to order.
09:05:49 Chair yields to Mrs. Mary Mulhern.
09:05:52 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
09:05:53 Good morning, everyone.
09:05:54 It's my great pleasure and honor today to introduce Rabbi
09:05:59 Richard Birnholz of Congregation Schaarai Zedek to give our
09:06:09 morning invocation.
09:06:11 Please stand.
09:06:12 >>> Our God, we thank you for the dawn in each new day and
09:06:17 for the opportunities it raises.
09:06:21 You have given us the ability to see the multitude of ways
09:06:24 that we can reshape your world, ways in which we can right
09:06:29 the wrongs, make justice more perfect, and lessen the want
09:06:33 that surrounds us.
09:06:35 Give us the will to do these things and the patience to
09:06:39 bring the conclusion of these tasks to their rightful ends.
09:06:44 Be especially with our City Council.
09:06:49 Its responsibility is awesome.
09:06:51 Balancing competing needs among diverse groups is an effort
09:06:55 that even you, God, I am sure find challenging.
09:07:00 Ruling with fairness and serving with equity are noble
09:07:04 goals, but in reality they are difficult to achieve.
09:07:07 Give each of our council members the desire to strive for
09:07:12 perfection, but also the wisdom to know that without your
09:07:16 divine help they cannot do it all alone.
09:07:20 May we, the citizens of this great city, also do our part to
09:07:24 help you manage our city with grace.
09:07:27 Let our requests be reasonable, our vision leave room for
09:07:31 the vision of others, and give us the desire to do our part
09:07:36 in making our neighborhoods safe.
09:07:38 We thank you, God, for all the blessings you bestow upon us
09:07:43 and pray that with your guidance we may build a world that
09:07:46 is pleasing in your sight.
09:07:50 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:07:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Roll call.
09:08:24 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
09:08:27 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
09:08:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:08:30 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
09:08:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:08:37 Okay, we need approval of regular session meeting minutes
09:08:40 for September 27th.
09:08:43 I have a motion by Mr. Suarez, second by Mr. Cohen.
09:08:45 All in favor of the motion? Opposed nay?
09:08:48 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:08:49 Under item 1, the ceremonial activity, we have a memorandum
09:08:54 that this will be continued, and Ms. Montelione will advise
09:09:00 us on that.
09:09:10 We look at now the approval of the agenda and the addendum.
09:09:14 Clerk, would you like to take us through that?
09:09:16 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: City clerk, to review the addendum
09:09:26 to the final agenda which only reflects items released after
09:09:30 release of the final agenda, starting with the first item,
09:09:35 the off-the-agenda item, we have a memorandum from Michael
09:09:40 HERR, administrator of public works, requesting that a
09:09:43 workshop regarding a review of upcoming solid waste rate
09:09:47 increases scheduled for October 25th, 2012, be postponed
09:09:52 until December 6th, 2012, or after December 13, 2012,
09:10:02 CRA regular session.
09:10:06 Looking at requests for continuances or review -- removal of
09:10:10 items, item 47, we have a memorandum from senior assistant
09:10:18 city attorney Julia Mandell requesting a continuance to
09:10:24 December 20th, 2012.
09:10:26 This is regarding item number 47.
09:10:30 Item number 48, we have a memorandum from Michael HERR
09:10:35 requesting that that item be removed from the agenda to
09:10:39 allow additional staff coordination and review.
09:10:44 Item number 352, we have an e-mail from City Council member
09:10:49 Mulhern requesting that item 52 be removed from the agenda.
09:10:57 Item number 56, we have an e-mail from the petitioner
09:11:05 requesting that council reschedule the review hearing to
09:11:08 April 4, 2012, due to some unexpected events.
09:11:15 Other notes regarding the agenda, we have an e-mail from
09:11:22 City Council member Montelione requesting that the
09:11:25 commendation be rescheduled to a date that is convenient for
09:11:29 the recipient.
09:11:32 This is regarding the commendation item number 1.
09:11:36 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Move approval.
09:11:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, I just wanted to speak to item
09:11:45 number 52 since I requested it be removed from the agenda,
09:11:48 and I think the public needs to hear an explanation.
09:11:54 We had had a workshop and had discussion about this, and I
09:11:57 had brought a draft resolution last week or two weeks ago.
09:12:06 Indications are that there was little support -- indications
09:12:14 at the two council meetings we have had.
09:12:16 I didn't get any indication that there was support to pass
09:12:20 such a resolution.
09:12:21 I would still support it, but I would just recommend that
09:12:24 anyone, the individuals from the public who are interested
09:12:26 in this issue would need to work with other council members
09:12:32 if they want that to go forward.
09:12:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay, any further items on 47, 48, 52,
09:12:44 Anyone else on those?
09:12:45 I believe there's one of them there, Mr. Shelby, 56, is this
09:12:56 the second time it's been pulled?
09:12:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, Mr. Chairman, it's my understanding.
09:13:01 I have researched this.
09:13:02 The rule that council stated that creates a sort of
09:13:05 moratorium when there has been more than one misnotice, only
09:13:09 applies to rezonings.
09:13:11 When council passed the issue as regard to review hearings,
09:13:15 that provision was not put in.
09:13:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want the clarity so no one later
09:13:20 on in life can say we did or we didn't.
09:13:23 Thank you very much.
09:13:23 >> (off microphone).
09:13:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Number which one?
09:13:41 Number 1?
09:13:42 Mrs. Montelione -- no, that's Mr. HERR's request.
09:13:47 I don't know.
09:13:48 Is he leaving it up to us?
09:13:52 >>HARRY COHEN: Yes, he is.
09:13:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What is council's pleasure then?
09:13:55 >>HARRY COHEN: The meeting on the 6th is not very long
09:13:58 so we could do it then.
09:13:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Then do I hear a motion?
09:14:01 I have a motion by Mr. Cohen for December 6th, seconded
09:14:05 by Mrs. Mulhern on a close vote with Mr. Suarez.
09:14:08 All in favor of that? Opposed nay?
09:14:10 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:14:13 >>THE CLERK: The time of that workshop?
09:14:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Same time as our workshop.
09:14:17 10 a.m.
09:14:18 >>MIKE SUAREZ: 10 a.m.
09:14:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
09:14:22 That being said I need a motion for approval of the agenda
09:14:25 and the addendum.
09:14:27 Motion by Mr. Suarez, second by Mr. Cohen.
09:14:29 All in favor of the motion? Opposed nay?
09:14:32 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:14:33 At this time the chair yields to Mr. Reddick who will make
09:14:36 an introduction.
09:14:36 >>FRANK REDDICK: We are honored to have before us this
09:14:45 morning mount pleasant charter school representatives.
09:14:52 Would you all please stand?
09:15:03 Any of you play football?
09:15:07 Would anyone wish to say anything?
09:15:08 >> Good morning, councilmen.
09:15:17 My name is David Jensen, also Mr. Dickens, and these men are
09:15:29 at mount pleasant middle school.
09:15:31 Our school is -- these fine young people here is going to
09:15:36 learn and understand what middle school is all about.
09:15:40 And we are over in West Tampa.
09:15:42 And we are glad to be here today.
09:15:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We welcome you, and not only do they look
09:15:49 like fine athletes but great students.
09:15:51 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you very much.
09:15:58 And the student representative, does anyone wish to say
09:16:05 Anybody else?
09:16:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Might be the quarterback.
09:16:10 >> We are honored to be here.
09:16:25 And thank you for having us.
09:16:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
09:16:28 And give us your name so your parents know who you are on
09:16:31 >> Zachary.
09:16:34 >> Okay, sir.
09:16:35 Our pleasure.
09:16:37 We go next to public comments of 30 minutes.
09:16:45 Items on the agenda first for any item that you care to
09:16:49 speak on.
09:16:51 We start it now.
09:16:52 Yes, sir.
09:16:53 Come up.
09:16:54 There's a long line behind you.
09:16:55 >>> Pete Johnson, 510 Harrison street.
09:17:07 In news this week, just recently, there was a 14-year-old
09:17:11 child raped by a vagrant in an abandoned structure.
09:17:17 These abandoned structures have gotten out of control,
09:17:21 totally out of control.
09:17:27 On page 3, you will see two lists.
09:17:32 These are properties that have just been added that have to
09:17:36 be condemned.
09:17:39 Yet it will take two months just to get the paperwork done.
09:17:44 The other problem is, if you will look beyond that, this is
09:18:00 last year.
09:18:00 You can see they do only two or three a month, maybe four a
09:18:06 And they are working on $120,000 budget.
09:18:12 If you go back to the list, you will see how many months is
09:18:18 it going to take to get all of these condemned?
09:18:21 And how is 120,000 going to be able to cover all of these
09:18:25 when it barely covers what's on this sheet?
09:18:29 These are all documents, public information, but we have got
09:18:32 to do something.
09:18:33 We have got to step up.
09:18:34 We have got to -- and the securing and abatement of
09:18:44 It's gotten to be ridiculous.
09:18:46 And this is a public safety problem.
09:18:50 TPD can correct this.
09:18:52 The rest of the city departments need to Chip in and help
09:18:56 get this problem taken care of.
09:18:59 The funding needs to be sent to code so they can get these
09:19:03 demolished, these structures demolished and clean up the
09:19:08 Thank you.
09:19:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, next please.
09:19:21 >> While we are waiting for Mr. Tillou, yesterday I spent
09:19:24 several hours touring the neighborhood that I represent,
09:19:28 some of the neighborhoods I represent, with both Jake Slater
09:19:32 and with Dennis Rogero, and we saw many, many, many vacant
09:19:42 There's always been an issue with code enforcement, that we
09:19:47 don't have the funding, and that was painfully evident
09:19:51 So Mr. Johnson, we have talked about some of the things that
09:19:57 you brought to the council's attention, so just to let you
09:20:02 know that it's not falling on deaf ears.
09:20:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:20:10 Yes, sir.
09:20:10 >>> I'm Ed Tillou.
09:20:12 I live up in Sulphur Springs.
09:20:17 I passed some things around about what's happening in the
09:20:20 world of vehicle electrification, and what's kept that in my
09:20:25 mind is Mr. Miranda is apparently a champion of totally
09:20:32 electric vehicles, and I think there was a niche for those
09:20:36 25 to 35% of the people, quarter to a third, but you don't
09:20:40 have a lot of range, and one of the places public
09:20:45 transportation falls short on is when families take trips,
09:20:49 because all of those together become very substantial, and
09:20:55 for that reason -- the automobile would not be replaced,
09:20:58 hopefully the use of the automobile could be reduced by
09:21:02 better public transportation and such as that.
09:21:05 So, anyway, I pass that around.
09:21:08 Volkswagen is making something along the lines of the Leaf,
09:21:14 but then the next page, motorcycles moving up, and BMW has
09:21:18 something where they bring the windshield around over the
09:21:21 head which I don't know why it wasn't done a thousand years
09:21:24 ago, but that's an alternative.
09:21:28 Motorcycles are not an answer to expensive gas.
09:21:32 The larger ones -- and everybody seems to gravitate
09:21:35 toward -- they get like 40 miles to the gallon, 50 if you
09:21:39 are lucky.
09:21:41 These Harley's and everything.
09:21:43 Now I once had a small motorcycle called the Harley Davidson
09:21:48 Aermacchi, but you upgrade and that's the problem.
09:21:56 The problem is power.
09:21:57 As I brought to the attention of the county commission
09:22:00 yesterday, I was going by a half acre lot that had about 100
09:22:05 cars parked on it and I started thinking, wait a second,
09:22:07 that's the equivalent of 16,000 horses on that half acre,
09:22:12 and that is what's producing the carbon dioxide, and that's
09:22:17 a big part of why I don't think -- is going to get a handle
09:22:22 on the carbon dioxide.
09:22:23 You have to leap ahead to what is going to -- it's not a
09:22:28 half a degree a decade, which is what carbon dioxide is
09:22:33 going to produce.
09:22:34 At this time carbon dioxide will trigger methane release.
09:22:38 And something I discounted years ago and I have already
09:22:41 given around to the county commission, landfill, gas from
09:22:45 landfill, I thought this was ridiculous, but actually that's
09:22:49 what will have to be done in the years to come, if those
09:22:52 methane releases get very high, Alaska, converted into
09:22:59 electricity, and the Germans are working on that, solid fuel
09:23:03 cells for power generation.
09:23:06 So that's sort of the big picture.
09:23:08 And then in future times I'll try to get to the Ybor City
09:23:11 trees and things like that.
09:23:13 Oh, bicycles on the sidewalks.
09:23:15 (Bell sounds).
09:23:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:23:18 >> Safety out of control.
09:23:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else in the audience at this time
09:23:22 care to speak?
09:23:22 I see no one.
09:23:25 Anyone in the audience like to have any reconsideration of
09:23:29 facts for legislative matters that were passed in the
09:23:32 previous meeting?
09:23:34 I see no one.
09:23:36 We go to Public Safety Committee chair, Mr. Frank Reddick.
09:23:41 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move item 2 through 5.
09:23:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Reddick on 2-5,
09:23:47 seconded by Mr. Cohen.
09:23:49 All in favor of the motion? Opposed nay?
09:23:51 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:23:53 Parks, Recreation, Culture Committee chair Ms. Mary Mulhern.
09:23:56 >>MARY MULHERN: I move 6 through 10.
09:24:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mrs. Mulhern, second by Mr.
09:24:08 All in favor of the motion? Opposed?
09:24:10 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:24:12 Public Works Committee chair, Mr. Mike.
09:24:14 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Suarez I move items 11 and 12.
09:24:18 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
09:24:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All in favor of the motion please
09:24:21 indicate by saying aye. Opposed nay.
09:24:23 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:24:25 Finance Committee chair, Mr. Harry Cohen.
09:24:27 >>HARRY COHEN: Move items 13 through 17.
09:24:30 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
09:24:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a second by Mr. Suarez.
09:24:33 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
09:24:36 Opposed nay.
09:24:37 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:24:38 Building, Zoning and Preservation Committee, Mrs. Lisa
09:24:45 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I move 18 through 29.
09:24:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione,
09:24:50 second by Mr. Suarez.
09:24:51 All in favor of that motion?
09:24:58 Something I said?
09:25:00 >>MIKE SUAREZ: No, I dropped my pen over here.
09:25:02 Don't worry about it.
09:25:04 [ Laughter ]
09:25:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All in favor of that motion?
09:25:07 I wanted to listen again.
09:25:08 Opposed nay.
09:25:09 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:25:10 Transportation committee chair, Mrs. Yolie Capin.
09:25:15 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Move 30 through 38.
09:25:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second by Mr. Cohen on a close vote with
09:25:21 Mr. Suarez.
09:25:22 All in favor of that motion? Opposed?
09:25:25 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:25:32 We need items 39 through 41 set for public hearing.
09:25:40 >>MIKE SUAREZ: So moved.
09:25:43 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
09:25:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The ayes have it unanimously.
09:25:46 We go to -- we don't go because these are set at 9:30. They
09:25:50 are second readings for public hearing.
09:25:53 And we are going to go now to left to right, if I may, any
09:26:01 new business, information report?
09:26:07 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Yes, sir.
09:26:12 I would like to encourage any small business owners that are
09:26:15 out there listening that TEDCO has just been approved for an
09:26:23 SBA intermediary lending pilot program.
09:26:30 They are addressing small business needs.
09:26:33 And the loans are in the 15,000 to 35,000-dollar range.
09:26:38 And they are looking at setting workshops and rolling out
09:26:43 information on what the program consists of and what the
09:26:48 application requirements are.
09:26:49 But I think it's great news for our small businesses that
09:26:53 this money is now going to be available.
09:26:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:27:00 Mrs. Mulhern?
09:27:01 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to ask you to give that
09:27:03 contact information and explain what TEDCO is.
09:27:05 >>LISA MONTELIONE: You know, I was thinking of that as I
09:27:10 was speaking, but I wasn't ready for this quick
09:27:16 The TEDCO stands for the Tampa Bay economic Development
09:27:23 And I don't have the phone number, but maybe when we come
09:27:26 back around I can get my aide to get the e-mail and phone
09:27:31 number that folks can use to contact TEDCO.
09:27:34 >>HARRY COHEN: No new business.
09:27:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Shame on you.
09:27:41 I was counting on you for two minutes.
09:27:44 Ms. Mulhern?
09:27:45 >>MARY MULHERN: Sorry.
09:27:47 I will say this very slowly.
09:27:50 [ Laughter ]
09:27:50 But I don't believe that at this early time of the morning I
09:27:53 have any new business to present.
09:28:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I will remember that next time.
09:28:02 [ Laughter ]
09:28:02 Mr. Reddick.
09:28:03 >>FRANK REDDICK: None, Mr. Chair.
09:28:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Capin?
09:28:08 >>YVONNE CAPIN: All right.
09:28:08 Let me just lay in here if council will indulge me.
09:28:17 We have a workshop scheduled for November 29 on West Tampa,
09:28:25 and because of a report, I did speak to the major in charge
09:28:31 of district 1 a couple of weeks ago, and things have settled
09:28:40 down in West Tampa on Main Street.
09:28:42 I would still like a report.
09:28:45 And because of Councilman Reddick's suggestion of code
09:28:50 enforcement going in, that also helps a lot, according to
09:28:54 the major.
09:28:56 I was briefed last week on an economic plan development for
09:29:05 West Tampa by a member of the West Tampa Chamber of Commerce
09:29:09 that they have been working on this for a while.
09:29:14 And I understand that Councilman Reddick will be hosting a
09:29:17 community meeting in December.
09:29:22 So I would like those things to take place before we have
09:29:25 the workshop to be more comprehensive.
09:29:27 So I was thinking in January for the workshop.
09:29:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Reschedule the workshop.
09:29:40 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
09:29:41 For the 31st.
09:29:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Do you want to move that out now to
09:29:48 January 31st?
09:29:52 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
09:29:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What time?
09:29:54 >>YVONNE CAPIN: 9 a.m. we have a workshop.
09:29:57 Electric signs.
09:29:57 I guess we could do 10 a.m.
09:30:01 >> 9:30 30th maybe.
09:30:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The workshop you originally scheduled was
09:30:06 for November 29.
09:30:08 Mrs. Capin's motion is to change it from the 29th to the
09:30:16 31st of January 2013 at 9:30.
09:30:18 I have a second by Mrs. Mulhern.
09:30:20 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
09:30:23 Opposed nay.
09:30:23 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:30:39 >>YVONNE CAPIN: The community meeting Councilman Reddick
09:30:44 will be helping host is at West Tampa library.
09:30:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.
09:30:52 Thank you both very much.
09:30:53 Anything else?
09:31:00 >>YVONNE CAPIN: No.
09:31:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm waiting for her.
09:31:03 Mr. Suarez?
09:31:04 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair.
09:31:06 I just have a couple items.
09:31:09 Let's see what the time is.
09:31:10 Okay, I'll make it as quick as possible.
09:31:13 I request that council approve a commendation to local
09:31:16 winners of the 2012 countywide community waterwise awards.
09:31:21 Competition was created to recognize those who are committed
09:31:24 to conserving our water resources and protecting the
09:31:26 environment by using attractive Florida friendly
09:31:29 landscaping, and our two winners from Tampa are WMNF radio
09:31:35 in the commercial business category, and Mr. Steve Tony in
09:31:41 the residential category, and we want to have that presented
09:31:44 on October 25th.
09:31:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Suarez.
09:31:47 I have a second by Mrs. Montelione.
09:31:49 All in favor of the motion? Opposed nay?
09:31:52 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:31:54 I need a council member to help me out a little bit, make a
09:31:58 commendation for the honorable former mayor Dick Greco.
09:32:02 Dick is being honored tomorrow evening at the university
09:32:09 Motion by Mr. Cohen.
09:32:12 Second by Ms. Mulhern on an extremely close vote, nose at
09:32:17 the wire, Mr. Suarez.
09:32:18 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
09:32:21 Opposed nay.
09:32:22 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:32:24 Well, I'm trying to get to my --
09:32:28 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I have the contact information.
09:32:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I appreciate it very much.
09:32:31 Let's hear it.
09:32:32 >>LISA MONTELIONE: The contact information for the Tampa
09:32:34 Bay economic Development Corporation is E.J. McCarter or
09:32:42 Steven lane.
09:32:42 The phone number is 813-831-8600.
09:32:50 So anyone trying to advance their small business, please
09:32:55 contact TEDCO for more information on their small business
09:33:01 lending pilot program.
09:33:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: At one time they were located in the
09:33:05 German American club.
09:33:07 >>LISA MONTELIONE: That was many years ago, and I know,
09:33:11 because I was there way back when but now located at 2907
09:33:18 west Bay to Bay Boulevard suite 303.
09:33:22 I do have one other announcement in that the north Tampa
09:33:25 community vision plan meeting is tonight.
09:33:31 You can join us at the Yuengling brewery community room on
09:33:34 30th street.
09:33:37 And we won't be sampling any Yuengling, but we will be doing
09:33:43 important business for the community plan.
09:33:45 So please join us from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. for that north
09:33:50 Tampa community vision plan.
09:33:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is that the name of a panda?
09:33:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Oh, Yuengling?
09:34:00 I don't know what the origin is.
09:34:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else?
09:34:03 I'm trying to find another two minutes.
09:34:05 >>FRANK REDDICK: Yes, Mr. Chairman, I am going to request
09:34:15 someone from administration to report to the council on a
09:34:23 staff report at our November 1st regular meeting on the
09:34:31 status of whether lane park is a city-owned park or is it a
09:34:39 private park?
09:34:40 Because I have seen a lease agreement that was signed back
09:34:44 in 2003 where a nonprofit agency has total control over fees
09:34:53 on that park.
09:34:54 So want clarification, if someone from administration -- and
09:35:01 go back to 2003 or someone in the current recreation that
09:35:05 can come before City Council and let us know whether that's
09:35:07 a private park or city owned park.
09:35:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seconded by Mr. Suarez.
09:35:12 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
09:35:14 Opposed nay.
09:35:15 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:35:16 Yes, sir.
09:35:17 Anything else?
09:35:17 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I was just going to suggest that Saturday
09:35:25 they are having a memorial for Congressman Gibbons, Saturday
09:35:31 at 11 a.m., just a celebration of his life and everything
09:35:34 he's done for the city.
09:35:35 So those folks that want to attend should.
09:35:38 And hopefully, there's supposed to be a lot of very famous
09:35:43 people there, including maybe even former President Clinton,
09:35:48 a lot of folks.
09:35:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
09:35:58 Thank you for getting me to the 9:30.
09:36:00 I appreciate it very much.
09:36:01 Mr. Cohen?
09:36:02 >>HARRY COHEN: I did remember one thing I wanted to remind
09:36:05 We are presenting a commendation this Saturday at 2:30 in
09:36:09 the afternoon at the Port Tampa library, celebrating its
09:36:14 designation on the national register of historic places.
09:36:17 We will be celebrating by giving a commendation both to the
09:36:21 civic association there and to the colonial dames of the
09:36:25 17th century that arranged for the award.
09:36:27 So I would just encourage other council members to come and
09:36:30 receive the plaque, the bronze plaque that's going to be
09:36:34 unveiled and join the community in celebrating.
09:36:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Cohen.
09:36:38 But I was not there in the 17th century. I was close
09:36:42 but not there.
09:36:43 Thank you very much.
09:36:45 We'll do this again at the end of the meeting.
09:36:47 At 9:30 we have public hearings.
09:36:50 I have a motion to open the public hearings 42 through 43.
09:36:54 Motion by Mr. Suarez.
09:36:55 Second by Mr. Reddick.
09:36:57 All in favor of that motion indicate by saying aye.
09:37:00 Opposed nay.
09:37:00 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:37:03 These hearings are open.
09:37:04 We go to 42.
09:37:06 This is the second reading on an ordinance for the City of
09:37:14 Anyone here to make a presentation on this?
09:37:16 Anyone in the audience care to speak on item number 42?
09:37:21 I see no one.
09:37:26 I have a motion to close by Mr. Reddick, second by Mr.
09:37:29 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
09:37:32 Opposed nay.
09:37:32 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:37:33 Mr. Suarez, would you kindly take number 42?
09:37:36 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I would defer to Yolie Capin if that's okay.
09:37:45 >>YVONNE CAPIN: An ordinance being presented for second
09:37:46 reading and adoption, an ordinance of the city of Tampa,
09:37:49 Florida amending City of Tampa code of ordinances, chapter
09:37:52 12, article V, by creating section 12-127, recognition of
09:37:58 domestic partnerships registered in other jurisdictions,
09:38:02 revising sections 12-124 and 12-126 to correct scrivener's
09:38:10 errors setting forth erroneous internal section references,
09:38:15 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
09:38:17 providing for severability, providing an effective date.
09:38:20 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
09:38:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is a second reading.
09:38:25 Motion for approval by Ms. Capin, second by Mr. Cohen, so it
09:38:29 is a roll call vote.
09:38:31 Vote and record.
09:38:32 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:38:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
09:38:51 Item number 43.
09:38:52 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
09:38:56 At the first reading on this item I was able to get in touch
09:38:59 with the department of business and professional regulations
09:39:04 on pari-mutuel wagering, and see if anybody could come down
09:39:07 and discuss that with us.
09:39:09 They are up in Tallahassee so I couldn't get anybody to come
09:39:12 down, but the woman that I did speak to there -- and I was
09:39:18 not able to reach general counsel's office although I made
09:39:24 an attempt, the department of business regulation is they
09:39:27 don't believe the simulated gaming devices are legal, they
09:39:30 think they are illegal under Florida statutes.
09:39:32 However, they recognize that the Florida legislature has not
09:39:35 made that clear.
09:39:36 They also recognize that many jurisdictions are taking up
09:39:39 different regulatory schemes, and that there is pending
09:39:42 litigation on this matter.
09:39:44 So that's why at this point they haven't taken any action,
09:39:46 and they are not intending to take any action.
09:39:49 As such, I believe still that this idea of doing our
09:39:53 temporary abatement ordinance would allow us time to discuss
09:39:56 potential regulations within the City of Tampa in line with
09:39:59 some of the other jurisdictions that have regulated these
09:40:02 types of gaming, but it would also provide us an opportunity
09:40:06 to see how the Florida courts are going to deal with some of
09:40:10 the pending litigation that's going on.
09:40:11 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Ms. Mandell -- I was going to say Ms. Cole
09:40:18 again --
09:40:19 >> I'll answer to any.
09:40:21 >> Essentially what you are saying is we are filling the
09:40:24 void until the state legislature, if and when they decide to
09:40:28 start regulating these types of operations -- if we put the
09:40:34 temporary order in place, and then the legislature
09:40:36 obviously, if they do pass something, that abatement order,
09:40:40 even though it's going to have a time frame, is still going
09:40:43 to be whatever that time frame is, depending on when it
09:40:45 starts, we are going to -- that's going to go away then,
09:40:49 Depending on what the legislature says?
09:40:54 >>JULIA MANDELL: What I was saying is the Department of
09:40:56 Business Professional Regulation is taking the position that
09:40:58 local government has the ability and authority to bridge
09:41:01 that gap until the Florida legislature takes action or
09:41:06 courts take action, but it's their position, the position of
09:41:09 that agency, the simulated gaming devices are not legal,
09:41:15 that they are gambling under Florida statute, but
09:41:15 recognizing that's not a federal issue.
09:41:17 What I'm saying is that we are in the process -- and with
09:41:21 the temporary abatement -- of looking at our options in
09:41:23 terms of regulation, there is nothing at this point in time
09:41:26 that prohibits us from doing that, and I think that was the
09:41:29 intention with the temporary abatement to allow us that
09:41:32 It also allows us the opportunity to see either what kind of
09:41:36 pending legislation comes forth or what happens with the
09:41:40 court proceedings, but until any of that happens I can only
09:41:44 tell what you the legal position is today, which is I
09:41:45 believe we have the right to regulate this type of use, and
09:41:49 the temporary abatement is legally sufficient to allow us
09:41:52 time to review all of our options in terms of regulation.
09:41:56 Whatever else happens, certainly might have an impact on
09:41:58 what we ultimately do, and I would have the opportunity to
09:42:03 review that and let now legally if my position is changing.
09:42:06 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Is department of business and professional
09:42:11 regulation the only state agency you think that would have
09:42:13 any kind of purview over this type of use?
09:42:18 >>JULIA MANDELL: Under Florida statute, yes.
09:42:20 The only other agency that could have some say is the
09:42:23 Department of Agriculture under consumer services.
09:42:28 But at this point, it hasn't gotten to that place yet, and
09:42:31 really it's going to depend on whether or not any of the
09:42:35 agencies decide to take a position on this matter, a formal
09:42:38 position, and proceed forward with some action.
09:42:41 At this point, they are not doing that.
09:42:43 But they still do feel that they don't believe it's Florida
09:42:51 statutes which prohibited gambling, under the definition of
09:42:55 gambling, but as I said, it recognizes at this point there
09:42:59 is nothing to prohibit the local government from using local
09:43:04 My legal position that I brought to you three weeks ago,
09:43:08 that I previously brought to you is the jurisdiction of the
09:43:11 city to regulate such gaming devices stands at this point.
09:43:14 However, I will continue to monitor it, especially during
09:43:17 the temporary abatement time frame, as well as we are
09:43:20 developing any regulations to move forward, and I believe
09:43:22 there's a workshop scheduled in December for me to bring you
09:43:26 back some points of discussion.
09:43:29 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I would like to make a motion as part of
09:43:33 that workshop, in addition bring forward one part of it, and
09:43:37 I think during our last discussion some of the alcohol use
09:43:41 and some of the special use -- and this is just an antidotal
09:43:46 piece of evidence -- but I think that one of those places is
09:43:49 serving liquor.
09:43:50 I'm not sure that they meet some of our requirements.
09:43:55 I don't know if they were supposed to do that and now they
09:43:58 have become an Internet cafe or whatever.
09:44:01 I would like to do some research on that, maybe bring that
09:44:04 >>JULIA MANDELL: We can look at that going forward.
09:44:07 I will tell you as it stands today -- and also under the way
09:44:10 the temporary abatement is drafted -- it's not that you
09:44:13 cannot have an Internet cafe -- and I think it's good to
09:44:18 clear that up for the record in case anybody wants to
09:44:20 understand what we have done.
09:44:20 This does not prohibit Internet cafes, this temporary
09:44:25 There is under our regulations as it stands today the right
09:44:27 to have an Internet cafe in certain commercial districts,
09:44:31 and within those commercial districts you have the right to
09:44:33 request an alcohol special use permit.
09:44:35 What this temporary abatement does is prohibit the use of
09:44:39 the machinery within the Internet cafe for these simulated
09:44:43 gaming devices.
09:44:44 >> And you are making my point, but the other way around,
09:44:48 which is if you are a place that already serves alcohol, I
09:44:52 want to find out if there are any places like that that
09:44:54 currently doing these types of activities.
09:44:57 And that's part of the workshop, okay?
09:45:00 >>JULIA MANDELL: Now I understand better, so we'll go ahead
09:45:03 and make sure that we can report to you if there has been
09:45:05 any Internet cafes or similarly situated uses which has the
09:45:10 potential to have simulated gaming devices that have also
09:45:13 received a special use permit for alcohol.
09:45:17 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
09:45:18 Thank you.
09:45:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have Ms. Capin and then Mrs.
09:45:27 We are going to vote.
09:45:28 And I am already getting confused.
09:45:31 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you for that.
09:45:35 If the legislature does decide to move on this, that would
09:45:39 supersede anything anyone is doing.
09:45:42 >>JULIA MANDELL: I can't answer that without seeing what
09:45:45 the Florida legislature does.
09:45:47 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Well, that's my question.
09:45:48 If they do --
09:45:49 >>JULIA MANDELL: It depends on what they do.
09:45:52 R it really depends on what it is they do and how they
09:45:56 formulate whatever legislation comes in to play.
09:46:00 There could be a potential preemption there.
09:46:03 There could not be.
09:46:04 But until we know exactly what the legislature intends to
09:46:07 do, I can't tell you that it would on its face, just because
09:46:13 the Florida legislature takes action that would on its face
09:46:16 preempt us, without seeing what it is they do.
09:46:19 They may limit certain things.
09:46:21 It's really difficult for me to answer that question without
09:46:23 having more understanding of what could happen.
09:46:25 And it's likely there will be discussion in Tallahassee.
09:46:30 Whether or not they actually take action is always another
09:46:34 So that's why I say as I stand here today my legal position
09:46:39 remains the same as it was three weeks ago and as it was
09:46:43 when I discussed this with you previously, but that legal
09:46:47 position could change during this time frame, until we have
09:46:51 a better understanding of what happens, and with any kind of
09:46:56 court action.
09:46:58 If some cases come out, it might affect my legal advice to
09:47:02 But my legal advice today with the temporary abatement and
09:47:05 with the proposal that we had been discussing in terms of
09:47:08 regulating the use of simulated gaming devices within the
09:47:12 City of Tampa, as I stand here today, I am comfortable
09:47:15 legally with moving forward.
09:47:18 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
09:47:19 The other thing was as far as the alcohol, if there is an
09:47:22 establishment that does have alcohol permitting, and besides
09:47:30 the simulated gaming, if the zoning is correct, then that
09:47:36 can be done, up until this goes into place?
09:47:42 >>JULIA MANDELL: Any Internet cafe or any establishment
09:47:45 that has a legal right to get alcohol use, that's why this
09:47:49 temporary abatement only affects the uses of the machine for
09:47:52 the simulated gaming devices, not the opportunity to have an
09:47:57 Internet cafe.
09:47:59 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
09:47:59 Very good.
09:48:00 Thank you.
09:48:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Montelione.
09:48:02 >>LISA MONTELIONE: There's already a place doing that.
09:48:07 Yesterday when I was touring the neighborhoods with code
09:48:10 enforcement, with Jake Slater and with Dennis Rogero, there
09:48:15 are two Internet sweepstakes cafes directly across the
09:48:19 street from one another on Busch Boulevard.
09:48:24 One of them is -- both of them -- okay, both of them are
09:48:30 located in storefronts that previously were barred.
09:48:37 So both of those Internet cafes are in locations that
09:48:44 already are zoned for alcohol sales.
09:48:50 And when you come back with recommendations, I want to look
09:48:55 at the proximity the same as we do for alcoholic beverage
09:49:02 establishments, proximity to one another, and the change of
09:49:10 So it was really -- if you go by these places, they are not
09:49:16 the kind of places that I even would consider going in to
09:49:20 have a look around.
09:49:23 And it was very disturbing.
09:49:24 >>JULIA MANDELL: And that is on my list already to bring
09:49:29 back to you as a recommendation on either some kind of
09:49:32 limitation about proximity to each other, proximity to other
09:49:37 types of uses, those kinds of things.
09:49:39 >> The point was really driven home yesterday, I have got to
09:49:42 Thank you.
09:49:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other council member that has not
09:49:45 Let me just say this.
09:49:47 Technology changes so quickly and so rapidly.
09:49:51 When you start addressing these things -- and I'm not trying
09:49:54 to guide you in any way -- but you have to understand that
09:49:58 what can these machines do in five years or in ten years?
09:50:04 If some offshore gambling operation in Cambodia or Costa
09:50:08 Rica or some island in the Caribbean decides to send some
09:50:12 signal in here with some other form of gaming, what does
09:50:16 that do, and where is that going to leave the city, and who
09:50:20 is going to provide the safety and welfare for the citizens?
09:50:25 I understand about the alcohol.
09:50:27 But I also understand that there's not one place that I know
09:50:32 of right now that has legalized gambling that doesn't serve
09:50:38 All of them do.
09:50:38 There's not one of those places that doesn't have other
09:50:42 forms of gambling.
09:50:43 There's not one of those places that doesn't have an
09:50:46 entertainment center.
09:50:47 There's not one of those places that doesn't have a fine
09:50:50 Now, they are so fine that I don't go because they are too
09:50:55 But what I am trying to say is that it's incumbent upon the
09:50:59 city and the legal staff to make sure that whatever is
09:51:01 passed is narrowed down to as much as possible.
09:51:04 Sometimes you narrow it down too much, and the courts find
09:51:07 it unappealing to the rights of the citizens, that it be
09:51:12 done and be done in a mannerism that we can control it.
09:51:15 These things will get out of hand.
09:51:18 Once they have the door open and one step in, then the next
09:51:21 thing is, let's have this, let's have that, let's have this,
09:51:25 let's have more, and all the ones that I have just mentioned
09:51:28 without mentioning them by name started out with one type
09:51:31 form of gambling, and now they have multiple layers of
09:51:35 But that's -- the decision is going to have to be borne by
09:51:39 the legal department upon presentation of some other
09:51:42 ordinance, and I agree with the six months, which coincides
09:51:46 coincidentally, and I say clearly coincidentally, but the
09:51:49 legislature meets in the early part of the year, but even if
09:51:52 the laws are passed, they are not enforced in July or
09:51:55 November depending on their time frame.
09:51:57 But thank you very much.
09:51:58 And I appreciate it.
09:52:01 All right.
09:52:01 This ordinance has not been read, am I correct?
09:52:04 Mrs. Capin?
09:52:08 >> You have a motion on the floor.
09:52:09 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I had a motion to discuss --
09:52:12 >>YVONNE CAPIN: An amendment to the workshop.
09:52:17 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Just add it onto the workshop.
09:52:21 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I second that.
09:52:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: A motion -- original motion was made by
09:52:25 Mr. Suarez, seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
09:52:27 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
09:52:29 Opposed nay.
09:52:30 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:52:32 Ms. Capin, the other one, I apologize to you, 43 also was
09:52:39 I'll let you read that one also.
09:52:41 >>YVONNE CAPIN: An ordinance being presented for second
09:52:43 reading an adoption, imposing a temporary abatement on the
09:52:46 operation and use of simulated gaming devices for use by the
09:52:50 public in any premises, providing for definitions, providing
09:52:54 for a six-month temporary abatement, providing for
09:52:58 exemptions, providing for severability, providing for
09:53:00 enforcement and providing for effective date.
09:53:02 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
09:53:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: On 43 we did open and I got a little off
09:53:09 I apologize to the public.
09:53:10 My fault.
09:53:11 And I forgot to ask if anyone in the public cares to speak
09:53:14 on item number 43.
09:53:15 I see no one.
09:53:16 I need a motion to close by Mr. Reddick, seconded by Mr.
09:53:21 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
09:53:24 Opposed nay.
09:53:24 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:53:25 I am going to ask you to read it again being legal.
09:53:29 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Not a problem.
09:53:30 Thank you.
09:53:31 An ordinance being presented for second reading and
09:53:33 adoption, an imposing a temporary abatement on the operation
09:53:37 and use of system outed gaming devices for use by the public
09:53:41 in any premises, providing for definitions, providing for a
09:53:44 six-month temporary abatement, providing for exemptions,
09:53:47 providing for severability, providing for enforcement and
09:53:50 providing an effective date.
09:53:51 >> Second.
09:53:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Ms. Capin, seconded by
09:53:56 Mr. Cohen.
09:53:57 All in favor of the motion?
09:53:58 Roll call vote.
09:53:59 Vote and record.
09:54:05 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:54:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We go now to 9:30 public hearings.
09:54:20 These are quasi-judicial.
09:54:22 Anyone that's going to speak on 44 and 45 shall be sworn in.
09:54:26 So if you will speak, thinking of speaking, please stand and
09:54:29 raise your right hand.
09:54:30 (Oath administered by Clerk)
09:54:40 >>HARRY COHEN: Move to open items 454th 4 and 45.
09:54:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seconded by Mr. Suarez on a close vote
09:54:46 with Mrs. Montelione.
09:54:47 All in favor of the motion?
09:54:49 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:54:50 Yes, sir.
09:54:50 >> Ron Buhler, staff, preservation, 44, tax ad valorem
09:54:59 application for the address of 905 North Florida Avenue.
09:55:02 It's a local designated landmark better known as Floridan
09:55:07 hotel owned by Antonakos Floridan LLC.
09:55:15 I have a photo presentation but Mr. Dennis Fernandez wishes
09:55:19 to address the council with some brief history.
09:55:27 >>DENNIS FERNANDEZ: Historic preservation manager.
09:55:28 The Floridan hotel was opened in 1927, designed by Francis
09:55:34 J. Kinnard, a very well-known architect in Florida who also
09:55:37 designed the Centro Espanol in Ybor City, and also saint
09:55:42 Andrews Episcopal just down the road from here.
09:55:44 Originally had 426 rooms, 19 stories tall, designed in
09:55:51 Georgian revival style, very popular design during the early
09:55:55 20th century when steel frame structures were becoming
09:55:59 predominant, in Chicago and then spreading throughout the
09:56:03 This particular building for many, many years was the
09:56:06 tallest building in the eastern part of the United States,
09:56:09 and in the City of Tampa was the tallest building until 1966
09:56:12 when the national bank opened up.
09:56:16 It was known for its exquisite settings, its fine service,
09:56:21 most notably with crystal dining room and sapphire room,
09:56:27 attracted many famous individuals who stayed there and
09:56:29 visited including Babe Ruth, Gary Cooper, Charlton Heston,
09:56:34 and in 1955 Elvis Presley stayed there after performing at
09:56:37 the Fort Homerly armory.
09:56:41 In the 1960s it began to decline, eventually closing in
09:56:44 1989, due to fire issues, was in a state of disrepair.
09:56:51 I'm sure we can all remember the declining condition, and
09:56:54 obviously a big point of concern for the preservation
09:56:57 It's listed on the national register of historic places and
09:57:00 is a locally landmark as mentioned.
09:57:07 One thing to keep in mind, while looking at the pictures
09:57:10 this morning is that Mr. Tony Markopoulos came forward, and
09:57:23 through his investment and dedication we are going to see
09:57:26 the product of his effort today.
09:57:28 Also, to keep in mind the programs like the ad valorem tax
09:57:32 exemption and the federal historic tax credit allow for
09:57:36 projects like this to take place and to make economic sense.
09:57:41 So we are very happy to be able to offer that program and
09:57:43 see the results of that this morning.
09:57:45 Thank you.
09:57:49 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I would like to let you know along with
09:57:51 Elvis and Babe Ruth, Amelia -- my parents honeymooned there
09:58:00 back in the 40s.
09:58:03 >>DENNIS FERNANDEZ: Thank you.
09:58:03 I'll add that in the report.
09:58:05 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
09:58:06 [ Laughter ]
09:58:09 >> Through all that history that Dennis spoke very nice, the
09:58:13 photo presentation will aid in the impact that this has in
09:58:17 the downtown area.
09:58:18 This photo is from 1925.
09:58:20 Obviously it's during the construction era.
09:58:22 It was completed in '26.
09:58:27 This is an early photo of the development.
09:58:31 It's a three-part building with a base, with the metal part
09:58:35 of the shaft and the top.
09:58:40 This is a shot looking down Florida Avenue toward the north.
09:58:45 You see the building in the background.
09:58:46 You see that it rises from the ground as no other building
09:58:50 around there.
09:58:50 And in the foreground, you have the federal courthouse.
09:58:54 And these are two prominent buildings that existed back in
09:58:57 the day that are still there currently, and the courthouse
09:59:00 is currently in front of the Architectural Review Commission
09:59:03 to do an adaptive reuse to change that building into a hotel
09:59:06 as well.
09:59:12 When Mr. Markopoulos bought the building, this dates back to
09:59:17 You see the condition in the building.
09:59:19 You see the background symbolic of the condition of the
09:59:29 This is just a little tighter shot, the boarded up windows,
09:59:32 and just the neglect of the building at that time.
09:59:40 This is a shot of the building just of a completion in the
09:59:43 late 20s showing one of the main entrances.
09:59:48 And how it looks today.
09:59:51 After completion.
09:59:53 Many hard months and years to get to this point.
09:59:58 Moving to the interior, you see the volume of the lobby, the
10:00:06 two-story volume there and you see the main lobby with the
10:00:09 front desk with a base on the column, the carpeted areas to
10:00:14 invite the guests to sit and enjoy the lobby area.
10:00:19 Moving to the dining room, this is a later shot, shows 1954
10:00:28 here but still maintaining a low of the historic character.
10:00:33 And then Mr. Markopoulos, the further decay of the ceilings
10:00:49 in the lobby area.
10:00:51 Moving to some current photos.
10:00:57 Trying to recreate the setting of the tables, the
10:01:01 You see the carpet on the flooring and the columns.
10:01:04 In the background you see some inlays on the wall.
10:01:09 Here is looking from the mezzanine back down to the lobby,
10:01:16 the lighting, the ceiling that was re-created.
10:01:21 This is just a tighter shot of the ceiling prior to
10:01:25 And then moving to the feature in the lobby area.
10:01:33 This is pulling back a little bit.
10:01:43 You can understand what it looks like today.
10:01:44 Moving to the upper floors.
10:01:47 This is one of the corridors.
10:01:54 And with the split shot here, the guests come in and how
10:02:00 they could experience leading to their rooms.
10:02:05 And to conclude, going back to the historic shot, you can
10:02:10 see how it rises up around everything that is in the near
10:02:14 vicinity and the importance of the structure.
10:02:20 And how it appears today.
10:02:22 That concludes the photo presentation part.
10:02:26 The owner's representative is here and wishes to address the
10:02:31 board at this time.
10:02:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone in the audience that cares to come
10:02:33 up, please come up at this time.
10:02:35 This is a hearing.
10:02:36 >>> Thank you, council.
10:02:39 My name is Lisa Chastain, 905 Florida Avenue, at the hotel.
10:02:47 First of all, I just wanted to spell Tony Markopoulos' last
10:02:51 name. It's M-A-R-K-O-P-O-U-L-O-S.
10:02:58 I know that's a tough one to hear.
10:03:00 But we wanted to thank the council and thank the city and
10:03:03 particularly the historic preservation department for the
10:03:08 continued and very hard work and very detailed work that
10:03:12 they did.
10:03:13 There were so many people, Thom Snelling, many, many people
10:03:18 who were involved in facilitating our path through the
10:03:25 restoration process so it really was a team effort.
10:03:28 The hotel is a structure that has been known and loved by
10:03:32 many, many people in the community, and Ms. Capin, as she
10:03:38 points out, so many people have history there.
10:03:41 We encourage the community to be part of it, to share their
10:03:45 history with us, if they would like to share a copy of an
10:03:48 old photo or even a recount of somebody's parents'
10:03:52 experiences or something there.
10:03:54 We would love to hear from that because we thank the
10:03:56 community for its support, and we do believe that it is a
10:03:59 community project as well.
10:04:01 So thank you from the bottom of our hearts.
10:04:03 And we really appreciate everything you have done to help us
10:04:05 with this project.
10:04:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:04:11 Anyone else care to speak on this item, item number 44?
10:04:15 I have a motion to close by Mr. Suarez.
10:04:16 Seconded by Ms. Montelione.
10:04:21 Ms. Mulhern has the floor.
10:04:23 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to thank our historic
10:04:27 preservation staff, and zoning and land use, and especially
10:04:32 Mr. Markopoulos and Mrs. Chastain.
10:04:42 I got to go through it when you were midway through
10:04:45 renovations and I could not believe the amount of work that
10:04:48 Mr. Markopoulos was doing himself.
10:04:50 It was just incredible.
10:04:52 So the building is beautiful.
10:04:54 The restaurant is beautiful.
10:04:59 My lunch bill was really good so I definitely recommend it.
10:05:02 And I'm just thrilled.
10:05:05 It's just a wonderful thing for Tampa.
10:05:07 So congratulations to everyone that made this happen.
10:05:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
10:05:15 We closed the hearing, right?
10:05:18 Mr. Suarez, would you kindly take number 44?
10:05:21 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair.
10:05:22 I move an ordinance being presented for second reading and
10:05:25 adoption, an ordinance approving an historic preservation
10:05:28 property tax exemption application relative to the
10:05:31 restoration, renovation or rehabilitation of certain
10:05:34 property owned by Antonakos Floridan, LLC, located at 905
10:05:44 North Florida Avenue Tampa, Florida and is a designated
10:05:48 local landmark based upon certain findings providing for
10:05:51 notice to the property appraiser of Hillsborough County,
10:05:53 providing for severability, providing for repeal of all
10:05:56 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
10:05:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: A motion by Mr. Suarez, second by Mrs.
10:06:03 This is a roll call vote.
10:06:05 Vote and record.
10:06:09 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Capin being
10:06:14 absent at vote.
10:06:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:06:21 Item number 45.
10:06:22 >> Joel Sousa, Land Development Coordination.
10:06:33 V-12-265 certified by the zoning administrator.
10:06:36 And submitted to the clerk's office.
10:06:39 Staff is here for any questions.
10:06:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is petitioner here?
10:06:42 Anyone care to speak?
10:06:44 Come forward, please.
10:06:44 >>> Grace Yang, Gray Robinson, 401 East Jackson Street,
10:06:53 Tampa, Florida, for the petitioner.
10:06:56 Happy to answer any remaining questions you might have.
10:06:58 We did make the changes requested by council for this
10:07:01 restaurant on Davis Island.
10:07:02 And we would appreciate your support.
10:07:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:07:05 Anyone in the audience care to speak on this item, item
10:07:08 number 45, 45?
10:07:10 I see no one.
10:07:12 Motion to close by Mr. Reddick, seconded by Mr. Cohen.
10:07:14 All in favor of the motion?
10:07:16 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:07:18 Mr. Reddick, would you kindly take number 45, please?
10:07:21 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move an ordinance being presented for
10:07:24 second reading and adoption, an ordinance approving a
10:07:26 special use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales,
10:07:30 restaurant, on premises only, and making lawful the sale of
10:07:35 beverages regardless of alcoholic content, beer, wine and
10:07:39 liquor on that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at
10:07:43 304 East Davis Boulevard, suite E, Tampa, Florida as more
10:07:47 particularly described in section 2, that all orphans or
10:07:50 parts of ordinances in conflict are repealed, providing an
10:07:53 effective date.
10:07:55 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
10:07:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Reddick, second by
10:07:59 Mr. Suarez.
10:08:00 This is a roll call vote.
10:08:02 Vote and record.
10:08:02 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Capin being absent at
10:08:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:08:15 We go to the 10:00 staff reports.
10:08:19 And unfinished business.
10:08:21 We have 46.
10:08:31 >>HARRY COHEN: Move the resolution.
10:08:33 >>FRANK REDDICK: Second.
10:08:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is giving the public opportunity.
10:08:45 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:08:48 47 and 48 were taken care of in the addendum.
10:08:54 Ms. Duncan I see in the audience.
10:08:56 >>JEAN DUNCAN: Transportation division.
10:09:00 I believe you all have in your packet the report I provided
10:09:06 to council on improvements in planning for the intersection
10:09:09 of 34th and Chelsea.
10:09:12 If you don't have that handy I have a few extra copies here
10:09:15 if you like.
10:09:29 Council requested that the transportation division take a
10:09:31 look to see what additional improvements could be made at
10:09:34 the intersection of Chelsea and 34th street.
10:09:38 We went out and analyzed and observed the intersection again
10:09:44 and have a number of recommendations that we are proposing.
10:09:49 If I can put this on the Elmo.
10:09:57 This will give you a visual.
10:10:00 We are proposing to install two intersection warning sign
10:10:06 assemblies on 34th street.
10:10:08 These will have an amber flasher on the top that are solar
10:10:14 The intersection displayed as well as the Chelsea street
10:10:18 plate below.
10:10:19 And we are expecting that these will give those drivers on
10:10:22 34th street an additional warning that they are
10:10:25 approaching an intersection where there is traffic crossing,
10:10:29 and there is not a signal located.
10:10:31 We are also going to be placing additional speed limit signs
10:10:35 on 34th street, four additional signs, even though the
10:10:39 posted speed limit within the City of Tampa is 30 miles an
10:10:42 hour unless otherwise posted, we are placing four additional
10:10:46 30 mile-an-hour speed limit signs to reinforce the drivers
10:10:50 on 34th street that that is the speed limit along this
10:10:58 We did implement improvements back in 2010 which was
10:11:01 summarized in this report for your information.
10:11:05 Those improvements included signage upgrades, reflective
10:11:10 pavement markers, stop bar refreshing, vegetation removal.
10:11:15 We took a look at the accident data out of this intersection
10:11:19 over the last three years between 2008 and 2010.
10:11:23 There had been seven crashes, one very bad crash we all can
10:11:28 And since 2011 when we implemented these additional
10:11:33 upgrades, we have only had one accident which occurred back
10:11:36 in July.
10:11:38 I did get some good news yesterday afternoon from the
10:11:41 Department of Transportation as well that is not in your
10:11:45 They have some funding available that they have offered to
10:11:47 us for what's called a road safety audit.
10:11:51 We are going to take advantage of that and include this
10:11:54 particular intersection in our request to them for
10:11:56 additional study.
10:11:59 We'll have a very renowned individual from Tallahassee come
10:12:01 down with his team and evaluate this intersection to see if
10:12:04 there's anything that can be done additionally in terms of
10:12:09 engineering, but enforcement and education as well.
10:12:12 If you have any questions, I would be glad to answer those.
10:12:15 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10:12:23 Did you give any consideration to putting a traffic light at
10:12:26 that corner?
10:12:30 >>JEAN DUNCAN: Yes, sir.
10:12:31 We conducted what called a traffic warrant study, basically
10:12:35 a set of criteria to determine whether or not a traffic
10:12:37 signal is appropriate.
10:12:43 It is policy and our guidelines to put traffic devices out
10:12:46 on the road that are the least restrictive but provide the
10:12:49 most safety to our motorists.
10:12:51 And that particular intersection does not meet those
10:12:54 criteria that would be required for a traffic signal.
10:12:57 As I said, we are going to have the additional road safety
10:12:59 audit done to see if there's some other modifications or
10:13:03 upgrades or improvements we can do beyond what I am
10:13:07 proposing for today.
10:13:07 >>FRANK REDDICK: The reason I say that is if you are
10:13:12 traveling east or traveling west on Chelsea and you come to
10:13:16 the fork, the problem is that people pull to that
10:13:24 If they are looking north or if they are looking south, they
10:13:28 have at times difficult time, they have to pull out so far
10:13:32 onto 34th, even seeing traffic on north and south, and
10:13:38 that's where these accidents were taking place, because they
10:13:42 have to pull out into the road, intersection, and that's why
10:13:47 I was hoping strong consideration would be given to a
10:13:54 traffic light and placed there so that they have to stop at
10:13:59 that light, and then move forward once the light changed to
10:14:04 Because as long as they still have that problem where they
10:14:10 have to pull out onto 34th, where you are on Chelsea
10:14:15 going east or west, you are going to have a problem, because
10:14:20 as those cars driving north and south, by the time they see
10:14:23 the car that pulled out onto 34th, it's too late.
10:14:27 And the latest accident that took place, the one you speak
10:14:33 of in July, it was the primary reason for that, because the
10:14:36 person pulled out trying to see, but there are buildings
10:14:40 there, the poles -- they can't see around.
10:14:43 And that is causing the problem.
10:14:47 So with this study that you are speaking of with
10:14:51 transportation, I'm hoping they will give great
10:14:54 consideration to putting a light there.
10:14:56 Because that's what it needed.
10:15:04 These signs, we got speed signs 30 miles per hour out there
10:15:08 now, and that is not helping.
10:15:14 I mean, putting flashers -- that problem is not going to
10:15:21 help much because they still got to go out.
10:15:23 And as long as they got to go out on that intersection to
10:15:29 see around those poles and see around those buildings, they
10:15:32 are going to still be a problem.
10:15:36 So I would strongly recommend that you all give great
10:15:39 consideration to putting a traffic light there, or else we
10:15:44 will be back here in another year talking about the same
10:15:46 >>JEAN DUNCAN: We'll certainly take that under strong
10:15:51 And as I do, we do try to stick with the national guidelines
10:15:55 for traffic signals.
10:15:57 There is a lot of perception that that is the solution.
10:16:00 In this case you are absolutely right, there is a building
10:16:02 on the corner that in the that is sight obstruction that is
10:16:08 part of the issue.
10:16:09 So we are interested to see what the additional audit can do
10:16:12 by others outside the city to give us some other
10:16:15 suggestions, if we can continue to try to make this
10:16:18 intersection safer.
10:16:19 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay, thank you.
10:16:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:16:29 We go to item number 50.
10:16:31 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
10:16:34 You have asked me to come back and see if we can add another
10:16:38 classification to our business tax dealing with the Internet
10:16:41 sweepstakes cafes.
10:16:44 The short answer is we can't.
10:16:47 We are statutorily prohibited from doing that.
10:16:49 I can give you a longer answer if you like that, but the
10:16:52 statute prevents us from doing that.
10:16:56 Basically this is a tax.
10:16:57 Taxes are only authorized by the legislature.
10:17:00 They do not allow us to add new categories.
10:17:02 So what we would have to do basically is find a category in
10:17:05 our existing code with these kinds of uses would fit, and
10:17:09 that's what we have done.
10:17:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, tax and a fee has the same letters,
10:17:15 three of them.
10:17:16 So I advise you to look at fee.
10:17:19 >> We can't add a fee either because it bears some
10:17:22 relationship to what it is -- unless it bears some regs
10:17:25 relationship to what you are regulating.
10:17:28 And this isn't a regulation.
10:17:31 B we'll look at that as bell but the problem is this is a
10:17:35 tax and we aren't allowed to add a new tax category.
10:17:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions by council members?
10:17:41 We appreciate it.
10:17:42 Item 51.
10:17:42 >>HARRY COHEN: Move the resolution.
10:17:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seconded by Mrs. Mulhern.
10:17:50 All in favor?
10:17:52 Motion passes unanimously.
10:17:56 >>THOM SNELLING: Director of planning and development.
10:17:58 Here today requesting the City Council to approve an
10:18:05 agreement with the City of Tampa and --
10:18:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You're a little late.
10:18:11 Well, you're real late.
10:18:12 This time you are about 10 seconds late.
10:18:18 >>THOM SNELLING: Thank you.
10:18:18 I appreciate it.
10:18:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We are very efficient and effective.
10:18:25 [ Laughter ]
10:18:27 We go to item number 53.
10:18:42 These are public hearings.
10:18:43 We need to open 53 to 58.
10:18:46 >> So moved.
10:18:48 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Second.
10:18:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The ayes have it unanimously.
10:18:55 These are quasi-judicial.
10:18:58 That means that if you are going to speak you have to be
10:19:00 sworn in.
10:19:01 So I will have the clerk swear anyone that's going to speak
10:19:04 on item 353 to 58 to be sworn in.
10:19:09 Hold it one second.
10:19:12 There are some folks coming in, please.
10:19:14 Thank you very much, sir.
10:19:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: These are set for a time certain at
10:19:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes, they are.
10:19:26 But I can still swear them in.
10:19:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Why don't we wait until 10:30?
10:19:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Bell we can swear them in anytime.
10:19:49 The hearings can't -- let's do this.
10:19:51 Let's take a 15-minute break.
10:19:54 Yes, sir.
10:19:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, if you can --
10:19:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I thought from Mr. Suarez was going to
10:20:00 bring that up.
10:20:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Okay.
10:20:02 I'll talk to you about it.
10:20:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We'll take a 15-minute break.
10:20:11 >> (Council recess)
10:37:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: City Council is called to order.
10:37:07 Roll call.
10:37:09 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Here.
10:37:09 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
10:37:10 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
10:37:12 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
10:37:13 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Here.
10:37:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
10:37:22 I don't know if I opened 53 to 58 but if I did I'll do it
10:37:26 again to make sure.
10:37:28 These are public hearings so we are going to open 53 to 58.
10:37:32 Need a motion.
10:37:33 I have a motion by Mrs. Mulhern, seconded by Mr. Cohen.
10:37:36 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
10:37:39 Opposed nay.
10:37:39 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:37:40 Before we start, any e-mails or any correspondence in any
10:37:48 form or fashion that was received?
10:37:50 I have a motion to receive and file before these hearings.
10:37:54 I have a motion to receive and file by Mr. Reddick, seconded
10:37:56 by Mrs. Mulhern.
10:37:58 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
10:38:00 Opposed nay.
10:38:00 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:38:02 The next thing is, these are quasi-judicial hearings.
10:38:05 The clerk will swear in for testimony purposes all of the
10:38:10 individuals who are thinking, will, or may be hopefully
10:38:14 speak, and are going to speak.
10:38:18 Please rise and be sworn in.
10:38:30 The first one is a continued public hearing regarding 5210
10:38:38 North Florida Avenue.
10:38:40 I believe that -- if this is the right one, we had taken all
10:38:44 the testimony that was given to this council, and there was
10:38:48 one or two council members that could not make it for
10:38:51 reasons that we know are correct, and I'm sure they listened
10:38:58 to the tape and heard the tape, but we'll take -- I don't oh
10:39:02 know if this is it or not.
10:39:16 353 wasn't done, I'm sure.
10:39:20 I don't think it was done.
10:39:26 I'm sorry, go on.
10:39:27 >>> This is V-12-280.
10:39:48 We had a distance requirement on forms and it's since been
10:39:55 corrected and is before you today.
10:39:58 The current zoning district is CG and commercial intensive.
10:40:04 Proposed use of the bar lounge, beer, liquor, sales on
10:40:07 consumption on premises only.
10:40:09 They are asking for four waivers.
10:40:11 They are asking for waiver to distance separation from 1,000
10:40:15 feet to 173 feet from establishments selling alcoholic
10:40:21 To reduce the required minimum distance separation 1,000
10:40:25 feet to 75 feet for residential uses.
10:40:28 Looking to reduce parking from 25 spaces to one space.
10:40:32 And allow maneuvering in the right.
10:40:34 Once you see this parcel you will see why they are
10:40:37 requesting all these waivers.
10:40:38 Currently, the development review committee finds it
10:40:56 It's on Florida Avenue.
10:40:56 This is Hillsborough.
10:40:57 This is a little south.
10:40:58 This is the sliver in question.
10:41:07 The small 930 square foot building here right next to what
10:41:11 used to be the U.S. post office, now a NAPA auto parts
10:41:20 Additional photographs.
10:41:21 This is looking down northward.
10:41:28 Bakery up here.
10:41:29 Coming up north on Florida.
10:41:33 This is the building in question.
10:41:35 The lot is 20 wide by 80 feet long.
10:41:43 Very odd.
10:41:44 A look at the building north.
10:41:47 Looking at the building looking south on Florida Avenue.
10:41:55 The vacant lot now owned by FDOT.
10:41:58 You are looking south now.
10:42:00 That's the lot.
10:42:04 Again looking south.
10:42:07 According to the application submitted, 1306 square foot
10:42:15 Request proposes to add additional outside seating area 920
10:42:19 square feet, total alcohol sales area for a total of 2,226
10:42:24 square feet.
10:42:25 The subject site and building has been historically used as
10:42:30 small appliance shop.
10:42:36 Open bar lounge on existing small parcel which is 20 feet by
10:42:39 185 feet.
10:42:42 The site currently utilizes a small surface parking area for
10:42:45 the site.
10:42:51 The applicant is currently requesting to waive required
10:42:54 parking from 25 to one parking space.
10:42:58 Applicant is seeking also to obtain off-site parking and
10:43:01 understands that he will need to obtain enough alternative
10:43:04 design exception, approval for the off-site parking spaces
10:43:10 However, at this time there's been no official application
10:43:12 filed for the consideration for off-site parking.
10:43:18 Thus the waiver has been requested.
10:43:20 The general requirement, finds it inconsistent, increase in
10:43:26 intensity, in addition section 27-269, potentially adverse
10:43:35 effects, due consideration shall be given to potentially
10:43:39 adverse effects generally, the nearby property, area,
10:43:43 neighborhood or the city.
10:43:44 The use and occupancy for its location, hours of operation.
10:43:55 They are requesting a few changes to the site plan that you
10:43:58 have in front of you.
10:44:00 The site plan.
10:44:04 Staff is here if you have any questions.
10:44:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Do we have a police report on this?
10:44:12 >> I don't believe we have it.
10:44:23 We don't have a police report on this.
10:44:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We can't hear you.
10:44:42 You are going to have to speak louder.
10:44:43 >> We did not receive a report from the police officer.
10:44:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:45:00 >> My name is Paul Meorand.
10:45:30 My partner is Brian Bosco.
10:45:33 Residents of Seminole Heights.
10:45:34 We love Seminole Heights.
10:45:36 We love what it's becoming.
10:45:39 It was just voted best neighborhood by creative loafing.
10:45:45 To take you back to Seminole Heights in 1910, got 40 acres,
10:45:53 Suwannee Heights, Tampa Heights, the Dale Mabry family took
10:45:58 that on as well.
10:45:59 The bring I bring this up is we want to be part of that
10:46:03 You can look at South Tampa, Manhattan, I think you look at
10:46:07 Seminole Heights as the village.
10:46:09 There are more and more young people, young professionals,
10:46:16 artist types who move to this neighborhood and we plan to
10:46:19 cater to that field.
10:46:20 We are going to be an artist emporium.
10:46:24 All the art on the wall, photography on the walls will be
10:46:27 from local artists.
10:46:28 We plan on doing an art show once a month.
10:46:30 We plan on doing a fashion show.
10:46:32 We plan on doing a cigar tasting once a month.
10:46:35 And we plan on catering to this community.
10:46:38 We would do drinks in observance of the historical impact of
10:46:42 the city.
10:46:43 There will be a Joe Maddon drink, a Dale Mabry drink and so
10:46:48 forth and so on.
10:46:49 Maybe a John McKay, this type of thing.
10:46:52 In other words, we are going to be sewn into the patchwork
10:46:56 of this city.
10:46:56 We want -- we are not an Ybor City, we are not South Tampa.
10:47:03 We are Seminole Heights.
10:47:04 We are proud of that fact.
10:47:06 And this bar is going to be something that everybody is N
10:47:08 Seminole Heights can be proud of.
10:47:12 My partner Brian Boscoe is a popular person in the bar
10:47:23 He's now with an Italian bistro as general manager as well
10:47:27 as the partner.
10:47:28 He was voted last year the number one bartender in the
10:47:33 And recently he was written up by another local publication
10:47:37 last month.
10:47:39 He's very well liked, and friendliness is going to be the
10:47:43 key to our success.
10:47:44 We plan on being -- anybody who walks in that door.
10:47:55 Also we are going to cater to the film industry, local
10:48:08 talent now in the Tampa Bay area that are making independent
10:48:12 So with some of the names that you have already heard of,
10:48:16 doing some stuff there as well.
10:48:21 So, in other words, we are going to have to TVs in there.
10:48:27 There's nobody in there that provides a place to watch
10:48:30 sports, so we will be the place to watch sports.
10:48:32 The patio is not a party patio.
10:48:35 The patio is in full consideration of our neighbors.
10:48:39 The music will be down temper.
10:48:41 It will be conversation music throughout, inside and
10:48:44 outside, and more Sinatra sound, where you can enjoy a
10:48:49 cigar, glass of wine, what have you, martini, very low
10:48:52 music, and mostly conversation type of music.
10:48:55 Not like elevator music but a notch above that.
10:49:00 So that's pretty much what we are going to do there.
10:49:04 And we hope you see fit to allow us to do that.
10:49:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:49:14 Any questions by council members at this point?
10:49:16 Anyone in the audience care to speak on item 53?
10:49:20 Please come forward.
10:49:30 >> Susan Long, 920 broad street.
10:49:34 This restaurant, one of the owners -- excuse me, bar, one of
10:49:41 the owners in the restaurant, if they did as nice a job on
10:49:45 the bar as the restaurant.
10:49:48 The concerns are the hours of operation.
10:49:51 We want them closed at 11:00 Sunday through Wednesday, 1:00
10:49:56 Thursday through Saturday.
10:50:02 He says it's going to be a step up above elevator music,
10:50:06 conversation music, which is fine.
10:50:07 But we would like it written in there that there's no
10:50:10 exterior amplified music because it is so close to
10:50:14 We have requested that of all other businesses that have
10:50:16 come into our neighborhood that we had any say about.
10:50:19 And like everyone else, I don't know where they are going to
10:50:24 I understand there's a large FDOT lot next door.
10:50:27 I'm sure people will be parking all over it.
10:50:30 I'm sure FDOT may or may not have a say in that.
10:50:34 The napa store is not open in the evening but from 11 a.m.
10:50:39 till probably 6 or so they are open.
10:50:41 I don't know if they would allow parking over there.
10:50:43 But I'm sure if there are enough people over there, people
10:50:45 will try to park in the NAPA lot.
10:50:48 And anywhere else they can find.
10:50:50 So our concern is the parking.
10:50:52 If they can work out something that is acceptable place for
10:50:57 all those cars, perfect.
10:50:58 Thank you.
10:50:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:51:00 Anyone else in the audience care to speak on this item?
10:51:02 Item number 53?
10:51:09 Any remarks by council at this time?
10:51:11 If not, Mrs. Mulhern?
10:51:14 >>CHAIRMAN: I have a question for -- probably for land use,
10:51:19 because it looks like we don't have a zoning atlas for this,
10:51:23 which I wish we could get those for the special use things.
10:51:29 I want to determine what exactly is adjacent to it.
10:51:42 To the -- I want to know beyond the site plan, what
10:51:49 properties, other properties are behind it.
10:51:52 Is there residential?
10:51:55 All I can see are trees.
10:51:57 Show me --
10:51:59 >> We'll get to the subject site.
10:52:00 This is the napa store.
10:52:04 This is residential.
10:52:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Can you show me with your pen where the
10:52:09 closest houses are?
10:52:11 >> It's right here.
10:52:12 >>MARY MULHERN: So Tampa is the first street.
10:52:16 Is there an alley?
10:52:19 >>> No.
10:52:21 There's a little driveway here, like right here.
10:52:23 I guess you could count -- this is a little driveway back
10:52:27 here that leads to this parking lot area.
10:52:29 It goes behind the napa property right hear.
10:52:33 I don't think it's an official alley.
10:52:35 But it is the pathway here.
10:52:37 >> Could you show me with the pen maybe, is it that yellow
10:52:40 line up there, where the residential RS 50 property to the
10:52:49 west, where does it end?
10:52:51 Where is the property line for the RS?
10:52:54 >> I don't know exactly these are existing lot lines.
10:52:59 >> So it's probably right under the GF --
10:53:05 >> This is residential for sure right here.
10:53:07 And this is the parking lot.
10:53:08 It goes back around like this.
10:53:10 It's all this line right here.
10:53:11 >>MARY MULHERN: I can almost see it.
10:53:16 But here is my problem with these kinds of questions for us.
10:53:21 You are showing us the area where they are asking for
10:53:28 special use permit.
10:53:29 But are you showing us the actual boundary of the property
10:53:39 The lot?
10:53:40 >> This is the lot.
10:53:42 This is the lot --
10:53:43 >>MARY MULHERN: That's the lot line?
10:53:45 >> This is the lot line.
10:53:51 Very odd.
10:53:52 But you can see I guess a little better --
10:53:56 >> and what were the uses before?
10:54:00 >> An appliance repair shop.
10:54:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
10:54:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any further questions by council members?
10:54:06 Petitioner, you have five minutes.
10:54:08 Ms. Capin?
10:54:10 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
10:54:13 Again, the outdoor music is red star rock bar and it's going
10:54:22 to have conversational music.
10:54:24 That's interesting.
10:54:26 Again, you have an outside patio amplification.
10:54:37 >>> It will be in the ordinance whatever you guys tell us.
10:54:44 Speakers inward so no sound going outward.
10:54:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Capin.
10:54:52 We can't tell you legally.
10:54:53 You have to tell us.
10:54:54 >> Okay.
10:54:54 We are going to stay within ordinance.
10:54:56 Whatever --
10:54:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Say that again?
10:54:58 >> Whatever is allowed for that type of zoning is what we
10:55:06 are in tune with.
10:55:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You ain't saying nothing.
10:55:09 You are saying what the ordinance contains.
10:55:10 I don't know what you worked out with the neighborhood if
10:55:12 anything at all.
10:55:13 I'm not the petitioner.
10:55:14 You are.
10:55:16 Mrs. Capin has the floor.
10:55:18 Then we go to Montelione.
10:55:24 >>YVONNE CAPIN: When I look at these things, when they talk
10:55:27 about music on patios, and we see a neighborhood all the way
10:55:30 around, again, my concern is that the music will get too
10:55:37 cloudy loud for the neighborhood.
10:55:39 And that is a definite concern.
10:55:43 And amplification can be turned up.
10:55:46 And, yes, we have decibels that are legal, or acceptable,
10:55:51 under the ordinance.
10:55:53 It still can be very annoying to the neighbors.
10:55:56 Also, when the doors are open, and amplification can filter
10:56:03 out to the neighborhood.
10:56:04 Therefore, that is a concern of mine.
10:56:08 When it comes to out door patio.
10:56:10 And when I hear amplification and a bar, and the doors open
10:56:14 because the doors can be opened to the patio, again, it
10:56:19 filters out to the neighborhood.
10:56:20 That's a concern.
10:56:23 Thought I would let you know.
10:56:24 >> Yes.
10:56:25 And I did a couple calls to neighbors asking about the sound
10:56:29 on the patio.
10:56:29 And as I told them, you know, our sound is going to be
10:56:35 strictly conversation.
10:56:36 There's no amplification that, you know, you see in patios
10:56:41 that you see in other places.
10:56:42 This is community.
10:56:43 This is a neighborhood.
10:56:44 We have to address that.
10:56:45 We have to be compassionate to that and we plan on doing
10:56:48 This is really just background music for conversation.
10:56:54 This is a conversation type of place.
10:56:56 We don't want to be in a place where there's loud music and
10:56:59 nobody can hear each other talk.
10:57:01 That's our goal.
10:57:11 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you for remaining me.
10:57:15 Again, as I said before to other places, that's a good
10:57:18 neighbor policy.
10:57:19 Nonetheless, what we pass hear runs with the land.
10:57:22 So if you don't stay there, you could be the best neighbor
10:57:25 in the world and turn that volume down.
10:57:28 The next person coming onboard does not have to follow your
10:57:33 good neighbor policy.
10:57:35 Therefore, it is an issue.
10:57:38 And a concern for me.
10:57:39 >> Well, I would like to add, you know, if we put something
10:57:52 in writing that would maintain the sound at a certain level,
10:57:56 we would certainly do that.
10:57:59 Going forward.
10:57:59 >>> Land development.
10:58:06 Maybe acoustic only outside?
10:58:17 Maybe that would help the applicant.
10:58:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, there's other concerns here, I
10:58:21 I see hands going up.
10:58:24 Let's just wait a minute.
10:58:25 Mrs. Montelione.
10:58:26 And then we'll come back.
10:58:27 >>LISA MONTELIONE: As I have said before in other hearings
10:58:30 like this is that we have potential to make this a city that
10:58:37 retains our young people, that has a vibrants night life.
10:58:42 I mean, you yourself, Mrs. Capin has talked about this is a
10:58:50 24 hour city, that we have people in industries that we are
10:58:53 The mayor is constantly trying to lure companies here for
10:59:01 digital graphic design, for many types of businesses that
10:59:08 can be run anywhere in the world, that we are trying to get
10:59:12 them to locate here.
10:59:14 If we don't have places for young people to go, young
10:59:19 adults, at whatever time they finish working because they
10:59:26 might have a client in Europe or China or India and places
10:59:33 where we are trying to compete with on a worldwide stage, if
10:59:40 we don't have places for them to go, they are going to go to
10:59:43 Charlotte, or they are going to go to Winston-Salem or some
10:59:46 of the other places that the mayor talks about all the time.
10:59:51 So, you know, having this kind of vibrancy in Seminole
10:59:55 Heights that has struggled for so long to try and become a
11:00:01 hip, cool place where people want to go, the independent,
11:00:05 which is right across the street I have been to many, many
11:00:07 times, it's a great place, they attract a crowd that sits
11:00:13 outside almost every night of the week, doesn't seem to be
11:00:18 bothering anyone.
11:00:20 My office has never received any complaints.
11:00:22 I have never seen anybody here bringing noise regulation
11:00:29 charges against the independent, and they are outside every
11:00:33 single night of the week.
11:00:36 We have got the restaurant cafe down the street.
11:00:40 They have outdoor space.
11:00:42 Full every night of the week.
11:00:46 This area has the potential to be, as creative loafing has
11:00:53 already alluded, a great place with historic homes, with
11:00:59 restaurants within walking distance, with little bars to
11:01:03 gather and hang out and, you know, discuss topics like
11:01:08 politics and art.
11:01:11 And I think it's a wonderful thing.
11:01:13 And I don't see, you know, how we are going to get there if
11:01:17 we continually put regulations on establishments and really
11:01:26 stifle the activity that we are trying to promote on one
11:01:30 hand with cultural arts and with, you know, having
11:01:35 establishments that attract and keep our talent here in the
11:01:42 Then, on the other hand, we regulate and say, no, we don't
11:01:45 want that kind of thing.
11:01:47 Looking at the site plan, and looking at the neighborhood,
11:01:50 and looking at what this area -- what this lot has behind
11:01:56 it, there's quite a few feet.
11:01:59 I don't know if we have any distant measurements.
11:02:03 I mean, I have the site plan hear.
11:02:04 So if I look, we have got the one-story building is set
11:02:08 back, it looks like 69.2 feet.
11:02:14 That's pretty darn far.
11:02:16 And that's from the back of the building.
11:02:19 Where you are discussing having the patio with potential of
11:02:23 music and I see the selection of music, Sinatra, Brazilian
11:02:28 house, that sort of music which I happen to love, the front
11:02:32 of the building would be, let's see, 69 -- somebody do the
11:02:38 math -- 69 plus 65.3 plus another 5, so roughly --
11:02:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 139.
11:02:45 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
11:02:47 So that patio would be 139 feet from the nearest backyard of
11:02:56 a house.
11:02:57 That's pretty far.
11:02:58 Now, just beyond that patio is Florida Avenue, which has a
11:03:03 lot of noise down Florida Avenue to start with.
11:03:05 So I don't know how having music on a patio that's 139 feet
11:03:12 from the backyard of the nearest house, which fronts on
11:03:16 Florida Avenue, which is a noisy road to start with, is
11:03:19 going to bother anybody.
11:03:24 So I really am not supportive of restricting any type of
11:03:30 music on the front patio of this particular establishment,
11:03:34 given the conditions, because we want to be mindful of
11:03:40 conditions every single time we get one.
11:03:44 In some places it may not be appropriate.
11:03:46 In some cases it may be close to the neighborhood, it
11:03:49 they're may be too much residential, it may not work.
11:03:52 But here I think it's an appropriate place because of this
11:03:54 particular site that this is on, and looking at what was
11:03:58 passed around earlier, there were three locations that are
11:04:04 being worked out for parking.
11:04:06 One is with FDOT, one is with Mauricio's bakery, and one is
11:04:14 with Cleanse Apothecary.
11:04:16 And it looks like you may be getting close to leasing the
11:04:19 property from the D.O.T.
11:04:21 I don't see a problem with parking either.
11:04:25 Again, we are trying to promote a walkable neighborhood,
11:04:28 trying to promote the use of bicycles and low impact type of
11:04:32 So I have no problem with any of the waivers that you are
11:04:34 asking for, and I support you fully in what you are trying
11:04:41 to do there.
11:04:42 I think it's a great thing for our city.
11:04:43 Thank you for taking the risk and becoming a business owner
11:04:47 of a bar and restaurant.
11:04:49 It's not an easy business.
11:04:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez.
11:04:51 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair.
11:04:53 Petitioner, if you could am could to the microphone real
11:04:56 Typically what we have done in these circumstances in almost
11:04:58 every neighborhood in the city is -- and it sounded like
11:05:03 based on what your words were to us, that you would accept a
11:05:07 stipulation to a time in which amplified music was not
11:05:10 allowed at your place, it would go on the site plan which
11:05:14 means that you whoever would get that spot after you, and I
11:05:22 hope you are there for years and years to come, would accept
11:05:25 Typically we have a stipulation of, I think it's 10 p.m. we
11:05:28 have done in the past, 11 p.m.
11:05:30 We can't negotiate with you.
11:05:31 But this is things that we have done in the past.
11:05:35 If there's any suggestions would you like to make about that
11:05:37 type of stipulation, you know, we could put it into the
11:05:40 record and then make a decision based on that stipulation.
11:05:43 >>> One thing I wanted to make sure, there is no live music.
11:05:48 The reason why it's called rock bar is because rock and roll
11:05:52 love peace is our theme, you know.
11:05:55 And there's nothing better than seeing a picture of Janice
11:05:59 Joplin or Elton John, and puts great thoughts in your mind
11:06:03 of times of when and where.
11:06:05 And that's why the rock is there.
11:06:08 There's no live music in the bar.
11:06:10 There's a peace sign that's going to be planted on the front
11:06:13 Not a big one, a small one.
11:06:15 That's our theme.
11:06:16 We also initiated over -- well, 397 signatures.
11:06:21 >>MIKE SUAREZ: If I could interrupt petitioner for a
11:06:25 My question is not -- if you could, I mean, you made a
11:06:29 comment about you would accept.
11:06:33 >> We will accept.
11:06:34 >>MIKE SUAREZ: So you have to bring forward a suggestion to
11:06:37 us, if possible.
11:06:38 >>> Absolutely.
11:06:40 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Well, are you going to bring it now?
11:06:45 >>> Okay.
11:06:45 Well, I would say, you know, 10:30, no amplified music on
11:06:53 the patio.
11:06:53 >>MIKE SUAREZ: That you would stipulate that on our site
11:06:57 plan, no amplified music after 10:30?
11:07:01 >>> Right.
11:07:01 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I have nothing further, chair.
11:07:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We go to Mr. Cohen.
11:07:06 >>HARRY COHEN: Let me just -- I don't want to belabor this
11:07:09 because I think we have gotten to the point.
11:07:11 But just two things I think for the public and for the
11:07:15 First of all is, to reiterate what one of my colleagues said
11:07:20 earlier, these conditions run with the land.
11:07:22 So as a result, the type of music that you intend to play,
11:07:27 while it may not generally be terribly loud, it doesn't mean
11:07:31 that somebody else couldn't come along five, ten years from
11:07:34 now and do something entirely different that would be louder
11:07:42 so the conditions have to tap into account possibilities as
11:07:45 well as your intentions.
11:07:46 The second thing -- and I think we cleared it up -- is that
11:07:50 everyone has to abide by the noise ordinances in the city.
11:07:53 The noise ordinances of the city are not a negotiating Chip
11:07:58 when we are having a discussion about amplified music.
11:08:01 Everyone is under that restriction.
11:08:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We go to Mrs. Mulhern then Mrs. Capin.
11:08:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
11:08:11 I wasn't here at the first -- when you started this so I'm
11:08:15 just hearing what I'm hearing today.
11:08:17 So I still have a few questions.
11:08:19 I think for Joel, and I just got the staff report from -- I
11:08:24 didn't have it.
11:08:26 My question, everybody else is covering the sound question.
11:08:31 But what about the parking?
11:08:35 They are asking for a waiver from is it still true from 25
11:08:46 spaces to one?
11:08:47 >> Yes, ma'am.
11:08:48 >> That hasn't changed?
11:08:49 >>> It hasn't changed.
11:08:51 >>MARY MULHERN: So is your staff recommendation --
11:08:53 >>> Find it consistent with code unless they are able to
11:08:55 provide off-site parking.
11:08:57 >>MARY MULHERN: So my question for you, petitioner, is --
11:09:05 >>> When that was spoken of, we have two right now.
11:09:08 We have the bakery and the Apothocary. That's more than 25
11:09:18 spaces there.
11:09:21 We have -- as soon as we get approved, we will be signing
11:09:24 leases with them.
11:09:25 As far as the package.
11:09:30 And the state, Department of Transportation owns a lot next
11:09:33 to us, and we have been talking to them, and it's almost to
11:09:35 the point where they can lease.
11:09:39 It's a process.
11:09:39 Once that becomes available, we will be leasing that as
11:09:43 So we will have more than enough parking without anybody
11:09:46 parking on the street and the yard, et cetera.
11:09:49 >>MARY MULHERN: So the bakery, how many spots?
11:09:56 >> He has 15.
11:09:56 And Apothocary, 15 as well.
11:10:00 And Department of Transportation.
11:10:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
11:10:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Capin and then I want to speak.
11:10:11 >>YVONNE CAPIN: (off microphone) ... the same hours for
11:10:21 And in reference to my fellow council member, I advocate for
11:10:28 There are certain areas that are more adapt at that than
11:10:34 others when you have residential.
11:10:36 And amplified music can be Frank Sinatra or Jimi Hendrix.
11:10:41 I enjoy both.
11:10:44 As a matter of fact, I saw Jimi Hendrix perform live here at
11:10:49 Curtis Hixon hall back in the day, so I am very aware of
11:10:54 What I want to say is -- and it was brought up.
11:10:58 Again, you have no live music.
11:11:00 So it has to be amplification.
11:11:03 In other words, it has to be on speakers.
11:11:06 And in reference to this -- and I'm going to go back -- that
11:11:11 we had this back in the spring or so.
11:11:13 We had this come up with another place that had an outdoor
11:11:17 And the neighbors came and supported it.
11:11:20 And they agreed to turn the speakers inward, and the
11:11:27 neighbors agreed.
11:11:28 And I reminded the neighbors that that was a good neighbor
11:11:32 Guess what.
11:11:35 I have received e-mails and phone calls from neighbors about
11:11:39 the music and the loudness of this music.
11:11:45 So, yes, I have.
11:11:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, let me --
11:11:51 >> Excuse me, I have the floor.
11:11:53 And secondly, I had the floor before.
11:11:56 I was cut off.
11:11:57 And then -- yes, I wasn't finished.
11:12:00 And they said we'll get back to you.
11:12:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am not going to have a debate between
11:12:05 council members.
11:12:07 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I'm not debating.
11:12:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, I'm speaking to all the council
11:12:11 All of you.
11:12:13 This is not kindergarten.
11:12:15 Let's go.
11:12:17 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I understand.
11:12:17 >> You were talking about the space behind us.
11:12:22 And there's about 50 feet before the fence.
11:12:25 And this is a parking lot.
11:12:27 And then there's trees.
11:12:28 And then there's houses.
11:12:29 So there's a lot of buffer between, you know, as opposed to
11:12:33 other places that are right on top of people.
11:12:35 We are not right on top of anybody.
11:12:37 And again, you know, I'm not in my 20s.
11:12:41 I want conversation music.
11:12:42 This is the crowd we want.
11:12:43 We don't want the dollar crowd.
11:12:45 We don't want the young crowd.
11:12:48 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I understand that.
11:12:49 As my fellow council members stated --
11:12:51 >>> I know.
11:12:51 >> It goes with the land.
11:12:53 >>> Absolutely.
11:12:53 I understand.
11:12:55 And no amplification after 10:30.
11:12:57 I think that gives everybody peace of mind.
11:13:00 And when it's on, you will not hear it playing because we
11:13:05 have no desire to have loud music.
11:13:08 That is what we are running away from.
11:13:12 Everybody else has that.
11:13:13 We want conversation music.
11:13:14 We want people to be able to talk about, you know, life, the
11:13:17 world, topics.
11:13:22 >>YVONNE CAPIN: And you have an agreement for the parking?
11:13:25 >> Yes.
11:13:27 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I am going to wait to see what you have to
11:13:30 offer that will change my mind.
11:13:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me just say a few things here.
11:13:38 And this is not about your petition per se.
11:13:42 But Howard Avenue.
11:13:45 We did the same thing and I got hit where it hurts of the
11:13:50 MacDill Avenue, same thing and I got bit where it hurts.
11:13:55 Some of the stuff that we hear, the search of us, not one,
11:13:58 not two, but search of us, regarding these things are daily,
11:14:03 which takes a long time, because once it happens it happens.
11:14:07 There's no going back and correcting it.
11:14:09 It's done forever because it goes with the land.
11:14:13 I have asked the legal department to look at just the
11:14:16 That's legislatively.
11:14:17 What concerns me is that -- and this is not about your case,
11:14:21 about cases that happened in the past, that we say, okay,
11:14:26 you don't meet the requirement but you are going to take
11:14:29 these leases.
11:14:30 Guess what.
11:14:31 Leases are terminated in any form or fashion legally because
11:14:34 they can't be forever.
11:14:37 The owner of those buildings may want to do something past
11:14:42 that time, but he or she has control of that lease.
11:14:44 They have the right to their own property rights.
11:14:46 So it's incumbent upon all of us to understand that leases,
11:14:51 in my judgment, to me, from what I have been bit at, parking
11:14:57 is paramount in my case.
11:15:01 Now, these leases, all you have is an intent.
11:15:07 You don't have a lease.
11:15:08 Am I right?
11:15:09 >> Correct.
11:15:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So are we intending giving you something
11:15:16 possibly -- I'm not speaking about you.
11:15:18 I'm speaking theory all together.
11:15:20 >>> I got you.
11:15:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What is happening to us, because things
11:15:23 change just like technology changes.
11:15:25 New ideas come, and these ideas same great when you bring
11:15:28 them up to us and everybody is cheering for you.
11:15:31 But at the end of the day, the same ones that vote own are
11:15:33 the ones that are trying to correct something that can't be
11:15:36 corrected because it goes with the land.
11:15:38 I'm not opposed to anything like this happening.
11:15:40 I'm opposed to it not coming in theory, because all these
11:15:46 things are -- not in your case but in other cases -- where
11:15:53 they don't -- it just washes out.
11:15:55 >> I understand.
11:15:59 I think -- the lease is concrete.
11:16:05 The reason I didn't sign a lease is I didn't know I had to
11:16:07 sign a lease.
11:16:08 I thought I wasn't approved yet so I didn't think a lease
11:16:10 would come into play.
11:16:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We understand.
11:16:13 >> Had I known it would have been just as easy to sign a
11:16:16 lease, I just didn't think it was official until we got
11:16:19 That's the reason for that.
11:16:21 But we are no Howard Avenue and we are no MacDill, we
11:16:25 are no Ybor, we are no South Tampa.
11:16:27 We are Seminole Heights.
11:16:28 >> But it started just like you are starting.
11:16:31 There had to be a starting point somewhere.
11:16:33 I'm not talking about Ybor City like I started -- speak
11:16:36 about yourself and what you bring.
11:16:40 I'm not taking anything into consideration other than you
11:16:42 are here.
11:16:42 >> There's not enough space in here.
11:16:45 The last prime real estate on that strip to do something
11:16:49 like this.
11:16:50 And we have 397 signatures.
11:16:55 Everybody wants it.
11:16:56 Again, this is a conversation place.
11:16:58 This place is -- we are trying to assimilate did into the
11:17:08 Eights community place.
11:17:11 And that's what we are going to bring.
11:17:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any on the council members at this time?
11:17:14 Mrs. Mulhern.
11:17:15 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to make one point.
11:17:18 I looked at your petitions, and there are names and
11:17:22 signatures, but there's not any addresses on there.
11:17:24 So we don't really know who, you know, who these people are,
11:17:30 if they are really the neighbors in the neighborhood.
11:17:32 We only heard from one neighbor who was not opposed but had
11:17:36 some concerns.
11:17:39 But I have to say in addition to what Chairman Miranda said,
11:17:47 we approved recently, in the last couple years, approved a
11:17:53 certain special use alcohol permit, and within days, I
11:17:59 was -- and I'm telling you this for your own information --
11:18:03 I was told by one of the property owners who said they would
11:18:09 give parking to the -- to the bar, that that never happened
11:18:16 because they couldn't agree on the cost.
11:18:20 So we approved something much like this where the parking
11:18:26 didn't materialize.
11:18:29 So it's hard for us -- and it isn't anything to do with you
11:18:33 As everyone said here, it's about us giving rights to
11:18:38 property, and no matter whose hands -- we don't know whose
11:18:44 hands it going to end up.
11:18:45 You don't know what the end result is going to be.
11:18:48 So I'm just saying this is first reading.
11:18:52 I don't know, you know, really how much the neighbors are in
11:18:57 support of this.
11:18:58 I didn't hear anything officially from the neighborhood
11:19:01 associations or the Seminole Heights business guild or
11:19:09 So if this does pass today, just be aware at least I would
11:19:13 like to hear more from the neighbors if they have a problem
11:19:17 with it.
11:19:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Capin.
11:19:27 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Absolutely, I would love to see this go in.
11:19:30 And when we talk about conditions, that is very important.
11:19:34 It is very, very important, because they are carried on the
11:19:39 site plan.
11:19:41 We have actually done permitting before, that it is so
11:19:47 conditioned, that if that establishment moved out, nothing
11:19:52 other than what was there before could be there, serving
11:19:56 exactly the way it was.
11:19:58 That's what conditions do in order to keep things
11:20:04 It has happened.
11:20:06 We have done that.
11:20:08 And it is very important to the citizens that we actually
11:20:12 take care for not only now but for the future, because it
11:20:21 continues with the land.
11:20:24 And there's nothing I would like to see more than your
11:20:27 establishment open.
11:20:29 I believe you are genuinely good businessmen and you have
11:20:32 good partners, but there are issues here that are weighing
11:20:39 on me, and this is first reading, right?
11:20:51 No, this is to be brought forth.
11:20:54 So maybe there would be a lease in between, and also
11:21:04 whatever else you can -- but I wanted to let you know that
11:21:07 this is not -- I have nothing against -- as a matter of
11:21:09 fact, I truly believe that this is exactly what we need in
11:21:13 our city, but there has to be conditions, and there has to
11:21:18 be regulations.
11:21:19 Without regulations, we saw what happened on Wall Street.
11:21:23 And this is not -- but it does pertain to our neighborhood.
11:21:27 So -- neighborhoods.
11:21:29 I just wanted to let you know where I was before, and I will
11:21:34 wait to hear.
11:21:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other council members?
11:21:40 >> This is my business partner.
11:21:45 Would you like to speak?
11:21:47 >> May I say a few words?
11:21:49 Thank you very much.
11:21:50 If you go back to the petitions, all the names and
11:21:52 signatures --
11:21:53 >> Your name?
11:21:54 >> My name is Brian Boscoe.
11:21:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Bring the Mike up a little.
11:22:00 >> I'm also a business partner which is in Seminole Heights
11:22:05 down the road on 64, Florida Ave., and since the beginning
11:22:11 of that we have been open about seven weeks now and we are
11:22:14 already employing about 25 people.
11:22:17 So that's what I'm asking for, is for people not to say no
11:22:22 and for us to be able to employ and to keep lights turned
11:22:26 When we walked in the restaurant, there was an overgrown
11:22:29 building, you know, there was just tile everywhere, it was
11:22:33 an empties building, so there was loads and loads of garbage
11:22:39 behind that building.
11:22:40 So Seminole Heights is a growing area, and I don't want to
11:22:44 see every building end up like that.
11:22:46 You know, we are trying to get jobs, trying to build the
11:22:49 community, trying to keep the community rolling instead of
11:22:51 shutting doors, you know.
11:22:54 And the petitions all came -- from regulars and those are
11:23:00 local people, because I see the same people in there five
11:23:03 days a week and they all know everybody because they are all
11:23:05 Seminole Heights neighbors.
11:23:07 I would love to have the opportunities to do that.
11:23:09 And with more focus on arts and more focus on local music
11:23:13 and things like that.
11:23:14 So the word rock, I didn't want anybody to misconstrue that.
11:23:20 That is more just a general feeling, you know, a general
11:23:26 groove, a real peaceful, relaxed -- like we have couches
11:23:33 where people can sit, and I am really just trying to ask for
11:23:37 you guys to say yes, give us a chance.
11:23:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other council members at this time?
11:23:45 One last time.
11:23:45 Anyone in the audience who has not spoken would care to
11:23:48 speak at this time?
11:23:49 All right.
11:23:50 We have two more.
11:23:50 So then we'll go back to your rebuttal after that again.
11:23:55 Yes, sir.
11:23:55 >> My name is von Gardner, I actually live in Seminole
11:24:03 While I lived there -- I love being there.
11:24:09 I do enjoy ---I have lived downtown.
11:24:12 I lived in South Tampa.
11:24:15 I think that -- I think the location is amazing.
11:24:17 I think it's great.
11:24:18 I love the fact that it's right across the street from --
11:24:25 well, the other -- I love that I can go, I can have a meal
11:24:32 at the refinery and then I can walk across the street and
11:24:37 smoke a cigar and hang out there.
11:24:39 I currently rent, but my landlord actually is Jeff Curtis,
11:24:46 and he owns four houses in Seminole Heights.
11:24:51 106 where I'm at, 309 west Idlewild, 17302 east burn and
11:24:57 6302-19th street.
11:25:00 And he highly supports the rock bar.
11:25:05 I support art establishments such as this bar, a
11:25:09 noncorporate, local owned and operated business in this
11:25:15 As far as I hear a lost concerns in regards to the music in
11:25:19 the back, or in the patio, and I keep hearing the idea that
11:25:26 it's the law of the land once you give them the access to do
11:25:30 it, is there any way that decibel -- that it could be
11:25:35 written in regards to decibel so that regardless of whether
11:25:38 music is played there, that meter is passed on with the
11:25:43 So it's not a matter of what type of music, it's a matter of
11:25:48 Besides from that, I have another -- there's another person,
11:25:51 there's another couple, new businesses-oh support new
11:26:00 businesses opening, big business and small, the next step in
11:26:04 Seminole Heights becoming about the community for all.
11:26:07 That is from Pat and Becca Daily, 5208 North Suwanee Avenue.
11:26:15 Once again, that's all I have.
11:26:16 And I hope that it passes and I look forward to supporting
11:26:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thanks very much.
11:26:23 >> my name is Ron Antonio Veretta, West Genesee, probably a
11:26:31 mile and a half from the location.
11:26:32 I want to thank you for helping me out the with my chickens
11:26:36 the last time I came up here.
11:26:38 But I know the gentlemen personally.
11:26:40 I own a company in Ybor City called Tampa tobacco company.
11:26:43 Bun one of the things we do in Seminole Heights is actually
11:26:46 do everything together.
11:26:47 We have a wonderful community garden.
11:26:49 Our members of the community are phenomenal.
11:26:52 And I think these gentlemen have proven a lot of effort to
11:26:55 try to maintain that in the city.
11:26:57 Actually reside there.
11:26:59 And it's not somebody coming in that's transplanted and
11:27:02 trying to do something and benefit from it.
11:27:04 These people waited graciously for this particular moment to
11:27:07 come up and talk to you.
11:27:09 I think that all of us, we work together, we stay together,
11:27:12 and we'll do things together.
11:27:13 And we have called the urban corridor, been called the
11:27:19 I think this village is what makes it so special.
11:27:22 And when I say Seminole Heights, about one particular area
11:27:28 for this location is at, Seminole Heights is very, very
11:27:34 special to us as a community.
11:27:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
11:27:36 >> Thank you for your time.
11:27:41 My name is Eric Thornsboro. I live on Holly Street in
11:27:46 Seminole Heights, been in the neighborhood for eight years.
11:27:48 I have watched the neighborhood grow exponentially and to my
11:27:52 delight a lot of new restaurants, and bars have moved in.
11:27:59 As the land is being used up, there's not a lot of
11:28:02 opportunity for new establishments to grow in the
11:28:06 So I really welcome a new establishment that's going to
11:28:09 cater to the arts and the Bohemian community which from my
11:28:15 viewpoint has been a lot of people that ride their bikes to
11:28:18 the establishments, they lake to walk to the establishments,
11:28:21 and they are living around within a one, two, three,
11:28:24 four-block area.
11:28:25 So they are very delighted to be able to come and enjoy all
11:28:30 the amenities without having to drive or park.
11:28:33 And I appreciate your time.
11:28:35 And I hope that the council will decide for this.
11:28:41 Thank you.
11:28:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:28:43 Next, please.
11:28:43 >>> My name is Laura Olson.
11:28:47 I did not even come to speak on their behalf but I happened
11:28:51 to hear about it so I wanted to chime in.
11:28:53 I own property at 327 West Jean Street, 6210 River Terrace,
11:28:57 6208 River Terrace, and 6204 River Terrace, and 6202 River
11:29:01 Terrace, and one thing that kind of strikes me is I'm always
11:29:04 very intrigued by people who will come in and try to take a
11:29:08 chance, putting in a restaurant or a bar or business on that
11:29:13 stretch of Florida Avenue.
11:29:13 It's a difficult place to establish that type of thing.
11:29:17 And, you know, coming in to Seminole Heights, it's not the
11:29:20 greatest entrance on Florida Avenue.
11:29:23 It kind of -- it is still dappled with the run down
11:29:31 commercial places and not very aesthetically pleasing so the
11:29:34 idea that someone is willing to come in there and do
11:29:36 something positive, as a property owner I'm very supportive
11:29:39 of that.
11:29:40 And in regards to the noise issues, I believe that all of
11:29:43 that can be taken care of by the existing laws regarding the
11:29:47 noise ordinance.
11:29:48 And I don't think that the type of music being played has
11:29:51 anything to do with it.
11:29:52 So I am very supportive.
11:29:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:29:57 Next, please.
11:29:57 >>> Hello. My name is Monique Copla, a realtor, business
11:30:09 I recently moved to Seminole Heights within the past year
11:30:11 and I have enjoyed the culture, enjoyed the neighbors, and
11:30:14 one thing that I really enjoy are the restaurants.
11:30:18 My clients are all moving from downtown because Seminole
11:30:23 Heights has such a great feel to it.
11:30:26 It's a young demographic that's coming in.
11:30:28 And they wants places to go hang out.
11:30:30 They want places to eat and play.
11:30:34 And currently we have the independent ends.
11:30:36 We have the refinery.
11:30:37 We have Ella's.
11:30:38 A few little things here and there.
11:30:40 But we need more.
11:30:41 And to bring in people that are going to take some of the
11:30:46 houses that are less desirable and turn them into the cute
11:30:48 bungalows that they were at one time.
11:30:50 We have to attract them with something.
11:30:53 This bar is excellent for the community.
11:30:57 It was done with great class.
11:30:58 The music in there is very chilled and relaxed.
11:31:02 And I'm sure that they will conduct themselves in the same
11:31:05 manner as the new bar.
11:31:07 And so I'm in great support of it and I hope you pass this
11:31:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:31:12 Anyone else in the audience who has not spoken?
11:31:14 Petitioner, you can rebuttal.
11:31:16 I don't think you should but you can.
11:31:18 They all spoke in your favor.
11:31:19 Unless you want to speak.
11:31:21 You are welcome to do that.
11:31:23 [ Laughter ]
11:31:24 >>> Thank you.
11:31:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You are.
11:31:26 >>> The conditions for off-site parking, 25 spaces.
11:31:33 And I will agree to no outside amplified music after 10:30.
11:31:37 I will do that and get that done.
11:31:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any further questions by council members?
11:31:44 I have a motion by Mr. Reddick to close the public hearing
11:31:48 on item number 53.
11:31:50 Do I have a second?
11:31:51 Seconded by Mr. Suarez.
11:31:52 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
11:31:54 Opposed nay.
11:31:55 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:31:57 The hearing is closed.
11:31:59 Mrs. Montelione, would you kindly take number 53?
11:32:02 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
11:32:10 I present an ordinance for first reading consideration
11:32:13 approving special use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage
11:32:16 sales, bar/lounge on premises only and making lawful the
11:32:20 sale of beverages regardless of alcoholic content, beer,
11:32:23 wine and liquor, on that certain lot, plot or tract of land
11:32:26 located at 5210 North Florida Avenue, Tampa, Florida as more
11:32:31 particularly described in section 3, that all ordinances or
11:32:36 parts of ordinances in conflict are repealed, providing an
11:32:39 effective date.
11:32:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by -- we'll get to that
11:32:44 in a second.
11:32:47 I have a second.
11:32:48 Discussion, Mrs. Capin.
11:32:49 You wanted to discuss that motion made by Mrs. Montelione,
11:32:52 seconded by Mr. Suarez.
11:32:53 >>MIKE SUAREZ: To add the revision as he stated them.
11:32:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, I believe the petitioner made some
11:33:01 Would you care to state them again on the record?
11:33:04 I don't want to speak for you, sir, but I think you made it
11:33:07 loud and clear.
11:33:08 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you very much.
11:33:13 I appreciate that.
11:33:14 We need to add revision sheet for -- it dated October 11,
11:33:20 2012 for the site plan revision.
11:33:22 Is that correct, Eric?
11:33:24 Okay, thank you.
11:33:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And your conditions were --
11:33:28 >>> Design exception for off-site parking, 25 spaces and no
11:33:32 outside amplification -- amplified music after 10:30.
11:33:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seven days a week?
11:33:42 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I have to add that to my motion.
11:33:44 If I don't add that to my motion it does not bind him.
11:33:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's why I asked him to say it so you
11:33:49 can say it after him.
11:33:51 >>LISA MONTELIONE: But I don't want to add that, because I
11:33:55 don't agree with the 10:30.
11:33:57 And I think he's got the parking with the leases.
11:34:06 They are intent to lease right now.
11:34:08 But he's representing himself.
11:34:09 He doesn't have a professional attorney.
11:34:11 And dent know that having the leases with him would have
11:34:13 made a difference.
11:34:14 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I take back my second because that is not --
11:34:25 I am not going to second that motion.
11:34:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion on the floor going back
11:34:29 to the original motion.
11:34:30 The second dropped.
11:34:31 Dy not take a vote on it.
11:34:33 I go back to the original motion that was made by Mrs.
11:34:37 That is the motion that's on the floor without -- yes, with
11:34:41 the site plan revisions as I understood it but without the
11:34:44 amplified music hours.
11:34:48 Am I correct?
11:34:49 >>LISA MONTELIONE: That's correct.
11:34:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Do I have a second?
11:34:52 So that motion dies for lack of a second.
11:34:55 >> You have to find somebody else to make the motion.
11:34:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am going to work through that a little
11:34:59 bit at a time.
11:35:00 I need another sponsor.
11:35:02 Mr. Suarez.
11:35:03 >>MIKE SUAREZ: An ordinance be presented for first reading
11:35:08 consideration, an ordinance approving a special use permit
11:35:11 S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, bar and lounge, on
11:35:15 premises only and making lawful the sale of beverages
11:35:17 regardless of alcoholic content, beer wine and liquor, on
11:35:21 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 5210
11:35:25 North Florida Avenue, Tampa, Florida as more particularly
11:35:27 described in section 3, that all ordinances or parts of
11:35:31 ordinances in conflict are repealed, providing an effective
11:35:33 date, including the sheet as provided by staff dated October
11:35:39 11, 2012, including that revision that will be on the site
11:35:42 plan concerning amplified music after 10:30 p.m., seven days
11:35:47 a week, and including that between first and second reading
11:35:51 that the petitioner will come back with signed leases for
11:35:54 parking as stated.
11:36:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Suarez, second by
11:36:03 Mr. Reddick.
11:36:04 Now I am going to ask you, sir, because there's a different
11:36:06 maker, and I know it's the same motion, it sounds redundant
11:36:10 but I want the record to be clear what is it you want?
11:36:14 >> For off-site parking 25 spaces, and no outside amplified
11:36:20 music after 10:30.
11:36:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's seven days a week?
11:36:23 >> Seven days a week.
11:36:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez?
11:36:26 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I accept that.
11:36:28 >> Second.
11:36:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion and second.
11:36:29 All in favor say aye.
11:36:31 Opposed nay.
11:36:31 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Nay.
11:36:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion passes 6 to 1.
11:36:35 >>THE CLERK: The second reading of the ordinance will be
11:36:38 held November 1st at 9:30 a.m.
11:36:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you all very much for attending.
11:36:50 Item number 54. Item number 54.
11:37:33 >> The next case is V-12-292.
11:37:39 The property address is 2223 North Westshore Boulevard, unit
11:37:45 Applicant name is Tampa Westshore associates LP.
11:37:49 The recommendation by staff has found it consistent.
11:37:52 The current zoning district is PDA, planned development
11:37:56 alternative, and the proposed use is alcohol beverage sales,
11:37:59 beer wine and liquor associated with a small venue.
11:38:04 Offpremises consumption only within the international mall
11:38:08 Let me show you some photographs.
11:38:12 This application previously came before you back in June of
11:38:21 It was put into action by permit
11:38:26 This is the international mall area.
11:38:33 This is Tampa International Airport to the north.
11:38:36 I mean -- yes, to the north.
11:38:38 This is Boy Scout road.
11:38:40 This is the main complex.
11:38:41 And the little niche right hear.
11:38:44 The cheese factory.
11:38:45 And martini, do believe.
11:38:50 This is a closer area.
11:38:52 I was able to obtain the unit right in this area.
11:38:54 The international mall area.
11:39:00 According to the application submitted, the site is occupied
11:39:03 by International Mall complex.
11:39:04 The proposed alcohol sales area encompasses 1,517 square
11:39:10 feet of inside seating area and 904 square feet of outside
11:39:14 seating area for 2,421 square feet with total occupancy of
11:39:19 70 people.
11:39:20 The site utilizes numerous shared service and garage parking
11:39:24 for the mall site.
11:39:27 They are asking for no waivers.
11:39:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Petitioner?
11:39:39 >> Good afternoon. Anne Pollack, 305 South Boulevard.
11:39:45 This is a Spanish tapas restaurant.
11:39:51 There was a Starbuck's there a few years ago.
11:39:53 The space has been vacant for a while.
11:39:56 We have been looking for a good tenant.
11:39:57 Originally we were going to have a tobacco bar.
11:40:00 You may have recalled there was a big discussion about that.
11:40:02 But that fell through.
11:40:03 And so now they are looking to have this business come in.
11:40:10 I haven't gotten a police report but I did speak with
11:40:13 officer Miller and he told me that there were no issues that
11:40:16 he has found, and no complaints on this location.
11:40:24 Again, this is on Bay Street.
11:40:26 And we are actually asking for a waiver for distance to
11:40:30 other locations selling alcohol, because it's so close to
11:40:36 But it's for a small venue.
11:40:39 Thank you.
11:40:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone in the audience care to speak on
11:40:43 item 54, V-12-292?
11:40:47 Please come forward.
11:40:48 I see no one.
11:40:49 I have a motion to close by Mr. Suarez, seconded by Mr.
11:40:52 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
11:40:55 Opposed nay.
11:40:55 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:40:57 Mr. Reddick, would you kindly take number 54?
11:41:01 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move an ordinance for first reading
11:41:05 An ordinance repealing ordinance 2005-209 and ordinance
11:41:12 2011-64 approving a special use permit S-2 for alcoholic
11:41:16 beverage sales, restaurant on premises only, and making
11:41:21 lawful the sale of beverages regardless of alcoholic
11:41:24 content, beer, wine and liquor on that certain lot, plot or
11:41:28 tract of land located at 2223 North Westshore Boulevard,
11:41:32 unit B-227, Tampa, Florida as more particularly described in
11:41:37 section 2, that all ordinances or parts of ordinances in
11:41:41 conflict are repealed, providing an effective date.
11:41:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Reddick.
11:41:47 I have a second -- yes?
11:41:55 >> I'm sorry, I have been told there is an ordinance.
11:41:57 It needs to be small venue.
11:42:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, can you make an addendum to that in
11:42:03 the next five minutes?
11:42:07 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes.
11:42:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We will hold the vote and be back on 54.
11:42:16 Item 55, I believe there's a continuance coming.
11:42:21 Do you want to speak to that?
11:42:25 >> Petitioner Mark Bentley has asked for a continuance.
11:42:28 He's not in town today so he's asking for a continuance to
11:42:31 the November 15th hearing date.
11:42:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone to speak to number 55 for the
11:42:37 continuance portion only?
11:42:37 I see no one.
11:42:39 I have a motion by Mr. Reddick, seconded by Mr. Cohen, to
11:42:42 continue this hearing to November 15th at the time of
11:42:47 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
11:42:50 Opposed nay.
11:42:50 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:42:55 We are going to start with the next two, 57 and 58.
11:42:57 And when the good folks come back on 54, we will go back to
11:43:01 All right.
11:43:02 We'll stop that hearing where we are at and go back to 54.
11:43:05 Yes, sir.
11:43:06 >> Good morning.
11:43:11 Eric Cotton, Land Development Coordination.
11:43:13 This is an review of VR B-12-47.
11:43:23 6307 south Cameron Avenue.
11:43:26 They were requesting to reduce the side yard set back from
11:43:29 seven feet to three feet.
11:43:32 At the June 12, 2012 public hearing, the board denied the
11:43:37 A quick view of the site plan.
11:43:43 And you can see this is Cameron.
11:43:45 This is a side yard.
11:43:47 This is a screened-in porch that was constructed without
11:43:51 >> What did you say?
11:43:56 It's hard to hear you, sir.
11:43:57 I just couldn't hear what you said.
11:43:58 >> This is a screened-in porch that was constructed without
11:44:03 I have been told roughly a number of years ago, they filed
11:44:07 between five and ten years ago, and he was cited by code
11:44:12 enforcement and came in and was denied by the board.
11:44:16 He's appealing that denial to City Council.
11:44:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That was five or ten years ago?
11:44:21 >> That's what I have been told.
11:44:22 Somewhere in that time frame.
11:44:24 You can see in this picture, this is the main structure.
11:44:32 This is the porch addition.
11:44:35 Any questions, I will be glad to answer them for you.
11:44:37 >>MARY MULHERN: Do you have what you are showing us from
11:44:40 the overhead, do you have copies of the site plan, the
11:44:43 photograph, anything for us?
11:44:45 >>ERIC COTTON: I can --
11:44:46 >>MARY MULHERN: Because I don't think we have it.
11:45:51 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Did the owner of the residence do this
11:45:55 >> The property owner -- the current property owner
11:45:57 purchased the house in 2010.
11:45:59 The addition was done prayer to that, from what I
11:46:17 >>YVONNE CAPIN: (off microphone).
11:46:22 >>ERIC COTTON: That would be place.
11:46:24 They can't get a permit for it because it's encroaching into
11:46:27 the side yard setback.
11:46:32 >>YVONNE CAPIN: (off microphone) and the site plan through
11:46:36 the survey, it has to show that in that there were no -- I'm
11:46:40 wondering how does that happen?
11:46:42 How did these people buy this house --
11:46:45 >> With the encroachment already existing? That's a
11:46:48 question you have to ask the applicant.
11:46:50 He has legal representation.
11:46:52 She might be able to explain it to you better.
11:46:54 It would be on the title document, I imagine.
11:46:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me just say this.
11:46:59 This is one of thousands.
11:47:05 There are hundreds in West Tampa that have apartments
11:47:07 attached to the house.
11:47:08 I know it.
11:47:09 City knows it.
11:47:10 Everybody in the world knows it.
11:47:11 But there are so many of them, that's why we are having that
11:47:15 workshop in November.
11:47:16 I forget what day it is.
11:47:18 This is one of the things we are working on.
11:47:23 Now you are holding not us, the way the rules are written,
11:47:27 it is due diligence of the party who buys the property to
11:47:31 make sure that everything is legal.
11:47:35 There's only one problem with that.
11:47:37 No matter who does the survey, they don't know if it's legal
11:47:41 or not.
11:47:42 They don't know if that permanent got a permit.
11:47:44 They don't know what that prayer owner did or the prior,
11:47:47 prior, prior, prior owner did, and things change, and
11:47:53 there's got to be a way of solving these things, because the
11:47:57 way it is, unless it's done at the time of sale, that
11:48:01 somebody signs off, that everything is according to the
11:48:03 rules and records and regulations of the city, and hold them
11:48:11 But I'm going to stop now because I don't want to in any way
11:48:14 jeopardize this hearing.
11:48:15 And we go to Mrs. Mulhern.
11:48:16 >>MARY MULHERN: I thought you were going to pass out the
11:48:21 But could you put the photographs back up so we can see what
11:48:23 it looks like?
11:48:25 >>ERIC COTTON: Yes, ma'am.
11:48:31 This is the addition right here.
11:48:32 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, it in the back?
11:48:34 >> You can see it from the street.
11:48:35 It on the side.
11:48:36 >>MARY MULHERN: Toward the side. Can you tell us what
11:48:42 What neighborhood is it in?
11:48:46 It's south of Gandy?
11:48:51 >> Like Bay to Bay.
11:48:56 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
11:48:58 >>ERIC COTTON: Actually, I don't have that right off the
11:49:02 I don't have it written on the application.
11:49:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
11:49:05 >> any other council members at this time?
11:49:13 All right.
11:49:17 >> I'm hear representing Michael Reynolds, the owner of the
11:49:24 Before I start, it would be out of line if I requested two
11:49:28 extra minutes?
11:49:29 I have tried very hard to whittle my presentation down to
11:49:32 get it within the 15.
11:49:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, your time has started so you have
11:49:36 taken one of those minutes.
11:49:37 Go on.
11:49:37 I see there's no green in front of you so that's why I am
11:49:40 saying that.
11:49:43 We'll see what happens.
11:49:44 >> Okay, sir.
11:49:46 Thank you.
11:49:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, if I can, if you would like,
11:49:52 there's a rule that speaks to that, if you wish me to talk
11:49:55 about that.
11:49:55 Otherwise I'll defer.
11:49:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: A what now?
11:49:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A rule that speaks to extra time.
11:50:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let's find out what we have.
11:50:02 I'm tired of rules.
11:50:03 There's so many resumes.
11:50:04 There's rules that tell you what to do and what not to do
11:50:07 when you can and can't do them.
11:50:08 Go on.
11:50:09 >>> Yes, sir.
11:50:11 To clarify, this property is south of Gandy.
11:50:14 It's very close to MacDill Air Force Base gate.
11:50:18 Mr. Reynolds purchased this property back in October of
11:50:23 And at the time he purchased it, this porch or lanai was
11:50:28 already in place.
11:50:28 I personally spoke with the prior property owner.
11:50:32 This was constructed in 2002.
11:50:35 At the time that it was constructed, the adjacent property
11:50:38 owner, his name is Mr. Ford, who I believe is here, and is
11:50:42 going to object today, he also was in residence at that time
11:50:46 next door.
11:50:46 His residency there preceded construction of the porch and
11:50:51 he's been here ever since.
11:50:53 And the reason I brought that up is it's his complaint that
11:50:57 precipitated my client's needs to apply for this variance
11:51:00 because up until that time there hasn't been any complaints
11:51:04 or any sort of issues pertaining to the porch whatsoever.
11:51:08 Also of interest, pursuant to my investigation, there hasn't
11:51:13 been any sort of city action or code enforcement issues
11:51:16 whatsoever regarding this porch all the way from 2002
11:51:20 through the time in January of 2011.
11:51:25 That's the standard time this existed with no issue
11:51:28 My clients, I would consider, is an innocent purchaser, and
11:51:31 that was an issue that you all raised.
11:51:34 Basically, yes, he was represented by a real estate
11:51:37 Yes, there was a survey.
11:51:39 There was no disclosure to him whatsoever that this
11:51:41 structure was not permitted, that there was a setback issue.
11:51:45 He had no idea that there was something looming in the
11:51:48 future of his possession of his property that was going to
11:51:50 come back after he purchased it, after he closed on it, and
11:51:54 there was nothing.
11:51:55 So how I consider him is an innocent purchaser, and I would
11:51:59 hope that for the purposes of your consideration that you
11:52:00 do, too.
11:52:02 And in light of that, I have a couple of legal theories
11:52:07 which I know is going to be a little boring but I would like
11:52:12 to say it up front in case I do run out of time that I want
11:52:15 to put forth.
11:52:16 And I believe that possibly the theory of latches and
11:52:20 equitable estoppel may apply here to him.
11:52:22 And although those theories may be better suited to an
11:52:25 enforcement action, because we are here on a variance
11:52:28 appeal, I think that they would come in to play for the
11:52:31 purposes of considering whether substantial justice would be
11:52:35 done today, if a variance is granted, if he does have these
11:52:40 legal defenses at his disposal.
11:52:42 So basically, in terms of laches, I look to the case of
11:52:51 Bennett versus city of Miami which is a 2005 case.
11:52:54 There are four elements.
11:52:57 I'm sorry?
11:52:59 >>MARY MULHERN: Can I just say -- we only have one lawyer
11:53:01 up here.
11:53:02 What is that term, latches?
11:53:05 Like "latch"?
11:53:06 >> L-A-C-H-E-S.
11:53:09 >>MARY MULHERN: What does that mean?
11:53:12 >> Basically I can describe to you what the elements are and
11:53:15 that will give you an idea of what the element is and how
11:53:18 the facts of our situation -- I gave you a very brief
11:53:21 scenario of the facts which I am going elaborate on, how it
11:53:24 applies to that.
11:53:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
11:53:26 >>> Basically, there are four elements, the first of which
11:53:30 is conduct on the part of the defendant giving rise to the
11:53:33 situation of which the complaint is made.
11:53:36 Now, obviously, my client did not build this porch but the
11:53:42 case basically says that doesn't matter.
11:53:44 What matters is you took possession of this property with
11:53:46 the structure in place.
11:53:49 He utilized it not knowing it was an illegal structure, and
11:53:52 did so open and obviously, and that is when the complaint
11:53:57 came in that has now given rise to the problem that's before
11:54:01 So the first prong of latches has been met in that regard.
11:54:05 The second element is failure of the plaintiff having
11:54:08 knowledge or notice of the conditions but failing to assert
11:54:16 its rights.
11:54:17 In this case the plaintiff is the city.
11:54:18 And basically you are going to see from the pictures I
11:54:21 have -- one was already shown to you -- I'm sorry.
11:54:28 This condition is very open and obvious.
11:54:33 This porch can be seen from the street, from any passer-by,
11:54:37 and anybody who knows what the set back requirements would
11:54:40 be in this neighborhood can see that this does encroach on
11:54:42 the setback.
11:54:43 So basically, that's one way to say that knowledge could be
11:54:50 imputed, but I have something that's one step better than.
11:54:53 I did look into the city records to see what activity was
11:54:55 going on in the neighborhood.
11:54:56 And in 2008 for the property that's immediately across the
11:55:00 street, if you stand in his driveway and see it there, was
11:55:03 an enforcement action against the property, right across the
11:55:06 street, that concerns unpermitted enclosure of a screened
11:55:10 porch to make an additional room.
11:55:11 And there was a ton of activity on that case, which
11:55:14 precipitated multiple visits to that property.
11:55:17 By the very departments that would have taken care of this,
11:55:20 if it had been an issue that needed to be taken care of.
11:55:26 So basically, it's our position that the city had knowledge,
11:55:29 and the base of the knowledge is what a reasonable person
11:55:33 under the same conditions, would they have had knowledge.
11:55:38 And city officials or employees are dealing with a like
11:55:42 issue a cross the street, they obviously would have seen
11:55:46 And the third element is a lack of knowledge on the part of
11:55:48 the defendant, the plaintiff will assert the right that is
11:55:52 now being complained of, because this lanai or porch existed
11:55:56 unfettered, open and obvious for nearly a decade.
11:55:59 I mean, no complaints, nothing.
11:56:01 It's reasonable and logical that my client would have a lack
11:56:04 of knowledge that after he purchases the home that there's
11:56:08 going to be some subsequent action on it.
11:56:09 And then, of course, the last element is injury or
11:56:13 That's kind of self-explanatory.
11:56:16 If he makes him take it down, obviously there's the cost of
11:56:18 repairing the house, the loss of value, loss of use.
11:56:22 That's self-explanatory.
11:56:24 And then the next is the equitable estoppel, kind of like
11:56:29 the sister argument to this one, and the cases I look to for
11:56:32 those elements is cashier versus Miami-Dade county code
11:56:35 enforcement which is a 2007 case.
11:56:38 And the elements are, a property owner in good faith
11:56:41 reliance upon some act or omission has made such a distinct
11:56:46 or change of position or has incurred such substantial
11:56:49 change oh of position or has incurred such extensive
11:56:52 obligations, that it would be highly inequitable to destroy
11:56:57 the rights that he acquired.
11:56:59 In this situation, my client had knowledge that this
11:57:01 improvement has been there for a long time.
11:57:04 And as you can see very open and obvious improvements to
11:57:07 this property that we find out it's about there since 2002.
11:57:11 There had been no action by the city all that time.
11:57:14 So there was no reason to question the legality of this
11:57:17 improvement after nearly a decade of silence.
11:57:19 There's implicit reliance on the part of my client that it
11:57:23 simply is not going to be an issue.
11:57:25 Obviously, my client substantially changed his position
11:57:28 because he purchased the house.
11:57:30 He spent his life savings doing this.
11:57:31 He also incurred additional debt.
11:57:34 A mortgage on the house as well.
11:57:35 So it would be highly inequitable to have to make him pull
11:57:41 the structure down, and this is 15.5% of the area of his
11:57:47 I got that right off the property appraiser's database
11:57:50 because they have on there, too, as part of the taxable
11:57:53 value of his house.
11:57:54 He's paying taxes on this.
11:57:55 So I want to also show you some more pictures of the
11:57:59 And that's the end of my legal argument.
11:58:01 I want to show you some of the exterior pictures of the
11:58:04 house because I think it's important for you to really
11:58:06 understand how integral this is to the main house.
11:58:11 But first I am going to show you another view of the porch.
11:58:20 You can see here the distance between the side of the porch
11:58:26 and Mr. Ford's house, which is his house right here, and
11:58:30 even though it is in the setback, there is substantial space
11:58:33 in between the side of the porch and Mr. Ford's house.
11:58:37 Also note how nicely kept this house is.
11:58:39 And I will say I'm the one who took these pictures.
11:58:43 This is the nice nicest house in the entire neighborhood.
11:58:50 The next picture to show you is the front of the lanai.
11:58:53 The purpose of this picture, it has been integrated into the
11:58:55 siding of the house.
11:58:56 And the whole purpose of that, this is not going to be
11:58:58 something that's going to be easily extricated from the
11:59:02 The next picture I want to show you is the rain gutters that
11:59:12 run along the side.
11:59:16 They have implemented rain control, water control structures
11:59:20 on this, with downspouts to make sure that there is not a
11:59:23 water problem, run-off to the adjacent property.
11:59:28 And the downspout actually diverts the waters down the
11:59:33 driveway, not to the adjacent property.
11:59:34 And the reason why I'm bringing this up is because there was
11:59:37 a prior argument made that this is causing flooding issues
11:59:40 on the adjacent property.
11:59:48 This is the porch, the lanai.
11:59:51 And again, the gutter, you can see runs all the way around
11:59:55 with downspouts, so they are very much controlling the water
11:59:59 coming off that roof.
12:00:00 And again you see right hear it is very much integrated into
12:00:03 the main structure.
12:00:04 It's attached to the roof.
12:00:05 This has become part and parcel of the main dwelling and it
12:00:08 has been like that since 2002.
12:00:12 This picture, I believe, is very important for you to take
12:00:17 note of, because it shows where the roof of the lanai ends
12:00:22 and the top of the fence.
12:00:23 This is Mr. Ford's privacy fence begins.
12:00:26 And the reason why I'm showing you this is I want to you see
12:00:29 that the roof does not overlap over that fence.
12:00:31 And again, this goes to the argument that you are probably
12:00:34 going to hear about the water coming off the roof, into his
12:00:39 yard, causing mud to splash up onto his house which has been
12:00:43 an argument that he's made.
12:00:45 I took this picture.
12:00:47 You can't obviously judge the distance necessarily from this
12:00:50 picture, but I can attest there's at least two feet if not
12:00:54 more from the side of his fence to the top of his roof,
12:00:59 horizontally speaking.
12:01:01 And in regards to the total distance, this is the front
12:01:07 portion of the privacy fence.
12:01:08 That's an 8-foot span of fence.
12:01:11 So you have eight feet here.
12:01:12 And then an additional, at least, two feet before that water
12:01:16 could ever reach the side of his house.
12:01:19 So I'm not sure exactly how that would be possible for the
12:01:21 run-off to reach the side of his house.
12:01:24 But what is interesting to note is that he's got no gutters
12:01:28 on his house.
12:01:29 And you can see the water damage up in his eves as well as
12:01:32 the streaking down the side of his house.
12:01:34 So if he is incurring the type of damage that he says he is,
12:01:37 it's probably from the fact that he doesn't have gutters on
12:01:39 his own house to control the run-off from his roof.
12:01:46 Now, the last picture I want to show you in regards to the
12:01:49 lanai, I want to show you the interior, because there's been
12:01:52 some comments made -- and it's not really a room.
12:01:55 This is a room.
12:01:56 And this is like a little oasis, a little gym that was the
12:02:00 selling point of this house when my client bought it.
12:02:04 And this is exactly the way it was but for different
12:02:07 furniture when my client bought it.
12:02:09 This hot tub here, it was built around this hot tub.
12:02:12 This was the original hot tub in 2002.
12:02:16 Yes, sir?
12:02:17 Oh, I'm sorry.
12:02:18 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I may interrupt you.
12:02:21 >>HARRY COHEN: We do need a motion to continue on.
12:02:24 >>MIKE SUAREZ: So moved.
12:02:27 >> Second.
12:02:27 >>HARRY COHEN: So for how long?
12:02:30 >>MIKE SUAREZ: For 15 minutes.
12:02:31 A half hour.
12:02:32 >>HARRY COHEN: Okay.
12:02:34 Thank you.
12:02:34 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Could I ask one?
12:02:37 Mrs. Olson, when did they buy the house, your clients?
12:02:41 >>> October 2010.
12:02:43 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And when did they get cited?
12:02:47 >>> January 2011.
12:02:49 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And from what you have been able to
12:02:54 gather -- and I apologize from interrupting because do you
12:02:57 have your set time.
12:02:58 I think it's been suspended.
12:03:01 I want to make sure she knows we understand what she's
12:03:04 trying to get at.
12:03:05 But in terms of when -- has there ever been a complaint
12:03:13 prior to this?
12:03:14 >> No.
12:03:16 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Have there been some complaints that have
12:03:19 nothing to do with the long eye but have something to do
12:03:23 with personality?
12:03:24 >>> Yes.
12:03:24 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
12:03:27 Just a yes.
12:03:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm sorry, I was busy doing something
12:03:37 >> She's going to continue on.
12:03:39 >> It was more than just a room.
12:03:40 The only thing that my client has done different is that
12:03:42 he's put up some draperies for privacy and put up his own
12:03:47 furniture but everything else is the same as when it
12:03:49 purchased it in 2002 all the way down to the beautiful tile
12:03:53 on the floor.
12:03:53 This 313 square feet of the entire gross area of his house.
12:04:00 And again I got that off the property appraiser's database.
12:04:08 So in looking at the issues for variance, whether you want
12:04:12 to call it practical difficulties or unnecessary hardship, I
12:04:15 would exert to you that either of those conditions would
12:04:17 apply to Mr. Reynolds.
12:04:20 As you can see from the pictures of this lanai, it would
12:04:22 have to be professionally extricated from the house.
12:04:26 And not only would he lose the beneficial value or
12:04:29 beneficial use of 16.5% of the gross area of the home, but
12:04:33 it would be that decrease in market value, obviously.
12:04:38 But he doesn't have the financial means to do this.
12:04:41 He really did expend his life savings purchasing this home.
12:04:44 Obviously if he can't afford to do that, he can't afford to
12:04:47 recreate this in a different area of the yard if that's
12:04:51 available to him either.
12:04:52 So anyway you slice it it's going to be a loss to him, a
12:04:56 hardship to him.
12:04:57 So it would be inherently inequitable not to consider that
12:05:02 type of hardship, the financial impact or the financial
12:05:06 constraints under these circumstances when he has nothing to
12:05:09 do with the problem that he is now facing.
12:05:14 And granting the request for variance is also in harmony
12:05:17 with the surrounding neighborhood.
12:05:19 You know, just by virtue of the fact that this thing has
12:05:22 remained there from 2002 until January of January 2011
12:05:29 without complaint, without problem, kind of infers that it
12:05:31 must be in harmony.
12:05:33 But also, these types of encouragements and setbacks,
12:05:37 whether permitted or not, it seems to be something that's
12:05:40 been accepted by this neighborhood.
12:05:41 And I don't want to say like overlooked or subdivide
12:05:48 accepted by the city but accepted by the subdivision.
12:05:51 And things that I found when I looked at the neighborhood
12:05:54 and every one of these is within a block or two of his
12:05:58 4101 land.
12:06:00 And this structure obviously is encroaching into the setback
12:06:05 of the property.
12:06:07 It's the same subdivision.
12:06:13 This is on Clark.
12:06:22 And as you are looking at these, 6406 Clark, and these are
12:06:25 not new things.
12:06:26 These have been here a long, long time.
12:06:29 This is another view of that same --
12:06:35 (Bell sounds)
12:06:35 May I have some more time, sir?
12:06:37 This is 6412 Clark.
12:06:40 And this is another view of 6412 Clark.
12:06:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me stop one second.
12:06:45 I know you are going to run out of time.
12:06:46 But this is the way I view this, this is going to be maybe
12:06:50 changing of idealisms for a long time to come in the city
12:06:54 one way or the other.
12:06:56 So I am going ask the council to allow an additional five
12:06:59 >>> Thank you, sir.
12:07:00 I appreciate that very much.
12:07:02 One of the reasons, too, that I bring these encouragements
12:07:06 that seem to have been there for a long time up, when you
12:07:09 have a perspective buyer, driving down this neighborhood and
12:07:14 seeing these things that have obviously been in existence
12:07:16 for a long time, and then has something on his property that
12:07:22 is much nicer and professionally done, and he's not had any
12:07:27 disclosure by the professionals representing him that
12:07:30 there's an issue, that is all that much more reasonable that
12:07:35 why he would push it when this is what he sees in the
12:07:40 And this is an example of the view.
12:07:41 Ways about to get lynched by people for taking pictures of
12:07:45 the property so I had to stop.
12:07:47 But if a variance was granted, it supports my client's
12:07:51 positions that it would not substantially interfere with or
12:07:56 injury the public health or safety or welfare of others.
12:07:59 And I have a very strong feeling, based on what was just
12:08:04 asked of me, also that there's going to be people here to
12:08:07 say to the contrary, specifically the adjacent property
12:08:09 owner, and, you know, Mr. Ford sat quiet for a long, long
12:08:14 time before he brought his complaint up in January of 2011,
12:08:18 and it kind of beg it is question of what's different now
12:08:21 than what was in existence all those prior years?
12:08:25 He was there when this porch was constructed.
12:08:28 But he didn't say anything.
12:08:30 And there is one glaring difference.
12:08:32 And I am extremely reticent to bring this up, but sometimes
12:08:36 you have to talk about things that are a little difficult.
12:08:38 So I am just going to say it.
12:08:40 My client and his partner are a same sex couple.
12:08:43 And they moved in.
12:08:45 They have had nothing but problems with Mr. Ford.
12:08:47 And it has escalated to the point where Mr. Ford has filed a
12:08:51 petition for injunction against him.
12:08:54 He dropped it the morning of the hearing before we ever got
12:08:58 a chance to get in front of that judge, and had everything
12:09:00 heard out.
12:09:01 And why I am bringing this up to you is that there's a
12:09:05 mind-set involved here, and I believe that the motivations
12:09:09 at play in regards to his complaints regarding this are ill
12:09:17 One of the motions to amend the injunction for protection,
12:09:23 third allegation down, he put -- respondent moved next door
12:09:28 to the petitioner in October 2010 and resides as a same sex
12:09:34 Now, I don't know how everybody else might view that, but I
12:09:39 have talked to my friend who are same sex couples, and
12:09:43 basically the general consensus is you don't talk about
12:09:47 this, you don't put it out there for consideration or
12:09:50 general discussion or in a pleading unless it is relevant to
12:09:54 what's going on, unless it's meant to be derogatory.
12:09:56 And I defended this case and there was no relevance to
12:10:02 putting that in there.
12:10:03 So the whole point is as innocuous as that mate seem, it
12:10:07 shows the mind-set of the harassment that's been going on
12:10:10 here and I believe this whole venue has been used as a tool
12:10:13 against my client.
12:10:15 But I just have to bring that up when you are thinking about
12:10:17 the arguments that may be being made here.
12:10:25 So in considering whether substantial justice would be done
12:10:29 balancing both the benefits and the individual hardships
12:10:34 that would be suffered if the variance is denied, I would
12:10:36 just please ask you to remember that my client is really,
12:10:40 truly the innocent purchaser.
12:10:42 He didn't have flying to do with this.
12:10:44 He's not one that might come in front of you that had a hand
12:10:47 in actually building the illegal structure, or went beyond
12:10:50 the parameters of the permit.
12:10:53 You know, he did what he believed was his due diligence by
12:10:59 hiring the real estate professional that failed him, and
12:11:02 being that case, there doesn't seem to be any parent
12:11:06 legitimate health and safety or welfare issues at play here.
12:11:12 The loss that he would suffer financially is the F the
12:11:15 variance is denied is truly inequitable in this circumstance
12:11:18 because he doesn't have the financial wherewithal to rectify
12:11:22 the situation on his own, and that also goes to, you know,
12:11:26 maybe there are other avenues that he could pursue.
12:11:29 But, you know, it takes money to pursue those other avenues.
12:11:32 So he's kind of caught between a rock and a hard place.
12:11:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
12:11:40 We are go going to hold one second.
12:11:41 I did promise 54 that was read by Mr. Reddick and it was a
12:11:46 title change on the ordinance.
12:11:47 And is that ordinance ready now?
12:11:49 May I have it, please?
12:11:52 Mr. Reddick, will you read it into the record again?
12:11:54 And I'm sorry.
12:11:55 >>MARY MULHERN: I need a little explanation about that,
12:12:02 this 54, about the change in the title of the ordinance, the
12:12:09 change in what the zoning that we are approving.
12:12:12 Can you explain the change from restaurant to --
12:12:21 >>> It's not technically a change.
12:12:23 I think it's just a mistake made by staff.
12:12:25 The expectation is that this will be a restaurant.
12:12:27 But on the chance that they cannot always meet the 51-49
12:12:32 percent, we have decided to apply as a small venue, which it
12:12:39 is, and that really is what we had always requested, what
12:12:44 had been reviewed by staff, but I think there was just some
12:12:47 confusion because of the idea that it is technically a
12:12:53 restaurant, and that's what is proposed.
12:12:56 But the change wasn't reflected, or the fact that it's a
12:13:03 small venue wasn't properly reflected in the staff report
12:13:07 and in the ordinance.
12:13:08 And I think this kind of comes from initially some confusion
12:13:14 in the way that the code and the application requires us to
12:13:19 request what we are requesting.
12:13:22 We are no longer using terms like 4(COP), 4(COP-X),
12:13:28 We are using beer, wine, liquor for consumption on premises
12:13:33 only, and I think there's some additional terms where they
12:13:36 talk about small venue or they talk about restaurant, and
12:13:40 that's where the confusion arose.
12:13:43 So --
12:13:46 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know who made that error, but it's
12:13:48 a big change in what you are asking for from us, who are the
12:13:52 people who decide.
12:13:54 >> Sure, sure.
12:13:55 >>MARY MULHERN: I mean, is it a restaurant or is it a bar?
12:13:58 Isn't that what the difference is?
12:14:00 We are saying it can be a bar.
12:14:01 >> It's allowing sales greater than 49% of alcohol.
12:14:09 I mean, again, it's not what's intended, but because it's a
12:14:14 small site and because they are looking for the opportunity
12:14:18 to not necessarily have to live by the 51%.
12:14:21 >>MARY MULHERN: You know what?
12:14:23 Because of the way that this was presented to us, I'm not
12:14:26 going to vote for changing it to small venue.
12:14:29 I don't understand how, you know, we have a hearing, and
12:14:36 then basically the rights that we are being asked to give
12:14:41 are changed, after the hearing is closed, and now we are
12:14:44 going to vote on it.
12:14:45 >> If I may, also, when Joel presented it to you, he did
12:14:51 correct in what he was presenting.
12:14:53 He explained that it was a small venue, not a restaurant.
12:14:56 >>MARY MULHERN: But in your presentation it was a
12:14:59 It was a tapas restaurant, isn't it?
12:15:03 >> It is planned to be a restaurant. It's just not planned
12:15:06 to meet the restaurant regulations for an alcohol approval
12:15:10 associated with the restaurant.
12:15:14 But on the chance that they cannot, the idea was to request
12:15:18 it as a small venue, just as had been requested for the
12:15:23 tobacco bar that was approved previously for this site.
12:15:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me do this.
12:15:29 Let me open the hearing right quickly I.
12:15:31 I don't want to leave anything out of the order.
12:15:33 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Move to open item 54.
12:15:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seconded by Mr. Cohen on a close vote
12:15:39 with Mrs. Capin.
12:15:41 All in favor?
12:15:42 Yes, ma'am.
12:15:42 >>MARY MULHERN: And I remember that.
12:15:46 It was a cigar bar.
12:15:47 Is that what it was?
12:15:49 >> Corrected.
12:15:50 >>MARY MULHERN: So this -- this is not what I was hearing
12:15:57 as the case was presented.
12:15:59 But what was the cigar bar?
12:16:09 Was it just going to be beer and wine?
12:16:11 What's the difference?
12:16:15 >> No, I believe beer, wine and liquor.
12:16:18 But it was in association with tobacco business.
12:16:21 And because of the way the regulations are now, you really
12:16:24 have to be specific, and that tobacco bar use is slightly
12:16:32 different than just calling it, I guess, a small venue,
12:16:34 which is a small business.
12:16:35 >>MARY MULHERN: So what we gave them was it was basically a
12:16:40 cigar bar?
12:16:42 >>> Correct, correct.
12:16:43 So, I mean --
12:16:44 >>MARY MULHERN: I understand.
12:16:45 >> And I think this is really going to be better for the
12:16:50 site, now.
12:16:51 There were some concerns about having a tobacco bar in this
12:16:56 public-private area, and now they are really looking to have
12:16:59 a nice restaurant, but we would ask basically for the same
12:17:04 approval for alcohol sales.
12:17:10 And I apologize, that it's seem like a change coming before
12:17:15 But this is something that we have asked for from the
12:17:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, yeah.
12:17:20 I don't know whose fault the error was but when it comes to
12:17:25 us like that, I mean, this is all we do is decide these
12:17:29 So details are important.
12:17:32 I'm satisfied.
12:17:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other council members?
12:17:36 Since there's been some dialogue, does anyone in the
12:17:39 audience care to speak on this item 54 again?
12:17:41 I see no one.
12:17:43 I need a motion to close.
12:17:45 Motion by Mrs. Capin and on a close vote with Mrs. Capin.
12:17:51 Mr. Reddick, will you please read the ordinance?
12:17:55 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move an ordinance being presented for
12:17:57 first reading consideration.
12:17:58 An ordinance repealing ordinance number 2005-209 and
12:18:03 ordinance number 2011-64 approving a special use permit S-2
12:18:11 for alcohol you can beverage sales, small venue on premises
12:18:16 only and making lawful the sale of beverages regardless of
12:18:19 alcoholic content, beer, wine and liquor, on that certain
12:18:22 lot, plot or tract of land located at 2223 North Westshore
12:18:27 Boulevard, unit B-227, Tampa, Florida as more particularly
12:18:33 described in section 3 and all ordinances or parts of
12:18:37 ordinances in conflict are repealed, providing an effective
12:18:40 >> Second.
12:18:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seconded by Mr. Suarez.
12:18:45 All in favor of the motion? Opposed nay?
12:18:47 Motion passes unanimously.
12:18:49 I apologize.
12:18:50 I am going to ask the council for an additional, I don't
12:18:54 know, looks Luke we have two thirty minutes.
12:18:57 But I got this hearing and the other one coming.
12:18:59 So I need 30 minutes.
12:19:03 I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione, seconded by Mr. Cohen.
12:19:06 All in favor?
12:19:08 The ayes have it unanimously.
12:19:09 I apologize for those here on 57.
12:19:12 But I did make a promise.
12:19:13 I'm trying to hold up to it.
12:19:15 We continue with 57.
12:19:21 We heard from the representative of the petitioner Laura
12:19:24 Now we hear from anyone in the audience to speak on this
12:19:26 subject matter.
12:19:27 Please come forward.
12:19:28 >> I'm sorry, the second reading of that ordinance that was
12:19:32 just read will be held November 1st at 9:30 a.m.
12:19:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
12:19:37 >> My name is Douglas Hoard.
12:19:43 I'm Mr. Reynold neighbor.
12:19:45 And the understanding here that he was unaware of any
12:19:50 problems with that structure is completely untrue.
12:19:53 I spoke to the realtor Kay Ball that was involved in the
12:19:58 sale of the home.
12:20:00 Ms. Ball, she works for Keller realtor, Keller and Williams
12:20:05 Realty, and she informed me that he signed off on the
12:20:12 seller's real property disclosure, and he was aware that
12:20:18 there was a variance problem with that, and an encroachment
12:20:22 when he bought the home.
12:20:24 I tried to retrieve the document from the Bayshore Title
12:20:28 Company, and of course they would not give it to me.
12:20:31 I called the city clerk because I am not represented by an
12:20:34 I asked city clerk to please speak to this city attorney,
12:20:40 see if they could retrieve the document for me.
12:20:43 Through subpoena.
12:20:45 It was denied.
12:20:46 But he was well aware of that structure.
12:20:50 And there was no problems with the trophies who previously
12:20:54 lived there.
12:20:54 And Mr. Reynolds has been -- well, anyway, we have had the
12:20:59 police out there three times.
12:21:01 Every time the police have been out there, he's been
12:21:04 completely disrespectful to them when they told him to quiet
12:21:08 down, all from that illegal structure.
12:21:12 And that's what it is.
12:21:13 It's an illegal structure.
12:21:14 It does not belong there.
12:21:17 The way I found out that it was illegal, Gary troupe of Gary
12:21:24 construction was pricing a new ref to me.
12:21:27 I went ahead and had the roof put on.
12:21:30 That's what those pictures on.
12:21:32 It's not rotting wood.
12:21:33 There's no wood out there and I am in the process of
12:21:38 Harry explained to me that I need to go to zoning because I
12:21:40 told him about the problems coming from that structure.
12:21:43 So I went to zoning, and that was in December -- sorry,
12:21:47 January of 2012.
12:21:48 They told me that there was no variance and no permit.
12:21:52 They turned it over to code enforcement.
12:21:54 Code enforcement said remove the structure.
12:21:56 The Variance Review Board said unanimously, remove the
12:22:03 And because of Mr. Reynold' behavior, threats to my wife, my
12:22:07 daughter, threaten to kill my dog three times, I went ahead
12:22:10 and got a temporary injunction for repeat threats of
12:22:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anything else, sir?
12:22:17 >> And that's all from that structure.
12:22:20 That's all I have to say.
12:22:20 Thank you.
12:22:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, sir.
12:22:22 Next, please.
12:22:23 >>> Yes.
12:22:30 I'm Gary Troupe with a company called Riva Construction.
12:22:36 I'm a general contractor.
12:22:37 I live over in Beach Park.
12:22:38 What I did was I went to look at his roof, and he made the
12:22:44 mention about the structure next door.
12:22:45 This is sometime in December.
12:22:48 Last year.
12:22:49 And I told him that they would have had to get some kind of
12:22:53 a variance for it.
12:22:54 And there was a couple of other issues.
12:22:58 There is the electrical width that supplies the house goes
12:23:01 right over the top of this carport or metal structure that
12:23:06 he has there.
12:23:06 And that's a code violation by itself.
12:23:12 It's a state license safety issue.
12:23:19 What was I going to say about it?
12:23:21 Oh, another thing, since you showed the pictures, could I
12:23:27 take one of those pictures and show you where the property
12:23:30 line actually is?
12:23:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't know what -- you are asking me to
12:23:37 rule on something.
12:23:38 I don't know anything about property lines.
12:23:41 We are hear on a decision of the variance review board.
12:23:45 That was part of the record.
12:23:46 And that was discussed.
12:23:49 Maybe it's not.
12:23:49 I don't know.
12:23:50 This is a de novo which is a new hearing.
12:23:52 >> What I was going to show is on the picture where she's
12:23:56 got the picture of Mr. Ford's privacy fence, there is a pole
12:24:01 right next to it that's underneath the overhang of this
12:24:04 structure, and that's chain link fence that divides the two
12:24:08 pieces of property and that's actually where the property
12:24:11 line is.
12:24:11 Thank you.
12:24:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
12:24:13 Next, please.
12:24:14 >>> My name is Elizabeth Ford.
12:24:22 I live at 6309 south Cameron Avenue.
12:24:27 I would like it to be taken down because I have been
12:24:32 threatened repeatedly.
12:24:34 I have had the police out there.
12:24:35 I told the police officers my life is in danger.
12:24:40 The officers told me if anything happens to call.
12:24:44 He actually told me to get a weapon.
12:24:49 I did.
12:24:50 But it's sad that I have to sleep next to a weapon because
12:24:54 I'm scared, I'm terrified, because the violence that comes
12:24:59 from that room.
12:25:01 He screams.
12:25:02 He yells.
12:25:04 Actually after you guys, the last meeting, the last hearing,
12:25:09 when you guys denied it, three days after is when he
12:25:13 threatened me from that room.
12:25:16 My bedroom is right there.
12:25:18 And he was making threats that he was going to get me, he
12:25:21 was going to get me back.
12:25:23 I called an officer out there.
12:25:25 The officers came out.
12:25:27 He ran inside from that structure into his home.
12:25:31 The officer knocked on the door.
12:25:32 He wouldn't answer.
12:25:35 The officer stayed at my house for about 45 minutes and
12:25:40 stayed with me and talked to me and told me it was going to
12:25:44 be okay, and anything that I could have as a weapon at the
12:25:47 time in the house to have it with me.
12:25:51 He threatened to kill my dog three times.
12:25:54 Three times.
12:25:58 I have the report from officers that came out there every
12:26:05 >> Do we have the police reports?
12:26:19 >> They didn't actually make a report because he ran inside
12:26:22 the house.
12:26:23 These are --
12:26:25 >> Usually it's something that the officer --
12:26:30 >> The report number is on there.
12:26:31 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
12:26:35 That says report number.
12:26:38 And then the other two --
12:26:40 >> He said there is in a report.
12:26:41 >> There must be some piece of paper with a number on it.
12:26:44 >> I went there.
12:26:45 I got these specifically.
12:26:47 >> This is a business card.
12:26:48 Because I made police reports myself on illegal dumping and
12:26:52 they give me the business card like that with the report
12:26:56 number on it, and then I request a copy when the report is
12:27:01 That's why I am asking.
12:27:02 >> I asked for a report.
12:27:04 They said that that's all they could give me.
12:27:07 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay.
12:27:09 >> But as you can see, June 16th was when -- that was
12:27:15 the night that I called.
12:27:16 And I want to say the meeting we had was three days before
12:27:21 And it was denied.
12:27:24 And that's when he lost control and obviously under the
12:27:28 influence of something and threatened my life, my mother's
12:27:34 life, and this was 12:00 at night when all this is going on.
12:27:40 I hear everything that's that goes on from that bedroom
12:27:43 because my room -- I'm sorry, from that structure, because
12:27:46 my room is right next to that.
12:27:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other council members?
12:28:00 >> I will have more questions later.
12:28:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other council members at this time?
12:28:04 Thank you very much.
12:28:06 Okay, petitioner, you have rebuttal time.
12:28:08 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I think we have somebody else that wants
12:28:14 to speak.
12:28:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else wants to speak?
12:28:16 I'm sorry, come on forward, please.
12:28:26 >>> Thank you.
12:28:39 I'm Ken Ford.
12:28:41 And I'm an old retired GI.
12:28:46 And I maintain the bedroom in the back part of that home
12:28:53 since '89.
12:28:57 And when that structure was put up there, there was no
12:29:07 Everything was quiet.
12:29:11 And since the last tenants moved in next door is when the
12:29:18 problems started.
12:29:25 I was awakened late at night one night by the neighbor
12:29:36 calling -- cursing and calling names, and he alluded to a
12:29:52 Mexican calling the police, a Cuban calling the police, and
12:29:58 a Puerto Rican calling the police.
12:30:02 It was none of those.
12:30:04 It was me that called the police.
12:30:11 And people shouldn't have to put up with something like
12:30:16 And these tantrums I have listened to a couple times.
12:30:27 Thank you.
12:30:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, sir.
12:30:29 Anyone else that has not spoken that would care to speak?
12:30:42 >> My name is -- I live at 6309.
12:30:50 That structure is illegal.
12:30:52 It's not supposed to be there.
12:30:54 Also because the next neighbor, he starts screaming at us
12:30:59 for no reason.
12:31:00 He starts saying, I hate Mexicans, that he would kill us, he
12:31:07 would kill our dog, and nobody has to listen to that.
12:31:17 That's all.
12:31:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
12:31:19 Anyone else in the audience care to speak who has not
12:31:23 Okay, petitioner, you have rebuttal.
12:31:25 Mrs. Montelione?
12:31:27 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I know that Mr. Ford has state that he
12:31:31 had attempted to retrieve the disclosure document.
12:31:36 Do you have the disclosure document, Ms. Olson, and has the
12:31:41 realtor from Keller Williams, have you spoken to her?
12:31:43 >> No, ma'am.
12:31:44 Keller Williams is not the realtor.
12:31:47 It was Coldwell Banker.
12:31:49 >> Coldwell Banker was the realtor?
12:31:53 >> Yes.
12:31:53 >> And I know when you purchase properties you hang on to
12:31:56 every document.
12:31:57 Do you not have any of the documents?
12:32:00 >> I have the closing packet and there was no disclosure
12:32:03 >> Isn't it required by law when you transact residential
12:32:07 real estate?
12:32:08 >> I don't do real estate so I'm not sure.
12:32:12 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I believe it's a requirement by law that
12:32:14 there is a disclosure document.
12:32:15 >> In speaking with my client, he does not even know who the
12:32:20 woman is that he is referencing, that this was not his agent
12:32:26 and Keller Williams was not involved in the transaction.
12:32:29 It's Coldwell Banker.
12:32:36 Thank you.
12:32:36 >> What I think is kind of pertinent to be really quick
12:32:39 about this, is that even if all of these things that they
12:32:43 are saying occurred, which we are not saying he did at all,
12:32:47 they are asking for punishment in the form of removing this
12:32:52 He said this to me, they said remove the room.
12:32:56 And, you know, if they really had these problems with this
12:32:59 individual here, there's other recourse that they have.
12:33:03 I mean, you know, how about following through with the
12:33:06 injunction that you filed rather than dismissing it
12:33:11 voluntarily the morning of the hearing?
12:33:12 If you really are so sure that you had these issues with
12:33:15 this gentleman, by the allegations -- stand by the
12:33:19 allegations that you make that he threatened to kill you,
12:33:22 that he's going to kill your dog, that he's going to hurt
12:33:24 the children.
12:33:30 His attorney came up to me and said we are dropping it.
12:33:35 Because it because they cannot prove their allegations.
12:33:37 Not one time has this man been arrested.
12:33:41 The reason why there was no report in conjunction with the
12:33:43 number on the card because I investigated that as well.
12:33:47 They are just call-outs.
12:33:48 Anybody can call the police. And when the police come out,
12:33:51 if there's nothing to make a report about, they do have a
12:33:54 number for it, but they don't do a report and they keep that
12:33:57 number to log that they came out, is what they do.
12:34:02 Because I wanted to see what happened, too.
12:34:03 I wanted to see the call and what happened.
12:34:06 It's a call-out number is what it is.
12:34:08 So if all these allegations are in fact true, then you think
12:34:13 they would have received something, this man would have been
12:34:17 But he's not opening his door to the police, the police have
12:34:20 ways to deal with that, too.
12:34:21 If he's hostile to the police, the police have ways to deal
12:34:24 with that, too.
12:34:25 He's never been arrested for anything or any allegations and
12:34:30 didn't pursue this injunction either.
12:34:32 So again I think their allegations are very suspect.
12:34:35 Think there's other motives in play.
12:34:37 And basically, if there really are some issues, that can be
12:34:42 dealt with separately.
12:34:43 It doesn't mean that the entire room has to come down.
12:34:46 And I don't know if there are or not but those are issues
12:34:52 that can be dealt with separately.
12:34:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any comments by council members?
12:34:57 This is it now.
12:34:58 Mrs. Capin?
12:35:03 Mr. Suarez, she yields to you.
12:35:05 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, Mrs. Capin.
12:35:07 There's a lot going on here but none that has been presented
12:35:10 to us on the than the beginning of Mrs. Olson's presentation
12:35:13 dealt specifically with the structure.
12:35:17 There's a bad relationship.
12:35:18 A bad neighborhood relationship here.
12:35:21 And we have seen in the past that people try to use
12:35:25 disagreements among neighbors and try to use disagreements
12:35:27 with neighbors and try to bludgeon people with the law.
12:35:30 There's no doubt that the structure is illegal.
12:35:35 I don't think anyone denies that.
12:35:38 I know that from my point, I'm very saddened to see that
12:35:42 people who are neighbors can't get along.
12:35:45 There is something going on.
12:35:46 And I don't think that anyone can say that, you know,
12:35:50 whatever the issue is -- and I think that there is some
12:35:54 issue going on, and it has to do with the individuals
12:35:57 involved and not the building itself.
12:36:00 The individuals that live in these two places -- and I am
12:36:03 just going to make a comment that has nothing to do with the
12:36:06 VRB or what our responsibility is here.
12:36:11 People have to start getting a along a little better, okay,
12:36:14 or else you are going to keep having problems.
12:36:16 Getting rid of that building, is that going to make him a
12:36:19 better neighbor?
12:36:20 I guarantee you, I doubt it.
12:36:22 If he's a bad guy now, he's going to be worse if he's got to
12:36:25 tear that down.
12:36:29 I think that whoever is doing, making threats against
12:36:33 someone's life, at some point, you will be arrested, or you
12:36:36 will be in trouble.
12:36:39 And I think that the suggestion that people are yelling at
12:36:43 each other, and doing things they shouldn't, I have been a
12:36:46 neighbor for many years.
12:36:48 I have had homes in three different part of the City of
12:36:53 For the most part I have had good neighbors.
12:36:55 Sometimes I have had not so good neighbors.
12:36:56 But not that we have gotten to the point where we have to
12:37:00 bring injunctions or bring VRB proceedings against someone
12:37:04 for a facility and a structure that was there prior to the
12:37:08 person moving in.
12:37:10 In this case, I think that people mate want to look at
12:37:14 getting some kind of arbitrator to talk to each other.
12:37:22 Ms. Olson, you might want to arrange that in terms of
12:37:24 something that has something other than to do than to do
12:37:27 with this particular case.
12:37:30 In my mind, this case is really about the personalities
12:37:33 involved, about the people involved, has nothing to do with
12:37:35 this particular building.
12:37:36 Having said all of that -- and I apologize for belaboring
12:37:40 the point.
12:37:42 If, without any kind of proof to show that he knew that this
12:37:45 facility, or excuse me, that this building was there prior,
12:37:49 illegally, I think that it would be difficult for us to come
12:37:53 back and now have him tear it down.
12:37:55 We had a case earlier like this this year where the person
12:37:58 had actually built the building themselves, and we did order
12:38:04 and ask for them to have it removed.
12:38:06 That in my you mind is a different situation.
12:38:08 There are going to be cases like this I'm sure in the
12:38:11 But in my mind I don't think that we should vote to remove
12:38:14 this particular building.
12:38:17 I think it would be a financial hardship.
12:38:19 Again I will reiterate, whatever is going on in that
12:38:22 neighborhood, you guys have got to sit down and talk about
12:38:24 it, because it doesn't look like anybody is leaving.
12:38:29 So whatever the problem is, solve it yourselves.
12:38:37 My motion would be to deny the VRB's decision, or I guess to
12:38:45 Excuse me.
12:38:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Suarez.
12:38:49 I have a second by Mr. Reddick.
12:38:50 We are going to go to Mr. Cohen and then Mrs. What Capin.
12:38:55 >>HARRY COHEN: I completely agree with Councilman Suarez.
12:39:01 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I also agree with Councilman Suarez.
12:39:03 But I want to add, this structure has been there nine years.
12:39:09 We didn't hear from the neighborhood association or the
12:39:18 neighborhood, and how is it damaging to the neighborhood
12:39:20 when there are other structures that also have attachments
12:39:24 to it?
12:39:25 And when we talk about equitable, we enforce this on the
12:39:36 This is not the only violation in the neighborhood.
12:39:39 I totally agree, this is a neighborhood fight.
12:39:45 And we all have lived in different neighborhoods, gad
12:39:51 neighbors, others that weren't so good.
12:39:53 You cannot pick up your house and move.
12:39:56 You need to really try to get along.
12:39:58 I agree with Mr. Suarez.
12:39:59 Thank you.
12:40:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any further comments by council members?
12:40:03 Mr. Suarez again?
12:40:05 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I was just going to, according to our
12:40:07 counsel -- let me state, Mr. Shelby, A, subsection 2, that
12:40:19 we deny this VRB's --
12:40:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Overturn.
12:40:29 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Overturn the VRB decision based section
12:40:31 17.5-74 A sub 2 that the hardship or practical difficulty
12:40:37 would result in a hardship for the petitioner.
12:40:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, I believe so.
12:40:47 And also based on the evidence to perhaps consider number 5.
12:40:52 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And also the same section, sub 5 allowing
12:40:56 the variance.
12:40:57 It will result in a substantial injustice being done, public
12:41:03 benefits to be secured by the chapter, and the individual
12:41:05 hardships or practical difficulties that would be suffered
12:41:08 due to granting that decision.
12:41:11 >> Second.
12:41:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion on the floor as stated by
12:41:17 Mr. Suarez.
12:41:18 I have a second by Mr. Reddick.
12:41:19 Any further discussion by council members on that motion?
12:41:24 Ready for a vote?
12:41:25 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
12:41:27 Opposed nay.
12:41:28 Motion passes unanimously.
12:41:30 Thank you very much for attending.
12:41:31 We go to item 58.
12:41:34 This is the one that I alluded to earlier when I was
12:41:39 incorrectly stating.
12:41:41 This is the one that all the evidence has been taken in.
12:41:43 I believe there's one or two and maybe more council members
12:41:46 absent at that time.
12:41:46 And I'm sure they have done their due diligence and we are
12:41:50 here just for the vote on that.
12:41:53 But we will let some part of the record be put in.
12:41:57 Yes, sir.
12:41:59 >>MORRIS MASSEY: On behalf of petitioner.
12:42:00 I do want to raise one procedural issue.
12:42:03 A couple of council members, I believe, received e-mails
12:42:05 after the public hearing was closed by some of the opponents
12:42:09 to our review petition.
12:42:11 I do want to enter that into the record just so that
12:42:14 objection is reserved for our record here.
12:42:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We receive and file the document.
12:42:29 I think I said that before.
12:42:30 Need a motion to receive and file these documents.
12:42:33 >>MIKE SUAREZ: So moved.
12:42:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mr. Suarez, seconded by Mrs.
12:42:40 Motion passes unanimously.
12:42:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I know that you had stated
12:42:43 that the evidence had been concluded and preparing to close
12:42:46 this public hearing.
12:42:47 Although Mr. Massey having raised these objections and
12:42:52 having entered this into the record, I do believe to
12:42:56 preserve his due process rights he does have the opportunity
12:42:59 to rebut them if he chooses.
12:43:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, he does.
12:43:03 >>MORRIS MASSEY: You will not take a lot of council's time
12:43:05 but I would like the opportunity to rebut what's in the two
12:43:08 First is an e-mail from Mr. Johnson stating that these
12:43:13 electric fences are outdated security measures, and then we
12:43:18 have another e-mail from Mrs. Long who states that we do not
12:43:21 present evidence on the record regarding the security issues
12:43:25 and the criminal issues in that neighborhood, and with that
12:43:28 specific location that warrants this variance.
12:43:30 I would like briefly a couple things.
12:43:34 First, until it was submitted to you all when we had the May
12:43:38 hearing, there are letters from all the joining property
12:43:41 owners in support of the electric fence.
12:43:42 The electric fence has been at that location since 2001.
12:43:46 And we showed you evidence that there were criminal issues
12:43:49 before the fence was put up.
12:43:52 After it was put up we haven't had issues at that location.
12:43:55 I would also like to have Mr. Rollerson who is a retired TPD
12:44:00 officer, actually the officer in charge of that area over 12
12:44:05 year, if he could briefly speak to you all about specific
12:44:07 issues in this neighborhood and for this location.
12:44:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say this.
12:44:10 Wasn't that already part of the record?
12:44:11 >>MORRIS MASSEY: It was but --
12:44:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And we are going to hear the same record.
12:44:15 >> I just wanted to rebut what they were saying.
12:44:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say, I'm not an attorney, not a
12:44:22 judge, but if it's only on these two, I will admit it but I
12:44:26 am not going to open a can of worms again.
12:44:28 Only on these two specific e-mails.
12:44:31 Because that was not part of the original record.
12:44:33 Do you agree to that, sir?
12:44:35 >>MORRIS MASSEY: I agree to that.
12:44:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right, sir.
12:44:42 >> He's going to speak to Mrs. Long's e-mail basically
12:44:49 saying what we presented to you all was not evidence that
12:44:51 this was a high crime neighborhood.
12:44:53 That's it.
12:44:53 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mr. Massey, let's be a little honest here,
12:44:58 Does this really go to the heart of the case?
12:45:00 I mean, an e-mail from a constituent that frankly is making
12:45:04 comment about one of our other council members.
12:45:07 I think you may be overstating the case a bit.
12:45:09 And again, I am not like Mr. Miranda -- I am making a
12:45:17 comment that this is an opinion of someone.
12:45:20 You would think that at this time that this is a good idea
12:45:24 to have someone refute someone's opinion?
12:45:27 And that's all I'm saying.
12:45:28 And that's all I am going to say.
12:45:30 Thank you, chair.
12:45:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's enough on.
12:45:31 This I am not going to interject anybody.
12:45:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just for the purposes of the record and
12:45:35 not to fault Mr. Massey for what he's attempting to do.
12:45:38 He's representing his client.
12:45:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand.
12:45:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And it is my suggestion for council to
12:45:45 remember the importance of making sure that ex parte
12:45:48 communications do go into the record, because if they fail
12:45:52 to go into the record and Mr. Massey discovers it
12:45:55 afterwards, it is per se prejudicial and will overturn your
12:45:59 decision in court.
12:46:00 That is the importance of putting things in the box.
12:46:04 So he has the opportunity.
12:46:05 And I respect what council's position is.
12:46:08 But it is my position that in order to protect your
12:46:11 decision, whatever it is, Mr. Massey be granted that
12:46:13 opportunity, and it should be no reflection on him as an
12:46:17 attorney representing his client.
12:46:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: My court days in Ybor City.
12:46:25 In other words, I had an attorney representing me, not me
12:46:29 representing them.
12:46:29 I say only on these two e-mails.
12:46:34 >>MORRIS MASSEY: All I would like is Mr. Rollerson since he
12:46:36 is a former Tampa Police Department officer for 27 years to
12:46:39 reaffirm on the record that this is a high crime area, and
12:46:43 there are specific security issues.
12:46:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: He's going to speak only on these two
12:46:47 The arrests we already have on the record.
12:46:48 He already spoke on them.
12:46:51 >>MORRIS MASSEY: Then we probably don't need to go forward
12:46:52 at this juncture.
12:46:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm just trying to narrow the facts to
12:46:56 what we said we were going to do. I'm just trying to be
12:46:59 fair to all party.
12:47:00 Anything you want to add to this, Mr. Rollerson, on these
12:47:03 two e-mails?
12:47:06 >> Excuse me, sir.
12:47:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have learned a lot today.
12:47:17 >>> The only thing that I would like to add --
12:47:30 >> State your name for the record.
12:47:31 >>> Joseph Rollerson, a private investigator and retired
12:47:36 Tampa police sergeant, 27 years.
12:47:39 I supervised several squads in that area over the years,
12:47:44 plus narcotics squad.
12:47:46 The only thing I would like to indicate is that this
12:47:49 business auto repair over the years has implemented numerous
12:47:56 types of security measures to attempt to secure that
12:48:00 location, and they all were not beneficial.
12:48:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, I said it earlier.
12:48:06 I want you to stick to these two e-mails.
12:48:09 >>> Well, the area itself is a high crime area.
12:48:15 It has some unique situations that other areas --
12:48:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You state that the last tame you spoke
12:48:20 here, sir.
12:48:21 In other words, I'm trying to cut to the chase.
12:48:22 I'm trying to be fair.
12:48:24 And it's making it very difficult for me to be fair.
12:48:26 >>> Okay.
12:48:28 Thank you, sir.
12:48:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other concerns by council members?
12:48:33 Mrs. Montelione.
12:48:34 >>LISA MONTELIONE: This is in the area that I toured
12:48:39 And, you know, I'm working very hard to try to improve the
12:48:47 quality of life in the area, and code enforcement, albeit
12:48:52 very strained by our current resources, is doing their best,
12:49:00 and TPD, and looking at the crime statistics in the last
12:49:05 hearing we had that are included in the report and the book
12:49:09 that was provided by Mr. Massey, and, you know, I respect
12:49:14 your opinion, Mr. Rollerson as a retired TPD officer,
12:49:20 sergeant, but your own reports just don't prove out the
12:49:27 level of crimes that are being talked about.
12:49:37 And as one of the two e-mails represent from Ms. Johnson is
12:49:45 that there was a reason why we changed the code way back
12:49:48 when to take barbed wire out of our neighborhoods.
12:49:52 It would be really hard to improve the area with, you know,
12:49:58 a business that has barbed wire around it.
12:50:02 You know, other than Busch Gardens to keep the animals in or
12:50:06 out depending on how you look at it, you can't improve a
12:50:12 street and you can't improve the feel of a neighborhood if
12:50:14 you have businesses with barbed wire around them.
12:50:18 And, you know, it just runs against everything that I'm
12:50:26 working hard to try to do in that area.
12:50:31 In the neighborhoods.
12:50:32 So, you know, I can't -- I won't, you know, support the idea
12:50:40 of maintaining barbed wire at this property.
12:50:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have Mrs. Capin and Mrs. Mulhern in
12:50:48 that order.
12:50:51 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
12:50:53 Many of you know my husband and I were jewelers for 25
12:51:01 My building looked like Swiss cheese.
12:51:04 People trying to break in constantly.
12:51:05 They knew it was a jewelry store and we had those issues.
12:51:08 We had security.
12:51:09 They never got in.
12:51:13 But I understand improving the neighborhood also would
12:51:19 include that businesses continue and prosper there.
12:51:27 I'm looking at this.
12:51:29 I read this report.
12:51:34 Also the transcript of the meeting.
12:51:38 The analysis, businesses located here were in excess of 7200
12:51:46 part one crimes were reported no one square mile area in a
12:51:49 ten-year period.
12:51:51 The grid in which the business is located consistently
12:51:55 experiences crime rates exceeding five times those reported
12:51:59 in other grids within the city.
12:52:01 That's why homes put burglar bars on their houses when they
12:52:06 move into neighborhoods that have high crimes.
12:52:08 They are protecting themselves.
12:52:10 Their property.
12:52:15 Based upon physical assessment and personal interviews, and
12:52:19 criminal malice, the electric fences was necessary to
12:52:26 protect the property, ensure financial viability of the
12:52:29 business located.
12:52:32 And as far as insurance claims, which was stated by several
12:52:37 of the owners when they send in letters, that they too had
12:52:42 incidents but they did not report because of insurance.
12:52:48 That is a correct statement.
12:52:49 I have been there.
12:52:51 I have been there.
12:52:56 I may not want to put that claim in because of insurance.
12:52:59 Absolutely that does happen.
12:53:04 And from what I could see, I believe the petitioner made his
12:53:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
12:53:11 Anything else?
12:53:14 Mrs. Mulhern?
12:53:15 >>MARY MULHERN: I just have a question.
12:53:17 I don't know, Mr. Massey, if you can answer this.
12:53:22 We continued this.
12:53:22 I remember the beginning of this hearing.
12:53:26 Was it continued because we didn't have a full council?
12:53:29 >>MORRIS MASSEY: Correct.
12:53:29 There were two members missing.
12:53:31 >>MARY MULHERN: Thanks.
12:53:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen?
12:53:35 >>HARRY COHEN: Yes.
12:53:37 Obviously, from the last hearing, I agree with Mrs. Capin.
12:53:41 Two things I wanted to just add.
12:53:42 One is that these petitioners did have security dogs at one
12:53:47 Those dogs were killed.
12:53:48 The second thing I wanted to say was that my recollection of
12:53:52 the site plan that was discussed is that the electric fence
12:53:57 was not actually on the exterior of the property.
12:54:00 It was within the fence, and there is an outer fence on the
12:54:07 out said separate.
12:54:08 So this is the second barrier, not the first.
12:54:14 >> Correct.
12:54:15 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you.
12:54:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other council members at this time?
12:54:20 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Chairman, since I was one of the
12:54:23 councilmen not present, does someone have a picture of this
12:54:30 >> Sure.
12:54:47 >>FRANK REDDICK: The other way around.
12:55:03 >>MORRIS MASSEY: Upside down?
12:55:04 Sorry about that.
12:55:09 >>MORRIS MASSEY: There is a fence on the exterior.
12:55:10 The code requires there be an exterior fence before you get
12:55:13 to the electric fence.
12:55:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other questions, Mr. Reddick?
12:55:16 Any other comments by council?
12:55:17 Need a motion to close.
12:55:19 I have a motion to close by Mrs. Montelione, seconded by Mr.
12:55:24 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
12:55:26 Opposed nay.
12:55:27 The motion -- unanimous.
12:55:32 The hearing is closed.
12:55:33 What's the pleasure of council?
12:55:35 Up hold or overturn?
12:55:39 Mr. Cohen?
12:55:40 >>HARRY COHEN: I would make a motion to overturn the
12:55:44 decision of the Variance Review Board, which my
12:55:48 understanding, that would allow the electric fence.
12:55:56 They met the burden under 27-133 section C-2, variances.
12:56:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have a motion by Mr. Cohen.
12:56:06 I have a second by Mrs. Capin.
12:56:07 Any further discussion by council members?
12:56:10 All in favor of the motion please signify by saying aye.
12:56:14 Opposed nay.
12:56:16 Motion fails 4-3, if I remember the voice that I heard.
12:56:21 I'm pretty good but we will let the clerk.
12:56:24 >>MIKE SUAREZ: No.
12:56:28 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
12:56:29 >>FRANK REDDICK: No.
12:56:32 >>MARY MULHERN: No.
12:56:35 >>HARRY COHEN: Yes.
12:56:36 >>LISA MONTELIONE:
12:56:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
12:56:39 >> The motion failed with Suarez, Reddick, Mulhern, and
12:56:47 Montelione voting no.
12:56:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We need a motion to uphold the variance
12:56:51 review board.
12:56:52 I think that's in order.
12:56:54 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Move to uphold the decision.
12:56:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: A motion by Mrs. Montelione.
12:57:01 Seconded by Mulhern.
12:57:02 All in favor of the motion please signify by saying aye.
12:57:06 Opposed nay.
12:57:08 The motion passes 6 to 1.
12:57:10 >> I said no.
12:57:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 5 to 2.
12:57:16 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to cite the reasons for our
12:57:23 denying -- or not overturning, upholding the decision of the
12:57:30 variance review board.
12:57:31 I would say that in our standard of review, the alleged
12:57:34 hardship, the practical difficulties are not unique and
12:57:38 singular with respect to property or with respect to the
12:57:42 structure or building therein, and are not those suffered
12:57:45 and common with other pro property structures or buildings
12:57:49 similarly located.
12:57:50 Basically, this is the question.
12:57:53 We put those codes, regulations in place because we wanted
12:57:57 to get rid of electric fences and barbed wire fences, by
12:58:03 allowing this one property in this neighborhood to do that,
12:58:07 you know, we would be setting a precedent in saying that
12:58:11 they had a unique hardship.
12:58:15 I don't think that was met.
12:58:16 And I think it would be a bad precedent for the
12:58:19 So it wouldn't be for the public benefit to do that.
12:58:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me take a new vote on that because
12:58:26 that wasn't part of the record.
12:58:27 I want the record to be completely clear on that.
12:58:29 The motion was I think by Mrs. Montelione, seconded by Mrs.
12:58:33 Mulhern, is that correct, the statement that Mrs. Mulhern
12:58:36 just read into the record.
12:58:37 Mrs. Capin.
12:58:40 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
12:58:40 I voted not to uphold the variance review board's finding.
12:58:48 But when I get to the security fencing, section 27-133,
12:58:54 fence and wall regulations, electric fences or walls may be
12:58:58 permitted as accessory to agriculture use and may be used
12:59:03 for security purposes in industrial districts providing the
12:59:09 following standards are met.
12:59:10 So there are exceptions.
12:59:18 Anyway --
12:59:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am going take a new vote even though we
12:59:21 have taken a vote already.
12:59:23 But I want to make sure that everything that was said is on
12:59:25 the record.
12:59:26 I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione, seconded by Suarez?
12:59:33 >>MIKE SUAREZ: No, Mulhern.
12:59:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's what I said.
12:59:36 [ Laughter ]
12:59:38 I don't blame her.
12:59:40 All in favor of that motion that was stated, please signify
12:59:43 by saying yes, aye.
12:59:46 Opposed, nay.
12:59:47 Motion passes 5-2.
12:59:51 I need a motion to receive and file all documents.
12:59:54 Motion by Mrs. Montelione, second by Mr. Suarez.
12:59:57 All in favor of that motion, please indicate by saying aye.
01:00:01 Opposed nay.
01:00:02 The ayes have it unanimously.
01:00:03 We go to general public comment.
01:00:05 Anyone in the audience scare to speak on any subject not on
01:00:07 the agenda?
01:00:19 (The meeting concluded at 1:00 p.m.)
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