Tampa City Council
Thursday, October 17, 2013
9:00 a.m. Session
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09:04:01 [Sounding gavel]
09:04:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: City Council is called to order.
09:04:05 The chair yield to Ms. Mary Mulhern.
09:04:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Good morning.
09:04:10 Good morning, everyone.
09:04:13 It's my pleasure and honor to welcome our friend Reverend
09:04:17 Senior Pastor of Hyde Park United Methodist Church, Reverend
09:04:21 James Harnish to give our invocation.
09:04:24 Good morning.
09:04:26 >> Good morning.
09:04:31 O God, the influence with the grace and dream, over the way
09:04:41 we abuse our freedom, the gracious who is at work to resolve
09:04:50 our conflicts, redeem our failures, and fulfill the vision
09:04:55 of liberty and justice for all.
09:04:59 In his name we give our weary hearts to you.
09:05:04 On this morning after, the bonfire of our political and
09:05:08 ideological polarization we give you thanks for cooler heads
09:05:13 who calm the flames of passion and brought this contentious
09:05:19 crisis to an end.
09:05:20 Thank you for a government that can sustain itself through
09:05:28 every crisis.
09:05:28 We pray for every person whose life or livelihood has been
09:05:33 negatively impacted by the SU- shutdown of our government.
09:05:37 We pray for the elected leaders of our city, our county, our
09:05:42 state, and our nation.
09:05:44 Give them wisdom beyond their own to fulfill their calling
09:05:49 in the confluence of conflicting agendas.
09:05:52 May we the people rise above petty partisanship, that
09:05:58 together with our leaders we may yet form a more perfect
09:06:04 world, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility,
09:06:07 provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,
09:06:12 and secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and for
09:06:16 our posterity.
09:06:18 To that end, empower us by your spirit that government of
09:06:23 the people, by the people and for the people might not
09:06:30 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:06:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Roll call.
09:06:57 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
09:07:02 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
09:07:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:07:04 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
09:07:05 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Here.
09:07:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:07:10 I need a motion for the adoption of the minutes of the
09:07:12 meeting held September 26th.
09:07:14 Motion by Mr. Cohen, second by Mr. Suarez on a close vote
09:07:17 with Mrs. Mulhern.
09:07:18 All in favor of the motion?
09:07:20 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:07:28 We are going to ceremonial activities for the presentation,
09:07:32 commendation to the transportation division, and I believe
09:07:35 that would be a motion by Mike Suarez.
09:07:38 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Good morning.
09:07:57 Thanks so much for -- I just made it in the nick of time and
09:08:02 probably because of the help of the transportation division.
09:08:10 We are here to give a commendation to our transportation
09:08:14 They received the APWA exceptional performance award in
09:08:20 This is especially important because it's awarded during the
09:08:24 performance for the Republican national convention that was
09:08:27 here last year.
09:08:28 The City of Tampa transportation division created the RNC
09:08:32 transportation committee.
09:08:33 They created mass time lines and maps addressing each and
09:08:39 every traffic control issue.
09:08:42 The planning and effective resolution implemented helped
09:08:46 once again to ensure safety for everyone during an event
09:08:49 that put the spotlight directly on Tampa Bay.
09:08:51 It's my pleasure to introduce our transportation division
09:08:55 for their hard work last year during the RNC and for the
09:08:58 award from the APWA.
09:09:02 [ Applause ]
09:09:15 >> Thank you.
09:09:16 If I could take a moment, council, to recognize all the
09:09:18 great folks in our transportation team.
09:09:20 We have such a dynamic group of creative and positive
09:09:24 Every time I come before up there's been somebody in the
09:09:26 background, putting information together, researching some
09:09:30 We have such a great group that come in every day and really
09:09:33 work hard to keep our city streets safe and functioning and
09:09:37 we were really excited to receive this award because it is a
09:09:39 national award.
09:09:40 It's the very first time that the City of Tampa has received
09:09:43 this award.
09:09:44 And it not only recognize it is creative planning and
09:09:48 engineering for the RNC but we really feel that it says that
09:09:52 Tampa is a place that can have these great cycle events, and
09:09:58 look forward to coming to our city and having more of those
09:10:03 in the future.
09:10:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Duncan, I think they ought to
09:10:07 introduce themselves.
09:10:08 >> We can certainly do that.
09:10:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There might be might not be a second
09:10:15 (self introductions).
09:11:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I guess you are wondering why I said
09:11:14 If everybody buys the tape.
09:11:16 Mr. Cohen?
09:11:18 >> Thank you so much, council.
09:11:20 We really appreciate all the support you give us as well.
09:11:24 It makes our jobs a lot easier.
09:11:27 >> We appreciate everything you have done.
09:11:29 >>HARRY COHEN: I just want to say that so many of the calls
09:11:31 that we receive in our office are things related directly to
09:11:34 the transportation department, and we appreciate so much the
09:11:39 effort that you guys put in to responding to the citizen
09:11:43 complaints, suggestions, it runs the gamut of everything
09:11:48 that we get.
09:11:48 And we really particularly appreciate how you always come
09:11:52 back to us with the information.
09:11:54 Sometimes we are able to solve people's problems.
09:11:56 Sometimes we just have to explain why things are the way
09:11:59 they are.
09:12:00 But one way or the other, we very much appreciate all the
09:12:03 work that goes in behind the scenes.
09:12:05 >>JEAN DUNCAN: Thank you so much.
09:12:09 We really appreciate it.
09:12:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Make sure the lights are working.
09:12:15 Okay, item number 2 is a presentation commendation for one
09:12:18 of our finest, Reginald Williams.
09:12:23 Mr. Frank Reddick.
09:12:38 >>FRANK REDDICK: Good morning, council.
09:12:42 Officer Reginald Williams recently retired after 26 years of
09:12:48 work with the Tampa Police Department.
09:12:52 Officer Williams worked to help unify the Robles Park
09:12:57 housing project.
09:13:03 Officer Williams originally retired after 26 years of
09:13:14 Officer Williams worked to help unify the Williams park
09:13:17 housing complex, painting murals on the sides of buildings
09:13:21 to improve the area.
09:13:23 Officer Williams also worked on undercover operations and 15
09:13:31 arrests, cocaine, crack cocaine, and numerous firearms taken
09:13:35 off the streets.
09:13:37 During the service to the TPD, officer Williams saved a
09:13:41 child from a burning home, has served on numerous boards,.
09:13:47 Officer Williams spent the last 13 years on the traffic
09:13:54 Before he retired he was presented with an award in 2009 for
09:13:57 rescuing another child from an armed suspect.
09:14:01 Officer Williams, Tampa City Council would be like to take
09:14:03 this opportunity not only to thank you for your services,
09:14:06 but extend best wishes to you as you move forward in your
09:14:10 retirement and thank you for making our city a safer place.
09:14:15 [ Applause ]
09:14:17 >> Good morning.
09:14:48 I would like to thank Councilman Reddick as well as the
09:14:51 other City Council members for this acknowledgment.
09:14:56 The last 26 and a half years were great.
09:15:03 I invited some of my co-workers from the motor squad who I
09:15:07 worked beside for the last 13 years who were very
09:15:12 instrumental in my success as well.
09:15:17 My supervisor, as well as corporal weeks, were also very
09:15:25 I just want to say thank you.
09:15:26 I appreciate it.
09:15:28 I am enjoying my retirement so far.
09:15:30 And I look forward to the other guys joining me pretty soon.
09:15:33 I just want them to stay safe.
09:15:35 And I appreciate everything that the city has done for me.
09:15:39 Thank you all.
09:15:39 Have a good day.
09:15:41 [ Applause ]
09:15:51 We go to the approval of the agenda, consent, the addendum
09:15:56 has been changed, 75, 76, 77 are now being consent.
09:16:00 Am I correct?
09:16:01 >>LISA MONTELIONE: That's correct, Mr. Chair.
09:16:03 Thank you.
09:16:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I appreciate it very much.
09:16:05 I need a --
09:16:07 >> Move to approve the a agenda.
09:16:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Moved by Mr. Suarez, seconded by Mrs.
09:16:11 All in favor of the motion?
09:16:13 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:16:20 We go to public comments from the floor.
09:16:22 Anyone who wants to speak to any item on the agenda first
09:16:24 and then any item off the agenda.
09:16:30 All right.
09:16:34 Anyone on the agenda want to speak to anything on the agenda
09:16:38 Then off the agenda.
09:16:39 >> I am Ellen Snelling, the chair of the Tampa alcohol
09:16:44 coalition, and I just came to speak in support of City
09:16:48 Council's efforts and city legal Tampa Police Department and
09:16:52 Ybor City Development Corporation in the development of
09:16:59 There's going to be a presentation, I think item 72, about
09:17:02 that and I just wanted to say that we are very much in
09:17:04 support of that and we hope that the ordinances will help to
09:17:09 bring more safety to the bars and clubs and especially the
09:17:14 late-night permit that have been discussed self times here.
09:17:17 Thank you very much.
09:17:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:17:20 Really appreciate it.
09:17:21 Next, please.
09:17:22 >> Good morning, Councilman, chairman.
09:17:29 My name is Joseph Capitano, Sr. representing Ybor City
09:17:33 Development Corporation.
09:17:34 I am chairman of the Public Safety Committee.
09:17:39 And we have spent ungodly hours working on item 72.
09:17:44 And I recommend that you pass it the way it is projected.
09:17:52 It will probably affect Ybor City property more so than any
09:17:55 other district, and the people involved agreed to it, and we
09:18:01 think met with the city, met with the people, had numerous
09:18:05 meetings over the past year and a half and recommend highly
09:18:07 that you all go with the suggestion of the Ybor City
09:18:10 Development Corporation.
09:18:11 Thank you.
09:18:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:18:13 Appreciate it very much, Mr. Capitano.
09:18:15 Next, please.
09:18:16 >> I'm Teresa Miller.
09:18:24 And I have been working with Ellen for five years on the
09:18:27 Tampa alcohol coalition.
09:18:29 I got involved in coalition group because my son was
09:18:34 addicted to prescription drugs and I wanted to figure out
09:18:37 how to help him, but not only how to help him but to help
09:18:41 other parents and community members.
09:18:45 And I realize that many times alcohol and other drugs, as I
09:18:49 like to say, go hand in hand.
09:18:52 So I have been actively involved in the community.
09:18:55 And years ago when it was brought to my attention that
09:18:59 18-year-olds were allowed in clubs, I can honestly say I was
09:19:06 It never occurred to me that anyone under 21 would be
09:19:09 allowed in an environment where drinking and partying was
09:19:13 the number one activity.
09:19:15 And I listened to the club owners express how concerned they
09:19:20 were for their young people and they wanted to give them a
09:19:23 place to go and have fun, and they seemed to think that they
09:19:25 were monitoring them well, but it just was very surprising.
09:19:29 I think anything we can do to help improve the health and
09:19:34 safety of our children is most important, and keeping them
09:19:38 out of these clubs where alcohol is a possibility.
09:19:46 Anything we can do to keep our kids safe would be
09:19:51 I know when I was in college, the drinking age was 18, and I
09:19:54 hear so many people say, oh, it was 18.
09:19:56 Well, there's a good reason it's 21 now.
09:20:00 Science has proven that if we can keep them from drinking
09:20:04 and binge drinking until they reach 21, the odds of anyone
09:20:09 having an addiction problem is significantly reduced and by
09:20:13 helping them not go to these clubs I think will help our
09:20:16 communities and free up some of our policemen's time so they
09:20:21 aren't constantly at these clubs trying to monitor underage
09:20:25 drinking, but we put more of that on the clubs and keep the
09:20:28 18-year-olds out, it will benefit our whole community.
09:20:31 Thank you.
09:20:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:20:33 Next, please.
09:20:58 >> Pete Johnson again.
09:21:01 The only reason I come to you is when I don't get answers
09:21:04 from department heads.
09:21:07 And this really kind of ticks me off.
09:21:09 But, anyway, two things.
09:21:12 One of the pieces of paper that I am sending you is just
09:21:16 copies of what I have already sent you in e-mail.
09:21:19 The one shows an enormous amount of code violations that
09:21:24 have been going on since 2008.
09:21:31 Racking up hundreds of thousands of fines but nothing
09:21:37 happened since the hearing.
09:21:45 Nothing happened.
09:21:46 So what is the sense of it?
09:21:48 Why are we paying this department money to enforce the codes
09:21:53 when they don't even follow up?
09:21:56 The other thing I want to bring to your attention, twice I
09:22:08 have sent e-mails to the code enforcement officers, the
09:22:11 supervisor and the administrator about violations that were
09:22:16 found, no problems found.
09:22:21 This property, sidewalks and uses the easement for parking.
09:22:31 I don't understand.
09:22:32 After two e-mails, still no cases have been opened.
09:22:39 Where is the accountability?
09:22:44 I'm only doing this to try to improve neighborhoods and the
09:22:47 quality of life.
09:22:47 But the fact that I get no response from the administration
09:22:54 is -- I'm ready to pull my hair out.
09:22:58 Do their job.
09:22:59 I'm sorry.
09:23:00 But I am totally disgusted with the management and the
09:23:03 administration of the code enforcement department.
09:23:08 Thank you.
09:23:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:23:10 Next, please.
09:23:10 >> Ed Tillou from Sulphur Springs.
09:23:21 I don't have this ready to hand out, as I do most of the
09:23:26 time, but as I leave I will.
09:23:37 He said the problem with the City Council and county
09:23:42 commission, when it comes down to it these are things like
09:23:46 liquor licenses, code enforcement, planning decisions, and
09:23:50 these are important things.
09:23:51 But global warming is very important in this sense.
09:23:56 The scientific papers are starting to be published and I
09:23:59 have one or two of them on it.
09:24:03 So to the simplistic level, because I had assumed that it
09:24:07 was a 5 to 8 trillion-dollar thing but then I was only
09:24:11 considering the United States rather than the planet.
09:24:13 But what's likely by 2050 or 2060 is that tremendous
09:24:22 setbacks in agricultural production, and food and this kind
09:24:30 of thing.
09:24:31 It was in the paper about South Dakota, and, well, first,
09:24:40 people that are getting massive increases in their flood
09:24:47 But that's because of this global warming.
09:24:50 And then you say the methane.
09:25:07 And we copious fuel.
09:25:12 But, anyway, there's research being done, like the Volt,
09:25:16 like the Chevy Volt, down to about $18,000 now.
09:25:19 There is no action.
09:25:21 And this is where the rubber hits the road.
09:25:23 This is the place there should be action on this.
09:25:26 The transportation department should be coming to you.
09:25:30 Now, I think they do have -- they should be coming to you,
09:25:35 pleading, please, get the Volt, because we don't want any
09:25:44 So I pulled over the papers.
09:25:45 (Bell sounds)
09:25:47 And a double digit chance of what I have in these articles
09:25:52 I'll give over.
09:25:54 There's a double digit chance, 10%, 90%, we don't know.
09:25:59 But it's on the scale.
09:26:02 Now, there's also a single-digit chance of an extinction
09:26:06 event because this is apparently they are starting to do the
09:26:10 carbon 14 studies and things.
09:26:11 This is apparently what happened in the period 200 million
09:26:15 years ago.
09:26:16 So earth may shed itself of a troublesome species.
09:26:21 So this is important.
09:26:22 You need to buy what my profession produces for people.
09:26:26 In other words, the Volt.
09:26:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:26:33 I'm not debating.
09:26:36 I'm just making a general statement.
09:26:38 That's all I am going to say.
09:26:40 Thank you very much.
09:26:42 Bring me 10 volts at 18,000.
09:26:45 Thank you very much.
09:26:48 All right.
09:26:53 We go now to -- I need to waive the rules so we can get the
09:26:57 department heads, if I may.
09:27:02 Motion by Mrs. Montelione.
09:27:03 Seconded by two others.
09:27:05 Mr. Suarez.
09:27:06 All in favor of that motion opposed?
09:27:09 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:27:10 We go now to staff reports.
09:27:13 If the staff is here.
09:27:17 I did it just for them.
09:27:22 What a letdown.
09:27:25 It's a good thing.
09:27:26 That means they are working.
09:27:29 So --
09:27:31 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Here we go.
09:27:46 They are on the phone buying a Volt.
09:27:48 >> I'm here with Tampa police officer. We were asked to
09:27:55 provide information to you regarding the red light camera
09:27:58 program and the yellow timings that are now being required
09:28:02 to be updated as part of that.
09:28:04 A memo was sent out yesterday basically the information that
09:28:13 was provided is just a summary, the Department of
09:28:18 Transportation directive that are requiring that the yellow
09:28:23 timings and also the red timings at our intersections that
09:28:26 have the red light running cameras are required to have
09:28:30 those updated to meet state criteria now and the deadline
09:28:35 for that is December 31st of this year.
09:28:37 So we have attachment of information that shows all the
09:28:43 cameras that we have active on the streets are planned to be
09:28:48 upgraded by the deadline, and we will then continue our
09:28:56 We'll make sure those timing upgrades are done prior to
09:28:59 the -- and I think the officer is going to share with you as
09:29:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Mulhern, do you want the floor now or
09:29:10 would you care to wait are? All right, thank you.
09:29:14 >> You were asking about the crash statistics so we pulled
09:29:19 some from November 1st, 2011 to October 31st, 2012
09:29:24 which is the first year we had the cameras installed. There
09:29:27 were 121 crashes at those intersections that contained red
09:29:30 light cameras.
09:29:33 We pulled the exact time frame, November 1st, 2012 to
09:29:38 October 21st, 2013, which showed 108 crashes, reduction
09:29:42 of 10.74%.
09:29:44 I also pulled the actual notice of violations that were
09:29:48 issued out so we could see if we were issuing more or less.
09:29:52 I did that from the time frame of November 1st, 2011
09:29:55 when we first started the program, all the way through
09:30:00 October 1st, 2012.
09:30:03 We issued 71,459 NOB violations.
09:30:10 An exact year later from November 1st, 2012 through
09:30:13 October 1st, 2013, we had issued 56,846, which was
09:30:21 14,613 less.
09:30:24 We actually had more cameras in the latter years, the
09:30:29 numbers should have gone up.
09:30:30 But they are going down somewhere around 15,000 a year that
09:30:34 we are not issuing as many.
09:30:36 So we are changing behavior.
09:30:37 People are getting the idea that if you run this red light
09:30:40 you are probably going to receive a notice of violation.
09:30:42 So they are doing what they are supposed to be doing.
09:30:46 I know last time we were here we talked about where is the
09:30:49 money going, even though the police department has no
09:30:52 concern, we are interested in reducing crashes, as I said
09:30:58 before, but I did pull some figures up.
09:31:00 By law $10 of every one of those goes into the Department of
09:31:03 Health and emergency medical services trust fund.
09:31:07 $3 of every one of those citations goes to the spinal cord
09:31:13 brain trust fund.
09:31:15 Since we have had this program, we have deposited over a
09:31:22 million dollars in those two funds, the City of Tampa,
09:31:26 county program.
09:31:27 770,000 into the health care trust fund, and 231,000 into
09:31:33 the brain and spinal cord trust fund.
09:31:35 So the money is going to some places that do quite a bit.
09:31:39 Also, I was asked the camera locations.
09:31:44 All the camera locations are on state roads, with the
09:31:47 exception of one, which is on a county road, and that's
09:31:50 Armenia and waters.
09:31:51 They are all located, of course, within the City of Tampa.
09:31:55 So you can understand what we are looking at when we do
09:31:58 these violations, brought some video, just a short 12-second
09:32:02 clip if we could bring those up right now.
09:32:15 These are just some of the regular things on these NOBs.
09:32:19 If we can bring the next one up.
09:32:29 And there should be one or two more.
09:32:37 You can see from our perspective these are the worst things.
09:32:48 If I can reduce those crashes, I can have 15,000 less of
09:32:52 this kind of stuff every year.
09:32:54 That makes the intersections all safer.
09:32:56 I can't put a police officer out there 24-7 to issue
09:33:00 citations and can't and we can have a camera in those
09:33:05 That's all I have got.
09:33:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
09:33:07 Ms. Mulhern?
09:33:08 >>MARY MULHERN: I was just going to ask, because I haven't
09:33:14 had a chance to read through the backup.
09:33:21 There was a memo from FDOT in May of 2013, and then the
09:33:27 second one which is September, and my question was
09:33:30 whether -- it sounds like we are going to comply with the
09:33:35 September requirements as far as the timing on that?
09:33:38 The red-yellow lights?
09:33:42 >>JEAN DUNCAN: Yes.
09:33:44 Some additional parameters that they have now added that
09:33:46 need to be upgraded as well as the ones that they
09:33:49 established in May.
09:33:50 So we will comply with the latest directive.
09:33:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Can you give me an idea of what changed, or
09:33:59 what's additional?
09:34:00 >>JEAN DUNCAN: Yes.
09:34:01 What they have done is they added individual times to what's
09:34:05 called the reaction time that was done in May.
09:34:08 And then in September, they added additional clearance
09:34:13 times, the all-red.
09:34:16 There's an issue of time, when the reds go together, another
09:34:21 safety feature with the intersection.
09:34:23 And they also cleared up some nuances, mathematical rounding
09:34:31 and then policy rounding, and that was causing some
09:34:34 So they cleared that up.
09:34:35 And they also established a minimum for the yellow
09:34:38 regardless, a minimum of 3.4 seconds.
09:34:43 So that was added on.
09:34:45 >>MARY MULHERN: Is it actually -- does it actually
09:34:55 reduce -- or overall is it increasing the time for the
09:35:00 >>JEAN DUNCAN: Yes.
09:35:01 It's increasing the yellow time.
09:35:03 You know, across the board.
09:35:05 And it's increasing the amount of time that the intersection
09:35:08 is red on all four sides.
09:35:11 So for someone having an issue with the yellow, the all-red
09:35:17 is another layer of safety and that's red on all four sides,
09:35:23 going to the intersection, and the scenes that TPD just
09:35:30 showed hopefully will have a reduction of those added
09:35:33 seconds through the calculation now.
09:35:36 >>MARY MULHERN: So all of our -- that's pretty soon,
09:35:40 December 31st.
09:35:41 >>JEAN DUNCAN: Yes.
09:35:45 I have attached a schedule in your information there that
09:35:49 shows that for the existing TPD cameras, we are going to
09:35:55 have all of them actually done, the majority of them done by
09:35:58 the end of November but certainly all of them done by the
09:36:01 end of December.
09:36:02 December 31st is the deadline from to be established so
09:36:07 we will certainly meet that deadline and make sure they are
09:36:09 all updated prior to that time.
09:36:11 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
09:36:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Montelione.
09:36:14 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
09:36:16 I had asked Mrs. Torres from the MPO to be here to discuss
09:36:21 our crash mitigation studies that she has been doing for
09:36:26 quite some time now, because with the yellow lights, that
09:36:35 more rear end crashes would be occurring because people are
09:36:38 trying to stop, they know they are going to get a ticket if
09:36:42 they run the red light.
09:36:44 So can you just discuss that for us?
09:36:47 >> Sure.
09:36:48 Tina Torres, Hillsborough MPO.
09:36:50 Thank you for having me here.
09:36:52 We do a lot of these plans and I appreciate that.
09:36:57 But the crash reduction studies, the worst corridors in the
09:37:03 whole county, not specifically where these red light cameras
09:37:08 are, but we found that motorists and pedestrians and
09:37:15 I don't know that we looked at rear end crashes.
09:37:18 I don't think we did.
09:37:19 But what we got out of the study if anything was that these
09:37:23 play such a big role in the severity of crashes, like a 20%
09:37:31 chance of survival at 20 miles an hour, at 40 it's an 80%
09:37:35 chance they won't make it.
09:37:36 So that's how speed exponentially plays a role in severity
09:37:42 of crashes.
09:37:42 So that's one of the areas that we have really been trying
09:37:45 to focus on, and hopefully we could probably look -- we have
09:37:56 looked into the causes of the crashes but I am not positive
09:38:00 that we pulled out those that are rear end.
09:38:03 We might have that data.
09:38:04 Not necessarily in that study but I think I can do.
09:38:09 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Because what I am interested in, I have
09:38:13 always said that the red light cameras are about the safety.
09:38:16 And with what we are seeing, it seems to be working.
09:38:20 A lot of what you said was expressed over the difference of
09:38:26 the timing of the yellows, and whether or not, you know,
09:38:30 that would cause people to have more rear-end collisions
09:38:35 because they suddenly stop for the yellow, and the person
09:38:41 behind them if they came -- it's still yellow.
09:38:47 So maybe something that we at the MPO could ask you to take
09:38:50 a look at.
09:38:51 Thank you.
09:38:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Comments, any other council members?
09:38:57 Let me say this.
09:38:57 And I appreciate and understand the statistics that were
09:38:59 brought up, reduction of those that have lights.
09:39:03 Has there been any sampling in the city of those
09:39:06 intersections that have no cameras to see also a reduction
09:39:11 of collisions have occurred at those same intersections so
09:39:17 we can have a comparative study?
09:39:18 Right now there is no comparative study.
09:39:21 Only those with lights.
09:39:22 >>JEAN DUNCAN: If I understand, you are interested in
09:39:26 intersections without the cameras?
09:39:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Correct.
09:39:30 >>JEAN DUNCAN: Without the traffic signals.
09:39:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Interceptions that have no cameras that
09:39:34 have had accidents in the past, has there also been a
09:39:38 reduction in those intersections so we can have a broader
09:39:42 view to understand the auditing to see if those are true?
09:39:47 In other words, not that I am doubting you.
09:39:50 I'm saying also prove to the fact that the people themselves
09:39:56 now, because they have realized that photo enhanced means
09:39:59 not stop here and get a passport photo, it means they'll get
09:40:02 a ticket.
09:40:02 >>JEAN DUNCAN: I'm right.
09:40:05 I'm sure we can take a look at that.
09:40:07 I can't think of the term, but there's a term we use where
09:40:11 the behavior that we are establishing now where the cameras
09:40:15 are is now being --
09:40:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Modified in the brain cells so you
09:40:20 understand don't run the light.
09:40:24 >>JEAN DUNCAN: Right.
09:40:25 And I'm sure that other people are learning because they got
09:40:28 caught at a red light intersection, and the same cause of
09:40:32 behavior at another intersection.
09:40:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: One more technical question.
09:40:35 A little bit more technical.
09:40:37 I have noticed that in many intersections in this city, and
09:40:40 in many other cities, are all timed differently.
09:40:43 And I am not talking about 3.2 of a second I'm talking about
09:40:52 5 to 7 seconds.
09:40:53 And let me explain.
09:40:54 Driving down the street, and you see 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1,
09:41:00 bing, the light changes automatically.
09:41:02 All of a sudden you drive around the city, you get to
09:41:04 another intersection and you see 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, and
09:41:08 you are waiting for it to change.
09:41:10 It doesn't change.
09:41:11 Like a 5 to 7-second delay.
09:41:13 So it allows you to take the light.
09:41:16 So that's confusing the same one brain cell that says, oh, I
09:41:20 got to stop, no, I got to go, I got to stop, no, I have got
09:41:24 to go.
09:41:25 Is there going to be any modification in the system, not
09:41:28 only in our system, talking generally, that these things are
09:41:30 going to be adjusted to the same way?
09:41:36 >>JEAN DUNCAN: Well, we feel there's a consistency now.
09:41:39 Those count down numbers you see are based on the amount of
09:41:43 time that we have to calculate for the pedestrian to cross
09:41:45 the street.
09:41:46 So depending on the width of this street, that amount of
09:41:49 time can change.
09:41:50 So if you are a driver, and you are using the pedestrian
09:41:54 countdown to make a decision about going through the light,
09:41:58 you are mixing traffic control devices there.
09:42:02 You want to use the light to make a driving decision, and
09:42:05 the countdown to make a pedestrian crossing decision.
09:42:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
09:42:09 I am going to take you out to lunch, and you and I are going
09:42:12 to watch, and that theory doesn't hold water.
09:42:15 I respectfully disagree with you.
09:42:18 Mrs. Capin and Mr. Suarez.
09:42:21 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes, I totally agree.
09:42:23 I have even spoken to law enforcement officers, and I have
09:42:27 said they look at that light.
09:42:30 Everybody -- that is not going to happen.
09:42:34 I just don't see people stand there and they do look at that
09:42:40 crosswalk, and they gauge that crosswalk, and I don't know
09:42:45 how that's going to be -- one of the reasons why, you know,
09:42:49 I do believe that the red light cameras are for safety and
09:42:54 have proven to be safe.
09:42:56 My only concern was where the dollars went.
09:42:59 And I felt then as I do now that that money should be
09:43:04 allocated to improve those intersections that have proven to
09:43:08 be so dangerous, and that's not happening.
09:43:12 And that is the main concern.
09:43:14 And I do believe it's a concern up in Tallahassee.
09:43:19 So that's all I have to say.
09:43:20 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair.
09:43:23 Mrs. Duncan, you know, it's funny -- I'm not sure what kind
09:43:31 of joke I will get out of that, but anyway, you know, some
09:43:34 of the timings are different.
09:43:36 And aren't they different because of being arterial or
09:43:39 commercial corridors?
09:43:40 Because what I have seen with some of the roads that we
09:43:44 control versus some of the FDOT roads and even some of the
09:43:47 county roads, that those differences in light times are
09:43:52 based on the amount of traffic loads.
09:43:54 >> There's a lot of variables that go into calculating the
09:43:58 timing of the intersection, the width of the travel lane,
09:44:01 the speed limit, other factors.
09:44:04 So there's different parameters that go in.
09:44:06 Every intersection is not exactly identical, although it
09:44:09 might seem like felt you are driving through, and you have
09:44:12 got some that have a left turn either permitted or
09:44:18 So there's a lot of differences with the intersections out
09:44:21 there that create a different calculation for either the
09:44:26 pedestrian crossing time, the yellow, or the red times, but
09:44:30 we follow all the criteria for that.
09:44:34 Those are national standards that we are following, that the
09:44:37 D.O.T. is also utilizing.
09:44:39 So we do believe there's consistency, burr I am certainly
09:44:43 glad to try to look into your --
09:44:48 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Well, I think your terminology is incorrect,
09:44:51 because I think that you think consistency means that it is
09:44:54 the same at every intersection.
09:44:57 I think that you are misspeaking, in my opinion, because
09:45:01 there's no way you can have consistency based on the
09:45:04 criteria you just mentioned.
09:45:06 And I know for an example -- and this is all anecdotal as
09:45:13 Mr. Miranda said, there are some lights that are a lot
09:45:15 quicker than other turn lights.
09:45:16 And I know it because of the traffic flow.
09:45:18 So I would suggest -- and this is just a friendly
09:45:21 suggestion -- that consistency is kind of the wrong word.
09:45:24 Consistency in terms of the methodology, I would agree.
09:45:27 >> Exactly.
09:45:30 We are consistent with the application of the criteria, but
09:45:33 every intersection is different.
09:45:36 So depending what you said on the volume of traffic, the
09:45:39 speed limit, the lane which had they, speed lanes, all those
09:45:44 factors, you will have different times for the amount of
09:45:47 green time that you get, the red arrow time, you know,
09:45:50 whatever the movements are, there are different times out
09:45:53 But we use a consistent method to calculate those with all
09:45:58 of our intersections.
09:46:00 Every intersection is different than the others.
09:46:04 There's none exactly alike.
09:46:05 >> And I get the frustration that as a driver, and I know
09:46:09 many other people who are drivers understand this, is that
09:46:11 you get frustrated because you are at one intersection and
09:46:14 you may not travel on very much, and it's a completely
09:46:17 different timing mechanism that's happening at that moment,
09:46:21 depending on where you are at within the city.
09:46:23 And I will agree with my colleague Mrs. Capin in terms of I
09:46:28 agree that red lights are proven in terms of safety.
09:46:33 What I would suggest to the legislature is that they
09:46:36 probably should use some of that dollars to improve the
09:46:39 driving habits of those people, because I don't think that
09:46:41 the intersection itself will improve some of the awful
09:46:45 driving we saw in the videos that were presented to us.
09:46:49 I mean, there was a pedestrian that was almost hit, you
09:46:52 know, there were several crashes that were shown, and that's
09:46:55 just bad driving.
09:46:56 And aggressive driving when it shouldn't be.
09:46:59 So thank you, Mrs. Duncan.
09:47:02 Thank you, chair.
09:47:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And you earned your reward now.
09:47:08 [ Laughter ] I want you to smile when you leave.
09:47:11 All right.
09:47:12 That's wonderful.
09:47:13 All right.
09:47:14 Item number 70 goes with item 43, which is Mrs.
09:47:21 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Move 43 to be heard with item 70.
09:47:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione open
09:47:26 item 43 to be heard with 70.
09:47:28 All in favor of that motion?
09:47:31 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:47:34 Is staff here for item 70 and 43 together?
09:47:38 Yes, sir.
09:47:38 >>BOB McDONAUGH: Administrative economic development.
09:47:42 I had previously given council an overview of the CRA board.
09:47:47 This is the purchase of land in the Channel District which
09:47:50 will complete the master plan for parks within the Channel
09:47:55 District, and again it will be right in the center of where
09:47:59 we have quite a bit of development going on, and I ask
09:48:02 council to approve the purchase, and the donation of the
09:48:09 additional lane.
09:48:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 43 is the acceptance, and 70 is the
09:48:14 actual purchasing of the land adjacent.
09:48:16 >>FRANK REDDICK: Bob, I just want you to make sure that you
09:48:24 cleared it up because I received so many calls, and so many
09:48:31 people contacting me were saying how could the city turn
09:48:39 this into a park, and they are not knowing --
09:48:42 >>BOB McDONAUGH: Exactly.
09:48:43 >>FRANK REDDICK: If you can clear that up.
09:48:46 Because, I mean, people are thinking just coming out of the
09:48:49 general fund, and if you can just clear that up for us.
09:48:53 >>BOB McDONAUGH: Again, the source of the funding is taxes
09:48:56 raised specifically in the Channel District CRA, which can
09:49:00 only be spent within that geographic area.
09:49:03 So this is not CIP money, this is not general funding money.
09:49:07 This is money that the taxpayers in the Channel District
09:49:11 specifically set aside for improvements within that CRA
09:49:15 And so that money has been earmarked for that.
09:49:19 The master plan was developed several years ago.
09:49:22 And this is the third part in the master plan.
09:49:25 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
09:49:29 We at council knew that.
09:49:30 But the public, it was not clear.
09:49:33 It was not clear.
09:49:36 I know I received a lot of calls and a lot of people asking
09:49:39 me about that.
09:49:40 So I wanted to put it on the record.
09:49:41 >>BOB McDONAUGH: Yes, sir.
09:49:43 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
09:49:44 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I would like to further clarify that,
09:49:47 because you used the term CIT money, and members of the
09:49:55 public may not know how that is raised and where the revenue
09:49:58 money comes from.
09:49:58 Again we all know what the answer to that question is.
09:50:01 But where does the money come from and why does it only have
09:50:04 to be -- why can it only be spent begun the district?
09:50:09 >>BOB McDONAUGH: Okay.
09:50:12 Going back to the Community Redevelopment Agency, certain
09:50:16 areas within the city were identified as needing large
09:50:22 amounts of improvement, and done in a certain period of
09:50:27 C so the Community Redevelopment Agency identified
09:50:32 geographic areas and set up CRAs.
09:50:34 And in the CRAs, a special district, that the money is set
09:50:40 aside and can only be spent within a certain geographic
09:50:44 And so the Channel District.
09:50:46 with its transition from a heavy industrial area to a mixed
09:50:51 use residential area was identified as an area that was
09:50:54 going to take a lot of capital improvement to bring it up to
09:50:57 the standards to make it useful at the residential area.
09:51:01 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And that is tax money paid by the
09:51:05 citizens who live within -- or who own buildings within
09:51:08 Channelside, so it's their tax dollars being spent on the
09:51:11 area in which they live or own businesses?
09:51:13 >>BOB McDONAUGH: That's correct.
09:51:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else?
09:51:17 Thank you.
09:51:18 >>HARRY COHEN: Move item 70 and 43.
09:51:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
09:51:28 Discussion by council members?
09:51:29 All in favor?
09:51:31 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:51:33 Thank you all very much.
09:51:35 Item 71 was earlier in the addendum.
09:51:39 That's for November 7th.
09:51:41 We did that when we passed the addendum.
09:51:44 Item number 72.
09:51:45 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
09:51:55 On 72, City Council had asked the legal department to come
09:51:59 back and write some proposals to regulate alcoholic
09:52:03 beverages from a business regulation perspective rather than
09:52:06 a land use perspective.
09:52:09 As you will also recall, the state has planned the area as
09:52:15 licensing alcoholic establishment areas, they have kept that
09:52:18 to themselves and planned it from that area.
09:52:21 However, there are other options that we have.
09:52:23 And two of them came up at that workshop.
09:52:25 And are located in the motion.
09:52:27 One has to do with regulating nightclubs which was proposed
09:52:32 by, I believe, the YCDC, and the other one hours of
09:52:37 operation known as the late night license or late night
09:52:40 And that was brought up by the cultural assets committee.
09:52:44 And they have asked to look more into that.
09:52:47 The YCDC proposal has been sent to you, and I believe it's
09:52:54 been sent to you a couple of times, but I hesitate to
09:53:01 paraphrase what they put forward.
09:53:03 I will say they were working with city staff on the
09:53:06 But in sum, what they proposed was an annual permit for
09:53:09 nightclubs, and nightclubs are defined -- that definition,
09:53:17 places that people over 18, have over 250 people, open after
09:53:22 1:00, and at least have a confer charge, a minimum drink
09:53:30 purchase, or open area.
09:53:31 So they are trying to target a narrow group from those
09:53:34 establishments that cause, I think, some of the most
09:53:38 Once you get your permit, then you are subject to revocation
09:53:42 or suspension based upon a number of factors, and the
09:53:45 factors that are proposed in what they have put forward to
09:53:49 you are, felonies of controlled substances, firearm
09:53:57 violations, basically violent crime, homicide, felony
09:54:02 murder, aggravated battery, felony battery, aggravated
09:54:06 sexual battery, sale to or possession of alcoholic beverages
09:54:11 by minors and thence additional violations within a time
09:54:20 And also a requirement that some person have training and if
09:54:32 there were violations that bun of the penalties or one of
09:54:34 the requirements to reopen would be extra duty.
09:54:38 There's some discussion about requiring extra duty up front,
09:54:41 and I think the final recommendation is that additional
09:54:46 security only be required if there were violations.
09:54:50 In looking at the other proposal, the request from the
09:54:55 committee, and I received a great deal of information from
09:54:57 Tampa Alcohol Coalition, and I would like to thank them.
09:55:01 It's very difficult to find -- all the jurisdictions in the
09:55:07 State of Florida that also have these but we have been able
09:55:09 to come up with 19 other jurisdictions that have something
09:55:12 similar to a late night permit.
09:55:14 And a late night permit would be a business regulation.
09:55:16 Again it would not be something that runs with the land.
09:55:18 It would be something that would apply even evenly to all of
09:55:23 the businesses that it's applied to. Hours of operation are
09:55:28 3 a.m.
09:55:28 Typically what this late night permit does is it requires an
09:55:31 earlier closing for alcohol establishments, 11:00, midnight,
09:55:37 1:00, and then if you want to stay open later, you have to
09:55:42 come to the city to get a permit.
09:55:45 And then that permit which is expressly said, it is a
09:55:49 privilege, and it can be revoked or suspended based upon
09:55:53 certain criteria. So, I mean, for purposes of example --
09:55:57 and these are some of the policy decisions, that you would
09:56:00 have to make, but assuming for purposes of discussion that
09:56:04 it would close at midnight and then they would be able if
09:56:06 they received a permit stay open till 4 a.m.
09:56:11 As I think I said, there were 19 other jurisdictions that we
09:56:14 were able to find.
09:56:17 Some of them are smaller jurisdictions.
09:56:20 The larger jurisdictions that have done this are
09:56:22 Ft. Lauderdale, which has had it on the books for a number
09:56:24 of years, and St. Pete, which has done it within the last
09:56:27 year or two.
09:56:31 Looking at Ft. Lauderdale and St. Pete, as they are similar,
09:56:35 the way they have it established is it's something that's
09:56:39 easy to get.
09:56:39 You want people to come forward and get it because this is
09:56:42 our tool, it provides the city an additional tool, if there
09:56:46 are violations to take it away.
09:56:48 So basically you apply for it and get a fee, you are
09:56:53 entitled to get a late night permit.
09:56:54 And again, there are a list of things that if they occur,
09:56:58 the permit request be suspended or eventually revoked.
09:57:02 And it would be our recommendation that the suspension be
09:57:05 automatic, that is, we establish an entity in charge of
09:57:10 verifying whether or not these violations took place, and
09:57:13 then they will send a letter, and at that point you are
09:57:16 suspended, and you must close your business, stop selling
09:57:20 alcohol at midnight.
09:57:22 At that point, there are basically two things that the
09:57:24 business can do.
09:57:25 Number one, they will have a right to appeal, provide due
09:57:30 process so they can have the right to appeal to the City
09:57:33 Council, could be the public Nuisance Abatement Board, or
09:57:36 what St. Pete did is they provided an alternative for these
09:57:42 You might not want the appeals process knowing at the end of
09:57:45 the day you could end up suspended.
09:57:47 So what they did is they provide an alternative for these
09:57:49 businesses that have been found to be in violation, and that
09:57:51 is if they agree to provide additional security, and a
09:57:55 security plan that's approved by the chief of police, that
09:57:57 suspension will not go into effect unless there's an
09:58:04 additional violation?
09:58:04 I don't like that one.
09:58:06 You know, let me stop you.
09:58:08 I'm moving to St. Pete.
09:58:11 I didn't know the elderly sat out that late.
09:58:13 >> In addition, if anybody is visited in the plan would
09:58:25 be training or some kind of noise attenuation or limiting
09:58:30 outdoor sound.
09:58:34 Both of these options, I believe, are legally defensible.
09:58:37 They accomplish some of the same things in different ways.
09:58:40 It's a policy decision.
09:58:41 If you would like to go forward.
09:58:45 The bottom line in the beginning of this was when there have
09:58:49 been certain violations at establishments and bars and
09:58:52 nightclubs, now, there have been shootings and other things
09:58:54 and people come before City Council and wants you to shut
09:58:57 down -- right now we don't have a mechanism to do that.
09:58:59 These are two different mechanisms that are outside of the
09:59:03 land use arena, it would be a business regulation that could
09:59:05 be provide you all with the tools to do that.
09:59:08 >>MARY MULHERN: You might have said this and I didn't catch
09:59:15 But with this concept of suspension of the late night hours,
09:59:24 is it like permanent suspension?
09:59:26 Or do you attach a time period to it?
09:59:31 >>REBECCA KERT: Typically warring you see is escalation of
09:59:34 the suspension.
09:59:35 30 days initially, 60 days, 90 days, and eventually
09:59:40 revocation typically is you can't come back for one year.
09:59:42 >>MARY MULHERN: And it's going to be -- it's based on --
09:59:47 let's say you have a 30-day revocation.
09:59:50 So then whatever entity that we create is going to do the
09:59:56 enforcement, then they go back and see -- I don't understand
10:00:01 how you would then -- immediately it would be back in place,
10:00:05 so then if they had a second violation, then it would be
10:00:10 Is that what you are saying?
10:00:12 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes.
10:00:13 During the period of the suspension it would be written in
10:00:15 there that it is a separate violation to operate outside of
10:00:20 the hours that you are allowed.
10:00:21 So if you have a late night permit you are required to close
10:00:26 at midnight and like a place that stays open till 3:30, and
10:00:30 a place that stays open till 12:30, could be subject to
10:00:36 >>MARY MULHERN: I agree with Chairman Miranda about the
10:00:38 idea of having about taking a class or whatever.
10:00:45 I think that you lose the teeth of the whole process.
10:00:48 And I would support having the suspension be the penalty,
10:00:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else?
10:01:01 Ms. Capin?
10:01:03 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you, Mrs. Kert.
10:01:05 I am going to -- what I gleaned is three or four years
10:01:12 meetings with police chief, code enforcement, mayor, legal
10:01:15 constituents, alcohol beverage, business stakeholders, and
10:01:19 notes from Juan Capin who served on the economic alcohol
10:01:25 permits beverage task force, April 4, 2013, and that task
10:01:31 force consisted of Gina Grimes, attorney, Sam Shaw, business
10:01:36 owner on Howard Avenue, Jim Porter, attorney, and of course
10:01:39 Juan Capin.
10:01:40 And they presented, the cultural assets committee presented
10:01:44 May 23rd with that idea of they looked at the changing
10:01:49 the hours of our code.
10:01:56 But most importantly, I just want to say that -- because I
10:02:01 never liked the -- if you change your ways.
10:02:08 We need to have more than that.
10:02:10 The economic value that entertainment establishment
10:02:17 environment, it promotes investment, creates wealth, jobs,
10:02:20 protect existing local jobs, not only in the hospitality
10:02:24 sector but also supporting the business such as bakers,
10:02:27 accountants, advertising agents and more.
10:02:29 It entices start-up businesses to come as well as
10:02:32 established businesses to relocate and promote tourism.
10:02:35 It creates livable cities that cater to the taste of the
10:02:39 Now, we can look at the details, and I will get into that.
10:02:44 One of the things that was referred to here was flex hours.
10:02:52 There are three components to this.
10:02:55 And it's conditions and regulation, and then enforcement.
10:03:01 And without the consideration of the conditions and
10:03:06 regulations, you would not have the desired results.
10:03:14 And the conditions -- in order to receive these permits,
10:03:18 these late-hour permits, there would be conditions that
10:03:22 these establishments agree to adhere to.
10:03:25 What I want to know is -- and I think we spoke about this,
10:03:29 but I need to know, can these conditions be nonseverable?
10:03:44 Because they can be suspended for that part that you agree
10:03:47 >>REBECCA KERT: If I understand your question correctly,
10:03:52 yes, depending on how you set it up.
10:03:54 You may say if you have two violations within a 12-month
10:03:56 period some of these may be more serious, it may be one
10:04:00 violation within a 12-month period but you would not W don't
10:04:04 have to violate all of them.
10:04:09 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
10:04:09 And also, the -- let me go back over here -- I think I can
10:04:19 get into more that the conditions be nonseverable, and
10:04:32 revert to midnight operating hours while they are in
10:04:34 suspension, and they have a certain amount of time to
10:04:40 Now, that time can be ten days; can be whatever legal thinks
10:04:48 is -- will help them bring this forth.
10:04:58 Now, as far as appeal, I don't know how my colleagues feel
10:05:02 about this, but I feel that the appeal should come to this
10:05:05 council, simply because we are the ones that if this goes
10:05:10 forward are the ones that are changing the ordinance and
10:05:14 will be the ones that the citizens turn to.
10:05:20 So that's the way I feel about that.
10:05:34 Now, let me get to regulations.
10:05:36 An example of some of the ones that were brought forth.
10:05:39 You said the kind of establishments, the alcoholic beverage
10:05:42 code, is midnight.
10:05:44 So it would be 7 a.m. to midnight.
10:05:45 It's now 7 a.m. to 3 a.m. which is 20 hours.
10:05:50 You would allow establishments city-wide on-premises
10:05:57 consumption only restaurants, only, establishments with no
10:06:00 outdoor area, these would be the ones that are -- can be
10:06:04 We can add or subtract, the opportunity to be a reply for a
10:06:09 separate permit which does not run with the land and is not
10:06:14 as property rights, allowing closing past midnight by
10:06:18 allowing to a specific set of conditions.
10:06:21 And, three, we identify the businesses that meet the
10:06:24 criteria by as regulated businesses under chapter 6 of the
10:06:29 city code, thereby requiring the issuance of a business
10:06:32 operating permit.
10:06:34 So it separates those added hours from the conveyance veins
10:06:41 of land rights.
10:06:44 The business operating flex hours -- for instance, security
10:06:49 shall be responsible for business owners and that can be
10:06:54 required establishments to provide security inside, outside
10:06:58 the business, it could depend on the amount of people that
10:07:05 are allowed, or the crowd that is allowed in that
10:07:10 establishment, and it can be defined as police presence,
10:07:15 trained staff, security cameras, as deemed appropriate.
10:07:20 These are just some of the conditions for permit.
10:07:22 No outside amplification, parking requirements, limit the
10:07:25 number of patrons allowed inside or outside, club interior
10:07:30 or exterior, maintain clean inside outside public areas.
10:07:34 That is a -- can be a code enforcement violation, because I
10:07:39 understand that some establishments stack up boxes and cans
10:07:51 and bottles outside, and establish a non--now, this
10:07:55 non-waivable minimum distance between late nightclubs and
10:07:58 restaurants, to protect neighborhoods by separating
10:08:02 establishments that sell alcoholic beverage from residential
10:08:05 For example, 500 feet or more per club which we have there,
10:08:09 and 100 to 200 feet for restaurants.
10:08:15 This can be modified however, but they would be nonwaivable.
10:08:20 And that would allow -- allowing hotels and shopping malls
10:08:26 which have -- that exist inside the interior as opposed to
10:08:32 And there can be additional conditions for restaurants.
10:08:37 You can see this has been a lock time.
10:08:39 Maintain a full open kitchen during operating hours after
10:08:45 Limit the number of patrons to number of seating, no outside
10:08:49 amplified music, sound reducing architecture design limit on
10:08:53 the decibel level both inside and outside.
10:08:55 This is going forward to permit.
10:08:58 These are all suggestions.
10:08:59 They can be added, subtracted, and the criteria for
10:09:04 suspension as you well stated, Mrs. Kert, suspension of
10:09:10 revocation and the administrative suspension with right to
10:09:17 appeal, the criteria for suspension needs to be very, very
10:09:20 severe and not subjective, and noise violation, shooting,
10:09:27 murder, refusing inspection, gambling, minor consumption,
10:09:32 drug sales, code violations.
10:09:34 And code violations, I think, would be enforceable.
10:09:41 And then we get to the third part which is the enforcement
10:09:43 of all this.
10:09:45 And this would be -- one of the things that is effective is
10:09:51 because of the placard that was passed a couple of years ago
10:09:58 and is now in effect, with conditions.
10:10:01 It also -- it has also been implemented or will be soon
10:10:07 implemented in the laptop computers and all the law
10:10:12 enforcement autos.
10:10:14 So they will have at their fingertips all the conditions,
10:10:18 the locations of the alcoholic beverage establishments.
10:10:26 Those are just some of the things that I called from the
10:10:31 many meetings, and with all the different administrative
10:10:40 directors, and the public.
10:10:45 I would like to hear from my colleagues, and then I would
10:10:48 like to maybe make a motion to move forward to at least
10:10:55 bring something in the form of an ordinance that we can work
10:11:00 Because I have here -- as a matter of fact, I have here
10:11:04 transcripts from 2010, 2011, 2012, on this very subject.
10:11:12 And I have a notebook here from alcoholic beverage that I
10:11:16 accumulated, and that's not all of it.
10:11:19 So I think that we can move forward and make a difference in
10:11:27 this city.
10:11:28 So I would like to hear from my colleagues.
10:11:30 But those are suggestions that I gleaned.
10:11:35 Thank you.
10:11:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:11:37 Mr. Suarez?
10:11:38 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
10:11:39 Mrs. Kert?
10:11:41 You know I was going to make you get up here again.
10:11:43 A quick question on a couple things.
10:11:45 One is, if we do a business regulation, this will not affect
10:11:49 any of those establishments currently, only those that are
10:11:52 going forward.
10:11:53 Is that correct or not?
10:11:56 >>REBECCA KERT: That's not correct.
10:11:57 >>MIKE SUAREZ: How would we work that?
10:12:00 >> But I do have clarification, something that I brought up
10:12:03 in May, and did not say today.
10:12:10 You are not dealing with the same thing as the land use.
10:12:13 Every time you change your land use code, exist under the
10:12:18 rules in which they were permitted.
10:12:20 They have an interest in that.
10:12:22 Nobody has a property right in the hours of operation in
10:12:25 which they get to sell alcoholic beverages.
10:12:27 And this is a business regulation you enacted all the time,
10:12:31 recently and even those that are already existent must
10:12:36 comply with your business regulation.
10:12:37 I will say there's a caveat in that over the last several
10:12:42 years, City Council has, in their use permit, set specific
10:12:46 hours of operation, which is a nuance that most other
10:12:50 jurisdictions don't have to deal with because they don't
10:12:52 handle alcohol the way the City of Tampa does.
10:12:55 So we will have to be -- some of them have hours of
10:12:59 operation that allow them to operate until 1:00 or 2:00 and
10:13:03 those need to be analyzed separately but it's for many of
10:13:07 these alcoholic permits out there that don't have set hours
10:13:11 of operation, and if you want to say they all have to close
10:13:17 at 11 or midnight, you all have been a right to do that.
10:13:23 >> You were talking to the caveat, which during the land use
10:13:27 hearing, we have discussed about when they were going to
10:13:31 And as you know, the painful reality whenever we have a land
10:13:36 use meeting and we are talking about alcohol use, at the
10:13:39 premises, a lot of discussion goes into not only the time
10:13:44 frame, some other activities that go on at that particular
10:13:48 location, I just don't want to create a situation where we
10:13:51 are in a legal morass because we have created a business
10:13:57 regulation on top of -- an attorney may say is their right
10:14:02 already to operate at those hours.
10:14:04 And I understand what you are saying.
10:14:06 But I can see that that may come down the pike.
10:14:10 And I think I am following what your caveat is, essentially.
10:14:14 The second question I have is in terms of enforcement, we
10:14:18 can put any agency to be the enforcement arm of this
10:14:22 particular business regulation, correct?
10:14:24 Meaning that police can go in there and they can say, now
10:14:29 You are not complying with the regulation itself, correct?
10:14:35 >>REBECCA KERT: Right.
10:14:36 Different jurisdictions handle it differently.
10:14:38 St. Pete, for example, has the chief of police designated as
10:14:42 the chief to make the decision whether or not there has been
10:14:44 a violation.
10:14:46 Other jurisdictions assign it to a different entity and we
10:14:49 can determine what's appropriate within the city after
10:14:51 talking to the department.
10:14:55 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And if we put in the ordinance different set
10:14:58 of criteria -- and I think you went through it fairly well,
10:15:03 some of the things that we can do -- so we can make that
10:15:06 regulation to say if you do not meet all of the criteria as
10:15:11 opposed to one of the three or one of the five or one of the
10:15:14 seven, whatever those criteria are, we can make penalties
10:15:18 based on what they are actually meeting or not meeting at
10:15:24 that particular time, correct?
10:15:25 >> Yes.
10:15:26 >> You started to get -- I just want to make sure because I
10:15:31 know sometimes I talk in circles.
10:15:33 I'm glad that sometimes somebody stops me before I keep
10:15:40 I know that we have to do something.
10:15:42 And I think that you put a lot of Yeoman's work into
10:15:49 allowing specifics on land use and alcohol beverage sales.
10:15:54 And the frustrating thing for us on council has been -- and
10:15:57 I think continues to be -- that dichotomy between a land use
10:16:04 and an alcohol use, and as you know -- and I have mentioned
10:16:08 this to you before -- why would the police be able to come
10:16:11 up and say we have no objection to something when you told
10:16:13 us that we have no reason to listen to what the police have
10:16:16 to say, because --
10:16:19 >>REBECCA KERT: I didn't say that.
10:16:21 I did not say that.
10:16:22 >>MIKE SUAREZ: The police report that was put in there
10:16:25 doesn't have the legal weight that we thought it did when we
10:16:28 were first dealing with it.
10:16:29 And --
10:16:30 >>REBECCA KERT: It want to clarify: The special use and
10:16:39 land use, that might be the criminal past of the owner or
10:16:43 who the owner is.
10:16:45 But there are many, many things that the Tampa Police
10:16:46 Department does bring to you that I think are very relevant
10:16:49 and important.
10:16:51 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I apologize. I did not say that you said
10:16:53 that there was any problem with the Tampa PD but in terms of
10:16:56 land use it's a confusing matter because there are certain
10:16:59 circumstances in which land use is being presented to us.
10:17:02 We may have a bad actor in front of us that has flaunted the
10:17:13 rules in terms of land use and we can't using a police
10:17:16 report to use for future land use criteria.
10:17:19 And these what I meant by that.
10:17:22 Don't worry, your friends at the police department won't be
10:17:25 mad at you.
10:17:26 Thank you, chair.
10:17:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:17:27 Mr. Cohen.
10:17:28 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you very much.
10:17:33 To follow on what Councilwoman Capin and Councilman Suarez
10:17:37 were both saying, I think it's helpful to put these issues
10:17:43 into a little bit of context as far as how they come to us
10:17:48 and what our overall goal is through this idea that has been
10:17:53 brought up by the cultural assets committee, and by the
10:17:58 When we make a decision regarding an alcohol permit as part
10:18:04 of our land use process, we make a decision that is forever.
10:18:10 And we don't have the ability to hold accountable the actors
10:18:22 who we approve for the right to sell alcohol.
10:18:24 Or if we do have the ability to hold them accountable we are
10:18:29 very frustrated by how limited our ability S.sometimes you
10:18:33 approve something, it opens, and the consequences of the
10:18:38 decision might be different than what was envisioned when it
10:18:40 was talked about here in this room.
10:18:44 Once in a while the owner will change.
10:18:46 Maybe there will be multiple owners that will change.
10:18:48 And we are grasping for a mechanism with which we can exert
10:18:55 some control over this process, so when neighbors and
10:19:00 concerned citizens come to us, we have a remedy at the end.
10:19:04 And what made this proposal so intriguing at the beginning
10:19:08 was that by moving the enforcement from a land use
10:19:15 regulation to a business use, we could exert that kind of
10:19:20 control and we could take more active role in the process of
10:19:24 seeing how late some of these establishments are allowed to
10:19:29 stay open.
10:19:29 So with that in mind, I think that what I would be in
10:19:33 support of is something narrow and something simple that we
10:19:38 can start off with that perhaps will address all of the
10:19:45 issues that were raised regarding the initial permitting
10:19:47 process but will give us an ability to look squarely at this
10:19:52 business regulation proposal.
10:19:54 We will set the parameters of what the policy would be,
10:19:57 whether it would be midnight or 3 a.m. and what the details
10:20:00 around it would be, and then we would see how it would work
10:20:04 and make the judgment about whether or not it allows us some
10:20:10 further control.
10:20:11 I would be very concerned about putting enforcement under
10:20:15 the code enforcement department.
10:20:17 We have enough issues there right now that it seems to me
10:20:21 that giving this to code enforcement is not probably the
10:20:25 best way to go about it.
10:20:26 To me it's probably better to give it to the police.
10:20:32 In terms of the due process issues involved, and how the
10:20:35 violations are going to be identified and when the
10:20:39 suspension he is are going to take place, I would leave Mrs.
10:20:43 Kert to come up with some of those details and suggest them
10:20:46 to us.
10:20:46 I would not be against, at least at the beginning, having
10:20:50 the cases come to City Council, because to me it would be
10:20:53 important for us to see how what we are doing is actually
10:20:58 affecting the individual businesses, and the only way we are
10:21:01 going to do it is if it actually comes up to us.
10:21:03 So it wouldn't be opposed to doing that.
10:21:07 So that's really where I stand on it.
10:21:09 But I think that the simpler we make the initial proposal,
10:21:16 the easier it will be for us to gauge whether or not it
10:21:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Cohen.
10:21:20 Mrs. Montelione.
10:21:21 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10:21:23 I agree with Mr. Cohen except I'm not sure that we do
10:21:25 anything in a simple fashion.
10:21:30 So that terminology alone scares me.
10:21:33 We haven't heard from Mr. Pardo because I think it would be
10:21:39 important to hear directly from the YCDC because they spent
10:21:44 a great deal of time.
10:21:46 I attended some of the workshops held here with Cathy Coyle
10:21:50 and Mrs. Kert to talk about these regulations with the
10:21:52 business owners, and they were very well attended, the ones
10:21:56 that I was present at, people were business owners, club
10:22:00 owners, managers, were very Vogel, and I want to make sure
10:22:04 that those who are actually living these regulations every
10:22:10 day are being heard and being considered.
10:22:13 And some of the things that concern me, let's see, February
10:22:21 2013, YCDC board, sent along a letter with proposed changes
10:22:28 regarding nightclub as a regulated business, and which
10:22:36 letter and the proposals that I am speaking of.
10:22:38 Some of the things that I have heard that I have a
10:22:43 particular concern with and some of the things that you
10:22:44 mentioned here, I like the concept of a business operating
10:22:49 permit rather than having something run with the land.
10:22:53 I think at one of the hearings they spoke about being in DC,
10:22:57 and in our capital there were placards pasted in windows
10:23:03 that they were reapplying for their permit, and I think that
10:23:06 having a renewable permit or having clubs come back in and
10:23:11 have be to reapply gives the system a chance to evaluate
10:23:15 what kind of establishment that club owner has been running,
10:23:20 and whether or not they have been skirting the law, whether
10:23:23 they have been inside the law, whether or not they deserve
10:23:26 to have their permit renewed.
10:23:28 There were a couple of things you brought up in your letter,
10:23:31 Mr. Pardo, or the committee brought up, was how do we
10:23:34 prevent someone from having violated, and then coming back
10:23:41 and reapplying under a different name?
10:23:44 So it's something very simple, but it is something that we
10:23:47 need to think about in the language of how that is written.
10:23:53 I'm concerned about what the cost is.
10:23:55 I don't think we talked about what the application costs or
10:23:58 renewal costs or any costs associated with it.
10:24:02 Often we look for those fees to cover the costs of
10:24:06 So I would like to see something like that.
10:24:08 And being someone who sometimes is not having dinner until
10:24:15 10:00 or 11:00 at night, I am not in favor of a midnight
10:24:19 closing or a midnight cut-off because I'm not finishing
10:24:22 dinner sometimes until midnight.
10:24:24 And going out until then.
10:24:30 I may not be the youngest member of council but I think I
10:24:32 might be the night owl of the group.
10:24:36 And it came to me during the RNC that Councilman Cohen, you
10:24:41 know, walked off the dais.
10:24:44 I'm sure he's back watching the TV.
10:24:46 But he made a special motion for clubs or restaurants that
10:24:54 used to stay open later because of the activities that were
10:24:57 taking place in our city.
10:24:58 And we host many events.
10:25:01 And I don't want to have someone bring up the fact that we
10:25:05 need to extend our business operating hours every time we
10:25:08 have a large event, because it's getting to the point which
10:25:11 is a great and wonderful problem to have.
10:25:15 There are so many things going on in the city these days
10:25:17 that it's hard to keep track of sometimes.
10:25:19 So I hesitate to put restrictions.
10:25:26 I think it's been said before by Mrs. Kert that there's only
10:25:29 a couple of hours that we seem to have difficulty with
10:25:32 serving alcohol.
10:25:35 So those are some of the concerns I have.
10:25:37 So if you could elaborate on what the YCDC recommended
10:25:41 changes were, I would appreciate that, Mr. Pardo.
10:25:46 >>VINCE PARDO: Thank you.
10:25:51 Ybor City Development Corporation, City of Tampa.
10:25:53 I appreciate the YCDC recommendations.
10:25:56 That means that the community board that you appointed as
10:25:59 special advisory group on anything regarding Ybor City.
10:26:02 We have -- there are obviously a lot of areas in the City of
10:26:05 Tampa, but I probably have in my CRA the highest
10:26:10 concentration of wet zonings of any place in the City of
10:26:13 Tampa, even Hillsborough County, and a lot of things that
10:26:16 surface as, quote, problems, because of that concentration.
10:26:21 We are just changing somewhat, that we have got several
10:26:24 bars, nightclubs now that are converting back into
10:26:27 restaurants, and the trend is starting to occur.
10:26:31 The recommendations you have from YCDC is narrow.
10:26:34 And we looked at things, neighborhood associations, it's
10:26:42 pretty broad.
10:26:45 It's almost like a town council, if you will, restaurants,
10:26:49 museum, societies, chambers.
10:26:53 We all agree on one thing, and that is that not every wet
10:26:57 zone is causing a problem.
10:27:00 Ybor City has problems at closing times particularly.
10:27:02 So 12, probably 1:00, 3:30 in the morning, and places that
10:27:10 are nightclubs.
10:27:11 How do we dough fine nightclubs?
10:27:13 We define it very narrowly.
10:27:20 The Irish club before that.
10:27:21 Richard is an example where he can stand behind the bar in
10:27:26 his location, little pub, and see all four corners of his
10:27:30 If you take a club multilevel, five levels, stairwells,
10:27:40 elevators, they have 60 employees on any given night.
10:27:43 In fact watching, serving, security, during this time frame.
10:27:47 So we tried to be narrow, as far as -- what are our
10:27:53 Was it 21 and up?
10:27:55 The staff at TPD has provided to us shows underage drinking
10:28:00 in the club is not a problem any longer.
10:28:03 We are monitoring the parking lots because the operators,
10:28:06 TPD, and all are monitoring what is happening in the clubs.
10:28:11 So we try to look at where are our problems?
10:28:14 Where are our highest risks?
10:28:16 Let me put it that way.
10:28:18 Where are the establishments?
10:28:20 And again night clubs came up again.
10:28:21 So we tried to identify a place that will serve alcohol, to
10:28:24 allow people as early as -- as young as 18, could be 21 as
10:28:31 It's not just 18 and up.
10:28:33 It could be 21 and above.
10:28:37 As much as 18 years of age, that does not serve food along
10:28:41 with their operating hours, and has a capacity of 250 or
10:28:49 more, and that is regulated by the fire marshal so it is
10:28:55 narrow, but it was narrow specifically for Ybor City in
10:28:59 consideration, and how it applies particularly to the City
10:29:03 of Tampa, because with the frustration that we do in the
10:29:06 community as staff, is coming up with something, and coming
10:29:11 up with Code Enforcement Board, because we are obviously
10:29:14 going after the property owner who may not be a problem at
10:29:17 So it's coming up with business operating permits for this
10:29:22 narrowly defined alcohol-serving entity called a nightclub,
10:29:26 and that allows us to deal with strictly operator of the
10:29:31 space, not the owner of the space at all.
10:29:34 Walter is here, current vice chairman. YCDC board,
10:29:37 chairman-elect, and he's a property owner.
10:29:39 He owns a building that you probably know the restaurant on
10:29:45 the bottom floor, has executive suites in his officeups
10:29:50 upstairs and a retail shop on the side.
10:29:52 He owns the entire building.
10:29:57 But we want to the go after the operator.
10:30:02 Going of a after the people and the land use site.
10:30:11 City Council currently allows us to attach a particular use
10:30:15 to this thing in chapter 6 and say we have a tool here, we
10:30:21 can answer to the community and be more responsive when we
10:30:24 have a problem.
10:30:26 Mrs. Capin, I talked at length about the operating hours.
10:30:29 And that's the issue particularly stay away from hours
10:30:35 because I would venture to say that 99% of the wet zones,
10:30:39 special use permits in Ybor City, have operating hours tied
10:30:42 to it.
10:30:43 And if the council would change every one of those
10:30:47 ordinances, change the operating hours.
10:30:50 To look at it as far as sanction?
10:30:54 Was it something that we thought should be on the ground
10:30:56 floor because of these ordinances? No.
10:30:58 And that's why again, coming up with sanctions.
10:31:02 We had a discussion about officers, those are things that
10:31:07 when I think we can apply to the business operating permit
10:31:10 and state away from the land use altogether.
10:31:13 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
10:31:15 Mrs. Kert, there was a lot of information that has been
10:31:18 given over a very long period of time, and even in just the
10:31:26 discussion today, it is very confusing, at least to me, to
10:31:29 copy track of the board and everything that you spoke about.
10:31:41 I know that Mrs. Capin subpoena making a motion for to you
10:31:45 come back with an ordinance, but, you know, I either need to
10:31:50 spend some more quality time with you discussing this, or I
10:31:54 think this would be helpful to everyone if we had some kind
10:31:56 of matrix that set out, this is what's being proposed, these
10:32:03 are the remedies or the sanctions that Mr. Pardo discussed,
10:32:08 and have some sort of flow chart to see, this is how you
10:32:14 apply, this is what happens if you violate, here are some of
10:32:20 the ifs ands if this happens, and then this is the
10:32:24 consequence, that kind of information, because -- and Mr.
10:32:30 Cohen again mentioned narrow and simple.
10:32:34 But I would love to keep it narrow and simple but I'm not
10:32:37 sure we can actually do that.
10:32:41 I would like to see something a little stated and very clear
10:32:45 and concise terms, in fact, like I said, in the form of a
10:32:51 chart, a flow chart or something like that.
10:32:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:32:56 Mrs. Capin?
10:32:58 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
10:32:59 A lot of good information.
10:33:02 Here we have -- in order to move forward, I do believe we
10:33:09 need to move forward with an ordinance.
10:33:18 At least the design of an ordinance to come back to us,
10:33:21 because we can talk about this, and we have talked about
10:33:23 this for years.
10:33:28 Changing the code to midnight, that would allow -- and what
10:33:37 we have here is three areas.
10:33:40 We have existing hours which are stated on the site plan.
10:33:51 Unless they want to change it, those are what they are.
10:33:53 Then we have the establishments that are under code which is
10:33:56 7 a.m. to 3 a.m.
10:33:58 Those would comply to the midnight, and they would come for
10:34:03 a permit to extend hours.
10:34:06 I can see that being done in a very -- allowing those
10:34:13 establishments that have already been doing business under
10:34:15 the code at 3 a.m. to continue to do that.
10:34:19 And here is the caveat, that the permits that they are
10:34:23 coming in for, they can go up to 4 a.m., and I would suggest
10:34:27 an hour longer.
10:34:30 Because they have agreed to conditions with, for the same
10:34:36 way it's easier for them to continue, it is also easier for
10:34:40 us to regulate.
10:34:44 That is the caveat.
10:34:46 Now, and in the future, that's the third category.
10:34:52 Will all be a midnight code, and they may apply for a permit
10:34:57 up to 4 a.m.
10:35:02 If they meet the criteria and agree to conditions, what
10:35:04 those criteria are and the conditions are, law enforcement,
10:35:08 code enforcement, and our legal, all have gotten together.
10:35:16 They have discussed about this.
10:35:18 There are many different ways of putting this together.
10:35:21 Now, as far as law enforcement being the entity that calls
10:35:31 the suspension, or code enforcement, I think it's both.
10:35:34 And both report and funnel to an entity, whatever that may
10:35:40 be, whatever we design or decide that to be.
10:35:45 So it's either law enforcement or code enforcement.
10:35:48 It's both of them that cause the suspension.
10:35:54 When that suspension is called, they are under suspension,
10:35:57 and they have a certain amount of time to appeal.
10:36:04 That time again determined by law, by our legal, and by
10:36:08 ourselves, and at that point, if they have an appeal, the
10:36:13 time that they have been suspended, whether ten days or two
10:36:18 weeks, and they come before us, and we hold up the
10:36:24 suspension, that time that they have been suspended does not
10:36:29 go towards their 30 days.
10:36:32 It's not like time served; if you will.
10:36:37 Those are some of the parameters that I have thought of.
10:36:43 The other is -- I have it circled here.
10:36:48 Just a second.
10:36:49 Again the conditions are not severable.
10:36:53 And limiting the distance, looking at all the different
10:36:58 We have a lot of criteria for administrative permitting.
10:37:04 Those can be applied.
10:37:07 The suspension criteria that has to be very clear, not
10:37:11 I think was also gleaned from the YCDC, the constituents,
10:37:20 the business owners.
10:37:23 So those are just, again -- I'm sorry, suggestions.
10:37:29 And as far as enforcement, we have that mechanism in place.
10:37:35 So I felt comfortable moving forward to look at very
10:37:42 seriously our code, changing our code to midnight, and then
10:37:49 adding a business permitting to add additional hours with
10:37:55 conditions and criteria.
10:38:00 With that said, I would like to move for legal to come back
10:38:05 to us with an ordinance.
10:38:08 But I would like our two council members to come back.
10:38:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, I haven't spoken yet.
10:38:13 Let me say this.
10:38:17 This is just the start of why people don't trust government.
10:38:22 You see, earlier today you had the violation of the red
10:38:24 lights and taking the cameras and this, that and the other.
10:38:28 But when you get caught, it doesn't go on your ticket if you
10:38:33 It's all about money.
10:38:34 If you pay, nothing is on your ticket.
10:38:38 That sound real easy.
10:38:42 What if somebody gets hurt, somebody gets killed because you
10:38:44 run the red light?
10:38:46 Number one.
10:38:47 Number two, you get a speeding ticket.
10:38:51 If you pay and go to driving school, I guess, you don't get
10:38:54 no points.
10:38:56 That's nice.
10:38:57 That's the way it is.
10:38:59 So instead of governing, we are pacifying.
10:39:03 Here, you already have the right to do it what you can do up
10:39:06 to 3:00 in the morning.
10:39:07 We have the right to change the rules.
10:39:10 However, in order to change the rules, we are going to tell
10:39:15 you, we are going to give you extended hours: It from what
10:39:20 I heard earlier, and I had wrote this down here, I believe
10:39:26 our attorney said earlier real quickly when making the
10:39:29 presentation, 4:00 in the morning.
10:39:33 4:00 in the morning real quick.
10:39:35 So that means that if you go by this, you can still go to 4,
10:39:40 I guess, or maybe even later if you can change that.
10:39:43 This council or other councils can change that.
10:39:46 One day you are going to see if we start messing with this
10:39:50 and changing these rules, alcohol 24 hours a day.
10:39:57 Whether it's good or bad, maybe you are driving, you are the
10:40:02 one that got hit.
10:40:03 So these are the things that you have to look at and take a
10:40:11 stand, about alcohol in residential areas.
10:40:15 The legislature says the same thing.
10:40:18 They can go anywhere they want.
10:40:20 That's nice.
10:40:21 I would like tock see some mobile homes on Davis Island,
10:40:24 Harbor Island, and Bayshore Boulevard.
10:40:27 Then maybe we'll find out who wrote the law.
10:40:31 But these are the things that keep coming down, and they
10:40:33 seem so simple, but they are not.
10:40:37 Everything we do today has a consequence for tomorrow.
10:40:44 Tomorrow is just hours away.
10:40:47 So these are the things that you have to consider when you
10:40:49 cast a vote very innocently for something that's going to
10:40:53 I'm not against change.
10:40:55 But those individuals that have the privilege, because it's
10:40:58 not a right to have a liquor license, it is a privilege that
10:41:04 you are governed by a government agency to do that.
10:41:06 Yes, you have a lot of regulations.
10:41:09 And rightly so.
10:41:11 These are the things that become sometimes troubling to me,
10:41:16 and throat wrenching and hard to swallow, because at the end
10:41:21 of the day, for doing what they are supposed to do, they get
10:41:25 an additional hour.
10:41:26 They get an additional two hours.
10:41:28 They get an additional 12 hours.
10:41:30 I don't know.
10:41:32 From what I gather, from what I heard today, that's what the
10:41:37 extension of this is all about.
10:41:39 Yes, they have to meet a certain criteria. But even if you
10:41:42 are found in violation of those rules, in essence, it's all
10:41:47 about money.
10:41:49 You go and you do the same thing you do with a traffic
10:41:51 signal, in a way, still can operate.
10:41:54 It's about money.
10:41:58 It's about governing.
10:42:01 Forget about money.
10:42:02 If we violate the law, take the traffic signal, pass the
10:42:06 law, put points on it.
10:42:07 But you have to pay.
10:42:08 And you never forget.
10:42:09 And you never do another one.
10:42:11 But we don't do that.
10:42:13 We don't govern no more.
10:42:14 We just pacify.
10:42:16 And that's is what this is all about.
10:42:20 In a different way, but the results will be the same.
10:42:23 So what I am saying is, understand what we vote on, because
10:42:29 it seems so good for the public.
10:42:33 Rough to take those individuals who maybe should have never
10:42:36 been in, allowed in, and guess.
10:42:39 What you can do that now without giving any amended hours.
10:42:44 You can do everything that's said without one more extended
10:42:49 Think about resources.
10:42:50 Who is going to do the extra hours?
10:42:54 Our police department is already strung out.
10:42:56 Our police department is doing a fantastic job.
10:42:59 Our police department is doing all they can to make sure
10:43:03 that the livelihood and safety of this city is well
10:43:07 protected, and results have shown we reduction of crime over
10:43:11 65% the last ten years.
10:43:16 How much more are you going to work them?
10:43:19 An extra hour there somewhere something else could be
10:43:21 happening in another part of the city.
10:43:23 And very few police officers there.
10:43:27 At what point do we say enough is enough?
10:43:32 Whether we keep riding the wave.
10:43:34 Sometimes even surfers can't ride the wave because the wave
10:43:39 becomes too big.
10:43:40 Ed and that's exactly what's happened to us in code
10:43:44 The volume becomes too big.
10:43:46 The backlog becomes enormous.
10:43:48 And we have to fix that.
10:43:50 That's why understood these conditions, and without a
10:43:54 matrix, like it was brought up earlier, although I like the
10:43:58 first part, I don't like the results at the end.
10:44:02 I will not be supporting this.
10:44:05 I yield to whoever wants the floor, who has not spoken
10:44:09 It goes in order.
10:44:11 Suarez, Mulhern, Montelione, Cohen.
10:44:15 Mr. Reddick has first call because he hasn't spoken at all.
10:44:17 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Chair, I apologize.
10:44:20 I spoke out.
10:44:21 I don't know if the motion is on the floor.
10:44:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right, there was a discussion of the
10:44:25 There was a motion made directly but there was no second.
10:44:29 There will be, I'm sure.
10:44:30 Mr. Reddick?
10:44:32 You don't want to the speak on that?
10:44:34 I got Mrs. Mulhern, Mr. Suarez, Mr. Cohen, and Mrs.
10:44:37 Montelione if they care to speak.
10:44:40 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll support a motion with some changes, or
10:44:48 with some specifications P.I would like to hear from Mrs.
10:44:52 Kert about the 4 a.m. thing.
10:44:54 I missed that entirely, if that was in there.
10:44:58 But I would want to support increasing the number of hours
10:45:04 to 4 a.m.
10:45:06 But I would support the enforcement of this new limitation
10:45:14 with whatever recommendations we agree on from legal and TPD
10:45:19 and code enforcement.
10:45:21 But would you speak to that 4 a.m.?
10:45:26 >>REBECCA KERT: I can't speak to 4 a.m.
10:45:28 There were a number of points that need to be made.
10:45:31 One of them is how you go to 3 a.m.
10:45:33 So if you are going to have a late night permit you then
10:45:36 need to change that hour to something earlier.
10:45:38 What is that hour?
10:45:40 I said midnight for purposes of discussion.
10:45:42 And then you can extend it to -- if you have a late night
10:45:46 permit there has to be some time in there between what is
10:45:48 the rule and what is the permitted time.
10:45:51 And 4 a.m --
10:45:55 >>MARY MULHERN: 4 a.m., 3 a.m., which is --
10:45:58 >>REBECCA KERT: There is no legal reason why you cannot
10:46:01 leave it at 3 a.m.
10:46:02 The argument for having 4 a.m. would be an incentive for
10:46:05 those who currently have their hours regulated through a
10:46:09 special use permit and would not have to close at midnight
10:46:12 and not be subject to this.
10:46:14 They have no incentive to come in.
10:46:16 But that's a policy decision for -- you could leave it 3
10:46:22 I wasn't trying to push the 4.
10:46:24 I was just giving an example.
10:46:26 >>MARY MULHERN: That's an option.
10:46:27 Well, I would support it if we left it at 3 a.m. and have
10:46:30 the early hours at midnight.
10:46:34 The closing time be midnight.
10:46:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez, if you want the floor.
10:46:39 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair.
10:46:41 Mrs. Kert, you know, there's been a lot of discussion at
10:46:44 different hours and everything else.
10:46:46 I think originally we had talked about, you know, that all
10:46:50 permitted uses would be midnight and then they would have to
10:46:56 apply after midnight to a particular time frame and that's
10:46:59 where the business regulation would go.
10:47:01 If I recall all of the discussions that we had over the
10:47:03 course of time.
10:47:04 Is that correct?
10:47:05 Isn't that what we were talking about before?
10:47:08 >> Yes.
10:47:08 >> That's just one thing we were talking about.
10:47:11 You know, I think that we need to do something on the
10:47:16 business regulation side, and we need to find a way to solve
10:47:19 a lot of the problems that we have, if we are mixing land
10:47:24 use with what is essentially a business use, and we just
10:47:27 have not ever organized it that way.
10:47:30 And I know that -- and I can't speak for all my colleagues,
10:47:33 but I know that some of my colleagues are just as frustrated
10:47:36 as I am when dealing with land use and then dealing with
10:47:39 liquor -- excuse me, business use kind of regulations within
10:47:44 land use.
10:47:46 That's what's kind of difficult for us.
10:47:47 I would also -- and when we start doing motions, suggest
10:47:50 that come up with a list of those properties that are going
10:47:55 to be affected that are already under their site plan, allow
10:48:04 I want people to have a sense of the regulation would be for
10:48:08 those particular entities and how the process would work as
10:48:13 per the ordinance.
10:48:13 That might be something that we'll talk about, and I'll make
10:48:16 a motion after the discussion is over.
10:48:17 Thank you, chair.
10:48:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:48:20 Mr. Cohen, the floor?
10:48:22 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10:48:25 From listening to whatever everyone had to say that there
10:48:28 are parts of this that have support, and there are parts of
10:48:31 this that do not have support at this time.
10:48:34 And I think it to a great degree it's a reflection. Fact
10:48:37 that even though this idea was put out there some time ago,
10:48:41 this is really the first large discussion that we had of
10:48:45 what is a multi-faceted and complex issue.
10:48:49 So the first thing I would ask of everyone is that in
10:48:53 whatever type of motion we contemplate, we bring something
10:48:56 back that is going to be for discussion purposes, even if
10:49:00 it's an ordinance that is something that we have the ability
10:49:04 to understand and talk about.
10:49:08 Councilwoman Montelione talked about a matrix.
10:49:10 I think that's a great idea, because the fact of the matter
10:49:14 is there are so many different directions to these types of
10:49:17 decisions that go in that we have to have a full
10:49:20 understanding of what the consequences of each action will
10:49:24 I also agree with Councilwoman Mulhern and others.
10:49:31 I probably don't agree with Councilwoman Montelione on this.
10:49:33 I think that we should not use this as an opportunity to
10:49:38 open the door past 3 a.m.
10:49:40 I understand that I made a motion for the special occasion
10:49:44 of the Republican national convention to keep things open
10:49:47 later, and it's not to say that on another special occasions
10:49:51 we continue do the same thing.
10:49:53 But I think for the purposes of this discussion, I think if
10:49:56 we start extending beyond 3 a.m. we are going to open up an
10:49:59 entirely different discussion that is going to end up really
10:50:04 bogging down this process.
10:50:07 So I guess that where I am coming out is I would really hope
10:50:10 that whatever can come back can be a basis for discussion.
10:50:15 And my plea for something narrow is simply in order to try
10:50:22 that, inform the parameters of the discussion, so that we
10:50:25 don't end up biting off so much more than we can chew that
10:50:29 we just get bogged down in the details and unable to move
10:50:32 Anything we do, we can always tweak later.
10:50:36 Once we see how something might work.
10:50:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Montelione?
10:50:43 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10:50:45 I don't have a problem with 3 a.m.
10:50:46 And when I referred to Mr. Cohen's motion about the RNC
10:50:53 opened late, you know, having establishments open late, it
10:50:58 wasn't past 3 a.m.
10:51:00 It's just that there are restrictions now in place that if
10:51:04 we are going to run a city that caters to young
10:51:06 professionals who work on a -- in a 24 hour world -- I am
10:51:15 working on a project now where I have a programmer who is
10:51:17 going to be working during the date, he's going to turn the
10:51:19 project over when he goes to bed at night to folks in Napal
10:51:24 who are going to work and do their coding overnight, so when
10:51:27 he gets back up in the morning he picks up where they left
10:51:30 off, and they are fast tracking a project that would
10:51:35 normally take three or four months to be do and they are
10:51:39 going to do it in probably four weeks because they are
10:51:41 running a 24-hour operation.
10:51:45 So we have young professionals who -- I don't know that
10:51:52 anyone here in the room right now represents the number of
10:51:59 individuals that we are courting, the graduates at major
10:52:04 universities that we hope to stay here or move back here if
10:52:07 they attended college somewhere else to work here.
10:52:11 We want a vibrant city, and because all of these regulations
10:52:15 came up out of what Mr. Pardo talked about, a small number
10:52:20 of irresponsible club owners, I don't want the rest of the
10:52:24 responsible club owners or the public being restricted from
10:52:31 what they can and cannot do because we have a handful of
10:52:38 irresponsible club owners our community.
10:52:39 I think that the discussion has gone far afield from where
10:52:43 we started off.
10:52:46 As I said before, I am not going to really support anything
10:52:50 today without seeing that matrix and seeing what we are
10:52:54 actually going to be putting in place, because rate now I
10:52:57 don't understand what we are putting in place.
10:52:59 And I think it's way too complicated an issue to just
10:53:02 verbally receive a report, with the information that's been
10:53:07 discussed over a period of, I don't know, two years, three
10:53:12 years now, two and a half since we have been on council, and
10:53:19 I may have it in my backup materials, but I am not sure that
10:53:24 I have seen a full report from the cultural assets and
10:53:28 economic competitiveness committee on what they are
10:53:32 I have seen the recommendations from the YCDC, but I don't
10:53:36 know that I have actually seen it on paper the other
10:53:42 recommendations that are being made.
10:53:44 So I am going to really be here to make sure we are not
10:53:53 making things so restrictive that, you know, it becomes
10:53:58 onerous not only on the property owners, but the restaurant
10:54:04 and nightclub operators, and the general public, and we have
10:54:11 so many events going on.
10:54:13 I mean, it boggles the mind that we have come so far, in
10:54:19 this almost 30 years that I have lived here, from not having
10:54:23 a chance of being run over on Ashley street at 6:30 in the
10:54:27 evening when I first moved here to now having an event every
10:54:31 single day of the week, and sometimes 4 or 5 on the weekends
10:54:39 going on simultaneously.
10:54:40 So, you know, I really need to see what we are talking about
10:54:47 in black and white, in very simple terms before I support
10:54:51 Thank you.
10:54:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:54:52 Mr. Reddick?
10:54:53 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10:55:04 We have been talking about this for the last 45 minutes, but
10:55:07 I feel it necessary to say something at this point.
10:55:13 As long as we are here on this earth, there is going to be
10:55:23 No matter where we are going there are going to be some
10:55:26 There are going some good ones and some bad ones.
10:55:30 There are going to be clubs that take full responsibility
10:55:32 for their patrons and there are going to be some who will
10:55:35 not even have security people to protect the patrons.
10:55:40 That is common.
10:55:41 When I look at the problems that is going on in Ybor City,
10:55:47 most of them are not inside the clubs.
10:55:51 They are away from the clubs, down on the street, around the
10:55:54 corner, in the parking lot, and in different areas.
10:55:58 They are not inside the clubs.
10:56:00 We have a few of them that had problems.
10:56:05 You know, we are trying to put a lot of restriction on
10:56:10 people who invest a lot of money to operate their facility
10:56:14 and make a decent living for their family.
10:56:17 And we are trying to act like we are regulating.
10:56:30 These are business owners.
10:56:31 These are people who have legitimate businesses, and we
10:56:37 can't just put these people out of business.
10:56:41 And does anyone want to be out there at 3 a.m.?
10:56:47 We have law enforcement out there.
10:56:52 And, you know, there's an old saying that anything after 12
10:56:56 is not good anyway.
10:56:59 But for those who are out there, there's good, and that's
10:57:07 one of the things that I will support, if we had business
10:57:10 regulations, and somebody violates our city code, our city
10:57:15 ordinances, then we should be able to punish these people as
10:57:21 they come before council.
10:57:24 But we can't put these out of business.
10:57:31 Unless they have violated a code infraction.
10:57:36 And so, you know, had I will support, number one, the 3:00.
10:57:49 I will support putting any type of factions on a club owner
10:57:54 to make sure they are staying in compliance.
10:57:56 But people, we are making this process more difficult than
10:58:00 it needs to be.
10:58:03 These are simple solutions.
10:58:07 And keep in mind, this is a city.
10:58:11 This is a growing city.
10:58:12 This is a vibrant city.
10:58:21 Young folks are not going to stay in the house.
10:58:25 What do you want, confine them to the house?
10:58:31 Because telling them they can't go out and they can't do
10:58:34 this, you are going to confine them to the house?
10:58:36 They aren't going to stay in the house.
10:58:38 These people are young, energetic, want to get out, have a
10:58:41 good time, meeting with friends, and that is fine.
10:58:44 That is fine.
10:58:45 But they have to do it under certain codes and conditions
10:58:48 than we set forth as a government body.
10:58:51 And so I agree with Mr. Cohen, make it as simple as
10:58:59 possible, and then come back.
10:59:02 We can always do that.
10:59:04 But people, keep in mind, you can't run these people out of
10:59:08 this city.
10:59:08 We are going to people -- run people away from the city?
10:59:15 Going to all these other places?
10:59:18 Well, you are going to put them on a bus so they are going
10:59:21 to leave.
10:59:21 And we come up with all these restrictions.
10:59:25 And that's what I'm hearing.
10:59:27 So I support anything, Mr. Chair, and we can come back and
10:59:37 discuss these conditions and let us move this thing forward.
10:59:39 Thank you.
10:59:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Reddick.
10:59:41 And Carolina is so confused they had to name one north and
10:59:46 one south.
10:59:47 Mrs. Capin?
10:59:50 >>YVONNE CAPIN: That's what I hear, it got more complicated
10:59:52 than it is.
10:59:53 It's very simple.
10:59:54 It's a code change to midnight.
10:59:56 It's a business permit to extend hours.
11:00:00 That's real simple.
11:00:01 And how that can drive business away.
11:00:04 The reason for the 4 a.m. was maybe to incentivize the
11:00:11 existing businesses that are on the site plan to move on to
11:00:17 comply with the conditions that would be permitted after
11:00:22 Otherwise, there is an incentive for them.
11:00:28 3 a.m. is okay with me.
11:00:29 That's the reason for 4 a.m.
11:00:33 Because if your neighbor in the future has 4 a.m., and you
11:00:37 need to compete, you may change your hours to 4 a.m., and
11:00:41 come under the umbrella of midnight and the conditions.
11:00:48 That's the reason for 4 a.m.
11:00:50 Also, the reason for 4 a.m. is that Tampa same way it is
11:00:55 easier to get that permit for 4 a.m., it is easier to
11:01:00 be have a suspension of those bad actors which we have found
11:01:06 we don't have.
11:01:07 We have a situation here last year of an extremely bad
11:01:11 actor, extremely bad, and we were all ready to just throw
11:01:17 the book at him.
11:01:18 And you know what? We couldn't.
11:01:21 We couldn't.
11:01:24 And when you talk about bad actors, you are incentivizing
11:01:32 the people that follow the rules get a lot more leeway.
11:01:38 They don't follow the rules.
11:01:40 They will be suspended.
11:01:43 It's really simple.
11:01:45 So that was the 4 a.m.
11:01:47 But if you are happy with keeping the existing businesses
11:01:51 that have their hours on-site plan to 3 a.m., that's fine.
11:01:56 But that is the reason.
11:01:59 And as far as law enforcement being out there one extra
11:02:02 hour, that's not true.
11:02:05 It's absolutely not true.
11:02:07 They go out at 3 a.m. to those areas where there's
11:02:11 concentration of clubs at 3 a.m.
11:02:14 The difference being they go out at 4 a.m., and they are out
11:02:17 there about an hour directing traffic.
11:02:19 That's what they do.
11:02:20 But moving it that way -- but it can be 3 a.m.
11:02:24 Whatever it is, it's a business permit, and it can be
11:02:31 The business can be suspended.
11:02:33 It does not go to the owner of the building, of the land.
11:02:43 It goes to the -- it goes with the business.
11:02:48 How that works out is that 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, what
11:02:52 the conditions, what the criteria is, that is -- and as far
11:02:57 as the cultural assets, if you look at the transcript of May
11:03:00 23rd, it pretty much tells you exactly what the cultural
11:03:04 assets recommended, because that's what cultural assets
11:03:07 committee does.
11:03:08 Our cultural assets committee comes to City Council twice a
11:03:11 year with recommendations for legislation in order to
11:03:15 enhance our cultural assets.
11:03:18 And when we first got this, people were -- and we brought
11:03:23 this out as a cultural asset, people were taken aback by
11:03:27 extending hours.
11:03:28 But when they realized that because of that, you would
11:03:32 actually be able to capture some of those that are on-site
11:03:36 plans, which do not have to change their hours or do not
11:03:41 have to comply with the new rules, then they understood the
11:03:48 So I am going to go ahead and make the motion to change our
11:03:58 code, our city code hours to midnight for alcoholic beverage
11:04:06 permitting, and add to that a business permitting of
11:04:13 extended or, if you will, flex hours, being at 3 a.m., and
11:04:24 all future businesses will come under this code, all
11:04:30 existing businesses that are not listed hours on-site plan
11:04:33 will be under this code, and, of course, Rebecca, I need
11:04:42 something here.
11:04:47 On the businesses that have their hours of operation on-site
11:04:51 plan, will they be complying with -- will they have to
11:04:55 comply with the new conditions?
11:04:59 We cannot bring them back to midnight?
11:05:02 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes, it goes -- some of them are required
11:05:06 to close at 1:30.
11:05:07 They would not be able to take the benefit of 4 a.m. because
11:05:09 the City Council has determined that they --
11:05:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You said 3 a.m.
11:05:18 Clarify that.
11:05:18 >> 3 a.m.
11:05:23 Incentive to 3 a.m.
11:05:26 >> Okay.
11:05:28 They would not be open till 3 a.m.
11:05:30 And those that have hours to 3 a.m., we would not be able to
11:05:35 require them to close at midnight.
11:05:36 So it would not be under the midnight closing or the --
11:05:43 >> So I do not need to address that in this motion.
11:05:49 How is that for a simple motion?
11:05:51 We change the code to midnight.
11:05:53 Business permitting for extended or flex hours.
11:06:06 Under section 6.
11:06:08 Is it section 6 is the business permitting?
11:06:15 Chapter 6, I'm sorry.
11:06:16 Thank you.
11:06:16 Under chapter 6.
11:06:18 And this to come back December the 5th -- I was going to
11:06:25 extend it to January, but seeing as this is ongoing and may
11:06:28 be tweaked at that time, to come back December the 5th
11:06:34 with the parameters of the criteria and the conditions in
11:06:40 that ordinance.
11:06:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Do we have a second?
11:06:46 Motion by Mrs. Capin, seconded by Mr. Suarez.
11:06:48 Further discussion by council members?
11:06:49 Mr. Cohen?
11:06:51 >>HARRY COHEN: May I ask for a friendly amendment?
11:06:53 And that is that when it comes back, it comes back as a
11:06:57 staff report so that we can question it and actually tweak
11:07:05 the different provisions in it during our discussion rather
11:07:10 than add a first reading.
11:07:14 I guess if we were able to agree on language it could become
11:07:18 a first reading.
11:07:19 But I would like it to come back as a staff report for
11:07:22 continued discussion.
11:07:26 >>YVONNE CAPIN: If it came back as an ordinance it still
11:07:28 could be discussed and still could be changed.
11:07:30 >>HARRY COHEN: It could, but I'm just attempting to give
11:07:36 the council the opportunity to be discuss provisions and
11:07:40 make sure that we are all comfortable with the different
11:07:42 policy provisions.
11:07:46 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Wouldn't we be able to discuss that when it
11:07:48 came back?
11:07:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Be able to discuss that in the first
11:07:54 You get it a week or so.
11:07:56 In my opinion, draft it, bring it back, you are going to
11:07:58 have from whenever they bring it back to December, whatever
11:08:02 the date was, to review it.
11:08:04 So I think you have ample time if it's brought back to first
11:08:08 reading with the mate recollections, I believe, that might
11:08:10 be so that they can understand -- all of us can understand,
11:08:14 the public can understand where we are at, where we are, and
11:08:17 where you are going, and that way it's fully understood all
11:08:21 the way across the board, all the parameters that will be
11:08:24 discussed and no one can say we didn't do our due diligence.
11:08:27 >>HARRY COHEN: That's fine.
11:08:36 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Then we leave it as it is.
11:08:37 And include that matrix.
11:08:39 That's my motion.
11:08:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Capin.
11:08:43 Second by Mr. Suarez.
11:08:45 A friendly motion doesn't appear too friendly right now.
11:08:50 I'm only joking, Mr. Cohen.
11:08:52 If you want to continue, let me say this. I know certain
11:08:55 council members and myself included have a commitment before
11:08:58 We would like to finish this and finish others so the
11:09:01 general public can understand, we go to be recess and come
11:09:04 back for the regular transportation, finance and so forth
11:09:08 that we do.
11:09:09 So Mrs. Montelione, tough floor.
11:09:11 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you, sir.
11:09:16 I agree with Mr. Cohen.
11:09:18 I am not going to support an ordinance on first reading to
11:09:20 come back on December 5th.
11:09:22 You know, I will support it coming back as a staff report.
11:09:26 But I am not going to support an ordinance on first reading
11:09:29 because, you know, we can discuss it.
11:09:32 Yes, we have the right to discuss it.
11:09:33 We discuss a lot of ordinances on first reading.
11:09:36 But it's still a first reading.
11:09:38 And it's still one step closer than I want to be.
11:09:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand.
11:09:44 Anyone else?
11:09:47 All right.
11:09:47 We will vote on the motion on the floor.
11:09:49 And go back.
11:09:51 And the motion is exactly at 3:00, the last I believe it
11:09:56 was, and the matrix and everything else.
11:09:58 So I'll take the motion now.
11:10:00 All in favor of the motion made by Mrs. Capin, seconded by
11:10:03 Mr. Suarez, please indicate by saying aye.
11:10:05 Opposed nay.
11:10:10 Voice vote.
11:10:11 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Yes.
11:10:14 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
11:10:14 >>FRANK REDDICK: No.
11:10:18 >>MARY MULHERN:
11:10:19 >>HARRY COHEN: Yes.
11:10:21 >>LISA MONTELIONE: No.
11:10:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
11:10:23 >>THE CLERK: 4 to 3 with Reddick --
11:10:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 5 to 2.
11:10:32 Reddick and Montelione, the R&M team.
11:10:37 >>THE CLERK: Passes with Reddick and Montelione voting no.
11:10:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Correct.
11:10:44 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I want to make one other motion.
11:10:46 If I could ask under staff reports on the same date, I think
11:10:49 it was December 5th at 10 a.m., that Mrs. Kert come back
11:10:52 and give us those entities that would be affected by a new
11:10:58 change that has already had land use on their site plan
11:11:04 allowed for their type of operation, how many there are,
11:11:09 that will be affected according to --
11:11:15 >>REBECCA KERT: I'm happy to do that.
11:11:16 I will say that in looking at this, that is one of the
11:11:20 things that we acknowledged.
11:11:22 We obviously, number one have, to do.
11:11:24 But it will be a project.
11:11:28 But we will -- we will bring it back and tell you where we
11:11:32 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I want to make sure that those who reapply
11:11:40 for that time that we know how many there are and how much
11:11:41 time it's going to take and it's probably easier to do up
11:11:46 >>REBECCA KERT: Before bee implement it we will have to
11:11:48 have that answered so that's something we have to do anyway.
11:11:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have a motion by Mr. Suarez, seconded
11:11:54 by Mr. Cohen.
11:11:55 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
11:11:59 Opposed nay.
11:11:59 The ayes have it.
11:12:00 I would assume that would be coming before December 5th.
11:12:05 Same time.
11:12:06 All right.
11:12:07 That motion by Mr. Suarez runs concurrent with the former
11:12:13 All right.
11:12:13 We think go to item 73.
11:12:17 I don't think this will take too long.
11:12:22 Yes, sir?
11:12:24 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Assistant city attorney.
11:12:25 Item 73 asks for a report, the movement of mobile homes in
11:12:32 the city except for registered mobile home parks.
11:12:36 I think the best place to start on this would be to give an
11:12:38 overview of how the city presently regulates mobile homes
11:12:43 and manufactured buildings, and then we can discuss whether
11:12:46 any further regulations be warranted.
11:12:50 We will see that to be somebody degree the city's ability to
11:12:53 regulate is going to be limited, and so to begin with, what
11:12:56 we call mobile homes can then be broken down into two
11:13:02 different categories.
11:13:03 We have the mobile homes, and we have manufactured
11:13:08 Light manufactured buildings.
11:13:10 By state statute under chapter 553, they are designed and
11:13:14 manufactured to meet the Florida building code.
11:13:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Do me a favor.
11:13:19 I'm real stressed for time and I knots you want to give me
11:13:24 complete details.
11:13:24 Cut in the half and tell me if it's a mobile home, if it's
11:13:31 not a mobile home.
11:13:33 >>ERNEST MUELLER: The bottom line on manufactured buildings
11:13:36 that are sealed by the state if they meet the building code,
11:13:41 and we are going to be very limited on regulating them.
11:13:45 If the field manufacturing building that will be placed
11:13:50 satisfies' satisfies the city code in areas like overlay
11:13:53 requirements, zoning use, and site development, and we
11:13:58 cannot prohibit the placement of that manufactured building
11:14:02 As far as mobile homes, they are designed and manufactured
11:14:06 to meet HUD standards, and presently the city code only
11:14:09 allows mobile homes to be located in licensed mobile home
11:14:16 parks and in PD districts that allow mobile homes.
11:14:21 I think the city is regulating the way it's been requested
11:14:25 in item 73.
11:14:27 Manufactured buildings --
11:14:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: In essence of time since I was the
11:14:31 original maker, and Mr. Suarez was involved in it, and the
11:14:34 rest of the council, let me say this.
11:14:37 I understand when I can't win.
11:14:40 But I also understand how to win.
11:14:43 In other words, there's nothing prohibiting us from setting
11:14:48 a design standard for something that meets the surrounding
11:14:53 area of where that home is going.
11:14:56 I understand what the legislature says.
11:14:59 Do I agree with it?
11:15:00 But I would hate to see a mobile home anywhere in the city,
11:15:05 and anywhere because it devalues the adjacent property
11:15:10 I don't care what the legislature said.
11:15:12 I do care, but I don't care because I know what's going to
11:15:15 So are the cities in this state take the brunt of property
11:15:21 values going down, and deterioration. Neighborhood, without
11:15:27 any value given to the neighbors on either side or on that
11:15:30 block or around the whole neighborhood.
11:15:32 So what we are saying is you can put a mobile home in
11:15:36 Ballast Point, in East Tampa, West Tampa, in New Tampa, in
11:15:41 Harbor Island, on Davis Island, and Bayshore Boulevard, if
11:15:44 you have the money to buy a million dollar lot, you can put
11:15:47 a 60, $70,000 mobile home.
11:15:50 I do want to live --
11:15:55 >>ERNEST MUELLER: A mobile home can only go in a licensed
11:15:58 mobile home park.
11:16:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's what we say but what does the
11:16:01 legislature say?
11:16:03 >>ERNEST MUELLER: The legislature is talking about the
11:16:05 manufactured building.
11:16:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is a mobile home -- it's a lobby, that's
11:16:13 what it is.
11:16:15 >>ERNEST MUELLER: The Florida building code.
11:16:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: A duck is a duck.
11:16:21 Two axles, three axles, four axles.
11:16:26 It's a mobile home in disguise.
11:16:29 It's pulled by a truck.
11:16:30 It's delivered the same way.
11:16:32 Set up the same way.
11:16:33 It's got a frame.
11:16:35 It's got the same type of windows with different siding.
11:16:37 Therefore it got a state seal and said now it's no longer a
11:16:40 mobile home.
11:16:41 I understand that.
11:16:42 Is there any way that we can set a standard for design
11:16:45 standards so that these quote-unquote glorified mobile homes
11:16:52 have a standard by which they have to meet to be put
11:16:55 wherever they are going to be put in?
11:17:00 >>ERNEST MUELLER: We can certainly investigate --
11:17:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's exactly what I wanted to hear.
11:17:06 >>ERNEST MUELLER: We already have some zoning standards
11:17:07 overlay --
11:17:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Overlay district.
11:17:10 And I don't want to talk about the problem we have now
11:17:12 because that is in an overlay district and I know that's
11:17:14 going to be in litigation so I don't want to discuss it.
11:17:17 That's just my feeling.
11:17:18 I don't know about the other council members.
11:17:20 So we may come up with a motion.
11:17:22 I can't make a motion.
11:17:24 I will now.
11:17:25 To ask the legal department for guidance regarding these
11:17:30 structures that are called what?
11:17:34 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Manufactured --
11:17:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mobile homes is not manufactured, it's
11:17:38 just put together?
11:17:40 So you can manufacture homes.
11:17:44 Where if we can come up with a design standard, at least to
11:17:47 have some protection for the neighbors, the neighborhood,
11:17:50 and the city, not only when this city does this, other
11:17:53 cities are going to follow if we are successful.
11:17:55 Come back to us -- I'll give you 60 days, 30 days, you tell
11:18:03 >>ERNEST MUELLER: I think 60 days probably.
11:18:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 60 days.
11:18:09 Designation 19th.
11:18:12 At 10:00 in the morning.
11:18:13 And give us your rendering of an ordinance that can pass the
11:18:20 muster to which the legislature said we couldn't put no meat
11:18:23 into it.
11:18:25 I need a second.
11:18:27 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
11:18:32 >>HARRY COHEN: Motion from Mr. Miranda, motion seconded by
11:18:37 Councilman Suarez, December 19th, 10 a.m. regarding
11:18:46 manufactured homes.
11:18:47 All in favor?
11:18:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much Mr. Cohen.
11:18:50 That takes care of 73.
11:18:51 We go to item 374.
11:19:03 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I believe the chief was here and then
11:19:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If you want to hold this to later you
11:19:11 We hold 74.
11:19:19 I don't want to do 78 unless the maker of the motion is
11:19:22 here. We'll hold 78.
11:19:30 Well, I got the public here.
11:19:31 I would like to do the best I can so I can get these good
11:19:36 people back to work and running their lives if I may.
11:19:39 We'll do the consent later on.
11:19:42 Public hearings scheduled for review, item 71 through --
11:20:02 which one?
11:20:03 60 and 61.
11:20:04 >> 60 is just to set the public hearing.
11:20:34 >> We need 60.
11:20:36 I have a motion by Mrs. Mulhern.
11:20:37 Seconded by Mr. Suarez for the 60 which is setting a public
11:20:40 hearing for December 5th at 10:30.
11:20:42 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
11:20:45 Opposed nay.
11:20:45 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:20:47 Let me open 61.
11:20:48 These a quasi-judicial.
11:20:50 You will have to be sworn in.
11:20:51 And along with that I would like to open hearings for second
11:20:54 reading, 62 to 68, and 79 through 82.
11:21:05 >> So moved.
11:21:07 >> All those are public hearings.
11:21:08 People have to be sworn in.
11:21:09 I have a motion made by Mrs. Montelione, seconded by Mr.
11:21:14 Suarez to open.
11:21:14 All in favor of the motion?
11:21:17 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:21:19 Anyone that's going to speak on 60 or those items that hi
11:21:21 just mentioned 361 through 78, please signify by raising
11:21:25 your right hand and get sworn in.
11:21:27 (Oath administered by Clerk)
11:21:41 Item 61.
11:21:43 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Suite 3700 Bank of America Plaza on behalf
11:21:45 of the petitioner on this application.
11:21:49 To refresh your recollection the last hearing on this matter
11:21:52 was September 12th, in which the council heard some
11:22:00 We are here again to request second reading on the
11:22:03 We have folks here that are here in support of the project,
11:22:09 along with David Alexander and Michelle Alexander,
11:22:12 professional staff.
11:22:13 I prefer to yield the floor to folks who want to speak in
11:22:16 opposition, and those who would perhaps speak in favor,
11:22:21 those who want to speak in favor and those perhaps who want
11:22:24 to speak in opposition.
11:22:25 And I will comment after that if necessary.
11:22:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Counselor, Mr. Shelby, this hearing was
11:22:34 held because they wanted a full council, and I understand
11:22:39 And they need a full council.
11:22:43 We had testimony taken already in this hearing to some
11:22:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, what happened was, there was a
11:22:51 request for a continuance.
11:22:54 Council heard from the public and allowed those people who
11:22:57 wished to testify at the second reading to take that
11:23:00 opportunity on September 12th and waive their opportunity to
11:23:03 come back on this date to speak again.
11:23:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.
11:23:06 Then let's go.
11:23:11 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: We request approval on second reading.
11:23:13 Thank you.
11:23:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:23:14 Anyone in the audience care to speak on this item, item
11:23:17 number 61, Z-13-26, please come forward.
11:23:20 >> My name is Jeff Alpert.
11:23:30 I live in the neighborhood.
11:23:31 I prepared a short statement that I want to read.
11:23:33 After careful consideration of this matter brought before
11:23:36 you, I determined to give my full support of this proposal
11:23:39 without reservation.
11:23:40 Dale Mabry is a mostly commercial street and cars entering
11:23:45 the businesses from every which way.
11:23:47 Due to this location on Dale Mabry and frontage on Dale
11:23:51 Mabry, it's commercial.
11:23:54 It is my belief that when people buy homes in close
11:23:56 proximity to Dale Mabry, they must be aware that they are
11:23:59 going to see traffic, hear traffic, and that they know Dale
11:24:03 Mabry is a well traveled road.
11:24:05 I know the people wanting to improve this parcel do things
11:24:09 first class and once completed, their hard work will improve
11:24:12 the aesthetics of our neighborhood at this part of Dale
11:24:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And you live in that neighborhood, right?
11:24:18 >> Yes.
11:24:19 I'm on San Louis street.
11:24:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, sir. Next, please?
11:24:27 Let's go, sir.
11:24:27 >> (off microphone) I live at 3815 --
11:24:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Bristol? Excuse me, your name, sir?
11:24:35 You spoke on September 12th, is that correct?
11:24:37 >> And I believe Mr. Miranda said that if you have new
11:24:40 evidence that that person will be permitted to speak.
11:24:44 >>MARY MULHERN: You said that, Mr. Shelby.
11:24:54 I remember that. You said if there was new evidence to be
11:24:56 presented that people could speak.
11:25:00 I recall that from the hearing.
11:25:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me just say this.
11:25:05 On my experience, on the record, you know what if you don't,
11:25:10 you know what if you do.
11:25:13 With what I am going to suggest to this council and to
11:25:18 myself is we have new evidence, put it on the record for
11:25:24 both sides, for and against.
11:25:28 Let's go.
11:25:33 Go on, sir.
11:25:34 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: I'm okay with that if I have an
11:25:38 opportunity --
11:25:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, sir.
11:25:40 I want the record to be clear.
11:25:41 Yes, sir.
11:25:41 >> (speaking away from microphone)
11:25:57 There's an area Bay to Bay basically residential, and this
11:26:02 property, the proposed retail shop in that 8-block area.
11:26:06 And you said following guidelines that the person can have
11:26:13 access to his property, and he can pull in off of Dale
11:26:15 Mabry, and access his property off of a residential street.
11:26:21 So I started at MacDill Air Force Base, went up to Busch
11:26:27 Boulevard, you are not following guidelines.
11:26:32 You will be setting a precedent.
11:26:33 That retail shop in that area does not have access off a
11:26:37 residential street.
11:26:38 They have access off Dale Mabry.
11:26:41 So you are setting a precedent.
11:26:42 You are not following guidelines.
11:26:49 I'm opposed along with most of the people in the area.
11:26:54 And we are so upset that we have determined that if it is
11:26:59 passed, they will have signs on the street --
11:27:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am not going to take this.
11:27:05 This is not part of the evidence.
11:27:06 >> Okay.
11:27:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I know the feeling.
11:27:12 When you do land zoning, it is the most emotional things
11:27:17 they are.
11:27:17 I want you to come in and leave in two areas.
11:27:20 I want you to be friendly, and those that are not going to
11:27:23 be friendly, I want you to leave friendlier, but I want you
11:27:27 to leave as a neighborhood.
11:27:33 >> Tracey Milvain. I live at 3806 West San Juan. I'm
11:27:33 directly across the street of this proposed property.
11:27:41 I'm in full support as well as my boyfriend who lives there
11:27:42 as well. We have a child.
11:27:47 I know some of the concerns were increase in travel.
11:27:49 But we live two houses in from a highway that is very, very
11:27:54 So we know that there's going to be increased traffic.
11:28:00 The stores that are going there are specialty stores.
11:28:03 They are not going to be open 24 hours a day.
11:28:05 They are going to be open, you know, business hours, and
11:28:07 most of us are going to be -- I don't see that this property
11:28:11 is going to have very much ill effect on the neighborhood in
11:28:15 the area.
11:28:17 I think it's going to improve the area.
11:28:20 As it is right now we have two houses that aren't occupied.
11:28:24 And basically empty lots.
11:28:27 So Mr. Alexander has taken great care in the appearance of
11:28:32 the building, and where they are going to have access in and
11:28:35 out of the building.
11:28:38 In my opinion he has really considered the neighborhood,
11:28:43 what they were most interested in.
11:28:45 The person that tries to develop that in retail before him
11:28:48 didn't care what the neighborhood wanted.
11:28:52 He wanted what he wanted and nothing else, and the
11:28:54 Alexanders are really different.
11:28:55 He's really looking out for the neighborhood.
11:28:57 And I think it will improve the neighborhood.
11:28:59 I'm in full support.
11:29:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:29:01 Anyone else in the audience care to speak on this item, 61,
11:29:06 Please come forward if you are going to speak.
11:29:07 Please come forward.
11:29:09 Yes, sir.
11:29:11 >> My name is David Frederick.
11:29:13 I live at 3901 Santiago one block away.
11:29:17 And I'm in full support of this.
11:29:21 That property has been doing nothing.
11:29:24 It's only going to help our area.
11:29:26 There's tons of commercial up and down.
11:29:28 It's not going to affect us one bit.
11:29:31 I have lived in the neighborhood for 15 years now.
11:29:34 I know David Alexander through business dealings over the
11:29:38 last 15 years.
11:29:39 I'm confident in what's going to happen here.
11:29:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:29:42 Yes, ma'am?
11:29:43 >> Good morning.
11:29:48 It's still morning.
11:29:49 My name is Veda Martin and my sister and I own the property
11:29:53 at 3802 San Juan which is just one street south of Santiago
11:29:58 where this proposal is.
11:30:00 I have been to two of these meetings. And it occurred to me
11:30:04 the last time where one woman made a comment, why don't they
11:30:08 build a house there instead of a business?
11:30:11 I immediately thought to myself, who would do that?
11:30:14 I grew up in that neighborhood.
11:30:16 And the plain fact is there was an elephant in the room at
11:30:20 the last two meetings.
11:30:21 No one wants to live on Dale Mabry.
11:30:24 It's awful.
11:30:25 The traffic is so bad now.
11:30:28 This building offers an opportunity actually for the people
11:30:31 on the other side of it to have a buffer from some of that
11:30:34 noise, and I just want to say I obviously approve of the
11:30:41 building, the kind of business that they want to put into
11:30:46 that building, and I don't think it can hurt at all.
11:30:49 I hope you all will approve it.
11:30:51 >> Thanks very much.
11:30:52 Anyone else in the audience care to speak on Z-13-26, file
11:30:55 number 61?
11:30:58 Mr. Grandoff?
11:30:59 Rebuttal time, sir?
11:31:02 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: I want to point out two things.
11:31:04 First on the report prepared by Ms. Feeley advised me on the
11:31:09 She concluded that proposed low intensity commercial use and
11:31:13 associated site configuration and buffering will provide
11:31:20 from a very heavily traveled core odor back to the
11:31:24 single-family residential neighborhood.
11:31:25 These finding number 6 on page 5.
11:31:27 Also, I would like to file an e-mail provided to Mr.
11:31:32 Alexander from Nicole deberg who is directly behind the
11:31:37 property, and will paraphrase from her e-mail.
11:31:40 I'll file it with you this morning.
11:31:44 Addressing this to David, and our co-counsel Bryan Scott.
11:31:50 As a property neighboring this structure on San Juan street,
11:31:53 immediately west, I feel my opinion should be heard, weighed
11:31:57 and considered by council.
11:31:59 Paraphrasing the next paragraph.
11:32:01 David's design scheme, he is in keeping withing the
11:32:06 neighborhood and more than accommodating in the development
11:32:09 And I want to provide that to you.
11:32:12 And that's all we have.
11:32:13 We respectfully request your approval this morning.
11:32:16 Thank you.
11:32:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anything else?
11:32:20 Mrs. Mulhern?
11:32:20 >>MARY MULHERN: Mr. Grandoff, I just wanted to be reminded.
11:32:24 Is this new construction?
11:32:28 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Yes.
11:32:29 New construction.
11:32:29 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
11:32:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Feeley?
11:32:32 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I just wanted to say that the certified
11:32:35 plans have been provided at the last reading.
11:32:38 I assume the clerk still has those on record.
11:32:40 And the plan is ready to be approved.
11:32:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:32:46 I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione to close, second by Mrs.
11:32:50 Further discussion by council members?
11:32:52 All in favor?
11:32:53 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:32:54 Pleasure of council?
11:32:57 I have a motion by -- you have to read it.
11:33:01 This is second reading.
11:33:14 >>YVONNE CAPIN: An ordinance being presented for second
11:33:16 reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the
11:33:18 general vicinity of 3802 west Santiago street in the city of
11:33:23 Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in section 1
11:33:25 from zoning district classifications RS-60 residential
11:33:29 single-family to PD, planned development, retail sales,
11:33:33 specialty goods and office, business professional, providing
11:33:36 an effective date.
11:33:36 >> Second.
11:33:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Capin for
11:33:41 Seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
11:33:43 Roll call vote.
11:33:44 Vote and record.
11:33:45 Excuse me.
11:33:47 I voted wrong.
11:33:48 I have to clear.
11:33:50 Can you clear?
11:33:56 Roll call vote.
11:34:01 Vote and record.
11:34:10 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda, Mulhern, and
11:34:14 Suarez voting no.
11:34:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much for appearing.
11:34:18 We go to item number 62.
11:34:22 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.
11:34:50 Approved by council on first reading and hear to answer any
11:34:53 questions you may have.
11:34:53 >> Any questions by council members?
11:34:55 Anyone in the audience care to speak on item number 62,
11:34:59 Please come forward.
11:35:01 I see no one.
11:35:01 I need a motion to close.
11:35:03 Motion to close by Mr. Reddick, seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
11:35:06 All in favor on the motion to close?
11:35:11 There motion passes unanimously.
11:35:13 Mr. Suarez, would you read 626?
11:35:15 >> Move an ordinance for second reading an adoption,
11:35:18 vacating discontinuing and abandoning a portion of royalty
11:35:21 known as 33rd Avenue in Campobello subdivision, a
11:35:25 subdivision in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County,
11:35:27 Florida, the same being more fully described in section 1
11:35:30 hereof subject to certain easement reservations, covenants,
11:35:34 conditions and restrictions more particularly set forth
11:35:36 herein providing an effective date.
11:35:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion for approval by Mr.
11:35:40 Suarez, seconded by Mrs. Mulhern.
11:35:42 Roll call vote.
11:35:44 Vote and record.
11:35:44 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
11:35:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 63.
11:35:52 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.
11:35:57 C-13-08 was approved by council on first reading.
11:36:02 234 anyone in the audience care to speak on item 63?
11:36:05 I see no one.
11:36:06 Motion to close by Mr. Cohen.
11:36:07 Seconded by Mr. Reddick.
11:36:08 All in favor of the motion to close?
11:36:11 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:36:12 Mr. Reddick, would you kindly take number 63, please?
11:36:15 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move an ordinance for second reading and
11:36:20 adoption, an ordinance vacating, closing, discontinuing, and
11:36:23 abandoning an alleyway lying south of 7th Avenue, north
11:36:27 of Henderson Avenue, east of Tampa street and west of the
11:36:31 Franklin street legally described in section 1 hereof
11:36:33 subject to certain easement reservations, covenants,
11:36:36 conditions and restrictions more particularly set forth
11:36:39 herein providing an effective date.
11:36:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion for approval built Mr. Reddick,
11:36:42 seconded by Mr. Suarez on a close vote with Mrs. Montelione.
11:36:46 Roll call vote.
11:36:47 Vote and record.
11:36:47 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
11:36:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 64.
11:36:56 Substitute ordinance.
11:37:03 Anybody here on 64?
11:37:05 No one is here on 64?
11:37:16 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I saw the applicant here this morning.
11:37:20 I'm not sure what happened.
11:37:23 This is the Hidden River DRI, and then the next item is the
11:37:26 Hidden River rezoning where we were here on October 3rd.
11:37:32 I'm not sure what happened to Ms. O'Donniley this morning.
11:37:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: To refresh council's recollection --
11:37:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: She was sitting in the third row third
11:37:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And there's an amendment for a
11:37:48 >> I said that.
11:37:49 Anyone in the audience care to speak on item 64, DZ 85-52?
11:37:54 I see no one.
11:37:55 I have a motion to close by Mr. Reddick.
11:37:57 Seconded by Ms. Mulhern.
11:37:59 All in favor of the motion to close?
11:38:02 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:38:03 Ms. Mulhern, would you kindly take number 64?
11:38:08 The substitute ordinance.
11:38:13 Is that the substitute ordinance?
11:38:14 >> We submitted to the clerk's office.
11:38:22 The exhibits changed.
11:38:22 >>MARY MULHERN: Read off the agenda?
11:38:25 >> Yes.
11:38:26 >>CHAIRMAN: Move an ordinance presented for second reading
11:38:29 and adoption, an ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida
11:38:31 approving an amendment to a development order rendered
11:38:33 pursuant to chapter 380, Florida statutes, filed by crescent
11:38:36 resources, Inc., for Hidden River corporate park, a
11:38:40 previously approved development of regional impact,
11:38:42 providing an effective date hereof.
11:38:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
11:38:46 >> Motion by Mrs. Mulhern.
11:38:47 Second by Mr. Suarez.
11:38:48 Roll call vote.
11:38:49 Vote and record.
11:38:50 >> Motion carried unanimously.
11:38:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 65.
11:39:02 Ordinance for second reading.
11:39:03 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land development.
11:39:05 The modifications were made for medical office, the plans
11:39:11 were certified and provided.
11:39:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone in the audience care to speak on
11:39:15 65, Z-13-57?
11:39:18 Motion to close by Mr. Cohen.
11:39:19 Seconded by Mr. Suarez.
11:39:21 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
11:39:23 Opposed nay.
11:39:24 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:39:25 Mr. Cohen, would you take number 65, please.
11:39:27 >>HARRY COHEN: Move an ordinance being presented for second
11:39:30 reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the
11:39:32 general vicinity of the northwest quadrant of I-75 and
11:39:36 Fletcher Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
11:39:39 particularly described in section 1 from zoning district
11:39:42 classifications PD-A planned development, alternative,
11:39:46 retail, hotel, business/professional office, residential,
11:39:49 research and development, clinic, office, medical, to PD-A,
11:39:54 planned development, alternative, retail, hotel,
11:39:56 business/professional office, residential, research and
11:40:00 development, clinic, office, medical, providing an effective
11:40:02 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
11:40:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion for approval bill Mr.
11:40:07 Cohen on number 56, Z-13-57, seconded by Mr. Suarez.
11:40:11 Roll call vote.
11:40:12 Vote and record.
11:40:13 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
11:40:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 66.
11:40:25 >>GLORIA MOREDA: Land development.
11:40:26 The site plan has been certified and given to the city
11:40:28 clerk's office.
11:40:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:40:29 Anyone in the audience care to speak on number 66?
11:40:34 I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione, seconded bid Mr. Cohen.
11:40:36 All in favor of the motion to close?
11:40:39 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:40:40 Mrs. Montelione, would you kindly take number 66?
11:40:44 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I move AP ordinance being presented for
11:40:46 second reading and adoption, an ordinance approving a
11:40:49 special using permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, bar V
11:40:52 lounge on premises consumption only and making lawful the
11:40:55 sale of beverages regardless of alcoholic content, beer wine
11:40:58 and liquor, on that certain lot, plot or tract of land
11:41:01 located at 7507 North Armenia Avenue, Tampa, Florida as more
11:41:08 particularly described in section 2, that all ordinances or
11:41:10 parts of ordinances in conflict are repealed.
11:41:14 Providing an effective date.
11:41:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion for approval by the Mrs.
11:41:17 Seconded by Mr. Reddick.
11:41:19 Roll call vote.
11:41:20 Vote and record.
11:41:20 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
11:41:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 67.
11:41:30 Yes, ma'am.
11:41:31 >>GLORIA MOREDA: Land development.
11:41:33 The site plans have been revised pursuant to council's
11:41:37 There is a substitute ordinance changing this to beer and
11:41:40 eyewitness with consumption on premises and package sales.
11:41:49 Mr. Grandoff is here to explain about the parking, I think,
11:41:52 that council had asked for a clarification on.
11:41:54 But other than that,.
11:42:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Grandoff?
11:42:06 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: John Grandoff, law firm Hill, Ward and
11:42:09 Henderson, suite 3700 Bank of America Plaza.
11:42:14 In summary, I have provided a letter to the city attorney
11:42:18 confirming that we will apply for a right-of-way use permit
11:42:24 for the property south of the building.
11:42:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I remember that was Hillmann's
11:42:33 >> And bring out the best. (Laughter)
11:42:40 There's the building as it was in the photograph.
11:42:44 And this area between the building proper and Adamo Drive,
11:42:48 it's a drainway and parking which will provide additional
11:42:51 parking for the property.
11:42:53 We have indicated the required parking.
11:42:54 We are short on the required parking.
11:42:57 But by providing this greenway we'll bring the parking count
11:43:01 up to 85, where we need 93.
11:43:05 We are providing 91% of the required parking.
11:43:08 And that right-of-way permit according to the ordinance
11:43:11 comes with several conditions, among those hold harmless,
11:43:15 performance standards for completing the project,
11:43:17 recognition of other agencies, and must approve the project.
11:43:20 So we are subject to all the parameters of that permit per
11:43:27 Mrs. Mandell.
11:43:28 Also, we have made the revision required on the site plan.
11:43:33 I have a breakdown of the square footage if you would like
11:43:35 to go look at that.
11:43:37 And we have the hours of operation on the site plan for your
11:43:41 We respectfully request your approval.
11:43:48 We reserve our remaining time for any rebuttal as necessary.
11:43:52 Also have Mr. Ken Bailey, Mr. Hashner and Mr. Liverpool with
11:43:58 me this morning.
11:44:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The owner and the beer making.
11:44:04 I remember that.
11:44:06 All right.
11:44:06 Anyone in the audience care to speak on 67?
11:44:12 Motion to close by Mrs. Capin.
11:44:14 Seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
11:44:15 All in favor of the motion?
11:44:18 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:44:20 Mr. Suarez, would you read the substitute ordinance, please?
11:44:23 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Present an ordinance for second reading and,
11:44:27 do ordinance approving a special using permit S-2 for
11:44:29 alcoholic beverage sales large venue, on premises
11:44:32 consumption and package sales, off premises couples, and
11:44:36 making lawful the sale of beer and wine at or from that
11:44:38 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 2601 east
11:44:42 2nd Avenue, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly
11:44:45 described in section 2, that all ordinances or parts of
11:44:49 ordinances in conflict are repealed, providing an effective
11:44:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion for approval by Mr. Suarez,
11:44:55 seconded by Mrs. Capin.
11:44:57 Roll call vote.
11:44:58 Vote and record.
11:45:02 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
11:45:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 68.
11:45:14 >>GLORIA MOREDA: Land development.
11:45:14 The site plan has been severed certified.
11:45:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is petitioner here for 68?
11:45:36 You can be seen on TV.
11:45:37 Everybody wants to see you.
11:45:39 >> I appreciate your approval.
11:45:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone care to speak on 68, V-13-103?
11:45:44 Motion to close by Mr. Reddick.
11:45:46 Seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
11:45:47 All in favor of the motion to close please signify by saying
11:45:51 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:45:54 Mrs. Capin, will you take 68, please?
11:45:57 >>YVONNE CAPIN: An ordinance being presented for second
11:45:59 reading and adoption, an ordinance approving a special using
11:46:02 permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, small venue, on
11:46:06 premises consumption only, and making lawful the sale of
11:46:09 beer, wine, at or from the certain lot, plot or tract of
11:46:15 land located at 2821 South MacDill Avenue, Tampa, Florida,
11:46:19 as more particularly described in section 2, that all
11:46:22 ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict are repealed,
11:46:25 providing an effective date.
11:46:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion for approval by Mrs.
11:46:28 Capin. Seconded by Mr. Suarez.
11:46:31 Roll call vote. Vote and record.
11:46:33 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
11:46:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Now, let me ask council this.
11:46:44 I am not going to be able to do the remaining four in the
11:46:48 time that I have for us to get what we want.
11:46:53 I understand the audience is here.
11:46:58 I also understand they have to go to lunch.
11:47:00 We can either give you a later lunch and we'll all be late.
11:47:03 But why don't you give us a helping hand and let us be on
11:47:06 time and be a little late.
11:47:09 Any other comments that you care to recess now to 1:30?
11:47:18 I have a motion to recession to 1:30, Mr. Reddick, seconded
11:47:21 by Mrs. Montelione. We will be back at 1:30.
11:47:24 All in favor of that motion to recess? Opposed?
11:47:26 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:47:28 We stand in recess.
11:47:33 >>> (City Council recess.)
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01:22:31 Tampa City Council
01:22:31 Thursday, October 17, 2013
01:22:50 1:30 p.m. Session
01:33:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: City Council is called to order.
01:33:20 Roll call.
01:33:21 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
01:33:22 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Present.
01:33:27 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
01:33:29 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
01:33:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
01:33:35 We have various items that we still need to do.
01:33:37 And item 74 was on hold.
01:33:39 >> John Newman, assistant chief, Tampa police, item 74 is
01:33:48 renewal of the contract for Shell gasoline, a three-year
01:33:55 It's a renewal.
01:33:56 We have done it before.
01:34:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions by council members?
01:34:01 I am not trying to rush it.
01:34:02 The maker that pulled it is not here.
01:34:06 So that's for every year, 8 .4?
01:34:12 >> A three-year contract.
01:34:13 It's 8.4 over three years.
01:34:15 Inevitably we want to do a budget resolution.
01:34:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is that the same one we have had for some
01:34:20 period of time, where you pay the taxes? I pay taxes.
01:34:29 I have got to get some stripes.
01:34:31 Any questions by council members at this time?
01:34:35 I don't see any.
01:34:38 And we'll pass it in a few minutes.
01:34:40 Thank you very much.
01:34:43 We go to item 78.
01:34:59 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Oh, my gosh, where are my notes?
01:35:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Do you want to hold it?
01:35:09 I have other things I can do.
01:35:11 Let me do 79 through 2.
01:35:14 These public hearings were sworn in, I believe.
01:35:17 If anyone is going to speak that has not been sworn in that
01:35:20 came in, please rise and be sworn in at this time.
01:35:24 I see no one.
01:35:25 These are quasi-judicial hearings so we go to item number
01:35:30 Yes, ma'am.
01:35:31 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.
01:35:35 13-10 is a vacating of a portion of an alleyway in South
01:35:38 Tampa, in Hyde Park historic district.
01:35:42 And I have a map for the overhead showing the location.
01:35:51 The property is outlined in red.
01:35:53 And then the portion of the alley to be vacated is in
01:35:56 And this is actually just a portion of an alley.
01:36:00 The alley lies south of Beach Place, north of Verne, east of
01:36:06 Plant, west of Bayshore, and you notice the north-south
01:36:10 alley this portion right here will remain open and the small
01:36:13 portion is the vacating request. It has a tree growing in
01:36:20 it and I have a photo showing that.
01:36:24 And then the north-south portion of the alley would remain
01:36:27 open, and I have a photo of that.
01:36:33 And then another photo in the mid block towards Beach Place.
01:36:37 I couldn't really get good photos because there's so much
01:36:40 construction going on in the area.
01:36:42 And this is one of the property owners.
01:36:43 This is on Verne street up on the alley.
01:36:49 Staff has no objection.
01:36:50 This went in front of the review commission on October
01:36:53 7th and was approved, and requesting an easement be
01:37:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
01:37:02 >> Keith Mann of Gardner, brewer, Martinez, 400 northbound
01:37:12 Ashley drive suite 1100 on behalf of the applicant Preston
01:37:17 I am filling in today for Truett Gardner who unfortunately
01:37:20 could not be here today.
01:37:21 He had a prior engagement in south Florida.
01:37:26 It was previously to vacate .009. It's a real minor issue.
01:37:32 We have no staff objections.
01:37:33 And we have a unanimous recommendation from the ARC.
01:37:38 We really do appreciate their support and would request
01:37:40 approval of the application.
01:37:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That you have been.
01:37:42 Anyone in the audience care to speak on this item 9?
01:37:44 Please come forward.
01:37:45 >> Lori Brown.
01:37:54 I own Hyde Park counseling center.
01:37:56 We have abutting property.
01:37:58 We are located 207 west Verne street.
01:38:00 We own property directly behind east and west B and property
01:38:04 at A.
01:38:06 The alley they want to vacate is our property.
01:38:08 The problem we have with that is we have construction at the
01:38:13 end of Beach street and Bayshore with a five 8-story complex
01:38:19 going in. We need an alternate route of evacuating our
01:38:25 There are other coexisting issues.
01:38:27 We have one way out.
01:38:28 That's onto Beach street.
01:38:30 Beach Street when it's congested you can't get two cars
01:38:36 We need an alternate way out to vacate clients in case of
01:38:39 These what this area would be for.
01:38:43 We can get around the tree.
01:38:46 However it's been fenced off by the other property owner.
01:38:49 In addition to that secondary issue is the county tax
01:38:57 collector, there are two property owners listed for 208 west
01:39:03 We are listed as one.
01:39:06 And crescent is listed as another one.
01:39:10 It's plat 4 and 5.
01:39:12 But it's created an issue.
01:39:21 They have the property for sale.
01:39:24 And they have in their lot description for sale 208 Beach
01:39:29 which to us is our property.
01:39:32 So before anything can be decided, I think that needs to be
01:39:36 cleared up as far as what the property lines are and what
01:39:39 the addresses are.
01:39:43 We are definitely opposed to it.
01:39:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez?
01:39:48 >>MIKE SUAREZ: May I ask a question of staff?
01:39:50 She just brought up a couple of issues concerning, A, the
01:39:54 way it's fenced in, had and secondly, access from that
01:39:58 And then thirdly ownership that's abutting it, I assume
01:40:04 abutting is not this parcel of land.
01:40:08 If you can step back so she can talk for a second.
01:40:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What I heard is they are selling her
01:40:25 I don't know how true that is.
01:40:27 >> This is our property.
01:40:28 This is our property.
01:40:28 This is our property.
01:40:33 It's Hyde Park Counseling Center.
01:40:35 >> They were noticed properly.
01:40:42 >> Correct.
01:40:42 That's why I am here.
01:40:43 >> Are you an owner?
01:40:45 >> I'm family.
01:40:46 >> All right.
01:40:47 I wanted to make sure that they got notice properly.
01:40:52 The actual owners.
01:40:53 The way the land is.
01:41:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Wait a minute.
01:41:01 >> I wanted to --
01:41:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand.
01:41:04 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I want her to answer my question first and
01:41:06 then we'll try to answer your question.
01:41:08 >> I didn't know it was sent, and if somebody has a
01:41:15 complaint about it they have to call into the City of Tampa
01:41:17 transportation, and then they cite those people to remove
01:41:21 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Well, there's a lot of issues going on here,
01:41:26 Obviously brought in at the last minute.
01:41:28 I know that you didn't know about it and I assume the
01:41:30 petitioner didn't either.
01:41:31 I think we need to straighten these things out before we go
01:41:34 forward on a vote.
01:41:35 She's bringing up some issues that we are not capable of
01:41:38 dealing with yet and I don't think you are either.
01:41:40 I'm not sure if the petitioner -- sir, if you want to deal
01:41:46 with some of these issues, or come back at a different time
01:41:49 when these issues are clarified.
01:41:56 You are the party.
01:41:57 You have to tell us.
01:41:57 >> I think probably continue it then.
01:42:00 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Are you asking for a continuance, sir?
01:42:02 >> Yes.
01:42:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What's the next available date?
01:42:09 Give me a continuance date.
01:42:10 >> About two weeks from now or longer?
01:42:14 >> November 7th.
01:42:20 >>FRANK REDDICK: I move this be continued for 30 days to
01:42:27 the 21st.
01:42:29 >>MIKE SUAREZ: What time?
01:42:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 10:30.
01:42:35 >>FRANK REDDICK: 10:30 it is.
01:42:37 >>MARY MULHERN: Mrs. Lynch, will this be publicly noticed
01:42:41 that this is being continued?
01:42:44 >>BARBARA LYNCH: No.
01:42:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No.
01:42:46 This is the notice.
01:42:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Who was noticed for today's hearing?
01:42:51 Just the adjacent property --
01:42:53 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Just the adjacent and this lady did get
01:42:57 notice because it went to her family.
01:43:00 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm looking at this overhead.
01:43:02 And it looks like that alley, does this go all the way
01:43:07 through to Plant from --
01:43:12 >> No.
01:43:13 Here is a little bit of a survey that shows in the more
01:43:21 Can I have the overhead?
01:43:22 The alley goes from Beach to Verne, and that's paved.
01:43:27 This small section of alley abuts these three lots and is
01:43:31 unimproved, and the fence is here, and that's where it
01:43:34 >>MARY MULHERN: That doesn't continue?
01:43:48 >> No.
01:43:48 And they had some strange alley configuration.
01:43:50 They had been vacated previously but this alley stops where
01:43:54 it's shown.
01:43:54 >>MARY MULHERN: The adjacent lot that was -- this is
01:44:02 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Yes.
01:44:03 >>MARY MULHERN: (off microphone) So is that the only
01:44:11 property that has access to this alley that's not owned
01:44:15 by --
01:44:16 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Yes.
01:44:17 >>MARY MULHERN: But there is access -- can you put that up
01:44:26 for a second?
01:44:32 If this is an approved alley it goes from Beach to Verne.
01:44:37 It's just an alley.
01:44:39 It wouldn't be address or name.
01:44:41 It's like a rear access.
01:44:43 >>MARY MULHERN: I think since this is the noticed public
01:44:45 hearing, I think we need to talk about this a little more.
01:44:49 Can you show us the areas that have already been vacated,
01:44:54 the alleys and the streets that have already been vacated
01:44:58 for this property?
01:45:10 In this block, there's a couple of alleys.
01:45:12 There is this abutting the portion being requested to be
01:45:19 That's open till the request today.
01:45:20 Then this is an open alley here that goes from Verne to
01:45:26 Beach here.
01:45:27 Then an alley that went west off that that was vacated.
01:45:30 >>MARY MULHERN: So the ones with the cross marks has been
01:45:35 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Yes.
01:45:36 >>MARY MULHERN: Are they asking to vacate the diagonal long
01:45:40 part of the alley?
01:45:44 >> Just this little piece there.
01:45:46 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm curious why they didn't ask for that.
01:45:48 I guess that's the question.
01:45:50 >> This part here?
01:45:52 When you go out there and look at this, this area is
01:45:55 totally --
01:45:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Right, no, no, I understand that.
01:46:00 I am glad they are not asking for that but why didn't they
01:46:03 ask for that other little piece when they came in the first
01:46:07 >> Over here?
01:46:08 >>MARY MULHERN: No.
01:46:08 The piece they are asking for today.
01:46:10 During the original rezoning when they revacated.
01:46:14 >> I don't know.
01:46:16 He can talk to you about that.
01:46:18 I don't know if that acquired some other property.
01:46:21 >>MARY MULHERN: That's a question when they come back for
01:46:23 the continuance.
01:46:25 I would like to understand why you are asking for that now,
01:46:27 because it was quite contentious in the first place.
01:46:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay, we have a motion and second for
01:46:35 continuation to November 21st, 2013 at 10:30 a.m.
01:46:39 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
01:46:41 Opposed nay.
01:46:42 The ayes have it unanimously.
01:46:44 Okay, I'm sorry.
01:46:45 We go back to 74.
01:46:48 The chief was here and he had to leave.
01:46:50 So that's a three-year, 8.4 million.
01:46:56 I did the best I could.
01:46:57 I didn't take a vote on it.
01:46:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
01:47:01 And my apologies that I was not here.
01:47:06 Every time these fuel items come up before us, I always ask
01:47:13 questions of fuel efficiency, what strategies are in place
01:47:20 to reduce mileage, and try and really conserve in the area
01:47:26 of our fuel consumption.
01:47:30 This is $8.4 million just for the police department fuel
01:47:38 And by far they are probably one of the largest users, and
01:47:42 we usually have an instance where we have to come back and
01:47:46 change the budget and increase the budget at some point, I
01:47:49 think every year since we have been sitting here we have had
01:47:52 to increase the budget for their fuel costs.
01:47:54 So that was the reason why I had wanted to discuss this.
01:48:02 I guess we will move forward and approve the item.
01:48:05 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
01:48:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mrs. Montelione, second by Mr.
01:48:10 All in favor of the motion?
01:48:13 The ayes have it unanimously.
01:48:15 Thank you very much.
01:48:16 We go back to number 80.
01:48:31 >>GLORIA MOREDA: Land development.
01:48:33 I just handed Mr. Shelby four copies of the site plan, the
01:48:39 revision sheet, as well as letters of support that were
01:48:42 submitted to our office, as well as photos supplied by the
01:48:49 The petition V-13 84, the property is located at 6312 North
01:48:56 Armenia Avenue.
01:48:58 The application is for restaurant, beer, wine, liquor on
01:49:03 premises consumption only.
01:49:07 They are asking for a total of 5283 square feet for AB sales
01:49:14 The property currently has or is supposed to have 47
01:49:20 off-street parking spaces.
01:49:23 The hours of operation proposed are Monday through Saturday,
01:49:27 7 a.m. to 11 p.m., Sunday from 11 a.m. to 11 p.m.
01:49:35 There are a number of waivers being requested, including
01:49:39 section 27-132, reduction of the distance separation for
01:49:48 other AB sales establishments from 250 to 185 feet, and from
01:49:56 residential from 250 to 135 feet.
01:50:01 They are also asking for a reduction of required parking
01:50:05 from 71 spaces to 43 spaces.
01:50:10 They are asking for a reduction more than they actually have
01:50:17 They are asking for a reduction of the loading and unloading
01:50:20 space from one space to zero, and to allow for maneuvering
01:50:26 along Armenia.
01:50:28 The ingress and egress is off of Lucerne street.
01:50:35 It's an existing shopping center.
01:50:38 It is located on Armenia Avenue, have the map showing the
01:50:47 All the parking area in the front, historically, has been
01:50:51 along Armenia, and maneuvering into Armenia.
01:50:56 The application is for the sale of alcoholic beverage for a
01:51:00 restaurant, beer, wine, liquor, consumption on premises
01:51:04 The site is occupied by existing shopping center.
01:51:08 Currently the shopping center is about 8700 square feet.
01:51:12 It contains retail shops and the existing La Pequena
01:51:20 restaurant which is about 3000 square feet.
01:51:21 They are proposing to expand 52 to 83 square feet sales area
01:51:27 with alcohol being requested.
01:51:31 I mentioned already the hours of operation.
01:51:35 The site plan does indicate that there is no amplified music
01:51:43 after 10 p.m. and there is no proposed sale of alcoholic
01:51:46 beverage sales within the parking area.
01:51:49 There are a number of site plans additions that are being
01:51:53 requested by staff, if council is inclined to approve.
01:51:58 However, the petition does not meet the criteria of code and
01:52:04 staff find it inconsistent.
01:52:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
01:52:09 Any questions by council members at this time?
01:52:11 >> Joe Hearn, associate of Mr. Fabio Orozco, owner of the La
01:52:30 Pequena Colombia restaurant.
01:52:31 He and his wife owned this restaurant since '98.
01:52:35 It is a neighborhood restaurant.
01:52:37 We have a lot of foot traffic that use it is restaurant.
01:52:43 And we are asking you to approve it.
01:52:47 Thank you.
01:52:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Please speak to the mike.
01:52:52 >> Excuse me.
01:52:53 We are asking for approval based on that it is a
01:52:57 neighborhood restaurant and we have a lot of foot traffic
01:52:59 coming in.
01:53:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All I see right in and out in front of
01:53:04 that place is cars.
01:53:05 >> Say again, sir?
01:53:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All I see in front of that place is cars.
01:53:08 >> That's correct.
01:53:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: But we'll go with foot traffic.
01:53:15 Anyone in the audience care to speak on item V-13- 4?
01:53:22 Is this close to Oak Grove?
01:53:27 >>GLORIA MOREDA: Yes.
01:53:28 I believe it an elementary school is directly across the
01:53:31 street from this location.
01:53:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And thank you.
01:53:44 This is the first time each one of us got the photographs.
01:53:47 >> I believe the applicant did those.
01:53:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, very nice.
01:54:11 This is the La Pequena restaurant.
01:54:18 Oak ridge elementary school is directly across the street
01:54:21 from the location.
01:54:25 Looking south from the property, there are other commercial
01:54:29 establishments including another restaurant similarly owned
01:54:34 by this applicant, I believe.
01:54:36 This is the back area of the shopping center that is being
01:54:41 proposed to be improved for additional parking to
01:54:44 accommodate the use.
01:54:48 And I did take a photograph of the area in the rear.
01:54:51 They are asking for distance separation reduction for
01:54:57 And it is located to the west of the property.
01:54:59 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Ms. Moreda, let me ask you a quick question.
01:55:12 La Pequna restaurant, do they already have anything for
01:55:19 >>GLORIA MOREDA: Currently there is not alcohol on the
01:55:24 >> There's no permitted use on it right now?
01:55:27 >> No.
01:55:28 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Sir, I see you raising your hand.
01:55:31 You seem to have a disagreement about that.
01:55:33 >> We are authorized beer and wine at this time.
01:55:37 >>MIKE SUAREZ: By the city?
01:55:50 >>GLORIA MOREDA: I don't have it on mine.
01:55:53 I'll research.
01:55:54 I don't have it on my --
01:55:57 >>MIKE SUAREZ: We are vacating land we may not own.
01:55:59 We are giving zoning for additional lots -- is there a
01:56:06 parcel on there?
01:56:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Maybe they received it themselves.
01:56:10 I don't know.
01:56:10 I'm not saying that.
01:56:12 Everything is possible.
01:56:12 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair.
01:56:17 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Let me clarify.
01:56:18 It is a shopping center so this would be just for that space
01:56:21 or the entire shopping center?
01:56:23 >>GLORIA MOREDA: No, it is just for the space.
01:56:32 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
01:56:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else in the audience care to speak
01:56:34 on this item?
01:56:35 Any other council members?
01:56:36 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I just want to be clear that the
01:56:42 inconsistency that is in the staff report is strictly based
01:56:46 on the transportation issues that are on page 3 of the staff
01:56:55 Is that correct?
01:56:57 >>GLORIA MOREDA: No, the inconsistencies are related of the
01:57:00 distance separation required for alcoholic beverages.
01:57:05 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So they are within 250 feet of other
01:57:10 establishments that have alcoholic beverage sales as well as
01:57:15 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well, it's completely unusual to have
01:57:22 multiple restaurants in a shopping center that beer and wine
01:57:26 or, you know, along with their food, and there's several on
01:57:29 Fowler Avenue, and a couple shopping centers -- used to have
01:57:34 retail mixes mixed in but now it seems the entire shopping
01:57:38 center is restaurants, and we found that it would be a
01:57:44 situation that is unavoidable in some cases when you have
01:57:48 shopping centers with multiple restaurants.
01:57:52 And the photograph on the other side of this fence, is that
01:57:56 the residential?
01:58:00 >>GLORIA MOREDA: There is a retention pond in the back.
01:58:02 >> I have another one that shows the retention pond.
01:58:05 >>GLORIA MOREDA: And they are within the 135 feet of the
01:58:08 residential use.
01:58:10 This is across the street from that.
01:58:13 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So the residential is not behind the
01:58:16 shopping center, it's across the street from the shopping
01:58:21 >>GLORIA MOREDA: Yes.
01:58:22 >>LISA MONTELIONE: All right, that's fine.
01:58:24 Thank you.
01:58:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez?
01:58:26 >>MIKE SUAREZ: You know, I just want to make sure we are
01:58:30 clear on this.
01:58:31 I mean, if we are permitting something that's already been
01:58:34 permitted, I feel redundant -- I may be wrong about that --
01:58:39 but the restaurant already has a land use on there, and they
01:58:44 are already serving it, I think we have opened up a
01:58:46 different kettle of worms here.
01:58:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There may or may not be from what I hear.
01:58:52 I hear one side say yes and the other side say no.
01:58:56 >>MIKE SUAREZ: The issue is that is correct they want to
01:58:58 expand the restaurant, and it's only for the expansion and
01:59:00 nothing else, I assume.
01:59:03 >>HARRY COHEN: I think that regardless of what they
01:59:08 determine, the issue of full liquor is on the agenda.
01:59:11 Whether or not they are permitted beer and wine.
01:59:14 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I understand that.
01:59:15 The clarification to me is saying, no, there isn't, and yes,
01:59:19 there is.
01:59:25 It makes a difference in my mind, is what I'm saying.
01:59:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Come on up.
01:59:31 I need your name for the record.
01:59:32 >> Joe Irwin.
01:59:35 What has happened there, we are taking two spaces in the
01:59:38 shopping center that were retail, and we are turning it into
01:59:42 a dining room.
01:59:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand.
01:59:45 I am going to ask you one more time, sir.
01:59:47 I know you have been asked before.
01:59:48 Does this place have a certified legitimate liquor license
01:59:52 to sell --
01:59:53 >> It has a beer and wine liquor license now.
01:59:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Given by the State of Florida with
01:59:57 approval from the secretary?
01:59:59 >> That's correct.
02:00:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Mulhern?
02:00:05 >>MARY MULHERN: Don't go away.
02:00:07 So are you asking additionally to be able to sell liquor?
02:00:10 >> That's correct.
02:00:12 >>MARY MULHERN: So that's what the change in alcohol is?
02:00:15 >> That's what the change in alcohol.
02:00:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Does anyone else in the audience care to
02:00:20 speak on this item, V-13-84?
02:00:23 I have a motion to close by Mr. Reddick.
02:00:25 Seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
02:00:30 All in favor?
02:00:31 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:00:33 What's the pleasure of council?
02:00:34 >> Move to approve the ordinance to the application for
02:00:39 special use.
02:00:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by --
02:00:43 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I have to read the item.
02:00:49 Mr. Cohen always at the ready.
02:00:50 I move an ordinance being presented for first reading
02:00:53 consideration, an ordinance approving a special use permit
02:00:55 S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, restaurant, consumption on
02:00:58 premises only, and making lawful the sale of beverages
02:01:00 regardless of alcoholic content, beer wine and liquor, on
02:01:04 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 6312
02:01:08 North Armenia Avenue Tampa, Florida more particularly
02:01:11 described in section 2, that all ordinances or parts of
02:01:13 ordinances in conflict are repealed, providing an effective
02:01:17 Including the revision sheet as provided by staff.
02:01:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione, a
02:01:21 seconded by Mr. Reddick.
02:01:22 Further discussion by council members?
02:01:23 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
02:01:26 Opposed nay.
02:01:28 >>THE CLERK: Second reading of the ordinance will be held
02:01:32 November 7th at 9:30 a.m.
02:01:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We go to item number 81.
02:01:43 This cannot be heard.
02:01:45 Is that the right one here that I am reading?
02:01:47 No affidavit filed on 81?
02:01:51 >>GLORIA MOREDA: It's my understanding from legal department
02:01:53 determined that it can go forward.
02:01:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It can?
02:01:59 >>GLORIA MOREDA: The petition is V-13-86.
02:02:03 The property is located at 1003 west Hillsborough Avenue.
02:02:09 And it's for a restaurant, beer, wine, consumption on
02:02:15 premises only, a total of -- total AB sales area.
02:02:21 There are 22 parking spaces on-site.
02:02:25 The hours of operation are from 11 a.m. to 11 p.m. on
02:02:30 Sundays, Monday through Wednesday, 7 a.m. to 11 p.m., and
02:02:36 then Thursday whether from 7 a.m. to 1 a.m.
02:02:42 There is an existing alcoholic beverage sales at this
02:02:46 location, 2(COP-R).
02:02:50 That's for 1080 square feet.
02:02:52 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
02:02:57 I was not aware that someone had said it could go forward.
02:03:00 Did it not have an ordinance ready because it was listed as
02:03:03 cannot be heard, and no affidavit filed, and even if they
02:03:08 have now listed that we put people on notice it was not
02:03:12 going to be heard today by listing it on the agenda so it
02:03:14 cannot go forward.
02:03:16 I don't know where it came from.
02:03:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is petitioner here?
02:03:30 I hope you understand what happened here.
02:03:32 Once it's listed that it cannot be heard and someone may
02:03:35 have objected to it, I'm not saying they would have, it may
02:03:39 not be heard if we already said it cannot be heard.
02:03:42 So we are stuck in the middle of this thing.
02:03:53 (Speaking Spanish)
02:04:15 Don't leave yet, Legal.
02:04:19 Come back.
02:04:21 They don't like me, they leave.
02:04:23 So in other words what I am trying to find out is when we
02:04:30 can here this case, I should say, it won't be today.
02:04:36 Rebecca, when can we hear this case?
02:04:38 >>REBECCA KERT: We are going to try to get it in the
02:05:00 scheduled for November 21st.
02:05:02 (Speaking Spanish)
02:05:06 What I said was -- well, what I said was that the water is a
02:06:07 little muckier and you can't see clearly through, and it's
02:06:12 best for the petitioner and us to understand if this goes
02:06:15 through, down the road we have a problem, that we are both
02:06:17 going to have a problem.
02:06:18 The petitioner and us, the city.
02:06:20 So I suggested for postponement.
02:06:23 Can it be any earlier than November 21st?
02:06:30 >>GLORIA MOREDA: No.
02:06:30 It does have to have new notice done.
02:06:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Who is going to pay for the new notice?
02:06:35 Whose fault was it?
02:06:36 How do we get where we are at?
02:06:42 >>GLORIA MOREDA: Come up, we will do notice.
02:06:44 Land development office.
02:06:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
02:06:45 (Speaking Spanish)
02:06:58 Postponed to November 21st at 10:30 a.m.
02:07:16 Motion by Mrs. Montelione, seconded by Mrs. Capin.
02:07:21 And the city will pay the cost for notice.
02:07:25 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I am glad that the city is not only going to
02:07:27 pay it but also send it out.
02:07:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Correct, yes.
02:07:31 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Because these people did their due
02:07:34 diligence, and it's embarrassing that we should have this
02:07:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any further discussion by council
02:07:47 All in favor of the motion please signify by saying aye.
02:07:50 Opposed nay.
02:07:52 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:07:53 November 21st, 10:30 in the morning.
02:07:57 Item number 82.
02:08:03 >>GLORIA MOREDA: Land development.
02:08:05 Hopefully this one will be easier.
02:08:08 It involves the existing Marriott Courtyard at 13575 Cyprus
02:08:18 Glen Lane, existing planned development district in the New
02:08:20 Tampa area, Hidden River is the actual location.
02:08:27 They are proposing for a large venue beer and wine
02:08:30 consumption on premises only.
02:08:32 They are asking this be basically cover the entire hotel as
02:08:35 well as and the total square footage would be 51,325 square
02:08:46 The hotel currently does have a 2(COP) for about 25, 24
02:08:51 square feet area.
02:08:53 They are not making any changes to this site.
02:08:57 There's an existing 87 parking spaces, and would be
02:09:03 consistent with chapter 3 requirements.
02:09:13 It is an existing hotel.
02:09:15 Fletcher Avenue is considered a mixed use corridor village,
02:09:18 and 250-foot separation is requiring from AB sales
02:09:24 establishment with residential, and they are indicating that
02:09:28 there is no one near that distance.
02:09:31 We have no objection to the request.
02:09:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Petitioner?
02:09:35 >>STEVE MICHELINI: It's been nice spending the day with
02:09:46 This has been pretty straightforward.
02:09:48 It's an existing hotel.
02:09:49 And there was a cut-out error in the original wet zoning,
02:09:54 and requesting that that be corrected to cover the entire
02:09:58 hotel and the pool area.
02:09:59 Respectfully request your approval.
02:10:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone in the audience care to speak on
02:10:03 this item?
02:10:04 Item number 82, I believe it was.
02:10:10 Please come forward.
02:10:14 I see no one.
02:10:15 I have a motion to close by Mr. Reddick.
02:10:16 Seconded by Mrs. Montelione over Mr. Cohen.
02:10:24 All in favor of the motion?
02:10:26 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:10:27 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move for first reading consideration, an
02:10:33 ordinance approving a special using permit S-2 for alcoholic
02:10:35 beverage sales, large venue on premises consumption only,
02:10:39 and making lawful the sale of beer and wine at or from that
02:10:42 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 13575 cypress
02:10:49 Glen lane Tampa, Florida as more particularly described in
02:10:51 section 2 that all ordinances or parts of ordinances in
02:10:54 conflict are repealed, providing an effective date.
02:10:55 >> Second.
02:10:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mr. Reddick, seconded by Mrs.
02:11:01 Further discussion by council members?
02:11:02 All in favor?
02:11:04 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:11:05 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Thank you, council.
02:11:08 >>THE CLERK: Second reading of the ordinance will be held
02:11:10 November 7th at 9:30 a.m.
02:11:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
02:11:13 We go to ordinances or first reading, 3 and 4.
02:11:28 In this is about historic preservation.
02:11:47 Ordinance presented for first reading.
02:11:48 Anyone in the audience care to speak on this first reading
02:11:52 on item number 3?
02:11:53 I see no one.
02:11:57 Mr. Suarez, would you kindly take number 3 for first
02:12:01 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I present an ordinance for first reading
02:12:03 consideration, an ordinance approving a historic
02:12:05 preservation property tax exemption application relative to
02:12:08 the restoration, renovation or rehabilitation of certain
02:12:12 property owned by Russell S. Versaggi and Leigh Wilson
02:12:17 Versaggi located at 2201 north Central Avenue, Tampa,
02:12:20 Florida, in the Tampa Heights historic district based upon
02:12:23 certain findings, providing for notice to the property
02:12:26 appraiser of Hillsborough County, providing for
02:12:29 severability, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
02:12:32 conflict, providing an effective date.
02:12:32 >> Second.
02:12:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Suarez, second by
02:12:36 Mrs. Capin.
02:12:37 Further discussion by council members?
02:12:38 All in favor of the motion?
02:12:40 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:12:41 >>THE CLERK: Second reading of the ordinance will be held
02:12:44 November 7th at 9:30 a.m.
02:12:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 4, an ordinance for first
02:12:50 reading regarding rehab and renovation, design styles
02:13:04 Mrs. Capin, would you kindly take number 4, please?
02:13:09 >>YVONNE CAPIN: An ordinance being presented for first
02:13:11 reading consideration, an ordinance approving historic
02:13:14 preservation property tax exemption application relative to
02:13:17 the restoration, renovation, or rehabilitation of certain
02:13:20 property owned by design styles architecture, Inc., Andrew
02:13:24 Dohmen, president, located at 1708 east Columbus drive,
02:13:30 Tampa, Florida in the Ybor City historic district, based
02:13:33 upon certain findings, providing for notice to the property
02:13:36 appraiser of Hillsborough County, providing for
02:13:39 severability, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
02:13:42 conflict, providing an effective date.
02:13:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion for first reading by Mrs.
02:13:46 Capin, approval of number 4, E-2013-8.
02:13:52 Seconded by Mr. Suarez.
02:13:53 Further discussion by council members?
02:13:55 All in favor of the motion?
02:13:57 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:13:58 >>THE CLERK: The second reading of the ordinance will be
02:14:01 held November 7th at 9:30 a.m.
02:14:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We go to Public Safety Committee reports,
02:14:08 5 and 6.
02:14:10 Chair Frank Reddick.
02:14:12 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move 5 through 6.
02:14:14 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
02:14:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seconded by Mr. Cohen.
02:14:16 All in favor of that motion?
02:14:19 Motion passes unanimously.
02:14:20 Parks, Recreation, Culture Committee chair, Mary muscle
02:14:23 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
02:14:26 I move items 7 through 16 and item number 7 has resolution
02:14:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mrs. Mulhern, seconded by Mrs.
02:14:40 All in favor of the motion?
02:14:42 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:14:45 Public works committee chair, Mike Suarez.
02:14:47 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I move items 17 through 23.
02:14:50 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
02:14:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Suarez, a second
02:14:54 by Mr. Cohen.
02:14:55 All in favor of the motion please signify by saying aye.
02:14:57 Opposed nay.
02:14:58 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:15:00 Finance chair, committee chair Mr. Harry.
02:15:03 >>HARRY COHEN: Cohen move items 24 through 36.
02:15:07 >>FRANK REDDICK: Second.
02:15:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Cohen, second by
02:15:11 Mrs. Mulhern.
02:15:12 All in favor?
02:15:13 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:15:15 Building, zoning preservation chair, Ms. Lisa Montelione.
02:15:21 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I move items 37 through 42, and 44
02:15:27 through 55, as well as 75, 76 and 77.
02:15:32 >> I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione, seconded by Mr.
02:15:36 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
02:15:38 Opposed nay.
02:15:39 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:15:40 Before I go to transportation committee, I am going to -- I
02:15:44 have been asked to hold 58 for consideration discussion, and
02:15:48 transportation committee chair Mrs. Yvonne Yolie Capin.
02:15:53 >> I move 56, 57, 59.
02:15:59 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
02:16:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mrs. Capin, seconded by Mr.
02:16:01 Cohen. The ayes have it unanimously.
02:16:04 Mr. Reddick, 58.
02:16:05 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
02:16:09 I don't see staff here.
02:16:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, call and see if they can come down.
02:16:28 I have one left, 78, I believe it is.
02:16:43 We'll go to 78 while we wait on 55.
02:16:54 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Recommended by the cultural assets committee
02:17:02 to send to the school board to encourage and support
02:17:06 something that they have started, the just to let them know
02:17:10 that we are in sync with them.
02:17:15 The only thing that I see in this letter is that Tampa City
02:17:19 Council -- I would strike it's from Tampa City Council.
02:17:24 It's the economic impact cultural assets citizens advisory
02:17:27 wants to send a separate letter, I would recommend that.
02:17:30 But otherwise, that's my recommendation to strike that part
02:17:36 of it.
02:17:37 And then it would just be from City Council encouraging and
02:17:41 supporting something that has been started by the
02:17:45 Hillsborough County school board and to let them know that
02:17:49 it is a very important economic benefit to our city to have
02:17:54 the foreign language program in our school, the immersed
02:18:00 foreign language.
02:18:02 So I don't know.
02:18:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mrs. Capin, second by Mrs.
02:18:07 All in favor of the motion?
02:18:09 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:18:10 Thank you very much.
02:18:15 We are waiting on one item.
02:18:17 We'll go to, if I may, I believe take takes care of the
02:18:22 agenda, right, clerk?
02:18:23 We go to information reports, left to right at this time.
02:18:25 >>LISA MONTELIONE: No new business, sir.
02:18:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You're the best.
02:18:30 Mr. Cohen?
02:18:35 >>HARRY COHEN: I do have one item, Mr. Chair.
02:18:41 This afternoon, after our meeting is over, funeral services
02:18:44 are going to be held for Dottie Berger MacKinnon who
02:18:50 passed away on Sunday.
02:18:51 In addition to being a Hillsborough County commissioner,
02:18:54 former chair of the Hillsborough County commission, Dottie
02:18:57 Berger MacKinnon was a passionate advocate on behalf of
02:19:01 children and families in our community, and our community
02:19:07 owes a tremendous debt of gratitude for much of the work
02:19:09 that she did, particularly over the last decade,
02:19:13 specifically making sure that when children are placed into
02:19:20 the care of the government that siblings are not separated
02:19:24 from one another in the process.
02:19:26 And that is a tremendous accomplishment to have created a
02:19:31 place where families can go somewhat intact as they work
02:19:36 through the difficulties of break-ups and all the different
02:19:42 things that puts families into crisis and onto the streets.
02:19:47 So I wanted to mention that.
02:19:49 I wanted to also thank former Mayor Iorio, and former
02:19:54 council, for dedicating the park, the playground at Curtis
02:19:57 Hixon park to Dottie Berger MacKinnon.
02:20:01 That's a very fitting memorial to her and I know we will all
02:20:04 want to send our condolences to Sandy MacKinnon and her
02:20:09 entire family.
02:20:09 Thank you.
02:20:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, Mr. Cohen.
02:20:11 Very well said.
02:20:13 Ms. Mulhern.
02:20:13 >>MARY MULHERN: Nothing.
02:20:16 >>FRANK REDDICK: No new business.
02:20:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Capin?
02:20:21 >>YVONNE CAPIN: (off microphone) I'm sorry, I turned it off
02:20:26 instead of on.
02:20:28 I would like to move to schedule the cultural assets
02:20:30 committee report.
02:20:32 Actually it's the last one of the two-year term to be City
02:20:36 Council for November 14th at 5:00 p.m.
02:20:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mrs. Capin, second by Mr.
02:20:45 All in favor?
02:20:46 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:20:49 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I want to repeat from last week that the
02:20:52 12th annual Richard run for life is November 1 at 7:00 p.m.
02:20:58 Ybor Centennial Park.
02:21:00 Last year they raised $85,000.
02:21:02 I also want to mention that Mr. Richard Gonzmart called me,
02:21:07 and this will be dedicated in part to my husband Juan Capin.
02:21:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
02:21:19 Mr. Suarez.
02:21:20 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I wanted to reiterate some of the things Mr.
02:21:25 Cohen said in relation to Dottie Berger MacKinnon in terms
02:21:28 of children, part of large sibling groups, it's most
02:21:33 difficult to adopt, the most difficult -- people don't
02:21:37 typically do it.
02:21:37 It's one of the great things that she was able to do.
02:21:41 There are other groups like everyday blessings which I was
02:21:44 involved in at one point that was doing that.
02:21:48 And the amount of work that it takes to get people to
02:21:51 understand to keep large sibling groups together is
02:21:57 In terms of the way people adopt, they always go for one or
02:22:01 two children, and there may be a group of five.
02:22:04 And when you can adopt all five of them it makes it
02:22:08 extremely hard on the rest of the siblings to have to be
02:22:11 spread out all over the county.
02:22:13 Our thoughts and prayers are with the MacKinnon family.
02:22:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
02:22:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just for the record I'm filing with the
02:22:22 clerk the minutes from the T.H.A.N. meeting of September
02:22:26 that council members attended.
02:22:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Need a motion to receive and file those
02:22:29 Motion which Mr. Suarez.
02:22:30 Second by Mr. Cohen.
02:22:32 All in favor of the motion? Opposed?
02:22:35 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:22:36 Item number 55.
02:22:37 Yes, sir.
02:22:53 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you for coming down.
02:22:55 And I see we have a process of voting today for a $200,000
02:23:01 contract for this construction.
02:23:04 And the reason I raise it, that I pulled this, is because it
02:23:12 started to concern me with the city's bidding process that
02:23:16 we continue to award these low bidders contracts to do work
02:23:26 in the city, and then we have had a string of these
02:23:28 businesses that are defaulting on these contracts lately.
02:23:34 And I'm just wondering, is there a mechanism in place to vet
02:23:46 these businesses to see if they can do the workload, or is
02:23:50 the city doing a good job in investigating these businesses
02:23:55 to determine -- and I don't have anything against small
02:24:04 businesses, and I love to see them get work, but what cost
02:24:07 is it costing the city to have to, when they default on a
02:24:12 contract, the city has to go out and hire another company to
02:24:17 fulfill that contract to do the work?
02:24:22 And so this is a contract that's awarded because somebody
02:24:29 defaults on the contract.
02:24:32 >> That's correct.
02:24:33 >> Do we have a mechanism in place, since we have a
02:24:40 continuance, that a lot of these small businesses,
02:24:42 especially low bidders, are defaulting on these contracts,
02:24:46 is there a mechanism in place to try to prevent this from
02:24:49 happening in the future? And third, each time one of these
02:24:56 cracks defaults, and, what's it costing the city to get new
02:25:09 contracts to do the work.
02:25:10 Those are my three areas of concern.
02:25:12 >> So let me see if I can at least from the public works
02:25:16 perspective, and specifically on this particular contract,
02:25:20 try to frame some of the answers to some of your concerns.
02:25:25 First of all, in public works, even though there have been
02:25:30 defaults for contractors, each situation, I believe, has to
02:25:37 be evaluated on its own merit.
02:25:39 And I use this one as an example.
02:25:41 There are contract issues because of the -- in this case, I
02:25:48 think one of the things that when we talk to them,
02:25:53 principals in the company, one of the things that puts them
02:25:55 in the situation, this year we had just over 44 inches of
02:26:01 observed rain during the period where we normally get about
02:26:05 26 inches.
02:26:07 And the interesting thing about this year was we didn't have
02:26:09 a large tropical storm or rain event where you got a
02:26:14 significant portion of that in one particular time.
02:26:16 So because of the way they planned their work, and because
02:26:20 of the other contractors they had in place, it precluded
02:26:25 them from effectively scheduling their work in order to meet
02:26:29 our needs.
02:26:31 And they went into this with the understanding of what the
02:26:37 requirements were.
02:26:38 Staff worked very carefully with them to make sure they
02:26:44 understood what was needed and it was a give and take as far
02:26:47 as scheduling.
02:26:48 But at the end of the day they were not able to complete our
02:26:51 So we went to the next low bidder here, again who we have
02:26:57 been working with to try to make sure that we ensure that
02:27:02 the needs of the city are met.
02:27:04 We are trying to be good stewards of our taxpayer dollars,
02:27:08 especially in a situation where there are potential safety
02:27:13 issues, things of that nature, that are involved, and these
02:27:21 are just normal maintenance efforts that we are involving,
02:27:25 and I'm speaking more from the public works perspective.
02:27:30 I don't believe when you start connecting the dots to make
02:27:34 it into a trend, I'm not so sure that we could make that
02:27:39 conclusion, again because each one is a situation has had
02:27:45 specific issues associated with it.
02:27:47 >>FRANK REDDICK: Well, let me just say, since I have been
02:27:53 sitting here, and I think for the last six to eight months,
02:27:58 I have seen more than one of these come through here, where
02:28:04 we have contracted out with someone to do the work because
02:28:06 someone defaulted on the contract.
02:28:08 It might not be in construction services.
02:28:10 It might be in something else.
02:28:14 And in answer directly to the other question I raised, a and
02:28:21 this is --
02:28:25 >> Costs?
02:28:26 >>FRANK REDDICK: Does the city lose funds when we have
02:28:29 to -- when a company defaults?
02:28:36 do we have bonding insurance where we can recoup?
02:28:41 >> Again, it depends on the specific situation.
02:28:43 There are contracts -- many of our construction contracts,
02:28:49 our projects that go through contract administration require
02:28:51 a bond, and in those cases where they default we go to the
02:28:56 surety, and there's a very structured process that we use in
02:29:05 bond in navigating that realm and again protect the city's
02:29:10 In most cases, the situation that we wind up in is where
02:29:17 there isn't a bond, it's a budgeting process, because
02:29:21 depending on the type of money, fits a capital project,
02:29:24 those funds can move from one year to the next.
02:29:29 In a situation like this where you have operating dollars
02:29:32 that are at stake, it's more of -- we are not necessarily
02:29:37 losing money per se.
02:29:38 It becomes an inconvenience to the staff, and also to the
02:29:43 citizens especially when we made a commitment for the city's
02:29:48 work to be done at different times, and then they can't meet
02:29:52 the schedule.
02:29:53 What that does is of course puts our citizens in a
02:29:56 situation, but also the staff now, those operating dollars
02:30:00 must carry forth.
02:30:02 That project then will be funded out of next year's fund.
02:30:07 So the commitment that we make to this year and are unable
02:30:10 to be met now have to be funded out of next year, and
02:30:14 therefore be put on top of all the other commitments.
02:30:17 So that's why again when we identify situations like this,
02:30:24 we want to go ahead and ask and develop a course of action
02:30:28 to allow us again to be good stewards of the city's
02:30:33 resources, but also to meet our commitments to our citizens.
02:30:36 >>FRANK REDDICK: Let me ask you, Greg, a question, because
02:30:45 I want to make my point here.
02:30:48 If I look at item number 54 and 55 on the agenda, basically
02:30:55 what we are doing, I'm raising the same question here.
02:31:03 If we hired someone to go back and mow and remow and remove
02:31:16 all this debris and stuff in the community, and then there's
02:31:20 been similar contracts where we had to go out and rehire
02:31:25 someone else to do the work, when a contractor who was hired
02:31:32 to be do it defaulted on the contract.
02:31:34 And I don't know -- and I'm not placing blame.
02:31:38 But what I am asking, it raises a concern to me, when I keep
02:31:43 seeing where we got to approve the item, and like I say, I
02:31:52 have nothing against small businesses, but I just want to
02:31:55 know if we have a system in place that we can do a better
02:31:59 job of vetting and investigating these small low bidders to
02:32:05 determine if they can handle this workload, because if they
02:32:10 are a mom and pop operation, two or three people, you are
02:32:13 asking them to do a contract to clean up half of one part of
02:32:18 the city, and they can't get it done, and then they find
02:32:21 themselves having to default on the contract, similar to
02:32:26 Sulphur Springs, where they had people defaulted because the
02:32:34 houses they wanted torn down, they couldn't do the work, so
02:32:37 we ask hiring somebody else to do it.
02:32:40 And you are saying -- it seems the same issue here, that a
02:32:50 lot of these low bidders are defaulting.
02:32:52 And I understand you want to go with the low bidder.
02:32:55 Maybe cheapest.
02:32:57 But, you know, you get what you pay for.
02:33:03 You know, that's what we have done.
02:33:10 They couldn't handle the workload.
02:33:11 So I just -- my question is -- and I don't want to belabor
02:33:17 But I want to see if we have a system in place that can do a
02:33:20 better job of getting these low bidders, and if not, are you
02:33:26 going to implement a system where they can be investigated
02:33:29 and determined if they can handle this type of workload for
02:33:33 the contract that they are receiving?
02:33:34 >> Greg: In answer to your question, Councilman Reddick, we
02:33:44 are looking at putting some additional requirements in the
02:33:46 One of the things that Mr. Lee has already talked about is
02:33:50 we do not have a way of knowing if other business that
02:33:57 contractors are going after, and in a lot of instances they
02:34:00 will be bidding on multiple contracts, when the city, the
02:34:03 county, the state, for similar type of work, and their gold
02:34:08 is try to win as many contracts as they possibly can.
02:34:11 In some cases, they may be successful in the contract.
02:34:16 Then it becomes a situation where they have to try to handle
02:34:18 all the work.
02:34:19 And one of the things that we would like to do is to start
02:34:22 asking these contractors in the bid application how much
02:34:25 work do you currently have already, that you are currently
02:34:28 performing for other agencies?
02:34:30 Or how much work are you anticipating going after while you
02:34:35 are pursuing a city contract?
02:34:39 >>FRANK REDDICK: Can I interrupt you a second?
02:34:41 And then I will hush.
02:34:43 Wouldn't it easier to cross reference their names with the
02:34:48 county and the city to determine if they got a county
02:34:50 contract, for example?
02:34:53 >>GREG SPEARMAN: We do some of that now.
02:34:54 But again, while we are -- we do some of that now.
02:34:58 But with other agencies and they happen to win more than
02:35:03 one, that we don't know about.
02:35:06 The contractor has to tell us about that. But the other
02:35:13 thing that I agree would be helpful, in certain situations
02:35:16 like the contract, to have a detailed contract
02:35:22 administration plan in place, particularly in a contract
02:35:27 that has a wide impact in terms of city services.
02:35:29 And we are developing a template we are using for the
02:35:35 collections contract of solid waste services so that we can
02:35:38 have the city and the contract on the same page and
02:35:41 monitoring that, and basically doing it on a quarterly
02:35:46 So we are looking at asking the providers how many contracts
02:35:49 do you currently have in existence, number one, and
02:35:52 providing information to them that you are pursuing, and
02:35:55 then secondly how can we monitor these as we move forward to
02:35:58 make sure that they are staying on task and also that the
02:36:02 city can hold them accountable, and do that on a frequent
02:36:06 basis, probably a quarterly basis.
02:36:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Montelione?
02:36:13 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I understand where you are coming from
02:36:16 and what your concerns are.
02:36:19 I have some concerns about the responses that we just
02:36:21 received from the gentleman.
02:36:24 And I'm sorry that Mr. Hart isn't here as well to address
02:36:27 this, because, you know, we want to support our small
02:36:31 We want to support our minority contractors.
02:36:33 And, you know, the issue I have -- and Mr. Hart and I
02:36:39 discussed this two years ago after I first got elected --
02:36:43 was that we have a minority certification program, but we
02:36:46 don't have any support system in place for those minority
02:36:51 Or for the very small businesses or I always ask you, you
02:36:55 know, you put it in the reports now on a regular basis.
02:36:57 You didn't when we first took office is, you know, what the
02:37:01 percentage of minority participation is when you are bidding
02:37:05 a contract.
02:37:06 So what I would like to see is support for these companies.
02:37:10 I mean, what I'm hearing is that it's more of maybe being
02:37:18 penalized for being small rather than being supported for
02:37:22 being small.
02:37:23 And the question of how many contracts are you bidding on at
02:37:28 any one given time, I mean, I know with the construction
02:37:30 company that my domestic partner operates, we might bid on
02:37:35 six different projects and get none of them.
02:37:38 So I wouldn't want to, you know, put a bid in where we don't
02:37:42 do any work with the City of Tampa.
02:37:44 I just want to put that on the record.
02:37:46 We also don't do any work with Hillsborough County for
02:37:50 pretty much the same reason.
02:37:51 But, you know, I don't want to have a bid in for Pasco
02:37:56 County or Pinellas County or Polk County and be judged
02:38:00 because I also have other bids with other places, and that
02:38:04 also doesn't account for any of the personal private work
02:38:07 that we might have if we are just asking for what other
02:38:11 government agency contracts that you are bidding on.
02:38:13 So I am not sure that that process that you just explained,
02:38:18 and the questions you are asking during the bid process, is
02:38:21 either fair or going to produce accurate results or going to
02:38:27 produce the results that you are after, or that Mr. Reddick
02:38:31 There's got to be some other way of providing support to
02:38:35 With these projects, these bonded projects -- were these
02:38:40 bonded projects?
02:38:42 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Unless they are public works projects,
02:38:44 $100,000 and above, they are not bonded.
02:38:50 >>LISA MONTELIONE: There's no performance guarantee on any
02:38:52 of these contracts?
02:38:53 >> That's one of the challenges of finding the right
02:38:56 balance, because if you decide to put those types of
02:38:59 requirements in, then you probably are not going to have
02:39:02 contractors who are able to meet those requirements.
02:39:07 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Oh, understood.
02:39:08 >>GREG SPEARMAN: We do think there's some value in terms of
02:39:13 finding out how much existing capacity we have.
02:39:16 We do need to ask the question about what other work you are
02:39:20 currently doing whether it's public or private because that
02:39:22 may provide some indication if they tack on this work --
02:39:27 >>LISA MONTELIONE: But if they don't get any of the work
02:39:29 you are making a judgment call based upon they are going to
02:39:32 get some or a portion of or maybe all of the work that they
02:39:35 are bidding on when in fact they may not get any of it.
02:39:40 You are penalizing them for pursuing opportunities.
02:39:44 >>GREG SPEARMAN: We are asking them --
02:39:47 >>LISA MONTELIONE: You are making a judgment based on that.
02:39:49 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Well, they present themselves to be in a
02:39:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What he's saying is, if he's got one
02:39:58 truck and one lawnmower and he has 20 jobs, and it's really
02:40:04 But I'll get to it in a minute.
02:40:07 I'm sorry to interrupt you.
02:40:08 >>LISA MONTELIONE: We have one employee and two trucks.
02:40:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: One truck isn't driven.
02:40:18 [ Laughter ]
02:40:21 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Each has their own vehicle.
02:40:27 So it's very difficult as a small business.
02:40:29 I mean, we have been struggling just to keep the doors open,
02:40:33 and my significant other has not taken a paycheck in
02:40:36 probably two years.
02:40:37 So I have really deep concern about that type of process
02:40:45 being instituted with small business.
02:40:48 And as far as knowing what the other counties are awarding
02:40:55 and if those contractors are being awarded from other
02:40:59 counties, we are on the demand star list, and for multiple
02:41:03 counties, it's all over the state.
02:41:05 We have done work in Wellington and Palm Beach County off of
02:41:09 our contract that we have been notified from Demand Star.
02:41:13 And we used to have eleven employees.
02:41:20 But the ERP system, is that not going to provide additional
02:41:25 information as far as procurement and what's being awarded
02:41:30 across county and across agency?
02:41:33 >>GREG SPEARMAN: It will be for the City of Tampa and for
02:41:35 Hillsborough County.
02:41:36 Because we are connected.
02:41:37 But for those other entities that are outside the network,
02:41:41 we still have to contact them individually.
02:41:44 The other piece I want to address Councilwoman Montelione is
02:41:48 that I do believe that there may be some value over and
02:41:55 above. I believe that becomes a resource issue in terms of
02:41:59 whoa minority business development has the capacity to do
02:42:02 that, and also purchasing.
02:42:04 That's something we have to sit down to look at how to look
02:42:07 at capacity issues with contractors.
02:42:10 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Even if it's just referral.
02:42:11 We have the small business information center that the City
02:42:13 of Tampa provides funding for that operates Hillsborough
02:42:17 County's economic division.
02:42:19 We also have the small business information center that is a
02:42:22 network of statewide economic development centers that
02:42:26 operates in conjunction with USF.
02:42:28 And there are resources out there, the black business
02:42:31 investment fund, there's the Hispanic businesses investment
02:42:35 There's lots of resources and support.
02:42:37 But I'm not sure that we are giving guidance to those
02:42:42 companies that we are awarding bids to, to make sure they
02:42:45 are successful.
02:42:46 I mean, I don't think we are here to award a contract, and
02:42:49 then, you know, moan and complain when they aren't able to
02:42:56 fulfill our needs when we full well know that, you know, the
02:43:02 small minority business contractors need a little extra
02:43:05 That's why we have sheltered market contracts.
02:43:10 So I think for us, we need to make up our mind whether or
02:43:13 not we are going to promote our small businesses, and
02:43:18 minority contractors, or if we are going to say, well, you
02:43:23 know, we want to help our small businesses, but you can't
02:43:29 perform city work because you just don't have the capacity.
02:43:31 So those are my concerns.
02:43:33 We can talk more about it.
02:43:35 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Those are all points that I will take back
02:43:38 and talk about.
02:43:40 I think that we can actually see how we can --
02:43:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay, I have Mrs. Mulhern, Mr. Suarez,
02:43:48 and Mrs. Capin.
02:43:49 Mrs. Mulhern and Suarez.
02:43:50 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
02:43:55 And thank you, Councilman Reddick, for bringing this up.
02:44:00 It reminded me about the story I read in the paper.
02:44:03 So first of all I would like to say that we approved these
02:44:08 bids on the consent agenda, especially if they are under a
02:44:13 million dollars, usually no question.
02:44:15 In this case, it's not clear from the agenda that this is a
02:44:23 So I think that we need to know on all future agendas when
02:44:29 we are being asked to approve a contract, if this is a
02:44:34 rebid, because --
02:44:37 >>GREG SPEARMAN: We can handle it.
02:44:39 We can do that.
02:44:41 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
02:44:42 I think that's very reasonable.
02:44:43 I think if you are a small business, which many of us are --
02:44:56 But I'm not done.
02:44:57 I guess we are not going to vote on it.
02:44:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Wait a minute.
02:45:01 You said you ain't done.
02:45:04 >>MARY MULHERN: I have another motion I am going to make
02:45:05 P.I wasn't intending that to be a motion.
02:45:08 But I guess I should make that a motion,
02:45:16 The other thing I was going to say, if you are a small
02:45:18 business and you get a contract from the City of Tampa for
02:45:21 $200,000 and you can't do that?
02:45:25 I'm not -- you bit off more than you can chew and that's a
02:45:31 I mean, we do need to help out small businesses and we are
02:45:34 doing that by giving them these contracts.
02:45:36 That's where I would say, in addition to that, if a company
02:45:38 like this one is not able to do it, I hope the next time
02:45:43 than they bid on a contract that is taken into
02:45:46 Maybe like one strike and you're out.
02:45:48 You go back to the bottom of the list.
02:45:52 Don you do that?
02:45:53 >>GREG SPEARMAN: It is, Councilman Mulhern.
02:45:55 In the city charter it actually states that we have the
02:45:57 authority to take into consideration past performance.
02:46:00 >>MARY MULHERN: All right.
02:46:03 Hopefully that will help us.
02:46:04 And I am concerned because I did read about this in the
02:46:07 paper and it seems to be a problem that I didn't know about,
02:46:10 but now I do, and to hear Mr. Lee talk about the problem
02:46:17 being work not being able to be done because of the rain.
02:46:22 I mean, it's the rainy season six months out of the year
02:46:26 Maybe we shouldn't be doing bidding contracts for striping
02:46:30 pavement in the summer months.
02:46:31 I mean, you are always going to have a lot of rain whether
02:46:33 it's all spread out or all in one.
02:46:36 >> In this particular situation that was --
02:46:48 >>MARY MULHERN: I know.
02:46:49 I just wanted to suggest that we keep that in mind.
02:46:52 We live in Florida. It's going to rain in the summer.
02:46:54 Maybe we had to do that because that was new road being put
02:46:58 down, we had to stripe it or whatever.
02:47:01 But in general restriping, we should do it during the dry
02:47:04 And then here is the motion I was going to make.
02:47:06 Maybe it's part of the other one.
02:47:09 I would like to have a report say in a month from contract
02:47:16 administration on the past fiscal year how many of these
02:47:22 bids have had to be rebid for nonconformance, because of
02:47:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have a motion.
02:47:29 We have two motions.
02:47:31 Let's vote on the second motion first made by Mrs. Mulhern,
02:47:34 seconded by Mr. Reddick.
02:47:35 All in favor of that motion indicate by saying aye.
02:47:38 Opposed nay.
02:47:38 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:47:41 The original motion made by Mrs. Mulhern, state it again,
02:47:44 >>MARY MULHERN: (off microphone) oh, that whenever there is
02:47:49 a rebid -- it would be performed, that approval of the new
02:47:58 bid be listed as a rebid on our agenda so that we know a
02:48:04 second rebidding of the contract, that we have already
02:48:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That was seconded by Mrs. Capin.
02:48:10 Let me ask this.
02:48:13 Friendly amendment to that.
02:48:14 Add to it.
02:48:15 Can you say why?
02:48:27 >>GREG SPEARMAN: I think you meant contract, not purchase
02:48:36 >>MARY MULHERN: (off microphone) we are being asked to
02:48:44 approve any bid whether it's contract or purchase
02:48:46 administration, both.
02:48:52 With the friendly amendment.
02:48:54 >>HARRY COHEN: Motion from Councilwoman Mulhern, seconded
02:48:57 by Councilwoman Capin.
02:48:58 All in favor please indicate by saying aye.
02:49:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No.
02:49:05 Mr. Suarez.
02:49:06 >>MIKE SUAREZ: A few points and a quick question.
02:49:09 It's strange because I was just having a conversation with
02:49:11 Mr. Spearman yesterday about our entire process of how we
02:49:14 bid things, and what we are doing.
02:49:16 First thing.
02:49:17 You made a comment that we do not ask for performance bond
02:49:21 for anything that is nonconstruction and under what was the
02:49:26 amount you said?
02:49:27 >>GREG SPEARMAN: 100,000.
02:49:29 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Under 100,000.
02:49:31 Now, this was a $200,000 bid.
02:49:33 What was the process for any kind of default for us to get
02:49:39 What is our recourse for that as opposed to a bond?
02:49:42 >> The city has the ability in the contract to do a default
02:49:48 Depending upon the circumstances, if the city, let's say
02:49:52 something like in the collections contract, we can go back
02:49:54 after the contract and tray to collect those additional
02:49:58 But typically for small contracts, service contract, that is
02:50:03 not something that the city has done previously.
02:50:06 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Have we in the past done anything to
02:50:08 allowing someone to rebid after a year or something new?
02:50:12 Do we have a restriction on that?
02:50:16 >>GREG SPEARMAN: We ask them to show documentation, proof,
02:50:19 evidence, of how they are able to perform the next time
02:50:22 They have to really show us that.
02:50:24 Otherwise they are not awarded the bid.
02:50:26 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Secondly, and this is primarily partly a
02:50:30 statement, partly a question, which is with performance
02:50:34 bonds, I understand what Mrs. Montelione is saying, for any
02:50:39 small business to get the kind of performance bond
02:50:41 especially construction industry, the amount of money that
02:50:44 we require, not that it's exorbitant but that there are the
02:50:50 bonding companies require a personal guarantee typically in
02:50:52 order to get a bond, and that is true for a company that is
02:50:56 very small or even now because of the financial crisis, even
02:51:00 larger companies have to provide personal guarantees for
02:51:04 We have seen somebody very large construction companies go
02:51:07 out of business in the last five years, which meant that
02:51:14 they could be not work on any job.
02:51:19 My question to you, and this is something that had
02:51:22 conversation with Mr. Hart during the time that I was on the
02:51:25 equal business opportunity advisory committee, which is that
02:51:28 there is no real way to get small businesses, more of these
02:51:34 contracts, without the contra veiling bonding authority.
02:51:38 And that's something that we don't have any control over.
02:51:40 That is ruled primarily by the financial wherewithal of the
02:51:44 particular company.
02:51:45 And I assume that is correct.
02:51:48 And when we talk about trying to help the small business,
02:51:50 I'm all for it.
02:51:51 The problem is that we have the counter veiling balance that
02:51:57 we have to provide and protect the City of Tampa, and we
02:52:02 can't have one without the other.
02:52:03 So for us, the problem is that it's harder to get a bonding
02:52:07 authority when you are a smaller business, it's harder if
02:52:11 you have bad finances, and if you were a business in 2008
02:52:14 until now, chances had are you have got some bad finances in
02:52:17 your background.
02:52:18 And it's going to be extremely difficult to rebuild that
02:52:21 over the course of the next five, ten years.
02:52:25 And lastly, Greg, this is something that we talked about
02:52:28 I think we need a clear definition better how the process
02:52:31 works when we do bids and rebids, because I think that part
02:52:35 of the problem is the requirements that come from the
02:52:39 different departments to your department in order for
02:52:41 purchase, those other contractual obligations that we are
02:52:45 looking at for each one of those bid jobs, and I think that
02:52:52 we really need to kind of take a closer look at the
02:52:56 requirements that are given to you, and then secondly the
02:52:58 way that we run our RFPs and contracts to make sure they
02:53:03 are a little tighter, a little better managed so that is
02:53:05 correct we can go forward.
02:53:06 Again, this is not laying blame anywhere.
02:53:09 It's just that I think thought process needs to maybe be
02:53:12 tweaked a little bit so that we can tighten things up.
02:53:14 It sounds like we are doing some of that already.
02:53:17 >>GREG SPEARMAN: We are.
02:53:19 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And anything that we can do to help out, we
02:53:21 As you know, we have a very arms-length relationship when it
02:53:24 comes to these bids.
02:53:26 And we can't be involved in them.
02:53:28 You know that.
02:53:29 We all know that.
02:53:30 So we can provide some guidance on the process, though, and
02:53:32 hopefully you will reach out to us and we'll reach out to
02:53:35 you and tell you what we think should be done.
02:53:38 Thank you, chair.
02:53:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Capin?
02:53:44 >>YVONNE CAPIN: On those small businesses, I'm wondering if
02:53:56 there's any way that the city could help these small
02:54:03 businesses with their bonding, because they have no other --
02:54:09 they have no recourse.
02:54:11 They don't have the wherewithal to personally guarantee.
02:54:16 If they aren't going to be able to show that they can.
02:54:19 I remember when I signed a lease in a very big mall, and I
02:54:22 took the lease, showed to the our attorney and he shoved it
02:54:29 back across the desk at me and he said to me and my husband,
02:54:32 just don't personally guarantee anything.
02:54:35 And we worked it out with the mall.
02:54:38 But I'm just wondering, you know, small businesses are very
02:54:44 important to our economy.
02:54:46 And they do employ, you know, a lot of people in our city.
02:54:51 And that engine keeps going.
02:54:55 So I don't have the answer.
02:54:56 But I would like to, you know, put it out, have we ever had
02:55:01 anything where we helped the small business with their
02:55:03 bonding, or he --
02:55:07 >>GREG SPEARMAN: I believe that Mr. Hart looked at
02:55:10 I don't know the specifics of what the investigation has
02:55:15 That's been a topic of discussion we talked about.
02:55:19 So I think found out with that particular investigation, and
02:55:27 perhaps have him provide something back to council on that.
02:55:35 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I would like to hear if there's anything
02:55:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mrs. Capin.
02:55:39 Let me say this.
02:55:39 Four years ago, in a previous council, this was brought up.
02:55:42 Four years ago I said we are going to hit the road.
02:55:48 What happens is what happened.
02:55:52 And said if it's a bonding problem, and that's it, nothing
02:55:55 about the credit, it was bonding money, we will loan the
02:55:57 money and pay for the bond through city funds off that
02:56:03 The contract then would be the responsible payer back to the
02:56:07 city for those bonds.
02:56:09 So that everything is equal.
02:56:10 Why equal?
02:56:11 Because if you have companies that bid, and some have the
02:56:15 bonding capacity and some don't, and this one is certainly
02:56:18 at an advantage -- and I don't want an advantage for either
02:56:22 one -- but on the same token, I said that I remember that
02:56:26 saying we loaned the money and we take it back as we make
02:56:30 the draw, payment, and we see what's done, and you take your
02:56:34 percent out, and carry the bond for that quarter.
02:56:37 And I never heard back from him.
02:56:41 So that's what it was, Mrs. Capin, and all of us here, to
02:56:45 make the seesaw level, not on one side, not guilty one way
02:56:51 or the other.
02:56:52 I can't tell you what else has been done.
02:56:54 But I can tell you this.
02:56:57 There are some things that come up that no one can fix.
02:57:00 I don't know if they bid and I don't know if those bids are
02:57:06 done correctly, and when they bid, they forget that they
02:57:09 have to when they bid, do we know that they have the
02:57:13 equipment to do it?
02:57:14 Now, you can get a contract, take that contract to the bank,
02:57:17 and that contract may or may not give you the funding to buy
02:57:21 the equipment.
02:57:21 I don't know that.
02:57:23 But these things happen in small business.
02:57:26 They happen in business big.
02:57:27 You get the contracts.
02:57:28 You can go get the money.
02:57:30 You don't get the contract, you get zero.
02:57:34 And those are things that I can't solve today.
02:57:37 None of us can, I don't believe.
02:57:38 But the bid process, I have talked to the chief of staff
02:57:42 about that, on the bonds, and I think you ought to talk to
02:57:46 him, also.
02:57:47 Because it's been discussed.
02:57:50 Anything else?
02:57:55 Item 58.
02:57:58 Move to approved.
02:57:59 Seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
02:58:03 >>YVONNE CAPIN: It's transportation.
02:58:07 Move item 58.
02:58:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I hope you get a second now.
02:58:13 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I think I got it.
02:58:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Reddick seconds that motion.
02:58:17 All in favor?
02:58:18 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:58:19 Anything else to come before this council?
02:58:21 Receive and file all the documents for today?
02:58:23 I have a motion by Mrs. Mulhern.
02:58:26 Seconded by Mr. Suarez.
02:58:27 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
02:58:30 Opposed nay.
02:58:31 Ayes have it unanimously.
02:58:32 Yes, sir.
02:58:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have had several meetings now where
02:58:36 you have reordered your order of business to allow staff to
02:58:41 be heard immediately after public comment so they can
02:58:44 consider legislative matters.
02:58:45 Would council be inclined to direct me to make that a
02:58:49 permanent change to the order of business?
02:58:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I believe it's working pretty well.
02:58:54 I don't know about the other members.
02:58:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Mulhern to that
02:59:00 Seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
02:59:01 All in favor of the motion?
02:59:04 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:59:05 Anything else to come before this council?
02:59:07 Anyone of you 500 people care to come up?
02:59:11 We stand adjourned.
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