Tampa City Council
Thursday, November 21, 2013
9:00 a.m. Session
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09:04:11 >> CHAIRMAN MIRANDA: City Council is called to order.
09:06:11 The chair yields to Ms. Mary Mulhern.
09:06:14 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:06:16 We are honored today to have our clerk Shirley Foxx-Knowles
09:06:20 present the invocation for us.
09:06:21 >> Good morning.
09:06:37 Let us pray.
Dear Heavenly Father, on this beautiful November morning, we
would like to say thank you for the opportunity to live and
serve in our great city.
Thank you for your grace and your mercy and all the
wonderful gifts you have provided.
Let us again remember to plant forward and show our
gratitude by being kind to one another.
Father, we thank you for all those assembled here for
today's council meeting including the police officer being
commended for extraordinary achievement.
09:07:13 Continue to provide your protection to the officers and all
09:07:16 others serving on the front line for our safety.
09:07:19 We truly thank them for their service.
09:07:22 As we remember the historical events of long ago, let us
09:07:27 pause, reflect, and give thanks for the lessons learned and
09:07:32 the many blessings you have provided over the years.
09:07:36 You have been so good to us, and we are truly thankful.
09:07:39 May we continue to persevere and be wonderful examples of
09:07:45 outstanding Tampa citizens.
09:07:47 Bless our leaders today, including our council, and continue
09:07:51 to guide them in the decisions they will make today.
09:07:54 Continue to make them instruments of your will.
09:07:59 And now as we celebrate Thanksgiving next week with family
09:08:02 and friends, let us remember just how blessed we truly are.
09:08:07 Thank you, father, for more than we can say.
09:08:10 Keep us in your care and make us shining examples of your
09:08:16 With grateful hearts we pray.
09:08:20 Let us all say: Amen.
09:08:22 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:08:26 >> Roll call.
09:08:45 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
09:08:47 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
09:08:49 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:08:50 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
09:08:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:08:55 Okay, need a motion to adopt the minutes of the session held
09:08:58 November 7th.
09:08:59 Need a motion by Ms. Mulhern, seconded by Mr. Suarez.
09:09:03 All in favor of the motion are? Opposed?
09:09:05 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:09:07 Item number 1.
09:09:09 Mr. Reddick, presentation, police Officer of the month.
09:09:18 >> Good morning, council.
09:09:29 It's my honor to present to you the Tampa police Officer of
09:09:33 the Month of November 2013, officer Martinez.
09:09:42 And the chief is right here.
09:09:43 >> Chief Castor: Thanks, council, for allowing me to be
09:09:51 before you to bring the best and brightest.
09:09:54 We are fortunate to have officer Martinez in our department.
09:09:56 She came to us from Albuquerque, New Mexico.
09:10:00 She wanted to come for better weather apparently. Anyway,
09:10:04 she came over here a number of years back, and she has been
09:10:07 an amazing addition to the Tampa Police Department.
09:10:10 She's worked in a number of capacities throughout the
09:10:14 She was a field training officer you may remember her as one
09:10:19 of the stars from the rookies program a few years back so
09:10:24 she's responsible for training a lot of our officers.
09:10:27 Currently her assignment is a K-9 officer and she does
09:10:33 outstanding work as a K-9 officer and certainly deserving to
09:10:37 be part of that unit.
09:10:38 It's an elite unit in the police department.
09:10:41 We have 20-some K-9s in our department.
09:10:45 She currently is assigned to working the street as a patrol
09:10:50 officer with a four-legged partner.
09:10:54 And to be able to be a part of the K-9 unit is very, very
09:10:58 They are put through a series of rigorous tests that include
09:11:02 physical ability and also problem solving, and given certain
09:11:09 tasks to perform that sometimes there's no answer to, and
09:11:12 not a solution for.
09:11:14 And she came out of that testing process in the top tier of
09:11:21 everyone who tried out.
09:11:22 So she did an amazing job, and continue to out on the
09:11:27 As I said, she's assigned to patrol, and she participants in
09:11:30 the day-to-day call taking when there's not a need for her
09:11:34 K-9 services.
09:11:35 And I'll just read a couple. Myriad of different instances
09:11:40 that she and her four-legged partner Tag have been in in the
09:11:47 past few months.
09:11:48 There was a call in Ybor City at 28th Avenue and
09:11:52 21st street in reference to a warrant, an individual had
09:11:56 been pulled over on a traffic stop and he had fled, and his
09:12:00 girlfriend was left behind in the vehicle.
09:12:03 They gave the last known location of the suspect when he
09:12:06 ran, called officer Martinez, and she and her K-9 partner
09:12:12 came in and tracked this individual for over 200 yards, over
09:12:17 two lengths of a football field they tracked this
09:12:20 individual, and very difficult for a dog to track a suspect.
09:12:26 It's not nearly as easy as they make it look and in an urban
09:12:31 environment on concrete it's even more difficult.
09:12:33 And Tag had difficulty in this from the beginning so officer
09:12:37 Martinez spent hours and hours and hours working with him to
09:12:40 hone his skills to be able to do it.
09:12:42 So the fact that they found this individual was pretty
09:12:47 They found him hiding between a house and some bushes.
09:12:52 Officer Martinez ordered him to show his hand and come out.
09:12:55 He refused to do so.
09:12:57 So there was a quicken engagement with Tag.
09:13:01 I think you can figure out what that means.
09:13:03 And the suspect was handcuffed and taken into custody that
09:13:07 She also, as I said before, works with the officers in their
09:13:10 day to day tasks in reducing crime in her area of
09:13:15 She assisted with two homeless individuals in front of an
09:13:23 abandoned Sweetbay store, and was talking to them about a
09:13:27 suspect who was involved in a series of burglaries in the
09:13:30 She passed this information off to detectives working in
09:13:35 that area and they were able to take the subject into
09:13:39 custody, end that particular burglary pattern.
09:13:45 And in September of this year about 2 a.m. she heard a call
09:13:48 go out of a burglary in progress.
09:13:53 the sergeant had set up a perimeter and had seen suspect
09:13:56 running around inside a fenced in area.
09:13:59 Set up a perimeter, officer Martinez and tag came to the
09:14:07 location, and announced that everybody needed to come out
09:14:10 and give themselves up.
09:14:12 Two young boys came out, gave themselves up.
09:14:14 Officer Martinez interviewed them and said they were the
09:14:17 only ones in there, wasn't anybody else in that location.
09:14:20 She felt that this wasn't the case.
09:14:22 And being very thorough, she went in, made an announcement,
09:14:26 searched the area with tag, and after a shorten engagement
09:14:32 arrested an individual who happened to be the father of
09:14:34 these two young boys and had them out committing burglaries
09:14:37 in the wee hours of September 29th.
09:14:40 So again she is an as set out on the street.
09:14:43 And she and her partner tag go into those situations that
09:14:49 officers don't go into, that may be too dangerous to go in
09:14:52 and search a building, and it's easier to send a dog in and
09:14:56 do that, and the dogs have to be very skilled, they have to
09:14:58 have continuous training, and does an outstanding job of
09:15:04 And what she's been recognized here, what I have read out
09:15:08 and everything she does on a day-to-day basis to make our
09:15:11 agency great, it's my honor to name her Officer of the
09:15:15 [ Applause ]
09:15:25 >>FRANK REDDICK: Chief, the last time we had someone from
09:15:28 K-9 unit -- [ Laughter ] I was literally waiting for that
09:15:34 dog to come up here.
09:15:35 I was standing at the podium and that dog came running in.
09:15:39 I was scared.
09:15:40 [ Laughter ]
09:15:45 On behalf of the Tampa City Council, we would like to
09:15:47 present to you this commendation for being chosen as Officer
09:15:50 of the Month for November 2013.
09:16:03 We have some goodies for you.
09:16:05 >> I represent the Tampa police benevolent association.
09:16:16 I'm the current secretary.
09:16:17 On behalf of Tampa PBA, we would like to present you with
09:16:25 Thank you for your dedication.
09:16:33 I'm Michael Kilgore with the Columbia restaurant group on
09:16:43 behalf of the gone dessert family, a $100 gift card.
09:17:07 This is a gift certificate for $50.
09:17:18 Thank you.
09:17:18 >> Bill Currie Ford.
09:17:37 On behalf of the curry family, grams.
09:17:40 We have four tickets.
09:17:45 I would like to give you this watch with the emblem on it.
09:17:59 >> Steve Stickley representing Stepps Towing, and also Joe
09:18:10 Durkin was not available to be here this morning so he asked
09:18:13 me if I would present to you his certificate for 30 days of
09:18:18 free Bright House service.
09:18:20 And from Stepps, we would like to present this plaque to you
09:18:26 for a job well done, a gift card to Lee Roy Selmons.
09:18:32 Thank you very much.
09:18:32 >> On behalf of Tampa theater we would like to thank you for
09:18:40 what you do and for you and your guest a year long
09:18:44 membership to the theater.
09:18:45 >> Normally, I adopt give this to the officer, I give it to
09:18:54 the significant other.
09:18:55 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Good morning.
09:19:16 Chasing after guys, going into houses.
09:19:18 On behalf of prestige portraits, formerly Bryn Allen, we are
09:19:23 going to provide you with a gift certificate for you to have
09:19:25 your portrait taken, and you can do that anytime you like.
09:19:30 On behalf of the Ybor cafe have dinner or lunch of your
09:19:39 And this is for tag.
09:19:43 You can go to Bern's steakhouse.
09:19:49 And we want to thank you for what you do for all of us.
09:19:53 And I am going to put that there.
09:19:58 >> Good morning.
09:20:05 I would like to thank everybody for coming this morning.
09:20:09 For me it's really early.
09:20:12 But one thing I want to mention, I have been in law
09:20:16 enforcement since I was 19 years old so it's been almost 20
09:20:20 years of my life that I have been doing this and there's
09:20:23 nothing else I would rather do.
09:20:25 The K-9 is the only thing I have wanted to do in law
09:20:29 enforcement, and it's not an easy task to get on K-9, and
09:20:34 once we get on it we don't leave.
09:20:35 I have no intention of ever leaving K-9.
09:20:39 I will be happy even if don't have rank of any value.
09:20:45 The dog is the most valuable tool out there, but it's almost
09:20:48 the hardest.
09:20:52 There's always something that comes up on a continuous
09:20:55 basis, and you have to constantly work with.
09:20:57 And myself prior to coming to K-89, I never truly realized
09:21:02 how much of a task it is to train a dog.
09:21:04 You think you stick it on a leash and go to town.
09:21:08 It's not that case.
09:21:09 There's a lot of effort that gets put in, not just by the
09:21:12 officers by myself, but by our supervisors, our trainers.
09:21:16 It's a constant in-progress type of position to be dealing
09:21:24 But it's one of the most worthwhile, when you are able to
09:21:28 send your dog in and he does everything that he's trained to
09:21:32 All of this, I really appreciate it, but my dog is the one
09:21:35 that deserves most of the credit quite honestly.
09:21:38 Thank you.
09:21:40 [ Applause ]
09:21:46 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I hope that you didn't transfer looking for
09:21:53 Walter white.
09:21:54 [ Laughter ] does he weigh more than you do?
09:21:59 >> Just about.
09:21:59 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I was going to say.
09:22:03 Thank you for your service.
09:22:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Give a high five, Chief.
09:22:12 I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a four and a half.
09:22:18 [ Laughter ]
09:22:21 Now we are even, Chief.
09:22:33 Mr. Reddick also has a commendation for the 50th
09:22:36 anniversary of the John F. Kennedy visit to Tampa.
09:22:40 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
09:22:47 As you know, JFK spent five days five hours visiting the
09:22:57 city prior to going to Dallas.
09:22:59 And as the country gets ready tomorrow to celebrate the
09:23:03 50th anniversary of the assassination of JFK, we want to
09:23:10 make recognize the historic occasion.
09:23:17 On behalf of Tampa City Council, we present you with a
09:23:19 commendation for the John F. Kennedy visit to Tampa.
09:23:36 >> On November 18th, 1953, president Kennedy was the
09:23:40 first sitting president to visit the City of Tampa, and that
09:23:43 event so closely tied to just a few days before he passed
09:23:48 away, was assassinated, has remained as a special memory for
09:23:54 so many people in the City of Tampa.
09:23:56 For that was a celebration, and kids were skipping school.
09:23:59 We had a parade route.
09:24:00 We had people lined up all over the place.
09:24:05 For this special individual.
09:24:06 And four days later in Dallas, unfortunately, he was
09:24:12 And while so many people focus on November 22nd, what we
09:24:15 should be focusing on in the City of Tampa is that special
09:24:19 day on November 18th when we caught a glitches of this
09:24:22 shining king of Camelot.
09:24:23 So we want to remember his life, and not his death, and in
09:24:28 this special day, honor November 18th, 1963 and the
09:24:36 anniversary of his visit.
09:24:37 >> Hi everybody.
09:24:40 It's my first time speaking in front of council so thank you
09:24:43 all so much for having us today,.
09:24:50 I want to give you just a really quick glimpse, and you know
09:24:55 that the 50th anniversary of JFK's death, and don't
09:25:14 realize that what the potential could have been, and it's
09:25:25 interesting that he signed into legislation the first of 116
09:25:36 legislative actions towards helping homeless and individuals
09:25:40 with disabilities.
09:25:42 And back then they were institutionalized and they were put
09:25:52 away and never seen, never heard from again and that sort of
09:26:04 And in our community with homelessness and that sort of
09:26:07 thing is the real -- I think it's a real opportunity, and a
09:26:12 really great thing to remember that he was one of the first
09:26:24 to be a champion for homeless.
09:26:34 Thank you very much.
09:26:36 [ Applause ]
09:26:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say this.
09:26:44 This council had some items on the agenda that cannot be
09:26:47 moved, and we will be taking a recess at about 11:15 and
09:26:51 then coming back wherever we are on the agenda, reconvening
09:26:54 at 1:30-ish to finish up the agenda when necessary.
09:27:01 We will be leaving here about 11:15, and go to our
09:27:05 destination to do what we have to do, the board of realtors
09:27:10 and other commitments that we have.
09:27:20 We need the approval of the agenda and the addendum with
09:27:24 item 74.
09:27:25 I just received a letter from the petitioner withdrawing
09:27:27 item number 74.
09:27:31 I have a motion by Mrs. Mulhern, second by Mr. Suarez on a
09:27:34 close vote with Mr. Cohen.
09:27:35 All in favor of the motion?
09:27:37 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:27:40 Also, waive the rules so we can get the staff on for 70 and
09:27:46 I have a motion to waive the rules by Mr. Suarez, seconded
09:27:49 by Mr. Cohen.
09:27:50 All in favor of the motion?
09:27:53 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:27:54 Public comment.
09:27:55 Anyone in the public that would care to come up and speak
09:27:58 for three minutes you are welcome to do that.
09:28:01 We appreciate it very much.
09:28:02 Yes, ma'am.
09:28:03 >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Tampa City Council members.
09:28:05 Linda Saul-Sena, 157 Biscayne.
09:28:07 I'm here with a picture that has been done.
09:28:19 >> We'll have someone hold it for you.
09:28:36 Excuse me, stop the time.
09:28:38 Can you please hold the frame?
09:28:39 I appreciate it very much.
09:28:41 Thank you very much.
09:28:41 That's better.
09:28:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: There has been a roller coaster activity
09:28:51 about the historic Jackson house in downtown Tampa.
09:28:56 The people who have been working on it were encouraged by
09:28:59 the fact that we have drawings ready to submit for
09:29:02 permitting to stabilize the house, and the cost of
09:29:08 stabilizing your house is estimated to be $50,000 rather
09:29:11 than 140,000.
09:29:13 We have been working very closely with the property owner,
09:29:17 Mr. Robinson, who determined that the project is really too
09:29:20 much for him.
09:29:22 But after a negative article in the paper yesterday about
09:29:25 the loss of the house, a number of people have contacted me
09:29:29 who are willing to step up financially to stabilize it.
09:29:36 This is really excellent news.
09:29:38 Because up to this point, we have been dependent upon Mr.
09:29:43 Robinson's ability to take on this role.
09:29:47 And now that he's officially said he is not able to do it,
09:29:51 we are finding investors who want to stabilize the house.
09:29:55 So this is very good news.
09:29:57 What we need in the City of Tampa is very simple.
09:30:02 60 days to work on this.
09:30:04 It's a very hectic time of year.
09:30:07 It's Thanksgiving.
09:30:08 It's the holiday.
09:30:09 But we are putting this deal together with interested people
09:30:11 who want to save this critical piece of Tampa's history.
09:30:15 And I know that this is an administrative issue and not
09:30:19 specifically a council issue.
09:30:21 But you all have spoken openly about how much you value this
09:30:25 historic property of what it means to Tampa's history.
09:30:28 So I would appreciate it if you could ask the administration
09:30:32 to consider 60 more days.
09:30:34 It turns out that one of the biggest stumbling blocks in
09:30:38 securing this house was not the fencing, not the plans which
09:30:42 are ready to go.
09:30:43 If we apply for permitting and a contractor comes onboard
09:30:46 the contractor's liability will step in, and we will be able
09:30:49 to protect the city and hold them harmless.
09:30:51 So we just need a few more weeks.
09:30:53 Please consider stepping out there to protect this historic
09:30:57 Thank you.
09:30:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have Mrs. Capin first, then Mr.
09:31:03 Ms. Capin.
09:31:04 >>MIKE SUAREZ: You said that the contractor's liability
09:31:07 would take care of our indemnity for the city?
09:31:10 >> The contractor would come for the safety of the interior
09:31:15 of the house.
09:31:16 Tampa, as we all unfortunately know, has a number of houses
09:31:19 that are in less than perfect condition, and the city has
09:31:23 been very patient for a very long time.
09:31:26 But Mr. Robinson simply hasn't been able to go forward.
09:31:29 >>MIKE SUAREZ: The only reason I was asking is because I'm
09:31:32 not sure that's exactly correct and I have asked Mr. Mueler
09:31:36 who walked in for a second.
09:31:37 I want to ask him a question about your question.
09:31:39 >> Oh, good.
09:31:41 And Julia is here, too.
09:31:43 Because Julia was supposed to meet with the attorney for Mr.
09:31:46 Robinson about demolition.
09:31:48 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I appreciate you coming forward and asking
09:31:50 but we want to find out what is possible.
09:31:56 >> Sure.
09:32:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Capin and Mr. Reddick.
09:32:02 >> Yes.
09:32:03 The extra 60 days, what is the rush, if there is?
09:32:08 And I understand there was a push by a radio station this
09:32:15 morning, raised something like $20,000 and donations from
09:32:20 landscapers, and it's taken on a life of its own.
09:32:25 We are working so quickly to demolish this historic park.
09:32:30 When we are looking at -- you know, we are putting up
09:32:37 monuments at Encore, but yet we have this house.
09:32:41 And the city cannot have a clear conscience when it comes to
09:32:47 this house.
09:32:48 I'm sorry, but that is the truth.
09:32:51 It's African-American origin.
09:32:53 But it is American history.
09:32:54 It's art history.
09:32:55 It's Tampa's history.
09:32:57 And that we allowed that house to deteriorate.
09:33:00 And this man, no one -- they just didn't demolish the house.
09:33:06 That's the part the city took.
09:33:08 We think didn't condemn it.
09:33:15 It's almost shameful.
09:33:16 It is really just about, and we have the community coming
09:33:23 And, you know, until it's gone, it's not gone.
09:33:25 And I have got to commend you, Ms. Saul-Sena, and everyone
09:33:31 not giving up and keep moving, trying to save this house.
09:33:34 And I totally empathize with Mr. Robinson and his situation.
09:33:40 But the city cannot come up with $50,000 to preserve a
09:33:47 historic home is unconscionable.
09:33:50 I'm sorry, but it is unconscionable.
09:33:52 I'm sorry that it's happening.
09:33:54 I'm sorry that we have put ourselves in this position.
09:33:58 And, yes, the city has been patient.
09:34:00 But the help is lacking.
09:34:06 So that's where I stand on this.
09:34:07 And I would like -- I know we don't take any actions right
09:34:12 But be prepared for something later on, at least from me if
09:34:17 not my colleagues on this.
09:34:19 And asking the mayor to accommodate and try to save this
09:34:25 very precious historic house.
09:34:30 Here we have an actual building that survived the demolition
09:34:34 of that historic area.
09:34:38 And we need to do more.
09:34:40 So thank you so much for bringing it to our attention.
09:34:42 Thank you.
09:34:42 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
09:34:49 I sympathize with those who are involved with this house and
09:34:54 the issue that would he have been dealing with.
09:34:56 I'm a part of that community -- that organization that's
09:34:59 trying to save the house.
09:35:01 But we also have to be conscious of the safety issue
09:35:08 pertaining to the house.
09:35:11 Now, it's made known to everyone involved that a fence needs
09:35:17 to be around the building.
09:35:19 In a one has come forward to put the fence up there.
09:35:23 If you go to the house, or pass by the house, you know if a
09:35:28 strong wind or anything comes through there, it's going to
09:35:32 knock the house down.
09:35:35 I haven't seen a fence up there.
09:35:37 Now, I would support but also say this.
09:35:47 What do you have, some proof in writing, that someone else
09:35:54 can secure that $50,000 to do what needs to be done?
09:36:00 Because all I have been hearing is that you got all these
09:36:02 people out here, the engineers and all these people saying
09:36:05 they want to work, they want to do this.
09:36:08 In a one has stepped forward, no one has put one dollar in
09:36:11 the bank, you ask this gentleman to secure his home by
09:36:17 giving it to a nonprofit organization.
09:36:20 If he is not able to sustain the money to pay back that
09:36:23 $50,000, that house is collateral.
09:36:27 That is a small portion.
09:36:30 $50,000 to stabilize the house.
09:36:34 Now, it's going to take more money to restore it.
09:36:38 And so even if you got 50,000 to stabilize that house, where
09:36:44 are you going to get the remaining -- some estimates I have
09:36:47 seen cost up to 1.5 million.
09:36:50 >> I'm so glad you asked, Mr. Reddick.
09:36:53 We have been thinking this through.
09:36:54 The first thing we needed before we could be raise a nickel
09:36:58 was for Mr. Robinson to donate the house.
09:37:01 He's not willing to do that.
09:37:02 We realize that now.
09:37:03 What we need to do is buy the house.
09:37:05 And raise the 50,000.
09:37:08 But beyond that, the engineers have reduced their estimate
09:37:13 to a million dollars and we have been reserving a number of
09:37:16 preservation grants.
09:37:17 And you can't apply for a preservation grant for a privately
09:37:19 held home.
09:37:20 And that's been the stumbling block.
09:37:23 Last Friday Mr. Robinson said he was willing to donate it.
09:37:27 By Monday he changed his maned.
09:37:29 By Tuesday we had the negative article in the press.
09:37:31 And by Wednesday morning a number of private sector people
09:37:34 spoke to me that they are willing to guarantee a loan.
09:37:36 I have spoken to the loan officers of the bank.
09:37:39 If we can secure the amount of guarantors, are willing to
09:37:43 assume the loan, and we will stabilize it and start
09:37:46 fund-raising for stabilization and grant writing.
09:37:50 >>FRANK REDDICK: Let me ask you this because you have
09:37:52 stated it twice.
09:37:53 What was negative about the article that you are speaking to
09:37:57 in the press?
09:37:58 Because what is negative?
09:38:04 >> Mr. Robinson said it's going to be demolished because I
09:38:09 need to do this for my family because he needs the revenue
09:38:12 from the house, the sale of the property.
09:38:16 The difference is, that was the first time it was really
09:38:19 clarified that that was the stumbling block, and with his
09:38:23 donation versus to purchase the property.
09:38:26 So that's what's being put together now.
09:38:28 And what we are asking from the city really is to put this
09:38:32 deal together.
09:38:33 >>FRANK REDDICK: And my final question is this.
09:38:38 If this council supports the recommendation to the mayor to
09:38:42 60 days instead of the 30, because I think his expires
09:38:48 November 30th from my understanding.
09:38:50 So if the council supports a motion moving it to December
09:38:54 30th --
09:38:57 >> And that's not 60 days.
09:38:59 >>FRANK REDDICK: Well, whatever.
09:39:01 I never did pass math.
09:39:04 [ Laughter ] but happens as a guarantee to this city that at
09:39:15 the end of 60 days this will be met?
09:39:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The fact that we are -- there is
09:39:25 actually a fence surrounding the entire property.
09:39:27 We removed a back portion of it that was particularly
09:39:31 The engineering firm is working with the fencing firm to get
09:39:34 panels put into the fence to make it even more secure.
09:39:37 But as soon as we can create the transfer of the property so
09:39:43 we can have this nonprofit take it over, then people can
09:39:46 donate to the nonprofit, get the loan.
09:39:48 Actually, we are going to have companies do the
09:39:53 stabilization and that should be accomplishable within the
09:39:55 60 days.
09:39:56 The mayor was very clear that we needed to act swiftly.
09:40:00 Initially, Mr. Baldwin said he was taking the project on,
09:40:05 and then it proved to be -- he couldn't move forward with
09:40:08 But this ad hoc committee, a number of elected officials,
09:40:16 representatives, has been meeting and the last Friday
09:40:18 meeting sounded like things were gung ho.
09:40:22 The project is a big project.
09:40:23 It's perhaps too much for an individual but is something
09:40:27 that the community under the Jackson house foundation can
09:40:29 And I think that what you referred to, Ms. Capin, about the
09:40:33 fund-raising on the radio this morning, that's just the tip
09:40:36 of the iceberg.
09:40:37 I have really gotten a number of inquiries both large and
09:40:39 small about what this means to our community as a whole, and
09:40:43 how we can't afford to lose it.
09:40:46 It would just be a waste.
09:40:48 Thank you.
09:40:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Mulhern?
09:40:51 >>MARY MULHERN: It just occurred to me a couple of things.
09:40:58 We have a huge ombudsman on our agenda, a budget, and the
09:41:12 FDOT historic trust.
09:41:13 But I think that we could find money in the budget to go
09:41:18 towards it.
09:41:19 And the other thing is, I was speaking with our new housing
09:41:23 director, and with Thom Snelling yesterday, and they were
09:41:27 talking about the banks -- I guess there was a story, and I
09:41:30 haven't read this story, but JP Morgan chase is the latest
09:41:34 that are coming up with apologies, money, for cities and for
09:41:44 citizens for the housing crisis that the banks threw us
09:41:49 So maybe there's some money out there from some of the local
09:41:52 banks, community trust, or that they could put into this
09:41:57 So just some ideas.
09:42:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else who has not spoken?
09:42:03 Ms. Capin?
09:42:05 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I just want top remained everyone, I wasn't
09:42:08 on council, but, you know, back -- my recollection is the
09:42:13 city purchased a bar, because they couldn't -- they
09:42:21 purchased it to the tear it down.
09:42:22 We found the money to purchase that building that was a
09:42:26 nuisance in the neighborhood.
09:42:29 And we need to really dig deep on this one.
09:42:34 Thank you.
09:42:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez?
09:42:38 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mr. Mueller?
09:42:41 You were out of the room when I was asking this question.
09:42:45 On situations like this in which demolition order, letter,
09:42:50 has already gone out, typically what do you look at to try
09:42:54 to stay that and not continue it?
09:42:56 Are there situations in which -- I know there is criteria in
09:43:00 the letter.
09:43:01 But as an example, if the property was transferred over to
09:43:05 another entity, is there a possibility that they could be
09:43:09 saved because of that possibility?
09:43:13 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Well, there's a lot of variables within
09:43:15 that question.
09:43:16 But in general, not this specific, but generally if an order
09:43:20 to demolish goes out and a property owner was to take some
09:43:23 action that would stay or maybe do away or demolish, let say
09:43:33 rehabilitate it or do something, they would have to do it to
09:43:35 the city's satisfaction.
09:43:37 The city would be satisfied that the public health safety
09:43:44 has been alleviated in order to even consider not moving
09:43:48 >>MIKE SUAREZ: My point is, if there is a change of
09:43:51 ownership, and the new ownership group comes to you and
09:43:54 says, listen, these are the steps we are taking because we
09:43:56 just took possession. Building, is this typically, a
09:44:03 hypothetical, do you look at that and say, well, you need to
09:44:07 meet these criteria and we'll give you will extra time since
09:44:09 you are a new owner.
09:44:11 Does that usually happen or has that happened?
09:44:14 >>ERNEST MUELLER: That normally doesn't happy.
09:44:16 I'm not saying it hasn't happened.
09:44:18 But in the past there's times where -- again we go back to
09:44:21 what are they going to do?
09:44:23 And we have a demolition review team, a fire marshal,
09:44:27 building official.
09:44:28 And the issue --
09:44:30 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Hold on, because what I am getting at right
09:44:32 now as presented to us by Ms. Saul-Sena is that she wants to
09:44:36 take over the home itself, itself okay?
09:44:39 Put it into a nonprofit group.
09:44:41 If they satisfy all the requirements, can they get an
09:44:44 That's the only thing I was asking.
09:44:47 Because we already know that it has already got an order to
09:44:52 be demolished.
09:44:54 Not an order, excuse me, a letter to request the additional
09:44:58 requirements before anything goes forward.
09:45:01 Julia Mandell, please.
09:45:03 >>JULIA MANDELL: Legal department.
09:45:04 Yes, I did send a letter to the property owner indicating
09:45:08 the steps that need to be taken, given the fact that there
09:45:10 was a lot of information and evidence out there that this
09:45:13 house was unstable, and that it was creating a public
09:45:16 health, safety, welfare problem.
09:45:17 The question is not the change of ownership.
09:45:19 The question is meeting the criteria.
09:45:21 And if somebody want to move forward in meeting the criteria
09:45:24 in order to keep the house stabilized and take away that
09:45:27 threat to the public, we will absolutely work with anybody
09:45:29 in that regard.
09:45:32 There is a demolition -- it's just to begin the process.
09:45:37 >>MIKE SUAREZ: The question again, if an ownership comes
09:45:40 in, buys the property, comes in and says these are the
09:45:42 criteria that has to be met, and we will meet it within the
09:45:47 next 10 days, 20 days, 30 days, whatever it is, is that
09:45:52 something that is done on a normal course of --
09:45:57 >> It's not something you normally see.
09:45:59 But if what I hear is going to occur, is there is going to
09:46:02 be a change of ownership and there is going to be something
09:46:08 how this stable property will be stabilized, we'll work with
09:46:12 anybody in that process.
09:46:13 Given the fact that the demolition process hasn't even
09:46:16 started, it would be appropriate.
09:46:17 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And the reason I'm asking is because the
09:46:20 biggest issue -- and I have told this to many people before,
09:46:23 and I was not involved in any of these discussions
09:46:25 concerning the Jackson house, but there was always an issue
09:46:28 but the ownership that Mr. Robinson had and whether or not
09:46:30 they could raise the money.
09:46:31 I was there when they first were trying to shore it up when
09:46:36 bracket engineering was there.
09:46:38 He was trying to do it by himself as Mrs. Saul-Sena
09:46:41 But the idea to come up with that kind of money, and in this
09:46:44 time frame there's no way they are going to do it.
09:46:46 And I think frankly it's been a mistake on the part of the
09:46:49 group of people that have been trying to put this together
09:46:51 to not understand the complexities of trying to get this
09:46:54 thing done.
09:46:55 And not getting a clearance, I assume based on what Mrs.
09:46:59 Saul-Sena said as to what Mr. Robinson actually wanted.
09:47:02 Because when he it comes to historic properties it's very
09:47:06 difficult for individuals unless they are independent lip
09:47:09 wealthy in some way to put the kind of money necessary to
09:47:11 save these type of buildings.
09:47:13 It's a difficult prospect.
09:47:14 And we have seen it all the time when we give grants on
09:47:17 historic properties, that you don't have the financial
09:47:20 wherewithal, and a plan, and a focus to do something, it's
09:47:23 not going to work.
09:47:24 And this has been going on for a year.
09:47:25 And again, I don't want to stop a process in which something
09:47:29 can be saved but something concrete has to come forward.
09:47:32 It cannot come to us.
09:47:33 They keep asking us for things.
09:47:35 Unless you have a plan put in place.
09:47:37 I mean, just because it happened six months ago or ten
09:47:40 months ago or year ago, we need a plan so that we know how
09:47:44 to help.
09:47:44 We can't help in this prospect right now.
09:47:47 And that's what's frustrating to us because I think we all
09:47:50 want to see the building saved.
09:47:51 I don't think any of us want to see it demolished but that's
09:47:54 not been a concrete plan and there's not been financial
09:47:57 So I wanted to ask you that because I know that in terms of
09:47:59 the way we usually do things with code enforcement, when it
09:48:03 comes to these type of situations, I want to make sure that
09:48:06 the record is clear as to what they need to do so that we do
09:48:10 not have these discussions publicly about what the next
09:48:12 steps are and what letters are and what happens in the
09:48:16 press, because I would rather see it saved than to have
09:48:18 anybody else come here again to talk about Jackson house,
09:48:21 >>JULIA MANDELL: And if I can be clear on this issue --
09:48:27 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I think you are.
09:48:28 >>JULIA MANDELL: I want to say one additional thing, that
09:48:31 at this point in time the owner is Mr. Robinson.
09:48:34 The only entity that we can work with is Mr. Robinson, or if
09:48:39 Mr. Robinson wants to name an agent, that's where some of
09:48:42 the problems are, that we have an owner, and we have folks
09:48:45 who are trying to work with that owner but we still have --
09:48:50 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Again, I think we are very clear about that,
09:48:52 Mrs. Mandell.
09:48:53 One of the reasons I asked Mrs. Saul-Sena about the
09:48:57 contractor liability, who is the person putting up the money
09:48:59 to indemnify the city?
09:49:03 If it's Mr. Robinson, he doesn't have the financial
09:49:06 wherewithal to actually put any money into that house, it
09:49:09 doesn't make any sense to continue the process.
09:49:12 And that's where I was going.
09:49:14 Ownership is the biggest piece of this right now.
09:49:16 >>JULIA MANDELL: Right.
09:49:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
09:49:20 I appreciate what Mr. Suarez said and the rest of the
09:49:22 council members.
09:49:23 All of us are very frugal and at the same time we like to
09:49:27 see things saved that could be saved.
09:49:29 But what I am looking at, if we are looking at 60 days, I
09:49:32 don't want a 503 set up and no personal guarantee, because
09:49:38 in 60 days, something happens, and you can't find the fund,
09:49:41 you can't get the money from grants, or those individuals
09:49:44 may not want to continue within that group to save the
09:49:47 house, maybe 750, maybe a million, maybe a million and a
09:49:52 At the same time, we are liable, what happens if that
09:49:58 building collapses to one side or the other, and somebody
09:50:02 shows evidence that we haven't done the right thing, who is
09:50:05 going to pay that lawsuit?
09:50:07 So what I'm saying is no fence is 35-foot tall.
09:50:12 The back of that house is falling down.
09:50:15 I saw it the other day coming through lunch, I stopped by
09:50:18 there and took a look at it.
09:50:20 If you look at it, the only straight thing is the ground.
09:50:24 The rest of the house is leaning one way or the other.
09:50:27 So what I'm trying to say is, unless a person guarantees
09:50:32 within 60 days of one individual or group of individuals
09:50:35 that are going to take that house, have the funds, show the
09:50:39 city that they have the funds personally guaranteed by them
09:50:43 individually, then I can't continue to put the public at
09:50:46 That's what I'm saying.
09:50:47 And I appreciate everyone's comment.
09:50:53 And the city by the evidence I heard today, there's no
09:50:55 demolition permit been given.
09:50:57 Am I correct?
09:50:58 So that is not in effect yet.
09:51:01 So let's wait and see what happens.
09:51:06 I don't know if we need a motion to allow for that time if
09:51:09 we do.
09:51:10 Guess what.
09:51:11 We are responsible.
09:51:13 For something happening.
09:51:14 Am I correct?
09:51:15 I don't know.
09:51:16 >> The property owner isn't here to be part of the
09:51:21 I am very concerned about us taking any action today on this
09:51:24 Right now as I said, this is between the city and the owner
09:51:27 of the property.
09:51:27 I do understand folks are trying to do something different.
09:51:31 But we still have an ownership interest.
09:51:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand.
09:51:34 I appreciate that very much.
09:51:35 All right.
09:51:36 Any further comments?
09:51:38 Mr. Reddick?
09:51:39 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a
09:51:42 motion that legal department reach out to the owner of the
09:51:45 property, Mr. Robinson, and see if there's financial means
09:51:52 by extending this for 60 days that he's comfortable that
09:51:55 they will be able to come up with the necessary funds to
09:51:57 meet the city's requirements.
09:52:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Sell the house or do whatever he needs
09:52:04 necessary with.
09:52:04 I have a motion by Mr. Reddick, seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
09:52:08 Further discussion of this motion?
09:52:09 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
09:52:11 Opposed nay.
09:52:12 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:52:13 Thanks very much, Ms. Saul-Sena.
09:52:15 Next, please.
09:52:16 >> I'm Ed, Ed Tillou, Sulphur Springs.
09:52:25 Okay, let's stick to that.
09:52:27 Hopefully this will know go the way. Rose tavern which is
09:52:31 in D.C. and still about 20 odd years later.
09:52:35 With the treasury building that was next to the White House,
09:52:38 and it went back to the 1700s.
09:52:40 Come down from the northeast like I have, I mean, 50 or 100
09:52:46 years old.
09:52:47 Up there they are 200, 300 years old.
09:52:50 But in any case, with respect to item 2, at the last
09:53:02 meeting, we closed on Thanksgiving, that Thanksgiving was
09:53:07 originally a Spanish holiday, first celebrated in South
09:53:11 Carolina, not Florida, because it was Spanish settlements in
09:53:14 South Carolina and Georgia that were later abandoned when --
09:53:18 not really Spanish Armada, because it was more Portuguese
09:53:23 than Spanish, and Spain didn't protect those people.
09:53:31 But, in any case, with respect to item 2, the Central park
09:53:42 mall, had a movie by Oliver Stone.
09:53:46 It was reworked and things like that.
09:53:49 But it's very important because essentially it's a
09:53:52 documentary of Jim Garrison.
09:53:55 It's what he was doing and what he believed.
09:53:58 And there was a character in that, BER-something, Berset,
09:54:11 and that's where I feel it was.
09:54:13 The military and the CIA.
09:54:14 And I mistakenly said the CIA interfaced with the behalf
09:54:21 yeah. It's on the Internet.
09:54:22 They even know the names of the people at this point.
09:54:24 It on the Internet.
09:54:25 And the thing is the CIA and military -- I said CIA, and
09:54:31 John Kennedy very much reworked the CIA, and those people
09:54:36 were run through the ringer by Congress, not the CIA.
09:54:40 It was a rogue operation called operation 40, and the goal
09:54:48 for probably the Cuban exile community, they had very good
09:54:52 reason to be a go-between, between the Mafia and the CIA.
09:54:57 (Bell sounds)
09:54:58 And it wasn't something out of Tampa.
09:54:59 It was something more out of Miami, because Trafficante, Jr.
09:55:06 had left there.
09:55:07 This was all history.
09:55:08 Very important.
09:55:10 Maybe put a plaque on the corner, because it's like in the
09:55:16 movie Lincoln.
09:55:19 There was this famous line, the Speaker of the House said
09:55:23 this is not procedure, this is history.
09:55:25 (Bell sounds)
09:55:26 And that's what the Kennedy assassination was.
09:55:28 It's history.
09:55:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:55:30 Appreciate it very much.
09:55:34 And where I can buy a Volt for 16,900.
09:55:38 Thanks very much.
09:55:39 Next, please.
09:55:40 >> My name is Lena Young-Green, and I just want to comment
09:55:50 about the discussion about the Jackson house.
09:55:52 Coming from the suburbs of the City of Tampa, Tampa Heights,
09:55:56 that was the early 1880s, we have had and we do have old
09:56:02 houses that we have fought continuously to keep.
09:56:07 We have had houses and buildings that were condemned,
09:56:11 actually condemned by the city, and because of our
09:56:13 involvement and our commitment to keeping our old houses,
09:56:17 the city reversed those decisions and actually today those
09:56:21 houses stand as real monuments in our community.
09:56:25 One that I can think about right away is the cemetery which
09:56:31 is 50,000 square feet.
09:56:33 At the time the city had it scheduled for demolished and it
09:56:35 took five years of getting the funding for that project for
09:56:40 But today one of the iconic buildings in Tampa Heights, 102
09:56:45 years old.
09:56:51 One was built in 1906.
09:56:53 We came to the city in 2008 and finally got the agreement
09:56:57 for that house four years later.
09:57:01 Two years later.
09:57:02 We are still working on that.
09:57:04 And they are going to help us finish that building.
09:57:09 So it does take tame.
09:57:10 And there has been precedent set on the length of time that
09:57:14 it takes to allow a property to work through, including some
09:57:19 of those technical issues about ownership.
09:57:22 We have been through that in Tampa Heights.
09:57:24 So I beg you.
09:57:25 Stand back a little bit and let this property move forward.
09:57:28 Let the process work through and allow us to main keep
09:57:34 another one of our old historic houses to be able to
09:57:39 demonstrate that we actually honor our history.
09:57:44 Thank you.
09:57:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Next, please.
09:57:48 Ms. Capin?
09:57:50 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
09:57:50 I just want to thank you for those comments and for your
09:57:54 knowledge in this, and as you said, there is a precedent
09:57:59 And we are talking about condemned houses.
09:58:02 So this is not new to our city, and it does take tame, and
09:58:10 it can be done, and we should move forward and try
09:58:14 everything we can to preserve this house.
09:58:16 Thank you so much for your comments.
09:58:20 Actually, I would like to talk to you further about it.
09:58:22 So I will contact you.
09:58:23 Thank you.
09:58:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, sir?
09:58:26 >> I'm Richard Boom, 1929 East 7th Avenue in Ybor where I
09:58:32 own a pub, the dirty shame, and Ybor merchants association
09:58:36 member and YCDC board member.
09:58:38 I want to speak very briefly about the proposed ordinance
09:58:40 for liquor licenses.
09:58:44 I was in a handful of people that have been working with
09:58:49 Rebecca Kert and Cathy Coyle for about a year and a half,
09:58:53 and we were asked by City Council for CCDC's input to send
09:58:58 recommendations about regulating nightclubs.
09:59:01 And we have -- apparently City Council has moved off of that
09:59:06 to broaden the aspect to all the liquor license holders in
09:59:11 the City of Tampa.
09:59:12 And I just wanted to point out that I believe that this
09:59:16 probably is still only a small amount of people in Ybor City
09:59:20 area that understand the process up till now, and the effect
09:59:25 of this ordinance might be, and so I am just urging City
09:59:30 Council to notify in writing all of the liquor license
09:59:35 owners and holders in the City of Tampa that may be affected
09:59:38 by the new ordinance so that they will have enough time to
09:59:42 consider and respond and perhaps input in the
09:59:46 decision-making process.
09:59:47 That's what I urge City Council to do today.
09:59:50 Thank you very much.
09:59:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, sir.
09:59:52 Appreciate it very much.
09:59:52 Next, please.
09:59:53 >> Susan Long, 920 Broad.
09:59:59 I didn't come here knowing the Jackson house was going to
10:00:02 come up but anything you can do to give them the 60 days I
10:00:05 think would be worthwhile.
10:00:06 I live in Seminole Heights.
10:00:08 25 years ago it was considered Tampa.
10:00:14 Some people invested huge amounts of money in the old
10:00:20 Some of those were considered ready for demolition at the
10:00:22 time these projects started.
10:00:23 So it can be done.
10:00:25 I don't know for sure, can't guarantee that it can be done
10:00:29 for this particular house but certainly would like to see us
10:00:33 What I came for, however, is urban forest.
10:00:38 I saw the PowerPoint and read the documentation and in
10:00:46 totally in support.
10:00:47 However, we have trees that are protected that are weed
10:00:49 trees, and they sprout up, take over your whole yard, grow
10:00:54 huge, and invade the foundation.
10:01:01 I had some that were in not a large space, less the width of
10:01:06 this room, and started undermining my plumbing so things had
10:01:11 to go uphill and they would not go away.
10:01:14 The city would not give me a permit to remove the tree even
10:01:17 though it was the trees roots that were bigger around than
10:01:20 anything I have seen in my life because it's a protected
10:01:23 But when I two correct the garage floor they said, oh, now
10:01:28 you can remove it.
10:01:29 I was more concerned about the plumbing.
10:01:32 The cracked garage floor didn't matter to me.
10:01:34 But I think we have some trees in the protected tree scat
10:01:37 category that should be removed.
10:01:39 The other thing, if we are so concerned about urban forest,
10:01:43 why do we let TECO destroy it?
10:01:45 You drive Main Street -- Central Avenue between Hillsborough
10:01:49 and Hanna, and they have decimated, decimated the canopy
10:01:53 that was growing there.
10:01:54 Trees falling down by the truckloads.
10:01:57 There isn't a canopy anymore.
10:02:00 It's gone.
10:02:00 They are working diligently to do the same on my street.
10:02:04 They are destroying our old oaks.
10:02:06 And they looked at me and said, well, it's going to die one
10:02:09 day anyway.
10:02:10 Every tree is going to die one day.
10:02:12 I would like to see more concern about taking care of the
10:02:15 trees as opposed to destroying them and maybe a review of
10:02:18 the actual trees that we have protected.
10:02:20 Thank you.
10:02:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:02:23 Next, please.
10:02:23 >> Good morning.
10:02:30 Nice to be with you again.
10:02:31 I'm Walter Aye, the chairman of the Ybor City Development
10:02:35 Corporation, my offices are in Ybor City, 1710 north
10:02:40 19th street, which is two streets from the corner of
10:02:45 19th and 7th Avenue.
10:02:46 I am here today to discuss the business regulation proposal
10:02:51 with respect to establishments serving alcoholic beverages.
10:02:57 As Mr. Boom pointed out, we were asking the YCDC to provide
10:03:04 recommendations for such an ordinance.
10:03:05 We conducted workshops.
10:03:07 We worked with the citizens.
10:03:08 We worked with the businesses.
10:03:10 We worked with the clubs.
10:03:13 We worked with the hospitality industry and we worked with
10:03:17 TPD to try to establish what the problem was, define it, and
10:03:23 then to establish some rules which we believed to help solve
10:03:26 the problem.
10:03:28 And the establishments are, of course, a certain few
10:03:33 establishments which serve alcoholic beverages.
10:03:35 And we came up with the idea of defining a business
10:03:40 regulation as nature clubs.
10:03:42 So we created the definition for it so that people could
10:03:44 understand exactly what we are talking about.
10:03:47 And we felt that that way, we were developing a regulatory
10:03:50 pattern which dealt or focused with the problem.
10:03:54 We didn't throw a broad net over all the other businesses,
10:03:58 many of whom, in fact, the variety majority of whom are law
10:04:01 abiding and doing what they should.
10:04:03 We are only dealing with the few.
10:04:08 We called those nightclubs and defined them in regulations
10:04:12 that I believe were supplied to you earlier in the letter
10:04:14 that had come from prior chairman Dave Scott to the city.
10:04:23 The narrow group is producing a problem, a and this problem
10:04:27 is crime, and crime shows itself as drug problems,
10:04:31 prostitution, violence, and murder.
10:04:35 That is what we believe we need to focus on.
10:04:40 The source of those crimes, the source of those problems,
10:04:43 the source of the inability of some business owners to not
10:04:48 take responsibility for civil, social relationships and
10:04:51 allow things to go on which are criminal.
10:04:56 So we think this is a narrow group.
10:04:58 I believe as a couple of councilmen mentioned at the last
10:05:02 meeting, we need to keep this simple.
10:05:04 The we agree.
10:05:06 Let's not focus and throw a net over everybody saying you
10:05:10 are all suspect.
10:05:11 Let focus on what the source of the crime is and what those
10:05:14 crimes are.
10:05:15 We are to believe it -- we also believe it's important to
10:05:18 focus, and if you start throwing a broad net of regulatory,
10:05:26 you generally end up with anger, confusion and expensive
10:05:31 (Bell sounds)
10:05:32 And ultimately, the whole purpose, the whole ordinance
10:05:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:05:39 Next, please.
10:05:39 >> Joseph Capitano, Sr.
10:05:47 I'm a property owner in Ybor City.
10:05:50 Been involved in Ybor City for quite some time.
10:05:52 Member of the YCDC and chair of the Public Safety Committee.
10:05:57 I would like to go back to the Ybor City Development
10:06:01 Corporation recommended, was crafted over a year and a half
10:06:07 ago, a year, year and a half ago.
10:06:09 I was here once before top speak about this issue and was
10:06:14 referring to the work that had been put in this.
10:06:19 The people that attended and were at these meetings with us
10:06:22 were city attorney, and that's on numerous occasions, the
10:06:27 Tampa Police Department, fire department, the alcohol permit
10:06:29 department, state beverage department, and the business
10:06:37 What I'm saying is that we put up an awful lot of effort
10:06:40 into this ordinance, and really at the time took care of --
10:06:49 we think took care of the problems where there is a problem
10:06:53 location having problems that it could be stopped.
10:06:58 The problem that I personally see is that the nuisance
10:07:02 ordinance that the State of Florida has is not strong enough
10:07:04 to help close a business.
10:07:09 I think if this group or whatever got to the State of
10:07:12 Florida and changed the nuisance ordinance, put some teeth
10:07:15 in that, the ordinance that we recommended for Ybor City, I
10:07:18 highly recommend that we take the ordinance that was
10:07:22 proposed and drafted and a lot of effort staffwise and
10:07:29 meetingwise, and recommend that you use the version that was
10:07:33 originally proposed by the YCDC to the city, and at the
10:07:39 request of the city.
10:07:40 We definitely feel very, very strongly that we needed some
10:07:44 teeth to do something when something happens.
10:07:46 And we think very strongly that this will handle the
10:07:49 Thank you.
10:07:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:07:51 Anyone else in the audience care to speak this morning to
10:07:53 this council on any subject matter?
10:07:58 I see no one.
10:08:03 We go to item number 3.
10:08:15 Presentation by the North Hyde Park civic association.
10:08:22 I'm sorry, one second.
10:08:32 Are we going into CRA?
10:08:34 Let me do this ten minute and then we are going to convene
10:08:36 and go to the CRA meeting.
10:08:38 Yes, I'm sorry.
10:08:39 I apologize.
10:08:40 >> My name is Robert Allen, president of the North Hyde Park
10:08:48 civic association.
10:08:49 I am here this morning to talk about an invasion of our
10:08:53 community by college students.
10:08:57 People will come into our community after the hour of one
10:09:03 and two in the morning and continue to cause problems to the
10:09:09 homeowners by ripping down mailboxes, lewd and lascivious
10:09:15 act and so forth.
10:09:18 I want to tell you about the North Hyde Park civic
10:09:21 association, which is a registered group found on the
10:09:30 20th of October 1982, and this organization is a
10:09:37 corporation recognized by the State of Florida.
10:09:45 We are located in an area north of Kennedy over to the
10:09:53 interstate from Willow over to Armenia.
10:10:01 In our community, we are inundated by apartments and also
10:10:12 noninterest and single dwelling.
10:10:16 We are trying to build our neighborhood by having ownership
10:10:19 of single owners instead of apartments.
10:10:25 The apartments that are going up now surely does not speak
10:10:33 to what we would like to see in the future.
10:10:35 But we are aggressive in what we do to try and save our
10:10:46 As I stated to you, that this is a corporation that is
10:10:53 honored by the State of Florida, and we have our documents
10:10:57 to prove and show you that, but we want you to really and
10:11:05 truly listen to us when we talk to you about problems with
10:11:09 college students, and we have identified those college
10:11:11 students to be from Tampa, university of Tampa.
10:11:19 Our secretary will come up now and he will talk to you about
10:11:22 some of the problems in the community.
10:11:23 >> Thank you, ladies and gentlemen of the council.
10:11:28 I am Wesley Weissenburger, secretary-treasurer of the North
10:11:32 Hyde Park Civic Association.
10:11:34 I live at 1919 1/2 North "A" Street, and I lived there for
10:11:40 20 years.
10:11:41 I love the community.
10:11:42 I have no intention of moving.
10:11:46 However, the issue that we bring before you today is the
10:11:50 large two, 300 on a Friday, Saturday, that goes into the
10:11:59 residential area. These are not bars.
10:12:05 These are not party houses.
10:12:07 These are rental properties which are being organized from
10:12:14 the campus to our community in the middle of the night.
10:12:16 There are over 2 or 3, sometimes 400 people on side in the
10:12:23 property, in the allies, on the streets, in our area.
10:12:27 They go from one house, and they stagger up the allies, in
10:12:32 the streets, to the next party house.
10:12:37 When they are finished staggering and partying there, they
10:12:41 go to the next one.
10:12:42 And this continues to all hours of the night.
10:12:45 Bob mentioned the knocking over fences, mailboxes, the
10:12:53 The taxicabs stopping in the middle of the streets,
10:12:56 unloading, going back and transporting students back and
10:13:00 forth all hours of the nature.
10:13:02 We don't have to talk about urinating on the streets.
10:13:07 That's self-evident.
10:13:08 The University of Tampa, they are our neighbors.
10:13:12 They border next to us.
10:13:16 And we welcome the students just lake the City of Tampa.
10:13:21 All students have a place to be educated, have a place to
10:13:26 We are asking today, we are appealing to council for your
10:13:32 sensibilities on this issue.
10:13:35 We are asking that this large, uncontrolled beer party is so
10:13:43 wide and spread it does not affect just north Hyde Park.
10:13:46 You ask the other communities, when we meat, we run into
10:13:52 civic association presidents that say, my gosh, that's the
10:13:57 same thing that's happening in our community.
10:14:01 The parties are very widespread except perhaps in the South
10:14:05 Tampa area where those residents wouldn't tolerate this.
10:14:11 Today, make it clear, we do not demand from the City Council
10:14:19 We are not here to demand anything.
10:14:21 And we are not going to attack the University of Tampa
10:14:26 We love them dearly.
10:14:29 They are going to be educated.
10:14:30 They are going to enjoy their education.
10:14:32 They are going to enjoy Tampa.
10:14:34 They bring much to our community.
10:14:36 But what they do on Friday and Saturday nights is
10:14:46 We suggest that these large parties, which are not bars and
10:14:51 taverns, these are private residences in a quiet
10:14:55 neighborhood residential area, we recommend the use of a
10:15:01 permit not to exceed the capacity of the house.
10:15:07 We ask that police beings security officers be present.
10:15:11 If you have large crowds, you know there are rules that say
10:15:15 if you have an event you must have a police officer, you
10:15:18 must have porta potties.
10:15:21 We ask for the safety of partying students.
10:15:27 Stability, security for the students and for the neighboring
10:15:33 Ladies and gentlemen, the word is what's reasonable.
10:15:38 Fire trucks, police cars, ambulance, need accessibility to
10:15:44 get to all houses in the community.
10:15:46 Out cannot get a fire truck down the street with 200 or 300
10:15:50 kids in the streets going from house to house.
10:15:55 We ask City Council to help curb the problem.
10:16:00 We ask City Council to draft such legislation, and rules and
10:16:12 regulations where there's an event.
10:16:13 And I say to you today on behalf of north Hyde Park, 100
10:16:19 people at an event, 200 people is an event.
10:16:22 This is not a birthday party.
10:16:24 This is a drinking situation which has overstepped the
10:16:30 We ask that you advise us, what can be done which is
10:16:35 We do not want to interfere with their rights.
10:16:38 We appreciate them not interfering with ours.
10:16:44 That's all we ask.
10:16:45 Thank you very much.
10:16:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen?
10:16:48 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you, sir.
10:16:49 You brought us a problem today and you have identified it
10:16:53 for us.
10:16:53 My sense of it is that before we talk about passing new
10:16:57 ordinances we really need to review what is on the books
10:17:02 currently and what the current state of the law.
10:17:06 Some of these behaviors you are describing is clearly
10:17:09 against the law as the way it stands now.
10:17:12 So give us an opportunity to do that.
10:17:18 All of us, I think with the exception of Councilwoman
10:17:21 Montelione, all of us, our districts somehow intersect in
10:17:25 your neighborhood.
10:17:26 So give us an opportunity to look into the matter and we'll
10:17:29 see what we can do.
10:17:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say Mrs. Montelione is very
10:17:42 [ Laughter ]
10:17:43 >> You have answered our questions.
10:17:44 You have given us a positive feeling.
10:17:46 Because instead of us come in and saying we what we think
10:17:59 you just imagine what's in place.
10:18:01 We have a book a mile long.
10:18:03 But we thank you for your attitude and thank you for your
10:18:07 help, council.
10:18:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Reddick?
10:18:12 >>FRANK REDDICK: Do you have the names of those -- who own
10:18:16 those houses that you are speaking of?
10:18:17 >> We do have a list, sir.
10:18:21 At our North Hyde Park civic association neighborhood watch,
10:18:24 we have members that will come in.
10:18:29 Oh, it's this house right here, this is the address.
10:18:32 And we write it down.
10:18:33 We do have a list.
10:18:34 We will get the addresses to you.
10:18:36 If you want, we will give you specifics.
10:18:39 And if you like we'll call you in the middle of the night to
10:18:42 tell you of the parties.
10:18:50 [ Laughter ]
10:18:52 >> I'll be there because I'm the only night owl.
10:18:56 [ Laughter ]
10:18:56 >>FRANK REDDICK: Give us the addresses, and a brief summary
10:19:07 what's taking place, and we'll work with law enforcement to
10:19:12 see if they can do something.
10:19:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Other council members?
10:19:18 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I totally understand what you are talking
10:19:21 I just want to share this, that on the books, there are
10:19:25 rules and regulations as to how many people in a home, and I
10:19:29 will tell you why I know this, because we were bringing a
10:19:33 senator to Tampa to a house on Bayshore Boulevard.
10:19:38 And because there were more than 200, or about 200 people
10:19:44 come to this house, we had to have the fire marshal come in,
10:19:47 check the house out.
10:19:48 We had to have police.
10:19:53 We had to have valet.
10:19:55 We had to have all of this in our private homes bringing a
10:20:02 U.S. senator to Tampa.
10:20:04 So if that's what had to take place at 11:00 in the morning,
10:20:12 the rules are there.
10:20:13 It's a matter of enforcing those rules.
10:20:15 >> You hear all the comments that take place on this issue.
10:20:26 Ma'am, you have answered the question, that's why we have
10:20:30 come here for counsel, and you folks for sure have given us
10:20:36 the best feel you are giving us, the feeling that we need
10:20:39 from the city, and we do appreciate it.
10:20:41 And love your parties, but we love port-a-potty, security,
10:20:47 valet, and peace and quiet and a reasonable time to go home.
10:20:52 What's reasonable?
10:20:53 Thank you.
10:20:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say this.
10:20:54 We know both of you gentlemen for some time.
10:20:57 And north Hyde Park civic organization has been very, very
10:21:03 nice in the way they present their things.
10:21:05 They don't ask for anything that's not reasonable.
10:21:07 And we appreciate it very much.
10:21:10 On behalf of this council, I'm sure that there will be some
10:21:13 When I'm not positive.
10:21:14 But I'm sure that in sight there will be some relief given
10:21:19 to you.
10:21:19 And each one of us, if you would be kind enough to send us a
10:21:23 memorandum on that with all the information, when it
10:21:25 happens, the regularity it happens, and if it's going to
10:21:29 start, you call me and I'll give you each council member's
10:21:32 cell phone.
10:21:37 [ Laughter ] thank you very much.
10:21:43 All right.
10:21:44 We go now to requests for reconsideration of legislative
10:21:49 Anyone that wants to have something reconsidered that we
10:21:52 voted on?
10:21:53 I see no one there.
10:21:58 Yes, sir?
10:21:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, on your addendum is a
10:22:01 request from the city attorney.
10:22:02 She's present now to make that request.
10:22:03 >>JULIA MANDELL: City attorney.
10:22:07 I would like to make a request that City Council schedule a
10:22:10 closed session in the matter of Michael -- LLC versus City
10:22:15 of Tampa, and Glorida Moreda, middle district of Florida
10:22:22 case number 8-13-CV-885-T-24-EAJ, and I'm making this
10:22:31 request for a closed session to be scheduled on December
10:22:33 5th, the 2013, at 11:30 in order to receive advice from
10:22:38 City Council concerning this pending litigation.
10:22:41 >> So moved.
10:22:42 >> Second.
10:22:43 >> Motion by Mr. Cohen.
10:22:44 Seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
10:22:45 All in favor of that motion?
10:22:48 >>JULIA MANDELL: The location will be the 8th floor of
10:22:50 old City Hall in the city attorney's office.
10:22:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The memorandum of notification.
10:22:57 All in favor?
10:23:01 We will be in recess.
10:23:02 We are going to go into CRA.
10:23:03 And then we'll be back with the City Council
10:23:17 Go on.
10:23:18 You are going to have to identify yourself.
10:23:21 >>SAL TERRITO: You are hear for three or four teams today.
10:23:24 You are hear for the zoning items for both the height,
10:23:27 riverfront development agreement, and the legislative
10:23:30 matters as well.
10:23:33 Once you have taken them up here, the only item that will be
10:23:35 come before the CRA will be the development agreement
10:23:39 All the other items are strictly City Council in matters.
10:23:42 >> So then you are discussing that you would like to have
10:23:44 this council stay in session through item 70 and 73, 77?
10:23:50 >>SAL TERRITO: 67, 68 -- 66, 7, 8 and 9.
10:24:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Being at the hour past 10, these are
10:24:04 public hearings.
10:24:05 We are going to go skip the item for a second.
10:24:08 We are going to go to 67.
10:24:19 68 and 69.
10:24:20 Motion to open by Mr. Suarez.
10:24:22 Second by Mrs. Capin on 67, 68 and 69.
10:24:26 All in favor of that motion to open please signify by saying
10:24:29 Opposed nay.
10:24:30 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:24:33 Before we continue with quasi-judicial, anyone that's going
10:24:36 to speak, think of speaking or hopefully going to speak on
10:24:38 67, 68 and 69, would need to be sworn in.
10:24:42 Please rise, raise your right hand, be sworn in.
10:24:45 >> Could I get you to open 66 as well?
10:24:47 That's the vacating.
10:24:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll do that after swearing in.
10:24:54 (Oath administered by Clerk).
10:24:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
10:25:00 A motion to open by Mr. Cohen.
10:25:01 Second by Mr. Suarez on a close vote with Mrs. Mulhern.
10:25:08 All in favor of opening 66 please signify by saying aye.
10:25:11 Opposed nay.
10:25:11 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:25:13 66 is a quasi-judicial.
10:25:15 Anyone who is going to speak on 66 who has not been sworn in
10:25:18 shall be sworn in.
10:25:20 Anyone who has not been sworn in that wants to speak on item
10:25:23 number 66 needs to be sworn in.
10:25:25 I see no one.
10:25:27 Evidently those have already been sworn in.
10:25:29 Yes, ma'am. 66.
10:25:29 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Planning and development for item 66.
10:25:36 Again, there were no objections from staff and we are here
10:25:36 for any questions.
10:25:42 >> Anyone in the audience care to speak on 66?
10:25:44 Please come forward.
10:25:46 I have a motion to close by Mr. Cohen.
10:25:48 Seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
10:25:50 I saw no one come up.
10:25:55 Well, it started with an M.
10:25:57 All in favor of that motion?
10:25:59 Opposed nay?
10:26:00 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:26:02 Item number 66.
10:26:05 This is the second reading.
10:26:07 We go left to right.
10:26:16 >>CATHERINE COYLE: And 67 and 68, the certified site plans.
10:26:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Do you want to say anything on 66 at all?
10:26:22 >> No.
10:26:24 Site plans are on file with the clerk.
10:26:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item 66.
10:26:28 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Move an ordinance being presented for
10:26:31 second reading and adoption, an ordinance vacating, closing,
10:26:32 discontinuing, abandoning certain rights-of-way all or a
10:26:37 portion of those certain rights-of-way contained within the
10:26:40 proposed Heights community development district generally
10:26:43 located south of Ross Avenue, west of Tampa Street, north of
10:26:47 the north bank of the Hillsborough River, and east of North
10:26:50 Boulevard, in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County,
10:26:53 Florida the same being more fully described in section 1
10:26:56 hereof subject to certain easements, covenants, restrictions
10:26:59 and conditions as set forth herein, providing an effective
10:27:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is second reading.
10:27:06 For public benefit, I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione,
10:27:09 seconded by Mr. Cohen on a close vote with Mr. Suarez.
10:27:11 This is a roll call vote.
10:27:13 Vote and record.
10:27:13 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:27:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
10:27:30 Who wants to speak on 67?
10:27:33 >> Here on behalf of petitioner.
10:27:46 We appreciate your time and thoughtful consideration of this
10:27:51 and ask that you adopt for second reading.
10:27:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is a public hearing.
10:27:57 Item number 67.
10:28:00 Anyone in the public care to speak on this item?
10:28:02 Seeing no one I have a motion to close by Mrs. Capin, second
10:28:05 by Ms. Mulhern.
10:28:08 All in favor of the motion to close signify by saying aye.
10:28:10 Opposed nay.
10:28:11 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:28:12 Mr. Cohen, would you kindly take number 67?
10:28:15 >>HARRY COHEN: I move an ordinance being presented for
10:28:17 second reading and adoption.
10:28:19 An ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida relating to an
10:28:22 area rezoning, the general location of which is north of
10:28:25 Hillsborough River and interstate 275 south of Ross Avenue
10:28:30 east of North Boulevard and west of Tampa Street in the city
10:28:32 of Tampa, Florida from zoning district classifications,
10:28:36 planned development alternative, PD-A, for mixed use,
10:28:40 commercial, office, residential, residential multifamily,
10:28:44 RM-24, commercial general, CG, and commercial intensive, CI,
10:28:49 to planned development alternative PD-A, for mixed use,
10:28:53 commercial, office, residential, providing for notice,
10:28:56 providing an effective date.
10:28:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Cohen, seconded by
10:29:01 Mrs. Mulhern on a close vote with Mr. Suarez.
10:29:05 Discussion, Mrs. Capin?
10:29:10 >>YVONNE CAPIN: The original motion -- I'm sorry.
10:29:14 To include the site plan amended between first and second
10:29:18 Does that need to be read in?
10:29:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Coyle came up and said it when I was
10:29:26 taking up 66 that she had received all the documents on 67,
10:29:30 68, 69.
10:29:31 I'm sorry.
10:29:33 This is roll call vote.
10:29:37 Vote and record.
10:29:37 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:29:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 68.
10:29:54 Petitioner or anyone, city, going to speak on 68?
10:29:59 This is a public hearing.
10:30:00 Yes, ma'am.
10:30:00 >> Loan a Young-Green, Tampa Heights.
10:30:09 We had a meeting since the last hearing and also spoke with
10:30:14 the chair of our CAC for the CRA.
10:30:17 And we all agreed that we would like to see that the alcohol
10:30:23 coverage for this area remain as broad as possible to
10:30:26 encourage as many activities at this venue as could possibly
10:30:31 occur and revitalize that entire area.
10:30:35 And also looking from the perspective of jobs, entry level
10:30:39 jobs and activities that could impact many of our residents
10:30:43 who do not have employment right now.
10:30:45 So we encourage you to continue the direction that you are
10:30:48 going from our last meeting and ask that you use this
10:30:54 opportunity as broad as possible.
10:30:57 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you, Ms. Green, for that, and I
10:31:02 believe we did remove -- and it is in the addenda, and the
10:31:07 statement, the removal of those limiting events to 12 per
10:31:12 year for that, has been removed from the conditions.
10:31:17 Ms. Coyle?
10:31:21 Could you remind me what the operating hours are that was
10:31:27 Because I think one of the things that Ms. Green is
10:31:30 referring to, to keep the alcohol beverage permit as broad
10:31:36 as possible.
10:31:38 One was the number of events per year.
10:31:40 And I think the other was operating hours, if I am not
10:31:44 Right, Mrs. Young-Green?
10:31:47 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Planning and development.
10:31:48 The discussion occurred with City Council was whether or not
10:31:50 to change the hours of operation on the site plan.
10:31:53 From 7 a.m. to 3 a.m.
10:31:55 Specific hours per code.
10:31:57 What the applicant agreed to was to modify that to say
10:32:00 simply per City of Tampa code.
10:32:01 So it defaults to whatever the code is, which at this time
10:32:05 is 7 a.m. to 3 a.m. Monday through Saturday and Sunday 11 to
10:32:10 >> But if we change this code, we have this discussion
10:32:12 coming up on December 5th, and I know we can't make a
10:32:16 decision based on what might happen, but in light that the
10:32:21 discussion is only two weeks from now, it's been proposed
10:32:25 that we shorten the hours of operation under the city code,
10:32:31 which then would shorten the hours of operation under this
10:32:34 alcoholic beverage permit, correct?
10:32:37 >> Only on a general basis.
10:32:39 And any use that comes in could apply in this context for a
10:32:43 late night permit under the pending discussion that council
10:32:47 is looking at.
10:32:48 >>LISA MONTELIONE: But if the developer had on the site
10:32:53 plan till 3 a.m --
10:32:56 >> Then it would be 3 a.m.
10:32:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Then it would be 3 a.m.
10:33:01 And I think if I am reading into this correctly, I think
10:33:05 that's what Ms. Groan was referring to.
10:33:06 >> To put it into perspective, it is certified plan, second
10:33:12 If council would like to rediscuss that -- I think the vote
10:33:15 was 6-1 on that particular issue --
10:33:20 >>LISA MONTELIONE: 5-2.
10:33:21 Mr. Reddick and I.
10:33:22 >> You certainly can discuss it.
10:33:24 The applicant would have to agree to that change.
10:33:26 Then we would have to continue it back to another second
10:33:30 reading so I could resetter it.
10:33:33 It could not be adopted today.
10:33:34 >> So it would be up to Mr. Hardin then?
10:33:39 >> Yes.
10:33:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Commissioner Capin?
10:33:45 >>YVONNE CAPIN: So on December 5th, my crystal ball
10:33:50 tells me that this may or may not pass.
10:33:55 It is something that is coming forward.
10:33:59 Then the hours stay from 7 a.m. till 3 a.m.
10:34:06 >> That's correct.
10:34:07 It the adopted code.
10:34:09 >>YVONNE CAPIN: And if the code doesn't change it's the
10:34:11 adopted code.
10:34:12 >> Correct.
10:34:13 >>YVONNE CAPIN: And there are many, many in the city that
10:34:16 work under that code, or do business under that code.
10:34:21 So there's no one -- there's nothing being taken away other
10:34:31 than it is to code, and that's the code 7 a.m. to 3 a.m.,
10:34:38 and on Sunday is what?
10:34:40 >> 11 a.m. to 3 a.m.
10:34:43 >>YVONNE CAPIN: 11 a.m. to 3 a.m.
10:34:45 >>HARRY COHEN: I would like to say that I would like to go
10:34:50 forward today on second reading, and I would like to stick
10:34:52 with my original vote to have it the way it is, which is
10:34:58 according to city code.
10:34:59 3 a.m. closing is the largest latitude that we have under
10:35:03 our code.
10:35:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any council members before I go to round
10:35:12 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I wanted to point out that whether or
10:35:14 not we as this council, this body, change the code or not on
10:35:21 December 5th, if the hours of operation are stated in
10:35:25 accordance with city code, it doesn't mean any future
10:35:30 proposal or any future council years from now when we are
10:35:33 not sitting here anymore, a future council could change
10:35:37 those regulations.
10:35:38 So, you know, whatever decision we make on the 5th is
10:35:46 not maybe the issue for me.
10:35:48 It's that we are making this applicant have his hours of
10:35:59 operation dictated by city code no matter who is sitting
10:36:04 here, this defendant 5th proposal or not.
10:36:09 And it's not that I'm necessarily worried about December
10:36:17 Right now our code says 3 a.m.
10:36:21 And it's his right to ask for 3 a.m.
10:36:26 Thank you.
10:36:26 >>FRANK REDDICK: Just for clarification, Mr. Chair, the
10:36:38 3 a.m. on this particular site plan, December 5th, if we
10:36:42 modify that and say 2 a.m., how will he be impacted by this?
10:36:59 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The issue that council members are
10:37:00 discussing is whether or not the specific time as stated on
10:37:02 the plan.
10:37:03 Regardless of what the time is.
10:37:05 The advice that you received from the legal department on
10:37:07 this late night permit issue, it's the site plan or
10:37:13 ordinance, a specific time, regardless of what the code
10:37:16 says, but specific times, that would apply.
10:37:19 In the cop text of this new late night permit, it will apply
10:37:22 to all establishment in the city where it essentially says
10:37:30 up to code essentially.
10:37:31 In this context what the council directed was this site plan
10:37:36 per city code.
10:37:39 >>FRANK REDDICK: Per city code.
10:37:41 And that currently is 3 a.m.
10:37:43 >> Currently 3 a.m.
10:37:44 That's correct.
10:37:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else for round 2?
10:37:53 Mrs. Capin?
10:37:55 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Stating the hours on the site plan, that is
10:37:57 not code.
10:38:00 Correct or not?
10:38:02 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
10:38:03 There is no code requirement that you mention hours of
10:38:05 operation in any manner on the permit.
10:38:12 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
10:38:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say this.
10:38:15 You know, we are doing this on a handshake really.
10:38:19 When all this was developed, and this was going to come here
10:38:22 and the hotel was going to come here and a restaurant was
10:38:24 going to come here.
10:38:25 That's wonderful and I hope it happens that way.
10:38:27 But we are also rolling the dice.
10:38:29 What happens if we give all these alcohol licenses and the
10:38:33 hotel doesn't come?
10:38:36 Anything can come there.
10:38:37 They have the license.
10:38:39 You see, alcohol zoning is the only kind of zoning that can
10:38:43 never be taken away unless you commit a crime.
10:38:45 And even then, it's very difficult to remove.
10:38:49 So I'm not trying to lecture.
10:38:51 I'm trying to say let look at it realistic.
10:38:55 We don't have any buildings there.
10:38:56 We don't have any contracts there.
10:38:59 99.9% of the time when someone comes here, there's a
10:39:02 contract and something that's going to be built there or is
10:39:06 already there and they want to change the venue.
10:39:09 So this city is also taking a gamble, that what everyone
10:39:14 said is going to happen.
10:39:15 And sometimes we do that.
10:39:18 So what I'm saying is, let's be realistic about this, we are
10:39:23 all in this together, because this city, the resident are
10:39:27 taking a gamble, especially the neighbors that live there,
10:39:30 that this is going to be a reality, and the zoning that we
10:39:33 give for alcohol is exactly the way it was stated on the
10:39:37 Because it was stated on the plan doesn't mean that if the
10:39:42 hotel doesn't come that they can't use that area for
10:39:44 something else.
10:39:45 Am I correct?
10:39:47 >> That's correct, yes.
10:39:49 They have specific square footages, allotted for specific
10:39:53 uses so they can only draw down alcohol sales by use, by
10:39:58 square footage F.the hotel doesn't come, then they just have
10:40:01 that extra square footage that they can't transfer to
10:40:05 anything else other than a hotel.
10:40:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So you can build a one bedroom hotel.
10:40:12 Bed and breakfast, it would be a hotel.
10:40:14 I mean, let's be realistic.
10:40:17 They aren't going to do that.
10:40:18 I know this gentleman isn't going to do that.
10:40:20 That's not the concept.
10:40:21 >> A bed and breakfast is not a hotel.
10:40:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand that but what is the
10:40:25 definition of a hotel?
10:40:27 >> A hotel is a transient use with multiple rooms licensed
10:40:30 by the state.
10:40:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Multiple rooms.
10:40:32 What does that many?
10:40:33 >> In general.
10:40:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What does that mean, two, five, four?
10:40:36 I don't know.
10:40:37 >> It all has to be licensed by the state.
10:40:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand that.
10:40:42 Anything is possible in life.
10:40:44 Thank you very much.
10:40:45 All right.
10:40:46 Any further discussion by council members on item number 68?
10:40:52 Anyone in the public who wishes to speak on item number 68?
10:40:56 I don't see any.
10:40:59 Do you want to speak?
10:41:00 Yes, sir.
10:41:01 >> Thanks, Mrs. Montelione for your advocacy.
10:41:09 We respectfully request you move this forward and adopt it
10:41:12 at second reading.
10:41:14 Additionally, I didn't get to say anything earlier but I
10:41:17 realized when we filed our first document back in May, and I
10:41:23 wanted to say thank you to Bob and Catherine, a tremendous
10:41:32 amount of leadership in Bob's case, hundreds of Pinellas of
10:41:36 document and very complex.
10:41:38 And Catherine's not only diligence but I want to say thank
10:41:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else?
10:41:50 Motion to close by Mr. Reddick.
10:41:52 Seconded by Mr. Cohen.
10:41:53 All in favor of the motion to close, please signify by
10:41:56 saying aye.
10:41:57 Opposed nay.
10:41:58 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:41:59 Ms. Mulhern, would you kindly take number 68, please?
10:42:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented for
10:42:06 second reading and adoption, an ordinance approving a
10:42:08 special using permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, large
10:42:11 venue on premises couples and package sales off premises
10:42:15 couples and making lawful the sale of beverages regardless
10:42:17 of alcoholic content, beer, wine and liquor, on that certain
10:42:21 lot, plot or tract of land located at 1910 north Ola Avenue,
10:42:26 Tampa, Florida as more particularly described in section 2
10:42:29 that all ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict are
10:42:31 repealed, providing an effective date.
10:42:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have a motion by Mrs. Mulhern for
10:42:37 Seconded by Mr. Reddick.
10:42:38 This is a roll call vote.
10:42:40 Vote and record.
10:42:49 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:42:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 69.
10:42:55 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
10:42:59 Worry here on item 69 which is a development agreement from
10:43:02 Tampa hates riverfront development.
10:43:05 At the last meeting we had, this is the second public
10:43:09 meeting P.at the last public meeting you asked me to make a
10:43:12 change total WMBE provisions that would basically bind the
10:43:16 developer and any builders to the city standard for those
10:43:20 items, and that's what I have done.
10:43:22 I sent you a page with those changes on it.
10:43:24 That is the only change from the original development
10:43:26 agreement that we reviewed at the last council meeting.
10:43:32 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Territo.
10:43:35 I'm happy to see that you amended the development agreement
10:43:39 to have at least city code.
10:43:41 And I hope going forward all development agreements we have
10:43:45 come before us that that will become the standard policy
10:43:49 that they must meet the city code as we move forward.
10:43:53 So that should be given great consideration.
10:43:58 I think that will eliminate a lot of questions that Mrs.
10:44:01 Montelione and the staff had pertaining.
10:44:06 So I appreciate you taking it into consideration.
10:44:08 >>SAL TERRITO: You're welcome.
10:44:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is a public hearing.
10:44:13 It is open.
10:44:14 Item number 69.
10:44:18 Anyone wishing to speak on number 69?
10:44:20 Petition per, do you want to speak on number 69?
10:44:23 One more time.
10:44:24 Anyone in the audience that wishes to speak on number 69.
10:44:26 Need a motion to close by Mrs. Capin.
10:44:29 Second by Mr. Cohen.
10:44:30 All in favor of the motion to close please signify by saying
10:44:33 Opposed nay.
10:44:35 Mr. Reddick, would you kindly take number 69, please?
10:44:39 >>FRANK REDDICK: Yes.
10:44:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm sorry, it's just moving of the
10:44:46 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move the resolution.
10:44:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Moving of the resolution by Mr. Reddick,
10:44:50 seconded by Mr. Suarez.
10:44:52 All in favor please signify bay saying aye.
10:44:55 Opposed nay?
10:44:55 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:44:56 Thank you all very much for participating in this event.
10:45:03 We are going to convene.
10:45:06 Council will take a recess.
10:45:08 And we are going to change the tapes here and go to CRA.
10:45:11 Do you need any time, clerk?
10:45:13 >>THE CLERK: No.
10:45:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Reddick, it's your motion.
10:45:41 (City Council meeting in recess).
10:45:50 >>FRANK REDDICK: We'll call this Community Redevelopment
10:45:51 Agency meeting to order.
10:45:54 Roll call.
10:45:54 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Hear.
10:45:56 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Present.
10:45:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
10:45:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
10:45:59 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
10:45:59 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Here.
10:46:00 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
10:46:03 All right.
10:46:04 >>BOB McDONAUGH: Economic development administrator.
10:46:13 We are asking for approval of the Tampa Heights riverfront
10:46:17 development agreement, which has been previously presented
10:46:21 to City Council, and now it hear for the CRA board's
10:46:25 >> So moved.
10:46:28 >> Second.
10:46:29 >>FRANK REDDICK: Discussion on the motion?
10:46:30 Moved by Councilman Miranda.
10:46:32 Seconded by Councilman Cohen.
10:46:34 All in favor of the motion say aye.
10:46:36 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Move to receive and file.
10:46:40 >>FRANK REDDICK: All in favor say aye.
10:46:46 Boy, this is the shortest CRA meeting we ever had.
10:46:50 We stand adjourned.
10:47:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I guess I open City Council.
10:47:02 We'll take roll call again.
10:47:06 City Council is called to order.
10:47:16 Roll call.
10:47:17 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Hear.
10:47:19 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Present.
10:47:19 >>FRANK REDDICK: Hear.
10:47:20 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
10:47:21 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
10:47:22 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Here.
10:47:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
10:47:25 All right.
10:47:26 Going back to the original agenda.
10:47:27 We are going to go now to committee reports.
10:47:30 We go to Public Safety Committee chair, Mr. Frank Reddick.
10:47:37 I have a motion by Mr. Reddick.
10:47:39 Second by Mr. Cohen.
10:47:40 All in favor of the motion?
10:47:43 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:47:44 Parks, Recreation, Culture Committee chair, Mary Mulhern.
10:47:47 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 6 through 17.
10:47:51 >> Second.
10:47:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second by Mr. Suarez.
10:47:54 All in favor of the motion?
10:47:56 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:47:57 Public Works Committee chair, Mr. Mike Suarez.
10:48:00 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I move items 18 through 24.
10:48:03 >> Second.
10:48:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mr. Suarez, second by Mr.
10:48:06 Reddick on a close vote with Mr. Cohen.
10:48:09 All in favor?
10:48:11 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:48:12 Finance chair, Mr. Harry Cohen.
10:48:14 >>HARRY COHEN: I move items 25 through 34.
10:48:17 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
10:48:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mr. Cohen including the
10:48:21 resolution on 27, second by Mr. Suarez.
10:48:23 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
10:48:26 Opposed nay.
10:48:26 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:48:30 Building, zoning, preservation committee.
10:48:36 >>HARRY COHEN: Read number 27.
10:48:37 I move a resolution being presented for second reading and
10:48:40 adoption, a resolution amending the rules of procedure rule
10:48:44 3-B-2 governing the order of business of the meetings. City
10:48:47 Council, the City of Tampa, providing an effective date.
10:48:49 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
10:48:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mr. Cohen with the resolution.
10:48:54 Second by Mr. Suarez.
10:48:55 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
10:48:59 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:49:00 Building, zoning, and preservation committee chair, Lisa
10:49:04 >>LISA MONTELIONE: You are struggling over the simple
10:49:09 Before I move the items, I just want to say that today there
10:49:13 are quite a number of wonderful things on this committee
10:49:18 being moved.
10:49:19 And many of the CDBG, community development block grant
10:49:24 funds are going to very worthy causes, including many of the
10:49:29 homeless programs that we support.
10:49:33 I also want to point out that the work that is being done at
10:49:38 Sulphur Springs, the houses that have been demolished, the
10:49:43 Nehamiah project, those lots will be come back to life with
10:49:46 the Sulphur Springs area neighborhood stabilization program
10:49:50 funding to construct brand new houses that will go a long
10:49:54 way to revitalizing one of the most needy areas of our city.
10:49:59 So with that I move items 35 through 60.
10:50:02 >> Second.
10:50:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mrs. Montelione, second by Mr.
10:50:07 All in favor?
10:50:09 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:50:12 Transportation committee chair, Ms. Yvonne Yolie Capin.
10:50:23 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I wanted you to do the accent.
10:50:25 You do the accent for everyone. Anyway, transportation
10:50:30 I move item 64 -- 61 and 62.
10:50:34 >> Second.
10:50:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mrs. Capin, second by Mr.
10:50:39 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
10:50:42 Opposed nay.
10:50:42 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:50:45 Need a motion to move 64, 63, set for public hearing by
10:50:48 council in the future.
10:50:50 Motion by Mr. Reddick on 63 and 64.
10:50:52 Second by Mr. Cohen.
10:50:54 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
10:50:58 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:50:59 We are going to stop for a second and go to our wonderful
10:51:02 staff reports.
10:51:08 >>DAVE VAUGHAN: Director of contract administration, here
10:51:10 with Greg Spearman, director of purchasing, to speak to you
10:51:13 on item 70 and 73.
10:51:14 I appreciate you hearing these sort of together.
10:51:19 They are separate topics but are related and the same cast
10:51:22 of characters.
10:51:24 For clarity sake item 70 deals with vendors who are in
10:51:30 arrears to the city.
10:51:31 Item 73 has to do with situations.
10:51:38 On item 70 you have been provided with a joint report from
10:51:41 Greg and myself as we have similar responses.
10:51:47 This goes back to a discussion we had at the beginning of
10:51:49 this year.
10:51:50 And one of the things that came out of that discussion was
10:51:53 while there was a sense that we weren't awarding a lot of
10:51:56 contracts to people who were in arrears to us, there was not
10:52:00 a process being taken to ensure that.
10:52:02 One thing that has been implemented since that discussion,
10:52:07 both Greg and myself have met with code enforcement.
10:52:11 As we open bids before they come to you for award, they are
10:52:14 sent for code enforcement to check against those fine
10:52:19 situations and lien situations and having clear reports
10:52:22 before we proceed with award.
10:52:24 And that's been occurring since February of this year.
10:52:28 We also during that report talked about the fact that TRP
10:52:33 was beginning to be implemented and the procurement wave was
10:52:36 not the first wave that was going to happen this fall.
10:52:39 And that, I think, resulted us in bringing us back today to
10:52:44 give you an update on that as well.
10:52:46 And that is in progress but we have not implemented it yet.
10:52:49 We are looking both at the technology issues associated with
10:52:55 various places where vendors might show up and just
10:53:02 logistically dealing with that, and also with coordination
10:53:11 with the implementation of this wave.
10:53:13 That is scheduled as indicated in our report, to come to be
10:53:17 implemented in the first quarter of next year.
10:53:19 And so our suggestion is if you would like a report for us
10:53:23 to come back at that time, we would be happy to do that and
10:53:25 give you an update.
10:53:27 With that, I will stop on 70 and entertain questions and
10:53:31 then move to 73.
10:53:32 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move staff recommendation.
10:53:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Montelione?
10:53:38 >>LISA MONTELIONE: One second.
10:53:40 I noted in the memo -- I wanted to know, contract
10:53:47 administration, describing contract language, submitting
10:53:52 parties, purchasing contracts, contain matching language.
10:53:57 And then there was in the second paragraph was dated
10:54:03 additional reviews in conjunction with records maintained by
10:54:06 code enforcement provision, but that, I believe, only
10:54:10 referred to contract administration.
10:54:12 And I wanted to make sure that purchasing and contracting
10:54:18 were aligned.
10:54:19 And I think you said it there, that they are.
10:54:22 >> And that's the intent of the first sentence of that
10:54:27 Those purchasing and contract administration initiated
10:54:29 additional review.
10:54:31 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And we had some discussion when we
10:54:36 discussed the template contracts lake about a year ago.
10:54:39 And that was some of the concern that I had.
10:54:43 And it seems that the February discussion, and now you said
10:54:51 that a review has been done to see if there were any
10:54:53 outstanding liens or debts.
10:54:59 >>DAVE VAUGHAN: We have not gone backwards with contracts
10:55:01 that have been executed.
10:55:02 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I know, you read my maned.
10:55:06 >>DAVE VAUGHAN: From that point forward as we open bids, we
10:55:08 are sending those to code enforcement.
10:55:11 >>LISA MONTELIONE: You read my maned because that's what I
10:55:13 was getting at.
10:55:14 Do we have contractors currently working for us that we have
10:55:16 awarded contracts to?
10:55:21 >>DAVE VAUGHAN: We are not aware of any.
10:55:23 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay.
10:55:23 Before we deliver that final payment, we want to make sure
10:55:26 that we are not giving them money that we might be owed.
10:55:31 >>DAVE VAUGHAN: Correct.
10:55:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any further discussion by council
10:55:34 Mr. Reddick, would you state that motion again?
10:55:39 >>FRANK REDDICK: (off microphone).
10:55:44 >>DAVE VAUGHAN: The first quarter of 2014.
10:55:47 March was the end of that quarter.
10:55:48 And we should have an update for you at that time.
10:55:50 >>FRANK REDDICK: My motion for contract administration is
10:55:53 to come back in March.
10:55:59 >>LISA MONTELIONE: All right.
10:56:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Would you give me a date for the record?
10:56:02 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I have the calendar here.
10:56:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Beef March 6th, or 27th.
10:56:19 6, 13, 27?
10:56:23 We go to 13, the middle. Month.
10:56:24 >> Whatever the third Thursday in March is.
10:56:29 >>FRANK REDDICK: March 6th under staff reports.
10:56:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion made by Mr. Reddick.
10:56:36 Seconded by "me" Mrs. Montelione.
10:56:40 All in favor of that motion indicate by saying aye.
10:56:43 Opposed nay.
10:56:45 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:56:47 >>DAVE VAUGHAN: For item number 73, Greg and I have actually
10:56:49 provided you with separate reports because our circumstances
10:56:53 differ a little bit.
10:56:54 I am going to give you a synopsis of mine.
10:56:57 Then step out of the way and let Greg talk to you about his.
10:57:01 Reality is that when this motion was brought forward, there
10:57:04 were actually two motions that were made, and only one of
10:57:07 them tulip got printed in the agenda.
10:57:08 So I will be covering both of those.
10:57:11 The first one is for us to talk to you about when things are
10:57:19 rebid, having that identified in the packages.
10:57:23 And contract admin has two comment.
10:57:27 One is we do not typically have situations -- and I can't
10:57:30 recall a situation when we have had a rebid for
10:57:35 We have rebids when we don't receive a bid that we can award
10:57:38 to begin with.
10:57:40 And historically, as recently as your last council meeting,
10:57:46 that is identified in the resolution and in the background
10:57:48 that goes with the package that you get.
10:57:51 We identify that.
10:57:53 And in the case of -- in our case, what we are awarding
10:57:58 sometimes, it's not a rebid but we are awarding to a
10:58:02 seconded bier or low bidder because the bid has to be thrown
10:58:05 out, we identify that for you in the resolution and in the
10:58:08 background so you get that information.
10:58:10 The second motion that was made was for us to report to you
10:58:14 within the last year how many rebids that we have had.
10:58:19 And I have details for you in my report, two projects that
10:58:22 have that circumstance.
10:58:24 The first one where we received two bids.
10:58:28 The low bid was rejected.
10:58:31 Seconded by was deemed too hey.
10:58:34 The result was that we got more bids, and the low bid was
10:58:37 the last but that's the good circumstance and that's what
10:58:41 you approved final payment on at your last council meeting.
10:58:44 The other example that we had was a set-aside project where
10:58:50 we only received one bid.
10:58:51 We said that's not good enough, we need to rebid this.
10:58:54 We still bid it as a set-aside project.
10:58:59 We received three bids and again the low bid was lower than
10:59:02 the single bid that we received.
10:59:03 But those are the only two rebid situations that contract
10:59:06 administration had during the last year.
10:59:08 As a footnote, typically when we have problems with
10:59:13 performance, we have a performance bond and default is the
10:59:18 mechanism that's used.
10:59:20 Again, that is a rare occurrence for us.
10:59:22 And FY 13 we did not have any defaulted projects.
10:59:26 With that, I am going to step aside and let Greg report.
10:59:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez?
10:59:36 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I see on one of the bids here -- and I think
10:59:39 you may have touched on this, I don't know -- which was a
10:59:43 city-wide tree service.
10:59:44 I think this is one that we had talked about, that defaulted
10:59:47 for nonperformance and then re-awarded it in FY 13.
10:59:52 Another question in terms of rebid.
10:59:58 This is a process and procedure.
11:00:00 When do we rebid when someone, a someone vendor has already
11:00:05 been awarded a bid?
11:00:06 And what would be circumstances in order to rebid?
11:00:10 Not the obvious ones which is nonperformance, or some other
11:00:14 kind of financial issue.
11:00:15 What is it that we look at when we try and rebid if the
11:00:18 person is already perform the job?
11:00:26 >>DAVE VAUGHAN: I'm not sure that hi understand your
11:00:28 >> The question is do we ever rebid when someone is perform
11:00:31 the service or providing the equipment or whatever it is
11:00:33 that we have to bid on, and we have them rebid?
11:00:40 >>DAVE VAUGHAN: The closest circumstance in contract
11:00:42 administration that I can come up with is we have annual
11:00:45 contracts where they are perform the service, and it reaches
11:00:47 the end of the term of the contract and/or time for renewal,
11:00:52 and we elect not to renew, or we elect to rebid at that
11:00:56 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I know somebody was rebid three times in one
11:01:01 year for no particular reason.
11:01:08 I'm not going to ask that question right now.
11:01:13 I'll let you answer the question about the tree
11:01:16 performance -- the tree service, excuse me.
11:01:18 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Director of purchasing.
11:01:20 There are a couple of instances where we may entertain a
11:01:25 As David, his comment a moment ago, if a contract comes to
11:01:32 an end then obviously we have to rebid it.
11:01:34 If there's a performance issue, we may rebid the contract.
11:01:39 Particularly, we don't have a second or third bidder who is
11:01:42 willing to do that work, or if there are substantial changes
11:01:46 in the market in terms of positions changing or if vendor is
11:01:54 coming back with something unreasonable in terms of pricing
11:01:57 to be charged to the city, we will rebid under those
11:02:02 >> What do you mean by rebid then?
11:02:05 I think we are talking in cross purposes here.
11:02:07 I'm talking about if someone has defaulted because of
11:02:10 performance and they get re-awarded the same contract, or
11:02:13 maybe there's different changes to the contract, is it a
11:02:15 default by them?
11:02:16 Because we can't perform it because market conditions have
11:02:19 That's one thing.
11:02:20 Rebid, the way I look at rebid -- and I may be wrong in
11:02:24 terms of the term knoll -- is we are rebidding because we
11:02:27 don't like what's going on with this particular vendor.
11:02:29 I think that we need -- hang on, Mr. Spearman -- we need to
11:02:36 flush that out.
11:02:37 And when we put the reason for rebid, I think we need to be
11:02:40 more clear as to what this actually means.
11:02:43 When you put defaulted for nonperformance that says
11:02:47 something to me that may not -- may mean something different
11:02:51 to purchasing than it does a layman like myself.
11:02:55 Default is not a good thing.
11:02:56 But when you say default, and then we re-award it to a that
11:03:02 same vendor, it may not mean something as egregious, in my
11:03:06 But it has to be clarified because I don't think we can use
11:03:09 though terms if the reason why they are quote-unquote
11:03:13 defaulting is because of market conditions.
11:03:18 >>GREG SPEARMAN: What you are referring to, Councilman
11:03:20 Suarez, they default the award.
11:03:22 What that means is we had a contract awarded to a vendor,
11:03:26 and for some reason defaulted.
11:03:29 Then we went to the second or third vendor and asked them if
11:03:34 they would perform under the same terms and conditions but
11:03:37 at their price.
11:03:39 That becomes a re-award.
11:03:41 >>MIKE SUAREZ: But the point I am making --
11:03:48 >> Default and then re-award.
11:03:52 >>MIKE SUAREZ: That's not what it says here.
11:03:54 So again a clarification issue here.
11:03:56 Because on other parts of this particular report, it does
11:04:01 say who it's been awarded to, awarded to, excuse me, after
11:04:07 So either I'm messing up something here and I'm not
11:04:10 understanding, and it's very possible that's true, or this
11:04:13 is not clear enough.
11:04:14 So my suggestion is clean up the report a little bit.
11:04:18 Because it does not read that way.
11:04:20 And I will read exactly what I am talking about.
11:04:22 City-wide tree service re-award.
11:04:25 It says default for nonperformance, re-awarded FY 2013.
11:04:30 What that says is they got re-awarded for the performance.
11:04:34 You say no.
11:04:35 But you cannot write something like this without a layman
11:04:37 like myself thinking they got re-awarded.
11:04:40 It's not clear.
11:04:41 >>GREG SPEARMAN: But in the report that we the put
11:04:46 together, we do specify that.
11:04:48 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I believe in simplicity when we do these
11:04:52 reports and clarifications.
11:04:54 If you don't mind, I think that we need to talk about
11:04:56 terminology, and make sure we are all straight on the same
11:05:00 So, you know, so that we understand exactly what we are
11:05:04 talking about, when we ask you questions about performance
11:05:07 or nonperformance.
11:05:08 So I think maybe we all have to -- and we'll talk about this
11:05:12 offline and maybe determine where we are at on this, okay?
11:05:16 >> Okay.
11:05:16 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, Mr. Spearman.
11:05:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Reddick?
11:05:22 >>FRANK REDDICK: When a contractor defaults, on their
11:05:26 contract, with the city, is there any time how long they
11:05:34 have to stay removed from bidding before they can be awarded
11:05:37 another contract?
11:05:39 Is there policy in place for that.
11:05:41 >> We generally ask the contractor to professor demonstrate
11:05:45 to the city those areas of deficiency where they defaulted
11:05:48 that those have been corrected.
11:05:49 And if they cannot demonstrate that either through having
11:05:52 the proper resources, equipment or employees, then the city
11:05:55 will not entertain.
11:05:58 They have to show they have corrected the areas of default.
11:06:01 >>FRANK REDDICK: Do they have to wait out a period of time
11:06:05 before they can even put in another bid for a contract?
11:06:11 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Generally it will be a minimum of 12 month
11:06:14 because most of our contracts are awarded on an annual basis
11:06:17 so that gives them at least 12 months to go back and correct
11:06:20 the deficiencies.
11:06:21 They may have been awarded similar contract in other
11:06:24 jurisdictions and they can show us that too if they have
11:06:27 been successful with other agencies.
11:06:28 But generally about a 12-month period because our contracts
11:06:31 are awarded on an annual basis.
11:06:34 >>FRANK REDDICK: I see Mr. Suarez is reading off a report.
11:06:42 I don't know where mine is at.
11:06:44 But I might be duplicating.
11:06:47 But I just want to know, in that report, when we requested
11:06:52 the number of bids in the previous fiscal year they had to
11:07:02 be rebid.
11:07:03 Do you have that number?
11:07:04 Because I don't have the report.
11:07:05 >> In the report I believe the total is 21.
11:07:12 Formal and informal bids.
11:07:15 >>FRANK REDDICK: Out of that 21, how many have been awarded
11:07:21 another contract?
11:07:24 >>GREG SPEARMAN: To another contractor?
11:07:28 >>FRANK REDDICK: Of that 21 you mention how many have been
11:07:31 awarded another city contract?
11:07:33 >> In every case we awarded another contract, I haven't
11:07:36 really counted that number up.
11:07:39 But default for nonperformance that basically means that we
11:07:44 either rebid the contract or we have to award it to the next
11:07:50 lowest --
11:07:51 >> No, no, I'm asking, you say 21.
11:07:55 So out of the 21 that you listed, how many have received
11:08:00 another contract with the city?
11:08:01 >> Okay, how many of these?
11:08:04 >> 21, right.
11:08:05 >> None of these have received.
11:08:07 >>FRANK REDDICK: None have received?
11:08:10 But put in the bid?
11:08:13 >> Normally it's from 12 months.
11:08:16 And they would have had to wait out a 12-month period before
11:08:19 they would be able to rebid because that's when we determine
11:08:22 the contract.
11:08:23 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
11:08:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions by council members on 737?
11:08:32 Everyone satisfied with the report?
11:08:34 Thank you very much for appearing.
11:08:35 And we'll continue.
11:08:37 Item number 71.
11:08:41 And it's 11:08.
11:08:42 We are going to stop this hearing at 11:15 and reconvene at
11:08:51 >>CATHERINE COYLE: For item 72, I believe it was just a
11:08:53 resolution for the urban forest management plan.
11:08:57 If it would be possible to have number 72.
11:09:05 Just noting there's only 7 minutes and if we get too long on
11:09:08 the discussion on 71, I would need to get 72 passed.
11:09:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay, we'll stop 71 and go to 72, ma'am.
11:09:14 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Thank you.
11:09:17 You asked me to bring back the resolution for urban forest
11:09:20 management plan that Mr. Shelby was so kind to help with the
11:09:24 edit on that.
11:09:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: University of South Florida if I recall.
11:09:28 >>HARRY COHEN: Move item 72.
11:09:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion to move 72 by Mr. Cohen,
11:09:33 seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
11:09:35 All in favor?
11:09:37 The ayes have it unanimously.
11:09:41 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Thank you.
11:09:42 Item 71.
11:09:43 What I have given you today is the central business, the
11:09:54 regulations for alcohol downtown.
11:09:57 What I understood from that motion and the discussions we
11:10:00 had was to look at allowing more flexibility specifically in
11:10:06 the central business district.
11:10:07 And there were a couple of cases that came up in the past
11:10:10 where you had locations that had package sales associated
11:10:13 with a small retail shop, and they were looking to do
11:10:16 on-site as well.
11:10:20 So what I included was allowing on premises, and --
11:10:25 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Ms. Coyle, before we get too in-depth,
11:10:29 on the table, on the CBD1 and CBD2, there's a fat note
11:10:36 So like the first one says S-2 and then a 9, a 7.
11:10:45 I only have the footnote of the 6.
11:10:50 >> There was an error in the code the last time it was
11:10:54 They didn't update the numbers in the table for the
11:10:57 >> Then I'm having trouble following along.
11:11:06 >> Just the footnotes in the last ordinance, it really just
11:11:09 refers to the requirement they follow the special use
11:11:12 I think it's footnote 3 or 4.
11:11:15 >>LISA MONTELIONE: On the back of the handout it says
11:11:24 existing code, around number 3.
11:11:28 >> Correct.
11:11:29 These are not footnotes.
11:11:31 If you want to the include the footnotes, to hopefully not
11:11:35 confuse you on the footnote numbers.
11:11:37 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well, just strike all of those footnote
11:11:42 >> They are going to republish it themselves because it's a
11:11:45 publishing error.
11:11:46 I can't remember the footnote number if it's 3 or 4 of the 6
11:11:50 you saw in code.
11:11:51 There's one in the code that actually says refer to the
11:11:54 special use standards for alcoholic beverage permitting.
11:11:58 All those numbers should simply refer to that requirement.
11:12:01 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I'm sorry.
11:12:10 Simply stated, because maybe I'm missing -- I mean, I
11:12:13 understand --
11:12:15 >> Ignore the numbers that you see in the table for the
11:12:20 It was a publishing error.
11:12:22 You noted that you saw footnote 6.
11:12:24 So --
11:12:26 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I'm ignoring the numbers that I see on
11:12:29 the table.
11:12:29 What am I supposed to replace those numbers in my mind with?
11:12:34 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That's what I was referencing.
11:12:36 You said fat note 1 through 6 in the code.
11:12:39 It's not in there.
11:12:40 Because the footnote says refer to the special use
11:12:43 These all it says.
11:12:44 That's just a requirement that you follow the special use
11:12:47 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I think I got it now.
11:12:49 >> It's just a simple footnote.
11:12:56 Anyway, looking at convenience, retail, shoppers good
11:13:00 retail, and specialty, those typical retail uses, council
11:13:06 noted downtown wanted on-site couples as well.
11:13:11 I think one was used recently.
11:13:14 So the general motion that came before council is looking at
11:13:18 flexibility in general.
11:13:19 So allowing package of certain retail establishments.
11:13:24 That's what I included.
11:13:25 And 27-132 are the actual specific criteria for alcohol.
11:13:31 So what I did -- and you will note, this one, alcohol
11:13:37 beverage sales, A, S-1, I went ahead and captured that
11:13:42 little header right there where it says AB sales within the
11:13:46 central business district.
11:13:48 Calling those out specifically.
11:13:49 And that's where you start to see the underlying language.
11:13:52 So all I did was take the existing language for hotels,
11:13:56 shoppers goods, special restaurant, restaurant, small venue
11:14:00 and large venue, and I replicated it under the central
11:14:04 business district as a separate section.
11:14:07 And I broadened the consumption on premises licenses for the
11:14:12 retail establishments.
11:14:13 And within the special restaurant and restaurant, I added
11:14:21 that language and removed the hours of operation that were
11:14:24 in the code which don't apply to downtown anyway.
11:14:26 So that's pretty much it.
11:14:28 I just wanted to give you some options, noting that number 3
11:14:32 shouldn't be underlined because it's already in code.
11:14:34 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
11:14:38 And when would these changes go into effect?
11:14:43 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Well, I would bring the options to you so
11:14:45 it's really up to council policywise what you want to
11:14:48 You can certainly move them into the January cycle and we
11:14:50 can move that forward.
11:14:52 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I would like to do that because I think
11:14:54 clarifying the code and simplifying the code, we have a lot
11:14:56 of business development downtown, we have a lot of new
11:14:59 restaurants, we have a lot of new establishments coming into
11:15:02 the downtown area, and I think it would do a lot to help
11:15:05 them have a clearer process and a more simplified process to
11:15:13 go through.
11:15:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me just say this.
11:15:16 And I understand what you are saying.
11:15:18 But in the absence of time, this is a lot to digest in two
11:15:23 minutes that we have had here.
11:15:25 And have you met with council members on this?
11:15:31 >> No.
11:15:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Stop it from going to the January cycle
11:15:34 before we put it in the cycle?
11:15:37 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No.
11:15:37 You asked me to come back --
11:15:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: But I'm asking these questions so we can
11:15:40 facilitate --
11:15:42 >> The January cycle doesn't start until January 15th so
11:15:44 we have time.
11:15:45 If you want me to come back in January we can do that.
11:15:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would like for you to meet with each
11:15:50 council member, because you have got a page and a half two,
11:15:56 It's a lot to digest real quick.
11:15:58 >>CATHERINE COYLE: If I can just get some direction.
11:16:03 >>HARRY COHEN: January 9th.
11:16:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion for January 9th by Mr. Cohen.
11:16:10 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I want to find out from Mrs. Coyle,
11:16:14 she's asking for direction in what regard?
11:16:17 >>CATHERINE COYLE: What I understood as I said before is
11:16:18 having a little more flexibility in the downtown only,
11:16:21 specifically for on-site and off-site couples in some of the
11:16:25 retail establishment.
11:16:26 If that's clear direction from council, I can clean this
11:16:28 document up and then meet with each of you individually
11:16:31 before January 9th.
11:16:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm asking you to meet with us
11:16:35 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Okay.
11:16:38 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So I move that Ms. Coyle return to us
11:16:41 January 9th at 10:00 a.m. under staff reports.
11:16:51 >>HARRY COHEN: They are no longer at 10 a.m.
11:16:54 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So for Ms. Coyle to return with a
11:16:57 recommendation for the central business district schedule
11:17:02 permitted principal, accessory and special use change table
11:17:07 18-1 and code language on January 9th under staff
11:17:10 reports for consideration for the January cycle.
11:17:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion.
11:17:16 And also to meet with us before then included.
11:17:18 I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione, seconded by Mr. Cohen.
11:17:22 Further discussion by council members?
11:17:24 All in favor of the motion?
11:17:26 Motion passed unanimously.
11:17:28 We stand in recess till 2:00 p.m.
11:17:31 Thank you very much.
11:17:36 >>> (City Council in recess.)
This file represents an unedited version of realtime
captioning which should neither be relied upon for complete
accuracy nor used as a verbatim transcript.
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Tampa City Council
Thursday, November 21, 2013
2:00 p.m. continuation
This file represents an unedited version of realtime
captioning which should neither be relied upon for complete
accuracy nor used as a verbatim transcript.
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of third
party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.
01:23:57 [Sounding gavel]
02:01:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: City Council is called back in session.
02:01:23 Roll call.
02:01:23 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
02:01:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
02:01:29 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
02:01:30 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Here.
02:01:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
02:01:33 We go back to item 65 on the agenda.
02:01:36 It's a public hearing for second reading, an ordinance.
02:01:41 >> Move to open the public hearing on item number 65.
02:01:44 >> Motion by Mr. Cohen, seconded by Mrs. Montelione to open
02:01:48 the hearing.
02:01:49 All in favor?
02:01:51 Item number 65 is now open.
02:01:56 None in the audience care to speak on item 65?
02:02:03 >> Move to close.
02:02:04 >> Motion to close by Mr. Cohen.
02:02:06 Seconded by Ms. Mulhern with a close vote by Mr. Suarez.
02:02:11 All in favor to close?
02:02:13 The ayes have it unanimous.
02:02:15 Mr. Suarez, would you kindly take the second reading for
02:02:17 item number 65, please?
02:02:26 Capital improvement element but updating the scheduled
02:02:28 projects for fiscal year 2014 through fiscal year 2018,
02:02:33 Florida Department of Transportation work schedule for
02:02:35 fiscal year 2013 through fiscal year 2017 by updating the
02:02:39 Hillsborough County public school facility five year work
02:02:42 program for fiscal year 2013 through fiscal year 2017,
02:02:46 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
02:02:49 providing for severability, providing an effective date.
02:02:51 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
02:02:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Suarez.
02:02:55 A second by Mr. Cohen.
02:02:57 This is a roll call vote.
02:02:59 Vote and record.
02:02:59 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Reddick and Capin being
02:03:11 absent at vote.
02:03:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.
02:03:20 We go now to item number 75.
02:03:22 >> In case anybody hasn't heard from this morning item 74
02:03:32 was withdrawn by the petitioner, and I believe the remaining
02:03:35 items are quasi-judicial through number --
02:03:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have 75 through 1.
02:03:42 >> Move to open the hearing on 75 through 81.
02:03:47 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
02:03:50 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Second.
02:03:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seconded by Mrs. Montelione and Mr. Cohen
02:03:56 on a tie.
02:03:57 Items 75 through 81 are now open.
02:04:00 This is quasi-judicial.
02:04:01 Anyone that's going to testify, think of testifying, hoping
02:04:04 to testify, please stand up and get sworn in for this
02:04:10 (Oath administered by Clerk).
02:04:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 375 through 81.
02:04:19 Need a motion for all the items that have been sent in, 75
02:04:23 through 81.
02:04:25 Receive and file.
02:04:26 Motion by Mrs. Montelione, second by Mr. Cohen.
02:04:29 All in favor of that?
02:04:32 The ayes have it.
02:04:33 Yes, ma'am.
02:04:34 >>BARBARA LYNCH:Land Development Coordination.
02:04:37 C-3-12 is a request to vacate an alley in the Hyde Park
02:04:43 And I have a map of the overhead.
02:04:52 Tampa Bay alley runs from between Magnolia and cedar
02:04:56 avenues, and from Cleveland to Grand Central.
02:04:59 The property owners are requesting vacating, the vacated
02:05:05 alley is in yellow. As you can see it's one owner.
02:05:11 This is a shot of the alley looking north from Cleveland
02:05:17 This is the alley looking south from Grand Central Avenue.
02:05:21 These are some of the properties owned by the petitioner.
02:05:25 This is looking west from cedar Avenue.
02:05:32 Looking east from Mac knoll yeah. Looking south from Grand
02:05:36 This is west of the alley.
02:05:38 And this is the property looking north from Cleveland east
02:05:43 of the alley.
02:05:43 Staff has no objection to this request.
02:05:46 There is a request for easement by TECO and Bright House.
02:05:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Petitioner?
02:05:54 >> Good afternoon.
02:06:02 Gina Grimes with the law firm of Hill, Ward, Henderson, 101
02:06:07 East Kennedy Boulevard.
02:06:08 Our law firm represents -- I am going to show the map.
02:06:14 Our law firm represents the 12 different entities,
02:06:19 corporations and family trusts that are in the colored area.
02:06:24 All of which abut the alley.
02:06:26 In addition, they actually own the other parcels that also
02:06:30 comprise this block, that don't affect the alley but are
02:06:33 part of the overall block.
02:06:35 And the corporations and family trusts, again they are
02:06:41 The trustee is Mr. Parido.
02:06:53 The family also owns this triangular block to the north,
02:06:57 which is -- on which has the Exchange, and one of the
02:07:08 reasons that they are requesting the vacating is because
02:07:11 this lot, which the alley backs up, serves as a parking lot
02:07:17 for the offices and for the restaurant.
02:07:20 And I don't know if you have been out there lately, but they
02:07:23 have done some significant improvement in that parking lot
02:07:26 area, and the purpose of the vacating is to facilitate the
02:07:29 circulation in that lot, allow them to improve the safety,
02:07:34 and also to maximize the number of parking spaces.
02:07:37 So some of the improvements this will facilitate the
02:07:55 circulation of that parking lot.
02:07:56 >> any questions by council members?
02:08:01 Are you finished?
02:08:02 Anyone in the audience care to speak on this item 75,
02:08:08 Any closing argument you would like to put on the record?
02:08:11 I have a motion to close by Mr. Reddick, seconded by Mr.
02:08:15 Further discussion by council members?
02:08:16 All in favor?
02:08:18 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:08:19 Mrs. Montelione, would you kindly read the ordinance,
02:08:28 Almost my age.
02:08:29 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you, Mr. Cohen.
02:08:34 I present an ordinance for first reading consideration, an
02:08:36 ordinance lying, closing, discontinuing and abandoning annal
02:08:42 will you way lying north of west Cleveland street, south of
02:08:45 grand Avenue, east of south Magnolia Avenue and west of
02:08:50 south cedar Avenue in plan of Washington's subdivision, a
02:08:54 subdivision in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County
02:08:56 Florida the same being more fully described in section
02:08:59 hereof subject to certain easement reservations, covenants,
02:09:04 conditions, and restrictions more particularly set forth
02:09:07 herein providing an effective date.
02:09:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a second by Mr. Cohen.
02:09:10 Further discussion by council members?
02:09:11 On first reading? All in favor of the motion?
02:09:16 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:09:16 >>THE CLERK: The second reading of the ordinance will be
02:09:20 held December 5th at 9:30 a.m.
02:09:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
02:09:32 >>GLORIA MOREDA: Land development.
02:09:33 The petition V-13-86, approval for request for AB sales,
02:09:42 restaurant, beer-wine, for consumption on premises only.
02:09:45 The property is located at 1003 west Hillsborough Avenue.
02:09:51 It is currently PD zones zoned.
02:09:54 The property currently does have alcoholic beverage sales
02:09:59 for a 2(COP-R) for the existing restaurant on property.
02:10:03 The proposal is to expand that restaurant to 2,106 square
02:10:09 feet inside area.
02:10:11 There is no outdoor sales area proposed.
02:10:14 The property has currently 22 off-street parking spaces.
02:10:18 The hours of sales proposed are from 11 a.m. on Sunday to
02:10:24 11 p.m. Monday through Wednesday, 7 a.m. to 11 p.m. Thursday
02:10:30 through Saturday, 7 a.m. to 1 a.m.
02:10:35 There are waivers of criteria including the distance
02:10:39 separation from 250 feet to 10 feet, residential use on the
02:10:47 They are asking for reduction of off-street parking spaces
02:10:50 from 26 spaces to 22, and they are asking to allow for the
02:10:55 maintenance of their access to park place, a local street.
02:11:12 The property on the north side of Hillsborough Avenue, the
02:11:15 light would be here.
02:11:22 It is an existing center.
02:11:28 It shows the placement on the property.
02:11:30 It is located on Park.
02:11:32 This is the view looking south on Park Avenue.
02:11:40 Probably the most important thing to note is that they are
02:11:42 directly adjacent on the south side to single-family
02:11:47 There is literally about 10 feet from the property line to
02:11:51 the proposed wet zoning location.
02:11:53 The existing shopping center is approximately 3800 square
02:11:58 feet in area and contains retail shop, a beauty salon and
02:12:02 the existing restaurant.
02:12:07 They are proposing the restaurant part to be 2,161 square
02:12:12 The site plan does indicate there's no sales proposed in the
02:12:15 outdoor area or in the parking and loading area, and no
02:12:20 outdoor amplified music after 11 p.m.
02:12:30 Land development coordination is maintaining that it's
02:12:31 inconsistent in the sense that they are asking for the
02:12:33 distance separation waivers as well as reduction of parking,
02:12:37 represents 18% reduction.
02:12:39 There are site plan revisions that are needed if council is
02:12:46 inclined to approve given to you now with the police report.
02:12:51 Transportation does express concern about the access to a
02:12:56 local street, and they are also indicating revisions are
02:13:00 needed for the site plan. Staff has no further comments.
02:13:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
02:13:11 Is the police department here?
02:13:23 No problem.
02:13:23 Anyone in the audience care to speak on this while we are
02:13:27 Item number 75.
02:13:38 I can only state what's here for the record.
02:13:44 Are you the police department?
02:13:46 >> No.
02:13:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I know you and I have the same barber but
02:13:50 that's about it.
02:14:00 I can read what the record says.
02:14:01 The police department does not have an objection to this
02:14:06 special request.
02:14:08 So let's continue, petitioner.
02:14:12 Are you going to speak on behalf of yourself?
02:14:14 (Speaking Spanish)
02:14:25 The police department on item number 75, the location at
02:14:33 1003 west Hillsborough Avenue.
02:14:36 Any comments, any objections by the police department?
02:14:40 >> Don Miller, City of Tampa police department, no
02:14:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
02:14:44 I know you were on duty there.
02:14:48 Speak English?
02:14:51 (Speaking Spanish)
02:15:06 (Speaking Spanish)
02:15:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What he wants to do is expand the
02:15:22 restaurant, continue selling beer and wine.
02:15:24 He already has a beer and wine license, from what I
02:15:28 Any questions by council members?
02:15:29 >>LISA MONTELIONE: It's kind of difficult to understand
02:15:40 what it is we are being asked to do.
02:15:44 It would be really helpful -- and this has happened before,
02:15:46 and I appreciate the chair acting as translator, but I think
02:15:52 maybe in cases like this when we have a non-english speaking
02:15:55 applicant that we have an advocate for --
02:16:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, let me get a volunteer.
02:16:03 Anyone in the audience volunteer to translate?
02:16:06 Come on up.
02:16:08 My translation is not good enough.
02:16:09 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I didn't say that.
02:16:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want a little action here.
02:16:16 >> My name is Ada Mujica.
02:16:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And you speak two languages?
02:16:24 >> Yes.
02:16:40 As he previously stated, he wants to make the restaurant
02:16:43 larger so that he can sell beer and wine.
02:16:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Give me the amount of space that he
02:16:50 >> 20 to 30 feet.
02:17:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: How many feet do you have now?
02:17:02 How many seats do you have?
02:17:11 >> He's right now at 38.
02:17:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And he wants to go to how many?
02:17:16 >> I'm sorry, he has 78.
02:17:30 I'm sorry, he wants to make it to 78.
02:17:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions by council members?
02:17:35 He wants to go from 38 to 78 for a 100% increase.
02:17:44 >> Ms. Moreda, this is noted.
02:17:45 Have we heard from the property owners?
02:17:47 Because staff was concerned about the waiver for the
02:17:52 distance to the residential property.
02:17:55 I think you stated in the rear?
02:17:57 And that it was only ten feet?
02:17:59 Is that an existing condition?
02:18:04 >>GLORIA MOREDA: It is an existing condition.
02:18:05 The existing alcohol approval on the tract was already
02:18:11 This is an expansion of that.
02:18:14 Yes, remember last meeting there was confusion as to what
02:18:17 the status of the notice that had been done.
02:18:20 The land development did send out letters to all property
02:18:23 owners within a radius.
02:18:26 Notice has been given to all those property owners.
02:18:29 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And we.
02:18:30 Heard from anyone?
02:18:31 Okay, thank you.
02:18:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me see if I upper.
02:18:37 This is right there to the north?
02:18:40 I'm going to speak in Spanish so you understand.
02:18:42 (Speaking Spanish)
02:18:43 I say when you come in you have a large area to the left,
02:18:51 very small, a few tables, and a fellow who sings -- I have
02:18:55 been there.
02:18:56 I'm just telling you.
02:18:57 I go everywhere.
02:19:13 Okay, any further testimony?
02:19:16 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I have a quick question.
02:19:19 You keep walking a wait a minute you can stay up here
02:19:22 It all right.
02:19:24 We are asked to reduce the parking from 26 to 22 and
02:19:29 increasing seating from 38 to 78, I think, or 36 to 78.
02:19:37 I guess it kind of begs the question --
02:19:41 >>GLORIA MOREDA: There is change of use in the sense that
02:19:45 capacity on the property and the required parking to the
02:19:48 center would be 26 parking spaces.
02:19:54 >>MIKE SUAREZ: So that doesn't effect it at all in terms of
02:19:56 the number of seats?
02:19:57 >> No.
02:20:01 It's a calculation.
02:20:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any further?
02:20:11 If he wants any rebuttal.
02:20:13 He's entitled to make a statement now that we discussed
02:20:15 (Speaking Spanish)
02:20:20 I have a motion to close by Mr. Reddick.
02:20:22 Seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
02:20:24 All in favor of the motion to close?
02:20:28 The ayes have it.
02:20:30 The hearing is closed.
02:20:33 Who wants to read this ordinance?
02:20:35 Member Suarez?
02:20:37 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I present an ordinance for first reading
02:20:39 consideration, an ordinance approving a special use permit
02:20:41 S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, restaurant, on premises
02:20:45 consumption only and making lawful the sale of beer and wine
02:20:48 at or from that certain lot, plot or tract of land located
02:20:51 at 1003 west Hillsborough Avenue, Tampa, Florida as more
02:20:56 particularly described in section 2, that all ordinances or
02:20:58 parts of ordinances in conflict are repealed providing an
02:21:01 effective date, and including the revision sheet as provided
02:21:06 by staff, the 13 ---V-13-86 on this date, November 21.
02:21:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a second by Mr. Cohen on a close
02:21:16 vote with Mr. Reddick.
02:21:17 Further discussion by council members?
02:21:19 All in favor?
02:21:21 Motion passes unanimously.
02:21:22 >>THE CLERK: The second reading of the ordinance will be --
02:21:31 December 5th at 9:30 a.m.
02:21:34 (Speaking Spanish)
02:21:41 We go to item number 77.
02:21:50 >>GLORIA MOREDA: Land development, V-3-116, 2205 west Swann
02:21:59 Avenue, for beer-wine on premises consumption as well as
02:22:06 package sales off premises.
02:22:08 There is no alcohol beverage permit on the property.
02:22:14 They have an indoor area of 1757 square feet, 970 square
02:22:20 feet, they are indicating that they will have 50 feet.
02:22:29 Currently their site plan shows 37 parking spaces.
02:22:35 Proposed hours from Monday through Thursday, 7 a.m. to
02:22:39 11 p.m., Friday, and through Saturday, 7 a.m. to midnight,
02:22:46 and Sunday, 11 a.m. to 11 p.m.
02:22:50 They are requesting distance separation of other alcoholic
02:22:55 beverage sales from 1,000 feet to 297 feet, reduction from
02:23:01 distance of institutional use, 1,000 fate to 537 feet, and
02:23:07 the reduction of the distance separation from residential
02:23:10 uses, 1,000 fate to 128 feet.
02:23:16 This property is currently zoned.
02:23:21 It is located on the north side of Swann Avenue, and I have
02:23:30 some pictures here of the property.
02:23:32 This is the view on the side.
02:23:33 Swann Avenue is right here.
02:23:35 And this is from the parking area where they also have an
02:23:39 entrance in the back.
02:23:42 Here is a view of the parking lot.
02:23:47 Swann Avenue.
02:23:52 And they are also at the corner of woodland.
02:23:56 Excuse me, Westland Avenue.
02:24:00 They currently have seats in their canopy area in the front.
02:24:05 They are also proposing it along the side, along the alley.
02:24:08 The property across the street is the new SoHo apartments.
02:24:19 This is an existing planned development district.
02:24:21 And the approved uses on the site plan included specialty
02:24:28 and retail.
02:24:29 It says 50 feet restaurant limited to beer and wine and
02:24:34 The property has not had the review for alcoholic beverage
02:24:38 The proposed request is consistent with the limitations and
02:24:43 the intensities allowed under the PD plan, and that is why
02:24:46 they are come before you.
02:24:49 They did show a site plan through the permitting when the
02:24:53 building was first built, showing 39 off-street parking
02:24:59 That was determined not to be a substantial change.
02:25:02 They also have submitted a site plan that's before you now,
02:25:08 37 parking spaces.
02:25:09 We believe that they can revise that site plan to show that
02:25:13 there will be 38 parking spaces on-site, the back row could
02:25:17 be reduced to compact as shown in the original PD.
02:25:21 And at that point they would be within the 20% reduction of
02:25:25 parking that is allowed to be determined not to be a
02:25:30 substantial change under their PD.
02:25:33 There are revisions to the site plan that are necessary,
02:25:36 that we have given to you.
02:25:38 The staff does find it inconsistent in the sense that they
02:25:41 are asking for all these distance separation whatever you
02:25:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Questions by council members?
02:25:52 Thank you very much.
02:25:52 Police department?
02:25:53 >> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police department.
02:25:57 We have no objection.
02:25:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
02:26:02 >> Justin Clark, owner of the business.
02:26:17 And I request a beer and wine lay sense, please.
02:26:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
02:26:26 And what is it you are going to do here?
02:26:30 >> We have a wood burning oven.
02:26:33 We are also a juice bar, coffee shop, smoothies, and want
02:26:40 beer and wine on premises.
02:26:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anything else?
02:26:45 Any questions by council members?
02:26:49 >>HARRY COHEN: So you are going to make pizza then, in the
02:26:53 >> Yes, sir.
02:26:53 >> So you want to serve beer and wine with the pizza?
02:26:57 >> Yes, sir.
02:27:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez?
02:27:03 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Am I correct, it says on premises and off
02:27:08 >> We have talked to the neighborhood and they want to take
02:27:11 the off premises off, and we are going to do that.
02:27:16 >>MIKE SUAREZ: That is going to be done between first and
02:27:19 second reading?
02:27:20 >> Yes, sir.
02:27:20 >> You are not sure.
02:27:22 I'm asking.
02:27:22 So let me ask Ms. Moreda or the attorney.
02:27:26 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
02:27:27 Yes, they will also have to make that additional change.
02:27:30 >> Was that change not asked for before?
02:27:34 >>REBECCA KERT: No.
02:27:41 They P when the ordinance is read, if it is read, then the
02:27:51 package sales on premises will be left out.
02:27:54 >> And I want to make sure we are straight on that.
02:27:58 Thank you.
02:28:01 >>GLORIA MOREDA: I was not aware of the change, too.
02:28:04 So the site plan would also need to be take all reference to
02:28:08 the package sales off.
02:28:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
02:28:16 Anything else?
02:28:16 Anyone in the audience care to speak on item 77, V-13-116?
02:28:22 I have a motion to close by Mr. Cohen.
02:28:24 Second by Mrs. Montelione.
02:28:27 Further comments by council members?
02:28:28 All in favor of the motion to close?
02:28:31 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:28:34 Mr. Reddick, would you kindly read item 77, see where it
02:28:37 goes, sir?
02:28:39 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
02:28:40 Move an ordinance being presented for first reading
02:28:42 consideration, an ordinance approving a special using permit
02:28:44 S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, small venue on premises
02:28:49 consumption and package sales, and --
02:28:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you can --
02:29:04 >>FRANK REDDICK: I'm leaving it off.
02:29:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's all he said.
02:29:12 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move an ordinance for first reading
02:29:14 consideration, an ordinance approving a special use permit
02:29:17 S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales small venue, on premises
02:29:21 consumption, and package sales and making lawful the sale of
02:29:25 beer and wine at or from that certain lot, plot or tract of
02:29:28 land located at 2205 West Swann Avenue, Tampa, Florida and
02:29:33 as more particularly described in section 2 that all
02:29:35 ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict are repealed,
02:29:38 providing an effective date.
02:29:39 Including the revision stated by staff.
02:29:42 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
02:29:43 I just want to clarify that the package sales also should be
02:29:46 left out.
02:29:47 You don't need to read it again.
02:29:49 I just want to make that clarification.
02:29:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
02:29:52 I have a motion as directed by legal department, whatever it
02:29:59 has to do to make it legal.
02:30:01 Motion by Mr. Reddick, seconded by Mr. Cohen.
02:30:03 Further discussion by council members?
02:30:05 All in favor of the motion?
02:30:07 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:30:10 When this comes back for second reading that will be left
02:30:12 off along with the revision sheet and the items that were
02:30:17 >>THE CLERK: That will be held December 5th, 9:30 a.m.
02:30:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
02:30:22 Item number 78.
02:30:23 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.
02:30:33 VAC 14-01 is to vacate an alley.
02:30:40 I have a map showing the location.
02:30:43 And the alley runs between Arch and LaSalle and from St.
02:30:50 Peter to Armenia Avenue.
02:30:54 All the owners shown in red have requested the vacating.
02:30:57 This owner cannot be located, I guess.
02:31:00 But the request by all the owners on the block except for
02:31:02 that one.
02:31:03 And the alley as shown in yellow. I have some photos.
02:31:07 The first is the alleyway looking east from saint petitioner
02:31:16 The next photo is alleyway looking east from Armenia Avenue.
02:31:20 And just some photos of the applicant's property looking
02:31:23 south on LaSalle, looking again south of LaSalle, and north
02:31:30 from arch.
02:31:32 And this is the abutting property that was not involved in
02:31:35 the vacation.
02:31:38 And the alley does continue on either side, and requesting
02:31:43 the vacating.
02:31:46 Staff has no objection to the request.
02:31:47 There is a request for a wastewater easement.
02:31:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Petitioner?
02:31:56 >> Ada Mujica representing block to close the alley.
02:32:08 Everybody did provide affidavits and everyone is in
02:32:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone in the audience care to speak on
02:32:14 this item, item number 78?
02:32:18 I see no one.
02:32:19 I have a motion to close by Mr. Cohen.
02:32:21 Second by Mr. Suarez.
02:32:22 Further discussion by council members?
02:32:23 All in favor of the motion to close please signify by saying
02:32:27 Opposed nay.
02:32:27 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:32:30 Ms. Mulhern, would you kindly take number 78, please?
02:32:33 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented for
02:32:37 first reading consideration, an ordinance vacating, closing,
02:32:39 discontinuing and abandoning an alleyway lying north of Arch
02:32:43 Street, south of LaSalle Street, east of St. Peter Avenue
02:32:48 and West of Armenia Avenue, in Bayamo subdivision a
02:32:53 subdivision in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County
02:32:56 Florida the same being more fully described in section 1
02:32:58 hereof subject to certain easements, reservations,
02:33:02 covenants, conditions and restrictions more particularly set
02:33:04 forth herein providing an effective date.
02:33:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seconded by Mr. Suarez.
02:33:10 All in favor of the motion?
02:33:13 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:33:14 >>THE CLERK: The second reading of the ordinance will be
02:33:16 held December 5th at 9:30 a.m.
02:33:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 79.
02:33:27 80 and 81.
02:33:29 Yes, ma'am.
02:33:29 >>JULIA MANDELL: Legal department.
02:33:31 I would request you open all three of these items and hear
02:33:35 them but you need to vote on them separately in the
02:33:38 sequential order in which they appear.
02:33:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I may.
02:33:43 They are all open already.
02:33:44 Let me say this.
02:33:45 Anyone who is going to speak on these last three items who
02:33:48 has not been sworn has to be sworn in.
02:33:51 I see some new people come in and I realize that.
02:34:08 (Oath administered by Clerk).
02:34:10 >>JULIA MANDELL: Prayer to getting into a specific
02:34:12 discussion about these three items which are related to each
02:34:15 other, I wanted to have a background discussion and also
02:34:20 discuss some procedural mat percent.
02:34:22 By way of background these three items come back before you
02:34:25 as a result of the denial of a previous rezoning.
02:34:29 In 2012, that was brought forward by St. Joseph Hospital for
02:34:33 the purposes of expanding their existing development and
02:34:37 creating additional surface parking on property that is
02:34:40 located the area bounded by St. Isabel, Lake Avenue, MacDill
02:34:48 and Gomez. That is an inclusion into their existing PD
02:34:52 which they have had several rezonings on over many years.
02:34:58 This came back to you as a result of the request by St.
02:35:01 Joseph Hospital as petitioner for that denied rezoning to
02:35:05 meet statutory mediation under 70.51, Florida statutes.
02:35:10 You have had several of these over the years so I won't get
02:35:13 into detail over what that process is.
02:35:15 But as you have seen in the past, what will happen if an
02:35:20 outpatient is denied it goes through a remediation process,
02:35:23 and what the legal department will do is bring back to you a
02:35:25 potential agreement which includes a variety of items, and
02:35:29 in this instance, there are three items come back to you as
02:35:33 a result of that mediation, and as a result of a potential
02:35:36 settlement of the dispute.
02:35:38 The first item is the first item on your agenda which is a
02:35:42 vacation of the right-of-way of Saint Isabel between
02:35:47 MacDill and Gomez.
02:35:49 The second is a revised rezoning application which is
02:35:52 inclusive of the property relating to that Saint Isabel,
02:35:57 which if vacated would be part of that property and part of
02:36:00 the PD which is owned and controlled by St. Joseph Hospital,
02:36:03 except for a small portion of it.
02:36:05 And the third item is development agreement pursuant to
02:36:08 Florida statute 163 which is also going to be reviewed
02:36:14 through a public hearing process.
02:36:20 The original application did not include vacation of
02:36:25 right-of-way or the development.
02:36:27 As stated in the previous hearing and as has been known to
02:36:30 me, Mr. Miranda, who is the chair of City Council, owns in
02:36:34 trust as I am aware property which is within the notice
02:36:37 area, so now it's part of the vacation. Right-of-way.
02:36:42 Mr. Miranda, as I know everybody is aware, as well as I have
02:36:45 been involved with several cases, and with St. Joseph
02:36:49 Hospital property in this location, has gone through
02:36:52 rezoning application, and has gone through a public hearing
02:36:55 process, and Mr. Miranda has had an opportunity and taken an
02:37:00 opportunity to vote on those instances, and I nor have any
02:37:05 of my predecessors, city attorney or assistant city
02:37:09 attorneys, ever had reason, or the thought that Mr. Miranda
02:37:12 would need to declare a voting conflict under which he would
02:37:15 no longer be able to vote on that matter.
02:37:18 However, given the fact that you now have a vacation of the
02:37:22 right-of-way, meaning the vacation of the right-of-way of
02:37:25 Saint Isabel, which there is evidence that is already placed
02:37:29 into the record by our city staff, as well as information
02:37:31 that may come into the record, as it relates total vacation
02:37:34 of Saint Isabel, which will show that there is going to be
02:37:38 potentially increased traffic upon lock Avenue that portion
02:37:42 of Lake Avenue which is directly abutting Mr. Miranda's
02:37:45 house, and given the state of the case law on this matter, I
02:37:50 cannot opine it is completely clear that Mr. Miranda would
02:37:54 eventually have a private gain or loss which would inure to
02:38:00 his benefit or detriment.
02:38:03 Therefore I have recommended and continue to recommend to
02:38:05 Mr. Miranda that as it relate to the vacation petition and
02:38:08 as it relate to the associated development agreement,
02:38:13 subpoena expressly conditioned upon the vacation petition,
02:38:15 that Mr. Miranda declare a voting conflict, and that he goes
02:38:20 ahead and signs those forms.
02:38:21 But I want to be very clear.
02:38:23 First of all, Mr. Miranda does own property as part of a
02:38:27 He's not individually an owner.
02:38:30 And this is very different given the set of circumstances
02:38:32 that I have described from other instances upon which Mr.
02:38:36 Miranda has voted.
02:38:38 It is the direct correlation of the vacation petition which
02:38:41 causes me to come forward with be this advice to Mr.
02:38:44 Miranda, and I have discussed with Mr. Miranda.
02:38:57 Shall I want to submit that for the record.
02:39:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There's two things I want to say first
02:39:01 before we go into this hearing.
02:39:03 First of all, Mrs. Capin is not here and she advised me when
02:39:07 we were breaking for lunch, because of a medical problem
02:39:10 that she has for a caregiver that she's giving care to, and
02:39:17 she has to do what she has to do, and I understand it
02:39:19 thoroughly why she's not here, and I hope -- it's a benefit
02:39:24 to someone else that has no one else to take that person for
02:39:28 medical treatment, and she's doing a great thing.
02:39:30 Secondly, what are my rights as a private citizen?
02:39:36 >> As a private citizen and owner of property within the
02:39:38 area, you certainly have the right as a private citizen to
02:39:42 speak on behalf of your property as any other resident who
02:39:48 receives notice or didn't receive notice through a public
02:39:50 hearing process has a right to speak as it relate to their
02:39:53 property, and present evidence and testimony as part of the
02:39:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
02:39:58 I believe I signed that already, gave it to the council
02:40:04 Am I correct?
02:40:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You formed 8-B stating that you live on a
02:40:10 parallel street one block south of the vacation.
02:40:12 This is for the vacation alone and I am filing that with the
02:40:15 clerk on your behalf.
02:40:16 >> Need a motion to receive and file.
02:40:18 Motion by Mr. Reddick.
02:40:19 Second by Mr. Suarez.
02:40:20 All in favor of the motion?
02:40:22 The ayes have it unanimously.
02:40:23 >>JULIA MANDELL: If I may make one more statement for the
02:40:31 We are now in a position where item 79, you have five
02:40:38 members who are going to have an opportunity to vote on that
02:40:44 For the purposes of the petitioner I should inform everybody
02:40:47 in the record that it would take four affirmative votes in
02:40:50 order to move forward with this petition.
02:40:52 With that application, should there be an affirmative vote.
02:40:56 Your rules provide that if you only have four members
02:40:59 available for a vote, and if the petitioner -- they should
02:41:04 have the right to receive a continuance as a matter of
02:41:08 That same right does not exist with five members.
02:41:10 However, given the set of circumstances with this coming as
02:41:14 a mediation process, and going forward from a previously
02:41:19 denied rezoning, I did want to state this for the record,
02:41:23 and an opportunity if they so desire make a request for a
02:41:28 continuance for City Council to consider given as it relate
02:41:31 to have vacation petition, there is only five members
02:41:33 available for voting.
02:41:34 You are under no obligation to consider or approve that
02:41:36 under your rules of procedure, but I think procedurally it
02:41:39 would be appropriate to deal with that now.
02:41:41 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilman Suarez.
02:41:44 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Where do we stand in terms of mediation in
02:41:49 relation to our role having to hear this a second time from
02:41:52 the previous decision in 2012?
02:41:57 >> The mediation process provides as it relate to the
02:42:00 vacation, as it relate to the development agreement that's
02:42:04 really a new public hearing.
02:42:05 The rezoning application isn't necessarily a new public
02:42:10 However, in this instance it's bringing in additional
02:42:13 So we are treating it as a new public hearing.
02:42:15 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I guess my point is, this is already a
02:42:22 mediated item.
02:42:23 Does that in any way inhibit us from the way we treat this
02:42:27 because of the mediation agreement or mediation parameters,
02:42:29 is there anything along those lines that we need to discuss?
02:42:35 >>JULIA MANDELL: The only thing I would state to you is by
02:42:37 filing this remediation process, it is a potential
02:42:42 prelitigation position.
02:42:44 >>MIKE SUAREZ: So the idea, it's gone through mediation.
02:42:49 If for some reason the decision does not go the way of the
02:42:52 petitioner, I guess there's more of a notice that, hey, we
02:42:58 are proposing for some other action if this is not granted?
02:43:02 >>JULIA MANDELL: It is that, plus because you go through
02:43:05 the mediation process, the mediator is in a second role,
02:43:10 which is an adjudicator of whether or not your decision was
02:43:16 unfair or unjust towards the real property.
02:43:22 That is the second portion of this mediation process.
02:43:25 We have not gotten there yet.
02:43:27 Typically you bring forward a settlement, a potential
02:43:30 If it's approved you're done.
02:43:32 If it's not approved you go into the second portion of this
02:43:36 hearing process.
02:43:36 The mediator's report does become part of the public
02:43:39 record -- I'm sorry, part of the record for any additional
02:43:42 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
02:43:45 If for some reason we deny the petition, any of the three
02:43:50 items, it would go to mediation, and they would use the
02:43:55 determination that we use when we have to look at a zoning.
02:43:59 Is that correct?
02:43:59 Meaning that if we follow our own rules concerning evidence
02:44:03 that was provided to us as competent, substantial evidence,
02:44:07 do they do that?
02:44:10 >>JULIA MANDELL: It is a rehearing of the decision for the
02:44:14 mediator makes a different determination, which is a special
02:44:19 magistrate at that point, in which he had the opportunity,
02:44:23 or she, depending on who it is, had the opportunity to
02:44:25 review the record, review any evidence that is presented for
02:44:29 them during an additional hearing process, and make a
02:44:33 determination as to whether or not City Council's decision
02:44:37 unfairly burden it is real property, and I have only once
02:44:45 had an opportunity to bring a case in that secondary portion
02:44:48 to you.
02:44:48 So in that instance we bifurcated them, and typically you
02:44:53 bifurcate them, so we.
02:44:55 Gotten to that second portion yet.
02:44:57 But if you were to deny one or any portion of this, it bow
02:45:00 would go back to the mediator sitting as a magistrate which
02:45:04 end up in a prelitigation process.
02:45:06 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Montelione.
02:45:10 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
02:45:12 When I read the mediator's letter, there's a paragraph on
02:45:20 the second page of the letter that addresses the vacation.
02:45:28 And Mr. Simon, if I am pronouncing that, Simeon, Simon, if I
02:45:36 am pronouncing it correctly, states that my view was that
02:45:41 the traffic I observed during my site visit indicated that
02:45:45 vacating the right-of-way would be improve the safety of the
02:45:48 proposed parking facility and provide an increased setback
02:45:53 between St. Joseph's improvements and the single-family
02:45:57 dwelling fronting on west Lake Avenue.
02:46:01 You and I discussed that previously.
02:46:05 And you mention the associated development agreement.
02:46:15 But in reading the development agreement, I didn't see
02:46:17 exactly where it stated the relationship between the setback
02:46:26 to the single-family and the vacation of the right-of-way as
02:46:29 it states in the mediator's letter.
02:46:34 >>JULIA MANDELL: If you are trying to get into the
02:46:35 substance, we are not quite there yet, because I want to
02:46:38 finish up all these procedural issues because I want to make
02:46:41 sure it's clear as part of this record, we are on the
02:46:44 proposal issues and not the substantive issues, I guess --
02:46:48 are you asking me that as a result of having some concern
02:46:51 about -- I guess I'm really not sure what you are asking me
02:46:55 because it's really not part of the procedural issue that I
02:46:58 was raising for the purposes of moving forward under
02:47:02 potential for continuance.
02:47:03 I do want to indicate, though, I just spoke with petitioner,
02:47:06 they don't want a continuance.
02:47:07 They are prepared to move forward.
02:47:09 So Pi guess Yuma little at a loss.
02:47:18 >>LISA MONTELIONE: If I could allow you to go forward with
02:47:22 the procedural issue, of potential continuance, has just
02:47:26 been resolved by the petitioner, so therefore in terms of
02:47:28 moving forward, it's ripe to move forward.
02:47:32 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Montelione, I will come to you
02:47:46 first when it's time.
02:47:47 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay.
02:47:49 Remember the question.
02:47:50 >>HARRY COHEN: Petitioner.
02:47:53 >> I'm Amy Boulris, Gunster Law Firm, 401 E. Jackson, and 2
02:47:58 S. Biscayne Boulevard in Miami.
02:48:02 I work out of both offices.
02:48:03 And I'm counsel for St. Joseph Hospital and the other
02:48:09 entities that are the applicant here.
02:48:10 For the record, we are asking Councilman Miranda to recuse
02:48:23 They are a bundle that would create.
02:48:29 To the extent that he has a conflict on any part of it, he
02:48:33 has a conflict in our view on all of it.
02:48:36 If he has that conflict of interest because of his home --
02:48:39 and the statutes that we are relying on and trying to abide
02:48:46 by ourselves is Florida statute 112.31-43 subparagraph 3-A
02:48:53 which provides that no local government officers shall vote
02:48:56 on any measure which would inure to his or her special
02:49:00 private gain or loss.
02:49:07 You when this was last before council September 17th,
02:49:11 there counsel for the council, Mr. Shelby, and the city
02:49:17 attorney to confer whether there was a conflict here, they
02:49:22 concluded there wasn't, and chair Miranda did declare on the
02:49:24 record that he was impartial at the beginning of that
02:49:28 However, what is concerning to the hospital is later in that
02:49:32 hearing he discussed the impact on value to the adjacent
02:49:35 homes, including his own, at page 363 of that record, which
02:49:40 by the wait I have put into the record with the clerk today.
02:49:43 All of the proceedings, the notices of public notice of the
02:49:50 proceedings as well as today's hearing, that includes a
02:49:52 transcript of the January 17th hearing.
02:49:55 And so it was his statement where he observed there would be
02:49:59 an impact to the value of his home.
02:50:02 His statement was, I'm going to live where I'm at no matter
02:50:07 what, and if my value was zero I would be happy because I
02:50:09 would pay no taxes.
02:50:11 And this is on the heels of discussing his views that the
02:50:15 hospital has worn down the neighborhood.
02:50:17 So in light of what accommodations the hospital is now
02:50:21 proposing as part of the mediated proposal, we don't pretend
02:50:27 to nobody whether it would be a gain to those homeowners
02:50:31 because of the things you hear about that we are doing along
02:50:33 the south edge of the hospital to buffer them and improve
02:50:37 the aesthetics, or whether it would be a loss, but there is
02:50:42 an objective standard here that if there could be either a
02:50:44 gain or loss to someone with adjacent property, that's
02:50:49 special enough under the opinions interpreting this law in
02:50:52 our view to create a mandatory recusal.
02:50:58 So just for the record -- and I'm making this objection now
02:51:02 instead of on each item, so we don't slow down the
02:51:06 So with the permission of the city attorney, I would like it
02:51:10 to be a standing objection for the record, that the hospital
02:51:13 believes to avoid any appearance of impropriety by any party
02:51:17 that he should not vote on any of these three items.
02:51:20 Thank you for allowing me that record objection.
02:51:22 >>JULIA MANDELL: I understand that there is any standing
02:51:34 objection as part of the record.
02:51:35 She certainly has that right.
02:51:36 As I previously indicated my position on the issue of
02:51:40 whether or not Mr. Miranda had previously had a vote related
02:51:46 to the rezoning and whether or not he has a right in this
02:51:49 instance, not withstanding her objection appropriately
02:51:51 placed in the record.
02:51:53 And I think I need to be clear because I might have maybe
02:51:55 confused the issue as I was talking it through.
02:51:57 When I was talking about how we would handle my description
02:52:01 of this entire matter, I wanted to be able to talk about all
02:52:06 of them together, and I still intend to describe how they
02:52:09 all work together.
02:52:10 But each hearing will be heard independently, meaning as we
02:52:14 do in all the instances, the vacation, petitioner heard,
02:52:18 then the rezoning petition heard, then the development
02:52:20 agreement heard.
02:52:21 But in terms of the context of it, since they came out of
02:52:24 mediation, I was trying to make it very clear how the
02:52:26 context was all together so that they would all -- they'll
02:52:30 be voted on separately.
02:52:38 You have Suarez.
02:52:40 >>MIKE SUAREZ: My question of the petitioner attorney was
02:52:43 speaking of all three if she would like chair Miranda to
02:52:46 recuse himself from those decisions.
02:52:48 Now, that is not what you said to us in your earlier
02:52:50 statement, correct?
02:52:52 >>JULIA MANDELL: What I said is I advised Mr. Miranda
02:52:54 that -- I would prefer to take a moment to answer that
02:53:03 What I stated on the record is relating to what I said on
02:53:05 the record, and really asking me to go into --
02:53:11 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here is my question about it.
02:53:13 We as council do not have the authority to make someone not
02:53:17 vote on it, on a particular issue, correct?
02:53:21 >> Absolutely.
02:53:22 Can I ask to take a step back and maybe clarify the record?
02:53:27 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Sure.
02:53:29 Since we are all individually duly elected and we all know
02:53:32 the rules concerning land use and what the state statutes
02:53:36 can say, it's a unique experience for all of us.
02:53:39 And I want to make sure that I know that there's no problem
02:53:44 for us to not vote on it.
02:53:47 That decision is going to be made by himself or by any of
02:53:49 the legality in the state statute.
02:53:51 I just wanted to make sure that we understood that, and that
02:53:54 we don't have a role in determining whether or not chair
02:53:59 Miranda votes or does not vote on this issue.
02:54:01 >>JULIA MANDELL: That's correct.
02:54:03 And I do feel that we have kind of gone on this topic, I
02:54:07 need to make an additional statement for the record.
02:54:09 You have two issues that have been put as part of the record
02:54:12 as it relates to voting conflict.
02:54:14 One is whether or not there's a statutory prohibition
02:54:17 against voting.
02:54:19 And the other is whether or not under any set of
02:54:24 circumstances, in a quasi-judicial matter, should vote
02:54:28 because there's an appearance of bias.
02:54:31 Those are two separate reviews and two separate standards.
02:54:37 But in any event, to answer your question again, Mr. Suarez,
02:54:40 making it very clear for the record, that is an individual
02:54:43 decision for each member.
02:54:45 It is not something that the body as a whole can be involved
02:54:49 with, with that decision-making process.
02:54:52 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Just one last clarification.
02:54:56 An appearance of bias means what?
02:54:58 An appearance can mean a lot of different things in terms of
02:55:00 state statute what does that many?
02:55:02 >> What state statute obligates every member of every
02:55:07 legislative and he have appointed or public body, you are
02:55:10 obligated to vote on every matter that comes before you
02:55:14 unless there is a voting conflict.
02:55:17 And that's been described to you and that is the language
02:55:23 that I described at the beginning of this conversation.
02:55:25 The second part of the issue is when you are sitting in a
02:55:29 quasi-judicial matter, you or any other body, there's an
02:55:35 obligation under Florida law, not Florida statute, but also
02:55:40 under Florida law, that you as a property owner petitioner
02:55:43 have a right to tribunal, meaning as judges, or as
02:55:47 quasi-judicial judges, as it were, you have to be fair and
02:55:53 If an individual member has an interest in some type of
02:55:57 matter come before you, that would allow them not to be fair
02:56:02 and impartial, you don't have a true voting conflict that
02:56:06 would prohibit you from voting, what you have is a
02:56:10 possibility that you have an appearance of bias that would
02:56:13 undermine the decision, and that is again an individual
02:56:17 decision by each member as to whether or not -- how you want
02:56:23 to handle that after consultation with the city attorney, or
02:56:26 county attorney, in any event, whoever you have these
02:56:30 conversations with, but ultimately it's your decision how
02:56:33 you want to proceed forward after that advice.
02:56:35 >>HARRY COHEN: Petitioner.
02:56:44 >> I want to add that our objection applies jointly or
02:56:48 severely to these items.
02:56:49 We believe jointly taken together as a bundle, and they are
02:56:52 so interrelated, that there is a statutory voting conflict,
02:56:56 or severely, we think on each one of them viewed
02:56:59 independently there's a statutory voting conflict.
02:57:03 And again everyone be above reproach on that objective,
02:57:09 inure a special gain or loss standard of the statute, ware
02:57:12 recommending that a voting conflict be recognized by chair
02:57:16 Miranda under that objective standard, and also the
02:57:23 practical quasi-judicial aspect of this, that you can say
02:57:29 interrelated bundle, it arguably inappropriate to act as
02:57:35 both witness and judge in the same central proceeding.
02:57:40 I don't know whether Mr. Miranda intends to speak.
02:57:43 But given his question about what are his rights as a
02:57:46 private citizen, that may be true in a vacuum, but here
02:57:50 today on these bundled items, these interrelated items, we
02:57:53 would be very concerned about acting as both witness and
02:57:56 judge on the same essential matter.
02:57:58 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Ma'am, if I could.
02:58:03 I think that you may have misstated it.
02:58:06 He is not witness and judge.
02:58:07 He lives in a place in which there is development next to
02:58:10 He is not a witness to anything.
02:58:14 Nothing brought forward in order to testify.
02:58:16 He is also serving as elected official.
02:58:18 Let me continue.
02:58:19 The reason why saying something like that, I think that's
02:58:22 much more prejudicial to us because we all live within the
02:58:25 city limits, and there is always going to be an appearance
02:58:28 of conflict no matter where we live.
02:58:30 I mean, we look at these zoning laws all the time.
02:58:33 And there are impacts that are made on our lives based on
02:58:37 where we are at.
02:58:37 So I think that you are overstating what you just said.
02:58:40 And I want to put this on the record for my own benefit,
02:58:42 because you are talking about balancing the rights he has as
02:58:46 a private citizen versus his responsibility as chair and as
02:58:50 a council member.
02:58:51 And please, if you could, be a little clearer on that when
02:58:54 you do present that.
02:58:54 I understand what your legal argument is.
02:58:56 But I think you have to be a little fairer in terms of the
02:58:59 way we are as a council, and as we are when we deal with
02:59:02 land use issues.
02:59:03 So I just want to put that on the record because I think
02:59:06 it's important that you don't characterize us as both
02:59:12 witnesses and judges when it's a quasi-judicial proceedings.
02:59:15 We have an obligation to state law and to city ordinance,
02:59:18 and have an obligation as property owners, so it's a little
02:59:23 It's not a witness-and-judge type of decision.
02:59:26 So I just want to clarify that.
02:59:28 >> I am not here to legally argue but on the record --
02:59:32 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I understand.
02:59:33 I need to put that also on the record because that's a
02:59:36 characterization that I think takes it extra-legal and not
02:59:40 in legal context.
02:59:41 >> In our legal position for the record, if he speaks on the
02:59:44 item as a citizen, he is giving testimony that could be
02:59:47 considered on review as evidence, and in our view that would
02:59:51 be functioning as a giver in the same proceeding where he
02:59:55 would sit as a voting judge, and that's highly problematic
02:59:59 in our view.
03:00:00 And as far as --
03:00:02 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay, I think we have got it.
03:00:05 >>HARRY COHEN: I have Mr. Reddick and Mr. Shelby and Ms.
03:00:09 Let me let everyone have a shot here.
03:00:11 >>FRANK REDDICK: Well, my questions are along the same
03:00:14 lines as Mr. Suarez, and Mrs. Mandell clarified it.
03:00:23 The petitioner said to us that one member of this body steps
03:00:30 down and says I am going into a private citizen role, that
03:00:36 he doesn't have the right to speak on an issue?
03:00:39 >>JULIA MANDELL: Legal department.
03:00:43 I appreciate she has a right to make a record.
03:00:47 I completely disagree.
03:00:48 I think once Mr. Miranda is no longer sitting in the
03:00:51 capacity of council member and he is speaking as a property
03:00:53 owner that he has a right to speak as it relates to his
03:00:56 property as any other person who is speaking as it relates
03:00:58 to that matter.
03:00:59 She is making her record, which she has the right to do, and
03:01:02 I was about to get up and make that statement as well.
03:01:05 So in terms of that particular issue, I don't -- don't agree
03:01:09 with her position and I feel comfortable that Mr. Miranda
03:01:11 has a right to speak as a private citizen as it relates to a
03:01:14 matter which -- and to give evidence and testimony as it
03:01:17 relates to a matter than he's declared a conflict that he is
03:01:21 not sitting up on the dais to be involved as part of the
03:01:25 deliberation and will be speaking in a manner consistent
03:01:28 with have been the way other people who want to present
03:01:30 evidence and testimony to you as part of any public hearing.
03:01:35 So that's my position on that issue and I am comfortable
03:01:38 with moving forward with that.
03:01:39 The only other thing I did want to add is that Mr. Sierra,
03:01:44 an attorney representing some of the neighborhood groups,
03:01:47 want to put a procedural objection on the record and given
03:01:49 the fact that we are in a highly legal proceeding, I would
03:01:52 think that would be appropriate.
03:01:53 >>FRANK REDDICK: Well, thank you.
03:01:57 I was concerned when the petitioner made those comments,
03:02:00 and, you know, we are all sitting up here and want to be
03:02:06 fair and impartial.
03:02:10 But to hear some of the comments that you made, where you
03:02:15 want to deny a citizen the right to speak --
03:02:18 >> I am probably doing a poor job.
03:02:20 We don't object to him speaking under citizen.
03:02:22 I don't disagree with that at all.
03:02:24 >>FRANK REDDICK: That's not what you said.
03:02:27 >> I said we object to him speaking as a citizen, and then
03:02:31 also voting on related items, doing both that we object to.
03:02:35 But we do not object to his first amendment right to speak
03:02:38 as a citizen if that's what he chooses to do. We honor his
03:02:43 right to do that.
03:02:44 He is a property owner.
03:02:45 And he needs to speak if he needs to speak.
03:02:48 So I'm clarifying my position to the extent I didn't do a
03:02:52 very good job the first time around.
03:02:54 What I am trying to say is it's the doing both.
03:02:58 It's speaking as a citizen, providing evidence on a matter,
03:03:01 and then going back, possibly going back up to chair and
03:03:05 voting on related items.
03:03:07 That's our objection for the record.
03:03:08 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right, thank you.
03:03:10 >>HARRY COHEN: Mrs. Mulhern has a question.
03:03:12 And then we'll hear from the other attorney as well.
03:03:15 >>MARY MULHERN: I think she clarified my question.
03:03:21 Do we know if Chairman Miranda is going to -- planning to
03:03:25 vote on the other two issues?
03:03:27 >>JULIA MANDELL: Again, Julie Mandell.
03:03:39 All we know right now is Mr. Miranda has declared a voting
03:03:42 conflict and has submitted the appropriate documentation as
03:03:44 it relates to the vacation.
03:03:48 >>HARRY COHEN: And it's my understanding that it's up to
03:03:50 him as to what he will do.
03:03:51 Mr. Shelby.
03:03:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, Mr. Chairman, thank you.
03:03:57 I just wanted to add two things briefly.
03:04:02 Number one is with regard to the voting conflict issue.
03:04:07 Please be advised that the discussion as to whether Mr.
03:04:12 Miranda votes is to be determined by Mr. Miranda.
03:04:24 As you stated he has indicated that he will be abstaining
03:04:28 from voting on the vacation petition.
03:04:31 With regard to what the petitioner's attorney has put on the
03:04:35 record with regard to a standing objection, which is
03:04:39 necessary as a matter of law, and protect our client's
03:04:44 interest, I would ask that you not look at Mr. Miranda's
03:04:51 abstaining as having any effect or any weight on the
03:04:54 evidence that you hear, if Mr. Miranda chooses to
03:04:58 participate, he will be required just as anybody else to
03:05:00 provide competent substantial evidence in support of his
03:05:03 position, and the council, I would advise you, to give
03:05:09 respect to the attorney's position for the basis of making
03:05:12 the record, but not create any bias or give any greater
03:05:20 weight to the fact that she chose to do that, and needs to
03:05:24 be do that for the record.
03:05:26 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to move the meeting along.
03:05:28 >>HARRY COHEN: Mr. Sierra.
03:05:32 >> Michael Sierra, attorney with offices at 703 West Swann
03:05:37 Avenue here in Tampa, have the pleasure here today of
03:05:40 representing the immediate neighbors and the neighborhood.
03:05:43 In objection to this petition.
03:05:45 My procedural objection or my procedural request would be
03:05:48 that this is a very, very important issue.
03:05:52 I have been involved in this since the 80s through the
03:05:54 various petitions.
03:05:55 You can see how contentious it is.
03:05:58 You can see the effort that's being put forth.
03:06:01 I think this issue is worthy of a full council.
03:06:04 I think in light of the fact that at least one member of
03:06:07 this council has been disqualified by the petitioner, the
03:06:10 rest of us in the neighborhood are entitled to have the full
03:06:14 council, all six left without the chairman, to hear this
03:06:17 very important issue.
03:06:19 And for that reason, I request that you continue this until
03:06:23 such time as all six remaining members of this council can
03:06:26 participate, hear all the evidence, and be fully informed so
03:06:30 that we'll have a vote from the full council that will be
03:06:33 left after they disqualified the one.
03:06:36 Thank you very much.
03:06:36 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you very much.
03:06:38 Ms. Mandell?
03:06:42 Just refresh our memory as to what the rules are in terms of
03:06:45 our ability to grant a continuance in this matter.
03:06:47 >>JULIA MANDELL: If you have four members and there's a
03:06:52 request for continuance, you understood your rules will
03:06:54 grant that continuance if four votes are needed but that's
03:06:59 typically a right of the petitioner, not a third party,
03:07:02 although you have granted them to third parties as well
03:07:04 because you need four votes for denial.
03:07:07 As long as you have five members who are able to vote and
03:07:10 are in position to vote, it is completely within your
03:07:12 discretion as to whether or not you want to grant that
03:07:15 continuance, keeping in mind that if it were the petitioner,
03:07:20 that your right to grant that continuance and the obligation
03:07:24 is somewhat different than third parties, but frankly I have
03:07:27 seen council do it both ways.
03:07:30 >>HARRY COHEN: We do have the discretion to grant the
03:07:33 continuance when asked for by a third party?
03:07:36 >>JULIA MANDELL: You have the discretion to consider it,
03:07:38 but I would request that you grant the position of the
03:07:43 petitioner who has the right to have their case heard.
03:07:47 Since you have a third party --
03:07:49 >>HARRY COHEN: What their response is to the neighborhoods'
03:07:53 >> The hospital applicant prefers to go forward.
03:08:05 We are open to continued discussions with the neighborhood
03:08:09 We welcome the opportunity to do that between first and
03:08:12 second reading.
03:08:14 They fully participated, and if there are still remaining
03:08:19 concerns we would like to consider it between first and
03:08:22 second reading, and we would like to be go forward.
03:08:32 >> Okay Mr. Suarez?
03:08:36 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Ms. Mandell.
03:08:48 Ms. Mandell?
03:08:49 A question.
03:08:51 We have been put into a rock and hard place position.
03:08:54 Petitioner is asking us to go forward.
03:08:56 We have only -- we only have our four members here
03:09:01 In terms of Mrs. Montelione might be back.
03:09:06 I'm not sure.
03:09:06 We have our five members.
03:09:12 Are they -- let me rephrase that.
03:09:14 If we deny the applicant today, in all or part, and we have
03:09:21 this mediation process that has been -- that was begun, does
03:09:27 that give them extra legal ammunition in terms of going
03:09:30 forward, or less, or does it really matter?
03:09:34 Because obviously we are in a position where I think this
03:09:39 went down 4-3 if I am not mistaken -- I can't remember.
03:09:44 I don't know how many people voted against it.
03:09:46 I know I was one.
03:09:47 >> In terms of the request to continue that was made by the
03:09:53 adjoining property owners if you choose to go forward
03:09:56 especially now that the petitioner requested that you go
03:09:59 forward, I don't believe that creates any additional
03:10:01 liability on our part for going forward. In fact, I would
03:10:04 probably recommend giving -- the petitioner made this
03:10:09 request that we go ahead and move forward because there's no
03:10:13 due process reason not to.
03:10:14 So the only other thing I should remained you is of the
03:10:18 three petitions in front of you.
03:10:19 The only one that was previously in front of you was the
03:10:22 rezoning and may be different.
03:10:25 So the fact that you might have had a 5-2, I believe is what
03:10:29 it was, vote previous case, that was on a rezoning
03:10:34 That rezoning application is going to look differently in
03:10:37 addition to two other applications.
03:10:39 >> Thank you.
03:10:42 >>HARRY COHEN: Well, my sense of the measure of the council
03:10:44 is to move forward, and as a result, I think we should get
03:10:47 underway with item number 79.
03:10:54 >>JULIA MANDELL: Legal department.
03:10:56 Now that we are done with the procedural discussion, I
03:10:58 wanted to describe to you a little bit how we got here
03:11:04 substantively and then proceed forward with the individual
03:11:09 As I indicated, this went through a mediation process as
03:11:12 part of that process.
03:11:15 We chose a mediator, and you received his report who also
03:11:21 happens to be a planner and a lawyer, who reviewed the case.
03:11:24 We did hold a formal mediation session where we did have Mr.
03:11:30 Sierra representing some of the adjoining neighbors on Lake
03:11:35 Avenue attend that meeting.
03:11:37 It was noted members of the public it is required to be
03:11:40 under the statute.
03:11:41 At that public -- I don't want to call at public hearing.
03:11:45 It was more of a public mediation, I'll call it.
03:11:48 There was an opportunity for participation on the part of
03:11:49 the neighbors as well as on the part of the city and the
03:11:52 hospital folks.
03:11:54 When we were looking at the entire plan, and what they had
03:11:57 gone forward to with and what they were trying to identify
03:12:01 as the issue, the mediator, as a result of conversations
03:12:05 made a suggestion of a couple of things, one, that we should
03:12:11 look at whether or not Saint Isabel should be -- it want to
03:12:16 make clear that did come as a result of the mediator, and
03:12:19 that may answer Mrs. Montelione's questions just a little
03:12:22 bit, and I will continue to hopefully try to answer that
03:12:25 The second part that you think was really important is that
03:12:28 the folks from the neighborhood also made statements to the
03:12:32 mediator, I think what they asked for is they wanted to have
03:12:42 a 100 foot buffer off of the north side of Lake to the south
03:12:46 side of Lake and the properties to the south side of Lake.
03:12:49 And that was really what their position was.
03:12:52 In addition, there were comments made during the mediation
03:12:54 about there's an existing 50-foot buffer that sort of has
03:12:58 this linear park, and we'll talk about that a little more
03:13:04 because they have pretty pictures and know way to be -- how
03:13:07 to use them way better than I do, and whether linear park
03:13:11 had been properly maintained.
03:13:13 So with those conversations in mind, we went into what
03:13:17 happens a lot of time in mediations, you go into breakout
03:13:21 session, and what we came back to as a result of this
03:13:25 mediation was two things.
03:13:27 One, increasing the buffer off of Lake.
03:13:31 There was a 50-foot portion of it, and to be see if there
03:13:37 was a way to increase that buffer, and a way to increase the
03:13:41 way that linear park was being maintained, and to look at
03:13:44 the vacation of St. Isabel.
03:13:47 And it really did become part of the entire campus
03:13:53 When Mrs. Montelione asked me that previous question, where
03:13:56 are we in the development agreement the idea that this was
03:14:01 so thoroughly tied in, it was tied in in the sense that
03:14:04 other than it being an express condition of the development
03:14:07 agreement, the idea that an increase of the buffer off of
03:14:11 Lake and moving the opportunity for St. Joseph to have any
03:14:15 kind of vertical construction within 70 feet of Lake Avenue,
03:14:20 which they would have some opportunity to do, under their
03:14:22 current zoning of the property without even the PD, and the
03:14:31 vacation of Saint Isabel and the opportunity to move the
03:14:34 buildings either closer to Saint Isabel, or at some point
03:14:39 the buildings on Saint Isabel, vacated right-of-way, and it
03:14:42 would be their property and they could check on it. It was
03:14:44 something that they were interested in talking about in
03:14:48 terms of moving that buffer line off of Lake.
03:15:03 >>LISA MONTELIONE: You and I had a briefing.
So I understand about -- I think what you are about to show.
My question was where in the development agreement does it
Because what I have attached as part of maybe we didn't
discuss the entire thing but I'm looking at only -- well,
no, here it is.
So the development agreement, when I read through it, and
also the addendum to the development agreement that was, I
think, provided as exhibit B, to the development agreement,
I didn't see expressly where it fell -- here, isn't it?
I didn't see exactly where it stated.
I see the 20 feet.
Vertical construction setback covenants.
Upon issuance of building permits for the development
depicted in the modified site plan, the hospital shall
execute and report building setback covenant in the form
attached as D, providing vertical construction within 70
feet of the southern property line of the added open space
area, and within 20 feet of the northern property line of
the linear park as depicted on the modified site plan.
Did I miss where it talks about the wall?
03:16:48 >> There's an obligation on the associated site plan which
03:16:51 is attached.
03:16:52 That shows where there's going to be a wall at the 50-foot
03:17:00 linear park, where the linear park ends and St. Joseph
03:17:06 property ends.
03:17:07 It's also shown in the buffer area, exhibit C, in which it
03:17:10 shows within that area that there's going to be landscaping
03:17:13 and a wall and, says proposed concrete wall and then it
03:17:19 shows where there's going to be landscape and it shows
03:17:22 that -- I think it's on -- it might be on the actual site
03:17:32 plan itself where there's an area upon which there could be
03:17:36 zero light bleed from -- has to be zero foot-candles at that
03:17:43 >> Where?
03:17:44 >> I believe it's on the site plan.
03:17:46 The site plan with this is very small and it's hard to read.
03:17:50 That would be appropriate to ask those questions.
03:17:52 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well --
03:17:54 >> Because I can't read this.
03:17:55 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So you want me to wait on that?
03:17:57 >> Yeah, because I was really just trying to give you an
03:18:00 overview --
03:18:01 >>LISA MONTELIONE: That was my question.
03:18:02 I specifically wanted to know where in the development
03:18:04 agreement --
03:18:06 >> When we get to the zoning portion of this, I would ask
03:18:08 that you ask that question to staff -- terms of all when --
03:18:15 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Wait, wait.
03:18:16 I guess that's why I, I read from the mediator's letter,
03:18:27 because to me, inextricably tied, because he even
03:18:32 references -- if I can get back to his letter.
03:18:35 Trying to flip between where he says -- all right.
03:18:44 Somebody help me out with the letter.
03:18:46 I need sticky notes to separate the pages.
03:18:51 He says that the vacating of the right-of-way would improve
03:19:05 the safety of the proposed parking facility and provide
03:19:10 increased setback between St. Joseph's improvement and the
03:19:15 single-family dwellings fronting on West Lake Avenue.
03:19:18 He's saying that in that paragraph, the way I'm reading it,
03:19:21 literally, that the vacating would provide an increase
03:19:27 setback between St. Joseph's and the single-family dwellings
03:19:33 on Lake.
03:19:34 >> He isn't here, so I can only just characterize what I
03:19:37 think he meant.
03:19:38 What I think he meant was the context of the mediation and
03:19:40 how we got to the point of having a discussion about the
03:19:45 vacation of the right-of-way came as a result of the request
03:19:47 of the neighbors to have an increased buffer off of Lake and
03:19:51 to increase how far they could have vertical construction
03:19:51 onto Lake because as it stood at the very moment in time we
03:19:51 got to the mediation, there was no vertical construction
03:19:51 being requested -- there was some concern on the part of the
03:20:15 neighbors in the future that that could occur.
03:20:19 If we can vacate St. Isabel, then we can --
03:20:24 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Basically what he's saying is it was a
03:20:26 horse trade.
03:20:27 You give him the vacation and you'll get the extra buffer.
03:20:32 You'll get the setback.
03:20:34 You'll get all these other things.
03:20:36 >> I'm not comfortable characterizing what Mr. Siemon was
03:20:39 thinking when he put in that letter.
03:20:42 Is it true that vacating of St. Isabel and the idea of
03:20:46 getting the increased buffer are tied together?
03:20:48 They were tied together as part of that conversation.
03:20:51 >>LISA MONTELIONE: That's what I'm getting at, thank you.
03:20:56 >>HARRY COHEN: Okay, let's move on to the actual item
03:20:58 >> Thank you very much.
03:20:59 I would request we go ahead and take up 79.
03:21:03 >>HARRY COHEN: Staff.
03:21:03 Thank you.
03:21:03 Barbara Lynch, Land Development Coordination.
03:21:07 The application number is VAC 14-202, request by St.
03:21:13 Joseph's Hospital to vacate part of St. Isabel between
03:21:18 MacDill and Gomez.
03:21:20 That's a map showing the location.
03:21:21 The St. Joseph's Hospital owns property in red the street to
03:21:25 be vacated is outlined in yellow and runs from MacDill to
03:21:29 Gomez and lies north of LakeLake and south of Virginia and
03:21:32 It's an improved street.
03:21:35 And here are some photos.
03:21:37 This is San Isabel street looking east from MacDill Avenue.
03:21:43 This is San Isabel street looking west from Gomez.
03:21:50 Pretty long street, so I took a mid block shot.
03:21:52 This is San Isabel looking east towards Gomez at the center
03:21:57 of the block.
03:21:58 And then I have applicant's property.
03:22:00 This is on the south side of San Isabel.
03:22:04 And again, on the south side of St. Isabel.
03:22:10 This is at the southeast corner of St. Isabel and MacDill
03:22:15 And then their property on the north, corner of MacDill
03:22:20 and St. Isabel.
03:22:21 And about mid block, north side, and then this property does
03:22:26 not belong to St. Joe's.
03:22:28 And they exit off of Gomez.
03:22:30 It's just a corner.
03:22:31 Staff has no objection to this request.
03:22:34 There are easements required by all utilities except
03:22:37 You have any questions?
03:22:40 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilmember Mulhern?
03:22:41 >>MARY MULHERN: The last one you just showed us that's not
03:22:43 owned by St. Joseph's, do they also have access on
03:22:49 St. Isabel?
03:22:50 >> I didn't see it.
03:22:52 Looks like they come off Gomez.
03:22:57 >>MARY MULHERN: But I wondered if they have another
03:22:59 >> I don't have a shot but I didn't see it when I was out in
03:23:01 the field.
03:23:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Do you have an overhead, where we could
03:23:08 maybe see?
03:23:10 >> Here it is again.
03:23:11 You could see there's no drive in to that property from
03:23:14 St. Isabel.
03:23:16 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
03:23:19 >> Any other questions?
03:23:21 >>HARRY COHEN: Questions from Councilmembers?
03:23:28 >> Good afternoon, Abbye Feeley Land Development
03:23:31 Item 72, I believe is the rezoning.
03:23:37 >> 79 is what we're on now, which is the vacation.
03:23:41 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I'm going to talk about the rezoning.
03:23:43 >>HARRY COHEN: Well, since all our lawyers have just extend
03:23:45 out of the room even though I asked them specifically not
03:23:48 I will --
03:23:51 >> Ms. Mandell asked me if I would now come up and present
03:23:54 what differences are based on the vacating being included in
03:23:57 the rezoning.
03:24:00 >> If it is Council's pleasure, we can go ahead and finish
03:24:04 up the vacation petition and then get into the rezoning.
03:24:06 Whatever Council's pleasure is.
03:24:09 >>HARRY COHEN: These items sometimes come up this way.
03:24:12 We have the same situation just the other night.
03:24:14 I think we should take them one at a time.
03:24:17 That way it will be much easier for us.
03:24:21 >> I understand.
03:24:31 >>HARRY COHEN: Petitioner?
03:24:32 >> Good afternoon again.
03:24:33 As Ms. Mandell explained in response to Ms. Montelione's
03:24:39 question, the vacation petition is an element of the overall
03:24:45 So, I'm going to give a brief overview and ask Mr. Larocca
03:24:50 to come up and show you the state plan and how the vacation
03:24:53 works within the site plan and the basis for the request.
03:24:55 As Ms. Mandell indicated, after the denial of the underlying
03:25:01 PD rezoning application, the hospital decided it did not
03:25:06 want to litigate.
03:25:07 It preferred first instead to avail itself of a statutory
03:25:11 dispute resolution process in the hope of, number one, first
03:25:16 and foremost, reallies England to the concerns of the
03:25:20 neighbors and the city staff in a forum where there could be
03:25:24 facilitated conversation by an expert like Mr. Siemon, who
03:25:28 is nationally recognized in these land use issues.
03:25:31 And problem solve.
03:25:33 Or attempt to problem solve.
03:25:35 So the hospital's preference, strong preference was never to
03:25:40 find itself in the litigation position.
03:25:41 And that's still true as I stand here today.
03:25:43 That would be a matter of ultimate last resort.
03:25:48 And I'm happy to report to you that from the hospital's
03:25:50 perspective and apparently the city staff and the special
03:25:54 master's perspective, that problem solving session known as
03:25:57 a, we call the act Florida Land Use Dispute Resolution Act.
03:26:03 We call it FLUDRA for short.
03:26:09 During the FLUDRA proceedings, the party began to understand
03:26:11 that while there is a policy in the comp plan specific to
03:26:15 this very land we're talking about, that promotes the
03:26:19 hospital's growth as a regional medical center and allows
03:26:22 infill in this area for medical office and medical
03:26:25 office-related uses, I know there's a literal word in the
03:26:30 policy that says office.
03:26:31 But by code definition parking is accessory use to office.
03:26:34 And yet there were neighbors nearby with a concern about how
03:26:38 the buffering would work.
03:26:40 And so there was some really productive conversation.
03:26:44 Mr. Sierra attended the first session and explained what the
03:26:48 neighbors' concerns were and the hospital made good faith
03:26:53 effort to try to meet those concerns.
03:26:54 As Ms. Mandell says, the neighbors wanted a hundred foot
03:26:58 The hospital couldn't agree to that much of a buffer, but
03:27:01 agreed to effectively a 70-foot buffer that has two
03:27:07 One is an extension of the existing linear park owned by the
03:27:11 city to extend that as a Greenway through an additional open
03:27:16 space, subject to a covenant running with the land, which
03:27:20 means it's permanent.
03:27:23 The covenant provides that there shall be no vertical
03:27:27 construction within 70 feet of west Lake.
03:27:30 So it's additional 20 feet from the already public linear
03:27:36 And 70 feet from what would be the private boundary line
03:27:39 between the added open space and west Lake.
03:27:42 Mr. Larocca will show you the site plan in a moment.
03:27:45 So, to facilitate the hospital effectively agreeing not to
03:27:51 go vertical within 70 feet of west Lake, the special master
03:27:55 recommended and he initiated to recommend vacation of
03:27:59 St. Isabel for a number of reasons.
03:28:01 First and foremost, for pedestrian safety.
03:28:04 To make that street closed and make the campus more
03:28:08 campus-like, will promote safety of the employees and the
03:28:12 patients that will be crossing that street and already do
03:28:15 cross that street.
03:28:15 The second reason was, if the hospital had that area in the
03:28:20 heart of its campus available to it, it is more likely that
03:28:23 any future growth of the hospital can stay away from the
03:28:28 And the parking lot can at least in the near term be a
03:28:34 transitional away and keep buildings away from the
03:28:38 So, there's no immediate plans to go vertical in that area
03:28:43 parking lot and there's now a permanent, prefer of a
03:28:46 permanent commitment not to ever go vertical within 70 feet.
03:28:50 And that was not anything required by code.
03:28:52 So the vacation became something initiated by the special
03:28:55 master to facilitate that hospital making accommodations in
03:29:00 terms of a voluntary 70-foot no construction vertical
03:29:05 construction setback which is not anything imposed by code.
03:29:09 And in addition to approve the aesthetics of that buffer
03:29:13 area, to continue the wall and Ms. Montelione, it is
03:29:18 required by the development agreement by virtue of appearing
03:29:20 on the site plan, but the hospital's willing to make it even
03:29:24 more expressed in the body of the agreement in the text.
03:29:26 We're happy to do that.
03:29:29 >>LISA MONTELIONE: That's kind of what I was getting at.
03:29:31 Was that -- it may be on the site plan.
03:29:34 But if some provisions are explicitly stated and called out
03:29:40 in the development agreement, I think they should all be
03:29:42 explicitly called out.
03:29:44 >> We thought it was hand by the site plan.
03:29:47 But we can make it more clear.
03:29:48 Our intention is to do it and do it with real commitment.
03:29:52 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
03:29:53 >> So extend the wall.
03:29:53 And also to undertake to install landscaping in both the
03:29:58 linear park area and the private open space area that will
03:30:02 be uniform, to extend the sidewalk and then to put the
03:30:06 entire green buffer area, which is the buffer area combines
03:30:11 the publicly owned linear park and the private open space
03:30:15 area to perpetually maintain it and put it on the landscape
03:30:19 maintenance plan for the whole hospital campus.
03:30:22 So it continually has a better appearance.
03:30:24 So to facilitate those accommodations requested of the
03:30:29 hospital, the special master said it makes sense to vacate
03:30:34 that segment of St. Isabel for safety reasons and also to
03:30:38 allow the hospital campus to grow more at its core and try
03:30:43 to keep buildings as much as possible and as much as
03:30:46 practical away from west Lake.
03:30:48 That was the logic.
03:30:50 And therefore, to be procedurally appropriate, the, under
03:30:55 the FLUDRA act, settlements that are of course city staff
03:31:00 can't agree to a settlement.
03:31:01 That's only up to you.
03:31:02 They can only commit to recommend.
03:31:04 And staff is here today recommending approval of all three
03:31:07 of these items to you because they would basically
03:31:10 holistically recommend a settlement.
03:31:13 And so, the vacation petition is a separate item, merely so
03:31:20 that we could observe all the technical procedural
03:31:22 requirements of your code for any vacation and take it
03:31:26 through two public readings and the appropriate notice.
03:31:29 But it is actually an integral part of the settlement and
03:31:34 that's why the department development agreement is also
03:31:36 drafted to be contingent upon approval of the vacating
03:31:40 petition and the PD.
03:31:41 In other words, the applicant commits to the development
03:31:44 agreement only if those other things are approved.
03:31:46 And so with that introduction of why they're intertwined and
03:31:52 we hope that it's a result of a good faith effort at problem
03:31:55 solving, really listening to the neighbors and accommodating
03:31:59 that we're bringing this forward.
03:32:01 We thought that this covenant was satisfactory to the
03:32:07 Their representative did come to the first FLUDRA session
03:32:10 and asked for that setback.
03:32:13 We told them that day we couldn't do a hundred, but we could
03:32:16 do 70 and that seemed to assuage -- I've been told just
03:32:20 within the last day that they preferred it to be in the form
03:32:24 of a dedication instead of a covenant.
03:32:27 That is something that my client representatives today don't
03:32:32 have authority to do.
03:32:34 In terms of handing over title to the property, they would
03:32:37 need to talk to the hospital board about that.
03:32:40 But suffice to say, for today's purposes, that the
03:32:43 hospital's commit and their intent is to be permanently
03:32:47 committed to putting no vertical construction in that
03:32:49 70-foot area, if the Council sees fit to pass this on first
03:32:55 reading, this bundle of items on first reading, whether it's
03:32:58 in the form of a covenant or a dedication is something we'd
03:33:01 be pleased to talk to the neighbors about between readings
03:33:04 and report back to you.
03:33:05 The covenant forum was brought forward at the second
03:33:10 mediation session.
03:33:12 Mr. Sierra was notified of that session but was not able to
03:33:16 After that mediation session, an invitation went out in both
03:33:21 English and Spanish for the neighbors.
03:33:24 He received certified mail notice of that.
03:33:27 We only learned yesterday that there is an objection to it
03:33:31 being in the form of a covenant instead of a dedication.
03:33:35 You know, that form over substance issue is something we'd
03:33:37 like to talk through with the neighbors between readings.
03:33:39 But Mr. Larocca if you'd come forward and go over the
03:33:43 vacation and how it relates to the site, I think it would
03:33:46 give a visual to what I've just said.
03:33:48 Thank you.
03:33:50 >> Good afternoon, Council.
03:33:55 As you know, I'm John Larocca, urban plan were Murray
03:33:59 Larocca consulting.
03:34:02 I've been an agent and planning advisor to St. Joseph's
03:34:05 Hospital and St. Joseph's women's hospital, the applicant.
03:34:08 David is going -- and I think all of you have the site plan
03:34:12 in your file.
03:34:12 David's put up a poster board with the full size site plan
03:34:16 that is, has been submitted to the city, which I believe do
03:34:19 you have in your files.
03:34:21 But for the -- for purposes of those in the audience on TV
03:34:26 and Council, I'm going to put on the overhead projector a
03:34:30 reduced size of that site plan.
03:34:31 The image that you see on the board and on the overhead
03:34:39 projector, north is to the left side only for ills stiff
03:34:49 purposes, just to know illustrative purposes.
03:34:54 Doctor MLK Boulevard is to the left.
03:34:57 North is on its side to help everybody see the plan.
03:35:02 With that said, we are on the portion of this hearing
03:35:09 related to the vacating request.
03:35:10 And again, I'm the planner and representing some of the
03:35:13 planning components here.
03:35:14 But from the vacating perspective, as has been described by
03:35:19 staff and by Ms. Boulris, attorney for the applicant, the
03:35:26 site plan depicts a vacated St. Isabel as a result of the
03:35:31 mediated process.
03:35:32 What you're looking before you, and I'm going to use the
03:35:36 overhead to point.
03:35:43 >> If you could bring that down a little bit.
03:35:45 So we could zoom in.
03:35:48 For the benefit of those watching at home.
03:35:52 >> What I'll try to do is focus on that portion -- the
03:35:56 northern part of the facilities really aren't -- even though
03:36:02 it's all part of one large zoning lot, the north side
03:36:05 doesn't show any alterations.
03:36:07 But the area that is highlighted and the center of the image
03:36:12 on the overhead at this point -- if everybody can see that
03:36:16 -- St. Isabel between Gomez and MacDill, it's a 60-foot
03:36:22 right-of-way, that was, is being proposed to be vacated with
03:36:28 a very specific vacating petition, as a result of the
03:36:31 mediation process.
03:36:33 The vacating of this right-of-way, property on both sides of
03:36:36 the street are owned by the applicant, or entities of the
03:36:40 applicant, except for two pieces of property.
03:36:43 That's a city sanitary sewer lift station at the northeast
03:36:47 corner of St. Isabel and MacDill that has access currently
03:36:53 to both rights-of-way.
03:36:55 There is a privately-owned medical office building use at
03:37:00 the northwest corner of Gomez and St. Isabel that has no
03:37:06 access to answer I believe Ms., either Mulhern's question
03:37:11 There's no access of that facility to St. Isabel.
03:37:17 It's all through Gomez.
03:37:18 The right-of-way to be vacated is a result of this as
03:37:22 indicated by Ms. Boulris earlier, was to accommodate an
03:37:29 expanded buffer area to the west of the existing linear park
03:37:33 that is a 50-foot dimensioned open space buffer between
03:37:37 LakeLake and what is now the current south property line of
03:37:41 the property owned by the applicant south of St. Isabel.
03:37:44 I'm speaking of the site plan, but it's all again a part of
03:37:48 this vacating request.
03:37:49 And we'll talk about this again when we get into the zoning
03:37:54 The area where the cross-hatch or dotted blue area is the
03:37:57 area that has been addressed as being the additional buffer
03:38:00 area as an extension of the buffer area that exists as the
03:38:05 publicly dedicated linear park to the east.
03:38:09 That area would coincide with the dimensions to the east,
03:38:16 mimmick what is to the east and obviously be recorded and
03:38:19 reserved as a buffer area in the form as described by the
03:38:24 This site plan and the additional buffer area as described
03:38:30 earlier is in the form of a restrictive covenant.
03:38:34 Staff will address that later.
03:38:35 That was a request of staff rather than illustrating that on
03:38:39 the site plan and it was felt it would run with the land and
03:38:43 not subject to any potential future changes in the land use.
03:38:47 The site plan that you have before you and that I'm pointing
03:38:51 at here on the overhead depicts the area shaded in green,
03:38:55 that would be the landscaped areas, the buffer areas,
03:38:57 etcetera, to accommodate what is a surface parking lot.
03:39:01 And there's no proposal in this application, either through
03:39:05 the mediated process to vacating and or the zoning to
03:39:09 propose any vertical construction south of St. Isabel.
03:39:14 That sums up the site plan as it relates to the vacating of
03:39:18 St. Isabel.
03:39:19 Obviously, it's a site plan that also is included as a part
03:39:23 after development agreement and is the site plan that is
03:39:25 being utilized as it relates to the rezoning discussion that
03:39:29 will occur later.
03:39:30 I'll be glad to answer any general questions about how this
03:39:34 plan has been laid out, but if there's other questions
03:39:38 regarding the vacating, I'm sure others on our team will be
03:39:42 able to answer that, or staff.
03:39:44 Thank you.
03:39:45 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you very much.
03:39:45 Are there any questions or comments from Councilmembers at
03:39:47 this time?
03:39:48 Councilwoman Mulhern?
03:39:50 >>MARY MULHERN: So, all of this was part of the whole
03:39:54 mediation process coming up with this site plan, right?
03:39:57 >> The site plan was revised to reflect the discussion as a
03:40:00 result of the mediated process.
03:40:02 >>MARY MULHERN: So were the -- when the proposal to vacate
03:40:07 St. Isabel, were the owners of the property on the northwest
03:40:17 side of St. Isabel part of that discussion?
03:40:19 >> They're not applicants, but they were notified.
03:40:21 I don't know if they're here today.
03:40:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
03:40:24 I just want to know if they have anything to say about it.
03:40:29 I guess we'll see if they're here.
03:40:32 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Montelione.
03:40:34 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
03:40:36 >> I will leave this board, should there be any questions or
03:40:38 at the down for now.
03:40:40 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
03:40:41 Ms. Mandell?
03:40:47 Was this -- well, was this re-noticed after the mediation?
03:41:04 >>JULIA MANDELL: Yes.
03:41:05 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Did we receive any comments or has anyone
03:41:07 from the medical office building that is shown on the site
03:41:13 plan, the northeast corner there of St. Isabel and north
03:41:20 >>JULIA MANDELL: I do not know if staff received any
03:41:23 correspondence from them.
03:41:24 I did not.
03:41:32 >> I didn't receive any comments -- nobody called.
03:41:35 Usually if a sign goes up or notices go out, we'll hear from
03:41:38 people if they have problems with the vacating.
03:41:42 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Right.
03:41:43 And because it seems they will benefit somewhat from the
03:41:51 vacation should this actually happen, because they'll
03:41:53 receive that portion of the alley -- of the street, the
03:41:58 right-of-way, will go to them.
03:42:01 So I was wondering if they had weighed in on this subject at
03:42:06 And directly on St. Isabel, they'd be the ones directly
03:42:12 affected, so I was wondering if we had heard anything from
03:42:20 That's all I have.
03:42:22 Looking -- well, was just looking at the site plan here.
03:42:28 And we have got a five foot sidewalk that's on the site
03:42:37 And set on both sides of the street it looks like at one
03:42:42 point it goes to eight foot and then narrows back down to
03:42:46 five foot again.
03:42:47 And I just bring that up because in my other role as the
03:42:54 chair of the livable roadways committee, we often talk about
03:43:01 why there are sidewalks for pedestrian use and the
03:43:06 accommodation of especially -- this is a hospital -- those
03:43:14 with disabilities who will be navigating the sidewalk and
03:43:18 having wider sidewalks is always better for individuals who
03:43:24 may be walking with someone who is in a wheelchair or with
03:43:27 the use of a walker, and so that's I think the only two
03:43:34 comments I had.
03:43:35 >> Just so I'm tracking with you, because I want to be sure
03:43:38 I understand.
03:43:39 Which sidewalk?
03:43:40 >>LISA MONTELIONE: The sidewalks that are shown on either
03:43:42 side of the portion of St. Isabel that is to be vacated.
03:43:47 The sidewalk starts at north MacDill and continues up to --
03:43:55 and meets the proposed 30-foot drive entrance, just to the
03:44:01 west of that property that's not affected.
03:44:04 And the sidewalk does not continue on the private property
03:44:07 then, that will inure to that property owner.
03:44:16 >> I think it's not shown on the site plan because if the
03:44:19 vacation is approved, the hospital doesn't own that.
03:44:21 >>LISA MONTELIONE: No, no, I know it's not.
03:44:23 I'm just saying that my, my concern -- my stated concern is
03:44:27 that the sidewalk is only five feet wide.
03:44:30 >> So you'd prefer it to be wider.
03:44:32 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Always.
03:44:33 Always prefer wider evacuation.
03:44:34 Mr. Hayes smiling at me because he's a member of the
03:44:38 >> We appreciate that comment.
03:44:39 And I'm sure it's being heard.
03:44:43 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I saw him shaking his head and kind of
03:44:46 rolling his eyes.
03:44:47 [ Laughter ]
03:44:48 >> Our next witness is Mr. Steven Henry, who is a traffic
03:44:51 engineer, who also did some studies.
03:44:53 >>HARRY COHEN: Before we get to that, though, I have
03:44:57 Councilman Suarez if I could.
03:45:01 >>MIKE SUAREZ: You made a comment what the special
03:45:04 magistrate had said, specifically about the vacation.
03:45:06 You said that the vacation would be advantageous because it
03:45:11 would allow the hospital to grow more at its core away from
03:45:14 west Lake.
03:45:15 And I'm kind of paraphrasing what you said.
03:45:18 But you used the word core and you used it away from west
03:45:23 What did he mean by that?
03:45:25 In terms of -- maybe I'm asking it in the wrong way.
03:45:28 Which is, what plans are part of the core of St. Joe's in
03:45:34 terms of that particular statement?
03:45:36 >> Let me clarify.
03:45:37 That was his statement, not the hospital's, but he was
03:45:39 looking at it as planner --
03:45:42 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Excuse me just a second.
03:45:43 The reason I'm asking you because you made the statement as
03:45:45 an example of something that was advantageous to this
03:45:49 So, it's your statement based on what you agree with on his
03:45:54 characterization, I assume.
03:45:56 >> We do agree first of all that buffering the neighborhood
03:46:01 by setting back is something the hospital would like to be
03:46:04 able to do.
03:46:05 But they lose important land mass in doing that.
03:46:08 The vacation allows them to recapture that land mass and
03:46:12 have it available to the campus for whatever purpose,
03:46:16 whether it's a safe crossing, a sense of a campus feel.
03:46:20 And if the hospital needs to grow in the unforeseen future
03:46:25 because even the client reps I have here can't bind their
03:46:28 future hospital boards.
03:46:29 There's more flexibilities afforded by the vacation to the
03:46:33 hospital to arrange their land use without having to
03:46:37 accommodate a road through the middle.
03:46:39 They'll simply have more flexibility in planning for any
03:46:43 needed growth in the future of the hospital by having that
03:46:46 land available.
03:46:47 By having that land available further away from Lake, it
03:46:50 opens up more possibilities to keep development away from
03:46:55 >>MIKE SUAREZ: So I guess what you're saying, and I don't
03:46:57 want to put words in your mouth.
03:46:59 I just want to clarify it in my own head, which is that when
03:47:03 you agree with the statement about it being the core,
03:47:05 there's no plan at all to do anything other than what you
03:47:08 have here now.
03:47:10 >> To my knowledge, there is no plan other than what's in
03:47:13 front of the Council now.
03:47:14 To my knowledge.
03:47:16 The only thing they're asking for is a parking lot.
03:47:18 They're not asking for any additional beds.
03:47:20 I think the special master was talking in terms of very,
03:47:24 very long-term.
03:47:25 Having that land mass in the middle of the campus would in a
03:47:30 way compensate the hospital for the loss of land mass at the
03:47:33 southern end.
03:47:34 That it would be devoted -- it would make it easier for the
03:47:38 hospital to devote land mass at the southern end as a buffer
03:47:41 in perpetuity because they'd be gaining land mass in the
03:47:46 middle of the campus.
03:47:47 All they're trying to say.
03:47:49 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Another question in terms of the covenant,
03:47:51 which is set out in section D, I believe, of the development
03:47:56 agreement, it says that there would be no vertical
03:48:00 construction within 70 feet of that -- I mean 70 feet away
03:48:05 from that buffer -- it's not 70 feet from the northern line
03:48:09 of it.
03:48:10 It is 70 feet from the southern-most line, which is the
03:48:15 street itself.
03:48:16 >> Yes.
03:48:16 It would be uniformly 70 feet from west Lake.
03:48:20 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Because you're picking up the extra 20 on the
03:48:22 added green space and you already have 70 on the other side.
03:48:25 But if it's 75 feet out, sure, we can put up, put something
03:48:30 else up.
03:48:30 You can get zoning for it some other time and be able to do
03:48:34 I'm just asking as a legal matter in terms of the covenant
03:48:38 itself, if that were the case and if this hospital wanted to
03:48:41 come back and say we want to build a building here and it is
03:48:45 five feet away from that particular line, they could do it.
03:48:48 >> The covenant serves to commit to no development within
03:48:52 that 70 feet.
03:48:54 But, it does not -- and city staff and we agree, does not
03:48:59 create a right to develop up to that line.
03:49:01 In fact, city staff -- we showed the line on the site plan
03:49:06 just to, for illustrative purposes.
03:49:11 Staff asked us to take it off because they didn't want the
03:49:14 covenant interpreted as an automatic right to build up to
03:49:17 that line.
03:49:17 And the hospital does not --
03:49:20 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I think my question was it was five feet off
03:49:23 that line.
03:49:24 I was trying to get away from that as right on the line.
03:49:27 The idea is, in my mind, based on what you've said, what
03:49:30 I've been able to read and part of our discussion right now,
03:49:34 which is, yes, you could go 75 feet out or 80 feet out.
03:49:38 We can make it ten feet.
03:49:39 Doesn't really matter.
03:49:40 From that particular line, and build vertical if you wanted
03:49:43 to zone it later on and build a ten story building.
03:49:47 >> By this proffered covenant, the hospital would commit
03:49:50 never to even seek development within that 70 feet from west
03:49:55 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I understand that.
03:49:55 >> Any other development, whether it's five, ten, 20,
03:49:58 50 feet away on this campus would be subject of its own
03:50:02 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Right.
03:50:02 That's exactly what I was saying.
03:50:04 Which is, you can't build at that line, but you can build it
03:50:07 five feet, two feet, whatever, within that particular zoning
03:50:12 request would be at that time.
03:50:14 >> Yes.
03:50:15 There's no significance to this covenant line other than
03:50:20 what cannot happen towards West Lake side of it.
03:50:24 That's the only significance.
03:50:25 It has no other significance and grants no presumptive
03:50:29 rights in terms of what could happen on the other side of
03:50:33 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
03:50:34 >>HARRY COHEN: Let me just say, the clerk has been stopping
03:50:37 the clock whenever you've been taking and answering
03:50:40 But there are only 53 seconds left.
03:50:42 So, we ought to go ahead and finish the presentation and
03:50:46 then we can get to the other portion.
03:50:48 >> We'll see how quickly he can speak, thank you.
03:50:54 >> I'll talk fast.
03:50:56 Good afternoon, Steve Henry, Lincks and Associates, 5023
03:50:59 West Laurel, Tampa, 33607.
03:51:02 Talk to you about two things.
03:51:06 One is the traffic and also the pedestrian circulation for
03:51:10 the hospital with the vacation.
03:51:11 As indicated by Mr. Larocca, parking on the south side of
03:51:19 St. Isabel, looking at about, put 391 spaces on the south
03:51:27 side of St. Isabel.
03:51:28 That's for both employees and for visitors.
03:51:30 The idea by vacating is that that provides a safer path from
03:51:34 those 391 spaces to the hospital from that standpoint.
03:51:39 Want to talk about traffic real quick.
03:51:41 We did conduct analysis to evaluate the impact of vacating
03:51:44 this portion of the St. Isabel.
03:51:47 Show you some graphics.
03:51:55 >>HARRY COHEN: We're going to let you go ahead.
03:51:57 I think this is an important point.
03:51:59 So we'll finish it up and then move on.
03:52:01 >> The first thing we did, we went out and did a.m. and p.m.
03:52:05 peak hour counts at all the project driveways and all the
03:52:09 intersections immediately adjacent to the subject property
03:52:13 and also St. Isabel to get a feel for where traffic is
03:52:17 coming from and where they're going to.
03:52:18 That's this graphic and the blue dots represent the exact
03:52:22 We have actually got the volumes on there.
03:52:25 I'm not going to go through all those.
03:52:27 Second thing we did, we went out and did machine counts.
03:52:32 These are left out there for 24 hours, during an entire
03:52:34 week, to look at what the daily traffic is on the segment of
03:52:39 As you can see, the blue dots, the general location of the
03:52:44 machine counts.
03:52:45 And on the segment of St. Isabel, we have got about 1100
03:52:50 >>HARRY COHEN: This is not on our screen.
03:52:52 If there's a way that it can be -- thank you very much.
03:52:58 >> So the blue dots represent the daily traffic.
03:53:01 I can walk through those, but what we did was looked at
03:53:05 And then we also did a license plate survey to even look
03:53:08 even further at where people are coming from and where
03:53:11 they're going to.
03:53:11 In the next graphic here, what I've done is kind of
03:53:17 highlighted, highlighted the grid network out there today.
03:53:22 And then also in blue, indicated the location of the
03:53:28 vacation of segment of St. Isabel.
03:53:31 Based on our determination looking at the redistribution of
03:53:34 traffic with that vacation, none of the volumes on the
03:53:38 adjoining streets would exceed what would be acceptable
03:53:41 level of service for whether it's a residential street, or a
03:53:45 local collector or an arterial roadway.
03:53:48 So we don't believe it will affect or increase the traffic
03:53:52 beyond what could be expected or is acceptable levels on
03:53:56 those roadways.
03:53:58 >>HARRY COHEN: Mr. Reddick?
03:53:59 >>FRANK REDDICK: Let me just make this clear.
03:54:01 You're saying by vacating the street, Isabel, there's not
03:54:08 going to be an increase of through traffic and other parts
03:54:12 of that area?
03:54:13 >> No, no.
03:54:14 What I said was, the redistributions of that traffic --
03:54:19 absolutely will be a redistribution of that traffic.
03:54:21 Has though go somewhere.
03:54:22 But that redistribution of that traffic and the increase on
03:54:25 those adjoining roadways would not exceed a level of service
03:54:29 or a volume that is appropriate for those types of roadways.
03:54:35 >>FRANK REDDICK: But the volume will increase though?
03:54:38 >> Absolutely.
03:54:38 Certainly the traffic has to go somewhere.
03:54:40 And yes, it will.
03:54:42 But the volume and redistribution that would not exceed what
03:54:45 you might expect or -- won't say adopted, but the general
03:54:50 level of service for volume on those kinds of streets.
03:54:53 >>FRANK REDDICK: Would you agree that that volume would be
03:54:55 an increase into the residential community?
03:55:01 >> Yes, there would be an increase on LakeLake Street,
03:55:04 increase in traffic.
03:55:05 Would not this typically on a residential street, 1500 cars
03:55:08 per day is probably the limit to what you'd want to see
03:55:12 We don't anticipate that that traffic on LakeLake Street
03:55:15 would near that volume.
03:55:17 Yes, would there be an increase, yes.
03:55:21 >>FRANK REDDICK: When you have increase, there's likelihood
03:55:23 you're also going to have those who are exceeding the speed
03:55:26 limit in the residential neighborhood, is that correct?
03:55:29 >> I can't speak to, whether they would speed.
03:55:32 I can speak to the fact there would be an increase.
03:55:35 >>FRANK REDDICK: If you have ten cars traveling one
03:55:37 neighborhood, all ten people who are driving those
03:55:41 automobiles is not going to stay within the speed limit.
03:55:43 And that's just logic, sense.
03:55:47 If it's 30-mile-per-hour zone in a residential community,
03:55:52 you're going to see somebody going 45 or 50.
03:55:55 I mean, that just common logic there.
03:55:59 That is going to happen.
03:56:00 And this is in a residential community.
03:56:02 >> Sure.
03:56:03 >>FRANK REDDICK: I want to ask the petitioner a question
03:56:04 pertaining to your traffic analysis.
03:56:06 If I can ask the petitioner.
03:56:09 You're the petitioner, right?
03:56:14 >> Okay.
03:56:16 >>FRANK REDDICK: You the traffic guy.
03:56:18 >> Yes.
03:56:21 >>FRANK REDDICK: This is a question that you a as the
03:56:26 petitioner probably needs to respond to.
03:56:28 Let me just ask the question.
03:56:33 Based on what I just heard, that yes, it's going to be a
03:56:38 volume increase, most likely in the residential community,
03:56:42 and yes, most residential communities there's a speed limit.
03:56:50 What are you willing to do where that's going to build a
03:56:56 volume increase, what are you willing to do as the
03:56:59 petitioner to protect the safety and security of those
03:57:02 people that live in the residential community?
03:57:06 Are you willing to admit to finding ways to provide traffic
03:57:12 calming or some type of traffic device that will make sure
03:57:17 that those cars are not speeding through a residential
03:57:21 >> Certainly a suggestion I can take to the hospital.
03:57:24 And report back on second reading, should you pass it on
03:57:27 first reading today.
03:57:28 It's a suggestion that's something that we can certainly
03:57:31 talk about.
03:57:32 Some sort of traffic calming on that street.
03:57:35 I think what Mr. Henry is testifying to is, we don't deny
03:57:40 that there will have to a redistribution of trips and we
03:57:43 don't know exactly know how many or where they'll go.
03:57:46 It looks like the entrances to the hospital will now be on
03:57:51 So it may draw more to MacDill.
03:57:53 But we certainly don't deny that it could potentially
03:57:55 increase traffic on west Lake.
03:57:57 And if the Council is interested in our considering traffic
03:58:02 calming commitments, it's something the hospital can
03:58:04 consider between readings.
03:58:05 Frankly, that's an idea that hadn't come up before.
03:58:08 It has some logic and we'd like to consider it.
03:58:12 >>FRANK REDDICK: Well, if this passes today, I'm going to
03:58:17 say to you now, if I don't see anything that reference some
03:58:24 type of traffic calming or devices or anything to help those
03:58:31 people that live in the residential community, then I will
03:58:37 not be favorable moving forward in the second reading.
03:58:40 >> Of course those are city streets.
03:58:43 So the hospital would need the collaboration of the city.
03:58:46 >>FRANK REDDICK: I'm pretty sure there's no problem.
03:58:48 >> That would be something we'd be glad to discuss with
03:58:50 It's an idea that hadn't been brought up but it's something
03:58:53 we can discuss.
03:58:55 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you.
03:58:55 Mr. Suarez, then Ms. Montelione.
03:58:57 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mr. Henry, the graphic that you had up
03:58:59 earlier, could you put it back up there?
03:59:01 I just need to ask you a question about what was there.
03:59:04 I'm looking at the number that urban flood advisory there
03:59:06 and it looks like it says 1106 between MacDill and Gomez.
03:59:11 Is that, is that a number of trips per day on St. Isabel
03:59:18 Is that what that is?
03:59:19 >> Yes.
03:59:20 You put a hose across the road.
03:59:21 That's the number going east and west on St. Isabel per day.
03:59:28 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And then the number below that on West Lake
03:59:29 between MacDill and Gomez, you have 342, is the same
03:59:32 corresponding number for those type of trips.
03:59:35 So in your experience as a traffic expert -- I guess you're
03:59:38 a traffic engineer is the best way of putting it.
03:59:41 >> Yes.
03:59:42 >>MIKE SUAREZ: As a traffic engineer, when a space is lost
03:59:47 in terms of accessibility, something that's cut off, you're
03:59:52 no longer able to do it, for lots of different reasons,
03:59:55 whatever it may be.
03:59:56 How many or what percentage or how does the flow of traffic
04:00:00 typically go when you're in this kind of confined space?
04:00:03 Which means that urban flood advisory two -- you have two
04:00:08 larger roads, one that is north, which is, which is MLK -- I
04:00:16 almost called it buffalo avenue.
04:00:18 Sometimes it comes to my head.
04:00:20 And south, which is Tampa Bay Boulevard.
04:00:24 So, in your experience, what do you usually see when you
04:00:29 have one road -- and they're short blocks.
04:00:32 They're not large blocks.
04:00:34 What typically happens in the dispersal of traffic in terms
04:00:38 of pattern and so on?
04:00:40 >> And that's what we looked at here.
04:00:41 That's part of what this graphic, to a degree illustrating
04:00:45 are the alternatives -- this is not a situation where we
04:00:49 vacate one street and there's one option to get in and get
04:00:53 The other one that I'll show you just to give you an idea.
04:00:58 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Lets me interrupt you for just a second
04:01:00 because the numbers you're looking at.
04:01:02 Put that graphic back up if you don't mind the number that
04:01:04 we're looking at, St. Isabel has a significantly larger
04:01:09 amount of traffic currently, not only between MacDill and
04:01:13 Gomez but between Gomez and -- trying to think what the next
04:01:17 cross street is.
04:01:19 >> Habana.
04:01:20 >>MIKE SUAREZ: No, Habana is further down.
04:01:24 So, in my mind, I guess you're right, it is Habana -- no,
04:01:29 it's not Habana.
04:01:30 Next street is not.
04:01:32 >> This is Gomez.
04:01:32 This is Habana.
04:01:35 >>MIKE SUAREZ: So, that's a larger number in relation to
04:01:39 west Lake.
04:01:40 So, we have access to another major corridor, which is
04:01:46 And then you have the two east-west corridors that are both
04:01:50 north and south of the proposed vacation.
04:01:53 My question is, is that in those kind of circumstances, in
04:01:57 your experience as a traffic engineer, typically what
04:02:01 Because does it double the traffic in the next street over,
04:02:05 two streets over?
04:02:06 Does it usually go more north or south based on what's
04:02:11 What do you usually see?
04:02:13 >> Unfortunately, it's not a usual situation because it's
04:02:16 really dependent upon the street network that's out there.
04:02:21 Where the traffic is coming from and where it's going to.
04:02:24 What are the opportunities?
04:02:25 In this instance, because of the opportunities and -- trying
04:02:31 to find another graphic that I can show you.
04:02:33 But what we have got -- this will illustrate it a little
04:02:38 What I've done here is kind of given you a percentage.
04:02:42 Where the traffic is coming from and going to.
04:02:44 And when you look here, 65% of the traffic on this segment
04:02:48 is coming from St. Isabel west, 75% -- the majority of the
04:02:56 traffic is trying to get that segment from Gomez to Habana.
04:03:00 That's where we're seeing the traffic.
04:03:02 So, from that standpoint, what are the opportunities?
04:03:05 If you're coming from the north, you've got signals at
04:03:10 either Armenia, to get there, you have a signal at Habana.
04:03:14 So, the idea is if you're trying to get back out and trying
04:03:18 to get easily on and off of MLK, you have options.
04:03:21 If most of your traffic is trying to get into this segment,
04:03:26 you have got Habana to go up and get out as opposed to
04:03:30 coming this way.
04:03:31 Same thing going south.
04:03:32 You've got Habana, which also has a signal at Tampa Bay.
04:03:37 You've got Armenia.
04:03:38 So, from that standpoint, you've got a lot of options with
04:03:42 the segment of roadway where the traffic is trying to go to.
04:03:45 So, you can't say, you know -- we anticipate it might be 20,
04:03:54 But the reality is you have so many other options to be able
04:03:57 to get to that segment of roadway that you're looking at, so
04:04:00 a good transportation, you know, the because Habana is a
04:04:04 local collector roadway.
04:04:07 You have those options.
04:04:09 So it's not a direct distribution.
04:04:12 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mr. Henry, could you put up that last graphic
04:04:14 which you had, which showed the percentages.
04:04:16 You know, and again, I can only go on your expertise.
04:04:19 I am not a traffic engineer and I'm not -- this is not an
04:04:24 insult, but I don't plan to be one any time soon.
04:04:28 Is traffic patterns also determined by destination?
04:04:31 You know, so as an example, if you have a large shopping
04:04:35 mall, let's say, traffic patterns get controlled by the
04:04:38 destination itself, correct?
04:04:39 >> Absolutely.
04:04:41 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Also in terms of like, you know, home to work
04:04:46 type of driving patterns too I assume are part of what
04:04:51 >> Sure.
04:04:52 >>MIKE SUAREZ: So if you have a major employer and a major
04:04:56 hospital, because there's two different aspects to that you
04:04:59 can have an employer that's a mall that has other people
04:05:02 that are patrons.
04:05:03 And of course hospitals which drive people who are visitors
04:05:07 primarily and also people that are going to work there.
04:05:13 Isn't it reasonable to assume that there may be because
04:05:16 there's not a road that is directly accessible by Isabel
04:05:21 there that maybe they would circumvent and go to another
04:05:27 road just south of there.
04:05:29 >> Again, we're certainly not saying no one's going to do
04:05:32 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I understand that I'm not trying to put words
04:05:34 in your mouth.
04:05:35 I'm asking the question.
04:05:36 >> Absolutely.
04:05:37 There will be some that likely that have been coming up
04:05:41 MacDill that may now turn on to LakeLake and go up here.
04:05:45 Our point is that you also have, if your destination is over
04:05:51 here, and this is closed, you have a lot of other options to
04:05:54 hit Armenia, Habana, to be able to get up there some will
04:05:59 elect to do that absolutely.
04:06:00 Some won't, some will go another direction.
04:06:02 The reality is anybody from the north, you're likely not
04:06:06 going to come down here to Lake.
04:06:07 Go here, go back up.
04:06:09 You're going to pick the opposite.
04:06:11 So really, it's the traffic from the south.
04:06:13 How do you get to and from the south?
04:06:15 >>MIKE SUAREZ: The way I assume is you're going to have the
04:06:18 traffic from the south that's going to use the new parking
04:06:21 area in some way.
04:06:23 They'll probably, in my mind, just being thinking about how,
04:06:27 what would happen with me, I'd probably go to the main
04:06:30 Find no parking closer and make my way back down, either
04:06:33 So whether it's coming from the east part of the hospital
04:06:36 property or from the west part of the hospital property,
04:06:39 chances are it's going to have an impact and probably a
04:06:41 pretty great impact on west Lake.
04:06:45 >> The hospital shouldn't have any impact because they --
04:06:49 the traffic for the hospital will have access to this
04:06:54 segment of St. Isabel, which would not have access to Gomez.
04:07:00 And have access on MacDill.
04:07:01 So the reality, wouldn't -- there would be no reason to use
04:07:05 Lake, especially visitors go on Lake, they can't get to the
04:07:10 parking for visitor parking from there.
04:07:14 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And same not necessarily going to disagree.
04:07:18 But I just want to say if you don't find parking in there,
04:07:21 you're going to probably go around to the other side
04:07:24 Most of the people that go to hospitals usually don't go
04:07:28 there often.
04:07:30 So they don't know where the traffic pattern.
04:07:32 I'm just making an assumption based on my knowledge of, you
04:07:36 know, the being a driver.
04:07:37 So, and Mr. Henry, I appreciate.
04:07:40 I think Mr. Cohen wants us to move on.
04:07:43 >>HARRY COHEN: Well, I apologize.
04:07:46 Don't mean to interrupt.
04:07:47 But let me say I have Z I do have to go to Councilwoman
04:07:50 But before do I that I have been informed at 4:30 we're
04:07:53 going to be down another Councilmember.
04:07:55 So that may affect the degree to which we are able to wrap
04:08:02 this matter up today.
04:08:04 Councilwoman Montelione?
04:08:05 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Probably should've known that before we
04:08:11 So, what you're saying is that in your opinion, west
04:08:20 LakeLake is not going to see the tremendous impact that
04:08:26 logic might say we think they're going to see.
04:08:29 And the traffic pattern wouldn't be people coming from
04:08:36 Martin Luther King south.
04:08:39 It would be from people traveling north on MacDill that
04:08:48 would be looking to turn on to LakeLake instead, because
04:08:52 they can no longer turn on Isabel.
04:08:54 But it was also said earlier that more than likely -- let me
04:08:59 ask this question.
04:09:00 Where is the main entrance to the hospital now?
04:09:04 >> It is on MacDill.
04:09:06 >>LISA MONTELIONE: It's on MacDill.
04:09:07 So the statement was made earlier that it's probably going
04:09:11 to be more of an entrance using the St. Isabel once it's
04:09:18 vacated, if it's vacated.
04:09:20 And that would be utilized more as a main entrance because
04:09:24 that's where everybody is going to park.
04:09:26 >> Well, they'll have -- it essentially would be a driveway
04:09:30 to MacDill.
04:09:31 So you'll have a driveway on MacDill directly into the
04:09:34 parking lot.
04:09:35 >>LISA MONTELIONE: But anyone who wants to go to the
04:09:36 hospital is going to come in through that --
04:09:41 >> They'll come in the same driveway.
04:09:42 If you're going to the hospital and unfamiliar, you're going
04:09:44 to go in the same driveway you would go in today.
04:09:47 It would just be surface parking at that location.
04:09:50 >> And that's the St. Isabel vacation?
04:09:53 >> That is north of St. Isabel.
04:09:56 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Maybe the aerial might help.
04:10:03 >> The entrance is right in here.
04:10:04 So it's north of St. Isabel.
04:10:07 >> So the entrance is not going to change?
04:10:10 People are going to go in that entrance and then snake their
04:10:13 way over?
04:10:30 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I see it on the site plan.
04:10:31 >> Layers the main entrance, which is there today.
04:10:34 So here's St. Isabel.
04:10:39 Here's the main entrance.
04:10:40 That's the entrance and that's the visitor parking that
04:10:42 you'll park in.
04:10:42 This, which also has an entrance to MacDill here, which is
04:10:48 the parking lot.
04:10:49 So from that standpoint, we have -- all the accessing is
04:10:55 directed to MacDill for both the visitors and the
04:10:58 So that's why I was saying, there is no ability to get
04:11:04 from -- if you come down LakeLake to get over to this
04:11:07 parking, unless you knew how to get, go through the whole
04:11:12 campus, which the back end of the hospital, so the reality
04:11:17 is, anybody coming up here is going to turn in this
04:11:21 driveway, this driveway or this driveway to get into the
04:11:27 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And that's the lesser of the number of
04:11:30 trips because if 1106 are the point between MacDill and
04:11:40 Gomez now, but only -- but 783 are continuing through to
04:11:46 Habana, you're dropping 342 -- 323 trips or only -- are
04:12:00 terminating before they get to Habana.
04:12:02 783 are moving straight through to Habana.
04:12:05 >> Correct.
04:12:06 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So my feeling is, and I'm not a traffic
04:12:10 engineer, but those 783 cars who are still trying to get to
04:12:16 Habana are going to come down Lake.
04:12:20 >> Trying to get to Habana or trying to get to MacDill?
04:12:23 >>LISA MONTELIONE: They're on MacDill.
04:12:25 They're using Isabel to get, to go all the way through to
04:12:29 They're using that as a cut through street, St. Isabel.
04:12:32 But the cut through street that they're using is not going
04:12:35 to exist any more.
04:12:36 Still going to need a cut through to get to Habana and
04:12:40 that's going to be St. Isabel.
04:12:42 Because you have 1106 from MacDill to Gomez, but 783 are
04:12:48 going --
04:12:49 >> I don't think there's large cut.
04:12:51 Think what you're seeing, there's large amount of office,
04:12:56 medical office along St. Isabel.
04:12:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well, if you put up the numbers on the
04:13:00 other diagram again.
04:13:08 You've got 1,106 cars coming from MacDill to Gomez.
04:13:13 You've got 783 that are continuing on St. Isabel past Gomez.
04:13:20 They're going somewhere.
04:13:22 783 people are going somewhere.
04:13:24 >> They're going to the offices that are between Gomez and
04:13:29 There's a significant number of medical offices.
04:13:32 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And they're still going to have to get
04:13:34 there but they're no longer going to be able to get there by
04:13:38 using St. Isabel.
04:13:39 So they're going to have to get there from another street
04:13:42 and that other street is going to be Lake.
04:13:44 >> And I guess -- the point is part of it is that -- when
04:13:50 you look at the numbers, 40% of that traffic is from the
04:13:54 So 40% right off the top is not going to be going to Lake,
04:13:58 because you're not going to come down MacDill, turn on
04:14:01 LakeLake and go back north again.
04:14:03 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well, until they realize that they can't
04:14:06 get down St. Isabel.
04:14:08 >> But from MLK, you can turn down Gomez.
04:14:12 You can turn down Habana.
04:14:14 There's other ways --
04:14:16 >>LISA MONTELIONE: But it's going to be a learning curve
04:14:18 before that happens.
04:14:20 >> Day one, everybody's going to know how to get there.
04:14:22 But ultimately you're not going to go out of your way to get
04:14:25 back here.
04:14:26 From the south, yes, a percentage of those will use Lake.
04:14:30 Again, we're not saying no one will.
04:14:32 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Do you have a number coming from the
04:14:34 It looks like 60%.
04:14:36 60:00% of the traffic is coming from the south.
04:14:38 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So that's a greater number than the
04:14:40 traffic coming from the north.
04:14:42 >> Correct.
04:14:42 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So that's what I'm getting at.
04:14:46 >> I agree.
04:14:47 But what we're saying is that a percentage of that 60% will
04:14:50 use Lake, but they will also use Habana.
04:14:54 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Right.
04:14:55 But your idea there's a myriad of options and a lot of
04:14:59 options -- there's not a lot of options.
04:15:02 60% are going to come up and go Lake.
04:15:05 >>HARRY COHEN: I think the point's been made.
04:15:08 Councilman Suarez, very briefly and then we really would
04:15:11 like to hear from the public.
04:15:12 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Petitioner.
04:15:13 I don't care who answers this.
04:15:14 Was this traffic study given for the mediation itself?
04:15:18 In addition to everything else?
04:15:21 >> We did talk about the traffic numbers as part of the
04:15:25 mediation, yes.
04:15:26 >>MIKE SUAREZ: You provided your traffic study to the
04:15:29 >> We provided these traffic volumes to the mediator.
04:15:32 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
04:15:34 >> Just want to respond to Councilman Reddick's suggestion
04:15:38 on traffic calming so the Council's aware.
04:15:40 Hospital was prepared to commit today to speed bumps.
04:15:44 But we're told by staff that that's no longer the preferred
04:15:47 method of traffic calming in the city.
04:15:49 So hospital's willing to receive the suggestions of staff on
04:15:53 how to do that and consider it.
04:15:54 They just don't have any suggestions to articulate at the
04:15:59 We'll a look forward to hearing those.
04:16:03 >>FRANK REDDICK: I think we can have our traffic engineering
04:16:05 department reach out to you with some suggestions.
04:16:09 If Ms. Mandell if you think that's a good deal.
04:16:15 >>JULIA MANDELL: The concern I have is, we have to have
04:16:19 something as part of your approval today between first and
04:16:22 second reading.
04:16:23 Otherwise, we'll have to go back to first reading when we
04:16:26 come back with the suggestion.
04:16:27 One of the things I could offer up is suggestion.
04:16:30 I don't know if this is something the hospital will agree
04:16:33 to, is a condition which provides that traffic calming will
04:16:37 be provided in a manner as approved by the transportation
04:16:41 division and manner consistent with our transportation
04:16:43 technical standards.
04:16:45 What I've asked Melanie Callaway to do is sort of get some
04:16:49 idea from a timing perspective what that would be.
04:16:52 But without getting on the ground and studying the area and
04:16:55 without knowing what type of Council will be talking about,
04:16:58 it's almost impossible to identify exactly what that traffic
04:17:02 calming would be right now the and we don't do any kind of
04:17:05 traffic bumps or those kinds of things any more for a
04:17:07 variety of reasons that we can discuss some other time.
04:17:10 I don't think it's that important for right now.
04:17:14 >>HARRY COHEN: I would really like to get to the public
04:17:16 comment because we really are on a time constraint here.
04:17:19 Let's hear from the public.
04:17:20 Thank you.
04:17:21 Come up, sir.
04:17:26 >> May it please the Council, Frankel Sierra, I've
04:17:31 previously given you my name and address and so forth.
04:17:34 I would like you to take a look at what is there now and
04:17:36 what this group of professionals represented to you when
04:17:40 they zoned, when they asked you to allow them to build a
04:17:45 four story office building on their complex.
04:17:47 This being the office building.
04:17:49 Now, all of you have been around long enough to know when
04:17:52 this hospital built, this was the entrance.
04:17:56 This being MLK, this MacDill.
04:17:58 Notice the entrance whereas very close to MLK.
04:18:01 The traffic went out that way.
04:18:02 At some point later they came along and told you we really
04:18:05 need to go in the other direction and they build an entrance
04:18:08 down here.
04:18:09 Notice how close that is to St. Isabel.
04:18:11 Notice how close it is to Lake Avenue.
04:18:13 Into the residential area.
04:18:15 All other professional offices stop at St. Isabel.
04:18:18 Don't let them go any further.
04:18:20 From there north is where it is.
04:18:21 They came in and put in a four story building for medical
04:18:25 Not hospital uses, but for doctors to rent out for whatever
04:18:27 their purposes were.
04:18:29 And they represented at that time to this Council and your
04:18:32 predecessors that there would be no other parking needed.
04:18:35 This would absolutely curve it off.
04:18:38 Now they're coming along aid saying well, really, we didn't
04:18:42 mean it.
04:18:42 Which lab the pattern since 1979 when they acquired all the
04:18:46 residences between St. Isabel and Lake Avenue and promptly
04:18:50 tore them down.
04:18:50 They've made all kinds of representations.
04:18:53 They were going to give us a buffer.
04:18:55 Oh, yeah, that was good.
04:18:57 And now they're going to say, when we went to the mediation,
04:19:00 that would be something good.
04:19:01 We could do that but they want to deed it to the city.
04:19:04 They want to do a covenant so they can wiggle back out.
04:19:09 Which has been the pattern all along.
04:19:11 I'm not a traffic consultant, but I can tell that if this is
04:19:14 the exit to the parking garage, when they come out, they
04:19:17 turn off St. Isabel.
04:19:19 And when you make the exit closer to Lake Avenue, guess what
04:19:21 they're going to do?
04:19:22 The same thing, except the next street is Lake Avenue.
04:19:24 I don't need arrows and numbers.
04:19:28 I can tell you, this traffic is going to move here when you
04:19:30 eliminate that street.
04:19:31 There are other medical offices over there.
04:19:33 Think about it, where do you suppose the traffic is being
04:19:36 From this big cluster hospital?
04:19:38 Out of their parking lot?
04:19:39 Or do you think it's going to the dentist that has three
04:19:43 people in his office?
04:19:43 I wanted to call that to your attention so you could see how
04:19:47 different this is.
04:19:47 From what they've previously represented to you and to the
04:19:51 A four story office building that, that won't generate any
04:19:55 more parking, we won't need anything.
04:19:58 Everything will be just fine.
04:20:00 Now it's a little bit different.
04:20:01 Now, I'd like to just tell you as a business person, if I'm
04:20:06 going to trade you a piece of property, I think I want the
04:20:08 same side back.
04:20:10 On the one hand they're asking you close St. Isabel giving
04:20:13 it to us, we're going to do all kinds of stuff.
04:20:16 What they've offered is 20 feet under covenant on the south
04:20:20 end of the property in exchange for 100 feet on the north
04:20:23 end contiguous to them.
04:20:24 What a great deal.
04:20:25 We would all love that.
04:20:27 What does that do?
04:20:28 That lets a big for-profit corporation who has all these
04:20:31 professionals in here to convince to you give it away.
04:20:34 And what I'm suggesting is they should give you no less than
04:20:37 what they take.
04:20:37 If you're going to vacate the street, let's have them give
04:20:41 us the same amount of property on Lake Avenue by deed.
04:20:44 Not by covenant.
04:20:46 I'm sorry that I'm out of time because there are a whole lot
04:20:49 more people that I represent than there are professionals
04:20:51 out here.
04:20:52 I understand your rules.
04:20:53 Please bear in mind that these poor people can't afford the
04:20:56 effective guys they have.
04:20:58 All they request afford is meet.
04:21:00 Bear that in mind.
04:21:01 >>HARRY COHEN: We appreciate that.
04:21:02 Next please?
04:21:03 Name for the record, please.
04:21:05 >> Charlie Miranda, 2918 West Lake Avenue.
04:21:11 I have not been sworn.
04:21:14 [ Oath administered ]
04:21:21 >> First of all, no traffic study on LakeLake has been given
04:21:25 to you.
04:21:25 No traffic study on MacDill has ever been proposed.
04:21:29 I can guarantee you that traffic on MacDill is up three,
04:21:34 No traffic study from MacDill to MLK down to Tampa Bay
04:21:37 Boulevard, no traffic study on Gomez from Tampa Bay
04:21:40 Boulevard up to MLK.
04:21:43 More importantly, let me give you a little history.
04:21:46 I'm going to go quickly.
04:21:47 MacDill Avenue never went through.
04:21:49 It stopped right around St. Isabel and Virginia.
04:21:52 No complaint from the neighbors when they opened that.
04:21:55 I'm an expert there because I've lived there for 49 years.
04:21:59 How many expansions has St. Joseph's Hospital had?
04:22:03 I'm telling you, check the record, I guarantee you they've
04:22:07 had numerous.
04:22:07 Five to ten.
04:22:08 What about the garage that they came and spoke to this
04:22:11 Council about, that they said it was in dire need of
04:22:15 You know what?
04:22:16 There's still parking in it.
04:22:18 What dire need was that?
04:22:19 That was months ago, year ago.
04:22:21 What are we talking about?
04:22:22 You trust them or you trust yourself?
04:22:24 Let me say this.
04:22:25 If you give them this and close St. Isabel, which Hartline
04:22:28 uses on event days and all state of events, where do you
04:22:33 think the bus is going to go through?
04:22:36 Let me further say this.
04:22:37 When they tell you that they're going to move and want
04:22:41 St. Isabel, what's going to happen, not to Lake Avenue, but
04:22:45 to Ohio?
04:22:47 To Woodlawn?
04:22:49 To Heiter?
04:22:51 To Collins?
04:22:52 Those streets are going to all be taken.
04:22:54 They'll be flooded with traffic.
04:22:56 It's not Lake Avenue.
04:22:57 It's the whole neighborhood.
04:22:59 When you look at these things and you look at the houses
04:23:01 that were destroyed, no neighborhood has had this many homes
04:23:05 moved for the prosperity of an entity.
04:23:09 No neighborhood has suffered and had more zoning, the
04:23:13 Planning Commission asked them to bring you a detailed map,
04:23:15 how many zonings west of Armenia from Osborne down to Lake,
04:23:21 on the west side of, between that, MacDill and Armenia.
04:23:25 No one knows.
04:23:26 I'll tell you, it's 50 to a 100.
04:23:29 Never has a neighbor suffered as much as this.
04:23:32 Hispanic neighborhood is being destroyed.
04:23:34 A minority neighborhood of good people are being washed away
04:23:39 because some big giant wants what they want.
04:23:42 The parking garage should be expended -- spend the money on
04:23:47 the one, the main hospital, they had those hydraulic jacks
04:23:52 holding it up.
04:23:53 And guess what.
04:23:54 They fixed it.
04:23:56 If you give them back, they'll knock it down.
04:23:58 Some future Council, they'll build another hospital where
04:24:02 the parking garage is at and guess what's going to happen?
04:24:05 I won't be there, I'll be dead.
04:24:06 What's going to happen to those young people with kids?
04:24:09 They're going to face a nice big tall building.
04:24:12 It's not about me.
04:24:13 It's about the neighborhood.
04:24:14 These things have to be taken to consideration.
04:24:16 These things are not the proper way of doing things.
04:24:19 This is a death sentence, not to me, but to the people who
04:24:22 are coming after me.
04:24:24 Look at the traffic study.
04:24:25 They don't give it to you.
04:24:26 They talk in generalities, this arrow, that arrow.
04:24:32 Thank you very much.
04:24:33 >>HARRY COHEN: Is there anyone else in the public that would
04:24:35 like to address Council now regarding this matter?
04:24:41 I don't see anyone.
04:24:43 Are there any -- we have rebuttal from the petitioner.
04:24:46 And then I'll ask Councilmembers for one last go round.
04:24:54 >> Thank you.
04:24:56 The only rebuttal I'll offer at the moment, because I think
04:25:01 we will be losing commissioner and down to four, and the
04:25:05 hospital will agree now that we probably should continue
04:25:08 this, which is the problem.
04:25:12 So that was just a surprise to us that we're down to four.
04:25:16 So it does change a dynamic for us.
04:25:19 So how do you want to proceed in light of that?
04:25:21 Do you want me to rebut?
04:25:23 >>HARRY COHEN: You have requested a continuance.
04:25:25 Councilwoman Montelione?
04:25:29 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I don't -- I mean, I don't see -- let me
04:25:38 rephrase this we should have known before we got an hour or
04:25:41 two into this hearing that we were going to lose a
04:25:45 Councilmember at 4:30, because we just heard all of this
04:25:48 very important testimony for a case that is potentially
04:25:53 headed for litigation, you took the gamble, petitioner, of
04:25:59 saying let's go forward and hear this case, being down one
04:26:03 And if this is approved for the vacation, we still have to
04:26:10 hear the other two.
04:26:12 And I've got questions that I was holding back about the
04:26:16 rezoning and the development agreement because we are
04:26:21 supposed to only be talking about the vacation.
04:26:23 But apparently that's not been the case.
04:26:26 These questions have been, some of them about the vacation,
04:26:29 some of them about things that are related to the rezoning
04:26:33 and the development order.
04:26:35 So, unless this is denied, and we don't hear the other two
04:26:39 we're not going to finish this in five minutes.
04:26:42 And I'm not -- as you can see, I'm not happy about that.
04:26:45 >> I understand your frustration.
04:26:47 For the record, we just learned that we're going down yet
04:26:50 one more commissioner.
04:26:51 We weren't able to predict that.
04:26:53 So when we agreed to go forward with five, that's all we
04:26:57 knew at that time.
04:26:57 So I hope this isn't going to be held against mine client.
04:27:02 >>HARRY COHEN: Well, of course not.
04:27:03 These matters are determined on the merits, not on the
04:27:08 vagaries of procedural issues.
04:27:11 What I'd like to know from our Council is how they would
04:27:14 suggest that we proceed at this moment.
04:27:16 My sense is that the, is that the Council would probably
04:27:19 like to continue this matter to our -- and not make any
04:27:24 determination today, until we have everyone back together
04:27:27 and everyone's had the chance to ask all of their questions.
04:27:32 >> Councilman Cohen and Councilman Montelione, the
04:27:35 frustration is shared.
04:27:37 However, one silver lining might be, that continuance would
04:27:40 give us time to talk to city staff about traffic calming
04:27:44 Also, the concern expressed by Mr. Sierra, the hospital
04:27:49 isn't deeding over the property.
04:27:51 There has been some creative thinking by city staff about
04:27:55 perhaps an easement would be a better vehicle than a
04:27:58 So, a silver lining is I don't think we have wasted our time
04:28:02 here today because it's brought some ideas forward that
04:28:04 could help and a continuance would give us time to when with
04:28:08 the neighbors and city staff.
04:28:12 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilman Reddick and Mulhern.
04:28:15 >>FRANK REDDICK: Let me just say this, you know, you have
04:28:18 five minutes of rebuttal time left.
04:28:21 Five minutes.
04:28:21 I'm the Councilmember who has to leave.
04:28:25 I have received a text message which require me to leave for
04:28:31 something important that just came up.
04:28:33 But I have sat here for over an hour, more than an hour and
04:28:44 heard both sides.
04:28:47 And it's your rebuttal time and you have five minutes.
04:28:55 And I will sit for those five minutes because I don't think
04:29:01 it's fair that you're down to five minute and then going to
04:29:03 be Council deliberation and you want to put this off to
04:29:09 another time.
04:29:10 I will sit here for this item number 79, hear your five
04:29:16 minutes rebuttal, hear Council deliberation, take the vote
04:29:22 and it's up to this body whether they want to move to the
04:29:26 next two items.
04:29:27 But I will state through this session, and that's my
04:29:37 To be honest with you, if we'll stay within our time
04:29:41 constraint, this should've been over with long time ago.
04:29:46 >> Yes, sir.
04:29:47 With that clarification, as long as there's five, my clients
04:29:50 said they'd go forward on five.
04:29:52 So if we get to a vote, I will be brief on my rebuttal so
04:29:56 you have opportunity to devote.
04:29:59 We were only saying if it was four, we would stop.
04:30:01 Thank you for your commitment.
04:30:04 >>FRANK REDDICK: I will stay through this item 79.
04:30:07 Out of all fairness to allow you to have rebuttal, Council
04:30:11 have deliberations and then we do the vote.
04:30:15 >>LISA MONTELIONE: That's what I was going to say.
04:30:17 >>HARRY COHEN: Well, we're here with five.
04:30:18 So you're withdrawing the request for the continuance on
04:30:21 this item.
04:30:22 >> Yes, because it was under the mistaken impression we were
04:30:25 down to four for the vote on this so thank you for that.
04:31:01 >> I just talked to everybody.
04:31:03 In the interest of time, we will stand on our prior
04:31:06 presentation, unless there are any questions of Council.
04:31:09 You know the hospital's position is as to traffic calming,
04:31:12 it's a suggestion that we would like to discuss with staff.
04:31:14 We -- they have not yet formulated a suggestion for us.
04:31:19 So, with that, we'll stand on our presentation.
04:31:21 Thank you.
04:31:23 >>HARRY COHEN: Are there questions from Councilmembers at
04:31:25 this time?
04:31:28 Councilwoman Montelione?
04:31:32 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Most of my questions were, were related
04:31:35 to the items on the site plan that may have more direct
04:31:45 correlation to the rezoning and the development agreement
04:31:52 rather than the vacation.
04:31:56 But it was brought up that it's true, we didn't see the
04:31:59 entire traffic study and I have serious concerns about the
04:32:06 redirection of the traffic that will no longer be able to
04:32:16 use St. Isabel.
04:32:19 And you know, with just seeing the one diagram and hearing
04:32:26 brief testimony, we have had vacations and rezonings before
04:32:31 where we're provided the entire traffic study so that we can
04:32:35 digest that.
04:32:36 And I don't feel comfortable with just, you know, having a
04:32:43 few percentages, a couple of dots on a diagram and testimony
04:32:48 about the traffic in such a weighty matter as this.
04:32:57 >>HARRY COHEN: Are there any other comments from
04:32:59 Councilmembers at this time?
04:33:02 If not, I would ask what the he pleasure is.
04:33:04 >> Move to close.
04:33:05 >> Second.
04:33:06 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion to close from Councilwoman
04:33:09 Mulhern, seconded by Councilman Reddick.
04:33:12 All those in favor, please indicate by saying aye.
04:33:16 What is the pleasure of Council?
04:33:21 >> Chair?
04:33:23 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I move to deny petition based on section
04:33:26 27-136, sub 5.
04:33:29 This development does not encourage flexible land
04:33:32 development, which reduces traffic, based on the evidence
04:33:37 provided by their own traffic engineer, Mr. Henry, that
04:33:41 based on the studies that he provided to us, that it would
04:33:45 increase traffic along West Lake Avenue, which would be a
04:33:49 burden and a detriment to the neighborhood just south of the
04:33:52 >> Second.
04:33:54 >>HARRY COHEN: Okay.
04:33:54 We have a motion for denial from Councilman Suarez.
04:33:58 Seconded by Councilman Reddick.
04:33:59 All those in favor, please indicate by saying aye.
04:34:09 >> The motion carried with Capin being absent and Miranda
04:34:18 >>HARRY COHEN: Okay.
04:34:19 Thank you very much.
04:34:19 My understanding is that we are not going to go forward at
04:34:26 this time on the remaining items.
04:34:28 So, with that, I will move to new business.
04:34:32 Councilman Suarez?
04:34:34 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair.
04:34:35 I'd like to -- I'd like a motion to write and present a
04:34:42 commendation to Rona Metcalf for her dedication to Life
04:34:46 Enrichment Center for the last 14 years and celebrate her
04:34:49 retirement from that.
04:34:51 >> Second.
04:34:55 >>HARRY COHEN: I'm sorry, excuse me.
04:34:56 I'm sorry about that.
04:34:58 We have a motion from Councilman Suarez, seconded by
04:35:00 Councilman Reddick.
04:35:01 All those in favor, please indicate by saying aye.
04:35:05 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And just one more thing.
04:35:06 Have a happy Thanksgiving.
04:35:08 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilman Reddick?
04:35:11 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Chairman, you can come back up here
04:35:14 [ Laughter ]
04:35:19 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Mulhern?
04:35:21 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to congratulate this Council
04:35:23 on Tampa being voted the, or survey showing that Tampa was
04:35:29 the friendliest LGBT city in the country, thanks to us.
04:35:39 Papers forgot who passed those answer.
04:35:45 >>HARRY COHEN: One did mention the domestic violence
04:35:47 partnership registry.
04:35:48 >>LISA MONTELIONE: It didn't mention who brought it up and
04:35:51 how it got passed.
04:35:52 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Montelione?
04:35:55 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And this just came up because of the
04:36:00 application that was heard earlier.
04:36:02 And it has happened in the past.
04:36:03 And I think that much in the way, translators are provided
04:36:08 for the hearing impaired, that staff should -- staff, you
04:36:16 Staff isn't listening.
04:36:21 Thank you.
04:36:22 I don't know if this is procedurally something that we would
04:36:29 pass by resolution or a rule change or how this is
04:36:36 But I think that when staff knows that an applicant is
04:36:40 coming before us that does not speak English, whether it's
04:36:42 because they're hearing impaired or because there's another
04:36:46 language they are more comfortable with, that the city
04:36:49 provides a translator.
04:36:51 My issue is that, although the chair provides some
04:36:57 translation services, I think that his acting as a
04:37:02 representative of the applicant is problematic.
04:37:07 >>MIKE SUAREZ: If I may, Councilwoman Montelione, I think
04:37:09 the issue is more what, who is translating for them at the
04:37:13 moment that they are meeting with staff.
04:37:15 Not with when they come here.
04:37:17 Because I think that it could be unduly prejudicial to them
04:37:21 if they don't understand the process and they don't have
04:37:23 someone explaining it to them.
04:37:25 Again, that's just my own.
04:37:27 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I think somebody needs to be here.
04:37:29 >>MIKE SUAREZ: But again, I think the process starts at the
04:37:31 staff level, because if that gentleman was here and -- who
04:37:35 is telling him what the rules are?
04:37:37 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Understood.
04:37:39 >>JULIA MANDELL: There is a legal connotations as relates to
04:37:42 translating services, especially in the middle of
04:37:44 quasi-judicial proceedings.
04:37:45 And it's an issue that I recall the legal department looked
04:37:48 at a couple of years ago.
04:37:50 So, maybe just ask for us to come back and report to you
04:37:53 what the staff did.
04:37:55 I can't recall off the top of my head.
04:37:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So a staff, I'll make a motion for a
04:38:00 staff report on January 9th for staff to consider the issue
04:38:07 of translation services for those who are either hearing
04:38:11 impaired or speakers of another language when they appear
04:38:16 before Council on a quasi-judicial setting.
04:38:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Ms. Montelione, second by Mr.
04:38:21 All in favor of the motion, please indicate by saying aye.
04:38:24 Opposed nay.
04:38:26 The ayes have it unanimously.
04:38:27 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
04:38:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen?
04:38:31 >>HARRY COHEN: Number one I'd like to make a motion to
04:38:33 remove items number 80 and 81 from the agenda.
04:38:38 >>JULIA MANDELL: Well, I think it's not removing tomorrow
04:38:42 from the agenda because procedurally, we're sort of in an
04:38:46 interesting perspective since this came through a mediation.
04:38:49 I'm going to ask you actually request those two items for
04:38:52 two weeks to allow me to figure out procedurally where we
04:38:55 >>HARRY COHEN: I'd like to make a motion to continue items
04:38:58 80 and 81 for two weeks.
04:39:00 >>FRANK REDDICK: I'll second your vote.
04:39:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Chairman can't make a motion.
04:39:06 >>HARRY COHEN: Well, I'd like to entertain a motion.
04:39:08 >>FRANK REDDICK: I'll move to continue 81 -- 80 and 81 for
04:39:13 two weeks.
04:39:13 >> Second.
04:39:16 >> Date and time please.
04:39:17 >> That would be December 5th at 10:00 a.m.
04:39:21 >>FRANK REDDICK: Staff report.
04:39:25 >>HARRY COHEN: Has to be time certain.
04:39:27 >>FRANK REDDICK: 9:30 a.m.
04:39:29 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion to move this by Councilman
04:39:31 Reddick to December 5th at 9:30 a.m.
04:39:34 That motion was seconded by Councilman Suarez.
04:39:36 All those in favor, please indicate by saying aye.
04:39:39 Well, on that note, I do want to wish everyone a very happy
04:39:43 and healthy Thanksgiving.
04:39:45 And I hope everyone enjoys the well-deserved time off.
04:39:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We need a motion to receive and file the
04:39:52 Motion by Mr. Reddick, second by Mr. Cohen, all in favor of
04:39:56 the motion, please indicate by saying aye.
04:39:57 Opposed nay.
04:39:59 The ayes have it unanimously.
04:40:00 Anyone in the audience have any general comments for the
04:40:02 All 500 of you.
04:40:03 I don't see anyone.
04:40:04 They're all satisfied.
04:40:06 We stand adjourned.
04:40:07 Thank you very much.
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