Tampa City Council
Thursday, October 24, 2013
5:30 p.m. Session
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05:33:22 [Sounding gavel]
05:33:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: City Council is called to order.
05:33:25 Roll call.
05:33:25 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
05:33:29 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
05:33:30 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
05:33:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
05:33:35 Item number 1.
05:33:41 The resolution setting an adoption public hearing on
05:33:44 November 14th for the year 2013 at 5:30.
05:33:48 >> So moved.
05:33:50 >> Second.
05:33:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Suarez.
05:33:52 Second by Mr. Cohen.
05:33:53 All in favor of the motion?
05:33:56 The ayes have it unanimously.
05:33:59 All right.
05:34:00 Item number 2 is a public hearing, non-quasi-judicial
05:34:07 Who is doing the presentation?
05:34:08 I know I'm not.
05:34:09 >> Richard Davis.
05:34:16 And I'm here on behalf of the applicant for the
05:34:18 comprehensive plan amendment.
05:34:20 And we respectfully request a continuance as noted in the
05:34:25 We are working with the neighborhood on developing responses
05:34:29 to particular issues, as well as, council, we anticipate
05:34:33 between now and the next public hearing, we will also file a
05:34:37 companion PD which will take our process with the
05:34:42 neighborhoods to the next level.
05:34:43 So we --
05:34:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What do we have in November and
05:34:46 December? I don't know what we have in November, how many
05:34:49 cases we have got.
05:34:49 >> November 14th evening session, there is one
05:34:59 annexation, public hearing rezoning public hearings and a
05:35:04 cultural assets committee report.
05:35:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seven hearings.
05:35:14 Do you have time to work it out between November and
05:35:16 November 19th?
05:35:23 Rebecca, do you have any problem with that?
05:35:25 >>REBECCA KERT: No.
05:35:28 I would just like to call to your attention I believe at
05:35:32 nature you have an additional plan amendment which is not
05:35:35 yet calendared.
05:35:36 >>HARRY COHEN: Well, I move the continuance to November
05:35:52 14th at 6:00 p.m.
05:35:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone in the audience here to speak on
05:35:56 the continuance portion request only?
05:36:00 I see no one.
05:36:03 Let me go back and open these public hearings, because one
05:36:08 was a resolution, and I want to make sure that item 2, 3, 4,
05:36:14 5 and 7 are open.
05:36:16 Need a motion.
05:36:17 Motion by Mr. Suarez.
05:36:18 Second by Mr. Cohen.
05:36:19 All in favor of the motion indicate by saying aye.
05:36:22 Opposed nay.
05:36:22 The ayes have it unanimously.
05:36:24 On item number 2, the petitioner has requested a change,
05:36:29 continuance to November 14th at 6:00 p.m.
05:36:36 I have a motion by Mr. Cohen, seconded by Mr. Suarez on a
05:36:39 close vote with Mrs. Mulhern.
05:36:41 And anyone in the audience that wants to speak for or
05:36:45 against the continuance?
05:36:46 I see no one.
05:36:48 Need a motion to close.
05:36:48 >> So moved.
05:36:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm sorry, motion to continue, Mr.
05:36:56 Suarez, to the 14th of November.
05:37:01 The ayes have it unanimously.
05:37:03 That's continued.
05:37:04 Item number 3.
05:37:05 >> Number 3 through cannot be heard until 6:00 p.m.
05:37:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just wanted to see how fast you could
05:37:14 get up to the mike.
05:37:16 All right.
05:37:17 In that case, we stand in recess until 6:00.
05:37:22 >> (City Council in recess until 6:00 p.m.)
06:02:13 [Sounding gavel]
06:02:14 >> City Council is called to order. Roll call.
06:02:16 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
06:02:20 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
06:02:22 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
06:02:23 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
06:02:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
06:02:29 The 6:00 public hearing, items 3 and 4 are
06:02:36 And I need a motion to open hearings 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7.
06:02:41 >> So moved.
06:02:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Suarez to open
06:02:44 the hearings.
06:02:45 Seconded by Mr. Cohen.
06:02:46 All in favor of the motion?
06:02:49 The ayes have it unanimously.
06:02:52 As we go along, 5, 6 and 7, those are quasi-judicial so we
06:02:57 are going to ask you in a little bit to take the oath and be
06:03:00 sworn in.
06:03:01 We go to item number 3 first.
06:03:03 >> Good evening, council.
06:03:10 City attorney's office, on item number 3.
06:03:12 This item is the first of two public hearings for the
06:03:14 proposed area designation for the Tampa Waterworks Park
06:03:19 property, 1812 north Highland.
06:03:21 This designation is proposed by the city's administration in
06:03:25 conjunction with the planned redevelopment of the Waterworks
06:03:31 As you know, the park is the site of the old Tampa water
06:03:34 works building, which was used as a pump station to
06:03:40 distribute potable water to city residents.
06:03:43 The site has also formally been used as a maintenance
06:03:49 facility by the city's department of public works.
06:03:53 Any questions you may have regarding the staff report we
06:03:56 submitted as part of your backup material, Mr. Fahey is here
06:04:00 to answer those.
06:04:01 Just as a remainder no action on your part tonight.
06:04:04 This is simply a public hearing for you to receive public
06:04:07 >> Questions by council members?
06:04:10 Anyone in the audience care to speak on item number 3 on the
06:04:13 brownfield designation for rehab of the 5.59 acres in the
06:04:21 vicinity of 1812 north Highland Avenue?
06:04:23 Public hearing.
06:04:24 Anyone in the public care to speak on item number 3?
06:04:26 I see no one.
06:04:28 I have a motion to close by Mr. Reddick.
06:04:30 Seconded by Mr. Cohen.
06:04:31 All in favor of the motion?
06:04:33 The ayes have it unanimously.
06:04:35 Let me also say that the second hearing will be held on
06:04:38 November 7th the year 2013 at 10:30 in the morning.
06:04:44 Thank you very much for attending.
06:04:46 Item number 4.
06:04:47 >> Cathy Ginster, city attorney's office, here on the first
06:04:56 public hearing, similar to the last you heard for brownfield
06:05:02 designation for city owned property located at 1103 north
06:05:06 Nebraska Avenue.
06:05:07 This is the first two of public hearings that are required
06:05:09 under the brownfield redevelopment statute.
06:05:12 And the staff report is on file at the city clerk's office
06:05:19 for public view.
06:05:20 And the second public hearing is scheduled for November
06:05:22 7th at 10:30 a.m. where council is going to be requested
06:05:28 to approve the designation of the property.
06:05:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
06:05:31 Any comments by council members?
06:05:32 Anyone in the audience care to speak on item number 4?
06:05:35 It's property December -- brownfield designation, 1.54 acres
06:05:41 inside the City of Tampa.
06:05:42 Anyone want to speak on item number 4?
06:05:44 Need a motion to close.
06:05:46 Motion to close by Mr. Reddick, seconded by Mr. Suarez.
06:05:50 Further discussion by council members?
06:05:51 All in favor of the motion to close?
06:05:55 The hearing is closed.
06:05:56 Now, items 5, 6 and 7 are quasi-judicial, and they are a
06:06:01 little different so the clerk will swear in anyone who
06:06:03 thinks about, will think about or wants to speak at this
06:06:06 (Oath administered by Clerk)
06:06:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 5.
06:06:19 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Planning and development.
06:06:23 The first item, C-13-09 is the vacating for multiple
06:06:28 rights-of-way of way within the area known as the Heights.
06:06:32 This particular item and the next item are related.
06:06:36 I spoke with Mr. Shelby before the hearing earlier today.
06:06:39 We talked about how we basically discuss them in order and
06:06:45 combining them.
06:06:46 First I will go through the vacating, and just to outline
06:06:49 the rights-of-way that are being proposed to be vacated, and
06:06:53 then I would like to move straight into the rezoning, to
06:06:56 have you understand how the grid works, how the grid is
06:06:59 actually going to be changed, and then talk about the
06:07:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Montelione?
06:07:05 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Ms. Coyle, before we get started, I just
06:07:09 want to say, we talked about this briefly about 30 seconds
06:07:13 ago before we walked out here, and I just spoke to Mr.
06:07:18 McDonaugh as well.
06:07:19 And some of this backup material we only got at 10:30 this
06:07:25 And this backup material, you just gave to the me a minute
06:07:32 and a half ago.
06:07:33 So none of us had the opportunity to review the site plan.
06:07:38 It wasn't available in the conference room as it usually is
06:07:41 before land use meetings, just got the community design
06:07:48 In fact dated October 23rd.
06:07:51 And we don't have the development order, which is on the
06:07:55 calendar for hearing November 7th.
06:07:58 So within the staff report and within some of the other
06:08:03 documents it refers to the development agreement, which we
06:08:07 will not see probably for another couple of days.
06:08:11 Mr. McDonaugh said we would probably have it in a couple of
06:08:14 days which I'm guessing is Monday or Tuesday of next week.
06:08:17 So I'm not sure how -- I don't know, I can't speak for the
06:08:22 rest, but I don't know how I can look at it, analyze it,
06:08:25 relate to it, and make a decision based on either things
06:08:28 that I am just seeing for the first time right now,
06:08:31 literally, or things that I won't see for another few days.
06:08:36 And I just want to start out by making that statement, and
06:08:41 might be subject to a lot of questions, or I don't know that
06:08:45 I can comfortably make a decision on how I feel about going
06:08:50 forward without having that information, or having reviewed
06:08:53 the information.
06:08:53 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I understand.
06:08:56 You are correct.
06:08:56 The site plan and the final revision of them came in
06:09:02 yesterday, and it has been myself and the rest of the team
06:09:05 working with the developer to revise and recraft those
06:09:08 documents to make sure that they are reconciled with current
06:09:12 code, and with current process, and to clean them up.
06:09:15 What I want to make council aware of -- and I don't think
06:09:18 any of you were on council when the last one was actually
06:09:20 adopted, but this is not a new building.
06:09:23 It is a PD-A that already exists.
06:09:27 Two of you were, okay.
06:09:29 It's been a very long time for myself since I did it.
06:09:34 Well, 2006.
06:09:35 So it's seven-plus years since it was adopted originally.
06:09:39 But what you will notice in the staff report -- and I
06:09:44 brought extra copies for you as well -- I am did give you a
06:09:47 comparison of entitlements, and the entitlements are
06:09:50 identical as far as the number of units, square footage,
06:09:53 commercial and so on.
06:09:54 And what this was for the rezoning purposes is really to
06:09:59 update and refresh the design standards to match an example
06:10:05 the streetlights that we are using in Waterworks Park, the
06:10:08 developer is modeling his material after that, and it's also
06:10:14 to model itself after the latest code because the code has
06:10:19 changed since 2006.
06:10:20 So it took awhile to get through all those revisions.
06:10:23 And that's actually what's before you today.
06:10:26 So it's not brand new rezoning.
06:10:29 It's a re-rezoning, what we call it.
06:10:33 So I can move forward with the vacating if you like, just to
06:10:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Mulhern.
06:10:40 >>MARY MULHERN: (off microphone) I was not here in 2006.
06:10:46 I started in 2007.
06:10:47 But is this the old project -- that did come in front of us,
06:10:56 all of the rezonings.
06:10:57 I don't know if the land use changes did, but the
06:11:01 development agreement, the rezoning.
06:11:05 And there was a revision -- Councilman Montelione has backup
06:11:11 materials that hi don't.
06:11:13 >>LISA MONTELIONE: This was handed to me literally five
06:11:15 minutes ago.
06:11:17 >> I was going to hand it out.
06:11:19 I haven't gotten to the rezoning yet.
06:11:21 She specifically wanted her copy so I gave her the copy.
06:11:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
06:11:28 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The vacating marked in yellow, there are
06:11:31 14 alleys on 7th street requested to be vacated.
06:11:35 There are also two rights-of-way, two streets being reduced
06:11:39 from 65 to 50 feet.
06:11:41 This is modeled after the previous vacating which actually
06:11:44 started in '11, the additional vacating.
06:11:50 There are certain hurdles noted in the ordinance that the
06:11:53 developer has to be actually meet in order for the streets
06:11:56 to be fully vacated.
06:11:57 However, there are specifically noted was Palm Avenue, in
06:12:04 the previous vacating Palm Avenue was being vacated and
06:12:07 realigned slightly.
06:12:09 He's actually leaving palm open, and as dedicated
06:12:12 right-of-way, and retooling it slightly with potential
06:12:16 traffic circles for better circulation which you will see in
06:12:19 the rezoning.
06:12:21 So there is a fair reduction in square footage being
06:12:26 And just to show you some of the pictures, this is one of
06:12:33 the allies looking west from Garcia.
06:12:35 Many of these allies are actually unimproved and the streets
06:12:40 are unimproved as well, so you wouldn't see most of them if
06:12:43 you were out there.
06:12:45 They are on a map.
06:12:46 Some of the allies are improved with asphalt or broken up
06:12:49 This is actually an alley, plotted alley looking east from
06:12:54 This is another alley that's platted looking south from OLA.
06:13:03 This is property looking west from OLA.
06:13:06 This is alley looking north from palm.
06:13:10 You can see many of these are unimproved.
06:13:12 They are just on a map.
06:13:13 This is an alley looking north from palm.
06:13:16 This is OLA Avenue looking south from Palm Avenue.
06:13:19 And this is one of the rights-of-way that has the strip
06:13:26 being vacated.
06:13:27 This is Massachusetts looking north from palm.
06:13:29 This is obviously the street, not an alley.
06:13:33 This is another alley looking west from Massachusetts.
06:13:38 This is an alley looking east from Massachusetts.
06:13:43 This is the one segment that does exist at Garcia at palm,
06:13:48 shoots north up to --
06:13:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me stop you there.
06:13:53 You still have the floor, Ms. Mulhern, and then I have got
06:13:57 Ms. Capin.
06:13:57 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry.
06:14:01 They asked me to vacate?
06:14:03 >> He's asking to vacate that and the reason being by
06:14:06 keeping palm open and the configuration of the grid he's
06:14:09 actually creating a two-way palm.
06:14:12 Palm will no longer be just in.
06:14:15 He's looking at creating a two-way palm and redoing the
06:14:18 intersection on North Boulevard for better flow.
06:14:21 >>YVONNE CAPIN: But two ways from North Boulevard to
06:14:27 Garcia, because otherwise it's two way, correct?
06:14:34 I don't understand why we are vacating Garcia.
06:14:38 That to me seems excessive.
06:14:43 Vacating all the alleys.
06:14:46 But Garcia, to the neighborhood it's like cutting off the
06:14:53 other neighborhoods from this part.
06:14:56 When I look at all that's being vacated, it looks like to
06:15:04 That's my thought.
06:15:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say this.
06:15:08 I have a different view on that. I don't think -- at 5:00
06:15:15 or 6:00 you take that exit, you take your life in your
06:15:18 You just can't do it.
06:15:20 But I do take this.
06:15:22 I go Florida to palm, left on palm, and when I turn here,
06:15:26 about two days ago, I was in the turn, and it was still 16
06:15:31 cars behind me.
06:15:33 So it does get backed up.
06:15:34 And let me tell you that road is in terrible shape.
06:15:37 That one and the one just north of it.
06:15:41 Today, when I passed by going home, on break, they were
06:15:46 fixing the potholes.
06:15:48 But it looks like measles.
06:15:53 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The other thing to take in perspective,
06:15:55 and I take this route a lot, too, the traffic on palm, and
06:16:00 because it's one way in from North Boulevard --
06:16:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It's a hazard.
06:16:04 >> It's forcing the traffic north directly into
06:16:06 single-family homes.
06:16:09 So by two way from North Boulevard --
06:16:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: When you are heading east coming this
06:16:16 direction, again, that intersection there, they yell keep
06:16:23 going because nobody stops there.
06:16:24 You can have an accident there anytime you go by there.
06:16:27 Ms. Capin?
06:16:28 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Well, I understand two waying.
06:16:32 I never did understand that little strip to Garcia.
06:16:39 But when I looked at all the vacating, I thought this was
06:16:42 the only avenue that's open to the other side.
06:16:48 >> I think in the rezoning you will see the grid and I think
06:16:51 it will make a little better sense, two connections north,
06:16:55 not just one.
06:16:58 This is Garcia Avenue looking south from palm.
06:17:03 It's like a little brick path, the back of the Metropolitan
06:17:09 This is Oak Avenue looking west from OLA.
06:17:13 This is an alley looking north from Oak.
06:17:17 Another alley looking north from Oak.
06:17:22 This is Massachusetts Avenue, which is essentially just
06:17:26 compressed gravel.
06:17:28 This is north from Oak Avenue.
06:17:31 This is another alley east, looking east from Massachusetts.
06:17:35 And this is an alley looking west from Massachusetts.
06:17:43 That will give you a highlight of the various alleys and
06:17:46 streets in the area.
06:17:49 Based on the conditions that have been worked through with
06:17:51 the utility agencies and the various departments within the
06:17:57 city, all objections have been removed from the vacating and
06:18:00 the conditions have been found satisfactory by both external
06:18:05 utilities and internal utilities.
06:18:06 And I believe there was an ordinance presented.
06:18:14 If I could, just to answer the bigger question, I will go
06:18:17 into the rezoning so you can get an idea of the grid itself.
06:18:43 I apologize for coughing.
06:18:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Ms. Coyle, there's only three copies of
06:19:04 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I gave one to Ms. Mulhern.
06:19:07 They are very large.
06:19:13 just to highlight the zoning map -- and you can see in the
06:19:19 zoning map the various streets and alleys are platted.
06:19:23 And you will note that the bulk of the property is PD-A
06:19:28 There are a couple of parcels that this particular property
06:19:30 owner, developer has been able to acquire.
06:19:33 So now the property does front Tampa street.
06:19:35 So it is a complete property up to the other arterial, which
06:19:39 is nice because they both have frontage now on one of the
06:19:44 main north-south areas of the city so there is additional
06:19:49 property that's zoned CI and CG included.
06:19:56 This is the current aerial for the property.
06:20:00 And you will note that the property has been cleared for the
06:20:03 most part, with the exception of the Metropolitan Ministries
06:20:08 which is there only temporarily during the holiday season.
06:20:10 The armature works building.
06:20:12 And the parcels in blue are the parcels that are not
06:20:15 There is two single-family structures here and then the
06:20:19 little crab shack on the corner of Ross and Boulevard.
06:20:31 The site plan is four pages with various details on each.
06:20:35 But just to give you an overview, the grid itself, you will
06:20:38 note cuts essentially right here running north-south.
06:20:43 And Palm Avenue is eastbound only one way.
06:20:49 And you will note that now palm would become a two-way
06:20:52 circulator with a connection at Boulevard.
06:20:55 The traffic circle/roundabout at this intersection obviously
06:20:59 needs to be fully designed.
06:21:03 Pete is our chief design engineer with transportation has
06:21:07 given the conceptual okay to it.
06:21:10 It is come off the decline from this ridge, which can create
06:21:13 issues with visibility.
06:21:15 So it may be shifted a little to the north.
06:21:17 It just depends.
06:21:18 But we are looking at the opportunity to actually have the
06:21:21 two-way circulation which will improve traffic throughout
06:21:24 the area.
06:21:25 It will also take that traffic away from the northbound into
06:21:29 the residential.
06:21:31 And then we have the north connection here which breaks up
06:21:34 this big block that already exists, and bifurcates it.
06:21:39 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilman Capin?
06:21:43 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Which one of those at Garcia is going to
06:21:47 remain Garcia?
06:21:48 >> This is actually Garcia here.
06:21:56 I do know road names are always subject to change.
06:22:04 Massachusetts which doesn't exist on the north is the one
06:22:07 that will actually cut through and that way these blocks are
06:22:10 broken up into more walkable section.
06:22:12 Because right now, this is massive and very difficult to
06:22:17 walk, and it's a shorter distance.
06:22:20 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilman Mulhern.
06:22:25 >>MARY MULHERN: So what we are looking at right there --
06:22:28 oh, okay.
06:22:29 Leave it.
06:22:29 It will be helpful.
06:22:32 So these streets are new?
06:22:35 Some of them are new?
06:22:36 Or there's the existing grid.
06:22:46 >> Massachusetts is a platted right-of-way which doesn't
06:22:49 exist in an approved state but does exist -- however, what's
06:22:53 going to be happening, it's vacated because it's a direct
06:22:56 north-south 90º angle from palm.
06:22:59 It will be essentially replatted and shifted.
06:23:01 The reason for this angle is to maintain the view corridor
06:23:05 with a downtown angle.
06:23:07 As you know, our streets are angled downtown throughout the
06:23:11 So the concept from its original concept is 2006, and this
06:23:15 developer is actually carrying it through, is that they
06:23:17 maintain those view corridors.
06:23:19 It's the first area right outside downtown to maintain those
06:23:22 view corridors.
06:23:23 >>MARY MULHERN: Here is what I am trying to ask you.
06:23:26 The streets that we are looking at on this map here, which
06:23:30 this looks like a different one but I'm sure it's the same,
06:23:34 okay, are those streets, these are not in the same place as
06:23:43 the two that they are asking to vacate, or they are?
06:23:48 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Some of them are.
06:23:50 I'll show you an example here.
06:23:57 Different scale.
06:23:58 This quad block here, which is Oak, Highland, Tampa to the
06:24:02 east, and OLA, that is the quad block that's here.
06:24:05 >> That we are not changing?
06:24:11 >>CATHERINE COYLE: What are being vacated are the alleys and
06:24:14 strips along these rights-of-way.
06:24:15 >>MARY MULHERN: Why would we vacate public streets that are
06:24:20 still going to be --
06:24:23 >> You are not vacating the entire street.
06:24:25 You are vacating a small strip.
06:24:27 >>MARY MULHERN: A strip?
06:24:30 Along the side?
06:24:32 >> Along the side, on each side.
06:24:34 And that corresponds, correlates, rather, to the public
06:24:38 realm of business and the streetscaping that the developer
06:24:41 is going to do, and then the community development district
06:24:44 is actually going to change.
06:24:48 So an entire design angle.
06:24:52 That's why I mentioned the benches, streetlights.
06:24:57 He's actually adopting the row architect specifications that
06:25:01 we are using in Waterworks Park to carry it through the rest
06:25:03 of the development.
06:25:04 So there is continuity.
06:25:06 >> Okay.
06:25:11 So I guess what would be helpful then is somewhere, at some
06:25:19 point, we can compare on a map --
06:25:25 >>CATHERINE COYLE: An overlay?
06:25:27 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
06:25:28 What is being redrawn?
06:25:29 Then the question for me is as you go west and those angled
06:25:33 streets, are those new streets?
06:25:37 >>CATHERINE COYLE: It's all of the streets currently that
06:25:39 exist are perpendicular, 90º streets, with the exception of
06:25:45 those that have a slight bend right there, but not the same
06:25:48 type of bend.
06:25:48 So essentially what's happening is the road that's Oak that
06:25:53 runs behind the armature works building to the north,
06:25:57 carries all the way through to Garcia.
06:25:59 That segment is staying here and will connect to the new
06:26:04 Massachusetts today is only this little leg that connects
06:26:08 back to Oak, but it's not improved.
06:26:10 There's no physical connection.
06:26:12 Society what he's doing is taking Massachusetts on that
06:26:14 angle following the grid pattern from downtown and
06:26:16 connecting it all the way threw down to 7th Avenue.
06:26:19 These are new connections that don't exist today.
06:26:22 So it actually provides better -- this block right here as
06:26:27 it sits today, there's no connection.
06:26:31 And there's actually two connections, and especially at
06:26:37 river road.
06:26:39 >>MARY MULHERN: So right now, the item we are on is the
06:26:41 vacation, right?
06:26:44 >>CATHERINE COYLE: They are both open.
06:26:46 So I wanted to show you-oat.
06:26:48 >>MARY MULHERN: Is there somewhere where we can see
06:26:52 specifically what part of the existing public roads we are
06:26:56 being asked to vacate?
06:26:59 >>CATHERINE COYLE: It's in your staff report actually.
06:27:03 Map form.
06:27:07 >> A visual of it?
06:27:09 >>HARRY COHEN: I have Councilman Montelione.
06:27:28 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Mr. McDonaugh, good suggestion.
06:27:30 If you would like to see a graphic showing an overlay, and
06:27:34 given the time that you might want to digest some of this,
06:27:36 we could continue this to the next meeting and give you a
06:27:39 little time to digest it, for the develop oar to go back and
06:27:43 we can work on that one draft to show the overlay.
06:27:48 >>LISA MONTELIONE: That's where I opened the meeting
06:27:50 because I didn't want you to get too deep into this meeting
06:27:53 when we really -- we don't have -- I didn't get a brief --
06:28:01 I'm chair of the zoning, planning and preservation committee
06:28:04 and I had no briefing on this before.
06:28:06 And you know -- I mean, you are not in the briefing, but for
06:28:11 every zoning meeting we have, I have that briefing.
06:28:14 So I'm comfortable with what you are asking, or what the
06:28:17 applicant is asking for.
06:28:19 And this is a lot of information.
06:28:21 And we don't have -- as I stated at the top of the meetings
06:28:26 we don't have a lot of this information.
06:28:27 It's very difficult to get through it when we are being
06:28:30 handed everything during the meeting.
06:28:34 So that's why I brought that Hupp, because I didn't want to
06:28:38 get too far into the discussion.
06:28:43 The question I was going to ask when I asked to be
06:28:46 recognized by the chair was about the right-of-way, and it
06:28:51 kind of dovetails off of what Mrs. Mulhern is talking about.
06:28:55 So I don't know -- the applicant is the one that has to ask
06:28:59 for the continuance.
06:29:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say this.
06:29:02 And I appreciate the remarks that you made.
06:29:04 I really do.
06:29:05 I had a meeting, what I have been out of the chair for, with
06:29:09 Mr. Shelby and others.
06:29:10 And I just don't want to put this council in that position,
06:29:15 that we don't see anything and we are going to vote on it.
06:29:19 And I know it's the right thing.
06:29:21 And I know it's best for the neighborhood and I know it's
06:29:23 best for the city, and I know it's the best for everyone
06:29:25 here, and I really appreciate you being here.
06:29:28 But the problem is that I don't want to get a track record
06:29:32 of striking out before you go to the plate.
06:29:34 And we haven't struck out, but we are at the plate, and we
06:29:40 are going to keep hitting these foul balls if we are going
06:29:42 to hit strike three down the middle.
06:29:45 It don't want a future developer to say, well, you did it
06:29:47 for them, are they special because it's the City of Tampa?
06:29:50 And it puts us in an awkward position where we are not used
06:29:53 to this.
06:29:54 We are used to having all the information here.
06:29:56 Even the distribution of the facts, and not even enough of
06:29:59 them to go around.
06:30:00 So what I'm saying is, I'm being apologetic to the audience
06:30:03 here, and to the administration.
06:30:05 But I believe you should ask for something more than what
06:30:09 you are getting, because you aren't going to get much.
06:30:11 >>BOB McDONAUGH: Economic development.
06:30:15 I apologize to council.
06:30:16 This has been a lot of negotiations which when we set these
06:30:24 dates I thought we would have more time and I apologize we
06:30:26 did not get the information to you sooner.
06:30:28 So I think a continuance is in the best interest of everyone
06:30:31 so people can get the information, have a chance to digest
06:30:34 it, understand the materials that we are talking about,
06:30:37 prior to the next meeting.
06:30:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I appreciate it.
06:30:40 But I don't know if it's up to the city.
06:30:43 You are the one -- the city is requesting the vacation --
06:30:48 So I don't know if you or the developer is going to ask for
06:30:54 That's up to legal to tell me.
06:30:55 >>LISA MONTELIONE: They are the one that has to ask.
06:31:04 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I want to say, yes, the questions seemed
06:31:07 very odd.
06:31:07 I saw people looking at us like, don't you know that
06:31:11 And we didn't.
06:31:12 We just got this information.
06:31:13 But I will tell you on the surface, once we get to study it,
06:31:17 it looks really, really like something that I would love to
06:31:23 see in our city.
06:31:24 And as everyone knows I'm a real fan of roundabouts.
06:31:27 >> We are the applicant.
06:31:40 So I would ask.
06:31:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We are the applicant.
06:31:48 If it's confusing there, you can imagine on this side.
06:31:51 The city is the applicant on item 5.
06:31:55 >> And 6.
06:31:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And the city also on 6 and 7?
06:31:58 >> 2330 West Horatio, Tampa 33609.
06:32:13 We will be amenable to requesting a continuance on the
06:32:16 I guess you are the applicant, we are the authorized agent
06:32:19 for that.
06:32:22 I would, however, ask you if you would consider hearing from
06:32:26 anyone who is here --
06:32:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll do that, sir.
06:32:29 We'll handle that.
06:32:30 That's our due diligence.
06:32:32 But it's only going to be on the continuance, not on the
06:32:35 >> Understood.
06:32:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
06:32:42 Now, what date are we looking at?
06:32:44 >>HARRY COHEN: We did fill up the 14th of November with
06:32:50 a lot today.
06:32:51 So we could do it December 12th in the evening at 6:00 p.m.
06:32:59 >> Is there any way that you would be amenable to continuing
06:33:08 this to the daytime?
06:33:12 >> We have a whole neighborhood.
06:33:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't want to start.
06:33:15 That I have done it before when it's about that big.
06:33:17 Like two inches.
06:33:19 I don't know how many acres, how many closures, and how many
06:33:24 I don't want to get into that habit of changing the format.
06:33:28 >> I just want to make sure when we are continuing this that
06:33:39 at least for my sake, and I think council will agree with
06:33:43 me, that we do have that overlay that Mr. McDonaugh
06:33:46 mentioned, really specific maps to show us what we are
06:33:50 vacating, and what part of what road and where the new roads
06:33:58 are going.
06:33:59 And I would also like to understand if we are we thinking --
06:34:03 creating new roads, you know, how much of the new roads are
06:34:09 going to be public roads and how much of that -- if some of
06:34:16 it is overlapping with existing roads, I'm a big proponent
06:34:22 of public streets and a grid.
06:34:30 >>HARRY COHEN: Let me say because of the Thanksgiving
06:34:32 holiday, our calendar options are a little constrained.
06:34:36 But Councilwoman Montelione made a suggestion that either
06:34:39 after our daytime meeting on the 7th we can have a
06:34:42 special called evening session.
06:34:43 We could do the same thing on December 6th.
06:34:46 >>LISA MONTELIONE: We just set the public hearing for the
06:34:54 development order to come on November 7th.
06:34:57 So if we continue this to the 7th, we will have the
06:35:01 development order and the development, the vacating, the
06:35:05 rezoning, all in the same day.
06:35:07 And for me, I think that's cleaner in my mind because you
06:35:11 are talking about the same subject and not destroying the
06:35:13 two and separating them out.
06:35:15 >> That all makes sense.
06:35:19 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Every now and then I have some logic.
06:35:21 >>HARRY COHEN: So would we be talking about a special
06:35:27 called meeting, say 5:00 on November 7th, which is a
06:35:32 We have a morning meeting that day.
06:35:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have enough time to post that.
06:35:36 All right.
06:35:39 A continuance to November 7th at 6:00 be amenable to
06:35:45 you, both the city and the developer?
06:35:48 You have got to speak.
06:35:49 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And I would suggest the development
06:35:55 order that night at the same time.
06:35:57 >> We are amenable, too.
06:36:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: City?
06:36:09 Mrs. Montelione, your statement again?
06:36:11 >>LISA MONTELIONE: The development order, I believe, is
06:36:13 coming during the daytime session and we just put the public
06:36:17 hearing during the day on the 7th.
06:36:19 And perhaps we can do that at night so we can hear all of
06:36:22 this together all at once.
06:36:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We can move that from the day meeting
06:36:29 with no problem.
06:36:30 >>REBECCA KERT: Just as a matter of procedure, you would
06:36:33 have to do it when it's scheduled.
06:36:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, we can at that time transfer it to
06:36:42 the night meeting?
06:36:43 Is that what you are saying?
06:36:45 Thank God I don't speak attorney language.
06:36:46 >> I'm sorry to have all these questions.
06:36:53 But the development order, we are taking up the development
06:36:56 order -- first of all, we scheduled it today for that date
06:37:02 before we knew if any of this was even going to pass.
06:37:07 Doesn't the development order come after the vacating and
06:37:10 the rezoning?
06:37:17 Isn't that too soon to schedule it, the same night? For
06:37:20 first reading?
06:37:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, legally you have to pass the
06:37:24 items you have tonight before you can have a contract that
06:37:27 binds the city and the developer to certain requirements.
06:37:33 The point is that there are -- the items definitely relate
06:37:38 to each other.
06:37:38 There are certain commitments that are made that both are
06:37:41 going to be binding upon the city and upon the developer
06:37:43 which may be relevant, which I'm sure will be relevant to
06:37:46 your discussion and decision.
06:37:48 So it would be my hope that you would have the benefit of
06:37:51 the development agreement as you make your deliberations
06:37:55 throughout this entire process.
06:37:57 >>MARY MULHERN: But does that mean that we are agreeing to
06:38:01 the development agreement at the same time at the first
06:38:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No.
06:38:10 Legally what you are doing is you are actually passing it to
06:38:16 a second reading and an adoption public hearing.
06:38:19 >>MARY MULHERN: We are handling it the same way we are
06:38:23 handling the rezoning?
06:38:26 That isn't what we were going to be doing.
06:38:29 We were going to be hearing it after.
06:38:32 Basically, if this had passed tonight, then we would have
06:38:37 been then contemplating the development agreement at the
06:38:39 second reading.
06:38:41 But because the second reading would have been scheduled for
06:38:43 that date.
06:38:45 So I think we need --
06:38:51 >> The way it's scheduled now is assuming for the sake of
06:38:54 argument that it would have passed tonight, you would be
06:38:59 voting on the first reading of the development agreement at
06:39:03 the same time that you would be doing the adoption -- the
06:39:07 same day as the adoption public hearing.
06:39:10 >>MARY MULHERN: The second.
06:39:13 It would have been: As it was set up today, I think
06:39:16 because -- Rebecca decided what should happen --
06:39:21 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
06:39:22 What I would recommend is that you leave it scheduled as is
06:39:26 on that day.
06:39:27 We'll have additional information.
06:39:28 If you feel it's inappropriate we can talk about it then, if
06:39:31 it needs to be continued, but at the very least at this
06:39:33 point I would leave it where it is.
06:39:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
06:39:38 Both have agreed to change to November --
06:39:44 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Move to continue.
06:39:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mrs. Montelione, second by Mr.
06:39:48 Before I take the vote to continue, anyone in the audience
06:39:51 care to speak on the change of date from now to November
06:39:55 7th only?
06:39:57 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And that would be at 5:30 on November
06:40:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Whatever time you want.
06:40:02 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I think 5:30, would be easier than 5:00.
06:40:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 5:30 November 7th the year 2013.
06:40:14 Would anyone like to speak on the change of time only from
06:40:18 today's date to November 7th?
06:40:20 >> 716 west -- I have been sworn in.
06:40:29 I have a problem with everything that you are talking about
06:40:31 changing the date, because it seems like all of a sudden
06:40:35 where we had a week or two to get this stuff and talk to you
06:40:37 all about it, now we are get it all should have had down our
06:40:41 throat and shoved in in one night.
06:40:42 And that concerns me, because this is a huge project.
06:40:45 And I really do like the project in total, but there are
06:40:49 some issues that are with it, and all being shoved down --
06:40:56 like you said, you didn't even have the information tonight.
06:40:59 That to me is a little strange.
06:41:00 You know what I'm saying?
06:41:01 I just prefer, like you said, you don't strike out one, two,
06:41:05 three, only in one night.
06:41:08 Like you mentioned earlier.
06:41:10 But even if you have to go into January to get all this
06:41:13 stuff done.
06:41:13 I prefer you do that and take your time looking at the
06:41:16 project and seeing what problems are with it before you go
06:41:19 and just try to go everything in one night and then at a
06:41:24 5:30 meeting where everybody has to come running from work
06:41:27 and because of traffic can't get down here in time.
06:41:30 So I would ask that you slow down and spread it out a little
06:41:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Montelione?
06:41:35 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I just want to say, actually, the way
06:41:40 that you state it was -- that it was going to be all done
06:41:45 one night and should have had down -- shoved down, but the
06:41:50 discussion that we would have had tonight, we are going to
06:41:52 have two more weeks to do just what you said, to work out, I
06:41:54 digest it, consider things, and then discussion.
06:42:01 I think we are actually taking more time to deliberate and
06:42:04 not shoving it all down anybody's throat, because we are
06:42:08 going to take these two weeks to really digest the
06:42:12 Tonight ton me was the shove down your throat part.
06:42:15 >> I have been both of those.
06:42:18 Now the redevelopment portion to that same meeting.
06:42:20 And then --
06:42:23 >>LISA MONTELIONE: That was already scheduled for the
06:42:28 But I just think it's giving us a slower pace to really look
06:42:32 and do what you want us to do and do the due diligence we
06:42:36 need to.
06:42:36 >> I really think on this you need --
06:42:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Not any project, not just this one.
06:42:41 >> And you do need your time, slow down and tap good look at
06:42:48 It looks like a good thing for the neighborhood.
06:42:50 But there are a lot of --
06:42:52 >>LISA MONTELIONE: That's why I wanted to wait a little bit
06:42:55 so I have time.
06:42:59 Thank you.
06:42:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Next, please.
06:43:00 >> Carrie Copsia, 4217 Culbreath Avenue.
06:43:08 I'm not immediately in the area of this project, but I'm
06:43:12 affected by it because it's a project in the City of Tampa.
06:43:17 And I think the problem with all the changing and continuing
06:43:22 is that it gives the impression that it's a done deal, and
06:43:26 people might feel like it's already going forward, and if
06:43:34 it's all in one night, people that don't really understand
06:43:37 the process, don't know why it didn't happen or what.
06:43:42 It just seems like it should be handled the way every
06:43:45 project is handled correctly, and not make special
06:43:51 provisions just because you want it passed.
06:43:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: For the benefit of the public, what is
06:43:59 being requested tonight is to continue the first reading of
06:44:06 these three hearings.
06:44:08 What that means then is when you come back on the night of
06:44:12 the 7th, you will still have the full opportunity to
06:44:16 hear the presentation in full, and have the full opportunity
06:44:20 to speak to it and raise concerns, and those who speak in
06:44:26 favor of it or opposed to it can bring that up.
06:44:29 And then what happens then, just as it would tonight, it
06:44:32 would be continued for a period of two weeks, at least two
06:44:35 weeks -- I have to check the schedule -- but then it would
06:44:37 come back for second reading and then adoption public
06:44:41 So just like any other case, it's going to be treated like
06:44:45 any other case, that you will have two opportunities at two
06:44:47 public hearings to be heard and to hear from others before
06:44:54 the City Council votes to take a position whether to adopt
06:45:00 it or not.
06:45:01 So in other words --
06:45:05 >> Is that closing the roads and changing the use and
06:45:08 allowing a liquor license and all these things were posted
06:45:12 for tonight.
06:45:14 >> And they will be continued because they are all
06:45:17 associated, they are separate hearings, and you will have
06:45:20 the opportunity to be speak to each of them.
06:45:22 >> But why are they being continued?
06:45:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Because if we did it tonight I would be
06:45:26 shoving it down somebody's throat because ourselves haven't
06:45:28 looked at it.
06:45:29 >> If we just start tonight or today.
06:45:34 But why?
06:45:35 The notice --
06:45:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The notice was up but the material was
06:45:41 never appreciated by seven council members, it was never
06:45:44 digested by seven council members, and we don't do business
06:45:47 that way.
06:45:48 We have to look at it, digest it.
06:45:50 >> No, I understand, but if the notice is going to be a
06:45:55 hearing, shouldn't they get to the you before the day --
06:45:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You are right.
06:46:01 That's why we are not moving forward.
06:46:02 >> Thank you.
06:46:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You're very welcome.
06:46:12 Thank you very much.
06:46:12 We are trying to protect everybody.
06:46:16 All right.
06:46:16 Let's change that time to 6:00.
06:46:18 Maker of the motion, can you restate the motion to 6:00?
06:46:22 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Sure.
06:46:23 I move to continue the vacation items 5, 6 and 7, the
06:46:31 vacation, the rezoning, and the alcohol beverage
06:46:36 consideration, permits, to November 7th at 6:00 p.m., in
06:46:40 council chambers.
06:46:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione.
06:46:44 The second was Mr. Cohen.
06:46:46 Further discussion by council members on that motion?
06:46:48 Anyone else want to speak?
06:46:49 All in favor of the motion please signify by saying aye.
06:46:52 Opposed nay.
06:46:54 Motion passes unanimously.
06:46:55 The hearing will be held November 7th at 6:00 p.m., the
06:46:59 year 2013.
06:47:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And to follow up again for the benefit of
06:47:04 the public that is the only notice that you will receive of
06:47:06 a continuance of these public hearings.
06:47:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
06:47:11 Thank you very much for attending.
06:47:21 Information by council members, left to right.
06:47:23 >>LISA MONTELIONE: No new business.
06:47:25 >>HARRY COHEN: No, thank you.
06:47:27 >>MARY MULHERN: No.
06:47:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Reddick?
06:47:32 Thank you.
06:47:32 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I want to remind everybody to mark their
06:47:40 calendar for Richard's run, last year collected $85,000 for
06:47:43 cancer research, March 1.
06:47:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
06:47:54 Mr. Suarez?
06:47:56 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Everyone have a safe and happy Halloween
06:47:59 next week and we will be gone.
06:48:01 That's one Thursday we will not be here.
06:48:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Need a motion to receive and file any
06:48:05 Motion by Mrs. Montelione, second by Mr. Suarez.
06:48:08 All in favor?
06:48:09 The ayes have it unanimously.
06:48:10 Anything else to come before this board?
06:48:12 We stand adjourned.
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