TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, December 6, 2012
This file represents an unedited version of realtime
captioning which should neither be relied upon for complete
accuracy nor used as a verbatim transcript.
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of third
party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.
09:02:35 >> Chairman Miranda: City Council is called to order.
09:02:41 The chair yields to Ms. Yolie Capin.
09:02:47 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
09:02:49 I am happy to introduce sister Maria Goretti Babatunde.
09:02:57 Sister Maria earned a BA in psychology from San Friscan
09:03:03 university in Steuben, Ohio,
09:03:08 The University of St. Thomas, Houston, Texas, an M.A. in
09:03:13 teaching, and recently completed her M.S. in educational
09:03:17 ministership from the University of San Diego, California,
09:03:20 and Nigeria, west Africa, is a member of the angel.
09:03:33 When asked about St. Claver school, she states, children are
09:03:37 the same all over the world.
09:03:38 They respond to love, consistency, compassion, and respect
09:03:43 for the unique gifts and talents.
09:03:46 There's an abundance of these virtues in St. Peter Claver.
09:03:51 Please rise for Sister Maria gives this morning's
09:03:55 Remain standing for the pledge of allegiance.
09:03:57 >> God, who rules the heaven, to whom all praise is given,
09:04:07 Bless those here today, and especially all the city
09:04:12 Bless the work in helping your people in the City of Tampa
09:04:17 and our nation.
09:04:19 Guide them with your Holy Spirit to follow your ways, and
09:04:23 bless them to work in harmony in the tasks they face each
09:04:31 We ask for your help in giving the individual and collective
09:04:36 gifts to our community, to give of themselves in ways that
09:04:39 make a difference to our families, to our city, to our
09:04:47 nation, and to a world grown so small it can be explored and
09:04:50 conquered with the flick of a mouse.
09:04:52 Give them the grace with a sense so we are all --
09:05:03 Grace them with your wisdom and vision.
09:05:09 So-so that for always, in all the blessings we thank you.
09:05:20 In your name we pray.
09:05:22 (Pledge of Allegiance).
09:05:36 >> Thank you, Sister Babatunde.
09:05:52 >> Roll call.
09:05:53 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
09:05:58 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Here.
09:05:58 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
09:06:01 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
09:06:02 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:06:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:06:05 We need a motion to accept.
09:06:09 >> So moved.
09:06:10 >> Second.
09:06:10 >> All in favor of the motion please say aye.
09:06:13 Opposed nay.
09:06:13 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:06:16 I need the agenda and addendum.
09:06:20 The motion to approve a agenda and memorandum.
09:06:24 Item number 70 is one that we have to look at very carefully
09:06:29 like we have all the items in the committee meeting.
09:06:35 Decided that item 70 and the rest of the items that we have
09:06:38 are very much to be discussed in a formal manner, and we
09:06:45 decided to change it from 10:00 to 1:30.
09:06:49 So anyone here that is here for the solid waste review, we
09:06:54 changed that the other day to 1:30 so we can have complete
09:07:00 detailed knowledge of everything.
09:07:01 All of us.
09:07:07 Need a motion to accept the agenda.
09:07:09 >> So moved.
09:07:10 >> Motion by Mr. Suarez, seconded by Mr. Cohen.
09:07:13 All in favor of the motion?
09:07:17 Motion passes unanimously.
09:07:21 Comments from the public on any item on the agenda first.
09:07:27 We have dedicated 30 minutes, three minutes per person, for
09:07:30 any item that's on the agenda first.
09:07:32 Any item on the agenda, come forward.
09:07:34 >> Good morning.
09:07:45 I listed the item under finance on the agenda.
09:07:49 My name is Neil Cosentino.
09:07:54 I have lived in Tampa.
09:07:55 I retired here in '78.
09:07:58 I'm with the think tank Camelot, Florida.
09:08:02 And I have a PowerPoint but I didn't know the procedure.
09:08:04 So for everyone else that's watching, if you have a
09:08:08 PowerPoint, make sure you get it in a couple weeks ahead of
09:08:11 time and be approved.
09:08:12 So it will be off the top of my head what I want to talk
09:08:15 But I --
09:08:16 >> I need the item on finance, sir.
09:08:18 >> Well, it's under -- I don't have --
09:08:20 >> Which item?
09:08:22 We go --
09:08:24 >> It deals with finance.
09:08:25 >> All right.
09:08:26 What item on the agenda?
09:08:27 You are going to get to speak.
09:08:29 What I want everyone here to understand --
09:08:32 >> It deals with finance.
09:08:33 >> Well, I'm not going to debate you.
09:08:37 I need an item on the agenda.
09:08:38 Very simple.
09:08:39 25, 9, 25.
09:08:49 That's all I need, sir.
09:08:50 >> P-2-0-1.
09:08:55 >> You are talking about the $65,000 lawsuit?
09:08:58 >> I'm talking about -- yes.
09:08:59 >> Well, let's talk about it then.
09:09:01 >> Okay.
09:09:02 Well, we are talking about how our money is spent.
09:09:08 We are talking about how it's monitored.
09:09:12 We are talking about transparency.
09:09:16 We are talking about realtime information.
09:09:19 We are talking about accountability.
09:09:21 We are talking about a system called RITTA, realtime
09:09:26 information -- yes?
09:09:30 If I may, please.
09:09:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not trying to be argumentative but I
09:09:35 have a meeting to run and I need you said 19.
09:09:39 19 is a lawsuit of $65,000, and that's what you want to
09:09:42 speak on, I guess.
09:09:43 >> Well, I'm speaking about how our money is spent.
09:09:46 You know, I'm not --
09:09:48 >> Well, you can speak but I am going to ask you to take
09:09:52 your three minutes so when these individuals want to speak
09:09:55 to a certain item on the agenda then you are welcome back.
09:09:58 That's all I'm asking.
09:09:58 >> Thank you.
09:10:01 >> All right, sir, that's all I want.
09:10:03 Thank you very much.
09:10:03 Next, please.
09:10:10 >>> Reverend Dr. Jon Keiser, Church of our Savior,
09:10:18 Hillsborough Avenue, and want to speak to item number 76 on
09:10:21 the Hope ordinance.
09:10:23 I'm here first of all to thank your legal staff for the
09:10:26 great job that they have done in preparing this ordinance.
09:10:31 I have in this folder about 20 e-mails from different
09:10:36 One is from Yale, one university of Pennsylvania, one the
09:10:40 University of Tampa, directed to a 33-year-old man who lives
09:10:44 in Pennsylvania.
09:10:46 He's a farmer, works as a farm hand, but also goes to
09:10:50 school, takes care of the family with two children.
09:10:52 He used to live in Tampa, in New Tampa.
09:10:55 He had his own business.
09:10:58 Of course, he went bankrupt, and then moved to Pennsylvania.
09:11:12 These items directed to him, he's had two years of college,
09:11:18 Yale university, UT, recruiting him.
09:11:20 The problem is, even though he's in the Honor Society, Phi
09:11:27 Beta Kappa, couldn't get a job because he's a convicted
09:11:31 After he lost his business he went out on the streets, put
09:11:34 out three applications a day, and as soon as he got to that
09:11:38 first page, that first question, have you ever been
09:11:41 convicted, and he answered yes, he never heard from anybody.
09:11:45 I praise you for taking, and what this ordinance does is it
09:11:50 takes that question of the front page and put it back to
09:11:53 where someone who is -- to where the City of Tampa, whoever
09:11:59 is hiring, can get a knowledge of the human being.
09:12:02 And that's why this is so important.
09:12:04 Even if he were to do that, however, according to this
09:12:09 ordinance, still the credit check would probably disqualify
09:12:16 And that's not included in this ordinance.
09:12:18 And I would ask that you consider it, if you pass this
09:12:22 ordinance, to please also include that credit check on the
09:12:24 same page.
09:12:25 It needs to be done.
09:12:26 But later on after people have gotten to meet human beings
09:12:30 The whereases, I think, are important.
09:12:32 It speaks to the fact that City Council, the City of Tampa,
09:12:37 is interested in reintroducing ex offenders into our society
09:12:42 as productive members.
09:12:44 This young man would have been helped if he ever chooses to
09:12:51 come back home to Tampa.
09:12:52 By the way, he is my son.
09:12:54 Thank you.
09:12:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:12:56 Next, please.
09:12:56 >> My name is Roberta Kittrell, and I'm one of the pastors
09:13:10 of New Life Church of God and on the committee of Hope.
09:13:15 And I just want to tell you that I looked and I looked
09:13:20 through the pages, and they are missing right now.
09:13:29 But there are thousands of unemployed ex-offenders that
09:13:33 continue to be interspersed, the each of you as they return
09:13:42 home to Tampa upon release from prison.
09:13:45 They come and join the masses of those ex-offenders who have
09:13:48 waited year after year for someone to break the dam that
09:13:57 impedes there ever being employed or even given the
09:14:01 opportunity to obtain employment commensurate with the
09:14:04 education and skills they acquired while serving their time
09:14:08 in prison.
09:14:11 And they are not allowed.
09:14:13 They have families.
09:14:14 People are changed by generation.
09:14:17 And now generations where they are not getting to reach
09:14:23 their potential.
09:14:25 Their families aren't getting the chance to reach their
09:14:29 And you are stepping forth and becoming a change agent.
09:14:35 That's how you stem a tide and stop this generation after
09:14:41 generation of unemployed.
09:14:45 So, you know, I grew up where I would hear about bring your
09:14:54 huddled masses at statin island in New York.
09:15:01 We have huddled masses of unemployed that want to break
09:15:06 And this can be the time, and then things will make Tampa
09:15:13 the city of hope, city of progress, and the city of wise
09:15:20 Thank you.
09:15:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:15:22 Next, please.
09:15:23 >> Tom Atchison, pastor of New Life Church and
09:15:32 representative of Hope.
09:15:35 I'm really excited today to see this ordinance on the
09:15:42 77, I believe it is.
09:15:46 76, okay, I got that straight.
09:15:50 This won't solve all the issues that we have to deal with,
09:15:53 with felons, but I think it sends a great message to the
09:15:57 City of Tampa that at least we care enough to be able to
09:16:00 hear their stories, that there are circumstances, a lot of
09:16:03 times where people have felony records, where if their story
09:16:06 could just be heard, a lot of things can happen, and that's
09:16:10 what I appreciate about this the most, is that it's giving
09:16:12 them a chance to be more than just something on a piece of
09:16:15 paper, instead of saying they have a felony, but they at
09:16:21 least have a chance for employment.
09:16:22 So I would really appreciate if you would pass this
09:16:25 amendment today, and send a message to the people of Tampa,
09:16:29 the felons that have done their time, that there really is
09:16:33 compassion there, and really do care and want to do our best
09:16:36 to help them get a job.
09:16:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:16:39 Next, please.
09:16:40 >> My name is reverend Bernice Powell Jackson, the president
09:16:49 of the Hillsborough progress and quality and serve as pastor
09:16:53 of the first united church of Tampa.
09:16:55 On behalf of the congregations of Hope, I want to thank you
09:17:03 council members who have responded to hope's request for
09:17:05 this ordinance.
09:17:06 While we are pleased to see this draft ordinance before the
09:17:08 council, we would be less than honest if we did not also say
09:17:12 that we and the 5,000 members of our congregation are also
09:17:16 disappointed, because as written it does not apply to
09:17:19 businesses who contract with the city or they have tax
09:17:23 abatements or incentives from the city.
09:17:26 We all know that no jobs are created by business, and only
09:17:30 if these businesses are included will this ordinance have
09:17:33 the impact that it needs to have for the thousands of
09:17:37 ex-offenders in the city and the county.
09:17:38 In addition, the inclusion of businesses with city contracts
09:17:41 or tax incentives or abatements is a matter of fairness and
09:17:46 efficiency in how tax dollars of local residents are being
09:17:50 used for local residents.
09:17:55 The credit provision that was first suggested by council
09:17:57 member Cohen, this job will not address the number of
09:18:01 long-term unemployed persons in Tampa whose credit has been
09:18:05 impacted negatively by unemployment and from being
09:18:11 While we address the hiring provisions of the proposed
09:18:15 ordinance today, we have not given up on the first hiring
09:18:20 provision and would hope for continuing conversation with
09:18:23 the City Council about this ordinance.
09:18:25 We are all excited by the plans that the mayor is proposing
09:18:29 for downtown Tampa.
09:18:34 An ordinance would ensure that people already in Tampa have
09:18:36 access to jobs created by these plans.
09:18:39 This is not a radical new or unproven idea.
09:18:43 Many cities across the nation have passed such ordinances,
09:18:46 and they have been in existence for nearly two dozen years.
09:18:51 Cities such as Atlanta found that such ordinances were
09:18:53 pro-business, pro-worker and pro city, and that they help
09:18:58 employers for workers in their city.
09:19:04 Nor do we find it will be burdensome since the Tampa
09:19:09 Workforce Alliance could and should do the reporting for the
09:19:12 (Bell sounds)
09:19:14 As the city attorney's letter points out the Workforce
09:19:16 Alliance is already funded by the federal government.
09:19:20 We look forward to the day when the council enacts both of
09:19:23 these provisions.
09:19:24 Thank you.
09:19:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
09:19:26 Mr. Reddick.
09:19:27 >>FRANK REDDICK: Rev. Jackson, let me ask you a question.
09:19:34 Do you prefer that we not pass this today to give you time
09:19:37 to discuss this more with the city?
09:19:39 >> I'm sorry, I didn't hear.
09:19:43 >>FRANK REDDICK: Are you suggesting that we do not pass
09:19:45 anything today to give mower time, your organization more
09:19:47 time to discuss this?
09:19:49 >> No, we are not suggesting that.
09:19:51 But we are suggesting that we be in continuing conversation
09:19:55 about the first or hiring part because that is important as
09:20:01 the fair hiring division.
09:20:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Next, please.
09:20:05 >> Brian Becker, reside in Tampa, here to speak about item
09:20:15 number 52, the proposed ordinance pertaining to surveillance
09:20:28 A system that categorically allows for any subgroup, police,
09:20:32 to observe, track, catalogue movements of all individuals,
09:20:37 is to work against the democratic concept of equality
09:20:41 It is to say that the few may surreptitiously and in the
09:20:47 shadows view the private lawful actions of the many.
09:20:51 Surveillance is a type of oppression where the worst depart
09:20:58 their communism and fascism.
09:21:01 This proposed ordinance does nothing to preserve traditional
09:21:06 It does not address the reasonable expectation of privacy in
09:21:09 public spaces.
09:21:10 At most, the ordinance would partially deal with private
09:21:13 property which is already covered by current law.
09:21:17 What defines dwelling?
09:21:19 What about a person's front porch, driveway, front yard,
09:21:22 et cetera, where he or she may be engaged in private talks,
09:21:26 barbecuing, playing, et cetera?
09:21:28 What about business owners and clientele and their privacy
09:21:35 Tracking data recension, length of observation of
09:21:38 individuals, degree of observation, what is being observed,
09:21:42 zooming in, profiling a particular socioeconomic, all
09:21:47 aspects to those doing the watching.
09:21:51 Here are some examples of real world consequences of
09:21:54 surveillance data in the permanent eye of the camera.
09:21:58 It comes from Britain from world preeminent surveillance
09:22:04 It's a study entitled CPTV and the social structuring of
09:22:08 surveillance by Clyde Norris at the University of Holland,
09:22:12 Gary Armstrong of the university of bleating, highlights
09:22:19 that those under surveillance in public spaces, men were
09:22:23 nearly twice as likely to be targeted than their presence in
09:22:27 the population would suggest.
09:22:30 The study indicates that we have calculated that black
09:22:33 people were between one and a half and two and a half times
09:22:37 more likely to be targeted for surveillance than their
09:22:42 presence in the population would suggest.
09:22:43 (Bell sounds)
09:22:46 Then also here is a kind of an example of kind of
09:22:52 behind-the-scenes what's going on, group of 12 black youth
09:22:58 all in their late teens and casually dressed outside a fast
09:23:03 food outlet while doing nothing more than talking eating.
09:23:11 She's encouraged by the manager of the CPTV system to
09:23:16 encourage her to watch ethnic problems.
09:23:18 (Bell sounds).
09:23:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much next, please.
09:23:34 >>> Jeff Sirmons for item 76.
09:23:44 I want to thank the city for taking up this ordinance.
09:23:46 It's a good start.
09:23:47 It's a brave step for grace as opposed to fear when it comes
09:23:54 to hiring people.
09:23:56 And that's what I really value and cherish that the City
09:23:59 Council is considering doing.
09:24:00 But it needs to be stronger.
09:24:04 Right now, the ordinance applies to people who seek jobs
09:24:08 with the City of Tampa.
09:24:11 I don't see any reason why we shouldn't continue to talk and
09:24:17 take a step toward adding the ordinance.
09:24:21 Contractors with the City of Tampa.
09:24:23 There's nothing stopping the City of Tampa from doing that.
09:24:29 You know, money is still green.
09:24:31 I don't think businesses are going to shy away for their
09:24:36 hires as well.
09:24:41 That's step number 1.
09:24:42 We had somebody come up here, very first speaker talk about
09:24:46 credit checks.
09:24:47 I don't see any reason why we shouldn't include that in this
09:24:51 ordinance as well.
09:24:55 These things take the employers away, make it harder for
09:25:04 people to find jobs.
09:25:06 But you don't want to discriminate from people with those
09:25:10 kind of backgrounds.
09:25:18 I have a bit of a head cold.
09:25:24 We can make this ordinance stronger if you talk about it.
09:25:28 We do think that you are taking the right step by doing
09:25:31 We will continue to talk about first source as well, even
09:25:35 though that seems to have fallen by the wayside.
09:25:42 Okay, thank you.
09:25:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:25:44 Next, please.
09:25:45 >> I'm Yvette McMillan from the ACLU.
09:25:52 I have a letter for you all.
09:26:04 I'm here to address item 52 and the ordinance regulating
09:26:08 You all know that the ACLU's position is that the cameras
09:26:11 should go.
09:26:12 They shouldn't even be running as we speak.
09:26:16 They are an encroachment on people's privacy.
09:26:22 And we would ask -- I know that you sort of talked about
09:26:26 this at the October meeting about you as council regulate
09:26:35 the use of the cameras.
09:26:36 We would submit that under section 2.01 of the city charter
09:26:40 that you have the power to enact an ordinance that prohibits
09:26:45 the use of the cameras.
09:26:49 At the last meeting in October, you kind of came to the
09:26:53 conclusion that you don't have the power to tell the mayor
09:26:56 what to do with city property.
09:27:00 Having read the charter, I believe that that is not true,
09:27:04 that if read liberally you do have the power to enact an
09:27:08 ordinance that regulates the use of city property.
09:27:12 It's not solely in the power of the mayor.
09:27:17 Secondly, as far as the proposed ordinance itself, I don't
09:27:22 think that it protects people's privacy.
09:27:25 For example, it starts out by saying that it's unlawful for
09:27:31 a person to -- and I'm skipping some word -- to secretly
09:27:39 If it's only going to limit a person, it doesn't limit an
09:27:43 And if a person is acting in an official capacity for an
09:27:46 entity, then it's the entity that is actually doing the
09:27:50 It doesn't say that an entity could not surveil.
09:27:56 Secondly it says secretly.
09:27:58 I would submit if I were on the other side, if somebody is
09:28:02 complaining about being surveilled in their home, I would
09:28:05 say, well, if you know that the camera is out there, outside
09:28:10 your window and it's videotaping 24 hours a day, it's not
09:28:14 videotaping secretly.
09:28:19 So the ordinance basically says if you are outside and you
09:28:23 want to have privacy in your home, you are going to have to
09:28:26 keep your curtains closed at all times.
09:28:29 So again, we would request that you take steps to ban the
09:28:33 use of the cameras.
09:28:34 Thank you.
09:28:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:28:36 Next, please.
09:28:37 >> Pete Johnson, 510 Harrison street.
09:28:53 I'm speaking on item number 74.
09:28:56 First of all, I want it on the record that I am not a
09:29:01 hard-nosed person that I have been made out to be by the
09:29:08 legal staff.
09:29:10 I do expect code violations to be enforced.
09:29:15 And I think everyone that has a code violation should be
09:29:19 held accountable.
09:29:20 As far as the trailer park I am very thankful to the
09:29:27 administration for going in and moving these people,
09:29:29 hopefully to a better location.
09:29:32 I would like to know what relocation means.
09:29:38 Maybe we'll get an answer.
09:29:40 What I passed out are just a few cases that I looked over
09:29:44 just this week.
09:29:47 The biggest problem I have got is the lack of enforcement.
09:29:51 One officer does one thing, another officer does another
09:29:55 On the exact same type of problem.
09:29:58 But the biggest thing that bothers me is the last page where
09:30:02 we take a condemned piece of property that has been a drug
09:30:09 house, prostitution, solicitation point, and go from
09:30:16 condemnation to just the pure property.
09:30:20 This is a fire hazard house that had burned halfway down.
09:30:25 It was on the condemnation list.
09:30:27 We pushed that for a long, long time.
09:30:32 'N and since the property owner got in touch with everybody,
09:30:38 D.O.T. might buy my property.
09:30:41 So please, let me board it up.
09:30:47 Since '05 you haven't done anything to the property.
09:30:50 But on the possibility that he might make a profit, we then
09:30:57 change our minds and not demo this drug dive?
09:31:02 I'm sorry.
09:31:03 It doesn't make any sense to me.
09:31:05 Thank you.
09:31:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:31:07 Next, please.
09:31:08 >> Good morning.
09:31:11 My name is Robert Pete Edwards.
09:31:13 I would like to address issues to item number 73 and would
09:31:17 like to offer some suggestions to the council.
09:31:21 I do remember, Councilman Miranda, when this all came up
09:31:26 One of the issues was at that time -- and the foundation
09:31:29 promised the people over there that, number one, they will
09:31:32 recruit kids from the neighborhood.
09:31:33 Number two, that they will provide semiannual, some type of
09:31:38 reporting to let the community know how many kids were
09:31:42 participating, the kids that are minorities in that
09:31:45 neighborhood, and that they would upgrade the facility, and
09:31:49 they would also utilize the local media where those people
09:31:56 generally live.
09:31:57 They have not done any of that.
09:31:58 So I am asking the council today to schedule and award the
09:32:03 contract with the foundation.
09:32:04 They have not lived up to anything.
09:32:05 Would you think after the last few minutes in front of the
09:32:08 council that they would have went to the Florida sentinel or
09:32:12 some media outlet that those people are accustomed to over
09:32:16 there and advise them what they are trying to do to improve
09:32:18 the situation and the good relationships.
09:32:21 They have not done that.
09:32:22 It's obvious they don't have a program in place.
09:32:26 So I am asking the council to hold a hearing to cancel that
09:32:30 contract, but I'm also asking the council to have a hearing
09:32:34 among all the players in the West Tampa area regarding
09:32:38 Riverfront Park.
09:32:41 I recently went to a meeting of some people who were working
09:32:44 on the West Tampa project, and they advised me that lo and
09:32:48 behold they were trying to work with the school system to
09:32:51 relocate the ball fields between Blake and put them in
09:32:56 Riverfront Park.
09:32:58 At the same time the mayor and administration, with nobody
09:33:02 in that neighborhood -- and it's easy to understand why they
09:33:05 don't trust this administration -- at the same time is
09:33:07 contemplating putting a restaurant and what have you down
09:33:11 Something is wrong.
09:33:12 Everybody has ideas and not bringing the people in.
09:33:15 And I believe that council should take the lead and go
09:33:18 forward with that.
09:33:19 If you look at the history of Riverfront Park, let me remind
09:33:23 everybody, the only reason why that park was even given an
09:33:28 opportunity to get there was because the good people where
09:33:31 Copeland park was, high income, white neighborhood, kept
09:33:35 complaining about putting a park there, and they got federal
09:33:38 money, and when the federal money came down, the agreement
09:33:41 was that we would do Copeland park and Riverfront Park, and
09:33:46 that's how it all came about.
09:33:48 Otherwise they didn't want to do anything to that community.
09:33:51 So I'm asking you, if you have all these scenarios, why
09:33:54 can't the council take the lead and be straightforward, all
09:33:58 the agencies involved, and say, listen, are we putting a
09:34:01 Are we putting a ball field?
09:34:04 Are we going to do nothing with the property?
09:34:05 It takes leadership and courage.
09:34:07 And right now, you are probably about the only group that
09:34:12 people can trust to get it done.
09:34:13 That's all I'm asking.
09:34:15 Thank you very much.
09:34:16 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Excuse me, sir.
09:34:17 I just want to let you know that council is taking the lead.
09:34:21 January 31, we have a workshop on comprehensive plan for
09:34:26 West Tampa.
09:34:26 And you will hear more about it later on today.
09:34:29 So you are very much invited to participate.
09:34:31 >> I will.
09:34:34 I would ask that you invite the school system so we can
09:34:36 determine one of the other issues is if we relocate the
09:34:39 ballpark what are they going to do with Dunbar elementary
09:34:42 school as far as something to see as to redoing the Main
09:34:47 Street area, so those kids would have to be bussed out to
09:34:51 another elementary school.
09:34:53 It's just a bad mess that the city administration has not
09:34:56 done what they should do to make it work.
09:34:58 And I will be there if I can.
09:35:00 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you, sir.
09:35:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thanks very much.
09:35:02 Next, please.
09:35:02 >> My name is Vince Cassidy with Majesty Title Services.
09:35:17 I'm here also on behalf of the greater Tampa Chamber of
09:35:21 Commerce where I am the co-chair for the policy council.
09:35:26 And I'm here to speak to you this morning on item number 76
09:35:30 which is the Hope ordinance first.
09:35:32 I would like to commend the city on this ex-offender hiring
09:35:36 information presented earlier this fall.
09:35:38 Kimberley Crum, director of human resources, in her October
09:35:42 workshop TV indicated that the City of Tampa, second chance
09:35:48 hiring, appeared to be reasonably good.
09:35:50 And I would also like to recognize the Tampa Bay Workforce
09:35:53 Alliance in their employment program.
09:35:56 In August the Workforce Alliance presented an educational
09:36:01 workshop for members of our chamber.
09:36:05 On a personal note, my company utilizes services of
09:36:08 Workforce Alliance in both recruitment and training.
09:36:11 We are very pleased with what they do for us.
09:36:13 The original request by Hope asked for the city to create
09:36:17 its first registry for ex-offenders.
09:36:21 This is a concern for the business community because it
09:36:23 creates a speed bump in the process for hiring employees
09:36:26 that best matches the city's needs.
09:36:29 If the registry were employed by the city, we would be
09:36:32 concerned that it would have a negative impact on companies
09:36:35 bidding for city contracts and could also compose additional
09:36:41 insufficient requirements, adding layers of bureaucracy,
09:36:46 slow growth economic growth and recovery.
09:36:49 The greater Tampa Chamber of Commerce encourages the city to
09:36:52 continue using the services of Tampa Bay Workforce Alliance
09:36:58 and not create the registry.
09:37:02 Thanks very much.
09:37:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:37:04 Next, please.
09:37:05 >> Good morning again and thank you very much for this time.
09:37:09 And thank you for all the good work this council is doing
09:37:12 for our city.
09:37:13 I'm representing Camelot Florida, and I'm introducing
09:37:19 something in our think tank, if you want significant change,
09:37:25 you make significant change.
09:37:28 So what I'm proposing to this council is that you make a
09:37:31 significant change in this respect.
09:37:35 If you look at every citizen in Tampa, you could say every
09:37:39 citizen in the United States, they are interested to know
09:37:45 how their money is spent.
09:37:46 I think that's a given.
09:37:47 And so our think tank said, well, if that's true, then how
09:37:54 easy is it for our citizens to see how money is spent?
09:37:59 Well, in the papers today, they had a 2.0 transparency.
09:38:05 This is in the St. Petersburg or the "Tampa Bay Times," and
09:38:09 it's a software program to look at the budget.
09:38:12 That's the good thing.
09:38:13 But what I'm proposing here, or what we are, the think tank,
09:38:17 is transparency 1.2, okay?
09:38:20 And that says that a government or agency or business has a
09:38:28 I was a businessman.
09:38:29 I had a part 135 taxi business in the Bahamas.
09:38:33 And FAA certified air service.
09:38:36 And you look at your journal, you look at your spreadsheets,
09:38:40 you look at how you track the money, income and expenses.
09:38:45 Well, government does the same thing.
09:38:48 And, for example, the supervisor of elections has two people
09:38:52 that post the money they spent and the money they collect.
09:38:56 Well, if that information is posted realtime on their Web
09:38:58 site, then guess what, that is called RITTA.GOV.
09:39:07 That means that the journal, the spreadsheet, the ledger,
09:39:11 whatever they use, whatever they post expenses and income,
09:39:16 is then made available to all of us realtime.
09:39:20 That means every citizen, every government, and all of you
09:39:25 as well, can then look at any Web site which is government,
09:39:28 or gets government money, gets government money, public
09:39:33 money, they have to set aside whatever they spend that money
09:39:36 on so we can all look at it.
09:39:38 It's called RITTA.GOV and I'm hoping Illinois send your
09:39:45 staff and -- hoping and I will send your staff to
09:39:51 information on RITTA.GOV, and it has very interesting
09:39:59 I will leave it up to your imagination.
09:40:01 It's not in the Harvard business review but it will be soon.
09:40:07 And it's GOV because it's not a Web site yet.
09:40:12 Thank you very much.
09:40:13 I'll be back.
09:40:13 >> Thank you very much.
09:40:14 I appreciate it.
09:40:15 And this will be the last speaker coming up now.
09:40:17 >> I'm Ed Tillou, north Tampa, Sulphur Springs.
09:40:28 I don't know if these are on the agenda but I was the last
09:40:34 So what I wanted to call attention to again is there doesn't
09:40:40 seem to be a lot of progress on the streets, 17th going
09:40:42 into 18th, Avenue, that is, still pretty bad.
09:40:48 15th street.
09:40:49 But the thing is, a lot of other streets are joining that,
09:40:53 like Armenia, North Armenia is getting bad, west Main Street
09:40:58 is getting bad, Cleveland is getting bad.
09:41:02 So there's got to be something done about the deteriorating
09:41:07 Hart recently got a $12 million grant for new buses.
09:41:11 But it's seeming like the buses are wearing out too fast,
09:41:14 because they are exposed to these horrible roads.
09:41:20 Okay, another thing is the growing noise.
09:41:23 Now, you can't do much about Fletcher because that's the
09:41:27 sheriff's department, but within Tampa, over in West Tampa,
09:41:31 roughly around the corner of Lois -- but it's not Lois, it's
09:41:41 Hillsborough they are going up and down -- but the other is
09:41:44 Nebraska in the vicinity of Bird.
09:41:47 Although that's less lately.
09:41:49 But this noise just keeps increasing.
09:41:52 And yet we used to be about 50 or 60 of these cars with the
09:41:56 mufflers half disconnected, and now I swear it must be 150
09:42:00 It just keeps going.
09:42:02 And any enforcement on this, the absence, just keeps
09:42:08 There's another kind of vehicle that had a problem.
09:42:16 The problem with these was that they were too quiet, and
09:42:22 blind people were getting hit by them.
09:42:24 So I think that's kind of wonderful.
09:42:29 Had to add some kind of noise thing to keep people from
09:42:33 being hit by them.
09:42:34 But the best thing for this situation which is the increase
09:42:44 in carbon dioxide that's triggering this temperature
09:42:48 Now, I question whether you can get a handle on carbon
09:42:52 But a big step, the main contributor to the carbon
09:42:56 footprint, not that anyone knows what it is, City of Tampa
09:43:00 or Hillsborough County, but the biggest contributor is used
09:43:07 vehicles, because of the tremendous power they have, like
09:43:10 160-horsepower typically, even in the small compact cars,
09:43:15 120, and that turns gasoline into carbon dioxide.
09:43:20 So this has got to be addressed, because it's not the
09:43:27 increase in sea level which New York has experienced.
09:43:29 (Bell sounds).
09:43:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:43:31 I appreciate it very much.
09:43:32 Anyone in the public have a request for public consideration
09:43:37 of any legislative matter at the last council meeting?
09:43:39 I don't see anyone at all.
09:43:42 Thank you very much.
09:43:43 We go to ordinance being presented for first reading.
09:43:46 Need a motion to open that hearing.
09:43:49 I have a motion by Mr. Reddick, second by Mrs. Montelione.
09:43:53 All in favor of the motion?
09:43:55 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:43:56 Yes, ma'am.
09:43:56 >>JULIA MANDELL: The amend chapter 22, it coincides with
09:44:02 the recent amendments to the Westshore overlay which
09:44:05 prohibits advertising on transit shelters which are located
09:44:08 outside of properties.
09:44:12 To make sure that it's also not allowed in the
09:44:15 rights-of-way, with that previously adopted amendment to the
09:44:19 Westshore overlay.
09:44:20 I'm available for any questions.
09:44:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:44:22 Any questions by council members?
09:44:24 The public will get a chance to speak in the second hearing.
09:44:26 This is the first reading of this consideration.
09:44:30 I need a motion to close.
09:44:32 Motion by Mrs. Montelione, second by Mr. Cohen.
09:44:35 All in favor of that motion?
09:44:37 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:44:38 Mrs. Montelione, would you kindly take item number 1,
09:44:41 >>LISA MONTELIONE: First an ordinance for first reading
09:44:47 consideration, an ordinance of city of Tampa, Florida making
09:44:51 revisions to City of Tampa code of ordinances chapter 22
09:44:54 streets and sidewalks, amending section 22-135, transit
09:44:57 shelter advertising, repealing all ordinances or parts of
09:45:00 ordinances in conflict therewith, providing for
09:45:02 severability, providing an effective date.
09:45:03 >> Second.
09:45:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a second by Mr. Reddick.
09:45:07 Any further discussion?
09:45:08 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
09:45:11 Opposed nay.
09:45:12 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:45:13 >>THE CLERK: The second reading of the ordinance will be
09:45:16 held December 20 at 9:30 a.m.
09:45:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We go now to committee reports.
09:45:22 First committee report, chair Mr. Frank Reddick, public
09:45:29 >> Move 2 through 5.
09:45:32 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
09:45:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second by Mr. Cohen on 2 through 5.
09:45:37 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:45:39 Parks, Recreation, Culture Committee, Mary Mulhern.
09:45:41 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Excuse me, Mr. Chair, I would like to
09:45:46 take a separate vote on item number 6 as I have a disclosure
09:45:52 to make.
09:45:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: In a problem.
09:45:55 Mrs. Mulhern, if you will do that.
09:45:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Let's start with item number 6.
09:46:00 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
09:46:03 Mr. Shelby, I would like to put on the record that the
09:46:06 company that I work with currently has construction --
09:46:11 contracts with service builders, not on this particular
09:46:14 because we do not do any work on the City of Tampa contract
09:46:17 but we do work with them in other cities across the bay
09:46:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Okay.
09:46:23 You don't have any ownership relationship to that company
09:46:26 that gets business --
09:46:29 >>LISA MONTELIONE: No, I don't.
09:46:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And you or the company that you work for
09:46:33 does not stand to benefit financially from the awarding of
09:46:37 this contract?
09:46:40 >>LISA MONTELIONE: No, we do not.
09:46:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: In that case it is my opinion that you do
09:46:45 not have a conflict under Florida statute and you are
09:46:48 required to vote on this, unless you for whatever reason
09:46:52 feel that you may be creating an appearance of a conflict.
09:46:56 But in my professional opinion this does not rise to the
09:46:59 level of a conflict that would require you to abstain.
09:47:01 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you very much.
09:47:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Then I will move item 6.
09:47:07 >>LISA MONTELIONE: With the attorney's opinion that there
09:47:13 isn't a conflict and feel comfortable to go ahead and vote.
09:47:17 >>MARY MULHERN: Move 6 through 14.
09:47:19 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
09:47:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: On 6 through 14.
09:47:24 All in favor of that motion?
09:47:28 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:47:32 Let me hold public works for just a moment here.
09:47:35 We go to Finance Committee reports.
09:47:37 Mr. Harry Cohen, chair.
09:47:39 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
09:47:41 I move items 19 through 25.
09:47:43 >>FRANK REDDICK: Second.
09:47:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a second by Mr. Reddick on a close
09:47:49 vote with Ms. Capin.
09:47:50 All in favor of the motion?
09:47:54 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:47:56 Building, Zoning and Preservation Committee chair, Ms. Lisa
09:47:59 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I move items 26 through 48.
09:48:05 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
09:48:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione, a
09:48:11 second by Mr. Cohen.
09:48:12 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
09:48:15 Opposed nay.
09:48:16 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:48:18 Transportation committee chair, Ms. Yvonne Yolie Capin.
09:48:24 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I move items 49 through 51.
09:48:27 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
09:48:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a second by Mr. Cohen.
09:48:31 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
09:48:34 Opposed nay.
09:48:35 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:48:41 Public Works Committee, vice chair Mary Mulhern on 15
09:48:46 through 18.
09:48:48 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 15 through 18.
09:48:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a second by Mr. Cohen.
09:48:53 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
09:48:56 Opposed nay.
09:48:57 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:49:03 We go now to staff reports and unfinished business.
09:49:07 Item number 352.
09:49:18 >>JIM SHIMBERG: City attorney.
09:49:19 And I know that police chief Jane Castor is on her way over
09:49:22 here and she should be over here.
09:49:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Do you want to hold this for a minute?
09:49:26 >>JIM SHIMBERG: I can go ahead and start it and she should
09:49:28 be here any second.
09:49:30 You had directed us to go back and work with Mr. Shelby and
09:49:33 also listen to the different ideas that were discussed by
09:49:37 council and come back with some recommendations related to
09:49:39 the cameras, and what we have is a couple of different
09:49:43 Chief Castor will be able to finish when she gets here to be
09:49:47 able to describe the proposed standard operating procedures
09:49:50 that her office is putting in place to govern the use of the
09:49:54 camera system, and that would include the system for the RNC
09:50:01 as well as the system that we have.
09:50:04 We also put together a proposed ordinance that would expand
09:50:07 existing ordinance on the books relating to window peeping.
09:50:12 I don't really like that term but that's what it's described
09:50:15 as in the code to expand that to include cameras and video
09:50:18 cameras to try to protect people's privacy.
09:50:21 We have that available if council would like to draft that
09:50:26 With respect to the retention of the case, covered in
09:50:34 procedures, but after a period of 30 days, which is required
09:50:37 by statute, those tapes will be basically available to be
09:50:42 taped over, overridden, and no longer than 120 days they
09:50:46 would be disappear from the system.
09:51:02 Of course if they are being used for investigation or been
09:51:05 flagged then they will kept longer.
09:51:08 Council doesn't have authority to regulate the position of
09:51:15 the cameras.
09:51:16 If you would like to -- assistant city attorney Rebecca Kert
09:51:20 is here to discuss that.
09:51:21 Chief Castor should be walking in any second if you would
09:51:24 like to discuss the draft procedure which I believe I gave
09:51:28 each one of you a copy of when we met earlier this week
09:51:34 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I want to ask if you concur or if something
09:51:40 that Ms. Acosta McMillan brought up and that is chapter
09:51:45 2.01, once passed the mayor must comply.
09:51:52 Do you concur?
09:51:53 >> I was actually given a copy of that letter when I walked
09:51:57 in the room this morning.
09:51:58 And we had some dialogue with ACLU about trying to get
09:52:04 But their position is, they described this letter that
09:52:07 council should pass an ordinance basically banning cameras
09:52:10 altogether, and that really wasn't something that you had
09:52:12 directed us to go back and work on.
09:52:14 So that's not something that I'm prepared to opine on right
09:52:22 And that's not our direction to go back and ban the use of
09:52:25 all cameras in the city.
09:52:27 As now, the city had cameras in Ybor for many years.
09:52:30 So that was not something that we -- I understand that's
09:52:34 their position but that is not something that we considered.
09:52:37 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I agree that was not the -- now I am going
09:52:41 ask our attorney.
09:52:46 I would like some this and anything else.
09:52:55 I would like your opinion on that.
09:53:05 Now and in the future.
09:53:06 >> First of all, I agree with Mr. Shimberg's position.
09:53:10 And we did not discuss council's ability or authority to do
09:53:18 If that were council's direction, I believe that you would
09:53:25 have that answer, and I would have the opportunity to work
09:53:27 with Mr. Shimberg to have an agreement on that.
09:53:31 What you are asking -- and it's a very good question.
09:53:33 It's a very broad question as to what your legislative
09:53:37 authority is.
09:53:37 That would be, I suggest, appropriate for a future date,
09:53:40 another time, if you wish to have that discussion.
09:53:43 Because relative to this specific issue, our direction was,
09:53:47 based on what council's consensus was, to take direction, to
09:53:51 bring back something that would be acceptable to both the
09:53:53 administration and the City Council.
09:54:01 The question that you are asking is very good question but
09:54:03 also fact specific.
09:54:06 Tell us what it is you want to do and then for us to find a
09:54:10 way to get there.
09:54:14 >>JIM SHIMBERG: We had some discussion about the way the
09:54:15 agenda was drafted and the motions that were made.
09:54:17 But it specifically says will not undermine the chief's
09:54:23 authority or the mayor.
09:54:24 So we weren't directed to go back and figure a way to
09:54:27 undermine those authorities.
09:54:31 >>YVONNE CAPIN: You are absolutely right.
09:54:31 And what I will do is make a motion and bring that back at
09:54:35 that time, because it is something that piqued my interest
09:54:42 for sure.
09:54:42 Thank you.
09:54:43 >>HARRY COHEN: Mr. Shimberg, I want to follow up on a
09:54:47 couple of the points that the ACLU made in their letter and
09:54:53 also in public comment.
09:54:54 The question of whether or not the window peeping
09:54:59 ordinance -- I guess that's the way we are referring to
09:55:03 it -- covers just people or entities and people.
09:55:08 How exactly does that work?
09:55:10 >> Okay.
09:55:11 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
09:55:15 The window peeping -- and I also was here when council
09:55:18 talked about that -- is contained in chapter 14 of your
09:55:21 Chapter 14 is enforced in the criminal courts, and we cannot
09:55:25 bring a criminal charge against an entity.
09:55:27 That's the reason it was specifically written.
09:55:29 So the individual person within that entity would be the
09:55:32 person that was charged.
09:55:33 >>HARRY COHEN: I think the question that was asked was
09:55:37 whether or not an entity -- whether or not the ordinance
09:55:44 could cover an entity, is that whether a person working
09:55:48 under the auspices of an entity would be able to assert some
09:55:53 sort of protection against the provisions of the ordinance
09:55:57 based on the fact that they were doing it not in a personal
09:56:00 capacity but in an official capacity.
09:56:03 >>REBECCA KERT: I think someone could bring any defense
09:56:08 they wanted in court, but I do believe this is charged
09:56:11 appropriately towards the person.
09:56:13 It's the very thing where somebody can -- directed to do it,
09:56:19 however they are still violating the law.
09:56:21 >>HARRY COHEN: Okay.
09:56:22 Second, the use of the word "secretly" in the ordinance.
09:56:28 I think the question that was asked about that was secret
09:56:36 from the person who is being filmed?
09:56:38 Or is it not a secret because someone else in the police
09:56:41 department is aware of the fact that the activity is taking
09:56:47 >>REBECCA KERT: It's expressly put in here because it was
09:56:51 approved by a court in another state due to the fact that it
09:56:58 narrows the scope.
09:56:59 That is, not getting into behavior if people had to take
09:57:04 steps to secretly do it.
09:57:05 And while I appreciate the legal argument that was brought
09:57:08 forward, I do feel that at least as far as this situation is
09:57:11 concerned, and we have protocols that say we will not be
09:57:15 peering inappropriately into your house where you have an
09:57:19 expectation of privacy, if someone is violating that, they
09:57:22 are doing it secretly.
09:57:23 The cameras are out there and people can see them, but if we
09:57:26 tell them that we are not doing it and then we do it, I
09:57:30 believe that would be secretly.
09:57:31 >> So it's your opinion that secretly would protect a person
09:57:38 from being spied on without their knowledge?
09:57:42 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes.
09:57:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Those are the two questions I had with
09:57:53 regard to the language in this draft ordinance.
09:57:57 But I still don't quite understand the "secretly" part.
09:58:04 I guess I need a little bit better explanation, because --
09:58:12 >>REBECCA KERT: Okay, let me try this.
09:58:14 If you are out and openly, notoriously, conspicuously spying
09:58:19 on someone, you are not secretly doing it.
09:58:21 If you are doing it in a way that that person cannot see you
09:58:25 do it, you are doing it secretly.
09:58:27 That's how the court looked at it previously.
09:58:29 >>MARY MULHERN: I think -- I was uncomfortable -- we talked
09:58:33 about this when you briefed me, and I was uncomfortable.
09:58:37 I still am and I think even though you did find that court
09:58:40 decision, I think because of the prevalence, increasing
09:58:48 number of cameras that are everywhere, and the privacy law
09:58:52 that's out there, will it still be considered in court to be
09:58:57 a secret if you live within the distance of a security
09:59:05 camera, and -- you know, it is not a secret.
09:59:11 You can see the cameras.
09:59:12 They are out there.
09:59:13 Now they are there.
09:59:14 So I think -- I still feel like that word makes it less
09:59:21 likely to protect individuals.
09:59:23 >>REBECCA KERT: I respect that concern, and I can never
09:59:28 guarantee what a court would do.
09:59:30 It would be disingenuous if I told you it's not possible
09:59:35 that a court could do that.
09:59:36 But this is the best language that I found out there that is
09:59:39 both broad in scope and the protections it provides and yet
09:59:43 narrow enough to be upheld by a court.
09:59:46 I guess that's it.
09:59:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, thank you.
09:59:53 I have more to say but I will wait till we hear from
09:59:58 >>JIM SHIMBERG: Chief Castor is here if you want to hear
09:59:59 about the procedures.
10:00:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Chief.
10:00:01 >> Good morning, council.
10:00:03 You have all been briefed by the legal staff.
10:00:06 We have developed a policy to oversee the use of the cameras
10:00:10 that have been installed in the downtown area and the
10:00:13 historical use of the cameras in Ybor City as well.
10:00:19 And if you have any questions on that policy, I can briefly
10:00:22 go over that.
10:00:24 The control of the camera system will be overseen by the
10:00:29 criminal intelligence bureau.
10:00:32 That bureau commander works directly for the office of the
10:00:36 chief of police, reports directly to me.
10:00:39 There will not be any live monitoring of these cameras
10:00:44 except in specific instances.
10:00:47 For example, we monitor the Ybor City cameras every
10:00:49 Thursday, Friday, Saturday night.
10:00:50 If there's a special event, Gasparilla, those types of
10:00:54 things, or if there is a specific crime problem, we have a
10:00:59 pattern of auto burglaries in the downtown area, then we
10:01:02 would monitor those in a live-time capacity.
10:01:12 Any individual that's monitoring the camera system will have
10:01:14 to log on with a unique identifier which in our case would
10:01:19 be our payroll number, and then a password that's only known
10:01:22 to that user.
10:01:24 So we would be able to go back and see exactly who monitored
10:01:28 video at a particular time.
10:01:31 Obviously, we go back historically and look at the video, if
10:01:34 there's a need for evidentiary value, and we have done that
10:01:39 in a number of cases.
10:01:40 As I said before, the last time I came to council, these
10:01:43 cameras are all aimed at the street level, so there's
10:01:46 really -- they are not aimed in anyone's windows.
10:01:49 There's no looking into private areas.
10:01:51 It's all videotaping and viewing public places.
10:01:59 The system itself has an automatic override.
10:02:02 Every 30 days, we made that 120 just to ensure from 30 days
10:02:07 to 120, minimum up, maximum, so that, you know, we could
10:02:12 ensure that we were within the time frame to override any of
10:02:18 the videotape.
10:02:21 The way the system works is that these cameras, some of the
10:02:25 particular cameras are activated by movement.
10:02:30 So that's why we put that in there, because they are set to
10:02:37 roll over every 30 days.
10:02:38 But if there's not movement in a particular area, it may go
10:02:42 a little bit longer.
10:02:44 So that's what we are looking at.
10:02:45 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10:02:50 Chief, how many people do you estimate will be assigned the
10:02:59 task of monitoring and given a user name and password?
10:03:05 >> Chief Castor: I would say on the high end, lens a dozen
10:03:10 people would have access to that.
10:03:13 But right now, as far as the live viewing, we only have one
10:03:16 individual that watches it every Thursday, Friday, Saturday
10:03:21 That obviously would depend on cycles, shift changes, so
10:03:27 that may be alternated between, say, three, four officers.
10:03:32 >> And while I have you, I don't know if you had a chance to
10:03:36 see a report from the law enforcement officer assigned to
10:03:44 the legal company in East Tampa, the report that he sent
10:03:51 I got a copy of his report the other day, and it showed
10:03:56 where he had pictures, and he showed where the number of
10:03:59 people he called with their illegal dumping, and it was
10:04:04 amazing to me, a lot of the people, you know, some of them
10:04:12 were getting paid to haul trash somewhere, and what they
10:04:15 were doing and leaving the site where they were all the
10:04:23 trash and they would go down the alley somewhere and dump it
10:04:26 and they were able to track that?
10:04:28 >> Yes, sir.
10:04:29 And as you know, there's a problem in a number of areas
10:04:31 throughout the City of Tampa, and that's why we have those
10:04:34 environmental investigators, and we work very closely with
10:04:37 solid waste to monitor that.
10:04:40 Now that's a different system obviously, putting those
10:04:45 covert cameras up, that's based on probable cause, where we
10:04:49 know people are doing illegal dumping and we want to stop
10:04:52 that and gain evidence to use in prosecution of individuals
10:04:55 that are illegally dumping.
10:04:57 As I stated, the last time I came to council that we were
10:05:01 buying several more of those cameras and we have done that.
10:05:05 >> That was my question.
10:05:07 I was going to follow up with that.
10:05:09 >> Yes, sir.
10:05:10 That is a problem.
10:05:11 And we are doing all that we can to combat illegal dumping.
10:05:15 >> Thank you.
10:05:16 >> Mr. Suarez?
10:05:17 >> Thank you, chair.
10:05:19 Chief Castor, in terms of the procedures that you are
10:05:23 proposing here, where does probable cause come in relation
10:05:27 to the use of the cameras?
10:05:30 I mean, obviously, we have got a lot of experience in terms
10:05:33 of Ybor cameras.
10:05:34 It's a little bit different because those cameras are
10:05:38 trained in an area in which there are a lot of people,
10:05:40 whereas some of the other cameras that we are talking about
10:05:42 may not have a lot of traffic at any one time, and part of
10:05:47 the reason why you were talk the 30 to 120-day time frame.
10:05:52 How does that work in terms of police work?
10:05:57 >> Well, Ybor City, as you say, those cameras are unique.
10:06:01 The reason that we view those in a live fashion is so that
10:06:07 we can use them for crowd management as well, and to ensure
10:06:11 that there aren't any problems that pop up in the Ybor City
10:06:14 Now, with the downtown cameras, the majority of the time, it
10:06:19 won't be an issue of probable cause unless we are trying to
10:06:25 prevent a problem.
10:06:26 But when we are looking at that for evidentiary value, I
10:06:28 guess the easiest way to explain it would be to give the
10:06:31 example of the woman who was attacked in the parking garage.
10:06:37 When the detectives from the criminal investigation, or
10:06:39 criminal intelligence bureau went back and reviewed those
10:06:42 tapes, they did that to gather evidence for a crime that had
10:06:48 already been committed.
10:06:50 One to identify the perpetrator, and then to gather evidence
10:06:54 for the prosecution.
10:06:54 >> That's part of the reason why I asked the question.
10:06:56 These cameras are typically not used in terms of a probable
10:06:59 cause to then look at the camera and, you know, it doesn't
10:07:06 come under that same type of procedural -- when you are
10:07:10 doing your work, it's usually after the fact.
10:07:14 >> That's correct.
10:07:15 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And in case of crowd control it is before
10:07:17 the fact to make sure those police officers that are on
10:07:20 patrol, whether they are on horse patrol or they are on foot
10:07:24 patrol, that if there is a gathering crowd that may need
10:07:30 more officers on-site, that that's what the cameras are
10:07:35 particularly used for in Ybor.
10:07:37 And I guess it can be used in the same way in the downtown
10:07:42 >> For example, like the Gasparilla festivities when they
10:07:45 occur in the downtown area, or we have something in Curtis
10:07:49 Hixon, you know, we can use that for pedestrian flow and
10:07:51 traffic flow as well.
10:07:54 So you are correct in that.
10:07:55 And we do use that for resource deployment, and that crowd
10:07:59 management, traffic management and those types of
10:08:03 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chief.
10:08:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else?
10:08:11 This is a report from administration regarding the use of
10:08:16 the cameras, both to Chief Castor and city attorney
10:08:23 Shimberg; I assume.
10:08:26 Am I correct on this report?
10:08:29 >> Chief Castor: Yes, sir, that's the draft policy that we
10:08:32 are going to utilize to oversee the use of the cameras.
10:08:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Stated on the agenda.
10:08:41 >>FRANK REDDICK: I would like to move that --
10:08:54 >>YVONNE CAPIN: You didn't see me.
10:08:55 I wanted to ask a question.
10:08:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Go on, Ms. Capin.
10:08:59 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
10:09:00 Chief Castor, you said the peeping, voyeurism, whatever we
10:09:04 want to call it, peeping window -- I still can't get around
10:09:09 >> Window peeping.
10:09:11 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
10:09:12 That is a policy that you had in place already, but with
10:09:21 this ordinance, what I am looking at is this is not a policy
10:09:24 that a later administration can change.
10:09:25 >> All policies can be changed.
10:09:31 >>YVONNE CAPIN: So we are today, with this ordinance, if it
10:09:36 helps -- and maybe attorney Shimberg can come forward
10:09:39 because I was briefed on this but I want to make it clear.
10:09:43 >>JIM SHIMBERG: The proposed ordinance that we presented
10:09:44 first of all is at council's pleasure, if you would like to
10:09:49 move forward with that or not. If that is adopted, it would
10:09:52 require a second reading as well, that could be on the
10:09:57 books, and could obviously be changed.
10:10:05 >>YVONNE CAPIN: It is in the ordinance.
10:10:07 >>JIM SHIMBERG: It would govern much more than the cameras.
10:10:10 It would govern anybody using a video camera --
10:10:15 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I wanted to --
10:10:16 >>JIM SHIMBERG: However, Chief Castor's procedures, I
10:10:18 believe, once those are approved by her, and any oversight
10:10:23 by the mayor, they would go on the Web site and would be in
10:10:30 I guess every so orphan they look at their procedures and
10:10:32 see if there are any procedures required.
10:10:38 >>YVONNE CAPIN: So we are moving beyond a procedure.
10:10:42 I just want to make that clear for --
10:10:45 >>JIM SHIMBERG: And, chairman, it's up to you if you would
10:10:48 like to move forward.
10:10:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me go through this.
10:10:53 Mrs. Montelione, then Mrs. Mulhern.
10:10:56 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Two suggestions.
10:10:57 One is, since everyone seems to have an issue with the word
10:11:03 "peeping," is there anything in the definition of the word
10:11:10 "viewing" so we would change it from window peeping to
10:11:15 window viewing?
10:11:18 It's a minor change, but everyone seems to be having a
10:11:21 problem with this word.
10:11:22 >>REBECCA KERT: That would be up to the discretion of the
10:11:27 I don't think that would change the ordinance.
10:11:30 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I don't want to change the intent.
10:11:33 >>REBECCA KERT: A lot of times words have specific
10:11:36 definitions and a change of a word can completely change --
10:11:41 >>JIM SHIMBERG: That was in your code right now.
10:11:42 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Maybe we need to update the language
10:11:46 from peeping to viewing and make everyone comfortable and
10:11:48 bring us into the 21st century perhaps.
10:11:52 And the other is that there seems to be concern as to
10:11:56 dovetail to what Councilwoman Capin was talking about in the
10:12:05 changes of any procedures that were submitted in a draft
10:12:08 They are going to be on the Web site, as you mentioned.
10:12:12 Could we build in, I don't know, in the ordinance or at the
10:12:23 request of the Tampa Police Department that should any major
10:12:25 change or substantive change to procedures be brought to
10:12:32 council, as an advisory under a staff report?
10:12:38 Is there a way that we could craft something that says if
10:12:43 it's a serious consideration or possible that these
10:12:50 procedures get changed without our knowledge, somebody is
10:12:52 not paying attention, we don't review the Web site every,
10:12:54 you know, three months?
10:13:00 >> Chief Castor: We have a number of checks and pose was
10:13:04 our policy itself and procedures.
10:13:05 One, we are nationally accredited, and there are very, very
10:13:08 strict standards for just about everything and anything you
10:13:11 could think of dealing with law enforcement which would
10:13:14 include the use of any type of public cameras.
10:13:19 In our research for this camera system prior to the RNC,
10:13:25 looking at other cities, we are way behind other cities
10:13:28 throughout the United States.
10:13:30 The majority of them have had these camera systems in place
10:13:33 and working effectively for a number of years, and the
10:13:37 majority of them are increasing the number of cameras that
10:13:40 they have in their particular jurisdiction.
10:13:44 So there are policies out there, model policies, the
10:13:51 international association of chiefs of police have model
10:13:53 policies as well.
10:13:54 Then internally, that's national accreditation, but then
10:13:58 internally as well, I think you all know that we have an
10:14:01 outstanding auditing department.
10:14:03 I meet once a year with Roger Straub.
10:14:09 Then we go over procedures with my department.
10:14:12 And that's one.
10:14:13 Things that we discussed as well, to have that outside group
10:14:16 take a look at not only the policy but the way that the
10:14:19 camera system is being used a year from now and then follow
10:14:25 that up with regular audits from the city as well.
10:14:28 And we are a transparent agency.
10:14:30 The majority of our policy and procedures with the exception
10:14:32 of those that may cover undercover work, and may put our
10:14:38 officers in danger, the majority of our policies are up on
10:14:41 the Web site where ever citizen can take a look at those.
10:14:45 And we go through those policies on a regular basis, as well
10:14:49 as part of our accreditation.
10:14:54 So if there are any changes in this, then the public would
10:14:56 know, City Council would know, and also to further add, I
10:15:03 would hope, comfort to council and to citizens of our
10:15:07 community that the bureau that's overseeing this reports
10:15:09 directly to my office.
10:15:12 So I'm responsible for everything that goes into my
10:15:17 department but directly over the criminal intelligence
10:15:20 bureau that oversees this program.
10:15:21 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I think the concern for us is not
10:15:24 questioning your integrity, but you are when you are no
10:15:35 longer our chief of police, and this ordinance and cameras
10:15:41 will be for the duration of time until such time that maybe
10:15:45 we deem --
10:15:47 >> But I believe that some of the uses you say you are
10:15:49 concerned about really transcend into being illegal
10:15:54 activity, and officers are held to a very, very high
10:15:57 standard, and there won't for this camera system and we will
10:16:04 have policy checks and balances in place to make sure that
10:16:08 that doesn't occur.
10:16:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Chief Castor, I agree with what
10:16:18 Councilwoman Montelione just said about, you know, none of
10:16:22 us will be here forever, and we pass these laws.
10:16:26 It will be a different council, and it will be different
10:16:28 police chief.
10:16:30 And I think that really I just want to tell you that I'm
10:16:37 impressed with the standards you set for these cameras.
10:16:40 I couldn't feel any more comfortable, I don't think, that
10:16:47 the use of these cameras isn't going to be handled
10:16:51 responsibly, and the protection of people's privacy under
10:16:57 your watch will be very strong.
10:16:59 I just want to say that, because this isn't about
10:17:03 criticizing you or the administration or anything, anything
10:17:07 I have to say.
10:17:09 >> I understand.
10:17:10 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to say that.
10:17:12 And I think this is part of the problem with this
10:17:14 And I'm encouraged today to hear some of the questions from
10:17:19 my colleagues, especially Councilwoman Capin, questioning
10:17:25 the bigger policy question of whether we are going to have
10:17:28 these cameras.
10:17:30 And I feel like we haven't -- we are going to continue to
10:17:39 have the cameras, which some people hope that it's not, that
10:17:48 we can still have discussion about that legislative
10:17:53 question, that all of us were frustrated about because we
10:17:56 felt we were just approving a temporary use of these.
10:17:58 So we have still not gotten to -- you mentioned how we are
10:18:03 behind other cities, but actually the only data that I have
10:18:10 heard, or the only case I have heard really has been against
10:18:15 how they have worked in other cities, because I brought it
10:18:18 up, a lot of people from the public brought it up, ACLU
10:18:22 brought it up, the newspapers wrote about it.
10:18:24 I haven't heard the case for having surveillance -- this
10:18:29 many surveillance cameras permanently in the city.
10:18:31 >> Chief Castor: I have a great deal of research on this as
10:18:40 well and I can forward that to the council members.
10:18:43 But the only complaint I can tell you locally, the only
10:18:45 complaint that I have ever heard about the cameras and
10:18:48 historically in Ybor City, is when cameras didn't cover an
10:18:52 area that someone wanted footage from, or something occurred
10:18:58 in a particular camera, had a mechanical issue and didn't
10:19:03 Those are the only complaints that I have ever heard.
10:19:05 And I think everyone is aware that the woman that was
10:19:08 attacked in the garage, we probably would not have caught
10:19:12 that individual had we not had those camera systems.
10:19:16 And in addition to catching him in a matter of a couple of
10:19:19 hours, being able to identify him and catch him, we were
10:19:22 able to develop the evidence for that particular case as
10:19:26 We had him in one particular camera where his T-shirt had
10:19:30 been torn by the victim, and another camera view where he
10:19:33 was disposing of that evidence into a trash can, and then a
10:19:37 third view where we found him over in the park.
10:19:39 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, so this was all outside of the
10:19:42 parking garage?
10:19:45 >> That's correct.
10:19:46 >>MARY MULHERN: So we have that one example, which is
10:19:51 And I think in enclosed spaces the place where the data, all
10:19:57 of the research that I did, they were successful in
10:20:04 preventing and prosecuting the crime.
10:20:08 But that's my whole point, is we need to hear more about it.
10:20:11 So I want to ask council -- I just want to suggest that if
10:20:20 today we passed a new ordinance with regulations on these
10:20:26 cameras, we are endorsing and admitting that these are here
10:20:32 to stay, that we don't have to have this larger policy
10:20:35 discussion, we don't need to hear from the public, we don't
10:20:40 need to hear from the police achieve about making the case
10:20:45 for whether it is right that we sacrifice people's ability
10:20:53 to be left alone, people's ability to walk around the
10:20:57 streets without feeling like they are being watched.
10:21:01 And the other big question that we have to talk about, which
10:21:06 I think, you know, Councilwoman Montelione brought up, the
10:21:10 reality is we are talking about government surveillance.
10:21:14 And although there are other cities -- I know New York and
10:21:18 Chicago and London, really big cities have these huge
10:21:22 systems is of surveillance.
10:21:23 That doesn't mean that every city in the country needs to
10:21:27 follow suit with something that people don't really want,
10:21:31 that really may be an invasion of our privacy.
10:21:39 So I think the problem with approving these tweaks to
10:21:45 existing law, and ordinance about how the camera is used, is
10:21:50 the fact that it's still government surveillance.
10:21:54 We don't know who is going to be in charge.
10:21:56 People are people.
10:21:57 And you are basically saying, I think it's okay for the
10:22:03 government to watch over me whenever they want, wherever
10:22:06 they want, and for this to, you know, what we are doing
10:22:13 today will mean there will be more cameras, we will have no
10:22:17 say over it, there will be no public input on it.
10:22:20 So I'm not comfortable -- obviously I'm not comfortable with
10:22:25 it, but I would like to ask council that we continue this to
10:22:32 a staff report or a workshop later where we can have the
10:22:36 discussion that we have never had, other than hearing from a
10:22:40 few people in the public, hearing from me.
10:22:45 I would like to hear from them, the police department to
10:22:49 present the case for why we should have these cameras, how
10:22:53 they should be used, where they should be used, and then we
10:22:56 can talk about -- and also to follow up on the question that
10:23:00 Councilwoman Capin asked, and Mrs. McMillan of the ACLU
10:23:08 brought up whether this council should be the one that is
10:23:12 passing an ordinance that really either, you know, approve
10:23:18 these or does not approve them, and sets down some -- that
10:23:25 works with legal to set down some standards, if that's the
10:23:28 way we want to go.
10:23:29 But I think we haven't done the really basic important due
10:23:34 diligence of looking at the policy of surveillance in the
10:23:37 City of Tampa.
10:23:40 And if we pass something today, it will -- it's over.
10:23:45 We won't have any say in it.
10:23:47 And we won't have the public discussion.
10:23:49 So I would like to suggest -- I don't know if Councilwoman
10:23:54 Capin was going to make a motion to this effect.
10:23:57 If not, I would make a motion to continue this to a
10:24:03 workshop --
10:24:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say this.
10:24:06 I stopped from Reddick from making a motion because I had
10:24:09 other council members that want to speak so I am going to do
10:24:12 the same thing here with your permission, and you can
10:24:14 continue on your course there.
10:24:16 >>MARY MULHERN: That's it.
10:24:17 I'm just appealing to council that we continue this, because
10:24:20 I do trust our police department.
10:24:22 I think if we don't pass something today, their policy is
10:24:26 already in place.
10:24:27 They are doing a good job.
10:24:28 It's not urgent.
10:24:31 And it's kind of like when we pass the approval for the
10:24:35 cameras for the RNC, we passed it, and then afterwards
10:24:39 realized, you know, what had happened.
10:24:42 So I think we need a broader discussion before we pass any
10:24:46 kind of ordinance relating to these.
10:24:47 So if someone would like to -- I would like that motion if
10:24:53 people agree, or if someone else wants to.
10:24:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have Mr. Cohen, Mr. Reddick, and Mr.
10:24:58 >>HARRY COHEN: I'm mindful that two of my colleagues
10:25:02 already indicated they want to make motions.
10:25:05 I very much respect what the councilwoman Mulhern just said,
10:25:08 and I think she raised a lot of very key issues involved in
10:25:13 something of this nature.
10:25:14 And certainly none of us, I think, were particularly happy
10:25:20 about the way it's unfolded in terms of our original
10:25:24 authorization of the purchase of the cameras.
10:25:28 With that said, I don't know that having the conversation
10:25:32 that Ms. Mulhern is asking for and passing the window
10:25:36 viewing ordinance are necessarily mutually exclusive of one
10:25:40 I gave a lot of thought to whether or not it would be
10:25:43 appropriate to vote against the window viewing ordinance
10:25:47 because of a lot of the concerns that councilwoman Mulhern
10:25:51 raised, and I eventually came down not wanting to do that,
10:25:55 because I think the window viewing ordinance is an
10:25:58 improvement over what we have now, and we ought to go ahead
10:26:00 and pass it.
10:26:01 Likewise, I think that the police department, as always, has
10:26:06 come in a very professional way and given us policies that
10:26:09 represent a well thought-out approach to how this program is
10:26:13 going to be administered.
10:26:19 Where I agree with Councilwoman Mulhern is the discussion
10:26:21 should not end, and that the discussion of the
10:26:24 appropriateness of surveillance and the appropriateness of
10:26:28 various different types of invasions in our privacy and in
10:26:31 our society is one that he would should continue to have.
10:26:37 Whether or not it should be combined with something that
10:26:39 discusses what our powers are, vis-a-vis, the mayor is an
10:26:43 interesting question and one that we might want to explore.
10:26:45 But my view of this entire matter is that once we authorize
10:26:51 the original purchase of the cameras, certain trains left
10:26:54 the station.
10:26:55 And my feeling is that -- my understanding is that this
10:27:01 contract actually did kick in on October 31st, which
10:27:04 means that pursuant to the terms of the contract, the item
10:27:08 is going to come back to us, I would assume sometime next
10:27:12 August or September, when we will be called upon to approve
10:27:17 an agreement and to go forward plan for the contract.
10:27:21 I think that is the time when it is both appropriate for us
10:27:26 and necessary for us to examine the program in its entirety.
10:27:31 And I think at that time we'll have a couple of months'
10:27:34 worth of data to see how these procedures work, to see how
10:27:39 these procedures were followed, and it will -- we'll have
10:27:44 some facts that we can base that discussion on.
10:27:47 The thing that concerns me about having the discussion prior
10:27:49 to then is that even if we come to the point of wanting to
10:27:54 take certain action, I'm not sure that we are not going to
10:27:57 be prohibited by the charter from actually affecting the way
10:28:02 that the mayor decides to administer these laws.
10:28:07 I think if we have the discussion at the same time as the
10:28:11 maintenance contract discussion, we at least have some
10:28:14 action these on the table to be taken that will be affected
10:28:19 by the way that the conversation comes out.
10:28:20 So that's my thinking on what I'm hearing from my colleagues
10:28:25 >>MIKE SUAREZ: In terms of these particular issues,
10:28:38 We have two things before us.
10:28:39 One is the procedural process, the police department and
10:28:45 chief of police presented to us.
10:28:47 I think in my mind, when we were first discussing this at
10:28:51 our last meeting concerning security cameras, it really was
10:28:56 about how open are we going to be about what we are using
10:28:59 and what we are not using.
10:29:01 We have under this particular procedure as far as best
10:29:15 practices that are out there in the rest of the country.
10:29:17 Councilwoman Montelione made a comment that we may trust
10:29:22 Chief Castor but we don't know what's going to happen
10:29:25 That is actually part of what happens during the course of
10:29:29 whether or not I'm here, or any other member is here.
10:29:31 We always have to be vigilant as to what our resources are
10:29:37 and how they are being used.
10:29:39 And it is one of those most important things that we have to
10:29:42 deal with when it comes to things like some of the
10:29:46 discussions that we had prayer to the RNC, which is use of
10:29:50 force, how do we protect our citizens, what does public
10:29:54 safety actually mean, is it preemptive, is it reactive, is
10:29:58 it proactive?
10:30:06 We have proven that, A, people who live in this city are
10:30:11 protected, B, that people who visit the city are protected,
10:30:14 and, C, that both of those groups were not infringing as
10:30:19 much as we could have on their rights.
10:30:23 And again that's a testament to our chief of police, the
10:30:27 people that work for her, and we thank you for that.
10:30:31 The other part of this, the ordinance, we could pass the
10:30:37 ordinance, and I agree with Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:30:40 It is essentially saying we agree that these cameras are in
10:30:45 place, and that they are being used.
10:30:49 That's an argument that is an over arching philosophical
10:30:55 argument whether cameras should be there or not be there.
10:30:58 The ACLU's argument is one that goes from that policy
10:31:04 position, which is we should not have cameras, and I believe
10:31:07 based on what I have read, and I don't agree with that
10:31:12 policy position.
10:31:13 We as policymakers here have to continually decide whether
10:31:17 or not those things that the administration both want or
10:31:20 need are things that we are going to pass, how we are going
10:31:27 to be involved in the administration of those particular
10:31:30 needs and wants, and those resources.
10:31:33 That's our job.
10:31:34 And I think -- and frankly I will have to argue with our
10:31:38 lawyer, Mr. Shimberg, and Mr. Shelby later, I think that if
10:31:42 we wanted to, we could say we are not going to have cameras,
10:31:45 you know, and the mayor would have to come back and make a
10:31:48 decision as to whether or not he's going to override what
10:31:51 our decision is, and then we would have another bite at it
10:31:54 as to whether or not we are going to continue that
10:31:57 particular policy.
10:32:00 As a legislative body we have that right, and we have that
10:32:03 I don't believe that is right that we should not have
10:32:09 cameras at all.
10:32:10 I this I the case of the woman that perpetrated this,
10:32:15 because of the attempted rape in Ybor City, is an example of
10:32:19 I don't think we should leave either perpetrators out there
10:32:27 that are trying to do us harm or from the police.
10:32:29 I think we are a safe enough city based on the recent
10:32:33 statistics -- and I assume we are still where we need to
10:32:35 be -- that people should not be fearful.
10:32:38 But there are still people that live in the city, and some
10:32:41 of our friends of mine, they carry weapons for their own
10:32:45 They have a concealed weapons permit.
10:32:47 They are allowed to do that under state law.
10:32:50 The argument about whether or not they should be carrying
10:32:52 the weapon -- and I had discussions about this all the
10:32:54 time -- what is it that makes you feel unsafe, to carry a
10:33:00 Again, I don't have an argument for or against whether or
10:33:03 not they should carry it.
10:33:05 But it is the law that if you are a law abiding citizen you
10:33:09 can do that.
10:33:10 Again, is this something that rises to the occasion of it is
10:33:16 too much invasion of privacy?
10:33:18 I'm not going to get into that discussion.
10:33:20 That is a discussion that will be ongoing and will never be
10:33:23 solved for the rest of our lives.
10:33:26 And that's something that the Constitution guarantees.
10:33:33 It's a Supreme Court decision is going to make whether or
10:33:36 not we agree with it or not.
10:33:38 I mean, we have changed just in my lifetime the laws in
10:33:42 terms of what Jane Castor when she came in as a rookie
10:33:46 police officer, the amount of tools that you have now are
10:33:49 greater than when you first came in as a rookie, I would
10:33:53 assume, and those things include the scientific and
10:33:57 technological advances that we have gotten from the DNA, and
10:34:01 our ability to actually extract DNA from folks based on
10:34:06 probable cause to get evidence.
10:34:09 Now, again, the cameras do not fall under the probable cause
10:34:14 definition per se, but we definitely have other weapons that
10:34:19 are much more invasive than what we are talking about here.
10:34:22 I'm going to support the movement, whoever is going to make
10:34:30 this motion, of the ordinance going forward.
10:34:32 I think that the other discussions that Councilwoman Mulhern
10:34:36 brought up, I think, are absolutely important and something
10:34:41 we should continue to talk about, and we should continue to
10:34:43 be vigilant to make sure that Jane Castor or anyone else
10:34:47 that comes after her and any other mayor that comes after
10:34:50 this particular mayor understands that our role is to make
10:34:54 sure that their procedures and our ordinances are followed
10:34:57 to make sure that our folks not only feel protected, but
10:35:01 also feel as if their rights are minimally dealt with.
10:35:07 So I thank you, chair.
10:35:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Reddick and then Ms. Capin.
10:35:11 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Chairman, let me first say that, let
10:35:16 me remind everyone that two weeks ago, I believe, we had our
10:35:20 planning session, and we agreed, also violate the agreement
10:35:29 prior to January.
10:35:32 So just keep that in mind.
10:35:34 Secondly, we have had a lot of discussion about these
10:35:39 And cameras, you know, while we speak, cameras are downtown.
10:35:45 We have cameras in downtown now.
10:35:47 We have cameras in Ybor City.
10:35:49 We have cameras on the intersection that people are getting
10:35:53 tickets for running the red lights.
10:35:57 Unless someone tells me that we have the power to stop these
10:36:05 cameras from then going up or going forward because every
10:36:12 time I turn around, I read something in the paper from the
10:36:16 mayor of the city, saying those cameras are going to stay
10:36:22 And so unless we have the power to overrule the mayor, and
10:36:29 whether the legal department can tell us that or our
10:36:36 attorney can tell us that, I would be willing to support
10:36:39 anything to move forward to rid cameras of the city if we
10:36:43 have the power or the authority to do it.
10:36:45 Now, I don't know if our legal attorney is hearing me
10:36:46 because he's talking, but I need to know, do we have that
10:36:57 power or authority?
10:36:58 I keep hearing the mayor tell us that he has the authority.
10:37:02 About cameras in his city.
10:37:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Reddick, I apologize for conferring
10:37:09 with another council member.
10:37:10 Your question is whether -- as a matter of fact, that's a
10:37:14 very important question.
10:37:17 I have not opined to this council that you do not have the
10:37:23 authority granted to you under the Florida Constitution, the
10:37:25 Florida statutes in the charter, to exercise your
10:37:27 legislative authority.
10:37:30 Your police power.
10:37:34 So your question is -- or it is my opinion -- and I can
10:37:37 confer with Mr. Shimberg -- if it were council's direction
10:37:40 with respect to the removal in the city an ordinance could
10:37:45 be drafted that would accomplish your objective.
10:37:48 That was not the direction, especially when this came up the
10:37:51 last time.
10:37:52 There were two things in the city charter.
10:37:55 One is whether you had control over where the cameras could
10:37:58 be placed and could direct the cameras to be moved.
10:38:00 And the other would be, if you have the power to exercise
10:38:04 disposal authority over the cameras.
10:38:06 What would happen if they were removed?
10:38:08 Who had control over it then?
10:38:09 But with regard to your legislative authority -- and I hope
10:38:12 I am answering your question, not hearing all of it, I
10:38:16 apologize -- if it is council's desire to effectuate the
10:38:20 removal of cameras, I believe that could be accomplished.
10:38:23 But that was not the direction of the motion that you had
10:38:25 made to us.
10:38:26 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right.
10:38:28 I think Councilwoman Capin will address something about that
10:38:31 later so I will move on.
10:38:34 I think the best option we have -- and Councilman Cohen made
10:38:39 it when it comes down to the contract renewal -- I think we
10:38:43 can make our position known.
10:38:45 I think we have leveraged it to negotiate with the mayor
10:38:48 because we don't have to support it.
10:38:52 We can vote against it, and the removal.
10:38:54 And I think that removal of that contract, I believe at that
10:38:58 time the cameras need to be shut out or come down.
10:39:04 So I am going support this going forward.
10:39:07 And Mr. Chairman, I want to understand our rule of agreement
10:39:15 that we had at the meeting, I will be more than happy to
10:39:18 move this, make this motion.
10:39:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I appreciate it.
10:39:23 I am going to finish with the council members in a minute
10:39:25 and then I will go back to you, sir is, since you were the
10:39:28 first one to indicate you wanted to make a motion.
10:39:31 Ms. Mulhern, then Mrs. Capin.
10:39:34 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I am going to have to go over the -- oh, her
10:39:39 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes, I just had one thing that I wanted to
10:39:41 address, and that's it for me.
10:39:46 Responding to what Councilman Cohen and Councilman Reddick
10:39:50 said about the warranty, the maintenance agreement, we
10:39:56 were -- I feel like this is another case where we are being
10:40:00 perhaps misled, because when I spoke with Mr. Shimberg about
10:40:06 the contract, basically, it was a warranty agreement, and it
10:40:15 was signed on October 31st.
10:40:18 So it is a warranty that guarantees for one year the working
10:40:27 order of the camera.
10:40:29 It's not a maintenance agreement.
10:40:30 So when we come back here in October 2013, we may not even
10:40:40 see this again, because they may decide they don't each need
10:40:44 that warranty anymore.
10:40:45 They have got the cameras.
10:40:46 They are going to continue to maintain them.
10:40:48 That's what I was given to believe by Mr. Shimberg.
10:40:52 >> Chief Castor: I can address that for you.
10:40:58 Councilman Cohen is correct and you are correct as well in
10:41:01 that it is a maintenance agreement, and that's the case with
10:41:03 any type of technology project that you have.
10:41:05 And you can choose not to purchase that maintenance
10:41:10 But with a system of this size, we at the Tampa Police
10:41:14 Department pay maintenance agreements on all sorts of
10:41:19 systems and technology and machines so that we can continue
10:41:24 to use them, and they can continue to be maintained and
10:41:29 So Councilman Cohen is correct, that a year from now we will
10:41:33 come -- Tampa Police Department will come before City
10:41:37 Council --
10:41:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You are likely to ask for a renewal of
10:41:41 Then I just want to say this.
10:41:43 I don't believe -- I think if we just repeat what I said
10:41:47 before, if we vote for this today we are approving the
10:41:49 cameras, we are not showing any intent to question where
10:41:56 they are used, how they are used, if they are used.
10:41:59 That's end of story.
10:42:00 That's what happens.
10:42:03 So it sound like, you know, I'm learning to count after five
10:42:08 But that's all.
10:42:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am going speak after Mrs. Capin.
10:42:13 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10:42:14 So many things came up from this.
10:42:16 And in reference to Mr. Reddick, I'm going to look at our
10:42:28 And -- planning session, thank you.
10:42:35 From my understanding the amount of time we spoke, not how
10:42:38 many times, because there are a lot of questions here, and
10:42:41 it has to be exposed, and the public has a right to hear.
10:42:46 So that being said, one of the things, there's no harm in
10:42:52 building on future policy changes.
10:42:59 In other words trying to look at what could happen.
10:43:03 In the ordinance, there could be a street level height that
10:43:10 could be in there that would definitely keep the cameras.
10:43:14 As far as public privacy, what we are looking at now is
10:43:22 government, and we are the government, the citizens of this
10:43:26 city are the government.
10:43:28 People forget that that's what it is.
10:43:30 And there is a legal power,
10:43:35 Now, that being said, privacy in public is a modern concept.
10:43:42 And I'm talking about -- what we are arguing here is do we
10:43:51 want the government to watch us or not?
10:43:53 Which is ourselves watching ourselves.
10:44:10 Councilwoman Montelione made a good point.
10:44:13 And cost added to the ordinance.
10:44:14 Any changes to the policies had to be noticed to council.
10:44:25 If that's something that can be done.
10:44:27 You know, another administration might not be as transparent
10:44:33 as this one, and I think that what Councilman Cohen referred
10:44:40 to as, you know, coming back in August, with finance, would
10:44:47 that be an amendment to the ordinance if we decide to?
10:44:50 Or would it be -- it would be separate.
10:44:53 Those were the things that it's not really questioned.
10:44:58 It's just in my mind things that came up, and I felt like
10:45:01 the council members were very looking to the future.
10:45:06 Now, what we are looking at is that, again, we have another
10:45:10 bite at the apple, if you will, come August, or any time.
10:45:16 Actually, we don't have to wait till August to really look
10:45:18 at this again.
10:45:19 And I think that's one of the things that Councilman Cohen
10:45:24 referred to, is this is an ongoing dialogue and we will be
10:45:28 watching it very, very closely.
10:45:31 So with that said, I will approve this ordinance.
10:45:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:45:40 Let me just say this.
10:45:41 I'm not trying to get into debate with this administration
10:45:43 or any other past or future administrations.
10:45:46 But any elected official, including us, that sits on this
10:45:51 council, past, present and future, has the right to change
10:45:56 any procedures by five votes, any ordinances, or change that
10:46:02 ordinance with five votes.
10:46:04 I don't want to hear that the mayor is the sole ruler of the
10:46:08 He or she is not.
10:46:12 I believe that we all have a good working relationship with
10:46:15 this mayor, and past mayors, and will in the future.
10:46:18 And that doesn't mean that all the faults and realization of
10:46:23 the facts are always going to be agreed to. You have
10:46:28 When you sit down to order a meal, in your own minds, I
10:46:32 choose this over the other one.
10:46:34 You have disagreements in marriages.
10:46:35 That's why they are called divorces.
10:46:37 You have disagreements in purchasing of a car and color and
10:46:42 engine size.
10:46:43 You have so many choices to make nowadays, it's hard.
10:46:46 But first of all, I don't think you can pass anything today,
10:46:51 because this is labeled draft.
10:46:53 We don't pass draft anything unless you want to sign up for
10:46:57 the Army.
10:46:58 And what we have here is a right to ask administration or
10:47:03 the legal department to come back with an ordinance next
10:47:06 week or whenever the council meets again to put it in
10:47:09 perspective with all the information, and that's why it was
10:47:13 labeled draft so you can get all the information they wanted
10:47:16 and I make that assumption on my own part, to find out
10:47:19 exactly what the will is or not the will, but I don't
10:47:21 think -- and you can correct me, legal department, anytime
10:47:25 you all want -- if this council --
10:47:29 >> What you have marked as a draft is actually the police
10:47:33 department's policy for oversight on CCT, and that won't be
10:47:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand.
10:47:40 >> Castor: I just wanted to get council's input on that
10:47:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let's go on a little bit further.
10:47:47 Because the ordinance itself is in essence the draft in the
10:47:52 So what I'm saying is this.
10:47:56 And correct me if I am wrong, legal department, any one of
10:47:59 the six of you here.
10:48:01 I guess one.
10:48:04 It is this.
10:48:04 No matter who the mayor is, past, present or future, that
10:48:10 individual, he or she, has a responsibility under the oath
10:48:15 which they took to go by the charter.
10:48:18 Now, that individual cannot -- I'm not saying this one
10:48:23 has -- to say this is what I am going to do regardless.
10:48:26 That has never been said that I know of.
10:48:28 So what I'm saying is, we cannot assume that that's going to
10:48:33 It hasn't happened.
10:48:34 This body, past, present and future, also has an obligation
10:48:39 to do what they think is right.
10:48:41 That being said, at times, a budgetary item that the
10:48:46 administration wants, guess what.
10:48:48 If it doesn't pass with four votes it doesn't go any
10:48:52 And if it passes with four votes and is rejected on the
10:48:56 administrative side, it can pass with five votes over the
10:49:00 administrative objection.
10:49:03 Am I correct?
10:49:05 >>JIM SHIMBERG: Yes.
10:49:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So we are discussing ourselves without
10:49:08 realizing that you do have the power, to some degree, to
10:49:12 say, you know, I accept this, I want to work with you, I
10:49:15 want to make sure these guidelines are followed.
10:49:17 And I agree council members have said regarding the upcoming
10:49:21 maintenance fee, which really is take care of it with a
10:49:27 lease agreement.
10:49:28 I'm not saying it's a lease, but a maintenance agreement
10:49:31 means you are going to get paid for something, and rightly
10:49:35 So what I am saying, at the end of the day, this body has
10:49:37 the right to pass or reject this and has the right to pass
10:49:41 or reject it in the future if they see that according to
10:49:46 what is presented to them is not being done appropriately.
10:49:49 Am I correct?
10:49:53 >>JIM SHIMBERG: I believe so, if I understand what you said.
10:49:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not trying to ride herd over you.
10:49:58 You certainly have a lot more wisdom than I do.
10:50:02 What I'm saying is, this is what we have.
10:50:04 So let's not downplay our role, because it's just as
10:50:08 important to anyone else's role, it just done in a different
10:50:13 fashion according to what we have to work with.
10:50:15 But there's a lot of ways you learn Ybor City solving the
10:50:21 problem without having the power to do that, five out of
10:50:30 seven with safeguards.
10:50:33 So I need guidance on 52.
10:50:35 I have heard a couple members' desire.
10:50:38 Is the draft ordinance the same as this?
10:50:42 >>JIM SHIMBERG: There are the procedures which you are not
10:50:43 being asked to take action on.
10:50:45 And then there is an ordinance.
10:50:47 It's up to the pleasure of council.
10:50:48 If you would like to move forward with first reading.
10:50:50 If you would like to reschedule it, you can do that.
10:50:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.
10:50:55 Ms. Montelione.
10:50:56 No, Mr. Reddick.
10:50:57 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Chair, my original intent was to put
10:51:06 that ordinance for first reading, and to include they
10:51:12 removed whatever that --
10:51:18 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Change peeping to viewing.
10:51:22 >>JIM SHIMBERG: We can bring that back at a future time.
10:51:23 >>FRANK REDDICK: And come back --
10:51:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If you want to do something today, those
10:51:30 are minor changes that can be done between now and 1:30.
10:51:33 Am I correct?
10:51:36 >>JIM SHIMBERG: Whatever the pleasure of council is.
10:51:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm asking.
10:51:38 I'm just throwing it out.
10:51:40 >>JIM SHIMBERG: Yes, we can make those changes.
10:51:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't want to leave the bone marrow in
10:51:46 the bone.
10:51:47 >>FRANK REDDICK: The draft ordinance for first reading with
10:51:51 corrections at 1:30 today.
10:51:53 >> Second.
10:51:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Reddick.
10:51:57 Second by Mrs. Montelione.
10:51:58 Mrs. Capin and Mr. Cohen.
10:52:06 >>YVONNE CAPIN: May I?
10:52:07 Again, the height of the camera.
10:52:09 The height of the camera in the ordinance.
10:52:13 At street level.
10:52:19 >>JIM SHIMBERG: This ordinance relates to any person in the
10:52:23 And I don't know if we could add that in this particular.
10:52:27 Because this ordinance doesn't relate to the police
10:52:29 department's closed circuit cameras.
10:52:31 It relates to anybody with a video camera.
10:52:35 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Anybody with a video camera.
10:52:38 >>JIM SHIMBERG: Using it inappropriately by looking.
10:52:43 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Then voyeurism would be more difficult to --
10:52:47 as opposed to viewing?
10:52:50 Viewing is real broad.
10:52:52 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
10:52:54 I actual lie looked into that, and voyeurs -- the definition
10:53:01 of voyeurism includes sexual gratification, for viewing.
10:53:05 >> I'll wait till after.
10:53:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen?
10:53:13 >> Quite I'll wait till afterwards.
10:53:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The motion is on the floor.
10:53:17 I have a motion by Mr. Reddick, seconded by Mrs. Montelione
10:53:20 on this item which is item number 352 to proceed and bring
10:53:23 it back at 1:30 with the changes that were discussed
10:53:28 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
10:53:31 Opposed nay.
10:53:31 >> Nay.
10:53:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion passes 6 to 1.
10:53:37 Mr. Cohen.
10:53:38 >>HARRY COHEN: I think reflecting the discussion that was
10:53:40 had here today I would like to make another motion, and that
10:53:43 is that we schedule a workshop on August 29th, which is
10:53:49 our proposed workshop date for the month of August.
10:53:52 It would occur about six weeks before the beginning of the
10:53:55 next fiscal year at about eight or nine weeks prior to when
10:54:00 my understanding is the contract the maintenance agreement
10:54:05 will be up for renewal.
10:54:06 And at that time, it would be my suggestion that we review
10:54:11 the way that the program has worked over the past year, and
10:54:14 that we talk about the procedures that we speak to the
10:54:18 police department and the legal department about how they
10:54:20 have been employed, whether or not this program has been a
10:54:25 value for the taxpayers, and I would suggest that once we
10:54:28 have had that discussion, and we have had time to review the
10:54:32 cameras that we have already purchased, that we could decide
10:54:36 to pass an ordinance prohibiting the use of cameras, or we
10:54:39 could decide to go ahead and approve the maintenance
10:54:42 agreement for the existing camera system that we have.
10:54:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second by Mrs. Mulhern.
10:54:49 Discussion, Ms. Montelione.
10:54:51 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you very much.
10:54:55 As someone may recall, anyone may recall, during our
10:54:59 September 28th meeting, I made a motion that was noted
10:55:04 by everyone as being very lengthy, it included 12 items in
10:55:08 the motion.
10:55:10 And one of those items was a one-year study analysis by an
10:55:14 outside group such as criminology forensics at USF to engage
10:55:22 the university.
10:55:27 Another part of that was to set up some sort of, you know,
10:55:33 quarterly review of the camera locations to see if some
10:55:37 adjustments to those locations would be warranted, that they
10:55:39 were particular hot spots of crimes occurring in other
10:55:43 places rather than the ones originally anticipated because
10:55:45 the camera system is set up specifically for the RNC, so I
10:55:49 know there are cameras set up that view some areas of the
10:55:52 city that are not actively engaged in activities on a
10:55:56 regular basis today.
10:55:59 They were during the RNC.
10:56:01 And with our city changing building, planning, things going
10:56:05 on, the particular locations they are at right now may not
10:56:09 be intended in the future.
10:56:13 So I respect your request for this, but I asked for that
10:56:21 back in September, and at that time it wasn't felt that
10:56:26 parts of those, at least in the transcript that I had the
10:56:30 ability to review, from that meeting, Mr. Shimberg's
10:56:34 testimony, the discussion that we had on council, it wasn't
10:56:39 felt that having a committee review, or having an
10:56:47 independent outside group come in and review was something
10:56:50 that was going to be warranted, necessary, or any of the --
10:56:57 I'm not sure why we would go ahead and have that discussion
10:57:01 again when we already determined as a body it something the
10:57:04 people didn't want.
10:57:05 >>HARRY COHEN: That's not what I proposed.
10:57:08 I proposed we review how it's been going for a year prior to
10:57:13 making a decision about whether or not to continue it,
10:57:15 because we'll have a year's worth of information about how
10:57:19 it's going.
10:57:20 I didn't say anything about an outside group doing analysis
10:57:28 of camera systems.
10:57:29 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well, following again what Mrs. Mulhern
10:57:36 was talking about -- and correct me if I am wrong, Mrs.
10:57:39 Mulhern -- but we are either making the decision that
10:57:42 these -- that the public accept that they are going to be
10:57:48 surveilled, or we are not.
10:57:51 So I'm confused as to what it is the direction of this
10:57:57 council is.
10:57:57 I really am.
10:57:59 I don't know if we are accepting this, we are not accepting
10:58:03 this, we think that people should be viewed, we think that
10:58:08 people shouldn't be viewed, or what puts us for those who
10:58:14 decide whether or not these cameras are warranted in
10:58:16 performing their duties rather than someone who is an expert
10:58:19 in the field of criminology or someone who has studied, as
10:58:27 Mrs. Mulhern at ACLU, certain studies have taken place.
10:58:33 So I prefer having someone who is an expert in the field
10:58:36 providing information.
10:58:37 >>MARY MULHERN: I think that's a good suggestion.
10:58:40 I think when you brought it up, it was in the midst of
10:58:44 whether we were approving use of the cameras.
10:58:50 It was more than we could absorb at that point.
10:58:53 So I would suggest that we have the workshop as Councilman
10:58:58 Cohen suggested and that you make a separate motion, maybe
10:59:00 not necessarily today -- you might need some time to work on
10:59:06 it -- but how we could have a study, ongoing study for this
10:59:12 year so that when we come back for that workshop, we have
10:59:15 some data.
10:59:16 So I think that's a good idea.
10:59:18 I support that.
10:59:18 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you for the support.
10:59:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion on the floor.
10:59:28 I have a second.
10:59:29 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
10:59:31 Opposed nay.
10:59:34 What time do you want?
10:59:37 >>HARRY COHEN: 9 a.m. on August 29th.
10:59:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 9 a.m., August 29th.
10:59:42 I have been told by my aid that there are a if few city
10:59:51 employ that's would like to come in so I can get them back
10:59:54 to work on 74.
10:59:56 If I may, with council's permission, go to 74 and then come
10:59:59 back to the public hearings.
11:00:02 It's going to be done quickly.
11:00:03 There's a few of them.
11:00:09 There's one spokesman.
11:00:11 Anyone here from the city like to discuss item 74, please
11:00:14 come in.
11:00:14 There's one.
11:00:15 Where are the rest?
11:00:16 >>JAKE SLATER: Jake Slater, code enforcement.
11:00:25 I brought some other people with me today, if you have any
11:00:28 I'm here to report very happily to come back to City Council
11:00:33 and report on code enforcement efforts, residents located in
11:00:39 the City of Tampa, 5004 north 19th street.
11:00:44 This is the property that contains 18 mobile homes.
11:00:49 The property is not occupied family residents but is a
11:00:56 mobile home park that actually leases mobile home trailers.
11:00:58 The average rent is 400 to 600 a month.
11:01:02 The conditions of the mobile home trailers on the property
11:01:06 can be described as deteriorated, dilapidated and in
11:01:13 Numerous mobile home trailers that broke the windows,
11:01:17 missing skirts, and a rotten roof.
11:01:24 In October of 2011 the department of code enforcement
11:01:27 inspected with the consent of eight of the owners, eight of
11:01:30 the trailers, we activated code enforcement violations for
11:01:36 various type of structure repairs and overall general
11:01:39 conditions that posed a serious threat to public health,
11:01:43 safety and welfare and at that time the owner was put on
11:01:50 notice of the problems.
11:01:50 But the issue was that he did absolutely nothing to actually
11:01:54 fix any of the trailers.
11:01:58 In October of this year, those cases went to the Code
11:02:01 Enforcement Board.
11:02:03 They were found to be in actually violation and actually
11:02:07 guilty or fines were assessed from the amount of $400 a day
11:02:11 up to $1,000 a day depending on the overall type of
11:02:14 conditions of the trailers.
11:02:18 We felt that in November, in November, that we needed to do
11:02:21 something different.
11:02:22 So the inspectors went back in, with the consent of two of
11:02:27 the owners of the 18 trailers, and were able to go back in
11:02:31 and inspect them.
11:02:32 We found that it had not improved at all.
11:02:36 Plumbing was not up to code.
11:02:37 Missing drains, propped up pipes, no hot water, missing
11:02:44 sprouts, nonfunctioning doors, windows, locks, broken smoke
11:02:49 detectors, holes in the wall, no heat, evidence of termites,
11:02:54 and other insects.
11:02:58 Those are interiors that the homes were found unfit for
11:03:04 human inhabitation.
11:03:05 Again attempts were made to contact the own we are no
11:03:08 He didn't do anything.
11:03:10 We made the decision to apply for a Hillsborough County
11:03:15 inspection warrant.
11:03:17 This is the first time in probably actually decades, or
11:03:22 maybe even in the history of code enforcement that this has
11:03:26 been done.
11:03:26 We went to the Hillsborough County circuit court judge,
11:03:29 presented the facts to him, and he issued an inspection
11:03:33 That allowed us to go back onto the property and inspect the
11:03:37 trailers, not the ones that were occupied by to gain overall
11:03:45 type of consent.
11:03:46 We had to give him 24 hours notice.
11:03:48 It's not any type of emergency such as a search warranty
11:03:51 police department.
11:03:52 We had to give him 24 hours notice.
11:03:54 We execute executed that on November 28th.
11:03:58 Nine of the 18 mobile homes were determined to meet the
11:04:02 criteria for actually demolition, going to tear down nine of
11:04:06 the homes.
11:04:08 13 units were actually posted unfit for human habitation, 13
11:04:13 homes were posted in order to vacate.
11:04:18 When we issued the order to vacate, we gave the tenant seven
11:04:23 days to find a new place.
11:04:25 I have some people here that can explain how the City of
11:04:28 Tampa stepped in to help these people.
11:04:35 One of the things that I wanted to emphasize was that this
11:04:39 takes a consolidated team overall effort.
11:04:43 Code enforcement, Tampa Police Department, Tampa Fire
11:04:45 Rescue, housing and development, overall bureau, it reallied
11:04:52 really worked out well.
11:04:54 When we made the overall decision to go into these homes,
11:04:57 it's not an easy task.
11:05:01 I walked into every one of the trailers and it's something
11:05:04 that I had never seen before.
11:05:06 But I could tell you that the people were happy when we were
11:05:10 there, but they were afraid.
11:05:13 What are we going to do?
11:05:14 Where are we going to go?
11:05:16 It worked out well.
11:05:17 We are going to relocate eight folks.
11:05:20 Two of them actually have apartments as of now.
11:05:24 I'm awful proud of the work that was done.
11:05:28 But again it takes time to do this.
11:05:29 (Bell sounds)
11:05:31 It doesn't happen overnight.
11:05:32 It's easy to sit back on the sidelines and say code isn't
11:05:36 doing this, code isn't doing that.
11:05:38 But I can tell you that we are going to be doing more of
11:05:44 It's unfortunate, because we have a lot of these type of
11:05:48 overall homes in there that are in bad shape.
11:05:52 But when we go into someone's home, it's all they have.
11:05:56 Got to do it in the right way.
11:05:58 I'm here to answer any of the overall questions.
11:06:02 I had the fire marshal, Tampa Police Department right here.
11:06:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand that.
11:06:07 But I don't know what sparked this thing to begin with, but
11:06:14 I don't like the system that's going on.
11:06:16 Are you happy with the system you have to work with it?
11:06:19 Just answer that question.
11:06:20 >> I'm not happy with the time factors, no.
11:06:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's why we are setting that meeting
11:06:26 between your avenues and my office and trying to get it
11:06:28 together to work on a better system if possible.
11:06:32 Tell us if you can't do it.
11:06:33 That's what this is all about.
11:06:35 I don't care who brings it up.
11:06:36 I just want to get it resolved, period.
11:06:39 We all are, I believe.
11:06:41 Am I correct?
11:06:41 >>JAKE SLATER: Want to thank my colleagues --
11:06:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to thank them all also.
11:06:52 We can talk about this from now until the time my hair grows
11:06:57 that thing you see on TV and put the water on.
11:07:00 But that's what we want to work on, the chia or whatever it
11:07:05 I'm not trying to make it a humorous thing but we are going
11:07:12 to solve the thing hopefully if we can legally.
11:07:15 >>JAKE SLATER: I look forward to working with council.
11:07:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Capin?
11:07:20 Mr. Reddick or whoever?
11:07:22 >>FRANK REDDICK: Well, Mr. Slater, I have been to that
11:07:30 trailer park.
11:07:33 I had the opportunity to visit that trailer park, coming out
11:07:36 and seeing what you did, and I agree with you, the
11:07:42 conditions out there were very deplorable and no one should
11:07:44 be living in those types of conditions, and it's amazing to
11:07:51 me how long people have been living out there under those
11:07:54 conditions, and afraid to speak out because they had no
11:07:59 other alternative, nowhere else to go, and they were afraid
11:08:03 the landlord was going to throw them out if they speak out.
11:08:07 And when I was invited to take the tour of that facility, it
11:08:14 frightened me.
11:08:15 So I just want to thank you and all of the other departments
11:08:22 that initially go out there and do what you did, and I hope
11:08:26 that knock the whole building down because I think all of
11:08:37 them need to come down.
11:08:38 So I appreciate what took place.
11:08:39 >>JAKE SLATER: Thank you.
11:08:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other council members?
11:08:49 >> (off microphone) likewise, we are going to -- Chairman
11:08:55 Miranda will be meeting, and we will have that.
11:08:58 Again, it's the resources.
11:09:01 It's the resource along with the system that we have here,
11:09:06 and again appeared before us month after month after month.
11:09:12 And there is obviously something in the system that needs to
11:09:16 be corrected.
11:09:18 And I appreciate your hard work and your staff's very hard
11:09:21 work covering this very large city.
11:09:24 I appreciate very much.
11:09:26 You are all appreciated.
11:09:28 That's all I need to say.
11:09:30 Thank you.
11:09:30 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Quick question.
11:09:32 Jake, when you and I did the tour the first time, I think it
11:09:37 was the first time, we went by one of the trailer parks off
11:09:41 of Nebraska Avenue?
11:09:43 >>JAKE SLATER: Yes.
11:09:44 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Have we followed up?
11:09:46 Remember, there was a young lady who approached us, and just
11:09:48 exactly what you said, Mr. Reddick, she saw we were in a
11:09:52 code enforcement car, and she said she was moving out
11:09:55 because she could no longer stand the treatment that she was
11:09:58 receiving, but she had family who still lived in the trailer
11:10:01 park, and she was okay to speak out because she was already
11:10:06 But her family didn't want to say anything for exactly the
11:10:10 same reasons.
11:10:10 >>JAKE SLATER: We followed up with that, yes.
11:10:13 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And you have been able to turn that
11:10:18 place around.
11:10:19 >> It looks a whole lot better.
11:10:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you all very much.
11:10:28 All right.
11:10:29 Now we go to item 53.
11:10:36 Even though this is for second reading they want a
11:10:40 We will open 353 and then ask council members for a
11:10:43 continuation to December 20th.
11:10:45 We have a motion to open.
11:10:47 Second by Mrs. Mulhern on 53.
11:10:51 Motion by Mr. Cohen.
11:10:53 Motion passes unanimously.
11:10:56 Anyone that wishes to speak to item 353 for the continuance
11:10:59 Continuance only?
11:11:05 I see no one.
11:11:06 I need a motion to continue to December 20.
11:11:09 All in favor of that motion?
11:11:16 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I need clarification.
11:11:18 I was asked to read something into the record.
11:11:20 It would be appropriate at the continuance.
11:11:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: At the continuance.
11:11:23 It will not be heard today.
11:11:25 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
11:11:27 Opposed nay.
11:11:28 >>THE CLERK: That will be at 9:30.
11:11:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 9:30.
11:11:33 Yes, ma'am.
11:11:34 These are ordinances for second reading.
11:11:37 I need to open items 54 through 77.
11:11:40 I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione, second by Mr. Cohen.
11:11:43 All in favor of that motion?
11:11:45 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:11:48 Items 354 through 67 are now open for second reading.
11:11:53 These are quasi-judicial.
11:11:58 Witnesses will be sworn in.
11:11:59 Anyone to speak on 54 through 67, please rise and be sworn
11:12:03 (Oath administered by Clerk)
11:12:05 Item number 54.
11:12:19 Ordinance for second reading.
11:12:23 Yes, sir.
11:12:26 >>MORRIS MASSEY: Here on behalf of petitioner, 101 East
11:12:28 I'm just here if there are any questions.
11:12:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone in the audience care to speak on
11:12:33 item number 54?
11:12:36 I see no one.
11:12:39 Motion to close by Mr. Suarez.
11:12:40 Second by Mrs. Montelione.
11:12:41 All in favor of the motion?
11:12:44 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:12:45 Mr. Cohen, will you kindly take number 54?
11:12:48 >> I move an ordinance being presented for second reading
11:12:51 and, do an ordinance amending ordinance number 8577-A,
11:12:55 passed and ordained by the City Council with the City of
11:12:58 Tampa on June 14th, 1984 correcting a scrivener's error
11:13:03 in the legal description of a certain right-of-way as
11:13:05 described and vacated by ordinance number 8577-A by
11:13:10 substituting it with the new legal description contained in
11:13:13 section 1 hereof authorizing the execution of a quit claim
11:13:17 deed by the City of Tampa in favor of Ferman premiere
11:13:20 finance LLC for the vacated right-of-way, providing for
11:13:24 severability, providing an effective date.
11:13:25 >> Second.
11:13:26 >> I have a motion by Mr. Cohen.
11:13:28 I have a second by Mr. Suarez on 54.
11:13:30 Further discussion by council members?
11:13:39 Roll call vote.
11:13:40 Vote and record.
11:13:40 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent at
11:13:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We go to item number 55 which correlates
11:13:52 with later item 72.
11:13:53 >> Ron Beeler, staff for historic, planner.
11:14:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What are you planning?
11:14:03 >> I'm planning on speaking today.
11:14:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Good.
11:14:10 We are plan opening hearing you.
11:14:12 >> This is for application for the address of 1829 through
11:14:16 1833 at the corner of 7th Avenue and 19th street,
11:14:22 the property in question, 7th Avenue here, 19th
11:14:25 street, has three bays, 7th Avenue and one secondary
11:14:34 entrance off the rear.
11:14:35 This is a post renovation project.
11:14:43 The windows have been reinstalled, they were boarded up and
11:14:46 there was some boarding on that secondary entrance off the
11:14:50 As indicated, on this photo here, this is facing 7th
11:14:54 And looking at the second level.
11:14:56 This is prior to rehabilitation.
11:14:58 The condition of the structure.
11:15:03 As you go around to the is 19th Street side, it was
11:15:06 vacant at that time.
11:15:07 The owner Mr. Walter Aye chose to rehabilitate the
11:15:16 This is the secondary entrance off the rear, with some
11:15:19 specialty drafts on the bottom.
11:15:20 You can see the glazing, the new windows and the door that
11:15:24 were reinstalled.
11:15:26 Moving to the interior, it was completely gutted at the
11:15:30 time, and no services or offices were in that building at
11:15:35 that time.
11:15:37 After rehabilitation looking back on the inside, toward the
11:15:43 exterior, you see the rehabilitation.
11:15:47 Just to continue with a couple more photos, the entry level.
11:15:57 And how it was brought back.
11:16:01 And then lastly, showing some of the interior damage, some
11:16:09 of the smoke, on the vacant upstairs, and then after
11:16:12 rehabilitation, on the windows, and appropriate time.
11:16:19 This rehabilitation is consistent with the secretary of
11:16:23 interior standard and meet the criteria. I'm here to answer
11:16:26 any questions.
11:16:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions by council members?
11:16:28 Thank you very much.
11:16:29 Anyone in the audience care to speak on item number 55?
11:16:33 I see in one.
11:16:35 I have I have a motion to close by Mr. Cohen, second by Mrs.
11:16:39 All in favor of the motion?
11:16:41 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:16:42 Mrs. Mulhern, would you kindly take number 55, please?
11:16:46 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented for
11:16:48 second reading and adoption, an ordinance approving a
11:16:51 historic application relative to the restoration,
11:16:55 renovation, rehabilitation of certain property owned by
11:16:59 storing ton corporation, Walter AYE, located at 1829-1833
11:17:04 East 7th Avenue and 1710 north 19th street, Tampa,
11:17:08 Florida, in the Ybor City historic district, based upon
11:17:11 certain findings, providing for notice to the property
11:17:13 appraiser of Hillsborough County, providing for
11:17:16 severability, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
11:17:19 conflict, providing an effective date.
11:17:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Mulhern, a second
11:17:25 by Mr. Suarez.
11:17:26 Further discussion by council members?
11:17:27 All in favor?
11:17:30 We have to go roll call vote.
11:17:31 I'm sorry.
11:17:32 Roll call vote.
11:17:33 Vote and record.
11:17:34 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Reddick being absent at
11:17:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:17:49 We go to item number 56.
11:17:51 >> Joel Sousa, zoning department.
11:18:03 Approved by administrators.
11:18:05 >>MARK BENTLEY: 201 North Franklin Street, Tampa 363602.
11:18:11 I have been sworn.
11:18:11 I represent the applicant.
11:18:12 I'm here to see if council has any questions or concerns.
11:18:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions by council members?
11:18:18 Anyone in the audience care to speak on item number 56?
11:18:21 I see no one.
11:18:22 >>HARRY COHEN: Move to close.
11:18:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And second by Mrs. Capone.
11:18:30 All in favor?
11:18:31 The ayes have it unanimously on 56.
11:18:33 Ms. Capin, would you kindly take number 56?
11:18:37 >>YVONNE CAPIN: An ordinance presented for second reading
11:18:39 and adoption, an ordinance repealing ordinance number
11:18:41 2012-61 approving a special use permit S-2 for alcoholic
11:18:46 beverage sales, large venue on proposals only and making
11:18:50 lawful the sale of beverages regardless of alcoholic
11:18:53 content, beer, wine, liquor, on that certain lot, plot, or
11:18:57 tract of land located at 611-655 North Franklin Street,
11:19:02 units 611, 633, 655, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly
11:19:07 described in section 2 imposing certain conditions based on
11:19:11 the location of the property that all ordinances and parts
11:19:14 of ordinances in conflict are repealed, providing an
11:19:18 effective date.
11:19:18 >> Second.
11:19:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Capin.
11:19:22 I have a second by Mr. Suarez.
11:19:24 Roll call vote.
11:19:25 Vote and record.
11:19:27 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Reddick being absent at
11:19:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We go to item 57 and 58.
11:19:42 Land change for parking and the other is the alcohol permit
11:19:46 Yes, ma'am.
11:19:48 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land development.
11:19:49 Item 57 has been certified.
11:19:53 Also, all other rezoning and special uses, certain site
11:19:58 plans have been certified for nonalcoholic site cases.
11:20:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We will take separate votes.
11:20:08 Anyone to speak on item 57?
11:20:10 Please come forward.
11:20:11 >> Joseph Diaz, office 2522 west Kennedy Boulevard.
11:20:21 I am here to sworn and here to answer any questions you may
11:20:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions by council members?
11:20:25 Anyone in the audience care to speak on item 57?
11:20:27 I see no one.
11:20:30 Need a motion to close.
11:20:31 >>MIKE SUAREZ: So moved.
11:20:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second by Mrs. Montelione on 57.
11:20:37 All in favor of that motion?
11:20:39 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:20:41 Mr. Suarez, would you kindly take number 57, please?
11:20:44 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I move an ordinance being presented for
11:20:46 second reading and adoption, an ordinance approving a
11:20:49 special use permit S-2 approving parking, off-street,
11:20:53 commercial in an Ringling Museum-16 residential multifamily
11:20:57 zoning district in the general vicinity of 1716 north A
11:21:01 street in the city of Tampa, Florida and as more
11:21:04 particularly described in section 1 hereof providing an
11:21:06 effective date.
11:21:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is the roll call vote on 57.
11:21:11 Roll call vote.
11:21:12 Vote and record.
11:21:13 >>THE CLERK: Who was the second?
11:21:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen.
11:21:25 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Reddick being absent at
11:21:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item 58.
11:21:30 >> Joel Sousa, land development.
11:21:38 Plans have been certified by the zoning administrator.
11:21:41 Happy to answer any questions.
11:21:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone care to speak?
11:21:44 Mrs. Montelione.
11:21:44 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Can you state the conditions that were
11:21:52 requested by council?
11:22:37 >> Site plan modifications and no music on the front patio.
11:22:40 >> Thank you very much.
11:22:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else in the audience care to speak
11:22:47 on item 58?
11:22:48 Come forward, please.
11:22:53 >> Joseph Diaz.
11:22:55 2522 West Kennedy Boulevard.
11:22:57 I'm here on behalf of the petitioner.
11:22:59 And I'm prepared to answer any questions you might have.
11:23:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else in the audience care to speak
11:23:05 on item 58?
11:23:07 We need a motion to close.
11:23:09 We have a motion by Mr. Cohen on a close vote with Mr.
11:23:13 Suarez for a second there.
11:23:16 This is a roll call vote.
11:23:17 I need a motion from someone to move this item.
11:23:22 >> I'll be glad to do that.
11:23:24 >> Second.
11:23:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You have to read the ordinance, Mr.
11:23:29 [ Laughter ]
11:23:30 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair.
11:23:31 I present an ordinance for second reading and adoption, an
11:23:34 ordinance approving a special use permit S-2 for alcoholic
11:23:38 beverage sales, restaurant, on premises only, and making
11:23:41 lawful the sale of beverages regardless of alcoholic
11:23:44 content, beer wine and liquor on that certain lot, plot or
11:23:47 tract of land located at 1719 and 1723 West Kennedy
11:23:51 Boulevard, Tampa, Florida as more particularly described in
11:23:55 section 2, that all ordinances or parts of ordinances in
11:23:58 conflict are repealed, providing an effective date.
11:24:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion for approval by Mr.
11:24:05 Seconded by Ms. Mulhern on item number 58.
11:24:09 Roll call vote.
11:24:11 Vote and record.
11:24:11 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda, Montelione and
11:24:26 Reddick voting no.
11:24:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:24:30 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Would it be appropriate for me to make a
11:24:33 statement regarding my vote on that?
11:24:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, ma'am.
11:24:36 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I just want to state fought record that
11:24:38 the reason I voted no on this particular application and the
11:24:40 reason I asked for the conditions to be read before we took
11:24:46 the vote is because I believe that this site, it would be
11:24:49 appropriate to have outdoor music, and I didn't agree with
11:24:52 that condition.
11:24:53 So I just want to let you know why I voted no against this
11:24:57 It's not because I didn't think that it's a viable use, and
11:25:00 that it's a good use.
11:25:01 I just don't believe that you should be restricted from
11:25:04 having outdoor music at this location.
11:25:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:25:08 Item number A 59.
11:25:10 >> Joel Sousa, land development.
11:25:21 It has been approved by the zoning administrator.
11:25:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone care to speak on item 59?
11:25:28 >> Nina McGucken Alvarez, 1320 9th Avenue, Suite 210, Tampa,
11:25:32 Florida 33605.
11:25:34 I'm here on behalf of the petitioner to answer any questions
11:25:36 that council might have.
11:25:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Questions by council members?
11:25:40 Thank you very much.
11:25:40 Anyone in the audience care to speak on 59?
11:25:44 Please come forward.
11:25:45 I see no one.
11:25:47 Motion to close by Mr. Cohen.
11:25:49 Seconded by Mr. Suarez.
11:25:50 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
11:25:52 Opposed nay.
11:25:53 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:25:54 Mrs. Montelione, would you kindly read number 59, please?
11:25:57 >> I move an ordinance being presented for second reading
11:26:05 and adoption, an ordinance approving special use permit S-2
11:26:09 for alcoholic beverage sales, bar-lounge consumption on
11:26:13 premises and package sales consumption off premises, and
11:26:16 making lawful the sale of beer and wine at or from that
11:26:19 certain lot, plot or tract of land locate it at 1600 east
11:26:23 8th Avenue, unit D-102, Tampa, Florida as more
11:26:27 particularly described in section 2 imposing certain
11:26:29 conditions based upon the location of the property, that all
11:26:33 ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict are repealed,
11:26:36 providing an effective date.
11:26:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mr. Montelione, second by Mr.
11:26:45 Vote and record.
11:26:45 >> Motion carried unanimously.
11:26:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
11:26:54 Item 60.
11:26:54 >> Joel Sousa, land development.
11:27:03 Plan has been approved by the zoning administrator.
11:27:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions by council members?
11:27:09 Item 60.
11:27:10 Is petitioner here?
11:27:11 >> Michael Hutchinson, here to answer any questions.
11:27:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions by council members?
11:27:29 Anyone to speak?
11:27:37 >>YVONNE CAPIN: There was a tire store there.
11:27:38 There is no more?
11:27:39 >> No.
11:27:40 We have a business license to show it was not a tire store
11:27:43 at the time.
11:27:45 >> I found that it was.
11:27:53 I went through the transcript and wanted to make sure.
11:27:56 >> Right.
11:27:57 It hasn't been a tire store, not for a long time.
11:28:01 >> Motion to close by Mr. Reddick, seconded by Mr. Suarez on
11:28:08 item number 60.
11:28:09 All in favor of that please indicate by saying aye.
11:28:12 Opposed nay.
11:28:12 Ayes have it unanimously.
11:28:14 Mr. Cohen, would you take number 60, please?
11:28:16 >> I move an ordinance being presented for second reading
11:28:19 and adoption, requiring a special use permit S-2 for
11:28:24 alcoholic beverage sales, restaurant on premises only and
11:28:27 making lawful the sale of beverages regardless of alcoholic
11:28:30 content, beer, wine and liquor on that certain lot, plot or
11:28:35 tract of land located at 2901 west Columbus drive, Tampa,
11:28:39 Florida as more particularly described in section
11:28:52 >> Seconded by Mrs. Mulhern on number 60.
11:28:56 Vote and record.
11:28:56 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Capin, Miranda, and Suarez
11:29:05 voting no.
11:29:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much for peering.
11:29:08 Item number 61.
11:29:19 I'm not trying to make it difficult.
11:29:21 It usually follows 60.
11:29:22 >> I'm sorry.
11:29:28 All the remaining cases are certified for rezoning so we
11:29:32 should be good to go.
11:29:33 >> Anyone in the audience care to speak to item number 61?
11:29:37 I see no one.
11:29:38 >> Move to close.
11:29:39 >> Motion to close by Mr. Cohen.
11:29:41 Seconded by Mrs. Mulhern.
11:29:44 All in favor of the motion indicate by saying aye.
11:29:47 Opposed nay.
11:29:47 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:29:49 Mrs. Mulhern, would you kindly take number 61, please?
11:29:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented for
11:29:55 second reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property
11:29:57 in the general vicinity of 3006 and 3008 west Bay Vista
11:30:03 Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly
11:30:05 described in section 1 from zoning district classification
11:30:08 RS-60 residential single-family to PD planned development,
11:30:13 residential, single-family detached, providing an effective
11:30:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Mulhern.
11:30:18 I have a second by Mr. Cohen.
11:30:21 Roll call vote.
11:30:24 Vote and record.
11:30:24 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Suarez being absent at
11:30:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 62.
11:30:48 Anyone in the audience care to speak to item number 62?
11:30:52 Is petitioner here?
11:30:53 Anyone here?
11:30:53 If your item is coming, please move forward because I have a
11:30:56 full agenda and I might skip you inadvertently, or maybe on
11:31:00 >> I have been sworn.
11:31:09 If you have any questions.
11:31:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions at this time?
11:31:12 Thank you very much.
11:31:13 Anyone in the audience care to speak to this item?
11:31:15 Need a motion to close.
11:31:17 Motion to close by Mr. Cohen.
11:31:19 Seconded by Mulhern.
11:31:24 All in I ever fa of the motion?
11:31:25 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:31:27 Mr. Reddick, would you kindly take number 62, please?
11:31:31 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move an ordinance for second reading and
11:31:34 adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the general
11:31:36 vicinity of 912 south Tampania Avenue in the city of Tampa,
11:31:40 Florida, and more particularly described in section 1, RM-16
11:31:47 multifamily to PD planned development, office, medical,
11:31:51 apartment, commercial off-street providing an effective
11:31:54 >> I have a motion by Mr. Reddick.
11:31:57 Second by Mrs. Mulhern.
11:31:58 Roll call vote and record.
11:31:59 Vote and record.
11:31:59 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Suarez being absent at
11:32:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 63.
11:32:14 >> Anne Pollack, representing the applicant.
11:32:26 I'm here if you have any questions.
11:32:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions by council members?
11:32:30 Anyone in the audience care to speak at this time on item
11:32:33 Please come forward.
11:32:34 Need a motion to close.
11:32:36 >> So moved.
11:32:36 >> I have a motion to close by Mr. Cohen, second -- I know
11:32:42 your name -- by Mr. Suarez.
11:32:48 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
11:32:51 Opposed nay.
11:32:55 Ms. Capin, would you kindly take number 63?
11:33:02 >>YVONNE CAPIN: An ordinance rezoning property in the
11:33:04 general vicinity of 1711 and 1715 West Platt street, 213,
11:33:10 215, 219, and 223 south Rome Avenue, 202 and 210 south
11:33:18 Packwood Avenue and 1720 west Cleveland street in the city
11:33:23 of Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in section
11:33:25 1 from zoning district classifications CI commercial
11:33:31 intensive and PD planned development to PD planned
11:33:34 development, residential, multifamily, providing an
11:33:36 effective date.
11:33:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Capin, a second
11:33:41 by Mr. Suarez.
11:33:42 Roll call vote.
11:33:43 Vote and record.
11:33:43 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
11:34:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item 64.
11:34:08 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: On behalf of Nancy Barrington requests your
11:34:17 >> Good morning.
11:34:18 I'm Linda Saul-Sena and I have been sworn in.
11:34:22 I'm saddened to be here today because zoning has caused much
11:34:29 tension between myself and my neighbor.
11:34:31 Our families have a long history of friendship.
11:34:36 As a life-long preservation advocate I'm deeply disappointed
11:34:40 that she intends to demolish her historic home and build two
11:34:50 But our existing laws do not protect her home.
11:34:52 My issues today is that the proposed PD calls for a 34-foot
11:34:59 height and 50% lot coverage with the home on parcel B.
11:35:05 This is completely at odds with the 2400 square foot home
11:35:09 she described to me, her neighbors who signed her petition,
11:35:13 and the Davis Island civic association board.
11:35:17 Please do not approve the proposed PD zoning today without
11:35:23 adding the simple note, a height limit of 25 feet and lot
11:35:27 coverage of 40%, which was which would more than allow the
11:35:32 home that she's proposed to us.
11:35:34 I thank you for your consideration and urge you to help me
11:35:38 protect the beauty and character of my neighborhood by
11:35:41 limiting the scale of development to be consistent with the
11:35:44 surrounding homes.
11:35:47 At the previous hearing, Mr. Suarez recognized that there
11:35:52 was a significant discrepancy between the story shared by
11:35:58 the neighbor and the assertion of her attorney that the site
11:36:00 plan should be the maximum possible with the possible
11:36:05 maximum height and site coverage.
11:36:06 Please vote to include the simple note of a 25-foot height
11:36:11 limit and 40% lot coverage to keep the story straight and to
11:36:16 keep the character of the neighborhood maintained.
11:36:18 Thank you for your consideration.
11:36:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:36:23 Anyone else care to speak on this item?
11:36:25 Petitioner, you have five minutes for rebuttal.
11:36:30 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Mr. Chairman, Mrs. Saul-Sena's request
11:36:37 conflicts with the staff report, Planning Commission report,
11:36:40 and does not contain one scintilla of competent substantial
11:36:45 I sincerely request your approval this morning.
11:36:48 Thank you.
11:36:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:36:51 I need a motion to close.
11:36:52 Motion to close by Mr. Reddick, seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
11:36:58 All in favor of that motion?
11:37:01 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:37:02 Mr. Suarez, would you kindly take number 64, please?
11:37:05 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I move an ordinance being presented for
11:37:08 second reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property
11:37:11 in the general vicinity of 202 Caspian street in the city of
11:37:17 Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in section 1
11:37:19 from zoning district classification RS-75, residential
11:37:22 single-family, to PD, planned development, residential,
11:37:25 single-family detached, providing an effective date.
11:37:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Suarez.
11:37:29 Do I have a second here?
11:37:31 >>FRANK REDDICK: Second.
11:37:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second by Mr. Reddick.
11:37:34 Roll call vote on 64.
11:37:36 Vote and record.
11:37:45 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
11:37:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much for attending.
11:37:51 We go to item number 65.
11:38:00 >> Marilyn Healey, and I'm here to answer any questions.
11:38:06 >> Any questions by council members at this time?
11:38:09 Anyone else in the audience care to speak on this item, item
11:38:12 number 65?
11:38:13 Item 65, please come forward.
11:38:15 I see no one.
11:38:16 Need a motion to close.
11:38:18 I have a motion to close by Mr. Reddick, seconded by Mr.
11:38:21 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
11:38:24 Opposed nay.
11:38:24 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:38:26 Mrs. Montelione, would you take number 65, please?
11:38:31 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I present an ordinance for second
11:38:33 reading -- wait, let me read from the final agenda.
11:38:41 Being presented for second reading and consideration, an
11:38:43 ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of 1601
11:38:46 and 17 -- 1701 north Lois Avenue and 4120 West Spruce Street
11:38:56 in the city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly
11:38:57 described from section 1 from zoning district
11:38:59 classifications PD planned development, residential,
11:39:02 multifamily and retail to PD planned development residential
11:39:06 multifamily, providing an effective date.
11:39:06 >> I have a motion and second.
11:39:10 Vote and record.
11:39:10 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
11:39:15 >> Item number 66.
11:39:30 Number 66.
11:39:40 >> Here for the petitioner if you have any questions.
11:39:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions by council members?
11:39:46 Anyone in the audience care to speak on 66, please come
11:39:49 I have a motion to close by Mr. Suarez Cohen, seconded by
11:39:54 Mr. Suarez.
11:39:56 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:39:58 Mr. Cohen, would you take 66, please?
11:40:01 >> Move an ordinance for second reading and adoption, an
11:40:03 ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of 2204
11:40:06 grant street and 708 south 22nd street in the city of Tampa,
11:40:10 Florida and more particularly described in section 1 from
11:40:14 zoning district classification CG commercial general and
11:40:17 RS-50 residential single-family to PD planned development,
11:40:21 residential, single-family, detached and single-family
11:40:24 attached, providing an effective date.
11:40:25 >> Second.
11:40:27 >> I have a motion by Mr. Cohen, a second by Mr. Suarez.
11:40:30 Will roll call vote on 66.
11:40:32 >> I need one more vote.
11:40:51 Motion carried unanimously.
11:40:52 >> All right.
11:40:58 Item 67.
11:40:58 >> Happy holidays to all of you.
11:41:04 Elizabeth Abernathy representing the owner.
11:41:09 I'm here to answer any questions you might have.
11:41:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions by council members?
11:41:13 Need a motion to close.
11:41:14 >> Second.
11:41:15 >> Motion by Mr. Cohen.
11:41:16 Second by Mr. Suarez to close on 67.
11:41:19 All in favor of the motion please indicate saying aye.
11:41:23 Opposed nay.
11:41:24 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:41:26 Mrs. Mulhern, would you kindly take number 67, please?
11:41:30 >> I move an ordinance being presented for second reading
11:41:32 and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the general
11:41:35 vicinity of 4010 and 4100 Boy Scout Boulevard in the city of
11:41:40 Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in section 1
11:41:43 from zoning district classification PD planned development,
11:41:47 mixed use, office, retail, hotel and residential, to PD,
11:41:51 planned development, mixed use, office, commercial,
11:41:53 multifamily residential and hotel, providing an effective
11:41:55 >> Second.
11:41:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mrs. Mulhern, a second by Mr.
11:42:01 Roll call vote on 67. Vote and record.
11:42:03 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
11:42:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is item 68 that corresponds with 66
11:42:20 on the development agreement.
11:42:21 >> Anne Pollack, Mechanik Nuccio, 305 South Boulevard
11:42:29 representing the applicant on this development agreement.
11:42:31 I'm here if you have any questions.
11:42:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions at this time?
11:42:35 I need someone to move the resolution.
11:42:38 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move the resolution.
11:42:41 >> Second.
11:42:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seconded by Mr. Cohen on 68.
11:42:44 Moved by Mr. Reddick.
11:42:45 All in favor of the motion --
11:42:46 >> I'm sorry, this is a public hearing.
11:42:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone in the audience care to speak on
11:42:51 number 68?
11:42:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
11:42:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Are you sure no one else wants to speak?
11:42:59 I see no one.
11:43:01 I need to close the hearing.
11:43:04 I got thrown off rhythm.
11:43:08 I got used to knuckleballs.
11:43:11 I have to throw a fast ball once in a while.
11:43:13 Motion to close by Mrs. Montelione, seconded by Mr. Suarez.
11:43:17 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:43:18 Mr. Reddick moved the resolution, seconded by Mr. Cohen.
11:43:22 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
11:43:25 Opposed nay.
11:43:25 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:43:27 We go to item number 69.
11:43:30 This is a continued -- let's open this hearing.
11:43:34 It's already open.
11:43:35 >> So moved.
11:43:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I need a motion.
11:43:37 Anyone here to speak on 69, on the continuance portion of it
11:43:42 I see no one.
11:43:43 This will be continued to December 13th at 5:01 p.m. for
11:43:49 the second hearing being January at 9 a.m. in the morning.
11:44:02 January 10 at 9:30 a.m.
11:44:06 Motion and second.
11:44:07 >>THE CLERK: And that would be continued until January
11:44:10 >> January 10th at 9:30.
11:44:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
11:44:19 Motion passes unanimously. Workshops.
11:44:27 That's been continued till 1:30 today.
11:44:29 I don't want to scare anybody.
11:44:31 We have a few minutes left.
11:44:33 I think we can do number 71, Westshore Alliance.
11:44:52 >>RON ROTELLA: Westshore Alliance.
11:44:53 I am going to ask for a continuance.
11:44:55 I think council has had a busy morning.
11:45:00 Our presentation was about ten minutes.
11:45:02 I don't think that's appropriate today.
11:45:05 The comment I will make to you, though, is that our master
11:45:10 plan, as you know the city is paying one third, county is
11:45:13 paying one third, Westshore Alliance is paying one third.
11:45:16 I would not want to show up at City Council with a final
11:45:21 plan without having council members be involved, understand
11:45:27 what's going on and take the concerns into consideration.
11:45:32 So I would like to request that we continue a presentation
11:45:35 on the master plan.
11:45:37 In the meantime, council members can contact me individually
11:45:42 if they have any input they would like to give as far as the
11:45:45 master plan.
11:45:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you for the request.
11:45:48 What is the best date that we have on a lighter calendar
11:45:51 than today to put these good people here on the --
11:45:57 >> I have February 7th.
11:45:58 >> We are about halfway done.
11:46:05 What we are going to do is run in after the first of the
11:46:09 year, take it out to the property owners for the residential
11:46:13 And we will be getting input from them.
11:46:17 >> December 20th?
11:46:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, a calendar that would suffice and
11:46:25 meet your request so that you can have due time.
11:46:31 Is February 7th a good date for you, sir?
11:46:33 >> Sure that works.
11:46:34 >> Move to continue to February 7th at 10 a.m.
11:46:37 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
11:46:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Cohen for February
11:46:42 7th at 10 a.m.
11:46:44 Seconded by Mr. Suarez.
11:46:46 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
11:46:50 Opposed nay.
11:46:51 And thank you very much.
11:46:52 And you mean so much to this community, what you all do
11:46:56 >>RON ROTELLA: Thank you.
11:46:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
11:46:59 Item 72 is a resolution based on the adoption of number 55.
11:47:07 Staff reports.
11:47:07 Mr. Suarez?
11:47:09 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I move the resolution.
11:47:11 >> Second.
11:47:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mr. Suarez.
11:47:13 I have a second by Mr. Cohen on 72.
11:47:17 All in favor of that motion for the resolution please
11:47:20 signify by saying aye.
11:47:21 Opposed nay.
11:47:22 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:47:24 Item 73, legal department for a report regarding the steward
11:47:35 >>JIM SHIMBERG: City attorney.
11:47:35 You had asked us to take a look at the lease agreement with
11:47:39 the steward's foundation for 3.76, anchors of real property
11:47:46 in the Julian lane Riverfront Park.
11:47:49 We looked at that agreement.
11:47:50 It was originally entered into in 2003 and was amended in
11:47:55 2004 and 2007.
11:47:58 As most of you know, the steward foundation is a youth
11:48:02 rowing operation in that facility and they have arrangements
11:48:04 with a number of local high schools as well as provide
11:48:07 summer programs and other things.
11:48:09 But the short answer is, yes, technically they are in
11:48:12 default of the lease agreement with the city, and the things
11:48:20 they are required to do and other things.
11:48:22 The mayor and myself had a meeting with the steward's
11:48:25 foundation a couple of weeks ago.
11:48:30 They are working hard on their mission, but they have not
11:48:33 complied with the terms of the lease.
11:48:35 But at this point because we are just getting ready, as you
11:48:37 know, to undertake a community effort to replan that park in
11:48:42 connection with larger property, my understanding, the
11:48:46 administration's position at this time is to just leave them
11:48:49 in place, let them continue to do their youth rowing
11:48:52 operation, while we look at the larger issue, which is the
11:48:55 future use and redevelopment of that park, which unlike you
11:49:01 heard earlier today is going to be a community-wide effort
11:49:03 and will seek the input of a lot of people and nothing has
11:49:07 been decided yet.
11:49:08 >>HARRY COHEN: Mr. Shimberg, it was Mr. Reddick's motion.
11:49:12 I wonder if you could repeat what you said at the beginning
11:49:15 so Mr. Reddick can --
11:49:17 >>JIM SHIMBERG: Yes, to go back, you had asked us to take a
11:49:20 look, the steward foundation for a little over three acres
11:49:26 of Riverfront Park, and that lease agreement was approved by
11:49:29 council originally back in 2003, amended in 2004 and 2007.
11:49:35 I think you met with representatives from the foundation,
11:49:38 and they operate a youth rowing program on that property.
11:49:42 They have a building or a little temporary structure where
11:49:45 they store the rowing, the crew boats, and from different
11:49:51 high schools, and they run a lot of kids, high school kids
11:49:56 and on the community members go through that program really
11:49:58 every day.
11:49:59 But they are technically in default under the lease.
11:50:02 And I described to you earlier this week, and because of the
11:50:08 efforts that we are undertaking to replan and reprogram and
11:50:14 rework that park, and that effort is just at the very
11:50:18 beginning stages, has not got ten input of the public and
11:50:23 all the other stakeholders, and no decisions have been made
11:50:26 as to exactly how that park is going to be reprogrammed or
11:50:29 redeveloped, you know, the mayor's position was leave it in
11:50:33 place right now, because doing anything else would disrupt a
11:50:35 large number of people who use that facility he have day,
11:50:39 and then they are in default.
11:50:42 We have a provision in our lease that does not penalize us
11:50:46 in any way from -- we are not going to have waived our
11:50:55 rights for not having -- we have the ability to terminate
11:50:59 that lease and reclaim that property.
11:51:02 We just do not choose to do that at this time because of the
11:51:04 program that they are operating and because of the upcoming
11:51:08 process to, you know, reprogram, redevelop that park.
11:51:11 >>FRANK REDDICK: I had an opportunity to meet with
11:51:28 representatives of the steward foundation, and based on my
11:51:30 conversation, they have no means at all for their
11:51:36 arrangements because they don't have the financial means to
11:51:38 do it.
11:51:38 And they expressed that to me.
11:51:40 But let me say this, because when you state that you are
11:51:49 aware that there is a violation, they have defaulted with
11:51:55 the contract, now, I understand the mayor's position -- and
11:52:00 I think it's more political than anything else because the
11:52:04 political ramification is enforce the contract.
11:52:07 But let me ask you a question, because you are the city
11:52:27 And my question to you, the mayor's position is political.
11:52:34 And they are not going to stand here being political, but
11:52:40 you being the legal enforcer of the city, and you have known
11:52:46 they admitted that this organization has violated their
11:52:48 contract, voided their contract, are you saying to me that
11:53:03 an agency can violate their contract, and you the enforcer
11:53:08 of the city, don't you agree that you have a legal and
11:53:12 ethical violation to enforce the contract as the city
11:53:20 attorney versus what the mayor is saying?
11:53:22 Because I know what the mayor said is political.
11:53:24 And I know the consequences for the mayor if he goes enforce
11:53:29 the contract, there could be political ramifications.
11:53:33 >> Sure.
11:53:35 >>FRANK REDDICK: But I'm just talking about from the legal
11:53:41 As you, the legal representative for the entire city, and it
11:53:45 seems to me that you have a legal and ethical obligation to
11:53:52 enforce a contract knowing that it's in default, knowing
11:54:02 that you have openly admitted that it is in default, and
11:54:05 even the representatives stated, so you just want to raise
11:54:14 that question.
11:54:15 >> Sure.
11:54:16 And let me respond to that.
11:54:18 I believe my position as the city attorney for the city is
11:54:21 to advise my client on their legal rights.
11:54:26 And in this case, because we have a party that has as you
11:54:30 said admitted they don't have the financial ability to be
11:54:33 able to fulfill parts of that lease, normally, my
11:54:36 recommendation would be that if the city wants to keep that
11:54:40 party in place on that site doing some things that some
11:54:45 people think are good, then we should amend the lease.
11:54:47 But the only reason I am not recommending you do that at
11:54:50 this time because we are looking at a larger effort for this
11:54:55 And we have a right, I acknowledge, if council tells me to
11:54:59 enforce our rights under that lease and terminate that
11:55:02 lease, we can have the legal right to do that.
11:55:04 It's in my legal opinion that we are not waiving our rights
11:55:08 by allowing them to don't to operate and doing the things
11:55:11 they are doing on that property.
11:55:12 Unfortunately, Mr. Reddick, there's a lost contracts around
11:55:15 the city, if ask us to come back and report back on a number
11:55:19 of contracts around the city, I might be able to come back
11:55:22 and tell you a lot of them and a lot of not-for-profit
11:55:25 organizations that have very good intentions at the time
11:55:29 that they came to the city and promised they were going to
11:55:31 do certain things, we might be able to find there's
11:55:34 violations in a lot of those contracts and some of them
11:55:36 might be ones that are close to your district or other
11:55:39 people's districts.
11:55:40 And there's a difference between having the legal right to
11:55:43 terminates an agreement and moving forward and doing that
11:55:46 without my client's permission.
11:55:49 And the mayor's position is let them stay while we figure
11:55:52 out as a community and as a council what we want to do with
11:55:56 that park.
11:55:57 I agree with you, we have the right to terminate if you all
11:56:01 choose to do that at this time.
11:56:03 >> Let me have one follow-up, Mr. Chairman, and even if the
11:56:12 mayor, in your opinion, decides not to enforce this contract
11:56:15 or terminate this contract, because you can go back and
11:56:26 terminate if need be, what would happen if this agency,
11:56:30 nonprofit, knowing this contract -- knowing that they are in
11:56:35 default today, and one month from now they go out there and
11:56:41 build that raft or that boat house, whatever they are
11:56:44 supposed to build, and couldn't they come back to the city
11:56:50 and say we have met our obligation, you have allowed us when
11:56:56 we were in default, now we have gone and said, okay, we are
11:56:59 going to go build this boat house, and then the city cannot
11:57:04 go and void the contract at that time because they have done
11:57:06 what they said they were going to do.
11:57:10 >>JIM SHIMBERG: Well, that's a very good point.
11:57:12 I would look at if somebody falls behind on their mortgage,
11:57:16 and maybe their lender don't immediately start foreclosure,
11:57:19 they are given them a chance, and then they pay it off, you
11:57:23 are right, they would be back in good standing.
11:57:26 But there's other defaults in this lease, and I don't
11:57:28 anticipate that happening.
11:57:30 There is a possibility that could happen.
11:57:32 But some of the uses that have been talked about for this
11:57:34 park could include, you know, rowing, they gave us a list of
11:57:38 all the different colleges that come to town and use that
11:57:41 property during the break, and spend money in our community,
11:57:48 not just the high schools that use it.
11:57:49 So we have to we the benefits versus detriments.
11:57:53 And you are right, if we terminate the lease tomorrow, a
11:57:56 number of colleges that come here would not be able to use
11:57:59 that property and maybe they would go somewhere else.
11:58:02 The high schools with failure to pay, they would have
11:58:07 nowhere to go to do their rowing operation.
11:58:10 So we have to weigh whether it's worth terminating the lease
11:58:13 and what the ramifications are.
11:58:16 If they come forward and tomorrow and said we just received
11:58:19 a multi-million dollar grants and now can do all the things
11:58:22 that we originally projected the city, I think that's not
11:58:25 necessarily a bad thing because that is what the City
11:58:27 Council at the time said they could do.
11:58:29 But I don't think that's going to happen based on our
11:58:32 meeting with them.
11:58:32 I think we are going to have a chance to work through this
11:58:35 process and decide whether rowing and crew is a part of that
11:58:38 future park or not.
11:58:39 >>FRANK REDDICK: I will yield to other council members.
11:58:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez, Mrs. Montelione, Mrs. Mulhern
11:58:46 in, that order.
11:58:47 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mr. Shimberg, let me ask you something more
11:58:51 specific to the legal issue.
11:58:53 What you just cited is a possibility, a real possibility in
11:58:58 terms of a grant and being able to do it.
11:59:01 Do we not send notice to those entities that are not in
11:59:12 compliance saying, listen, you are in noncompliance and you
11:59:14 have a certain number of days in order to come into
11:59:17 compliance, or else we will consider the contract null and
11:59:20 void, correct?
11:59:21 >> I think the answer to your question is sometimes the T
11:59:24 city does.
11:59:25 Sometimes they don't.
11:59:26 There's a lost different contracts.
11:59:27 >> Let me interrupt you -- hang on, let me ask.
11:59:31 You are going into left field and I'm pitching.
11:59:35 So you are going in a different direction.
11:59:36 The reason I asked that is that Mr. Reddick brought up a
11:59:40 real life consideration, which is, if we are understood the
11:59:44 administration by the council or anyone else thinking about,
11:59:47 hey, maybe there are other types of programs we want to have
11:59:50 at Riverfront Park, what things do we use legally in order
11:59:56 to make sure that we have that option, knowing that the
12:00:01 entity is already in violation of the contract?
12:00:03 My sense is that we can send a letter to them saying you are
12:00:07 technically in violation of this contract only those things
12:00:15 that you are currently doing, actively doing under the
12:00:17 contract is still allowable.
12:00:18 But we want a right of refusal on other things that come
12:00:22 Can we do that legally?
12:00:29 >>JIM SHIMBERG: We usually can't amend the document with one
12:00:32 party without the other.
12:00:36 We can propose to them an amendment to the lease.
12:00:37 >> And I apologize for interrupting.
12:00:44 But based on good faith effort, everything we know, Mr.
12:00:47 Reddick reported to us his conversation, and you actual
12:00:49 actually you reported this to me privately on his
12:00:52 conversation with the steward foundation, they do not have
12:00:55 the financial where with you all at this time to fulfill
12:00:57 those other obligations to the contract.
12:01:02 I don't think there would be any legal problem with us
12:01:05 reporting to them that you continue to do what you are
12:01:08 currently doing, but to Do not do anything outside of that
12:01:15 until we come to an agreement as to what those other
12:01:17 programs are.
12:01:18 Can we as a council ask you to send that type of or get into
12:01:22 that type of conversation with the steward foundation in
12:01:25 order to make sure that,a, we are doing what the
12:01:28 administration has already said they want to do, which is
12:01:30 they were holding, you know -- we are trying to figure out
12:01:34 what we are going to do with this place here, and secondly,
12:01:37 it gives us sort of the comfort that, look, steward is
12:01:41 already trying to do part of it, they don't have the
12:01:44 financial wherewithal, let's negotiates with them and say,
12:01:48 look, don't worry about the other aspects of it, we are
12:01:51 going to put this in an agreeable type of format, so that
12:01:56 going forward we can decide what's going to happen next
12:01:59 >> That's an administrative function, not a council
12:02:06 >>MIKE SUAREZ: That's not my question.
12:02:08 Again, it is something we can do legally.
12:02:10 >> We being the city, you are saying?
12:02:13 >>MIKE SUAREZ: We the city.
12:02:14 You are the attorney.
12:02:15 I am asking you a legal question, not a policy question.
12:02:19 >> We can put them on notice.
12:02:20 I don't think that modifies the lease without both parties
12:02:24 >> And here another legal question that goes back to what
12:02:27 you just said.
12:02:29 We are the council, administration and us may have
12:02:31 disagreement as to what we should do going forward.
12:02:36 >>JIM SHIMBERG: Okay.
12:02:37 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I think to alleviate any issues as to what's
12:02:40 going to come forward and considering some of the issues
12:02:42 that Mr. Reddick has brought up in addition to some of the
12:02:45 things that I have heard from the west riverfront homeowners
12:02:49 association which I met with last week, why not do that as
12:02:54 administration and as a council so that we have as much a
12:03:01 leeway as possible so we can hold off the possibility they
12:03:04 may get money in order to fulfill the agreement where then
12:03:06 we have no legal saying other than say please come back to
12:03:11 the table.
12:03:11 >> In our discussion, and all the ULI meetings where they
12:03:20 are reaching out to different members of the community, they
12:03:22 have several meetings, the representatives, is the T steward
12:03:25 foundation, I'm not speaking for them, but they don't want
12:03:28 to be an impediment.
12:03:29 They want to be a part of any redevelopment in the park.
12:03:32 I don't believe that's going to be a problem.
12:03:34 >> I'm not asking you to negotiate here.
12:03:38 I'm asking as part of just a normal way of doing business,
12:03:43 you know.
12:03:44 We know the other party is not doing everything they are
12:03:46 supposed to be doing.
12:03:47 And like you said, there's hundreds of contract of people
12:03:51 probably not meeting every single aspect of the contract.
12:03:53 We go back.
12:03:54 We go visit.
12:03:55 And listen, maybe this isn't working out, you are not
12:03:58 meeting your obligation, we feel as if we have renegotiated
12:04:07 the legal contract.
12:04:09 I want to make sure we are protected, and again not
12:04:12 renegotiating the contract per se but actually have them
12:04:15 come and say, look, we are not going to do anything until we
12:04:18 come back in good faith and renegotiate the contract if we
12:04:21 want to.
12:04:21 >>HARRY COHEN: Motion to extend for ten minutes for the
12:04:25 purpose of finishing this item.
12:04:29 >> Second.
12:04:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second by Mrs. Capin.
12:04:32 All in favor say aye.
12:04:34 Opposed nay.
12:04:35 I have got it in order.
12:04:36 I got Reddick, Suarez, Montelione, Mulhern, and now Capin.
12:04:52 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Can you, Mr. Shimberg, talk to me about
12:04:59 notice of intent to terminate contract?
12:05:02 Because they are under default.
12:05:04 Mr. Reddick brought up a good point saying that we would
12:05:07 prefer that they somehow not come up with the money all of a
12:05:12 sudden and make a good faith effort to fulfill that portion
12:05:16 of the lease agreement describing their building of a --
12:05:20 constructing of a building.
12:05:27 What would preclude us from putting them on notice that you
12:05:31 are in violation of your lease agreement, and we have an
12:05:37 intent to terminate the agreement -- that doesn't mean that
12:05:41 we have to go forward and actually terminate the agreement,
12:05:45 but we are putting them on notice, to acknowledge that you
12:05:48 are in default, and we are putting it in writing, making it
12:05:51 a legal document, not just, you know, a conversation that
12:05:58 met with the steward foundation by a member of council or by
12:06:00 the mayor or by yourself, but we are actually legally
12:06:03 putting them on notice that we are acknowledging of the
12:06:10 >> What would prohibit us from doing that?
12:06:14 We could do that.
12:06:15 >> But isn't that a good practice, you know, as the owner of
12:06:18 a piece of property that has tenants?
12:06:21 Wouldn't you normally go ahead and do that and notify your
12:06:24 tenant that they are in violation of their lease agreement?
12:06:27 >> Again, you have asked me to come back and report on this
12:06:32 particular lease.
12:06:33 Is that a good practice?
12:06:34 Normally, I would say yes, that is, that's a good practice.
12:06:37 I don't know that the city does that in every case, because
12:06:40 there are hundreds of contracts, and they are being
12:06:42 monitored by different departments and different issues.
12:06:44 >> What I'm wondering -- and I think what Mr. Suarez is
12:06:49 getting at -- and correct me if I am wrong, Mr. Suarez --
12:06:51 but I think that the city should be as diligent about the
12:06:58 lease agreements we enter into, or any contract we enter
12:07:01 into to monitor the conditions of those lease agreements,
12:07:05 and make sure that our tenants, just like any other property
12:07:10 owner would do, our tenants are complying with the
12:07:14 conditions of their lease.
12:07:16 So, you know, for us to now theory that we have got
12:07:22 hundreds, maybe thousands of lease agreements --
12:07:26 >> I didn't say hundreds.
12:07:29 I'm not saying they are all in default.
12:07:31 >>LISA MONTELIONE: No, I know you are not saying they are
12:07:35 all in default.
12:07:36 But it's casting the view that there may be agreements out
12:07:45 there where the conditions are not being met.
12:07:51 And I don't think as a best business practice it is for
12:07:59 anyone to not monitor very closely the conditions of a
12:08:05 And I don't think it's a good business practice for us, and
12:08:09 specifically in this case, because there are other planning
12:08:12 efforts going on, and we have the word of the individuals
12:08:18 concerned, or the parties concerned, that he yes, they want
12:08:21 to cooperate.
12:08:22 But if we don't put our tenant on notice that they are in
12:08:27 violation of their agreement, we are not on the best footing
12:08:37 possible should a complication arise later on.
12:08:40 And I was trying to get the lease agreement in front of me.
12:08:43 And I did review it during the hearing we had November
12:08:47 1st, and I have some notes on it, but somehow it has
12:08:50 been misplaced.
12:08:52 But going through each and every one of the contracts, and
12:08:58 the language agreement, there's a provision in there.
12:09:02 >>JIM SHIMBERG: And again talking about this specific
12:09:03 instance, the administration and the mayor met with the
12:09:07 individual organization, and decided they were comfortable
12:09:09 after hearing the legal advice, and understanding the
12:09:14 They were comfortable with the current situation.
12:09:17 Some of the suggestions you are making are good suggestions.
12:09:19 And maybe you want to at a future time schedule somebody.
12:09:22 I'm not shower. I haven't been here long enough.
12:09:25 I'm not sure if it's real estate department or other
12:09:27 departments to come in and talk to you about how they
12:09:29 monitor each of their contracts and how they determine,
12:09:32 because how do they determine when somebody goes into
12:09:36 default and how closely to monitor that?
12:09:38 That might be a broader discussion to understand how that
12:09:42 Because there's people in the city, in each department, I
12:09:45 think, and real estate, real estate is one that monitors
12:09:50 There's other departments.
12:09:51 In this case, if the Parks Department is involved in this.
12:09:57 The legal department operates when the clients come to us
12:10:01 and says, review this or give us our legal options, and then
12:10:04 sometimes we advise them what to do.
12:10:07 We don't make the decisions ourselves without consultation
12:10:10 with our clients, whether it's the department, whether it's
12:10:12 the council's, depending on the circumstances.
12:10:16 What you are saying very sound real estate practices, and
12:10:19 you are absolutely right, normally the situation where
12:10:21 somebody is in default, you put them on notice and give them
12:10:24 a chance to cure the default, fanned not you decide whether
12:10:27 you want to amend the document or terminate the document.
12:10:29 But there's different circumstances for each particular
12:10:33 And that's what I'm trying to say.
12:10:34 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So I might suggest that the legal
12:10:37 department meet with parks or real estate to review their
12:10:45 procedures, to make sure that they are monitoring the
12:10:52 aspects of all of the contracts, and that there are good
12:10:57 updated procedures and policies in place so that we can
12:11:03 monitor the conditions in the future.
12:11:05 And I don't know if it's at the discretion of council to
12:11:11 instruct the legal department to put these tenants on
12:11:21 >>JIM SHIMBERG: I don't believe it is but --
12:11:23 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Because that would be the preference of
12:11:24 everyone sitting here, that this particular tenant in this
12:11:27 case, and any -- going forward like you said to the broader
12:11:32 discussion of the policies of the department, but to make it
12:11:35 a practice, when a tenant is in violation of a lease
12:11:40 agreement that a notice letter goes out.
12:11:43 I used to do that every day when I worked for nation's bank
12:11:47 at the time.
12:11:47 We had a list, back then, manual, you knew what the date
12:11:54 was, and they were supposed to meet a benchmark, and if they
12:11:57 didn't that notice of intent went out.
12:11:59 You have 30 days to comply, 60 days or whatever --
12:12:03 >>JIM SHIMBERG: And a lot of those cases are triggered where
12:12:06 a person is paying rent and it's pretty obvious.
12:12:09 A lot of the agreements the city has especially with not for
12:12:12 profits, a dollar a year, things like that, so they agreed
12:12:15 to a certain things, monitor the number of volunteer hours
12:12:19 they are doing, or in this case build a building which is
12:12:21 why it was amended several times under the Iorio
12:12:24 administration was they hadn't lived up to their
12:12:27 obligations, they came back, amended the agreement, came
12:12:29 back, were given more time, and in this case now issues come
12:12:33 up again, and there's no question that they are doing good
12:12:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I only got three minute left on the
12:12:41 >>JIM SHIMBERG: You can have a hundred people in here
12:12:42 telling you what a great -- if you want to do that, you can
12:12:45 schedule that discussion.
12:12:45 But you are making a good point.
12:12:47 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Mr. Shelby, is there something within
12:12:55 council's purview that would suggest we could direct the
12:13:01 legal department to put this tenant on notice?
12:13:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Well, the short answer is, you can request
12:13:11 rather than direct.
12:13:12 Now let me just cite some germane sections --
12:13:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We don't have to go through the charter.
12:13:18 I mean, that's my opinion.
12:13:20 He's going to tell what you the charter says.
12:13:22 We know what it says.
12:13:23 Yes and no at the same time.
12:13:25 You can ask but you can't say you are going to do.
12:13:27 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay.
12:13:29 Well, then I would like to motion that council request legal
12:13:33 department to --
12:13:37 >>JIM SHIMBERG: Administration you probably should request,
12:13:38 I would think.
12:13:39 Because it's really the administration's directing, in this
12:13:43 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So motion to request the administration
12:13:45 to put this tenant on notice for violation of their lease
12:13:49 >>JIM SHIMBERG: I would think that's the appropriate
12:13:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You represent all of us.
12:13:57 >> Absolutely.
12:13:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think the motion is correct, ask the
12:14:00 administration to ask, so they can direct you to do it.
12:14:06 And you are not the administrator, you are the lawyer.
12:14:08 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And that's the extent of my motion, to
12:14:13 request to put this tenant on notice that they are in
12:14:15 violation of their lease agreement.
12:14:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
12:14:20 I have a motion by Ms. Mulhern, second by Mr. Reddick.
12:14:24 Further discussion?
12:14:26 Mrs. Montelione, I'm sorry.
12:14:27 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
12:14:32 Second by Mr. Reddick.
12:14:34 I said it.
12:14:35 Read the tape.
12:14:36 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I didn't see the second but that's fine.
12:14:40 Thank you.
12:14:41 Take a vote.
12:14:41 >> All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
12:14:45 Opposed nay.
12:14:45 >> Nay.
12:14:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, you know, roll call vote by voice.
12:14:55 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Aye.
12:14:58 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Nay.
12:14:59 >>FRANK REDDICK: Aye.
12:15:02 >>MARY MULHERN: Aye.
12:15:04 >>HARRY COHEN: Nay.
12:15:06 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Aye.
12:15:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Aye.
12:15:08 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Capin and Cohen voting
12:15:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have two minutes left.
12:15:16 Mrs. Mulhern.
12:15:17 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
12:15:19 Mr. Shimberg.
12:15:21 Sorry, we are not done yet.
12:15:22 I just need a brief description.
12:15:25 What is the steward foundation?
12:15:26 Who do they represent?
12:15:30 >>JIM SHIMBERG: The steward foundation -- and again I don't
12:15:32 speak for them -- it's an organization that was set up by
12:15:35 some individuals that were very involving, crew, and came to
12:15:40 the city, I guess ten-plus years ago and I guess they used
12:15:44 to operate out of the city, the University of Tampa boat
12:15:46 house and they decided -- they came to the city and said we
12:15:52 want to continue this rowing operation and we used some of
12:15:55 the city's Riverfront Park.
12:15:57 And there were some wealthy individuals in the community
12:15:59 that were involved.
12:16:00 One of them since passed away.
12:16:02 But the organization -- and again, you could ask them to
12:16:05 come give a presentation.
12:16:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to have a general idea.
12:16:10 So they don't represent the University of Tampa, they don't
12:16:15 represent the college rowing, they don't represent --
12:16:19 >> They have a contract with a lot of high schools to allow
12:16:22 the high schools to store their rowing equipment there, and
12:16:28 their contract -- for example, plant has their own facility,
12:16:32 but other high schools like Hillsborough high school --
12:16:36 >>MARY MULHERN: That was my next question.
12:16:38 Because I used to go there for plant rowing and I know they
12:16:41 don't use it anymore.
12:16:45 >>JIM SHIMBERG: Plant has their own.
12:16:46 >>MARY MULHERN: So there are still a lot of high schools
12:16:47 that use it?
12:16:49 >>JIM SHIMBERG: Absolutely.
12:16:50 And there are a lot of colleges that when they come down and
12:16:52 train there for a week or so.
12:16:54 So, yes.
12:16:55 But according to them, they are paying coaches, make a
12:17:01 little money, but don't have the dollars to build these
12:17:03 buildings that are required under the lease.
12:17:05 >> And so are they assuming like responsibility for
12:17:09 >> Absolutely.
12:17:11 The portion of the property.
12:17:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm already passed the time allotted
12:17:17 If you want another five minutes --
12:17:21 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Five minutes.
12:17:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mrs. Monday Montelione,
12:17:26 seconded by Mr. Suarez for another five minutes.
12:17:28 The ayes have it unanimously.
12:17:30 Mrs. Capin.
12:17:32 >>YVONNE CAPIN: The steward school rowers, along with them,
12:17:43 when you are in default, you are in default.
12:17:47 Please clarify that.
12:17:50 Is it in default?
12:17:51 Or are you implicitly saying they are not in default if you
12:17:59 don't notify them?
12:18:00 >> They are in default, whether we notify them or not, not
12:18:04 waiving any rights by not essentially terminating a lease
12:18:07 right now.
12:18:08 We can come back to them at a point in the future.
12:18:11 The reason that the administration decided not to do that is
12:18:14 because we are trying to go through a planning process where
12:18:17 everybody can if you go out the future use of that park, and
12:18:22 rowing and steward foundation may or may not be part of
12:18:25 They fully understand that.
12:18:26 They clearly understand that.
12:18:29 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I just wanted to make clear, when you are in
12:18:31 default you are in default.
12:18:33 By not notifying, they are assuming -- they can assume that
12:18:39 it's not legal.
12:18:39 They don't -- they are in default, period.
12:18:44 >>JIM SHIMBERG: There might be cases where it's not clear
12:18:46 but in this case they didn't build the building they are
12:18:49 required to build sorry it's kind of clear that they are in
12:18:55 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Where else in the City of Tampa do we have
12:18:56 to store boats for the high schools?
12:19:03 That is in existence right now.
12:19:07 >>JIM SHIMBERG: Like Plant High School has a separate
12:19:10 Tampa Catholic I think has it on their property.
12:19:12 But I am not aware of any other places within the city.
12:19:15 University of Tampa has some but -- I'm not aware of any
12:19:18 other places in the city where community organizations can
12:19:21 come, participate at a youth rowing program other than this
12:19:28 >>YVONNE CAPIN: And this is -- this is where it came in when
12:19:30 it was brought up that, you know, to allow them to do what
12:19:34 they are doing, which is very beneficial to us in the city,
12:19:39 and our high schools, when these scholarships for rowing --
12:19:44 as a matter of fact, the scholarship very much by Tampa
12:19:52 times staff members daughter just received a rowing
12:19:55 scholarship from -- to row down the Hillsborough River, so a
12:20:01 racetrack for rowing.
12:20:03 Boston, Philadelphia.
12:20:04 The amount of dollars that come in through rowing, and the
12:20:07 scholarships that are available, all the high schools in
12:20:11 Hillsborough County should be offering rowing teams.
12:20:14 It isn't the case.
12:20:15 But it is -- we live on a river.
12:20:18 We have a river that runs through the middle of our city.
12:20:22 So I can understand the mayor's or the administration's
12:20:28 viewpoint on benefiting these high schools by allowing the
12:20:34 little bit that they are doing.
12:20:37 They are the only ones that are doing it outside of the ones
12:20:39 that did K have their own rowing or storage houses.
12:20:45 >> High schools that don't have their own team, the steward
12:20:48 foundation in the past has formed a team for those students
12:20:51 to enable rowers in the high school and put together a team
12:20:54 that competed in the different regattas.
12:20:57 >> So in my mind, it puts them on notice that it's redundant
12:21:01 because they are in default, period.
12:21:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me just say this.
12:21:08 This is the last minute.
12:21:09 We have already used the five minutes.
12:21:11 And it's not about asking somebody to leave.
12:21:13 It's about amending the lease.
12:21:16 So you can't do what you can't do it to amend a lease to do
12:21:19 what you can do, to ask both sides to bring it back and work
12:21:24 it out.
12:21:24 That's what we are asking.
12:21:26 >>JIM SHIMBERG: Right.
12:21:27 And the reason we don't want to do it yet, we want to see
12:21:30 what the plans for the park are.
12:21:32 We don't want --
12:21:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And trying to find out what, because I
12:21:36 don't think anyone knows, not administration, not us, not
12:21:38 the public, not the people who live around the great park,
12:21:41 to find out exactly what the plans are going to be for that
12:21:43 park, where they fit in or don't fit in.
12:21:46 >> And Mr. McDonaugh --
12:21:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand.
12:21:51 >>JIM SHIMBERG: Absolutely include the community.
12:21:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have a motion to take a vote on that
12:21:55 motion to --
12:22:00 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Yes.
12:22:01 I would just like to make a statement.
12:22:03 No one here, I would say, including Mr. Reddick, is saying
12:22:07 that rowing is not something we want to get rid of in the
12:22:12 It's what makes us special.
12:22:15 It's been a tradition here for a very long time.
12:22:18 I even spoke in favor of having, you know, the graffiti that
12:22:23 was part of the bridge as something that makes our city
12:22:27 I used to watch the rowers from the office all the time, and
12:22:32 thought what a beautiful, wonderful thing it is.
12:22:34 No one is saying we don't want rowing in the city.
12:22:37 My only point is that I would like for the city
12:22:41 administration, the department, to operate with the same
12:22:45 diligence that a private business would do, and to maintain
12:22:51 some sort of system that triggers notifications of tenants
12:22:55 when they are outside the terms of their agreement and in
12:23:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
12:23:00 It's now 12:122.
12:23:02 We are coming back at 1:30.
12:23:04 And we are going to take five minutes when we come back to
12:23:06 do the readings.
12:23:09 If not it's never going to happen.
12:23:11 So we will be back at -- no, 1:30.
12:23:15 I want you to eat a little bit, not too much.
12:23:17 I want you to be on your toes when we come back.
12:23:20 So we stand in recess till 1:30.
12:23:26 (Council in recess.)
12:43:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: City Council is called back in session.
01:43:47 Roll call.
01:43:47 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
01:43:50 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Present.
01:43:51 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
01:43:52 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
01:43:53 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
01:43:54 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Here.
01:43:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
01:43:57 I want to let Mr. Reddick have the floor.
01:44:01 And ask the legal department if they are back at
01:44:04 approximately 1:30.
01:44:05 Mr. Reddick.
01:44:05 >> An ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida making
01:44:10 revision total City of Tampa code of ordinances chapter 14,
01:44:15 revamping section 142, the code of ordinances or part of
01:44:21 ordinances in conflict therewith, providing for
01:44:28 severability, providing an effective date.
01:44:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a second by Mr. Suarez.
01:44:31 All in favor of that motion, please indicate by saying aye.
01:44:34 Opposed nay.
01:44:36 Motion passes unanimously.
01:44:37 >> And the second reading of the ordinance will be held
01:44:40 December 20th at 9:30 a.m.
01:44:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Back to where we were, I believe we were
01:44:52 at 75.
01:44:53 Mr. Shimberg.
01:44:57 >>JIM SHIMBERG: Sal Territo will handle this.
01:44:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Territo?
01:45:00 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
01:45:02 You asked me to bring back an ordinance to you addressing
01:45:05 the issue that came up because of a Constitutional
01:45:10 amendments passed the last election we had, and the
01:45:15 legislature, when they went to amend the legislation that
01:45:20 would have brought this into effect -- I don't know why we
01:45:24 are getting these squeals -- took some wording out -- I'll
01:45:31 use the second MIC -- and that left it in the statute.
01:45:36 We have something in the ordinance that allows them for
01:45:40 homestead exemption.
01:45:42 So up to $25,000 homestead exemption.
01:45:49 And looked like it may only be a 50,000 or nothing.
01:45:52 Rather than leaving that up in the air, we came back with an
01:45:55 ordinance that will change our language to grant a $50,000
01:45:58 homestead exemption for seniors who meet certain criteria.
01:46:02 That criteria being 65 years of age, and having income at
01:46:05 the time this passed back in 2001 of $20,000, the income is
01:46:11 now 27,300, because of the inflation factor every year.
01:46:17 The second part of the ordinance would Britt to effect what
01:46:19 they are calling the super exemption.
01:46:21 If you are a senior citizen 65 years of age or older who
01:46:24 falls in that same financial category of 27300 dollars a
01:46:28 year or less, you can get up to a $250,000 homestead
01:46:33 So if you are living in a house that's appreciated in value
01:46:36 up to the amount of $250,000, you can get that full
01:46:41 As far as the numbers are concerned, we have some here --
01:46:44 somebody here from the budget office that can give you an
01:46:46 impact of what that's going to be if you were to pass this.
01:46:49 If you do nothing, there's a possibility that the $25,000
01:46:53 homestead exemption would go away, and that's where the
01:46:56 ambiguity comes in because we don't know the answer to that.
01:46:59 Some people are taking the position they are not going to
01:47:01 enforce it.
01:47:02 Other people saying, it's an all or nothing proposition.
01:47:05 So rather than get us in the bind we brought this back to
01:47:09 you as a proposal.
01:47:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
01:47:10 >> What's the cost to the city?
01:47:20 I imagine that's what the council wants to hear.
01:47:21 >> Dennis O'Hara.
01:47:41 What is the question?
01:47:42 >> How many are going to be affected by that?
01:47:45 >> It probably will impact the city to the tune of 80 to
01:47:48 $100,000, no more than that, from a fiscal year perspective.
01:47:52 If debate exemption, the super exemption may be 25 to 30,000
01:47:59 so we anticipate no more than 100,000 N.terms of the number
01:48:02 of people affected in the fiscal year 12 --
01:48:07 >> Mr. Suarez?
01:48:08 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I just want to ask one thing.
01:48:11 Is that first number by virtue of the current language that
01:48:15 we have?
01:48:16 >> Yes.
01:48:18 >>MIKE SUAREZ: So the additional amount is about 50,000
01:48:21 maybe at the most?
01:48:23 >> If you want to expand the 25,000.
01:48:27 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, Dennis.
01:48:29 >> You're welcome.
01:48:30 And in the 267 parcels receive the full benefit and about
01:48:36 that same number, about 300 received a partial benefit.
01:48:39 So all tolled, about 600 total parcels.
01:48:44 For the super senior exemption if we were to apply that, a
01:48:47 little less than 200 parcels would receive that exemption.
01:48:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Where is the ordinance at?
01:48:58 Okay, Mr. Suarez?
01:49:01 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I'll take it.
01:49:08 I present an ordinance on first reading consideration, an
01:49:12 ordinance of the City of Tampa amending sections 24-123, and
01:49:16 24-124 of the City of Tampa code of ordinances, providing
01:49:20 for an additional homestead exemption for eligible senior
01:49:23 citizens by increasing the exemption from $25,000 to
01:49:27 $50,000, by changing the eligibility for the additional
01:49:30 exemption retroactive to January 1st, 2012, to be
01:49:34 effective for the year commencing on January 1st, 2013,
01:49:37 providing that $20,000 household income eligibility criteria
01:49:44 that began on January 1st, 2001, be adjusted by a
01:49:48 percentage change in the average cost of living index in the
01:49:51 period January 1 through December 31st of the previous
01:49:55 year, adding a new section, 24-125, granting an additional
01:50:00 homestead exemption of up to $250,000 for eligible senior
01:50:04 citizens who meet the income standards and who have
01:50:07 maintained a homestead exemption for 25 years in the home to
01:50:11 which the exemption is being sought, providing for this
01:50:13 ordinance to take effect retroactive to October 1st,
01:50:18 2012, providing an effective date.
01:50:19 >> Second.
01:50:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Suarez, seconded
01:50:23 by Mrs. Mulhern on first reading.
01:50:24 All in favor of the motion indicate by saying aye.
01:50:27 Opposed nay.
01:50:28 The ayes have it unanimously.
01:50:30 Second reading will be --
01:50:32 >>THE CLERK: December 20th at 9:30 a.m.
01:50:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
01:50:38 Before I go to the solid waste, the good people have been
01:50:44 here for a while on 76.
01:50:46 I think we can do that now and go back on solid waste.
01:50:48 >> Allison Singer with the legal department on item number
01:50:58 I believe each of you should have before you a draft
01:51:00 ordinance that represents the legal department's efforts to
01:51:04 meet the requirements of this council's motion regarding
01:51:06 Hope's proposed legislation as well as the memorandum
01:51:12 explaining our efforts to arrive at this draft, and those
01:51:15 steps included meetings with representatives of the Hope
01:51:17 organization as well as the department of the city staff
01:51:22 both separately and jointly, in order to discuss the
01:51:25 proposal and also to try to bridge gaps between the city's
01:51:28 concerns and that proposal where possible.
01:51:32 What we has is a draft ordinance with the criminal history
01:51:37 screening processes, and it largely tracks the city's
01:51:40 current practices that you heard about from our director of
01:51:42 human resources, Kimberley Crum at the workshop in
01:51:47 The major difference is that the initial application for
01:51:51 employment would no longer ask about criminal history.
01:51:54 That would be a deferred step.
01:51:57 It doesn't change actually the way we deal with criminal
01:52:00 history at this point in time.
01:52:01 Indeed, although you asked the question at the outset on our
01:52:05 current application for employment, nothing is actually done
01:52:07 with that information unless and until an applicant is
01:52:10 selected as the finalist for a position, and then the
01:52:13 background check is run.
01:52:14 So again the major difference here would be that the
01:52:16 question would be removed from the initial application for
01:52:19 However, how we use that information
01:52:26 Would remain largely the same.
01:52:28 >> I think we heard about eight or nine or ten speakers
01:52:31 earlier this morning speak on that.
01:52:33 And this is a first reading.
01:52:35 Am I correct?
01:52:37 >> It is a draft ordinance under staff reports.
01:52:39 So my understanding would be that council could choose to
01:52:41 make it the first reading or could choose to Britt through
01:52:45 first reading at another time.
01:52:46 >> What's the pleasure of the council?
01:52:49 Mr. Reddick?
01:52:51 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
01:52:54 Ms. Singer, let me ask you a couple questions.
01:53:00 Primarily from some comments I heard this morning.
01:53:03 One of them was mentioned about eliminating the credit
01:53:09 checks inclusion.
01:53:11 Would you explain why that was not included?
01:53:15 >> Sure.
01:53:16 The analysis with regard to credit checks is similar in some
01:53:19 way to criminal history screening processes and some are
01:53:22 legal concerns that we have about that.
01:53:23 First and foremost, credit checks like criminal history
01:53:30 under federal law, you could see lawsuits on the basis of
01:53:33 what we call disparate impact.
01:53:36 What's really significantly different is that there is a
01:53:39 major piece of federal legislation, credit reporting access
01:53:43 provides some significant additional protections for
01:53:46 applicants, if they are denied employment on the basis of
01:53:49 their credit history.
01:53:50 Specifically what happens is if an employer takes adverse
01:53:53 action on the basis of a credit history, they are required
01:53:57 to inform the applicants of that.
01:53:58 They are also required to provide a copy of the credit
01:54:02 history and what they used to make the decision regarding
01:54:05 the adverse action, and then the applicant is also given a
01:54:08 60-day period to dispute any inaccuracies that they would
01:54:12 find in that report.
01:54:13 So there are some pretty significant protections for
01:54:15 applicants already under federal law with regards to credit
01:54:19 And in addition, in order to get the credit check at all an
01:54:23 applicant kind of like criminal history has to authorize the
01:54:26 perspective employer to get that history, and the employer
01:54:29 has to certify to the consumer reporting agency who is
01:54:32 performing that credit check that they are in compliance
01:54:34 with the fair credit reporting act requirements.
01:54:38 So there are some pretty significant protections in that
01:54:40 regard for applicants.
01:54:41 And those protections don't exist specifically under federal
01:54:45 law for criminal history practices.
01:54:48 >>FRANK REDDICK: Let me ask you one other question.
01:54:50 And that is the draft proposal in the ordinance.
01:54:56 I know understood section 12-130, implementation, item B,
01:55:07 that you state that unless other, this ordinance would be
01:55:13 repealed two years from the respective date.
01:55:16 Would you explain why that is included?
01:55:18 >> Sure.
01:55:20 It's really included as an attempt for whether this council
01:55:23 or a differently comprised council to be able to take a look
01:55:27 to make sure this is doing what you want it to be doing,
01:55:31 It's sort of, let's say, sometimes what we call a tickler or
01:55:37 way for you to look back and say, is this what we really
01:55:40 want to happen?
01:55:41 And I think one of the considerations for you as a policy
01:55:43 matter is whether or not you want to do this in the form of
01:55:46 an ordinance or in some other way.
01:55:48 So this is kind of a check on that, similar to what you did
01:55:56 earlier in the day.
01:55:58 One thing I did want to mention about the checks, Kimberley
01:56:02 Crum mentioned it in the workshop but the City of Tampa does
01:56:06 not routinely perform credit checks.
01:56:07 We only perform credit checks where they are related to the
01:56:10 job being sought.
01:56:11 That's another important consideration that would help you
01:56:13 understand that elimination.
01:56:14 >> So the final question, are you recommending that this be
01:56:22 done as an ordinance?
01:56:24 Or are you recommending that it's a policy procedure?
01:56:28 >> It's a fair question.
01:56:29 I think as I mentioned in the memorandum, my discussions
01:56:32 with city staff would indicate that they do not believe that
01:56:35 it is necessary as an ordinance, and that is because we are
01:56:39 already in compliance with both federal and state laws on
01:56:42 this issue, and because we generally do everything that's
01:56:46 contemplated in this ordinance right now, with the
01:56:48 exception, as I pointed out, of when we ask the question.
01:56:51 You certainly could, if you so chose, do a resolution
01:56:56 encouraging that type of policy change if you wanted to, but
01:57:02 kind of to answer the initial question, the ordinance was
01:57:04 presented before council specifically asked us to present
01:57:08 the draft ordinance as a possibility.
01:57:09 >> Ms. Mulhern.
01:57:12 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
01:57:15 Yes, I just had a follow-up question to Councilman Reddick.
01:57:20 Considering that there are those protections for credit
01:57:24 checks, why couldn't we treat that the same as you are
01:57:29 proposing that we do with the criminal history?
01:57:33 >> I.
01:57:34 >> Is there a reason we couldn't do that?
01:57:39 >> I'm not sure there is a reason you couldn't do that.
01:57:42 There's nothing that comes to mind immediately.
01:57:44 The federal fair credit reporting act does note that most of
01:57:48 the notices happen on a separate piece of documentation from
01:57:51 documentation anyway.
01:57:53 I'm not sure there's a reason that you couldn't do that.
01:57:55 In terms of combining it into this sort of legislation,
01:58:03 think carefully through whether to skip into subjects and
01:58:09 about it should be a separate ordinance.
01:58:12 I didn't reach a conclusion on that since we made a decision
01:58:14 to not use it at this point.
01:58:16 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like you to look into that.
01:58:18 And just because that was brought up I think by more than
01:58:22 one person and also because it seems like it would be
01:58:25 supported, there wouldn't be a reason for us not to remove
01:58:31 And I think it has the same effect if you were to fill out
01:58:35 an application at your first meeting or your first
01:58:41 application for a job, and that is on there, it could be
01:58:47 discouraging -- and sometimes I think cot even discourage
01:58:49 people from applying for a job.
01:58:51 So I think if we can do it legally, you know, maybe that
01:58:57 would satisfy the people who come here and spent all this
01:59:02 time trying to encourage us to make it easier for people to
01:59:06 get a job in this bad economy.
01:59:10 And then the other question, I think when you briefed me you
01:59:15 explained this but I couldn't remember why, and I think we
01:59:18 need to hear, the public needs to hear, too, why we didn't
01:59:23 include contractors.
01:59:26 >> Sure.
01:59:28 There are several potential issues with including
01:59:31 contractors, and I would say one of the major ones is
01:59:36 Effectively, if you applied that to contractors, what that
01:59:39 ends up doing is at minimum creating another layer of
01:59:43 administrations for compliance with contracts, and certainly
01:59:47 that would be an additional burden on our city department to
01:59:52 figure those sorts of things out.
01:59:54 I think probably as a practical matter the way you might do
01:59:57 that is another layer of paperwork, with the certificates of
02:00:04 efforts in that regard, and we have that type of system in
02:00:06 place with regard to other contract compliance requirements.
02:00:10 But it definitely would take an additional level of review
02:00:14 and administration there.
02:00:16 In addition to those issues, I think you increase possible
02:00:22 exposure to lawsuits.
02:00:24 While I think it's ultimately legally defensible and
02:00:27 wouldn't have put anything in here that wouldn't be, you
02:00:30 still have the possibility of additional lawsuits that we
02:00:32 would have to defend, even if we ultimately prevailed in
02:00:36 those lawsuits.
02:00:37 That's particularly relevant where criminal history is
02:00:39 concerned because the sorts of case thaws often would be
02:00:42 looking at are negligent hiring types of cases so where
02:00:47 someone who H to follow our ordinance with regard to their
02:00:50 own hiring practices I can see bringing the city into a
02:00:53 lawsuit that was filed against them by someone that was hurt
02:00:56 in their place of employment by an employee who had a
02:00:59 criminal record.
02:01:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
02:01:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen and Mrs. Montelione.
02:01:05 >>HARRY COHEN: I want to return to the issue of the credit
02:01:10 check for a moment.
02:01:11 I think you answered the question about what the city's
02:01:13 policy is, that they don't run a credit check unless the
02:01:17 person is in a situation that's actually financially
02:01:21 And I think that's a wise policy.
02:01:24 But, you know, reflecting on our discussion about the
02:01:27 cameras this morning, policy can be changed.
02:01:29 And the fact is, in my view, to run a caret credit check on
02:01:35 an applicant who was not applying for a financially
02:01:38 sensitive position, I think it something worth writing an
02:01:42 ordinance to prevent the city from doing.
02:01:44 I think it doesn't have to be part of this ordinance.
02:01:46 But I think it would be appropriate to make a separate
02:01:49 ordinance to codify that, and to actually turn that into a
02:01:55 Because the fact of the matter is, a person who has a
02:01:59 criminal history has at least had some sort of due process
02:02:02 that got them to that point.
02:02:04 A credit history is something that the person may not ever
02:02:09 have had a chance to respond to.
02:02:11 And while the protections that you pointed out are good
02:02:16 ones, the person would have to invoke after the fact, after
02:02:20 they had been denied the position, after they had had
02:02:24 already suffered a harm.
02:02:26 So I think that I would like to make a motion that we come
02:02:30 back with a separate ordinance, just codifying what you say
02:02:35 is the city's current policy now and putting that in place
02:02:39 for time to come.
02:02:40 >> Not to interrupt, I did want to clarify one thing.
02:02:45 It's my understanding there would be both a predetermination
02:02:48 notice and an after-the-fact determination notice regarding
02:02:51 any adverse actions taken with regard to credit history, so
02:02:55 you are aware of that.
02:02:56 And then I guess required to codifying policies, much as was
02:03:01 the consideration when talking about criminal history
02:03:04 practices, I would just question that we need to be aware of
02:03:11 separation of power issues in terms of any kind of
02:03:13 encroachment on to administrative issues there.
02:03:16 So I would want to be careful about something that was
02:03:18 limited to actually codifying a policy per se and would be
02:03:22 more inclined that anything that has to do with eliminating
02:03:29 discrimination on that basis, if that makes sense.
02:03:32 That's more closely aligned to what we are doing with
02:03:35 criminal history, screening practices, and even though some
02:03:38 are in play in that ordinance the idea is to prevent and --
02:03:43 I don't think we have any evidence that we need to eliminate
02:03:46 any discrimination with the city's policy but to prevent and
02:03:49 indeed prohibit discrimination on the base solely limited to
02:03:52 criminal history.
02:03:53 >>HARRY COHEN: That said I think I would still like to make
02:03:59 a motion that we come back with a staff report or ordinance,
02:04:06 but I think we can come back with a draft ordinance that
02:04:09 maybe could you work with us on to address this specific
02:04:11 issue of making it the city's rule codified in law that we
02:04:21 are only going to run credit checks for employees who are
02:04:24 going to have financially sensitive positions.
02:04:28 >> If we could have the HR department come back with what we
02:04:40 currently pull --
02:04:42 >>HARRY COHEN: Absolutely.
02:04:44 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And make that part of the ordinance.
02:04:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, I have about six things going on
02:04:52 We are making ordinances that we don't know even what the
02:04:55 department does.
02:04:56 >> Allison singer: Correct.
02:04:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What they do or don't do.
02:05:01 That's just my feeling.
02:05:02 I don't know.
02:05:02 >>HARRY COHEN: That's why I asked if we should come back
02:05:06 with a staff report or a draft ordinance, because obviously
02:05:08 we want to flesh this out some.
02:05:10 But I just don't want this issue to die today when we
02:05:14 finally put to bed the first part of our ordinance.
02:05:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have Mrs. Montelione and Mrs. Mulhern.
02:05:20 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to add to this.
02:05:23 I'm not going to take long.
02:05:24 I just wanted to question whether we should have our own
02:05:27 discussion about the ordinance that we have got, draft
02:05:30 ordinance we have got here, and then figure out --
02:05:35 >> I can do that.
02:05:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Montelione.
02:05:37 Good idea.
02:05:41 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Good idea.
02:05:42 And I also suggest that the ordinance -- the motion as you
02:05:45 made it and in our agenda sounding the way you make it --
02:05:58 thank you.
02:05:59 Ms. Singer, section 12, 128, letter D, the second sentence
02:06:05 reads: The City of Tampa will consider any additional
02:06:07 information provided in writing by the finalists within one
02:06:12 business of notify of ineligibility.
02:06:15 One of my constituents was someone who spoke here this
02:06:17 morning had pointed out to me that one business day is very
02:06:24 difficult for someone to turn around that information, get
02:06:29 it down here to city, and make sure they meet that deadline.
02:06:33 And suggested that one business day be changed in order to
02:06:39 allow someone ample time to respond.
02:06:45 I know even myself sometimes, it's hard to turn something
02:06:47 around and respond within 24 hours.
02:06:50 So could we change -- or I would like to say -- I don't want
02:06:55 to say could we.
02:06:56 I would like to see that that be changed to seven days
02:06:58 rather than one day.
02:06:59 >> ALLISON SINGER: When you say you would like to see that,
02:07:09 are you interested in a new draft?
02:07:11 Or do you want more discussion on that point?
02:07:16 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I don't think -- unless my colleagues
02:07:19 feel there needs to be more discussion.
02:07:20 But I think simply changing one business day to seven days
02:07:24 of ineligibility --
02:07:26 >> It's a very easy choice -- but a very big change to make
02:07:30 and I don't think that affects legality per se but I
02:07:33 definitely think it affects the city's policies and
02:07:36 And I think you may want to hear from human resources about
02:07:38 how that would impact them.
02:07:40 I have not specifically discussed that with them, but I
02:07:42 think it would significantly change the way they do business
02:07:45 right now, and you may want to hear from Mrs. Crum or her
02:07:50 designee as to that.
02:07:52 Certainly it's council's pleasure but that would be my
02:07:55 thought process on changing that.
02:07:56 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So noted.
02:07:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Reddick.
02:08:00 >>FRANK REDDICK: I want to go back to one last thing, and
02:08:04 that is the sunset provision.
02:08:09 This part puzzles me because I'm looking at two years from
02:08:13 the effective date, and I'm looking at who will be
02:08:19 responsible for reminding the council that this will be
02:08:24 sunsetted in two years?
02:08:26 And is it necessary that you have this included as part of
02:08:31 this draft you got here?
02:08:35 >> It's not legally necessary.
02:08:37 No, it's not something that you must have in there.
02:08:39 And in terms of who would be responsible for reminding you,
02:08:43 I would say that it would be council members themselves.
02:08:58 >>FRANK REDDICK: I prefer that it be removed.
02:09:00 I don't see that happening.
02:09:02 So I would just suggest that that be removed.
02:09:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Capin, Mr. Suarez, do you care to
02:09:23 speak on this matter?
02:09:23 Let me say this.
02:09:24 I heard things this morning, it's a good start.
02:09:27 You know what that means to me?
02:09:28 I'm not happy with it but I'll take it.
02:09:30 I heard things today that you have to go out there and make
02:09:33 all the visits and do business with the city and anyone who
02:09:36 gets a federal grant, state grant, some type of grant,
02:09:40 follow the same orders.
02:09:42 Or make it stronger.
02:09:43 I heard that from another individual.
02:09:46 You know, what I just heard you say, and what the plan is,
02:09:51 there's really no change.
02:09:53 It's the same thing.
02:09:54 So now you have an individual, he or she, that in the
02:09:59 beginning or at the end of a process, and let me tell you, I
02:10:08 hold city employs, every single one of them, to the same
02:10:11 esteem that I hold myself and these council members, to work
02:10:15 for the government is a privilege.
02:10:20 And I'm not sorry to say I can't support it.
02:10:23 Let me tell you why.
02:10:24 Because when you look around, I have individuals who have
02:10:28 never done anything wrong.
02:10:31 And guess what, I overlook them for somebody else who has.
02:10:37 It's time that we grow up and understand -- and I applaud
02:10:40 the people here who are doing a good thing to try to help
02:10:44 and save them.
02:10:45 I understand that.
02:10:47 But it's time to say, you know, the line is drawn, don't
02:10:51 cross it or you can't work here.
02:10:53 It's hard to say that not only in today's economy but at any
02:10:58 I remember my father giving me a dime, and I said this
02:11:00 before, when I was 14 or 15 or maybe even 16.
02:11:04 And I looked at him, and I said, what's this for?
02:11:07 He said, if you do something wrong, call somebody else.
02:11:11 I never forgot that.
02:11:12 So what I'm saying to all of you is, all of you at that age
02:11:16 or younger, don't do something wrong because you can't work
02:11:19 here for a while until you come back.
02:11:21 And I'm not saying you can't get hired because we do hire
02:11:24 them as I understand earlier.
02:11:25 We do have a process in place.
02:11:27 Is it working or not?
02:11:28 I assume it is.
02:11:31 But all these things come up.
02:11:33 And you know what?
02:11:35 It doesn't change.
02:11:37 Now you go through the process.
02:11:39 And at the end they are going to tell you, I'm sorry, you
02:11:41 can't get hired here.
02:11:43 Does this mean that somebody got caught for some act of
02:11:49 embezzlement going to come work for the city in the finance
02:11:53 I hope not.
02:11:54 But what does it mean?
02:11:57 I don't like to do things just to do them.
02:12:00 This is not solving the problem at all.
02:12:02 This is not solving the problem.
02:12:05 That's just my opinion.
02:12:06 And you were directed to write something.
02:12:11 You did a very good job.
02:12:12 But I don't like to go along just to go for a ride.
02:12:18 And that's all we are doing here, going for a ride.
02:12:20 Because at the end of the day it doesn't change anything.
02:12:23 Everything comes out the same way.
02:12:24 The people that want to get the job are going get hired.
02:12:27 The people that don't fall into a certain category based on
02:12:31 their expertise, workplace, and compared to what the city's
02:12:34 needs and necessities are matched up, and they get hired.
02:12:38 But there has got to be a criteria for hiring.
02:12:42 I don't believe in weakening it.
02:12:45 I hold all employees to the same standard.
02:12:47 And the same scrutiny that the media gives us.
02:12:50 And somewhere along the line, if we keep going, we are going
02:12:56 to find something that we are going to be dreadfully
02:12:59 remembered for.
02:13:00 And you want to be no part of that.
02:13:02 That's all I have got to say.
02:13:03 Thank you.
02:13:05 Who wants to read the ordinance?
02:13:07 >>FRANK REDDICK: I'll read it, Mr. Chair.
02:13:12 I don't think --
02:13:14 >>LISA MONTELIONE: A couple of changes.
02:13:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Major changes or minor changes that can
02:13:17 be brought before first and second reading.
02:13:21 >> Could I have a moment please?
02:13:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Side bar 16.
02:13:30 >> Allison singer:
02:13:37 I think even if it's just a short time we need to look at it
02:13:41 in order to make the correct decision there whether it's
02:13:44 major minor.
02:13:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, you are certainly entitled to bring
02:13:46 it back.
02:13:47 If not we put it on the next council agenda.
02:13:49 But we'll address it today.
02:13:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is that all right with council?
02:13:57 We'll do that.
02:13:58 Ms. Mulhern.
02:13:58 >>MARY MULHERN: I think we need to clarify.
02:14:04 >> Thank you.
02:14:04 I have a good idea but if there are specific ones, I would
02:14:08 appreciate that.
02:14:09 Thank you.
02:14:09 >>FRANK REDDICK: Do we have a time frame for you to bring
02:14:12 this back?
02:14:15 >> I can try to do it this afternoon.
02:14:16 >>FRANK REDDICK: You don't have to do it this afternoon.
02:14:19 Mr. Chair, I make a motion that legal address the issues
02:14:24 that were raised here today and presented to council for
02:14:27 first reading consideration.
02:14:28 What we got, Mr. Cohen?
02:14:30 >>HARRY COHEN: Well, if you want to Britt back at the next
02:14:35 meeting, we can do it on the 20th.
02:14:37 At 10 a.m.
02:14:38 >>FRANK REDDICK: Is that good for you?
02:14:40 >> That's certainly good for consideration of the
02:14:44 Are we discuss egg separate ordinance as well?
02:14:47 >>HARRY COHEN: Well, I was going to bring that up next.
02:14:49 >>MARY MULHERN: Do you want to remove the sunset?
02:14:52 >>FRANK REDDICK: Including removing the sunset.
02:14:54 >> What I had was the sunset clause that you raised, Mr.
02:14:58 Reddick, and the issue regarding the number of days to
02:15:03 Were there any others?
02:15:05 >>FRANK REDDICK: I think that's the only ones.
02:15:07 That's it then.
02:15:10 So December 20th under staff reports.
02:15:15 >> Second.
02:15:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Reddick, second by
02:15:19 Mrs. Capin for December 20th, staff reports, what is it,
02:15:24 All in favor of that motion please signify by saying aye,
02:15:26 bringing back this ordinance.
02:15:29 Opposed nay.
02:15:29 Motion passed unanimously.
02:15:31 I appreciate it very much.
02:15:32 Nice job.
02:15:33 Now we go to --
02:15:35 >>HARRY COHEN: Mr. Chair, I would like to make a motion on
02:15:41 the other issue that we talked about, the credit check
02:15:44 issue, to have a discussion during the staff report period
02:15:47 on that, at the regular session of City Council on January
02:15:52 24th at 10 a.m., and the discussion to be regarding the
02:15:58 city's policy regarding credit checks for potential new
02:16:06 hires, and ask the director of human resources and the city
02:16:09 attorney to be here to discuss it, and we'll leave it open
02:16:12 ended so that we can have a discussion, talk about what our
02:16:15 practices are, and then move forward from there.
02:16:17 >>FRANK REDDICK: I will second it as long as you are not
02:16:19 checking my credit report.
02:16:21 [ Laughter ]
02:16:23 I second it.
02:16:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Cohen.
02:16:26 I have a second by Mr. Reddick.
02:16:28 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
02:16:30 Opposed nay.
02:16:31 Motion passed unanimously.
02:16:33 Thank you very much.
02:16:36 Item 77, we have a memorandum from Thom Snelling requesting
02:16:40 a continuance to December 20th, the same time at 10:00
02:16:45 in the morning.
02:16:46 Need a motion to that effect.
02:16:47 >> So moved.
02:16:48 >> Second.
02:16:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Suarez, a second
02:16:51 by Mrs. Montelione.
02:16:52 All in favor of that motion?
02:16:54 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:16:56 Thank you very much.
02:16:58 Item 78.
02:17:02 It's purchase of fuel, gasoline and diesel from a co-op for
02:17:07 6.5 million.
02:17:09 Yes, sir.
02:17:09 >> Good morning Mr. Chairman and council members.
02:17:14 Item 78 is a resolution approving the renewal of an award
02:17:19 between the City of Tampa and J.H. Williams Oil Company for
02:17:23 the purchase of gasoline and diesel fuel in the estimated
02:17:28 amount of 6.5 millio