Tampa City Council
Thursday, June 19, 2014
9:00 a.m. Workshops
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09:04:21 [Sounding gavel]
09:04:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: City Council is called to order.
09:04:24 The chair yields to Mr. Harry Cohen.
09:04:26 >> Thank you, Mr. Chair.
09:04:28 Our prayer this morning will be presented by our clerk
09:04:31 Shirley Foxx-Knowles.
09:04:33 Please stand for the prayer and for the pledge of
09:04:36 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Good morning and council and
09:04:44 everyone on this Juneteenth day.
09:04:47 Let us pray.
09:04:48 Father, what a joy it is to praise you and be here once
09:04:51 again to give the thanks for your grace and mercy.
09:04:55 Thank you, father, for how you have blessed us.
09:04:57 You have been so good to us, and we are truly thankful.
09:05:03 Thank you for the opportunity to be here at this moment in
09:05:06 Bless our council, our mayor, our administration, our
09:05:11 employees, and our citizens.
09:05:17 Continue to be keep us all in your care.
09:05:20 Bless those this morning being recognized for their
09:05:25 For their service and caring.
09:05:29 Keep them in your loving care.
09:05:30 Today we ask you to bless this workshop session as council
09:05:34 takes care of city matters.
09:05:36 Continue to guide our council so that they will continue to
09:05:41 do what is best for all of our citizens.
09:05:44 Continue to make them instruments of your will.
09:05:47 Lead them as they make decisions that affect all of our
09:05:52 Father, help us to remember to be kind to one another and to
09:05:56 always give you all the praises and thanks.
09:05:59 In your most holy name we pray.
09:06:02 Let us all say amen.
09:06:04 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:06:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Roll call.
09:06:32 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
09:06:36 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Present.
09:06:37 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
09:06:39 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
09:06:40 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Here.
09:06:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:06:43 Item number 1.
09:06:44 Presentation, commendation to police Officer of the Month.
09:06:48 Mr. Frank Reddick will do that along with our Chief Castor
09:06:51 who made the news the other day.
09:07:01 >> And you know they showed it over and over.
09:07:04 >> You get a little bit of what we get around here.
09:07:08 >>FRANK REDDICK: It's my pleasure again to introduce our
09:07:16 officer for the month of June 2014, and I will turn it over
09:07:26 to the chief.
09:07:26 >> Chief Castor: Always my pleasure to bring Tampa's best
09:07:31 before you.
09:07:31 Today we have Marcus Elam, one of our school resource
09:07:37 As now we have an officer in every middle and high school.
09:07:40 He has one of the quieter middle schools in Van Buren junior
09:07:44 high but does an outstanding job as do all of our school
09:07:47 resource officers.
09:07:49 They have monthly meetings that I try to make on a regular
09:07:52 basis, and one of the things that I always remind the school
09:07:56 resource office of is that their duty is not only to keep
09:08:01 the school environment safe, make it a safe learning
09:08:06 environment for the children but also to be that positive
09:08:08 influence in the kids' lives.
09:08:09 And unfortunately they are the only positive influence.
09:08:12 And Marcus Elam couldn't be a better example of that dual
09:08:17 role of the peacekeeper and the positive example to the kids
09:08:21 in our school system.
09:08:22 So I'm very, very proud of him.
09:08:24 He's been assigned as a school resource officer at Van Buren
09:08:29 during the last school year.
09:08:30 He's established an outstanding rapport with the faculty and
09:08:35 the students.
09:08:35 He conducted an extensive bicycle registration program.
09:08:38 And I know bicycle theft doesn't sound like a big item or a
09:08:43 serious crime, but it's very serious to the young kids that
09:08:46 that may be their only mode of transportation, and for some
09:08:49 adults, and to be a degree, it drives our larceny numbers
09:08:53 here in the city, so we take it very, very seriously.
09:08:58 They also make sure that everyone on the campus is safe.
09:09:01 And that is his utmost priority.
09:09:03 He works diligently to educate and enlists the help by
09:09:10 conducting school safety presentation entitled "see
09:09:13 something say something."
09:09:15 Officer Elam recognized there were numerous individuals
09:09:19 hanging around Van Buren during the time that the school was
09:09:23 letting out in the afternoon, and the problem that that
09:09:27 causes, we had to call all of our evening shift officers off
09:09:30 of their normal duties to try to help us get all of the
09:09:35 students safely out of the school and have these other kids
09:09:38 that were hanging out to start fights, to stop doing that.
09:09:43 So not only did he address the problem, he solved it so that
09:09:48 we didn't have to bring officers off of the street to handle
09:09:53 this issue.
09:09:53 And I think you are all aware we had these types of issues
09:09:56 in the past.
09:09:59 They went over to the Van Buren junior high school and
09:10:03 officer Elam handled.
09:10:05 That he educated all the patrol units about the trespass on
09:10:08 school safety zone, and says a person can be trespassed
09:10:13 within 500 feet of a school.
09:10:15 After several warnings were given and a few arrests were
09:10:18 made, everybody got the word and they stopped coming to Van
09:10:22 Buren at the time that school is letting out.
09:10:24 Problem solved.
09:10:26 And the evening shift units could go on doing what they do
09:10:29 on a regular routine.
09:10:32 Officer Elam cares about the welfare of his students.
09:10:35 Just one example of his involvement with the student was one
09:10:38 that an individual that had mental health issues that were
09:10:41 going unmedicated due to the parents' inaction.
09:10:44 The student performed very well academically and
09:10:47 behaviorally when on medication but lacks focus and
09:10:50 threatened other students with physical force when he was
09:10:54 off medication.
09:10:56 Officer Elam performed his duties in dealing with the actual
09:10:59 threats to others on campus but also informed the school
09:11:03 He was involved in a meeting with the parents, school
09:11:05 administration and the school psychologist to improve the
09:11:08 situation, and he conducted two home visits on his own time
09:11:14 and has had ongoing contact with the students to build his
09:11:19 rapport and trust and to ensure that the family is providing
09:11:22 the needed medication to this young man.
09:11:25 He also has been a mentor to several students by providing
09:11:28 them with appropriate direction when facing challenges of
09:11:31 being in middle school.
09:11:33 And although we have forgotten those challenges, my kids
09:11:39 just went through it and it is a difficult time.
09:11:41 Officer Elam demonstrated an ability to reduce crime and
09:11:46 assist his students.
09:11:48 He's made a number of arrests at Van Buren.
09:11:51 He did over 300 field checks of suspicious individuals
09:11:56 around that school, and he has also decreased just in the
09:12:00 one year he's been there, decreased the calls for services
09:12:03 at Van Buren by 45%.
09:12:05 So he's a one-man crime fighting machine.
09:12:10 During a two-day period in March of 2014 he investigated
09:12:14 himself two bike thefts. In both case it is bikes had been
09:12:18 registered bikes and were recovered and returned tots owners
09:12:21 of the juvenile defendants were identified and arrested.
09:12:25 The arrest sent a strong message to students on campus.
09:12:27 If you commit a crime, you will be held responsible.
09:12:30 So he has certainly been a game changer.
09:12:34 I have received a number of accolades for officer Elam not
09:12:38 only the fact at Van Buren but also from the parents and
09:12:42 So he is an outstanding example of what the school resource
09:12:45 officers do and what makes the Tampa Police Department
09:12:49 So it is my honor to name him as Officer of the Month for
09:12:52 June 20714.
09:12:54 [ Applause ]
09:13:19 >>FRANK REDDICK: On behalf Tampa City Council we would like
09:13:22 to present you with a commendation showing our appreciation
09:13:24 to you for being selected Officer of the Month June 2014.
09:13:34 And we treat you with some goodies as well.
09:13:39 >> President of Tampa PBA.
09:13:50 Joining me is police officer Dave COMACK, vice-president of
09:13:57 the PBA.
09:13:58 I'm very proud to announce that vice-president Elam is a
09:14:02 member of the almost 1,000 Tampa police officers that belong
09:14:07 to the Tampa PBA.
09:14:09 Chief, I want to thank you for recognizing one of our
09:14:12 I have actually had the -- I have actually worked with
09:14:18 Marcus in the past, and he is absolutely an excellent
09:14:21 resource officer.
09:14:26 Marcus, we want to present you with this as a gift for doing
09:14:29 such a fine job and recognizing Tampa PBA.
09:14:34 [ Applause ]
09:14:49 >> I'm Joel Honeywell on behalf vanguard.
09:15:00 We appreciate everything you have done,.
09:15:06 >> Mike on behalf of the Gonzmart family a $100 gift card.
09:15:25 Thank you for what you do.
09:15:27 We appreciate it.
09:15:27 >> We thank you for everything you do.
09:15:41 >> Steve Stickley representing Stepp's towing service.
09:15:44 On behalf of Jim, Judy and Todd step, we do have a small
09:15:48 token of appreciation for you.
09:15:55 If you don't mind I will bring it by later on today.
09:15:58 But I do have a gift card from Lee Roy Selmon's.
09:16:06 >> Good morning.
09:16:08 Frank DeSoto with Bill Currie Ford.
09:16:11 On behalf of the Currie family, and all the employees at
09:16:15 Bill Currie Ford we would like to congratulate you on a job
09:16:21 well done and present with you this watch.
09:16:23 and we hope that you will continue to be an asset to the
09:16:26 City of Tampa.
09:16:27 Thanks for what you do.
09:16:31 [ Applause ]
09:16:34 >> On behalf of Tampa Bay theater I would like to present
09:16:39 you with a dual membership for you and whoever you choose to
09:16:46 come and see a movie.
09:16:47 >> It's a pleasure.
09:16:54 I'm humbled.
09:16:55 This is greatly appreciated by the department.
09:17:00 I worked with some of these guys before in the past.
09:17:05 A lot of trial and tribulations, a year and a half ago, came
09:17:10 to my side, and they took care of me, and the schedule,
09:17:16 worked with me, things I had to go through with treatment.
09:17:19 Glad to say that now I'm all better and 100%.
09:17:22 And I'm just happy to be here.
09:17:26 [ Applause ]
09:17:28 >> Chief Castor: And all the school officers when they are
09:17:37 out of school on summer they are not on vacation.
09:17:39 They are all out in the police athletic league and
09:17:43 throughout our parks in the City of Tampa making sure that
09:17:46 they are all safe so the kids have constructive activities
09:17:49 during the summer.
09:17:50 And Marcus is a great part of that as well.
09:17:52 Thank you, council.
09:17:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, chief.
09:17:55 Thank you, officer Elam.
09:18:01 [ Applause ]
09:18:02 Item number 2.
09:18:15 I have been informed that will be continued to a later date
09:18:19 when Betty Castor could be here for the presentation.
09:18:23 So I need a motion to hold to a future date.
09:18:25 I have a motion by Mr. Cohen, second by Mrs. Mulhern.
09:18:28 All in favor of the motion?
09:18:30 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:18:32 We go to item number 3.
09:18:33 Presentation of commendation by Mr. Bus rider.
09:18:44 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair, your kind words to both
09:18:49 the chief of police and to me are always greatly
09:18:55 Council, it's my pleasure to present a commendation and
09:18:58 proclamation from the mayor for the ninth annual national
09:19:02 dump the pump day.
09:19:03 As the chair was just alluding, to bussed in to work,
09:19:10 sometimes it isn't an easy experience when it's 90 degrees
09:19:16 out and 100% humidity.
09:19:18 Sometimes it can be difficult especially in a suit.
09:19:20 But I found it to be a very quick and easy way to get
09:19:24 We are appreciative of the people who provide that service,
09:19:27 and that's Hart.
09:19:28 As now the people who work in the city are very hard
09:19:31 Some of the people at Hart provide a transit system
09:19:33 throughout this county.
09:19:34 It's my pleasure to have the CEO of Hart, Kathryn, and Jeff
09:19:42 Stewart, and Mr. Michael Stevens who does everything else
09:19:45 that they don't do.
09:19:46 So Michael is really a terrific HR director and a lawyer to
09:19:51 So that makes it even better.
09:19:52 You have got a lot more hats to wear to get into everything
09:19:56 that you do.
09:19:56 So without further ado, I would like to read our
09:20:03 Tampa City Council understands that by using public
09:20:05 transportation, people save money, help the environment,
09:20:08 reduce dependence on foreign oil and improve America's
09:20:11 quality of life.
09:20:12 While transportation is an important part of our nation's
09:20:15 transportation system, and provides citizens with travel
09:20:17 options other than driving a car, and it is something that
09:20:20 all cities must recognize and invest in.
09:20:23 Since every dollar invested public transportation generates
09:20:26 approximately $4 in economic return which powers or
09:20:31 community growth and revitalization.
09:20:33 Locally, Hillsborough area regional transit or Hart buses
09:20:37 make over 545,000 trips per year and keep about 45,000 cars
09:20:42 per day off the road.
09:20:44 It's with our support and our encouragement that transit
09:20:47 ridership is increasing, and we appreciate Hart's commitment
09:20:51 to promoting the annual national dump the pump day on this
09:20:54 day, June 19, 2014.
09:20:58 [ Applause ]
09:20:59 And before I introduce Kathryn again, let me just read our
09:21:08 proclamation from our mayor.
09:21:11 You know, there's a lot of whereases in the proclamation.
09:21:15 I wasn't looking at you, Charlie. Anyway, I will read a
09:21:18 little bit about what it is.
09:21:19 Most of what we are already talked about, but it's
09:21:23 encouraging that the mayor recognizes that Hart is an
09:21:25 important asset of our city and important aspect of our
09:21:31 Without Hart many people can't get to work on a day-to-day
09:21:34 Many people can't get to school and to other places to visit
09:21:38 their friends throughout the rest of the county.
09:21:40 For $2 you can get to almost anywhere in the county.
09:21:43 Sometimes it isn't easy because we need a more expanded
09:21:47 transit system.
09:21:47 I think we all know.
09:21:49 That but Hart is doing a great job considering the amounts
09:21:51 of money that we are able to get from the public trust, and
09:21:54 we hope that we will be able to expand in the future.
09:21:57 Kathryn, if you could, please, come up here and tell us a
09:22:00 little about Hart.
09:22:01 >> Thank you members of the council, so much for your
09:22:04 recognition today.
09:22:04 We appreciate your support every day.
09:22:07 The Councilman noted we are averaging a lot of days over
09:22:10 50,000 folks.
09:22:12 That's a lot of folks.
09:22:13 A lot of them here in Tampa.
09:22:14 60% of our ridership is on the Tampa centered route.
09:22:19 A lot pulling out after midnight on weekdays.
09:22:23 But if you are at the emergency room at night, it's likely
09:22:27 they will get there at Hart.
09:22:29 We support the jobs, the background of the community.
09:22:33 The fantastic work of our operators out at 3 in the morning
09:22:36 and going home at 3 in the morning and mechanics keeping
09:22:39 buses on the road.
09:22:40 So we greatly appreciate your support today.
09:22:42 We invite everyone to come join us, get you all over town,
09:22:48 all over the county if you want.
09:22:50 And if you want to know where that bus is please get our
09:22:52 free AP, one bus away.
09:22:54 Our friends at USF, no exactly when that bus will be close
09:23:00 to you.
09:23:01 We are proud of our partnership with Cutter and greatly
09:23:06 support the support of the City of Tampa.
09:23:09 Thank you very much.
09:23:18 [ Applause ]
09:23:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:23:33 We appreciate you being here, all of you.
09:23:36 Thank you.
09:23:37 We go to public comment.
09:23:38 Anyone in the audience to speak on items 1, 2, 3?
09:23:43 Items 1 through 3.
09:23:44 Anyone want to speak on those items?
09:23:46 And then I am going to have, because it says items 1 through
09:23:49 4, but 4 hasn't been heard yet.
09:23:51 I am going to go 1, through 3, then 4.
09:23:55 Items 1 through 3.
09:23:56 Anyone that wants to speak on the police Officer of the
09:23:58 Month, the one that was canceled, and Hartline?
09:24:07 It's very simple.
09:24:08 Item 1, item 2, and item 3.
09:24:12 I see no one.
09:24:13 We go to item 4.
09:24:14 Then I am going to go back to public hearings -- I mean
09:24:17 public comments on 4.
09:24:24 Items 1, 2 and 3.
09:24:25 Only on items 1, 2 and 3.
09:24:27 >> Ed Tillou: Okay W.respect to the Hart award.
09:24:39 I was a little --
09:24:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I need your name for the record.
09:24:44 >> -- because I thought it was about Hart.
09:24:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I need your name on the record, sir.
09:24:48 >> Okay.
09:24:49 Wait a second.
09:24:50 I'm ed, Ed Tillou of Sulphur Springs.
09:24:53 I thought that was for Hart in general.
09:24:55 But actually it was for a very specific thing, which is a
09:24:58 very good thing to stump the pump.
09:25:00 It's finally getting publicity after a long time of not.
09:25:03 And the thing that goes with it, why I say that is because
09:25:09 they did that ten times a week, a person sees things on Hart
09:25:15 that are really wretched.
09:25:16 They really foul people up.
09:25:18 And what happens is you say to yourself, ten times a week,
09:25:24 if the people who run Hart use Hart, then things like this
09:25:27 wouldn't exist.
09:25:29 And you say that ten times a week.
09:25:32 And a lot of times, yes, frustrations and aggravations are
09:25:37 the things that cause people to throw up their hands and
09:25:39 say, well, I am just going to get a car.
09:25:42 So, anyway, with respect to item 2, which I think seemed to
09:25:49 go from one point to the other, and sometimes the person,
09:25:55 like was supposed to be a public hearing on something with
09:26:00 Channelside, the work they do with the docks and things.
09:26:04 I wanted to say something about that at the public hearing
09:26:07 and just skipped right over.
09:26:08 So sometimes it's very hard to keep a handle on a lot of
09:26:12 these things.
09:26:13 But be that as it may, with respect to item 2, which it
09:26:22 seemed to be skipped over but I'll speak about that.
09:26:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I wasn't seeing it was skipped over.
09:26:28 >> That's what I mean.
09:26:31 Was it withdrawn?
09:26:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It was continued to a future date when
09:26:34 Ms. Castor could be here.
09:26:35 >> Okay.
09:26:37 Well, should I speak about it now?
09:26:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I said 1, 2 and 3.
09:26:40 1, 2 and 3.
09:26:41 >> Okay.
09:26:43 With respect to that, there's a real need to vet these
09:26:45 commendations more.
09:26:46 And I'm not saying you guys come up with child molesting or
09:26:50 something like that but there's a very serious problem out
09:26:52 here, the technology corridor, and more people would be here
09:26:57 during it if stem was in order.
09:27:02 Now it's like a broken clock is right twice a day.
09:27:06 Now, I was in a teaching certification program for stem to
09:27:10 get the credentials, and that was phased out.
09:27:14 And that could have been something done on a level within
09:27:18 the department.
09:27:18 But the implication was that came from high up when Mrs.
09:27:23 Castor was over at USF.
09:27:25 I lost my home as a result of that because that was about
09:27:31 I would have been a male teacher out in the school system
09:27:36 teaching stem.
09:27:37 Now they have to offer people $10,000 to do the same thing.
09:27:42 So anyway --
09:27:45 (Bell sounds).
09:27:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:27:47 >> I have my usual handouts.
09:27:49 >> Teresa Miller.
09:28:02 My sons went to Middleton high school and they were there
09:28:05 when it first started and we had helicopters going over, and
09:28:08 then the police came in and really helped us keep it safe
09:28:11 and clean.
09:28:12 And I got teary eyed hearing how much that officer did for
09:28:16 his school.
09:28:17 And I was sitting and thinking, I wish more people were here
09:28:20 to see how the police really reach out and help communities
09:28:23 and figure out the problem and solve it.
09:28:27 So just to be here to see that.
09:28:32 And thank you for your support for our police force.
09:28:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you so much.
09:28:37 Anyone else?
09:28:39 1, 2, 3.
09:28:41 Item number 4.
09:28:42 >> Good morning, chairman, council members.
09:28:47 Sonya Little, revenue and finance.
09:28:49 Thank you for the opportunity to come before you to present
09:28:53 the city's fiscal year 2013 comprehensive financial annual
09:28:57 report, also known as the CAFR.
09:29:06 You will recognize we are delayed this year.
09:29:10 Typically we have the financial process deliver the CAFR.
09:29:15 I believe by March 31st of every year for the prior
09:29:18 fiscal year.
09:29:19 This time we were about 60 days delayed because of our ERP
09:29:24 Really what that did is it gave us a really fine opportunity
09:29:27 to address some of the major concerns or implement some of
09:29:31 the major initiatives that we had mapped out as a result of
09:29:36 prior audits.
09:29:37 And before you is a copy of the final 2013 CAFR.
09:29:43 If you will recall, we are required pursuant toe Florida
09:29:46 statutes to issue a CAFR annual -- and it's basically
09:29:55 management of the city's finance.
09:29:58 Basically, we are, as you hear, every time I come up, even
09:30:02 though we face some challenges and very sound financial
09:30:05 conditions, meaning that we can pay our bills, and keep the
09:30:09 services that we provide, this CAFR is a snapshot of our
09:30:15 September 30, 2013, of our financial position.
09:30:19 This CAFR goes in partnership with the budget so that you
09:30:22 will see that our vision and our strategic plan is actually
09:30:28 captured and reported in the CAFR so that we can provide you
09:30:32 with our budget versus the actual performance of the city
09:30:37 from a financial perspective.
09:30:42 Overall, and this is found in the management discussion of
09:30:45 the CAFR that begins on page 23, but just to summarize this
09:30:50 real briefly, overall the city's governmental ride total
09:30:55 assets are 2.9 billion dollars with total liabilities of 998
09:31:01 That leaves us with a net position of 1.991 billion dollars.
09:31:06 From a revenue and expenditure perspective, government wide
09:31:09 or city-wide, in fiscal year 2013 we had revenues coming in,
09:31:16 new revenues coming in to the city of $7.1 million.
09:31:21 If you were to compare '13 to '12 revenues, you will see
09:31:25 that there is about a 13% decrease in '13, and that's
09:31:30 primarily because we received the grant funding for the RNC,
09:31:36 so don't be alarmed if you see a huge disparity there.
09:31:43 Leaving us with a net increase of 2.1 million.
09:31:45 All of this is included in the management discussion and
09:31:49 It's pretty much a summary of the city's overall financial
09:31:54 performance for '13.
09:31:56 Also important to you is as it relates to the audit process,
09:32:01 which we again used for the third consecutive year, the
09:32:06 independent audit firm to perform this year's audit.
09:32:11 We go through a process which includes Councilman Cohen as
09:32:16 finance chair, for the revenue and fine department, as part
09:32:20 of the process when we have several meetings, and map out a
09:32:23 plan, a timetable and a list of items, and the auditors
09:32:28 provide us with the great detail related to the actual audit
09:32:34 As a result of this year's audit, when compared to '12 which
09:32:39 you may remember also, the city had several findings as far
09:32:44 back as 2009.
09:32:47 Recommendations that have been provided to our external
09:32:51 audit year after year after year, made a very conscious
09:32:55 effort to address those, fiscal year '13 and you will find
09:33:00 response from our external auditor that nine findings that
09:33:06 occurred in 2012 were 100% eliminated and addressed and we
09:33:11 are very pleased, our team in our revenue and finance
09:33:16 accounting department along with other partners throughout
09:33:18 the city worked very, very hard, and I really want to point
09:33:21 this out because it's important that we are able to
09:33:24 demonstrate that we are addressing and being very mindful of
09:33:28 the need to have internal controls to protect the city's
09:33:35 So want to command the staff for making the commitment and
09:33:38 really focusing on addressing those issues.
09:33:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen.
09:33:43 >>HARRY COHEN: You mentioned this earlier but it shouldn't
09:33:45 go without being noted that all of this was accomplished
09:33:49 simultaneously with the implementation of the ERP system.
09:33:53 So not just one thing is going on, but two things are going
09:33:57 on that require a lot of extra time and effort.
09:34:02 And it makes the accomplishment that much more significant.
09:34:06 >>SONYA LITTLE: Thank you, sir.
09:34:11 I appreciate you pointing that out.
09:34:12 Because we have a great team, very committed because it was
09:34:14 a huge challenge trying to get the financial modules
09:34:17 implemented and then going through an audit process where we
09:34:20 were being audited under both the old system and the new
09:34:24 system simultaneously.
09:34:25 So that being said, the only finding that we received for
09:34:30 fiscal year 2013 was related to our delay in record filing
09:34:37 cash because we were going between two systems, the old
09:34:39 system and the new system.
09:34:41 There were no roars or problems once the reconciliation
09:34:45 process was complete, but it was -- it took longer than it
09:34:50 should take under ordinary circumstances.
09:34:53 So in this case, the auditors have indicated that we have a
09:34:59 clean opinion, and what is now an unmodified opinion which
09:35:04 we used to say unqualified every year they change what they
09:35:08 call it but the bottom line is we have a clean opinion from
09:35:14 our external auditors which really means that they believe
09:35:18 that our financial statements are presented clearly, and
09:35:21 that they conform with generally accepted accounting
09:35:25 principles, so with that I would be willing to entertain any
09:35:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any comments or questions from Mrs.
09:35:36 Little at this time?
09:35:36 I see none.
09:35:37 >>SONYA LITTLE: Mr. Chairman, we just ask that it be
09:35:44 received and filed.
09:35:45 It's a process that we have to go through.
09:35:48 I don't know if there is an adoption required, but --
09:35:53 >>HARRY COHEN: Move to receive and file.
09:35:54 >> Second.
09:35:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Cohen to receive
09:35:56 and file the documents.
09:35:57 Seconded by Mrs. Capin.
09:35:59 Further discussion by council members?
09:36:00 All in favor?
09:36:02 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:36:03 >>SONYA LITTLE: Thank you, sir.
09:36:05 May I make one request, please?
09:36:07 Because the team worked so very hard.
09:36:09 We have a whole team of accountants, analysts, and staff
09:36:15 back in the office that are behind the scenes that work
09:36:19 tirelessly to deliver this type of product on behalf of the
09:36:23 city which consistently receive awards for products that we
09:36:27 And I would like to recognize, if I may have them just
09:36:30 stand, just real quickly, sir.
09:36:33 The team, I call them the front line team because they are
09:36:37 the ones I really go to during this whole process, and then
09:36:41 they go out and carry forth with the rest of the staff.
09:36:44 We have Mr. Lee Huffstetler, the chief accountant.
09:36:51 We have our accounting operations manager.
09:36:54 Miss Lee who is one of our accountants, as well as miss
09:37:02 Pamela McCarter.
09:37:04 Can't forget Pamela.
09:37:07 This team, you will find them at all ours of the evening
09:37:11 working hard to get it done along with our other staff.
09:37:14 But thank you for the opportunity.
09:37:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And remember, Mrs. Little, a good leader
09:37:18 is one who takes her good people out to lunch.
09:37:21 [ Laughter ]
09:37:24 >>SONYA LITTLE: Thank you, sir.
09:37:25 >>MARY MULHERN: So you know what is expected.
09:37:31 [ Laughter ]
09:37:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Again we are going to go to three minutes
09:37:34 on this subject matter.
09:37:38 Anyone in the audience care to speak on this matter come
09:37:40 Item number 4.
09:37:41 >> Kimberly Overman, actually here for a variety of
09:37:54 different reasons today, but on item 4, I just wanted to
09:37:58 commend the budget and finance office.
09:38:00 They are doing an excellent job of keeping track of all of
09:38:04 our money.
09:38:05 And with limited resources, and as you mentioned earlier,
09:38:10 the ERP program went through two gender changes and
09:38:15 coordinating not only with our government system, but with
09:38:18 the county system, who is also added to that.
09:38:21 They have done a marvelous job of auditing not only 2013 but
09:38:25 are also providing the budget and finance advisory committee
09:38:28 that advises you on ideas and concepts and reasons to pay
09:38:34 attention to the budget.
09:38:38 The office has done a fine job of getting us good
09:38:41 We do have a workshop scheduled next week, if I am not
09:38:45 And our team is looking to try to gather enough information
09:38:48 to come back to you to present some ideas as a result of the
09:38:52 advisory council's research into work we have done with the
09:38:57 I don't know that we are going to be prepared for next
09:39:00 week's workshop, and looking at the calendar and given the
09:39:03 target of the mayor's presentation of the budget on the
09:39:06 24th, you need to possibly request that we have some
09:39:10 time on the 17th of July which is when the council
09:39:13 returns to do a presentation if that is the council's
09:39:22 Not right this minute.
09:39:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am not going to be here the 17th.
09:39:26 That doesn't mean it won't happen on the 17th.
09:39:29 But I want to thank you and all those that are serving on
09:39:32 your committee that is spearheading and you have done an
09:39:37 excellent job.
09:39:38 You have worked along with the budget department, with Mrs.
09:39:43 Little, and we appreciate the time, at no charge to the city
09:39:47 that all of you are giving.
09:39:48 >> And this is very important.
09:39:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I always say free time is the most
09:39:53 expensive time when you are giving it.
09:39:55 And we appreciate it very much.
09:39:57 Mr. Cohen.
09:39:57 >>HARRY COHEN: In terms of setting the date for your
09:40:00 presentation, I think the best thing would be, we are going
09:40:07 to have a very full agenda that day, and it's the first day
09:40:10 back, and I know some council members will not be here.
09:40:13 We have not actually coordinated yet the exact date and time
09:40:17 for the mayor's presentation.
09:40:19 Is it necessary that your presentation be before or after?
09:40:25 Can it be just around the same time?
09:40:28 >> Around the same time.
09:40:29 >>HARRY COHEN: So we'll figure it out and make sure we get
09:40:32 that date set before we adjourn for the summer recess.
09:40:35 >> And thank you for the commendation for the members.
09:40:40 We are one member short, but we are also two members that
09:40:43 are literally trying to consume a lot of information in a
09:40:49 short period of time, so it is a mammoth undertaking and
09:40:52 they are working very hard.
09:40:53 Thank you.
09:40:53 I will pass the word along.
09:40:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:40:57 We go to item number 5.
09:41:07 And I believe Mrs. Capin brought it up and it's a good plan.
09:41:10 If we could address item B first, which is the one that
09:41:13 comes up with some statistics and then go into the crux.
09:41:23 >> Oh, we don't have a microphone.
09:41:27 I'm sorry.
09:41:27 Where did it go?
09:41:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, ma'am.
09:41:30 We scare people by not having a mike.
09:41:33 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Planning and development.
09:41:34 Good morning.
09:41:37 These specifics, they were from the last time we actually
09:41:40 did this and it was carried over.
09:41:46 As of that date there were 1353 permit within the city and
09:41:55 so 1353 active permits in the city to. Break it down by
09:42:00 area there, were 112 active ones, and from the business
09:42:05 Channel District area, 40 along South Howard, 141 Ybor City,
09:42:10 again as of April 16th.
09:42:11 So there were 293 total on those three particular areas.
09:42:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm sorry, what?
09:42:18 >>CATHERINE COYLE: 293 just within those concentrated areas.
09:42:21 But 1353 active --
09:42:23 >>HARRY COHEN: Can you give us those numbers again?
09:42:29 >>CATHERINE COYLE: 1353 throughout the city.
09:42:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Can we have a copy of that?
09:42:35 I know you have given it to us before.
09:42:37 But if we just make a copy of that.
09:42:40 >>CATHERINE COYLE: These are my handwritten notes.
09:42:41 I'm sorry.
09:42:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If we can get somebody from the back.
09:42:44 Your handwriting is much better than mine and we appreciate
09:42:47 it very much.
09:42:47 >> Which is surprising because I can actually read my own
09:42:58 Because you asked for like a two-year time frame in the last
09:43:01 one, I took that two year time frame and one from April of
09:43:06 2011, almost two years actually.
09:43:09 And the second part of those notes that broke down annual
09:43:13 reporting, noncompliance letters, how many of those
09:43:16 locations have been cited for violations.
09:43:18 And then many different types of violations that they can be
09:43:23 cited for.
09:43:24 The annual reports come up obviously every year and I broke
09:43:26 it down by year, how many received letter of noncompliance,
09:43:29 how many received a second.
09:43:31 The second one is the one that's sent to council, because
09:43:34 they haven't either paid or filed, or filed properly.
09:43:38 The correct percentages.
09:43:39 We did go through a series on those annual reports.
09:43:46 After the first 31 days because everyone has to report by
09:43:48 January 31st.
09:43:50 There's a list of people, there are locations that didn't
09:43:54 file, or filed incorrectly.
09:43:55 That list, we want to flush out who is actually closed for
09:44:02 business, and we wind up them being posted.
09:44:05 They go a different enforcement route.
09:44:08 What I didn't give you were the numbers based on how many
09:44:10 are posted every year.
09:44:13 There are dozens and dozens every year.
09:44:17 Worry just starting that tracking in the database.
09:44:20 So I have to go back and look through basically every letter
09:44:22 we send to the state, but there are many every single year
09:44:29 that actually get notice of posting for the 60 days before
09:44:33 they go dry.
09:44:36 Within the last two years, there's also another set of
09:44:39 enforcement locations.
09:44:40 Those are locations that have permits.
09:44:43 They are not required to file annual reports or anything.
09:44:46 But there are locations that we investigate with TPD or fire
09:44:51 Over the last two years, there's been ten locations
09:44:54 specifically that we have taken a really close look at and
09:44:58 had investigations made.
09:45:00 There are three of those that received direct letters from
09:45:03 me saying that we believe there's a violation.
09:45:07 One of them actually did wind up in front of council and
09:45:11 that was suspended, and there's another one pending.
09:45:15 For suspension.
09:45:16 There's another one currently.
09:45:17 I can't tell you where the locations are but there's another
09:45:20 one currently under a dual investigation with the state,
09:45:23 because there's potentially a license problem and permit
09:45:27 We have a coordinate effort with ABC, fire marshal, code
09:45:30 enforcement, TPD, and through that process, we have
09:45:36 undercover surveillance and photos, and we go out and
09:45:39 measure the site to make sure they haven't expanded the
09:45:41 areas of alcohol haven't expanded.
09:45:44 There is one that was investigated just yesterday also that
09:45:48 we would go after that is not permitted, but is selling
09:45:52 So those fall into the AB enforcement world as well.
09:45:55 It just can't be calculated with the personals of people
09:45:58 that have permits, because it's just -- we have those
09:46:03 locations that we investigate every year as well.
09:46:06 There's not as many.
09:46:07 It's random.
09:46:09 But just really quickly, to go back, as of April 16th,
09:46:13 there was 1353.
09:46:18 That's permits.
09:46:20 Just to give you this for the audience as well.
09:46:30 Actively selling within the city or have the ability to
09:46:33 actively sell.
09:46:34 Those can include the ones that were licensed prior to 1945
09:46:38 that are still open and operating.
09:46:40 Those don't have a true permit, but they do have an approval
09:46:43 from the city to keep operating.
09:46:46 So those 1353.
09:46:49 And then these are the restaurants reporting numbers.
09:46:55 So in 2011, there were 91 noncompliance letters sent after
09:47:00 January 31st.
09:47:01 Three for noncompliance.
09:47:04 Ultimately, everyone came into compliance but three.
09:47:09 In 2012, there were 97 that were sent that letter, and they
09:47:13 are sent certified mail, more expensive registered mail they
09:47:18 have to sign for.
09:47:19 None were suspended because everyone came into compliance.
09:47:22 In 2013, 92 letters were signed.
09:47:25 And there are 20 pending transmittal fee right now.
09:47:30 So we get down to a lower number. It's just part of the
09:47:34 Once you send them to the clerk, and the clerk actually
09:47:36 sends out that additional letter, even though they have
09:47:38 gotten a couple of letters from us, being set for hearing on
09:47:42 X date, they tend to all come in with the exception of a
09:47:47 And those are the ones that wind up in front of you either
09:47:50 for suspension or whatever else happens.
09:47:53 But very few wind up in the suspension world because they
09:47:56 wind up complying.
09:48:00 That's pretty much it as far as numbers.
09:48:02 I didn't calculate the actual percentages because these
09:48:05 numbers are very fluid day to day.
09:48:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
09:48:08 Any comments by council?
09:48:14 Anyone in the audience care to speak on this item, B part of
09:48:30 >>MARGARET VIZZI: 213 South Sherill.
09:48:34 My comments, evidently, it saves the city quite a bit of
09:48:39 time to track all of.
09:48:40 This but those who don't do it signed or anything in any way
09:48:47 to that said to do it.
09:48:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We'll let Mrs. Coyle answer that.
09:48:56 >>MARGARET VIZZI: Well, follow up, make sure they do what
09:48:58 they are supposed to.
09:48:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Are they fined?
09:49:02 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Oh, no, it's not like the process where
09:49:05 you wind up in front of the magistrate.
09:49:07 It's something -- if any one of these if a true violation or
09:49:13 conviction is found or if we can build a good case we bring
09:49:16 to the you for suspension.
09:49:17 So their fine is not paying for us, it's essentially
09:49:20 shutting down which effects them in a different way.
09:49:26 But there is a fine for not filing your annual reports.
09:49:30 If you are a business location, and it's your first late
09:49:33 notice, your first having complied at that business at that
09:49:37 location it's a hundred dollars.
09:49:38 Every time after it is 500.
09:49:42 >>MARGARET VIZZI: I guess maybe I would suggest that council
09:49:44 consider doing something like that, because it is taking
09:49:47 staff time to do these things, that they could be doing
09:49:51 something else.
09:49:54 That's just my comment.
09:49:55 >>MARY MULHERN: My question was of Ms. Coyle when she was
09:50:01 up there.
09:50:01 I'm sorry I didn't think of this.
09:50:06 Between the time that they receive their noncompliance
09:50:11 letter and when you reinspect, how much time do they have to
09:50:14 come into compliance?
09:50:17 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The first window they have is from
09:50:18 January 1st to January 31st.
09:50:21 And if they file correctly and on time within that period,
09:50:25 then you are good to go.
09:50:27 There's no fine or anything.
09:50:30 In the mandates we have another 30 days beyond.
09:50:33 That so it just depends on leap year whether it's March
09:50:38 2nd or 3rd but they have another window of time, 30
09:50:41 days to file.
09:50:42 >>MARY MULHERN: So this is just for them to file the
09:50:45 >> Correctly.
09:50:47 >>MARY MULHERN: So this is just for the restaurants?
09:50:56 >>CATHERINE COYLE: 400 right now.
09:50:58 >>MARY MULHERN: So this doesn't have anything to do with
09:51:00 other citations for noncompliance based on the site plans,
09:51:09 you know.
09:51:12 >>CATHY COYLE: That's correct.
09:51:13 And we do track those.
09:51:14 And as I mentioned we have about ten locations over the last
09:51:18 two specific years that we have had investigations with TPD
09:51:22 or the fire marshal where we have actually, you know,
09:51:25 generated pictures or video, and we have actually gone out
09:51:28 and measured things, and documented things.
09:51:32 Several of those cases, there are two pending right now with
09:51:37 the state as well because we are trying to do enforcement
09:51:40 because there's a lighting problem and a permit problem.
09:51:43 Those are the things, I can't tell you the locations because
09:51:46 what happens with these cases, they don't go to code
09:51:50 They end up in front of you, to decide whether or not to
09:51:54 take it away.
09:51:54 Within the last two years, came before you, if you recall,
09:51:58 it was on Howard.
09:51:59 It was a nightclub.
09:52:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
09:52:02 So --
09:52:07 >>CATHERINE COYLE: There are ongoing investigations behind
09:52:08 the scenes.
09:52:09 Most of that information is held pretty tightly because we
09:52:11 are either waiting for something to come out, a judge's
09:52:14 decision on a conviction for certain things, or proving the
09:52:17 evidence either with the state or TPD.
09:52:19 So ultimately have a case to bring before you.
09:52:22 A lot of the time, over five or six years, in our group,
09:52:28 work group, there have been several places that we have
09:52:31 actually issued citations to, a write-out letter actually is
09:52:36 a citation, and we tell them we have evidence, I give them
09:52:40 sections of the code, I reference what it is that's been
09:52:42 done, either an arrest or something else that happened on
09:52:44 the property that is related to the criteria for revoking,
09:52:49 and usually what happens automatically is we are contacted,
09:52:53 they come in, they explain to us why they are not in
09:52:56 violation, and we deal with it.
09:52:59 We have had a couple places that have had tenants, that they
09:53:03 were actually trying to evict.
09:53:05 So having our investigation helped get rid of the bad
09:53:09 Usually the operator owner is the operator.
09:53:13 It's the tenant.
09:53:14 So where you wind up working hand in hand sometimes with the
09:53:17 property owners, and then the problem is gone at that point.
09:53:22 So it never actually winds up in front of you.
09:53:28 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Ms. Coyle, the recording, the numbers down
09:53:37 there pertain to restaurants?
09:53:42 >>CATHERINE COYLE: These numbers, yes, these are the annual
09:53:45 And either a special restaurant, a restaurant, an R zoning,
09:53:48 or you are someone that offers a condition to council to
09:53:53 report annually.
09:53:58 I put restaurant for my own terminology.
09:54:04 It's restaurant, the old R zoning from the zoning process or
09:54:08 someone that actually has within their ordinance the
09:54:11 agreement, the conditions to actually report annually.
09:54:19 It's a condition they would have offered us.
09:54:22 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I'm trying to understand these numbers.
09:54:24 So what we have here, which you presented us, is how many
09:54:37 are there that do not have to report annually?
09:54:40 Only those three?
09:54:45 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No.
09:54:45 The question that was asked of me is how many citation
09:54:49 versus we issued.
09:54:49 We gave you numbers he related to the citations.
09:54:52 The first number 1353 for the active permits, there are say
09:54:59 It's around 350 or so restaurants reporting requirements.
09:55:04 There are about a thousand --
09:55:07 >>YVONNE CAPIN: The citations were presented because they
09:55:11 didn't report?
09:55:14 >>CATHERINE COYLE: They didn't file on time.
09:55:18 >>YVONNE CAPIN: They didn't file on time.
09:55:19 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Or they didn't file the correct
09:55:21 Or they showed --
09:55:24 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Percentages pertaining to restaurants.
09:55:26 What about bars?
09:55:28 >>CATHERINE COYLE: They don't have to report.
09:55:31 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you for that.
09:55:32 Thank you for getting there.
09:55:33 So these numbers pertain to the ones that are required to
09:55:40 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That's correct.
09:55:41 >>YVONNE CAPIN: What I would like to know is how many of
09:55:44 these are not required to report, 1353.
09:55:47 >>CATHERINE COYLE: About a thousand.
09:55:49 >>YVONNE CAPIN: About a thousand.
09:55:49 That's what I thought it was.
09:55:51 Thank you.
09:55:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez.
09:55:53 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Quick question.
09:55:55 Because you listed those three years in terms of the
09:55:58 restaurant reporting, and they seem to have the same number,
09:56:05 791, 92, just looking through it, do we have a compliance
09:56:13 issue with the same specific restaurants that are out there?
09:56:18 >>CATHERINE COYLE: A fair number of them are incorrectly or
09:56:24 not filed continually.
09:56:25 >>MIKE SUAREZ: My question is, is it the same ones
09:56:29 Coyle ow Coyle the same ones, yes.
09:56:32 >>MIKE SUAREZ: So they don't know how to comply each and he
09:56:35 have year --
09:56:36 >> A lot of these places are corporate, out of other states,
09:56:40 and the manager is not filing the corporate letter.
09:56:44 We send a letter to the license holder or property owner and
09:56:48 the business operator.
09:56:49 We send out three letters to people that they are
09:56:56 It's different every year.
09:56:57 You will get one of the big corporate restaurant chains
09:57:00 where one manager, even though they are all corporate
09:57:03 throughout the city, one of the locations, managers, if they
09:57:11 do it every time they do it right, and another manager has
09:57:14 just changed or whatever else, and the corporate person just
09:57:17 doesn't pay attention.
09:57:19 >>MIKE SUAREZ: The reason I am asking, it looks like if you
09:57:21 are talking about 350 or so, and it's between a quarter and
09:57:26 a third that are always the same, probably always the same
09:57:29 one, because it makes sense that it would always be about
09:57:32 that amount that would be noncompliant.
09:57:36 It doesn't seem like it's churning through and having a new
09:57:40 set of 90 some that are there, the same one.
09:57:42 We may want to look at how we do that process, and how we
09:57:46 train these folks and maybe even we want them to comply so
09:57:50 that we don't have so much fat time on the back end and look
09:57:55 at the -- you know, because once you get to the suspension
09:57:58 part of it becomes a big thing to deal with, and may even
09:58:02 want to deal with talking to some other representative.
09:58:06 Sometimes they are lawyers that may have already presented
09:58:09 their land use case to us, maybe reach out to those folks.
09:58:13 There's got to be a way to kind of reach out to some of
09:58:16 these clients because we don't want to see this much
09:58:19 noncompliance each and every year.
09:58:21 So --
09:58:23 >>CATHERINE COYLE: We do have them sign an affidavit when it
09:58:25 comes for a new sign-up.
09:58:28 We have them sign affidavit with the criteria, and our
09:58:30 reporting affidavit.
09:58:31 And we keep that on file.
09:58:33 We give them a copy and it's notarized that they are
09:58:36 accepting what the conditions are.
09:58:37 We also send, in December, we send a two-toned postcard.
09:58:43 We are not actually required to put them on notice to
09:58:46 remember to report.
09:58:47 But we do send them a very large postcard reminding them of
09:58:50 their exact days, and we get four or five different ways to
09:58:54 >>MIKE SUAREZ: We are doing all those things and it's still
09:58:57 not be --
09:59:00 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I know, I know. Than I think the same
09:59:02 results a few years back in the one year that we didn't send
09:59:06 the postcard, because the year like the entire Puget for us
09:59:10 was cut.
09:59:11 So we had virtually the same number.
09:59:14 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Looking at some other ways.
09:59:20 Thank you, Mr. Chair.
09:59:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Montelione.
09:59:22 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I think Mr. Suarez' point, education is
09:59:27 So with no education on how a lot of these are not based
09:59:36 here, being filed by corporate offices in other states, they
09:59:39 are not educated to our process, and they probably have to
09:59:41 be educated through the process in the entire union.
09:59:47 So I can see where, you know, there are folks who are coming
09:59:51 in when they are issued a permit and signing that affidavit
09:59:53 are not the same people who are required every year by their
09:59:57 jobs to file these reports.
09:59:59 So that may be where some of the issue is coming in.
10:00:02 So a lot of folks hire a consultant to the file the initial
10:00:06 paperwork, and then, you know, they are not the ones who are
10:00:09 going to be doing it every year.
10:00:11 But what I see in these numbers, roughly how many square
10:00:15 miles is the City of Tampa?
10:00:18 >> 162, 167, something like that.
10:00:20 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So about 167 square miles, we have
10:00:25 roughly 860 active permits that are not in the CBD, South
10:00:35 Howard or Ybor.
10:00:37 I did the math.
10:00:37 >> Reporting?
10:00:41 >>LISA MONTELIONE: The first group of the 1353.
10:00:44 So in looking at the numbers of going to the restaurants
10:00:50 reporting requirements, I mean, it seems like relatively
10:00:54 small numbers of those who end up noncompliant, but a number
10:01:00 of cases that we brought, like you said, are relatively
10:01:05 So I think, chair Miranda was the one who asked you those
10:01:10 questions, and for the specifics, because it doesn't look
10:01:17 like to me, other individual establishments that we received
10:01:21 complaints from, or about, that there's a big problem here.
10:01:27 It seems that mostly our businesses, which generally
10:01:31 speaking are small businesses were in the restaurant
10:01:34 business or the bar business, establishment, they have small
10:01:38 staff, limited ownership, on the than the corporate ones,
10:01:46 are doing what?
10:01:48 >> And there's 1010, 15 locations throughout the city that
10:01:53 are the real repeated problems.
10:01:56 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Out of all of these businesses, I mean,
10:02:05 is it statistically significant that we have problems?
10:02:10 >> I guess comparing numbers to numbers, but we do spend a
10:02:12 lot of time.
10:02:20 >>LISA MONTELIONE: The small amount that cause the most
10:02:25 I'm sorry.
10:02:25 >>CATHERINE COYLE: If we have the same level of issues of
10:02:29 all 1300 --
10:02:34 >> There would be chaos.
10:02:38 But like I said, it's the relatively small number of bad
10:02:41 actors that are causing the problems.
10:02:43 And for the most part, it seems like the system is working.
10:02:47 Maybe a little more education as Mr. Suarez pointed out on
10:02:50 how the filing process works so that you spend less time
10:02:55 trying to chase downs the ones that are filed and help them
10:02:58 to correctly submit the applications, and maybe have a
10:03:03 little more staff, a little more time to make that happen.
10:03:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:03:12 Mr. Cohen?
10:03:14 >>HARRY COHEN: I understand your train of thought with
10:03:16 But I think there's one question that's in the middle still
10:03:21 needs to be inserted into it.
10:03:23 Of this 20 or 25 problem children or 13 or whatever the
10:03:28 number is, 10, if we have only closed down one or two in the
10:03:36 last three or four years, is it that difficult to make a
10:03:42 case against the 10 or 13 or 20 that we can only get to 2?
10:03:47 Because if that's the case, the matter is a problem.
10:03:52 I agree with Councilwoman Montelione that it would appear
10:03:55 that the vast majority of establishments in the city are
10:04:00 compliant, with the universe of noncompliant, are we at all
10:04:05 effective in dealing with them or are we constantly spinning
10:04:09 our wheels going around in circles?
10:04:12 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I think we have had locations that have
10:04:19 issues --
10:04:21 >>HARRY COHEN: That's another issue.
10:04:22 I don't want to get into that.
10:04:24 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No, but there are a couple of locations
10:04:27 that had or have noise issues --
10:04:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There's an active lawsuit with the city
10:04:33 about noise.
10:04:34 >>PETE COWELL: I understand.
10:04:35 In general, yes.
10:04:36 There are times when a place is perceived to be an issue and
10:04:41 we do evaluate what the approval is and what all the rules
10:04:44 and regulations are for it.
10:04:45 There are some of those criteria for suspension or
10:04:48 revocation where we actually need a conviction.
10:04:52 And that can be someone pleading no contest.
10:04:54 We also have other things that could be suspended for
10:04:59 And those violations are generally related to the conditions
10:05:04 for the sale of alcohol.
10:05:05 So they actually have to do something specifically related
10:05:07 to what it was that you approved based on the alcohol.
10:05:12 If there are other cases or site issues, we may not bring an
10:05:16 alcohol case.
10:05:17 We may go after a different issue.
10:05:19 Like if they tear down a tree they go through a different
10:05:26 But in general some of the things are still pending.
10:05:28 Some of the things that we have to wait for, like
10:05:31 convictions, we have to wait for what happens in the court
10:05:33 as well before we can bring them.
10:05:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Capin, then Mrs. Montelione.
10:05:38 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
10:05:43 I think Mrs. Coyle did a good job of answering the question.
10:05:48 Beyond that, though, it's a mix of what we see.
10:05:50 It is a small number.
10:05:52 They do take a great deal of time.
10:05:54 Some of the issues that we have deal with conditions.
10:06:00 So when people come and say, oh, we agreed to do that,
10:06:03 sometimes you say that will be an enforcement issue.
10:06:07 And they do that sometimes because they can see it coming
10:06:10 and sometimes because they looked at that and said that is
10:06:12 going to be a difficult case to bring.
10:06:14 Most of the time what happens is we evaluate the case, and
10:06:18 most of the cases, you know, we can bring forward.
10:06:21 If it's something that someone might not have been aware of
10:06:24 and then immediately become compliant, that case may be
10:06:29 If it's a case where we notified them of the problems, they
10:06:32 come into compliance, we check the hearing, then we may
10:06:35 bring that to you anyway, not necessarily, you know, seeking
10:06:39 a punitive punishment at that point, but so it depends upon
10:06:44 the case.
10:06:45 I think for the most part we are able to build the cases.
10:06:48 But again, it is also something that's an issue to think
10:06:52 about when you are planting permits for a land use permit
10:06:55 that run was the land and you put operational on it like you
10:07:00 were talking about with the restaurant reporting.
10:07:02 Those things the business has to do.
10:07:05 The business will continually turn over, and you have got
10:07:07 these conditions that run with the land use permit as
10:07:09 opposed to permits that have to be filed every year for the
10:07:15 business directly -- or are directly tied to the business.
10:07:19 If the businesses have to comply with this because it's part
10:07:21 of the land use permit but it's not directly a land use
10:07:25 permit, sometimes we have to educate them every year because
10:07:27 the businesses turn over.
10:07:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Capin and Ms. Montelione.
10:07:36 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
10:07:39 Cathy -- Ms. Coyle, I'm sorry.
10:07:42 You can call me Yolie.
10:07:45 Out of about a thousand we can reduce that.
10:07:49 In there are grocery stores.
10:07:51 >> And convenience stores and Walgreen's and whatever else.
10:07:54 >> And do we have in that 10 or 15 any grocery stores, or
10:07:59 supermarkets involved?
10:08:01 >> No.
10:08:01 >> So what would be the number when we take out grocery
10:08:05 stores and convenience stores out of that 1,000?
10:08:10 Do we know?
10:08:12 >> I can have it run if you want me to. You can break it
10:08:15 down a little more for you.
10:08:17 >> That's going to bring it even lower.
10:08:20 >> My main concern is the amount of time and dollars that
10:08:25 are spent on the 10 or 15 or 20 problems.
10:08:34 I just heard a description from our legal on that process,
10:08:39 and the amount of money and time that is spent for 10 or 15
10:08:46 or 20.
10:08:46 I would imagine that the industry itself would want to help
10:08:55 to eliminate the bad actors, because they cost -- I would
10:09:04 like to see that number.
10:09:06 I would like to see the amount of money that is spent in
10:09:09 time and dollars to pursue these 10 or 15.
10:09:14 And granted, this is very true.
10:09:18 We are talking whatever, 99% are complying, and that's what
10:09:22 we expect.
10:09:23 That's why we allow the permit, because we assume that
10:09:28 everybody is going to follow the law.
10:09:31 There's always a few, and it costs a lot of money.
10:09:34 Therefore, when I look at it -- and this than is a workshop.
10:09:37 And I'm sorry that we didn't have a task force to really
10:09:42 look at this, because if we really wanted to study it,
10:09:45 that's what we would have done.
10:09:46 We would have brought in the industry, would have brought in
10:09:49 stakeholders, attorneys, to come in, the administration to
10:09:54 come in and really look at this and see what is it costing
10:09:57 us to pursue these 10 or 15?
10:10:00 So that number, I would like to know that number, the
10:10:07 restaurants -- I mean not the restaurants.
10:10:09 The grocery stores, so that we know the numbers that we are
10:10:13 talking about that do not have to report.
10:10:20 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I can make a phone call and have it
10:10:21 broken down by the type that's issued and then give you the
10:10:27 If it's a restaurant, if it's shoppers' goods, if it's
10:10:30 convenience store.
10:10:31 I can break them down for you.
10:10:34 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Because I think it's very important to get
10:10:35 that information to us for us to continue along this line.
10:10:41 And if we think that there is no problem in this city at
10:10:45 all, and that the dollars spent to pursue these 10 or 15 is
10:10:50 really not that much, then we don't need to look at this
10:10:57 Thank you very much.
10:10:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:10:58 Mrs. Montelione.
10:10:59 >>LISA MONTELIONE: The person we haven't heard from yet
10:11:02 is -- you're on the front line.
10:11:09 And dealing with -- I'm sorry?
10:11:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is that a new program, the front line?
10:11:18 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Dateline.
10:11:19 >> Good morning.
10:11:23 John -- Tampa Police Department.
10:11:24 And like anything, 10% of bad actors, traffic, burglary,
10:11:30 It's a very small percentage.
10:11:32 We talk about the calls.
10:11:34 We have calls, we always have 10 percenters.
10:11:39 What happens is the ones I do attack, the ones I go after,
10:11:42 the worst of the worst.
10:11:43 A lot of times, the way I work is, either close down, shut
10:11:49 down, and we are done with them, or kind of like any normal
10:11:54 person, gets a traffic ticket.
10:11:55 All of a sudden you are driving, gets real good for about 30
10:11:59 to 90 days and then back to speeding again, hit you with
10:12:02 another ticket, driving again, good for 30 to 90. Same with
10:12:07 the actors out there selling alcohol.
10:12:09 You investigate them.
10:12:10 They are good players for about a year.
10:12:12 And of a sudden, they get new managers, you educate them
10:12:16 with a ticket with a citation or arrest, good actors for
10:12:20 another year.
10:12:21 That's where you are getting the over and over 10
10:12:25 I don't know if there's a way to combat that.
10:12:29 >>LISA MONTELIONE: You read my mind.
10:12:30 Generally speaking, in police work like you said, it's
10:12:33 always going to be 10% no matter what you do, typically
10:12:38 across the country.
10:12:39 >> Through my career.
10:12:45 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And I think any criminal justice
10:12:47 classroom you are going to hear the same thing.
10:12:50 Something that is statistically significant that you are
10:12:52 always going to have a certain percentage that don't comply.
10:12:56 Which no matter what.
10:12:58 Even --
10:13:01 >> And time to get out there.
10:13:02 Do surveillance.
10:13:04 Bring the abatement board in front of you guys.
10:13:07 You know, yeah.
10:13:09 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And report the regulations.
10:13:13 >> It's part of business of running the city.
10:13:16 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And a good point, sometimes we have a
10:13:20 way to compensate for that cost and sometimes we don't.
10:13:22 So sometimes the amount of money we charge for an
10:13:26 application be fee by the state law, we are only allowed to
10:13:32 charge the amount of money to process that fee. In other
10:13:37 places across the country, they build in a certain amount of
10:13:46 overhead in that fee knowing they are going to use that
10:13:49 amount of money to enforce regulations for those who are
10:13:53 But we don't have that luxury in the State of Florida
10:13:55 because we are only regulating the amount of money, more or
10:13:59 less, that permits.
10:14:04 >> We recently had a bad actor, that I think with will be
10:14:11 closing down within a year or two.
10:14:12 The state jumped in, and had to pay a $10,000 fine.
10:14:21 So, I mean, we hit them in the pocketbook but it's usually a
10:14:27 joint effort.
10:14:27 The state will get their fee.
10:14:29 We'll do our fee.
10:14:30 Sometimes we do recover some costs.
10:14:31 >> And I know there was some discussion about the amount of
10:14:35 assistance that we were receiving from the state in
10:14:40 enforcing the alcoholic beverage.
10:14:43 Has it gotten better?
10:14:45 Is it being looked at?
10:14:46 Because I had a discussion with some with the office not too
10:14:54 long ago and they said they would be happy to after the
10:14:57 summer, after the session ended -- I shouldn't say die -- to
10:15:04 go ahead and start looking at ways they could improve their
10:15:07 investigations and their relationship.
10:15:12 >> Alcohol and beverage is always there for me when I called
10:15:17 The undercover officers, task force, and the state has been
10:15:25 helpful as far as I'm concerned with the City of Tampa.
10:15:28 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Is there any recommendation that you
10:15:30 would have for us on those 10 to 13 to try to define -- defy
10:15:39 the odds -- is there any specific help that we can give you
10:15:43 to address those 10 to 15 that continually break the rules?
10:15:52 >> I'm one person who does the alcohol licensing.
10:15:58 And the chief's office, helps us with the investigation.
10:16:07 I'm here sometimes.
10:16:08 It gets kind of lost in the paperwork sometimes.
10:16:11 The processes get long.
10:16:12 You have to wait for convictions because part of charging
10:16:15 them is being able to evict them, or give them due process.
10:16:20 At the time constraints are usually the court system.
10:16:22 And that's with everything.
10:16:27 If there was a magic way to speed things up I wish I could
10:16:32 find it.
10:16:32 We have to work within the system.
10:16:34 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I was out with you on Fowler Avenue on a
10:16:38 drinking raid, and to see the numbers of police cars,
10:16:41 undercover units, undercover officers, I know you hand
10:16:47 picked a really young-looking one.
10:16:50 And it's an impressive operation.
10:16:52 It has to be about 40 people out there that night.
10:16:54 >> That's a good example.
10:16:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: It was a sight.
10:17:00 I'll tell you that.
10:17:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:17:02 Mrs. Mulhern.
10:17:02 >>MARY MULHERN: I was reminded in my discussion with Mrs.
10:17:07 Coyle, and Ms. Coyle, I might need you to reconfirm this,
10:17:11 but I asked about the permitting fee.
10:17:13 And this goes to Ms. Vizzi's question.
10:17:18 The annual fee is $50.
10:17:21 Is that right?
10:17:23 You told me something.
10:17:28 >>CATHERINE COYLE: We were on part A of the discussion.
10:17:29 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, this applies to that.
10:17:34 When you told me it was $50, I thought, well, that's
10:17:38 tenderings maybe.
10:17:43 So it's not really a big burden for people, you know, if we
10:17:50 wanted to make up some of our cost ifs we raise that fee a
10:17:54 little bit and they have to pay $50 a year.
10:17:57 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No, not to be confused.
10:17:59 $50 is related to part A of the discussion which was the
10:18:02 question about what potentially it would cost for the
10:18:05 late-night permit.
10:18:09 That number.
10:18:10 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, I see.
10:18:17 >>CATHERINE COYLE: You have to pay to file.
10:18:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say something here.
10:18:21 It's complicated and it's not complicated.
10:18:24 I like to speak to both officer Miller and Ms. Coyle.
10:18:28 When you are looking at the backup on the AB restaurant
10:18:32 reporting, things have changed.
10:18:35 They don't come here anymore like they used to, between
10:18:39 January and January.
10:18:39 The line would be all the way down here, all the way back
10:18:42 and halfway 30 or 40 of them.
10:18:45 And we were here each one individually, and it was like
10:18:49 let's make a deal.
10:18:50 People with checks.
10:18:52 Every time, you know, there's one thing that I remember, my
10:18:58 CPA forgot to do it.
10:18:59 I never met the CPA because I don't know if there was a CPA.
10:19:03 Never have.
10:19:03 But it used to be all the way around and we make a deal, and
10:19:08 it was much more than 10 or 15 of them.
10:19:12 You were here.
10:19:17 Mayor Buckhorn was here.
10:19:19 And on the front side, if we are looking at costs, what is
10:19:23 the upfront cost to the city for the application when they
10:19:28 come and apply?
10:19:31 When the actual applicant wants to open up one of these
10:19:34 establishments, whether it's a restaurant or whatever.
10:19:37 Has that changed?
10:19:38 Has the police department changed?
10:19:40 In other words, all this is part of an act, not one part
10:19:44 that we are looking at.
10:19:45 It much bigger than what it is.
10:19:47 But when I look at the reviews, and these are facts, I
10:19:51 assume, I assume they are correct, it's really dwindled down
10:19:58 than, I guarantee you that's more IRS statements that go out
10:20:08 that are not reported, late for reporting, mistakes on them,
10:20:14 than any fact you have given me today, or any other part of
10:20:16 the city, including code enforcement, including anything we
10:20:20 do, including compliance on your rental certificates.
10:20:25 I guarantee you will find more than 4%.
10:20:28 And that's what you are looking at 3% versus 91.
10:20:31 And that's my opinion it, that this is equal to or less than
10:20:35 any other department in the city.
10:20:38 And I'm just making an assumption on my part because the
10:20:40 numbers, when you look at 12, there's nada, zero, maybe one
10:20:46 that complies.
10:20:47 And I remember those years when they used to come here, when
10:20:50 they did not comply, and you sent the letter out you were
10:20:55 going to close, but we also used to do something that we
10:20:57 don't do anymore, I don't believe.
10:20:59 We used to go audit.
10:21:01 Do we still audit?
10:21:06 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Speaking about the text amendment or just
10:21:07 having text amendments that you all moved forward that
10:21:09 actually they will be required to submit them T commercial
10:21:13 insurance audit.
10:21:16 It's actually already done.
10:21:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We used to have had an auditor go check
10:21:20 at random these places to make sure that the 49/51 was a
10:21:30 pretty true figure.
10:21:30 And now we don't see that.
10:21:32 We do a different way of doing it.
10:21:34 And I'm glad that Mr. Suarez brought that up.
10:21:37 We are going to add some text to the conversation that we
10:21:39 are having here.
10:21:40 So what I am saying is that this is an area that if the rest
10:21:46 of the city was run this way, I think we would be in pretty
10:21:50 good shape, from what I see here.
10:21:52 Only on this paper.
10:21:55 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I counted them myself.
10:21:56 I went through each file.
10:21:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
10:21:58 Any other council members?
10:21:59 Now we go back to the public next.
10:22:03 >> Pete Johnson, 510 Harrison street.
10:22:09 I'm still here.
10:22:12 This is a great report.
10:22:14 I'm sorry, I have a lot of respect for this woman.
10:22:16 And I hear a lot of people give her a lot of compliments in
10:22:21 the neighborhood.
10:22:25 We are still discussing here a noncompliance problem.
10:22:31 Council and the State of Florida has given this city every
10:22:34 legal right to hold these people's properties accountable.
10:22:43 It the same thing as code enforcement.
10:22:46 Code enforcement is many times greater than 91.
10:22:51 91 is nothing compared to exceed enforcement.
10:22:54 But the fact that we don't use the state statute or the city
10:22:57 ordinance or even have documentation of why we don't use it
10:23:08 creates a problem.
10:23:08 You give them the tools, we don't use it.
10:23:17 And why?
10:23:18 There's no reason why we don't use the legal magic that we
10:23:22 have to improve quality of life, not only in the restaurants
10:23:27 but also in the bars, in our neighborhoods, everything.
10:23:33 It is totally beyond me.
10:23:35 Thank you.
10:23:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:23:36 Next, please.
10:23:37 >> I live at 1408 east canner my concern, we have a
10:23:52 neighborhood that's it getting real popular for restaurant
10:23:55 and bars, and looking at what happened on South Howard, and
10:23:59 especially because how close we are to residential in our
10:24:06 We are concerned that there's not the enforcement, and we
10:24:10 are concerned that sometimes, been here long enough I
10:24:16 watched what happened in Ybor City where every wet zoning
10:24:19 request that came down the pike got approved.
10:24:21 And maybe what we need is something that says you can only
10:24:26 have a certain percentage of wet zoning in an area
10:24:29 especially if there's a problem with enforcing it.
10:24:32 And I know that the comment was made, well, throws only ten
10:24:36 or whatever.
10:24:37 But if one of those ten is behind your house or block from
10:24:41 your house, it's the only problem that matters.
10:24:44 Even if the rest of the city is calm, and cool, and that's
10:24:48 no problem anyplace else, and that's what we are concerned
10:24:53 about is that they be enforced especially what's going on in
10:24:57 our neighborhood and some requests that I know are coming.
10:24:59 Thank you very much.
10:25:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If thank you very much.
10:25:02 Next, please.
10:25:03 >> I'm Ellen Snelling, the chair of Tampa Alcohol Coalition.
10:25:09 And I wanted to comment on what detective Miller was talking
10:25:13 about, and ten problem establishments that are known.
10:25:18 And the amount of time that it might take to actually get
10:25:22 the enforcement.
10:25:23 I think still to keep in mind the idea of a business permit,
10:25:27 not something that you would have to go through AB&T or go
10:25:31 through the court system to enforce but something you can
10:25:33 hold them more accountable on a quicker basis if that's
10:25:37 That's one idea.
10:25:38 The other is restaurants.
10:25:39 A lot of the restaurants are not special restaurants in the
10:25:46 Lots of them are the other type.
10:25:48 And Chairman Miranda mentioned the auditing, when they turn
10:25:52 in the paperwork in January, they have figures on there, but
10:25:56 how do you know that that's correct?
10:25:58 And I know you are going to have an amendment with insurance
10:26:01 information, but still, who is really going out there and
10:26:04 checking that these figures are correct?
10:26:07 Because I think the idea of a restaurant, and becomes a bar
10:26:10 at night, is a huge issue, has a bigs impact on the
10:26:14 And they probably run very close to the 51/49.
10:26:18 So I think they need to be held accountable for that and
10:26:21 more than just something on a piece of paper.
10:26:24 If there's some system to work in, even when they get the
10:26:27 restaurant permit that they pay a little extra fee to have
10:26:30 an audit done.
10:26:31 On a random basis like you mentioned before.
10:26:36 As far as enforcement, when you have 1300-plus alcohol
10:26:42 establishments, and you expect your local law enforcement
10:26:48 which would be Tampa Police Department, or alcoholic
10:26:50 beverage and tobacco, it's really hard to check on these
10:26:54 during the course of a year.
10:26:55 They generally respond to problems.
10:26:56 And at the Tampa alcohol coalition we have the division of
10:27:03 alcohol and tobacco, and they tell me their four agents for
10:27:08 Hillsborough County.
10:27:08 So just imagine throws 3,000 alcohol outlets countywide.
10:27:13 You have four agents.
10:27:14 And they do an awesome job.
10:27:16 They will help out anyone who needs their help, but they
10:27:20 cannot be proactive as they would like to be because it is
10:27:23 alcoholic beverage and tobacco, and I understand they also
10:27:27 do illegal drugs.
10:27:29 They have had a lot of problems, believe it or not,
10:27:31 moonshine lately, so they have other things to do.
10:27:34 I just want to bring that out that they can't be act
10:27:37 proactive as they would like.
10:27:39 The last thing I just want to state, Councilman Reddick for
10:27:43 his work on the open house party type situations within the
10:27:46 city, and he's really done a great job of getting everyone
10:27:50 together and the University of Tampa, the neighborhood, the
10:27:54 businesses, and we got this kind of showcase where he's done
10:27:57 at university of Tampa last week, a lot of universities
10:28:01 across the state came to hear how Tampa has handled these
10:28:04 open parties.
10:28:05 I want to thank you for that.
10:28:06 (Bell sounds).
10:28:10 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I wanted to answer part of what you said
10:28:12 about the insurance audit.
10:28:14 Here is why it's an important type amendment for us.
10:28:17 It's not just a piece of paper that they have to fill out.
10:28:20 Once it's reported to the insurance company, the insurance
10:28:22 company will bill them for them not being -- excuse me, they
10:28:26 will bill them out of their insurance program for not being
10:28:28 a restaurant.
10:28:29 What that means is all those vendors that they have to do
10:28:32 business with that require an insurance certificate will
10:28:36 want to know why don't they have insurance?
10:28:38 They won't do anything with them anymore.
10:28:41 It is a chain of causation that will make that bad actor no
10:28:46 longer be a restaurant and have to become a bar.
10:28:49 They will have to be charged more by the insurance company.
10:28:52 If they are not really a restaurant, they don't want to be a
10:28:54 bar because it's going to cost them a lot more money.
10:28:56 So there's real money out of their pocket.
10:28:58 It is not just an empty gesture on our part.
10:29:01 I just want to make sure you understood how that worked.
10:29:03 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Capin.
10:29:07 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I'll add to that.
10:29:08 And just remember that it should the operation fudge on the
10:29:13 numbers that they turn into the insurance company, if
10:29:19 anything happens here, they will not collect on their
10:29:26 When you talk about enforcement, look at the insurance
10:29:32 And so if they fudge on those numbers, and anything happens
10:29:35 to them, they are not going to collect from the insurance
10:29:38 company anything.
10:29:41 So just wanted to add.
10:29:43 That thank you for your comments, Councilman.
10:29:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Next, please.
10:29:50 >> I'm ed, Ed Tillou, Sulphur Springs.
10:29:53 But Hyde Park, South Howard, and spend time in Ybor City,
10:30:03 but, you know, have a focus on this issue.
10:30:07 One of my more minor focuses
10:30:11 A little story about this place I spoke about, the deck.
10:30:17 It convinces me there's an underground.
10:30:19 Throws an underground in the alcoholic beverage industry,
10:30:22 we'll say.
10:30:26 One of the bus drivers new him and went there from time to
10:30:30 time, one of the Hart drivers, and he told me that the guy
10:30:35 had his rent increased by $200 a month, and he couldn't
10:30:40 So he went out of business.
10:30:42 And that's kind of sad because, you know, he was a little
10:30:45 guy trying to make a living from selling pizza and beer.
10:30:49 And the problem was that in catering to his clientele, he
10:30:58 would from time to time get loud mouths, and the place
10:31:02 wasn't a pain in the neck problem most of the time.
10:31:06 It was just now and then when you have four or five of these
10:31:09 loud mouths coming in and bouncing off of each other.
10:31:12 And I saw the same thing happen to another place the Yard of
10:31:17 The Yard of Ale is never a problem.
10:31:19 But one time I went by and there were three or four of these
10:31:22 loud mouths bouncing off of each other.
10:31:24 So you have got noise problems.
10:31:26 And it's a static noise problem.
10:31:28 So how are we ever going to deal with vehicular noise, I
10:31:32 don't know.
10:31:33 This is a place I think that bears on this.
10:31:36 This is four corners, and it's way far out.
10:31:40 Colorado, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico.
10:31:43 But think --
10:31:50 >> Not Nevada.
10:31:52 >> And this is why I think this issue comes up
10:31:55 I think just about everybody on this board lives in South
10:31:59 Somehow, the districts come together, and you have got four
10:32:05 corners, and that's why you have a noise situation out of
10:32:09 control in Sulphur Springs, and you also to a certain
10:32:14 extent, you have it in West Tampa.
10:32:16 The people come from here and talk about East Tampa.
10:32:21 And, I mean, these are places with serious noise problems.
10:32:25 I think serious enough that they are impacting the real
10:32:28 estate market.
10:32:29 So the thing is, and this is on item 7 through 9 more than
10:32:35 6, but 4, 5, but it does bear out objective criteria.
10:32:43 I thought the legal department was remiss.
10:32:45 And then they came in and they spoke about this, the board
10:32:49 is not using objective criteria. And in the paper something
10:32:53 about decibels on the noise problem.
10:32:54 (Bell sounds)
10:32:55 And somebody from here was talking about it.
10:32:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:32:58 Next, please.
10:32:59 Next, please.
10:33:00 Next, please.
10:33:00 >> 14th amendment.
10:33:02 >> Teresa Miller.
10:33:08 I have been coming to these meetings on and off.
10:33:11 And I guess I'm a little confused.
10:33:16 If you break the law there's penalties.
10:33:18 And it sound like to be me that we are not giving our police
10:33:21 force what they need.
10:33:23 They have too much red tape to go through to close these
10:33:26 places down.
10:33:27 The police office that was just here that got that award, he
10:33:32 made some changes.
10:33:33 And he picked a few of those kid and showed the other kids
10:33:36 this is what's going to happen.
10:33:37 We need to do this with the bars and shut some of them down
10:33:41 and show the other bars if you don't come into compliance
10:33:45 with our laws, then you are going to be shut down.
10:33:48 You don't need any more laws on the books.
10:33:51 We need to enforce the ones we have.
10:33:53 And your comment about only 10% of the facilities are, you
10:33:58 know, a problem.
10:34:01 And the other City Council, the other Tampa groups, this
10:34:11 involves people's lives and safety.
10:34:15 If 10% of the people are getting watering on days they
10:34:21 shouldn't, the next time you get a hefty fee.
10:34:25 Those far different than 10% of people who aren't coming
10:34:28 into compliance with our bars.
10:34:30 Lives are being involved in that.
10:34:32 You have an increase in underage drink.
10:34:34 You have many people leaving these bars who are impaired and
10:34:37 on our roads.
10:34:38 And we really need to give the police what they need to
10:34:42 enforce the existing laws, and get those bars shut down and
10:34:49 the others will quickly come into compliance.
10:34:52 So I don't know how I can help as a concerned partner or
10:34:55 citizen, but something needs to be done.
10:34:57 And we need to make some decision and move forward.
10:35:02 On the problem of what we were trying to do last year, with
10:35:07 that new ordinance, or what was that, not ordinance, but the
10:35:15 new -- what was that, Ellen, the certificate?
10:35:21 The permit?
10:35:23 Part of that was, the restaurants didn't really understand
10:35:28 the bars what that would involve, that really would help
10:35:31 So whatever you come up with, if we could communicate to the
10:35:34 restaurants and bars it's going to help them, I think they
10:35:37 would get on board with changes that need to be made, if you
10:35:41 are going to make changes, because they seem to
10:35:45 misunderstand that it was to really help them and keep this
10:35:49 community safe and draw more people to Tampa than send them
10:35:54 Thank you.
10:35:54 I hope something gets accomplished in this area.
10:35:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:35:57 Mrs. Mulhern.
10:35:58 >>MARY MULHERN: We are going to be discussing that late
10:36:01 night permit next.
10:36:02 We just did B before A.
10:36:04 But that's A.
10:36:05 So we will be discussing that.
10:36:07 But with regard to B, if other council members have been
10:36:14 talking about it -- I don't know if people are in favor of
10:36:16 it, but I would be in favor of reinstating the auditing on
10:36:23 the restaurants, like Chairman Miranda said we used to do.
10:36:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else in the public?
10:36:32 Oh, Mr. Reddick.
10:36:33 I'm sorry.
10:36:34 He's the one that's kind enough to stay very quiet until
10:36:38 everything was brought into focus.
10:36:40 [ Laughter ]
10:36:42 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10:36:54 I don't want no one in this audience to get the impression
10:36:57 we don't take action when people come before us with these
10:37:00 Because since I have been on this council, we have taken
10:37:03 made some tough decisions when it came down to bars and
10:37:06 restaurants, and when we had the problem on 7th Avenue
10:37:13 with the bar, they ended up closing down.
10:37:17 So I don't want no one to get the impression that we are not
10:37:19 doing anything to deal with this issue.
10:37:22 But this chart, this report that Mrs. Coyle gave us, and I
10:37:32 see the 2993 total permits, and doing my numbers, 253 of
10:37:39 these are in my district.
10:37:41 That's a large number.
10:37:44 So here 141 Ybor City, and you had 112 CBD Channel District,
10:37:54 come out to 253 in my particular district.
10:37:59 I understand we are going to have some bad apples.
10:38:04 I understand you are going to have some bad apples.
10:38:08 People who frequent clubs.
10:38:12 They might have people there but there's going to be one are
10:38:16 two that get out of hand and disturbing and make it bad for
10:38:19 all the others.
10:38:20 But I truly believe that that small percentage that are
10:38:27 causing all the problems, we can deal with those issues.
10:38:31 Be if the staff, the law enforcement bring those
10:38:36 troublemakers to this body, we should have policy in place
10:38:43 to address and teal with those issues.
10:38:46 And I think we can do that.
10:38:51 I don't think make any drastic changes.
10:38:54 I don't see a need for that.
10:38:57 And we have the tools to do what need to be done.
10:39:02 We can get this done.
10:39:04 I strongly believe in enforcement.
10:39:07 And I strongly believe -- I didn't know this, but what the
10:39:12 chairman stated about the auditor going out and making sure
10:39:15 that they were doing a 51/49, maybe that's something we need
10:39:19 to evaluate.
10:39:20 And I will support that.
10:39:24 And to make sure that these restaurants, these bars, 51%,
10:39:33 49, then let's go investigate them.
10:39:35 And if they are not doing it, actually, we need to take
10:39:40 action as a council.
10:39:41 I mean, we have to do this, the responsibility, to make sure
10:39:46 these people are in compliance.
10:39:48 And if they are not, then we need to take drastic action to
10:39:51 make sure they come in or put them out of business.
10:39:56 So I'm in support of a strong enforcement.
10:39:59 I'm in support to give the staff and law enforcement the
10:40:03 necessary tools to make sure these people come into
10:40:08 And also be in support of going back to the old days.
10:40:16 Mr. Miranda, I don't know how long.
10:40:25 It sound good to me.
10:40:27 And I will support that, but I think at times we need to
10:40:33 make decisions.
10:40:34 And my colleague Mrs. Capin made a comment earlier that made
10:40:43 me tickle inside, don't believe that it's necessary to move
10:40:47 on, then drop it.
10:40:49 And so I'm at the point now, we need to come up with some
10:40:53 plans, come up with some answers, or we need to move on from
10:40:58 this issue.
10:40:59 Because we have dealt with this for a long time.
10:41:02 And I think it's time to move ahead.
10:41:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I appreciate you getting all the
10:41:07 information from the audience, and then council members
10:41:09 coming up with a very good equivalent of what's happening
10:41:13 But let me just say this.
10:41:14 And I'm not here to offend anybody or anything else.
10:41:17 But you can't compare alcohol zoning to a water meter.
10:41:22 And let me say why.
10:41:23 Water meter is not zoned.
10:41:25 You pay an application.
10:41:26 You get it.
10:41:27 You pay water bill.
10:41:28 You either pay it or you don't pay it.
10:41:31 You don't pay, you get your water cut off.
10:41:34 That happens in alcohol zoning also but not with us.
10:41:37 If you don't pay that bill upon delivery, upon ten days,
10:41:40 depending upon the circumstances, guess what, you get cut
10:41:43 You can't buy any.
10:41:48 One distributor won't sell you to another one.
10:41:50 It doesn't work that way.
10:41:52 However, that land, when you rezone something here, or any
10:41:56 other place in Florida, that zoning goes with the land, not
10:42:00 with the building.
10:42:01 That land is zoned for alcohol forever.
10:42:06 And what I'm saying is it's more difficult to GOP after --
10:42:13 and we have in the past, and we have been successful, to do
10:42:15 that type of take back the alcohol zoning than it is a water
10:42:22 Water meter, you don't pay, take the meter out.
10:42:26 I can't go take a building out of a piece of land that ain't
10:42:29 So just enormous legal problems and enormous city resources.
10:42:36 And be when we have to do it, we do it.
10:42:38 Just not that we don't like to do it.
10:42:40 We want to do it when we are 100% right.
10:42:43 And these are the things that we are up against.
10:42:45 So it's not that easy to say just close them down.
10:42:50 I have yet heard one person come here and tell me where
10:42:53 there's one problem that we auto go after.
10:42:57 Mr. Cohen.
10:42:58 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you very much.
10:43:02 As always, a very interesting discussion, and everyone has
10:43:05 made some very interesting point.
10:43:11 I have spending the last couple of weeks going out on Howard
10:43:14 Avenue at night, and -- [ Laughter ]
10:43:23 I my younger brothers were visiting and they went with me.
10:43:29 And, you know, it sound like a joke.
10:43:33 But the reality is that Howard Avenue changes very
10:43:41 drastically between about 9:30 and 11:30 at night and I
10:43:45 don't usually stay out that late.
10:43:47 So the only way that I can experience it is by making a
10:43:51 conscious effort to go out and actually observe what's going
10:43:55 And the thing that has really struck me over the past couple
10:43:58 of weeks is that the problem that we are talking about, at
10:44:07 least Howard Avenue, has all sorts of different causes.
10:44:10 It's not any one thing that is making the situation on
10:44:14 Howard difficult for the surrounding neighborhoods to deal
10:44:20 It's a lot of different things.
10:44:21 And I heard a few of the things alluded to today in the
10:44:25 public comment.
10:44:26 And I have observed some of them myself.
10:44:29 And I just wanted to say what a few of them are, because
10:44:33 they are not necessarily things that are right for us to
10:44:39 They are things like Mr. Reddick pointed out that sometimes
10:44:41 we can deal with when we are actually going through the
10:44:44 approval process as we have when we sit here and evaluate
10:44:49 new applications for bars and restaurants but, you know,
10:44:54 someone made the comment, when they have so many
10:45:01 concentrated in any one place?
10:45:02 Well, our code has a distance separation in it that for
10:45:06 years was raised.
10:45:07 So whether us or previous councils only have ourselves to
10:45:13 blame for having permitted things that are right next to one
10:45:18 Our problems at least on Howard are greatly exacerbated by
10:45:21 the fact that we cannot wide ten road.
10:45:24 We have in a public transportation, and we don't have enough
10:45:27 Now, I am in the process of working with the public works
10:45:31 department on a couple of ideas to create some more parking.
10:45:34 But the ideas that we are talking about at this point are
10:45:38 only things that are going to Chip away at the problem.
10:45:41 They are not going to solve it wholesale.
10:45:45 You know, the comment was made about the 51/49.
10:45:51 And how that could be manipulated.
10:45:54 You know, a place could be open all day long and nerve
10:45:57 nothing but food and then solve alcohol predominantly at
10:46:02 night and still meet the 51-49.
10:46:06 If the 51/49 doesn't mean -- there's a 51/49 split.
10:46:13 We have had extensive discussions here related to noise.
10:46:19 And we are not going to get into that specifically today due
10:46:21 to some of the pending litigation issues regarding that.
10:46:25 But we certainly attempt to try to deal with that problem,
10:46:30 and some new, more creative ways that give the police more
10:46:35 powers of enforcement.
10:46:36 And I want to say something about what was said about loud
10:46:44 mouth bouncing off one of another.
10:46:46 A lot of this is by human beings behaving badly.
10:46:50 And nothing that we do up here is going to ultimately --
10:46:55 going to deal with people that are just plain acting out.
10:47:01 And that manifests itself in a lot of ways.
10:47:04 It may be making noise.
10:47:07 Even leaving an establishment that they make noise in the
10:47:09 neighborhood, not necessarily the establishment's fault,
10:47:12 that the person is belligerent.
10:47:15 The biggest problem on Howard Avenue that everyone complains
10:47:18 about is the Jay walking.
10:47:21 I mean, the streets are absolutely filled with people.
10:47:23 That's a totally separate issue than anything that we have
10:47:26 been discussing.
10:47:27 So, you know, to those that are frustrated about where this
10:47:31 has gone or wherever it may or may not go in the future,
10:47:34 this is something that is made up of a lot of different
10:47:37 incremental problems.
10:47:38 And my view is that you attack this by going after these
10:47:45 individual problems and chipping away at them.
10:47:47 I remember when we were having a discussion on homelessness
10:47:51 at one point that we were talking about how important it was
10:47:55 for governments to move forward with smaller initiatives
10:48:00 that created five units of housing over here and 20 units
10:48:05 over here in order to sort of work at chipping away at the
10:48:08 And my sense of the problems on Howard, they really --
10:48:15 Howard is a bit unique in the city right now.
10:48:17 The problems on Howard don't have any one magic bullet to
10:48:22 solve that.
10:48:22 They have about ten different subsets, all of which need to
10:48:26 be addressed separately.
10:48:29 So that's my take as we move into the next period of the
10:48:34 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I just want to clarify something.
10:48:40 I was checking with our council attorney Mr. Shelby, because
10:48:44 I'm a little confused as to what we are actually talking
10:48:48 about here, because we have, you know, different parts of
10:48:52 this motion.
10:48:53 And I thought we were talking about part A.
10:48:57 And I thought we were talking about the regulation of sales
10:49:00 of alcoholic beverages.
10:49:01 I mean, that's the discussion we have been having, isn't it?
10:49:06 >> B.
10:49:10 We started with B.let me explain this.
10:49:12 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well, I have B over here to the list of
10:49:20 And in the motion, the way it on the calendar, even though
10:49:24 it's broken up into A and B, as you said before that
10:49:29 conversation about noise bleeding into something else, I
10:49:33 think that B has run into A because all of this discussion
10:49:38 that we have had here and the testimony that we have heard
10:49:40 from staff are, to me, intertwined.
10:49:44 So, you know, we have been talking about they can now for
10:49:52 quite some time.
10:49:53 I want to move away from B and get into A.
10:49:56 And if somebody is going to make a motion to do something,
10:49:59 do it now, because we have already heard from the public, I
10:50:03 think, on a lot of the same issues, and I really would like
10:50:10 to move the discussion along.
10:50:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So would I, believe me.
10:50:15 Okay, thank you, Mrs. Montelione.
10:50:18 Mrs. Mulhern.
10:50:19 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
10:50:20 We did talk a little bit of some of the things that are
10:50:23 going into A.
10:50:24 But what happened was our report from Ms. Coyle only dealt
10:50:28 with the restaurants and not with bars.
10:50:35 So I would like to make a motion on part B that legal come
10:50:42 back with a report about whether we could add some kind of
10:50:48 independent audit of the permits, and whether it be just,
10:50:54 you know, perhaps the ones that have been cited, for
10:50:59 instance, the 293 that Ms. Coyle added up for us over the
10:51:05 last few years, or whether it's, you know, on a biennial
10:51:10 basis, or every three years or something, if there could be
10:51:14 an audit of the sale that's independent, not just the self
10:51:20 recording of the individual restaurants.
10:51:24 So if somebody can come back with that, and maybe explain.
10:51:28 I don't remember, I think there has never been auditing in
10:51:33 place since I have been on council.
10:51:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Capin?
10:51:41 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I will second that.
10:51:42 May I make a friendly amendment to that?
10:51:44 And that is that just for the administration to add to the
10:51:52 budget, there used to be in code enforcement, just in code
10:51:56 enforcement, there was Mr. Miller, is he here?
10:52:01 You know about this.
10:52:03 Please come up here.
10:52:05 And in code enforcement, there was one person in charge of
10:52:12 looking at alcoholic beverage permits.
10:52:16 And making sure randomly and otherwise by complaint-driven
10:52:20 to make sure that these places were in compliance.
10:52:23 I would recommend that that person be reinstated in our code
10:52:37 >>CATHERINE COYLE: It was a business tax which is now part
10:52:39 of enforcement.
10:52:40 I am actually the person that does that, myself, and we
10:52:44 actually create the database.
10:52:46 The letters come from me because it was moved under the
10:52:49 zoning --
10:52:50 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I understand what you do.
10:52:51 And this person -- come back here, Mr. Miller.
10:52:56 >>CATHERINE COYLE: We still utilize code enforcement.
10:53:00 There is a person assigned from field service to do our
10:53:03 inspections for us already.
10:53:15 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Again, this is a specific person for a
10:53:17 specific job, we have over a thousand establishments of
10:53:23 which -- I don't know how many are restaurants and bars yet.
10:53:30 And that was very specific to that job.
10:53:35 It wasn't because they weren't in compliance, like the
10:53:38 restaurants are, which is reporting, because you are sending
10:53:43 out a person the from the restaurant --
10:53:50 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That job was shifted to land development
10:53:52 in early 2000.
10:53:53 That person actually worked for Mel.
10:53:55 That person was the one who created the Rolodex system that
10:53:58 I am talking about they've converted to a mapping database.
10:54:02 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes, because the order orphaned was passed
10:54:05 for the placard and that's why that database -- because when
10:54:09 I went there, that Rolodex was still there, and had that
10:54:12 ordinance not passed, in order to be able to have those
10:54:19 placards in all of the alcoholic beverage establishments,
10:54:24 that's how that came about.
10:54:26 And I'm very happy that that's exactly what it did, because
10:54:29 it was very needed.
10:54:32 So I'm not --
10:54:36 >>CATHERINE COYLE: We still have a person, LaShawn, who was
10:54:40 here before, she actually does that job.
10:54:42 These what she does.
10:54:43 >>YVONNE CAPIN: She goes randomly?
10:54:44 >> She went yesterday with Mr. Miller and measured it with
10:54:49 Not randomly.
10:54:50 They are complaint driven, yes.
10:54:53 I'm trying to say, we still perform that function.
10:54:58 >>YVONNE CAPIN: We are not performing it --
10:55:02 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I'm sorry.
10:55:04 >>YVONNE CAPIN: You know what?
10:55:05 Mr. Miller, please.
10:55:10 Don Miller.
10:55:11 We used to have a guy, alcohol inspector.
10:55:14 We still do have LaShawn that helps out.
10:55:18 Years ago, we used to have the alcohol inspector.
10:55:26 This is officer Don Moore.
10:55:28 And seemed to be in a different role, throughout this.
10:55:33 LaShawn, I think, is very active be with me.
10:55:37 We did do a case yesterday together.
10:55:40 Would I like to see more, maybe another one, to have more,
10:55:44 to get out there or whatever?
10:55:46 It might be something we want to look into.
10:55:49 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Exactly.
10:55:50 Because this is complaint driven.
10:55:53 Someone out there at night looking randomly into these
10:55:57 I mean, we are trying to say -- what I'm hearing here is
10:56:04 some of them are saying we don't have a problem, we don't
10:56:07 need to do anything.
10:56:08 That's what I'm hearing.
10:56:11 And we'll get to part A.
10:56:14 That whole thing was not about a problem.
10:56:16 That was about moving us forward.
10:56:18 But we'll get to that one.
10:56:20 So, again, that would be something that I would recommend,
10:56:28 that we have a specific person.
10:56:37 >>MARY MULHERN: She asked for an amendment to my motion.
10:56:41 And I would amend my motion to add that we get a report on
10:56:48 adding a dedicated alcohol inspector to code enforcement.
10:57:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Who is next?
10:57:02 I have lost track here.
10:57:03 Mr. Suarez?
10:57:04 I'm sorry.
10:57:04 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I just have a question and clarification.
10:57:10 Because Mr. Miranda's statement is what kind of caused the
10:57:12 other aspect of your motion is, I think we are talking about
10:57:18 two different things.
10:57:18 Are we talking about an inspector, Mr. Miranda that used to
10:57:22 go into all the locations, or just restaurants?
10:57:24 I think we need that clarification so we know what we are
10:57:27 talking about.
10:57:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All I stated was that we did audit at
10:57:31 They may draw one a year two, a year, whatever, and they
10:57:34 would inspect, and if they find something wrong they would
10:57:36 inspect others.
10:57:38 But things have changed.
10:57:39 There was no computer system like there are now.
10:57:43 I mean, I'm not here presenting a case for the
10:57:45 administration or against the administration.
10:57:47 I'm here with the facts.
10:57:48 I still haven't heard one item that changes my vote and
10:57:53 prior votes or say we have got a problem with this location,
10:57:57 here is what's happening, and it's not getting the police
10:57:59 department has identified that they do go out.
10:58:03 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
10:58:04 And I guess my question is, what we used to have was someone
10:58:07 that went to all the locations on a random basis as opposed
10:58:11 to restaurants.
10:58:12 If that's the case, then, you know, I think we need --
10:58:18 obviously, that motion is a little bit different, because
10:58:21 Ms. Mulhern mentioned specifically restaurants, and I assume
10:58:24 that what you are talking about is all these locations,
10:58:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, no.
10:58:30 I didn't know, because I don't think I was here or wasn't
10:58:34 aware if they were doing that since I have been on council.
10:58:40 But I thought it was an auditor that was auditing the
10:58:43 receipts, the 51/49.
10:58:47 But that's what I was talking about.
10:58:48 I think if we, in addition, add a full-time inspector to
10:58:54 code enforcement, then they can look at everything.
10:58:56 They can look at the bars, the restaurants, and all of the
10:58:59 violations, not just violating the 51/49.
10:59:02 >>MIKE SUAREZ: But the question to your motion was the
10:59:07 restaurant portion?
10:59:08 >>MARY MULHERN: For the auditor.
10:59:09 I and I would like to hear from legal and TPD about how, you
10:59:13 know, that makes sense what chairman mirrored said, was that
10:59:19 it was a random thing perhaps, where maybe since we now have
10:59:24 a database, which are restaurants, they could --
10:59:30 >> I appreciate that.
10:59:31 Thank you, chair.
10:59:32 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:59:37 I'm a little puzzled by this amendment now when you state
10:59:40 that a full-time position.
10:59:42 Because if as I listen to Mrs. Coyle, she said she had a
10:59:45 person that's out there doing this, and maybe redefine that
10:59:49 position and give us more to do more of what we were
10:59:55 But I don't think we can ask someone if they will make a
10:59:59 full-time inspector.
11:00:01 I mean, we can request it, but I don't think we want to mix
11:00:08 the motion up.
11:00:10 I would like to have the motion, not to this particular
11:00:13 motion that we are talking about.
11:00:15 Because you have got a staff saying you have got a person
11:00:17 that's already doing this job.
11:00:21 Did I hear correctly?
11:00:23 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes.
11:00:23 And I was a little confused by Councilwoman Capin, thought
11:00:28 you were talking about the person that tracked everything,
11:00:31 which is what LaShawn DOS does.
11:00:35 The inspector, she's a code enforcement inspector.
11:00:39 We use code enforcement and business tax code.
11:00:41 They actually go out and take pictures and then e-mail the
11:00:46 letters to the places that they randomly do, they will
11:00:51 report them as well to verify that they are closed down, and
11:00:54 we'll send the letter.
11:00:56 So Michael Williams is actually the dedicated code
11:01:01 enforcement office theory we use for alcohol.
11:01:04 He has other duties as well, but comes back over the years,
11:01:08 the enforcement level officer is what it is, and Mike
11:01:14 Williams is dedicated to alcohol.
11:01:15 >>FRANK REDDICK: So Mr. Chair, I accept the amendment to
11:01:22 the motion if that is not attached to the original motion.
11:01:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am going to have to have clarity on my
11:01:27 own mind here because I have a motion and a second, and the
11:01:30 second, comes with the amendment to the motion, so --
11:01:36 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Before we do that, because I haven't
11:01:38 spoken on it.
11:01:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Montelione.
11:01:40 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
11:01:41 And I complicated it I think a little more and that's why I
11:01:44 have been consulting with our council attorney, because the
11:01:50 intricacies of Robert's Rules of Order are sometimes not
11:01:53 clear in my mind.
11:01:54 So I have cleared this up.
11:01:56 So Mr. Shelby, help me out here if I need it.
11:02:00 What I am proposing is a subsidiary motion, which to
11:02:07 postponing additional regulations placed on changing our
11:02:11 alcoholic beverage regulations.
11:02:13 We have talked about this ad infinitum.
11:02:18 I can't tell you how many hours of meetings we have had, how
11:02:21 many private meetings we have had with staff, and we come
11:02:26 back to the same place which is why I was looking at the
11:02:30 numbers that Mrs. Coyle gave us in part B.
11:02:32 I don't think -- and correct me if I am wrong, Mr. Chair, I
11:02:37 think you agree with me -- I don't think we have a huge
11:02:40 problem in the City of Tampa.
11:02:41 We have a small percentage of establishments that cause most
11:02:45 of the problems, which, you know, if you are in high school,
11:02:51 that's what's causing most of the problems.
11:02:53 If you are in any type of industry, off small employees who
11:02:56 are disgruntled employees and any situation that you have,
11:03:01 it's a small amount of people that are causing the most
11:03:06 In government that's why we have 67% of our budget dedicated
11:03:08 to life and safety, because those problems cause us to spend
11:03:13 the most time and the most money.
11:03:15 Than so I really think we need to put this whole discussion
11:03:21 to bed.
11:03:23 We have spent more than enough time discussing this whole
11:03:26 issue, probably close to two years or more.
11:03:32 I think this discussion started before, in 2011.
11:03:38 So that's my motion.
11:03:40 To postpone this discussion so that we don't have to spend
11:03:45 any more time talking about 10% of the establishments that
11:03:48 are causing a problem.
11:03:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.
11:03:50 Now we are to our cousin, Robert's Rules of Order.
11:03:54 Only two August of '11.
11:04:00 I have a motion.
11:04:00 Do I have a second to that motion?
11:04:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I need to --
11:04:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm sorry but I have a motion I have to
11:04:07 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a motion on the floor.
11:04:09 I have two seconds to my motion.
11:04:11 I have one amendment.
11:04:12 And I have one question from one of the seconds.
11:04:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me correct this.
11:04:18 I gave the second to Mr. Reddick on a close vote with Mrs.
11:04:21 Mr. Reddick now is questioning himself, or myself, on this
11:04:25 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to speak to that.
11:04:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You are going to speak to that in a
11:04:29 minute but I have a motion on the floor now.
11:04:31 Do I have a second?
11:04:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, may I just inform the rest
11:04:35 of council that a motion to postpone indefinitely is a
11:04:38 subsidiary motion, so it is in order.
11:04:42 It must be seconded.
11:04:43 It does require a second.
11:04:45 It is debatable but it's not amendable and requires a
11:04:48 majority vote.
11:04:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much for clarity.
11:04:50 Defensive a second to the motion by Mrs. Month to suspend
11:04:53 this indefinitely?
11:04:58 No second?
11:05:00 We'll be here till midnight.
11:05:02 Anything else?
11:05:05 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I'm prepared to go another two years.
11:05:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Back to the original motion. Now Mr.
11:05:09 Reddick before you speak, do you drop your second on the
11:05:12 >>FRANK REDDICK: I was trying to set an amendment to the
11:05:15 motion because I think it should be a separate motion not
11:05:17 attached to the original motion those made.
11:05:19 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
11:05:23 So I would withdraw my acceptance of the amendment, and that
11:05:27 can be a separate motion.
11:05:29 And I will restate the motion that I would like to have the
11:05:35 staff report from legal and land development on amending the
11:05:44 special use permits for -- I don't know if that's S-1 or S-2
11:05:57 for restaurants selling alcoholic beverages to include some
11:06:05 kind of audit of their sales percentages.
11:06:14 So I would like to hear different options for that.
11:06:19 And that's my motion.
11:06:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I second.
11:06:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.
11:06:22 Go back to the original motion made by Mrs. Mulhern as she
11:06:28 >>MARY MULHERN: For August 7th.
11:06:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And seconded by Mr. Reddick.
11:06:33 I want to say thank you to Mrs. Montelione.
11:06:38 I can't second.
11:06:39 I understand that.
11:06:43 It's not the chairman.
11:06:44 It's the honor of being chair that I don't want to reduce
11:06:48 somebody else saying, well, he did it, so I want to do it.
11:06:52 I don't want to get to that debate about I could have done a
11:06:56 lot of things, but I would rather just run the meeting and
11:06:59 be part of the meeting at some point.
11:07:01 Mrs. Capin.
11:07:08 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Again, to want to put this to rest
11:07:10 indefinitely, we should put to rest our issue on code
11:07:15 We have been talking about things for years.
11:07:17 You know, that is almost absurd, because someone wants to
11:07:22 make a case for putting this to rest.
11:07:28 Either now or in the future.
11:07:30 On their campaign.
11:07:31 And that is not acceptable.
11:07:33 What is acceptable is that we do our business here.
11:07:40 Now, I have been a small business woman since I was 21 years
11:07:45 I was self-employed.
11:07:48 I'm not a self-employed business woman five years, ten years
11:07:52 I dealt with federal law, state law, local law.
11:07:58 And yet it is about paperwork.
11:07:59 But what they are doing is trying to protect the public
11:08:04 Now, what I'm hearing here, we don't have a problem, we
11:08:09 don't need to deal with this anymore.
11:08:11 First, when we get to part A, you are going to see that that
11:08:14 was not intended to deal with a problem.
11:08:17 That was intended to extend what we already do hear.
11:08:23 Now, in 2010, when I represented district 4, and I used to
11:08:37 go there occasionally.
11:08:38 But I did walk the beat from 10 p.m. to 3:30 in the morning
11:08:48 when I was just on council maybe two months.
11:08:52 And my fellow Councilman is correct.
11:08:57 People talking, walking down the street, you hear them.
11:09:01 So that is not -- what we are talking about here is -- and,
11:09:09 you know, our chairman wanted to hear one example.
11:09:12 Hollywood knights, a resident that lived right down the
11:09:17 street from them for ten years, for ten years, complained.
11:09:23 It took us ten years to bring it here.
11:09:27 That resident moved to St. Petersburg.
11:09:31 So, yes, there's an example of what it takes to get somebody
11:09:35 to comply.
11:09:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I wanted to --
11:09:40 >>YVONNE CAPIN: And to think all -- I have the floor.
11:09:45 You asked -- you had not heard one incident.
11:09:48 So I'm giving an example of that one incident.
11:09:53 And they came before us.
11:09:55 We did close them down for one week.
11:09:57 And they have complied.
11:09:59 But it took ten years to bring that to here.
11:10:03 And that is when we look at it, and I said, does it take ten
11:10:10 Maybe we should put some cameras that we supervise like we
11:10:15 do with red light cameras at the corners.
11:10:18 Because that's how we catch the people running red lights.
11:10:22 And we are willing to do that and we collect money on that
11:10:24 and we are okay with that.
11:10:28 I would understand the industry wanting to get these people
11:10:34 out of their hair.
11:10:38 Because as a small business woman, the pawn shop, that said
11:10:51 they were legitimate jewelers, they caused us headaches.
11:10:56 So when you have people cheating, it costs you money.
11:11:00 It costs you money.
11:11:01 Small business has struggled every day.
11:11:04 That's what -- I was 21 until I was 55 years old.
11:11:15 My entire life I have been self-employed.
11:11:17 So when you tell me, oh, small business.
11:11:19 I understand small business.
11:11:22 And those what we are looking at, to put this to rest is
11:11:28 just very sad.
11:11:29 Trying to put this to rest indefinitely is very, very sad.
11:11:33 What I will say is that as far as dedicated code enforcement
11:11:39 person, what I would like to hear from Cathy Coyle before I
11:11:42 make my amendment is, let me ask you this.
11:11:46 You have someone.
11:11:50 It would be advantageous to have that someone dedicated to
11:11:56 this endeavor, to try and bring it in sooner than the ten
11:12:08 >>CATHERINE COYLE: To have a dedicated inspector in-house,
11:12:13 >>YVONNE CAPIN: It would solve a lot of problems.
11:12:14 And that person would help to put the laws that everybody is
11:12:20 talking about on the books to work.
11:12:26 And that's what I'm saying.
11:12:27 So I would like -- my amendment is to give Cathy Coyle -- my
11:12:38 motion -- my amendment -- oh, you.
11:12:43 Voted on that one.
11:12:48 Thank you.
11:12:48 >>FRANK REDDICK: Call the question.
11:12:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You think it easy to sit here?
11:12:56 I can see the crowd.
11:13:00 And at the end I am going to -- and I want a complete report
11:13:05 on Hollywood knights if it was ten years, why it was closed,
11:13:10 and who moved to St. Pete.
11:13:13 And I have a motion by Ms. Mulhern, a second by Mr. Reddick.
11:13:18 Further discussion on the original motion that's on the
11:13:19 floor for the last two and a half hours?
11:13:22 All in favor of the motion please signify by saying aye.
11:13:25 Opposed nay.
11:13:28 Motion passes 5 to 2.
11:13:29 I said nay also.
11:13:30 >> And what date was it set forth?
11:13:33 >> August 7th.
11:13:36 All right.
11:13:39 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Can I make my motion?
11:13:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, you can make your motion.
11:13:43 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
11:13:43 I would move that we recommend to the administration to look
11:13:53 at the budget in order to have a dedicated code enforcement
11:13:58 person dedicated to Ms. Coyle's office for the purpose of
11:14:06 enforcing what we have on the box and everyone feels is
11:14:10 >> Second.
11:14:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mrs. Capin.
11:14:14 Second by Mrs. Mulhern.
11:14:15 Discussion by council members?
11:14:21 I am going to have to speak on that.
11:14:23 Mr. Cohen is the chair.
11:14:24 Let me just say this.
11:14:26 The prudence of the officer that's still here and Mrs.
11:14:33 Coyle's statements if I heard them correct were this, we
11:14:35 have that person that works in code enforcement.
11:14:39 I do the internal work, that person does the external work.
11:14:45 You named an individual by the name of Williams, I believe
11:14:47 it was.
11:14:48 And please come forward.
11:14:50 I have got to make sure that I understood.
11:14:52 Because it's been some time.
11:14:53 And that individual still works at code enforcement.
11:14:56 Am I correct?
11:14:57 And that individual is still doing the same thing as before,
11:15:02 And you are doing the same thing you were doing before.
11:15:04 And you are doing the internal work and he's doing the
11:15:06 external work, the location --
11:15:10 >> I do it as well sometimes.
11:15:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's all I want to ask you.
11:15:14 >>MARY MULHERN: What the motion is asking for or
11:15:38 recommending is a dedicated code enforcement person that
11:15:40 only does alcohol.
11:15:42 Do we have a full-time dedicated person, or this Williams
11:15:45 person that you mentioned, is that all they do?
11:15:49 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Actually, as mentioned before, he does
11:15:51 have other duties, but --
11:15:59 >>MARY MULHERN: So I amend the motion which I had seconded
11:16:01 to be a dedicated full-time code enforcement person to work
11:16:07 on alcohol permits inspections.
11:16:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen?
11:16:13 >>HARRY COHEN: I really would have to echo what Mr. Reddick
11:16:16 said earlier.
11:16:17 Regardless of whether this is a good idea or not, without
11:16:20 the merits, I don't think under our charter that we can do
11:16:25 I think this is --
11:16:29 >>YVONNE CAPIN: It's a recommendation.
11:16:31 A recommendation to administration.
11:16:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Coyle.
11:16:51 Let me ask you this.
11:16:52 Do you really need a full-time person?
11:16:54 Do you have five, six of these a day that you have to go
11:16:59 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No, not every day.
11:17:00 >> So you want a full-time person to do what, Mrs. Coyle?
11:17:03 Not that you are asking but what am I going to do with that
11:17:06 full time person?
11:17:07 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I would have to think about that.
11:17:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's all I am going to say.
11:17:11 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Mrs. Coyle, I'm glad you didn't sit
11:17:18 We are going to have the budget presented by the mayor, you
11:17:19 know, sometime soon, so you have already gone through the
11:17:23 Have you been asked to reduce your budget expenses this
11:17:27 Well, for 13-14.
11:17:28 You have?
11:17:30 >>CATHERINE COYLE: We all were.
11:17:31 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Everyone was.
11:17:33 And from I understand with speaking with others in your
11:17:36 department there is still a request to add staff to your
11:17:41 In spite of being asked to cut the expenses of your
11:17:44 department, it was still because of the amount of permitting
11:17:47 we have been seeing coming in and rezoning applications,
11:17:53 hasn't made to the our desk yet, but you are seeing an
11:17:56 increase based upon additional employees requested.
11:17:59 So I just want to point out that we still are operating at a
11:18:04 deficit position in this city.
11:18:05 We are still digging into our reserves to cover a gap in our
11:18:10 And there are so many issues that need attention in this
11:18:17 I just want everybody to be cognizant that your budget has
11:18:20 been asked to be reduced and you have -- somewhere in your
11:18:25 department, additional employees have been asked.
11:18:29 Thank you.
11:18:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Capin.
11:18:33 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
11:18:33 First of all -- (off microphone) -- from alcohol, beverage
11:18:46 bars and lounges.
11:18:47 But otherwise what she's looking at is restaurants.
11:18:52 That's what they are doing, is looking at restaurant
11:18:56 We are talking apples and oranges here.
11:18:59 We are trying to mix it up.
11:19:02 And I'm trying to separate it.
11:19:06 And so that is why I feel that we need to have that go
11:19:15 And another thing.
11:19:22 We now have administrative permits for alcoholic permits
11:19:27 that do not come to City Council, do not come to City
11:19:32 So, yes, they have changed.
11:19:37 And actually, the idea of putting -- anyone who has an
11:19:45 issue, go talk to the administration, not to City Council.
11:19:47 And that would be perfect for some people, but not for me.
11:19:58 Be thank you.
11:20:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Reddick.
11:20:03 >>FRANK REDDICK: Yes.
11:20:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You called for the question.
11:20:13 >>FRANK REDDICK: I mean, I -- I will yield to you and then
11:20:21 call for the question, sir.
11:20:22 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I appreciate that and I will try to make it
11:20:24 as brief as possible.
11:20:26 Ms. Coyle, the text amendment that we had already voted on
11:20:30 that is part of the cycle concerning the insurance audit
11:20:35 papers that will have to be filed with the city, when is
11:20:40 that text amendment going to be available or done so that we
11:20:43 can start using it?
11:20:46 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I changed the workshop to discuss it and
11:20:48 if you like the amendment you will transmit to Planning
11:20:50 Commission for recommendation, although the Planning
11:20:53 Commission is --
11:20:56 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I mean, when we voted originally, I thought
11:20:59 it was to send it to the Planning Commission originally.
11:21:02 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No, that was directing it to be put into
11:21:04 the cycle.
11:21:06 >>MIKE SUAREZ: So now come before us in order to send to
11:21:09 the Planning Commission.
11:21:09 The process after that is what?
11:21:12 >>CATHERINE COYLE: First and second reading, the ordinance
11:21:14 >>MIKE SUAREZ: So we are looking at having this in place
11:21:17 probably when?
11:21:20 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The Planning Commission will actually
11:21:22 want to see it so I will get that in writing.
11:21:23 But if it does go forward to Planning Commission you will
11:21:26 see in the August, and you will adopt it the end of August,
11:21:29 beginning of September.
11:21:30 If they reject it and don't want to see it more practice
11:21:34 oriented, then July bring it back.
11:21:37 >>MIKE SUAREZ: The reason I'm asking is because I voted on
11:21:41 Ms. Mulhern's first motion concerning going forward.
11:21:46 We are looking at inspections, and get a report back from
11:21:49 the administration -- excuse me, from legal and Ms. Coyle,
11:21:56 regarding what that would entail.
11:21:57 I believe -- and we have not done the one thing that we
11:22:01 talked about before concerning restaurants.
11:22:04 I don't want to necessarily stop the process in terms of get
11:22:11 doing the audit.
11:22:12 I am not supporting this particular amendment as a
11:22:14 recommendation until we get back what we are doing, what we
11:22:16 started doing already to begin with.
11:22:18 I believe -- and I know that not everyone agrees with me,
11:22:22 and I think part of the reason that is in terms of how this
11:22:30 works when it comes to what restaurant owners do when they
11:22:34 are faced with not having insurance for their business.
11:22:42 It is an absolute apocalypse for them because they cannot
11:22:46 operate on any level.
11:22:47 It makes it almost impossible for them to do business.
11:22:49 They lose money almost immediately.
11:22:51 I want to see that process started.
11:22:53 I don't want to start the other process as far as going in.
11:22:58 I think there could be a way that we dovetail those two to
11:23:01 put it forward.
11:23:02 I am not going to support this particular amendment on the
11:23:04 recommendation but I wanted to make sure that we are still
11:23:06 in the same process so that we can get an audit done on
11:23:10 those restaurants, those restaurants, to make sure that they
11:23:14 are complying in terms of what they are.
11:23:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And the auditor to the committee was a
11:23:25 great asset.
11:23:26 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Chairman, I call for the question.
11:23:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just a remainder for council that's
11:23:32 important to remember for your order of doing business.
11:23:35 When someone calls the question, it does require a second.
11:23:38 It needs to be a vote on the motion to call the question.
11:23:41 There's no debate on that motion.
11:23:42 And then it brings the motion on the table for immediate
11:23:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Defensive a second to Mr. Reddick?
11:23:48 Seconded by Mr. Cohen.
11:23:50 We will vote first on the call the question.
11:23:55 Please signify by saying aye.
11:23:57 Opposed nay.
11:23:57 Motion passes unanimously.
11:23:59 Now, the question is --
11:24:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The original motion without debate.
11:24:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The only motion made by Mrs. Capin,
11:24:08 seconded by Mrs. Mulhern.
11:24:09 Do you want to restate that or go by memory?
11:24:12 We can go by memory.
11:24:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's up to the clerk.
11:24:17 Council or the clerk.
11:24:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think this T clerk would rather -- I
11:24:21 can tell by the eyesight location that I would be dead.
11:24:28 So I don't want to die today.
11:24:29 I will go back to Mrs. Capin for the motion, and the second.
11:24:35 >>YVONNE CAPIN: The motion is to recommend to the
11:24:37 administration in the budget to make this T person that is
11:24:43 doing this job now a permanent position within Ms. Coyle's
11:24:56 Which is different from the restaurants because that's being
11:25:00 This is everything.
11:25:00 This would pertain to all alcoholic beverage permitting.
11:25:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Capin.
11:25:07 I have a second by Mrs. Mulhern.
11:25:08 >>MARY MULHERN: Dedicated full time.
11:25:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is that part of the original motion?
11:25:17 I don't know.
11:25:21 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Go ahead.
11:25:22 >>MARY MULHERN: I said that --
11:25:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry, debate at this
11:25:27 point is out of order.
11:25:28 What's appropriate would be for the clerk to reread the
11:25:31 motion based on the minutes.
11:25:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All I wanted was the person who made the
11:25:35 motion whether it's correct or not with the one on one side
11:25:39 or the other side.
11:25:40 Tiff intent of that person.
11:25:41 And I agree with that person.
11:25:42 She has the right to speak to the motion, whether it has one
11:25:45 word missing is not going to change the intent of the
11:25:48 And the intent of the motion was really to get a full-time
11:25:50 employee, and she can state the rest.
11:25:55 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Do you want me to state it again?
11:25:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to make sure --
11:26:00 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes, okay.
11:26:00 The motion is to recommend to the administration to budget
11:26:03 for the person that is in Mrs. Coyle's office, inspector, to
11:26:08 be a full-time position for, in general, alcoholic beverage
11:26:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Capin, second by
11:26:21 Mrs. Mulhern.
11:26:22 Any further discussion?
11:26:22 All in favor of the motion please signify by saying aye.
11:26:27 Opposed nay.
11:26:29 Motion -- let do voice vote because she didn't hear it all.
11:26:37 Mr. Suarez.
11:26:38 >>MIKE SUAREZ: No.
11:26:39 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
11:26:40 >>FRANK REDDICK: No.
11:26:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
11:26:43 >>HARRY COHEN: No.
11:26:45 >>LISA MONTELIONE: No.
11:26:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I'm no.
11:26:47 So it's 5 to 2.
11:26:50 Any other motions on this B?
11:26:53 Thank you all very much.
11:26:55 On B?
11:26:56 Yes, sir, Mr. Cohen.
11:26:57 >>HARRY COHEN: I think I'll wait.
11:27:00 [ Laughter ]
11:27:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: On A.
11:27:02 We go to A.
11:27:05 Yes, ma'am.
11:27:05 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
11:27:08 I'm here on part A.
11:27:12 It is on the agenda to discuss regulation of the sale of
11:27:14 alcoholic beverages.
11:27:15 It was previously scheduled on December 5th and also
11:27:18 discussed on February 6th.
11:27:20 City Council had made a motion and asked legal department to
11:27:23 come back with some ordinances that would address the hours
11:27:26 of operation, people allowed to sell alcoholic beverages and
11:27:31 provide for a permit to allow people to extend those hours.
11:27:35 Currently on your books, the hours for the sale of alcoholic
11:27:38 beverages are 7 a.m. to 3 a.m. except for Sunday where it's
11:27:42 11 a.m. to 3 a.m.
11:27:44 I propose we change to chapter 14 which regulates the hours
11:27:47 which would change it from on premise couples only
11:27:52 establishments to midnight, and provide for an allowance
11:27:58 till 3 a.m. in those establishments, if they receive an
11:28:01 extended hours permit.
11:28:02 The extended hours permit would create in chapter 6, I have
11:28:06 repeated before, I am here to go into great detail if you
11:28:11 would like me to.
11:28:12 I would just like to point out to City Council that it was
11:28:14 provided to you based upon the motion from City Council and
11:28:17 the direction that you have provided.
11:28:19 There were a number of issues that were still open for
11:28:22 discussion, and it was written for all on premises
11:28:28 It can be further limited.
11:28:30 There was discussion about hotels, and there could be
11:28:35 further discussion on how businesses that relate violations
11:28:39 and are in no way culpable for those violations because they
11:28:43 were closed.
11:28:44 That's not yet been dealt with.
11:28:45 And what the violations are.
11:28:49 Based upon the motion that was provided, what was put in the
11:28:51 ordinance that was presented to you, what violations as well
11:28:56 as more serious crimes, rapes, murder, drug charges, and
11:29:02 that is the kind of violations that can have somebody
11:29:05 revoked or extended for the be permit.
11:29:08 Again, I provided additional details if you would like
11:29:11 additional detail, I can do that.
11:29:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Are those violations that you just stated
11:29:15 already part that you could close them down for something
11:29:19 >>REBECCA KERT: No, they are not.
11:29:20 What you have currently on your books for your alcoholic
11:29:25 beverage special use permit which runs with the land use,
11:29:28 you have a revocation and suspension permit.
11:29:30 But it's limited what you can revoke it for because it's a
11:29:34 land use permit.
11:29:35 It can only be revoked or suspended for things that are tied
11:29:38 to what that permit is.
11:29:39 That is the sale of alcoholic beverages, or the conditions
11:29:41 that are directly related to the permit.
11:29:44 So, for example, if somebody is required to sell 51/49 and
11:29:50 report on that, and something they can be revoked or
11:29:54 suspended for, if they have violations such as the sale of
11:29:58 alcohol, it's something that could be suspended or revoked
11:30:02 However, because murder is not directly tied to the sale of
11:30:05 alcoholic beverages, if there's a murder or several murders,
11:30:09 or potentially several drug deals on the establishment, it
11:30:12 would not be directly related to the sale of alcohol you can
11:30:15 beverages and it wouldn't be appropriate to take away the
11:30:17 land use aspect of it.
11:30:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.
11:30:25 Mr. Reddick.
11:30:26 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
11:30:27 Let me ask you a question pertaining to hours of operations.
11:30:32 How would this affect American Legion post, for example?
11:30:36 Would they have to stop selling at 12 and apply for a late
11:30:41 anytime permit?
11:30:43 >>REBECCA KERT: The way the ordinance is drafted is it
11:30:45 applies to all on premises consumptions, unless you have
11:30:49 special conditions already in your use permit.
11:30:51 So potentially it could.
11:30:53 But at the same time it does provide for a process for the
11:30:56 American Legion post or someone else that is required to
11:31:00 post at midnight to come in and get a permit.
11:31:03 And that permit would be automatically granted the first
11:31:05 time around as long as you apply for it and pay a fee which
11:31:10 is proposed to be, I believe you heard, $50, and so the it
11:31:17 would be an annual permit.
11:31:18 It could be denied the second time if, for example, you were
11:31:21 suspended, or you were revoked, or you had certain other
11:31:25 criteria. But the first time you would automatically get
11:31:27 >>FRANK REDDICK: So are there any exemptions to any of
11:31:33 these type of organizations?
11:31:36 Because I think in Ybor City you have some private clubs
11:31:40 over there, that have events, and if they are having a
11:31:44 party, as long as it's on-site premises, organizations, they
11:31:55 are allowed to stay open past 12, from my understanding what
11:31:58 I am hearing you.
11:32:00 Wouldn't the American Legion post be exempt from this type
11:32:03 of law?
11:32:05 >>REBECCA KERT: I am not aware of anything that would
11:32:07 automatically exempt them the way it's written.
11:32:09 If they have some awareness of some type of law that I am
11:32:12 not aware of.
11:32:13 But it's my understanding of it they have to come in and get
11:32:16 a permit to sell alcohol.
11:32:19 If I am incorrect on that, certainly I am willing to concede
11:32:22 the point.
11:32:22 But it's my understanding at this point the only --
11:32:25 >>FRANK REDDICK: Ms. Coyle?
11:32:37 >>REBECCA KERT: I know she hasn't gotten very far because
11:32:39 she has another item.
11:32:40 >>FRANK REDDICK: The people who operate the American Legion
11:32:44 post, the clubs, the facilities, do they have to apply for
11:32:49 alcohol permits in order to have that establishment open?
11:32:53 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes, if they came in and applied after
11:32:55 1945, yes.
11:33:03 With the state, and with the city as well.
11:33:05 >>FRANK REDDICK: So that's within city limits?
11:33:09 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes, sir.
11:33:10 >>FRANK REDDICK: So in essence they have to meet this.
11:33:13 If this passes, they have to meet this requirement?
11:33:18 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That is my understanding.
11:33:19 I am not aware of any exemptions.
11:33:21 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
11:33:23 Well, I have a concern about that, because I have an
11:33:29 additional concern about some of these private clubs.
11:33:35 Sometimes they use the facilities for fund-raisers, and now
11:33:39 you are going to put these regulations on them, and I'm
11:33:43 pretty sure, you will probably have every American Legion
11:33:49 member down here and sitting in chambers right now that's
11:33:53 aware of.
11:33:53 This so my position, I didn't support it before and I am not
11:33:57 going to support it today.
11:33:58 I just want to go on record.
11:34:02 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Just a remainder that everyone who didn't
11:34:04 move forward with a majority vote, it was not one person
11:34:07 that brings this forward.
11:34:08 And it is a draft.
11:34:11 And it was a draft.
11:34:12 And here is the thing.
11:34:17 And with that draft, it can be have whatever exceptions.
11:34:22 It is like an infant baby to look at.
11:34:25 But it was never, ever looked at.
11:34:27 And as far as I can see, it will never be looked at.
11:34:33 And that's too bad.
11:34:40 And, you know, when you talk about going to need a permit
11:34:43 for a special event, no.
11:34:45 If they have the permit, a function, however they functioned
11:34:49 And if they have special parties, and it permitted, that's
11:34:53 what they do.
11:34:55 They don't need the special permit to have a party.
11:34:58 Not the American Legion.
11:34:59 Not anyone else.
11:35:02 But it was a way of being able for $50, is what they are
11:35:06 talking about now -- I didn't not know that amount before --
11:35:10 to start will go at this seriously, and hopefully, the
11:35:19 industry would weigh in.
11:35:20 And again I am very, very sorry that we do not have that
11:35:23 task force, because that must have gotten a half dozen
11:35:26 e-mails from the industry, from attorneys, from
11:35:30 stakeholders, from neighbors, that when they heard it, I
11:35:34 want to serve on that task force.
11:35:36 But it did not come to fruition.
11:35:39 So let me have just a moment here.
11:35:49 I know that this is something that everyone want to -- or
11:35:52 not everyone.
11:35:53 I am not going to speak for my colleagues.
11:35:55 One has spoken.
11:35:55 The others.
11:35:58 I would like to make a motion at the end of the discussion,
11:36:02 and I'll leave it at that and I'll listen to what my
11:36:05 colleagues have to say.
11:36:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen.
11:36:07 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you.
11:36:08 I have to quickly double back into the first part of our
11:36:13 conversation, and I promise not to reopen the entire matter
11:36:18 But there were statements made in here today about whether
11:36:23 or not we have a problem.
11:36:25 And I just want to say that the reason I didn't second what
11:36:32 Councilwoman Montelione suggested earlier is because I can't
11:36:37 speak for my colleagues' district, those of us that
11:36:40 represent single-member district, but in my district, we do
11:36:44 have a problem, and it exists on Howard Avenue, and it has
11:36:48 proved very, very difficult to deal with over a period of
11:36:52 And the reason that I am in favor of keeping this
11:36:57 conversation going is because until we make some more
11:37:01 progress, if not solving the problem, at least dealing with
11:37:07 it in ways that we can, I want to keep having the
11:37:11 I think that's the only way that we are ultimately going to
11:37:13 get where we need to go.
11:37:18 In terms of this particular item, I originally thought this
11:37:26 was an excellent concept.
11:37:27 And where I got tripped up and where I became concerned was
11:37:30 that I ultimately feel that it places too much of a burden
11:37:34 on existing businesses, many of which have not oh
11:37:38 demonstrated that they have any problem following the rules
11:37:40 in the city.
11:37:41 I think that the statistics that we were given today, while
11:37:45 not a complete survey, show that there are a large number of
11:37:50 establishments that are complying and that are following the
11:37:56 I just think that the discussion of this late night permit
11:38:00 has brought forth a larger issue.
11:38:02 And I do hope that this piece of the discussion remains
11:38:07 I do not think we can continue to move forward, zoning
11:38:14 alcohol with the land.
11:38:15 I think ultimately we have got to change the way we do
11:38:18 business on a go-forward basis.
11:38:21 And in concept of making those changes within the business
11:38:27 regulation field rather than within the land use field is
11:38:32 something that I think has a lot of merit.
11:38:34 And I want to go back and say again, I think to make it
11:38:40 clean, to make sure we are not embroiled in litigation for
11:38:42 the next decade, it seems to be me that the only way to do
11:38:46 it is on a go forward basis.
11:38:48 But that is the discussion that I do think we need to have.
11:38:51 Because if at a certain point in time we change the way we
11:38:56 do our permitting and make it a business regulation instead
11:38:58 of a land use regulation, at least on those establishments
11:39:03 that aren't grandfathered in, we will have an ability to
11:39:05 move quicker and take more decisive action than we can with
11:39:10 these things that run with the land.
11:39:11 The biggest problem with the running with the land is that
11:39:14 the business changes and the rules don't change, it just
11:39:19 keeps circling over from one owner to another.
11:39:22 And a good intentioned good actor can sell to be another
11:39:26 good intentioned good actor who sells to a not God
11:39:29 intentioned bad actor, and, you know, we are five years away
11:39:33 from City Council's original decision, and we end up with a
11:39:36 So I don't think that this conversation should end.
11:39:46 But if you sat in my office and received the number of phone
11:39:50 calls that we get, you know, it's related in many different
11:39:56 ways to this problem whether it's noise, traffic, parking,
11:39:59 unruly behavior, whatever it is.
11:40:02 To me, changing the way we do business going forward, I
11:40:09 think if ten years from now we are still attaching these
11:40:13 permits to the land, we are going to regret it.
11:40:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
11:40:17 Before I go -- and I have Mrs. Montelione.
11:40:19 I would like to have the legal department answer that
11:40:23 statement that Mr. Cohen made.
11:40:25 Can you legally tie it to the business without the land
11:40:27 currently, without a legislative approval?
11:40:30 >>REBECCA KERT: Currently we cannot regulate the business
11:40:34 portion of alcoholic beverages portion.
11:40:38 We can regulate businesses, we talked about nightclubs, pain
11:40:42 management clinics, we do for some reason skating rinks.
11:40:47 We regulate certain types of businesses.
11:40:49 But the state has told us, as far as your question is
11:40:53 directly related to whether or not we as a city can regulate
11:40:58 the business of alcoholic beverages, we specifically cannot.
11:41:01 The legislature has expressly said we cannot.
11:41:03 >>HARRY COHEN: That wasn't exactly what I was suggesting.
11:41:08 What I was suggesting was that the permit process for
11:41:11 alcohol note be a part of our land use code.
11:41:16 Because when it becomes part of our land use code, we all
11:41:19 know we deal with this all the time.
11:41:22 It runs with the land.
11:41:23 Taking it away with eminent domain proceedings, these
11:41:27 standard are extremely high. If we put it in a different
11:41:30 chapter, if we regulate it somewhere else, doesn't it
11:41:35 necessarily change the due process elements that are
11:41:39 involved in regulating it?
11:41:41 >>REBECCA KERT: You are correct in that when we grant the
11:41:44 land use permit or a zoning, there are certain entitlements
11:41:48 that go with that.
11:41:49 It goes with the land.
11:41:50 It's not annually renewable.
11:41:52 You don't need to take a fresh look at it every year to see
11:41:55 whether or not -- that is there forever until you take it
11:41:58 And as you said, there's a lot of due process involved in
11:42:02 taking it away.
11:42:04 When you regulate a business, there are still due process
11:42:09 You can't arbitrarily and capriciously take anyone's
11:42:12 business license that you granted them away.
11:42:14 However, it can be annual.
11:42:16 The criteria can change upon which you review it.
11:42:18 It is not entitlement.
11:42:19 If you have an expectation to forever.
11:42:22 But I do say as far as looking at the -- and I know this
11:42:28 isn't what you said but for everyone listening, the question
11:42:33 of whether or not we can pick alcoholic beverages, and
11:42:36 regulate it as a license or business, we may not.
11:42:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's what I was getting at.
11:42:45 And I agree with you wholeheartedly.
11:42:48 I have said it before in the past.
11:42:50 I agree with you.
11:42:51 But it's to have to be a legislative thing for the whole
11:42:56 >>HARRY COHEN: I think there is a window of opportunity in
11:43:00 her statement.
11:43:00 But he can we can have that discussion on a business
11:43:03 But I believe there is a window of opportunity in that
11:43:07 It depends on exactly how you couch what it is that you are
11:43:11 trying to regulate.
11:43:13 She's shaking her head yes, just for the record, are for
11:43:16 people watching.
11:43:17 [ Laughter ]
11:43:17 And so that's all I have to say on the subject at the
11:43:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:43:22 Mrs. Montelione.
11:43:23 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I'm not sure we want to wait for a
11:43:26 different day.
11:43:26 We are on the subject and I'm ready to be here till midnight
11:43:30 as Chairman Miranda has suggested, because this has been a
11:43:35 painful and long process and I would like to know what that
11:43:38 window of opportunity is, Mrs. Kert.
11:43:40 While she's coming to the podium, I also want to say that,
11:43:43 you know, you talked about the single member district, and
11:43:46 not speaking for everyone, I'm a single-member district.
11:43:52 I am not in the area that has a preponderance of these clubs
11:43:56 or even a concentrated area, but land areawise, it's a big
11:44:02 section of the City of Tampa that lies within the boundaries
11:44:05 of my district, and, you know, it's not Howard Avenue, it's
11:44:10 not Seminole Heights, but there are very popular clubs
11:44:14 within my district.
11:44:14 Some of them bad actors that have been shut down, some of
11:44:18 them that have been very investigated, and now that they
11:44:21 have been threatened they have changed their ways.
11:44:23 One on Fowler Avenue, and one on Busch Boulevard.
11:44:26 These are large venue night clubs.
11:44:29 They are not the small mom and pop type of establishments.
11:44:33 But some of the things you brought up, Mr. Cohen,
11:44:35 pedestrians are crossing the street.
11:44:39 I, unlike you, have been out both in Seminole Heights at
11:44:43 some of the restaurants there late at night, even had dinner
11:44:48 until 11 p.m. and not getting home till after 2.
11:44:52 And the pedestrian crossing at Seminole Heights on Florida
11:44:58 Avenue, because of some of the parking situations, another
11:45:03 concern at South Howard and Seminole Heights because of the
11:45:06 noise which we don't really want to delve into, but all of
11:45:09 those things aren't necessarily tied to one particular
11:45:14 When you have a concentration of establishments in an area,
11:45:18 these people can be coming from one of many establishments,
11:45:22 or they can be coming from a hotel.
11:45:24 We have got the new epicurean down the street, the South
11:45:28 Howard area.
11:45:29 So who knows where people are consuming their beverages and
11:45:34 then walking down the street, perhaps one part of SoHo and
11:45:39 they are walking back to the hotel.
11:45:42 How do you pinpoint which establishment is responsible for
11:45:47 causing the problem?
11:45:48 So I think all of those things, we have other ways of
11:45:52 regulating them.
11:45:53 And on the books right now, I mean, you break the law, Jay
11:45:58 walking, technically a law on the books, but there's an
11:46:08 element of pedestrian safety that we can put in to address
11:46:13 that issue.
11:46:13 Public drunkenness, causing a nuisance.
11:46:16 All those things we have laws for.
11:46:17 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
11:46:23 Than let me go back to you somewhat directly as I can
11:46:31 answering the question which you asked, which is to provide
11:46:33 a little more detail on what Mr. Cohen was saying.
11:46:40 We in the City of Tampa and have for many decades regulated
11:46:43 alcohol strictly from a land use component.
11:46:46 And through that component, we have gotten into a number of
11:46:49 operational conditions.
11:46:51 Some of them I hope all are doing with alcoholic beverages,
11:46:57 some of them dealing with somewhat ancillary, when you do
11:47:02 that, you have established rules for that establishment that
11:47:07 go on potentially forever.
11:47:10 So you have set out how you feel it's appropriate for them
11:47:13 to operate in 1965, and in 1930, or 2030, we may have a
11:47:20 different idea.
11:47:21 It may be more lenient.
11:47:22 It may be less lenient.
11:47:24 I have had these discussions with all of you.
11:47:26 And there may or may not be contested but sometimes there's
11:47:30 the feeling throws a feeling that we are too strict.
11:47:33 When you tie it toe your land use permit, that is tied to
11:47:37 the permit.
11:47:38 And that stays even if you make other regulations that are
11:47:43 more lenient or more strict.
11:47:44 And that is the concern that you have.
11:47:45 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I want to insert here, though, is it the
11:47:50 business owner who feels the regulations we set
11:47:52 hypothetically in 1930 are too strict, they are welcome to
11:47:55 come back in and amend their permit.
11:47:58 They can amend --
11:48:01 >>REBECCA KERT: Not their permit.
11:48:02 The land use.
11:48:05 >>LISA MONTELIONE: The property owner can come back in.
11:48:07 >>REBECCA KERT: They have the opportunity to go top that
11:48:09 establishment that has that criteria. The property owner
11:48:11 has the opportunity to come back in, pay the fee, and see if
11:48:15 City Council is willing to --
11:48:19 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Right, in a commercial operation, tenant
11:48:22 and landlord work together.
11:48:25 If they want to, they can come here and they can ask for a
11:48:29 revision to their permit.
11:48:32 Yes, they can.
11:48:32 So that would be a business decision.
11:48:34 And they have the prerogative to do that.
11:48:39 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes.
11:48:41 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
11:48:43 So now the window.
11:48:43 >>REBECCA KERT: That get to the merits, that statement is
11:48:50 So one of the things that without going into great detail,
11:48:54 but a number of other discussions going on simultaneously,
11:48:57 but we had discussions about looking at business operating
11:49:01 And what we can do to regulate the underlying business as
11:49:05 opposed to necessarily focus on alcohol.
11:49:08 And we could come back and do that at a different time.
11:49:12 I can't tell you right now exactly what we would be able to
11:49:15 regulate with restaurants, but each individual topic we need
11:49:19 to regulate to see what the state has already granted.
11:49:22 But we have already talked about night clubs.
11:49:24 There are different avenues to do that.
11:49:28 Some of the things that we heard people talk about are --
11:49:34 there's been about two years of discussions about problems.
11:49:36 Some of them are directly tied to alcohol.
11:49:37 Some of them have to underage drink.
11:49:40 Some of them have top do not so much about alcohol, although
11:49:43 you could say they may be murders but not something we can
11:49:49 do with your alcohol permit.
11:49:51 There may be some things such as restaurants, maybe things
11:49:53 that we cannot deal with quite as well through the ones that
11:49:56 have already been permitted for those that operated
11:49:59 restaurants during the day meet their 51/49 but look more
11:50:03 like bars at night.
11:50:04 Jay walking may have something to do with alcohol but it's
11:50:07 not something that we can deal with in the special use
11:50:10 There are a number of different areas and it may take a
11:50:16 number of different approaches.
11:50:17 Let me say this, whatever you do, there is not one solution
11:50:21 that's going to address all of the issues that City Council
11:50:24 has been raising for two years.
11:50:26 All of them -- any of them may address some of them, but
11:50:31 there isn't one that is going to address all of them.
11:50:33 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So what business operating permit that
11:50:38 we have been discussing is not going to solve the problem
11:50:39 that we are seeing in some of the neighborhoods such as SoHo
11:50:43 or in possibly Seminole Heights, which was brought up
11:50:49 So we are looking at a combination, enforcing the
11:50:53 regulations we already have is a good step, and coming up,
11:50:58 working with what we have, the purview to do.
11:51:02 Because as chair Miranda pointed out, as you pointed out,
11:51:06 the state has specifically told us what we can't do in
11:51:09 regard to alcohol beverage regulation.
11:51:13 So, you know, it really pains me that we are spending so
11:51:18 much discussion and hanging our hat on one possible
11:51:21 solution, where that's not the case.
11:51:24 We have to look at these individual elements, and a
11:51:28 one-business operating permit is not going to address all
11:51:31 these different elements.
11:51:32 And I also saw or read something recently -- I can't
11:51:37 remember the publication that I read in the -- but there is
11:51:39 congressional discussion about how states regulate and
11:51:45 license businesses.
11:51:46 And I'm sure you are familiar with that discussion that's
11:51:49 being held in Congress right now, because, you know, a
11:51:58 staggering number of independent licenses that one needs to
11:52:02 operate in a particular state.
11:52:04 The State of Florida, we regulate at the state level a
11:52:08 number of businesses, and you have to have a license to
11:52:11 practice that particular profession.
11:52:14 And Congress is saying, hey, that's way too much.
11:52:19 You have got to be in the weeds with some of these business
11:52:23 regulations and licensing regulations.
11:52:25 So I'm for independent solutions, you know, pedestrian
11:52:29 safety has been my number one usual you from day one,
11:52:34 because before I was sitting here, doing something about
11:52:38 stopping people from walking into the middle of the street
11:52:40 whale there's moving traffic, when you are alcohol-impaired,
11:52:45 gets worse.
11:52:47 There are certain things we can do to work with the Florida
11:52:49 Department of Transportation, our own transportation
11:52:53 department, and engineering to try engineering enforcement,
11:52:59 and can't remember the other one, the three E's, education,
11:53:07 to try and curb that problem.
11:53:08 The noise usual you is going to work itself out, it seems in
11:53:12 court, so that's two of the three that have become problems.
11:53:16 And traffic and parking is another element of it that, you
11:53:21 know, will be separate.
11:53:22 But I'm all for fixing those particular issues.
11:53:25 But there isn't one business operating permit that's going
11:53:28 to solve all of them.
11:53:29 Thank you.
11:53:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
11:53:31 And before I go to Mr. Suarez, I have ten minutes before
11:53:34 I am never going to finish the next four that I have.
11:53:36 So all likely we'll recess at unanimous and come back at
11:53:42 Mr. Suarez.
11:53:42 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mrs. Kert, I don't know why you keep sitting
11:53:46 down so far away.
11:53:48 [ Laughter ]
11:53:48 You know we are going to ask you a lot of questions.
11:53:52 First of all, I would like to thank Mr. Cohen.
11:53:54 He typically is very clear eyed and very succinct in terms
11:53:59 of what he's saying as to what the issue is.
11:54:02 I think because of you represent that district, you do have
11:54:06 an inordinate of calls and problems, we've been that
11:54:09 particular section of town.
11:54:12 We talked about this many times, Mrs. Kert, which is -- and
11:54:15 this is privately that we talked about in addition to some
11:54:18 of the publicly -- which is, I have always believed that
11:54:24 land use has mixed in, and you gave a very short and very
11:54:30 good history of the way land use has kind of grabbed in a
11:54:32 lot of other things, parking, and, you know, time that the
11:54:38 business is open.
11:54:40 There's a lot of things that are in there that are not
11:54:42 specifically land use in my mind.
11:54:44 I think that land use means one thing versus some of the
11:54:47 business use.
11:54:48 I know that the legislature has over the course of the
11:54:52 number of years put restrictions on what cities and counties
11:54:56 can do concerning issues and some on the things.
11:55:01 There are some things we can't do.
11:55:02 I think Mr. Cohen said it correctly, where there is some
11:55:05 pieces of this that we can regulate as a business use.
11:55:09 I have always believed that because we are growing as an
11:55:13 urban area that parking should be one of those things and to
11:55:18 business use and not necessarily land use.
11:55:20 Because the more urban we get the less number of parking
11:55:22 spaces we have, the more that they should be able to show us
11:55:26 that they have some parking available for their own business
11:55:28 outside of the way that we do it now.
11:55:35 Mrs. Coyle and some of the folks may not like that.
11:55:37 Some other people outside of this room may or may not like
11:55:40 I don't know. But there is a lot of things that go directly
11:55:43 with what we do in terms of regulating businesses that get
11:55:48 too tied up into land use.
11:55:50 Having said all of that, what can we regulate as a business
11:55:55 use when we are talking about any kind of business, based on
11:55:59 what the legislature has said it can and cannot do?
11:56:03 Specifically when it comes to bars, restaurant and those
11:56:05 types of entertainment venues?
11:56:07 >>REBECCA KERT: It's going to depend in some part on what
11:56:11 exactly the type of use is.
11:56:13 For example, some of them, in which case anything that is a
11:56:18 reasonable use for police power you can probably regulate.
11:56:23 Powers at the restaurant may be preempted on certain issues
11:56:26 that go within what has already been licensed.
11:56:29 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Let me just stop you there.
11:56:32 We know in terms of licensure, permitting, there are certain
11:56:35 things that we do not have permission to regulate.
11:56:39 I mean, we do not do lying licenses and that's one of the
11:56:43 biggest things that we get confused with from some members
11:56:46 of the public that we don't give them a license to sell
11:56:54 We give them permit on the land use to sell alcohol on that
11:56:58 It's a little different.
11:56:59 I think because land use is running with the land, we need
11:57:04 to find ways in which that we can regulate it smarter, not
11:57:09 necessarily put more regulations on it, because I think the
11:57:12 more we look at a business use permit on some of the things
11:57:14 that we discuss, ad infinitum during land use hearings, I
11:57:19 think business owners, new business owners -- and I do agree
11:57:23 with Mr. Cohen that that go forward, in my mind, that the
11:57:28 more we do that talks about business use, these things that
11:57:31 are always contentious within land use, the better off we
11:57:34 are going to be.
11:57:35 Because I think that most business owners want to have a set
11:57:40 of rules, a template that they can follow and say this is my
11:57:44 cost in order for me to open up this particular business
11:57:48 going forward.
11:57:49 You know, I deal with this all the time.
11:57:51 When I deal with business owners, which is what is the cost
11:57:55 going to be associated with the number of employees I am
11:57:57 going to hire, the permits that I have to have, the
11:57:59 insurance that I have to have, you know, all those things
11:58:03 are incredibly necessary, and for me, it's an issue of how
11:58:09 do we find the right mix for us?
11:58:12 I would love to see a lot of things, land use now, take it
11:58:15 out, so that we can take care of bad actors when we do have
11:58:20 Now, specifically on restaurants, we have talked about a
11:58:23 little bit of the time that they can be open, okay?
11:58:28 And we talked about business use permit.
11:58:30 You know, St. Pete uses that.
11:58:32 It was brought up by Mrs. Capin before in terms of a draft
11:58:36 ordinance pertaining to that.
11:58:38 And I think the only disagreement I have with my colleague
11:58:42 on that is -- and I agree with Mr. Cohen on this, which
11:58:46 would be whether go forward or not, look back for everyone,
11:58:51 because I feel there is a fairness issue concerning the
11:58:54 amount of time, effort and money that businesses have
11:58:57 already put into land use permitting, to put that onto their
11:59:00 land use category.
11:59:03 I think that if you are a business, and you are competitive,
11:59:05 and you want to stay competitive with other folks, if they
11:59:08 have got a business use permit -- and I have said this
11:59:11 before, too -- that unless it's open till 3 a.m., you as
11:59:16 that particular business owner are going to say, now what?
11:59:19 I am going to go back.
11:59:20 I want to change my land use -- and this San question we are
11:59:23 going to have to talk about legally -- do they take it off
11:59:26 their land use permit in order to go forward after the fact?
11:59:29 Or is it a business use permissible on top of what the
11:59:36 original site man was?
11:59:37 So they come in to amend it?
11:59:40 Or can they just say, look, we are going to get rid of this,
11:59:43 and we are going to go forward with a business use permit
11:59:45 that allows us to open up longer than what we have before?
11:59:50 >>REBECCA KERT: I am just going to try to answer the very
11:59:53 last question that you gave.
11:59:54 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Find the one that you like best.
11:59:58 >>REBECCA KERT: The very last one that you asked, and that
12:00:02 is, no, you can't use a business operating permit to change
12:00:05 a special use permit.
12:00:06 >>MIKE SUAREZ: That's not my question.
12:00:10 My question was whether or not you have to come in and
12:00:12 change your land use permit to remove the time frame and
12:00:17 allow for a business use permit at that point for that
12:00:20 particular use.
12:00:23 >>REBECCA KERT: If you have on your land use permit that
12:00:27 are -- conditions that are contrary to be either business
12:00:30 operating regulations generally, or a business operating
12:00:35 permit, yes.
12:00:36 >>MIKE SUAREZ: There's a cost associated with it somebody
12:00:39 coming back in order to change their site plan.
12:00:42 And the process for that would be administrative or would it
12:00:45 come before us?
12:00:46 >> The way you have it set up right now, if they have
12:00:50 something on their permit -- let me take a step back.
12:00:56 Under your regulations as now, they are going to have to
12:00:59 come back to you if they want to stay open later than three,
12:01:03 because you have to revise your administrative land use
12:01:06 permit to make allowance for that.
12:01:07 >> And for me, I think once we find out, I think you are
12:01:12 going to have to -- at spoke point we are going to have to
12:01:17 have a discussion about diving is deep into the legislature
12:01:20 will allow us to do in terms of business permit, because I
12:01:23 think there is a way that we can solve this.
12:01:25 I am agree with Mr. Cohen when he has said that this
12:01:29 discussion, balks it's important, not just for one area that
12:01:32 he represents, but for the entire city on how we look at
12:01:36 these things for the future, we need to find a happy medium
12:01:40 in which land use does not include so many on the part of it
12:01:43 that it's almost impossible -- and I shouldn't say
12:01:46 impossible -- it improbable that we are going to close down
12:01:49 a location because we happen to have a bad actor.
12:01:54 And their particular use is again not only the
12:01:59 neighborhood's wishes but also in terms of law enforcement
12:02:01 and some on the things.
12:02:03 We are really going to have to come back and revisit.
12:02:05 But thanks for explaining in terms of what that would mean
12:02:08 in relation to land use.
12:02:10 Thank you, Mr. Chair.
12:02:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez.
12:02:12 And before I go to Mrs. Capin, there's also three other
12:02:17 council members who represent the whole city, and when you
12:02:20 talk about one council member, what happens when you call
12:02:23 the department, they only give you one.
12:02:26 Wherever that district S.but in essence that's really four.
12:02:28 So I just want to put that on the record.
12:02:31 Okay, Mrs. Capin.
12:02:32 And then we are going to close after Mrs. Capin and come
12:02:36 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you very much for the floor.
12:02:38 But good news, because the discussion we are having right
12:02:42 now is a discussion that we could have had December the
12:02:48 But it is June 19th.
12:02:50 And my colleagues are green with what was presented, because
12:02:57 at least four members voted to bring it forth.
12:03:03 Yes, it could be a permit and it's a business permit tied to
12:03:05 the business.
12:03:09 And I'm listening, and I'm thinking, this is exactly why it
12:03:14 was a draft, because my colleagues are exactly doing what
12:03:19 could have been done December the 5th.
12:03:21 But it's now June 19th.
12:03:24 And that is exactly what was brought forth, was a business
12:03:30 license permit, and alcohol you can beverage permit tied to
12:03:34 a business license.
12:03:35 Now, whether it moves forward or not or in the future, it's
12:03:40 One of the consequences that could happen with that is if we
12:03:44 move forward on a business which I think is not a bad idea,
12:03:49 but it isn't all of it, is that the consequences could be
12:03:54 that the people that are grandfathered in become
12:03:58 Because they don't have to comply with the business.
12:04:01 So there you go.
12:04:03 That is one possible consequence.
12:04:06 Now, the only thing I want to do before we break for lunch
12:04:09 is during a workshop you can make a motion at any time.
12:04:13 And I would like to make a motion.
12:04:14 And the motion is to -- I wrote it down here.
12:04:23 Very short.
12:04:24 Yes, the motion is that we align the hours of operation for
12:04:33 alcoholic beverage consumption seven days a week.
12:04:40 So it would be from 7 a.m. to 3 a.m., seven days a week.
12:04:45 And I believe that would be helpful to our community and the
12:04:51 small businesses in our community.
12:04:53 And it doesn't break up.
12:04:56 It's all the same.
12:04:58 So that's my motion, to align the hours of operation seven
12:05:02 days a week, Sunday with the other days of the week, 7 a.m.
12:05:07 to 3 a.m.
12:05:08 That is my motion.
12:05:09 >> I have a motion on the floor.
12:05:10 Do I have a second?
12:05:12 Motion dies for lack of a second.
12:05:14 Let me say this.
12:05:15 Anything else?
12:05:16 >>YVONNE CAPIN: No.
12:05:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say.
12:05:18 We are going to go into recess.
12:05:20 But I have to poll the council because there's a special
12:05:22 meeting to do after we come back and I want to know how many
12:05:27 council members are going to be back after the one and a
12:05:29 half hour lunch break.
12:05:31 Will we have a quorum?
12:05:32 All right.
12:05:32 With all due respect for everyone here, I want to thank you
12:05:35 very much.
12:05:35 And we will be back at --
12:05:42 >>FRANK REDDICK: Well, before he would adjourn, so are we
12:05:45 coming back to part A?
12:05:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We are coming back to part A to finish it
12:05:49 off and the other four.
12:05:51 Yes, sir.
12:05:56 Then I will discuss what happened
12:06:00 We stand adjourned until 1:30.
12:06:03 (Tampa City Council recessed until 1:30).
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12:06:17 >>MIKE COHEN: City Council's afternoon session is about to
01:36:46 Can we please have roll call?
01:36:48 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
01:36:51 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
01:36:53 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
01:36:54 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
01:36:59 >>HARRY COHEN: Chairman Miranda just called a minute ago
01:37:01 and he said he will be here in about five to ten minutes.
01:37:04 They had some car trouble on the way back from lunch.
01:37:07 So we are resuming our discussion of part A of agenda item
01:37:12 number 5, and I believe Councilwoman Capin was the last
01:37:18 person to speak.
01:37:21 Well, we are just picking up where we left off.
01:37:30 Does anyone have any additional comments related to item
01:37:33 number 5, part A?
01:37:41 >> Public comment?
01:37:48 >> I guess we could do that.
01:37:51 >>HARRY COHEN: We are going to take public comment at the
01:37:53 end of the workshop.
01:37:54 When we have completed we will be happy to hear from the
01:37:57 Councilman Mulhern.
01:38:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, we had public -- I thought we had
01:38:02 public comment.
01:38:04 >>HARRY COHEN: We had it on part B.
01:38:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Haven't had it on part A.
01:38:12 If no one --
01:38:14 >>HARRY COHEN: If there's no one additional I think we can
01:38:16 take comment on part 5-A.
01:38:19 >> Rick Fifer, Old Seminole Heights.
01:38:29 I don't know if I need to repeat the whole spiel again.
01:38:32 On the wet zoning issue, at the suggestion of 7 a.m. to
01:38:40 3 p.m -- 3 a.m., I we have got in Seminole Heights some that
01:38:48 have been grandfathered that have been there for a while
01:38:50 that have the traditional till 3 a.m.
01:38:53 We have the other ones that have been in place and has gone
01:38:56 into effect since, which is now the refinery, which we
01:39:03 generally had as a rule in the neighborhood that the alcohol
01:39:07 beverage serving establishments during weeknights Sunday
01:39:10 through Wednesday and at 11, and on Thursday, Friday and
01:39:17 Saturday, end at 1:00.
01:39:21 Very concerned of something that would overrule what we have
01:39:24 tried to do to prevent some of our concerns, and broadening
01:39:29 till 3 a.m. is just not a good idea for us, and we would be
01:39:33 very much opposed to that.
01:39:37 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I would like to -- thank you, I'm sorry.
01:39:40 >>HARRY COHEN: Do you want to wait till he finished?
01:39:42 >> If this is being done to address issues elsewhere, what I
01:39:47 am concerned about is that it not be broadened to negate
01:39:53 things that the neighborhood worked with the business
01:39:55 Many of the business owners that have open restaurants and
01:39:58 do have wet zonings actually live in the neighborhood so
01:40:02 they have been respectful.
01:40:02 But as Tom pointed out earlier, wet zonings are forever.
01:40:06 And my concern -- and I encourage people to keep the big
01:40:10 picture in mind -- once that wet zoning is there, your
01:40:15 friend may not have that and you may not like how they
01:40:21 That's why we would like to keep those parameters we have
01:40:23 had now for about seven years.
01:40:25 Thank you.
01:40:25 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Capin.
01:40:29 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Just to clarify.
01:40:30 What we have now on the books, if you will, to code, is
01:40:38 7 a.m. to 3 a.m. Monday through Saturday.
01:40:41 That's what's there now.
01:40:43 And 11 a.m. to 3 a.m. on Sunday.
01:40:48 That's what's there now.
01:40:49 What you are talking about is conditioned, and that would
01:40:55 not go away.
01:40:57 All I'm looking at is the business, the small businesses
01:41:00 that on Sunday people want to have brunch, and they have to
01:41:08 wait till after 11 a.m. instead of 10 a.m.
01:41:12 It's helping the businesses, because they are going across
01:41:14 the water to have brunch.
01:41:16 And that is what I was looking at.
01:41:18 Plus it would align it and make everything the same.
01:41:21 But changes anybody, if they have conditioned hours, from,
01:41:32 you know, 11 a.m. to 11 p.m., that's what they have on their
01:41:35 site plan.
01:41:36 It's just code.
01:41:39 Right now that's what we allow.
01:41:40 We allow 20 hours a day.
01:41:42 And if it's to code, they can serve anytime within those 20
01:41:46 hours, unless they have been conditioned.
01:41:49 And it's on the site plan, therefore it goes with the land.
01:41:53 Those conditions cannot -- they cannot, even if we change to
01:41:58 24 hours, that's the conditions they have.
01:41:59 That's the conditions they have to work understood.
01:42:02 Does that help?
01:42:04 >> Yeah, my concern is what will be going forward, if this
01:42:08 change goes forward, what I want to make sure of is the next
01:42:13 wet zoning request that comes into our neighborhood isn't
01:42:16 going to automatically fall under this broad umbrella and
01:42:18 not respect the guidelines of the neighborhood has been
01:42:21 advocating for years.
01:42:25 >>YVONNE CAPIN: They already do all over the city.
01:42:26 >> They don't in my neighborhood.
01:42:28 >> Well, if I find one -- up until 1998, there were never
01:42:35 conditions, and those were the hours.
01:42:36 Those are the hours.
01:42:38 Whether they open or not, those are the hours that they are
01:42:40 permitted to open unless it was conditioned.
01:42:44 I know what you are talking about.
01:42:46 But right now, as we stand, those are the hours that are
01:42:51 permitted in this city, which is 20 hours a day.
01:42:53 >> And we have businesses that were opened prior to that
01:42:57 time period, and I can rattle off the ones.
01:43:00 And I can rattle off the one that are open to about 2007 and
01:43:05 they do not and cannot.
01:43:07 Because we have opposed every single one.
01:43:10 >>YVONNE CAPIN: They asked for the hours.
01:43:11 I understand.
01:43:11 That it's not going to change them.
01:43:15 I can't get very clear on what I am trying to do. It's just
01:43:17 a matter of our code.
01:43:19 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilman Montelione.
01:43:21 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Mrs. Kert?
01:43:28 Can you explain the hours of operation that -- if what Mr.
01:43:41 Fifer was concerned about was not whether or not they can
01:43:46 stay open till three but whether they can open before
01:43:50 Now, come to the microphone.
01:43:57 >> My concern was that they could not serve past 11:00 at
01:44:06 night, Sunday through Wednesday.
01:44:12 Thank you.
01:44:13 And Thursday through Saturday they could stay open till 1.
01:44:18 Not when they open in the morning.
01:44:19 But how late they can stay open at night.
01:44:22 Primarily because the area is residential.
01:44:24 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So the establishments that have the land
01:44:28 use permit who have the hours on their site plan have the
01:44:31 hours on their site plan.
01:44:32 We can't change them unless somebody comes in and requests a
01:44:37 revision to their site plan approval to change the hours of
01:44:43 Correct, Ms. Kert?
01:44:45 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department, correct.
01:44:48 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And the special use application for
01:44:56 alcohol beverage permitting, how are those hours regulated?
01:45:04 Same thing if somebody wants to change what they have
01:45:07 already been granted they have to come in to request that?
01:45:10 >>REBECCA KERT: It sound like you are --
01:45:15 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I'm asking the same thing in a different
01:45:17 way, yeah.
01:45:18 But some people are confused by the terminology we use.
01:45:21 So when we use land use permits that runs with the land, and
01:45:25 we use the term SU-2, alcoholic beverage permitting, it's
01:45:30 the same thing.
01:45:31 >>REBECCA KERT: It is the same thing.
01:45:33 So the answer to both of those questions.
01:45:36 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And if we change our code for operating
01:45:40 hours, can you state the hours that we currently have,
01:45:44 >>REBECCA KERT: Currently the hours that you have are from
01:45:46 7 a.m. to 3 a.m. except for Sunday when the hours are
01:45:49 11 a.m. to 3 a.m.
01:45:51 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So our code, by our code, it's 3 a.m.,
01:45:56 Mr. Fifer.
01:45:58 So it's what I believe is being proposed is to make Sunday
01:46:05 earlier to allow for the people who want to have brunch.
01:46:09 So it would be allowing the Sunday hours to start at 7:00
01:46:15 and go to 3:00 just like the other days of the week.
01:46:22 You have to come to the microphone again.
01:46:23 But that's what I think we are getting at here.
01:46:27 But anyplace that has it on their site plan already has
01:46:32 those hours of operation.
01:46:33 And any new application that comes in would then be subject
01:46:37 to whatever it is by code.
01:46:40 So if we change the code to be, you know, 7 a.m. every day
01:46:44 of the week and 3 a.m. every day of the week, anybody who
01:46:47 comes in and has their hours on their site plan to code are
01:46:52 allowed those operating hours.
01:46:55 So that's the new applications.
01:46:59 It's what's being discussed which is why we are having this
01:47:04 Thank you.
01:47:04 >>MARY MULHERN: Next.
01:47:09 >> Jerry Frankhauser.
01:47:14 You really got me confused now, ma'am.
01:47:16 You really did a good job.
01:47:17 I thought people were allowed to keep their restaurants open
01:47:21 till noon -- or midnight, I'm sorry, from 7 a.m. to
01:47:24 I thought that was state law.
01:47:26 Give me some help.
01:47:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me see if I can help out a little
01:47:30 And I apologize for being late.
01:47:32 >> That's okay.
01:47:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The battery died on the car.
01:47:36 I have witnesses.
01:47:38 Never believe a politician.
01:47:40 But we had three other witness.
01:47:42 That's what happened.
01:47:44 I had a kind police officer so I could get here.
01:47:50 But what happened was.
01:47:51 This we were regulated by ourselves very carefully.
01:47:54 And every time somebody applied for a license, R,
01:48:00 restaurant, whatever, they would come and they would ask,
01:48:02 and depending on where they were in the neighborhood, they
01:48:06 would have different hours.
01:48:07 Sometimes from 7 in the morning till 10 or 11:00, and then
01:48:13 it went to midnight, and all of a sudden, about four or five
01:48:16 years ago, five or six years ago, through the Super Bowl,
01:48:20 someone came up and asked, it was a restaurant, to be open
01:48:24 till thee in the morning.
01:48:25 And I made those statements then, you can verify them
01:48:28 through the media, but it passed.
01:48:33 And I just took a guess, 2500 additional bars, because now
01:48:37 restaurants become bars, because now you can go till three
01:48:40 in the morning without respect to the neighborhood, without
01:48:42 anything of input.
01:48:44 That's what happened.
01:48:46 I'm not saying how the vote went or who it was.
01:48:48 I don't say none of those things.
01:48:50 But that's what happened.
01:48:51 And then there was another one that came up that used to be
01:48:56 Mayor Freedman changed that law to 51/49 back in the heyday.
01:49:02 Then that same one came here a couple of years ago and said,
01:49:05 I cannot meet the 51/49.
01:49:08 And again, this council voted to give it what they wanted.
01:49:13 They became a bar.
01:49:14 Even though they had a menu, even though they had a nice up
01:49:19 front, and guess what happened.
01:49:21 Both of those places are now closed on their own.
01:49:24 So that's what happened.
01:49:25 And some of us remember when it was to have a gas station
01:49:34 selling top go.
01:49:36 Oh, you can't drink and drive.
01:49:38 And that was a big thing and everyone was in an uproar about
01:49:44 That was back in the 70s.
01:49:45 So I'm trying to bring you some critique into what happened.
01:49:48 There is no state law that says from 7 to 11 or 7 to 12.
01:49:53 It has always been 7 to 3, if I recall it right.
01:49:57 But we had restrictions on whoever applied, if they knew
01:50:01 more about where they were at, what they could ask for.
01:50:04 And we stuck by.
01:50:05 That however, that changed with the modernization of time.
01:50:08 >> So when you get a license from the State of Florida, any
01:50:14 hours you want, basically?
01:50:15 >> Well, for 20 hours.
01:50:17 And correct me if I am wrong.
01:50:19 Either one of you because I am not an expert on alcohol.
01:50:21 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Planning and development.
01:50:24 In the state law it's actually midnight.
01:50:26 And then we locally have the ability to adopt different
01:50:31 hours, City of Tampa adopted three.
01:50:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: State law is midnight but we go to three.
01:50:36 >> That's what I understood that to be, midnight F.that's
01:50:39 the case, T.H.A.N. is really backing the business license
01:50:45 project, to give the business license from midnight to 3.
01:50:50 And we understand that it's going to take awhile to do that
01:50:53 because you can't get everybody's site plan changed in order
01:50:58 to change the law.
01:50:59 Now, some of them are going to stay open till 3 because they
01:51:03 are entitled to and they are going to do it whether they
01:51:05 make any money or not.
01:51:07 But at least you need to have the ones with the business
01:51:11 plan type thing, whatever is being proposed for that.
01:51:18 Then you can regulate it if there's any problem down the
01:51:21 But it's going to take awhile because the new ones are going
01:51:24 to have to be processed through that.
01:51:27 Thank you.
01:51:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Mulhern?
01:51:30 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
01:51:32 I want to clarify a little bit more than that, because the
01:51:37 other thing that happened, I guess it was in 2011, was that
01:51:49 this council approved the administrative process for
01:51:58 So I don't know what the hours for restaurants are.
01:52:07 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Prior to 2011, it was 3:00 just like
01:52:09 everything else.
01:52:10 It defaulted to the code.
01:52:12 The administrative documents requested the 11 p.m. closing,
01:52:16 and 1 a.m. Thursday, Friday and Saturday.
01:52:18 So prior to 2011, was either an ad hoc condition that their
01:52:23 applicant agreed to or defaulted to code which is 3 a.m.
01:52:26 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
01:52:28 So we have that at least protection if it's a restaurant
01:52:31 that doesn't want to come in front of council.
01:52:33 >> Thank you.
01:52:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
01:52:37 Anyone else who has not spoken on this item?
01:52:40 Any further comments by council members?
01:52:47 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes, thank you.
01:52:48 Do you recognize me?
01:52:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
01:52:51 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
01:52:53 There might have been a little bit misconception here.
01:52:56 No one is extending to 3 a.m.
01:52:57 What we are doing is, what I tried to do was add three hours
01:53:02 to Sunday morning.
01:53:04 That's it.
01:53:05 Nothing else is changing.
01:53:07 And when you talk about which is the morning -- and this is
01:53:13 brought to me by small businesses that ask for it because
01:53:17 people -- you know, he stood there and said that's the
01:53:21 American way, that's when I want to serve cocktails.
01:53:26 That's what people do, they have bloody Mary on Sunday
01:53:29 morning, they have their champagne cocktail, and the
01:53:32 businesses this year are not taking advantage of that
01:53:35 because they are moving on.
01:53:39 Sarasota has aligned their hours.
01:53:43 St. Petersburg.
01:53:45 So when we look at it, and we want to be, you know, the city
01:53:51 that welcomes everyone, young people work on a whole
01:53:55 different clock than we do.
01:53:57 And they have projects.
01:53:59 They'll work till 10, 11:00 at night.
01:54:02 I ran into a reporter when I represented district 4, and I
01:54:05 was out there on Howard Avenue, and I had a meeting, and
01:54:08 there were 80 people showed up, businesses, homeowners, and
01:54:11 the reporter that was there from the media, from the TV
01:54:15 station, said to me, I don't get done till after 11 p.m.
01:54:19 I want to find a place to eat.
01:54:23 I want to find a place to eat at 1 a.m.
01:54:25 I can't find it.
01:54:26 That was four years ago.
01:54:32 So that's what I was talking about.
01:54:36 But apparently, the misconception was nobody is extending
01:54:42 anything to 3 a.m. that's already there.
01:54:45 What I am trying to do is align the hours, particularly on
01:54:49 And you know what?
01:54:52 Whoever wants to go to church will go to church, and those
01:54:54 that don't, don't.
01:54:55 So the condition about church, you are not going to make
01:54:58 them go to church because all of a sudden you have a Mimosa
01:55:02 available at 9:00 a.m.
01:55:05 That is not going to happen.
01:55:06 You have got to give more credit to the public.
01:55:09 Than that.
01:55:12 That's what I was trying to do, help the small business.
01:55:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Reddick?
01:55:19 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Chairman, I would hate to see our city
01:55:22 become an intoxicated city on Sunday.
01:55:25 And that's basically what's going to happen if you start
01:55:28 allowing alcohol to be served at 10:00 in the morning.
01:55:33 So those with a hangover the night before won't drift into
01:55:37 us till the next morning. I don't want to see that happen.
01:55:40 And I think a lot of those people might be young folks.
01:55:45 And I just don't want to take that risk.
01:55:48 And I can't support that proposal.
01:55:51 But -- whoa, whoa, whoa.
01:55:59 Mr. Chair, but --
01:56:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think if we leave it alone, or just say
01:56:08 that nobody wants to do anything with part A.
01:56:13 It will be coming back here till I grow hair.
01:56:15 >>FRANK REDDICK: Yeah, I move till 2015, April.
01:56:31 >>YVONNE CAPIN: That's not the issue here.
01:56:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen.
01:56:34 >>HARRY COHEN: I will tell you, it is my intention after
01:56:37 the break to try to deal with some limited issues related to
01:56:43 parking and traffic and different things that are sort of
01:56:47 ancillary to this.
01:56:48 So I'm not sure that it's totally the end of the discussion,
01:56:54 but I am not prepared to make any motion regarding that now.
01:56:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I appreciate.
01:56:59 That I appreciate everything that's been said.
01:57:01 But every time you do one step forward, they come up with
01:57:04 something new.
01:57:05 And that something new now is parking.
01:57:09 And legal will tell you because when they sign a contract to
01:57:11 rent something for parking, it is a contract and is legal
01:57:14 but as soon as you go out that door, they throw it away or
01:57:17 break it, guess what, too bad.
01:57:20 You gave them the license and that's the end of it.
01:57:22 So somehow, Mr. Cohen, maybe you can work miracles, and it
01:57:26 will take some hard work to tie the parking into the
01:57:30 >>HARRY COHEN: Well, if you go back to the discussion we
01:57:33 were having before the break, that's a perfect example of
01:57:38 something that if it weren't in the land use regulation, but
01:57:45 were perhaps a business condition related to the approval,
01:57:48 that at least for auxiliary parking could be considered when
01:57:54 we are making our decision, because if the parking went
01:57:57 away, the approval would go away with it.
01:58:00 So, you know, these are directions we can go in moving
01:58:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Reddick, I believe
01:58:08 a second by Mrs. Mulhern.
01:58:09 Is that correct?
01:58:12 Mr. Reddick?
01:58:17 Well, as chairman, I have to say it's a motion.
01:58:22 I'm not God, you know.
01:58:24 >>FRANK REDDICK: I would make it as a motion because I am
01:58:26 not prepared.
01:58:27 I don't want this to come back before the end of the year.
01:58:30 My motion would be we postpone this to April 2015.
01:58:34 >> Second.
01:58:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Reddick.
01:58:39 I have a second by -- any further discussion?
01:58:42 >>HARRY COHEN: Yes, I do not want to have any motion, okay?
01:58:46 I think we should let this conversation lie, but I don't
01:58:50 think we should be precluded from bringing it up no matter.
01:58:56 (Multiple conversations.)
01:58:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I will second Mr. Reddick's motion.
01:59:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Hold it, hold it.
01:59:04 All in favor of the motion say aye.
01:59:06 Opposed nay.
01:59:07 Well --
01:59:11 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Can we have discussion or not on the motion?
01:59:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me undo the motion for discussion
01:59:15 I'm sorry, I got here late.
01:59:17 I'm sorry the car didn't burn.
01:59:21 [ Laughter ]
01:59:22 Well, it wasn't my car.
01:59:24 [ Laughter ]
01:59:26 I need a motion.
01:59:34 Rescind the motion.
01:59:35 Rescind the vote.
01:59:36 I have a motion rescinded so we can get back to the motion.
01:59:40 Nobody wants to second it?
01:59:41 Seconded by Mr. Cohen.
01:59:42 All in favor of the motion?
01:59:44 The ayes have it unanimously.
01:59:46 Mrs. Capin.
01:59:47 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay, here we go.
01:59:48 Yes, the noted the date this should come back which is April
01:59:55 15 which is the month right after the election.
01:59:57 Thank you very much.
01:59:58 That's exactly -- exactly -- whoever votes for this, I am
02:00:06 going to tell you right now, it is all about the election in
02:00:12 Thank you very much.
02:00:13 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
02:00:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any further discussion on the motion?
02:00:18 That will be a discussion for politics, if that's what you
02:00:21 want to call it, the election in March.
02:00:30 Do I have a second?
02:00:33 I have a motion by Mr. Reddick's motion.
02:00:35 Go back to the original motion by Mr. Reddick.
02:00:37 Seconded now by Mrs. Montelione.
02:00:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Was there a specific date attached to that
02:00:42 to come back?
02:00:44 >>FRANK REDDICK: We don't have a calendar.
02:00:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Oh, we'll get you a calendar, don't
02:00:52 The third Thursday in April.
02:00:54 >>FRANK REDDICK: Third Thursday in April.
02:00:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It appears to be the 17th?
02:01:03 >>FRANK REDDICK: April 17th.
02:01:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
02:01:08 Further discussion on the motion?
02:01:09 All in favor of the motion?
02:01:13 Motion passes 5-2.
02:01:17 Or 4 to 3.
02:01:21 Do you know?
02:01:21 Okay, motion passes 4 to 3.
02:01:25 All right.
02:01:25 Item number 6.
02:01:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, forgive me.
02:01:35 I was looking at the back of our calendar and I didn't
02:01:38 realize it was a 2014 calendar.
02:01:40 It's April 16th the date.
02:01:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I need to make another motion by Mr.
02:01:47 Reddick rescinding the motion.
02:01:49 Seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
02:01:50 >>FRANK REDDICK: Restate the motion by having April 16?
02:01:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All in favor of the motion to rescind the
02:02:01 Motion passed unanimously Mr. Reddick?
02:02:03 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move to postpone until April 16, 2015.
02:02:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's part A of item 5.
02:02:13 Motion made by Mr. Reddick.
02:02:15 Seconded by Mrs. Montelione at 10:00 in the morning.
02:02:17 All in favor of the motion signify by saying aye.
02:02:20 Opposed nay.
02:02:21 Motion passes 4-3.
02:02:25 With Suarez, Capin, Mulhern no.
02:02:36 Item number 6.
02:02:37 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Planning and development.
02:02:43 I am going to go through some of the questions that you
02:02:45 asked related to traffic impacts and mitigation and how we
02:02:48 study, why we study, traffic impacts, what triggers them,
02:02:59 and she's with the planning and urban design group, our
02:03:03 traffic engineering coordinator, and Steve Jonathan as well,
02:03:10 and John marsh is also on her team, most of the
02:03:13 administrative special uses and other requests that come
02:03:16 through the entitlement process.
02:03:18 So it's a team of planners, engineers that are review these
02:03:22 Melanie sits down with developers and actually carves out or
02:03:26 decides what the methodologies is going to be with the
02:03:30 outside engineers, and tells us essentially what areas to
02:03:33 study, which intersections and so forth.
02:03:36 But just to go through briefly the first document you have,
02:03:43 the 24th or whenever it is, but I did write on here last
02:03:48 time I noted, ironically, this item 6.
02:03:53 I gave you the background at the top with the ordinances.
02:03:56 In 2011, March 17th, City Council adopted changes to
02:04:02 chapter 17.5, which at the time was the planning and Land
02:04:05 Development Code.
02:04:08 The management manual.
02:04:12 And also on that date City Council adopted changes to the
02:04:16 transportation code chapter 25 and adopted the traffic
02:04:18 impact analysis and mitigation plan procedures manual.
02:04:22 You do have portions, excerpts grab from that manual in your
02:04:26 backup material.
02:04:28 But as far as the overview of the manual itself, what I did
02:04:32 was highlight some of the questions that you asked.
02:04:38 One of the procedures in the manual used and what do they
02:04:41 The first bullet point that determines traffic analysis is
02:04:46 required is how large an area is studied in the analysis,
02:04:50 what types of development, applications to make if a traffic
02:04:56 analysis is required.
02:04:57 These are the particular applications that come in that
02:04:59 trigger, your question about what triggers analysis.
02:05:04 The question of whether or not analysis is required.
02:05:07 We would evaluate whether one is required in a site plan
02:05:10 rezoning, building plan review and construction plan review.
02:05:14 So really everything from the entitlement coming to you and
02:05:17 asking for specific uses and square footages on land, all
02:05:21 the way to the actual physical construction permits.
02:05:26 Are there any exemptions in the manual?
02:05:29 Specific, the developments that fall under the no study
02:05:32 threshold are considered exempt from additional study within
02:05:37 this manual.
02:05:38 And it's classified as de minimis.
02:05:43 Projects that generate fewer than 100 net daily new trips
02:05:49 where driveway volume, with the generation rate, for further
02:05:56 study, shall mitigate their impact solely through the impact
02:06:00 of a impact fee.
02:06:02 There's already set fees based on this.
02:06:05 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm looking at this chart.
02:06:08 And is this what you were telling me was really old?
02:06:16 When was this list created?
02:06:25 >> Page 3, this is what was adopted.
02:06:27 This is the node study look-up table.
02:06:30 >>MARY MULHERN: Because some of these things don't -- it
02:06:34 doesn't seem quite right to me that high turnover
02:06:40 restaurant, supermarket.
02:06:43 >> Square footage of a supermarket.
02:06:46 So a supermarket comes in and does a thousand square foot
02:06:49 addition, hook up under the no threshold.
02:06:55 They are only doing a small addition, because those square
02:06:58 footages or rooms, or the single equal the daily trip at the
02:07:09 Supermarket is 1,000 square feet.
02:07:12 >>MARY MULHERN: So the unit is what they are asking for in
02:07:27 >> If you stay at the hotel, you look at it by room, so how
02:07:33 many trips it is, each room generates 8.17 trips.
02:07:37 If you add 13 rooms to the hotel, or if your hotel happens
02:07:40 to be 13 rooms only, which would be, I believe, that
02:07:45 generates 100 trips.
02:07:47 So that would be no study required.
02:07:49 But the low de minimis threshold.
02:07:53 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
02:07:54 So per square feet.
02:07:59 >> Square footage, stall, room, depends on what the use is.
02:08:05 It's done by room count.
02:08:09 A city park is actually an acre.
02:08:19 These are again all back to the trips generated through the
02:08:26 So the de minimis rate, the 100 trips, if you generate that
02:08:32 or less then we don't require the study.
02:08:37 But I was going to show you this.
02:08:41 I can keep going if you like.
02:08:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Go ahead.
02:08:44 >> Okay.
02:08:49 As far as other exemptions, there are areas of the city
02:08:51 defined, downtown revitalization district, downtown
02:08:55 community redevelopment areas, Channel District CRA.
02:09:00 They are not required to provide a traffic impact analysis
02:09:03 and mitigation plan, but they must mitigate site impacts.
02:09:10 And there's just the description of that at the end.
02:09:13 Just remember they must mitigate that impact.
02:09:15 Then the urban redevelopment district, that's Westshore,
02:09:19 University of South Florida, and the CRAs, the Heights,
02:09:24 Central Park Village and Ybor City.
02:09:25 They are required to provide a traffic impact analysis and
02:09:28 mitigation plan, but they are not required to conduct the
02:09:32 enhanced network impact analysis determination.
02:09:38 As defined in those sections.
02:09:41 And if you think about it, that description, that kind of
02:09:46 kicks off -- it's a tiered system.
02:09:50 You start with the no hookup table.
02:09:52 If you are generating something that's de minimis by that
02:09:55 table you are good to go.
02:09:57 If you are in a specific area that's exempt, then you are
02:10:00 Then the studies, they get a little more detailed in the
02:10:05 methodologys, essentially studying more and more as you go
02:10:09 out depending on the type of development and where you are.
02:10:12 So the other exemptions, in the no transportation impact fee
02:10:21 free zones, they are not required to provide the traffic
02:10:24 impact analysis and mitigation plan, but they must mitigate
02:10:27 site impacts.
02:10:29 An example I gave you, this is the map.
02:10:35 And it's written on your pages 5, 6, 7 and 8.
02:10:39 This is a city-wide map that shows you where those areas
02:10:42 are, and it shows you the city code that was amended to
02:10:47 actually identify them.
02:10:49 So you have the West Tampa impact fee exemption area.
02:10:53 East Tampa.
02:10:54 And Ybor City.
02:10:59 And included the area maps just to show you what they were.
02:11:01 So this is actually Ybor City.
02:11:04 These boundaries are adopted by City Council.
02:11:07 And impact fees.
02:11:12 This one is East Tampa.
02:11:25 And the last one is West Tampa.
02:11:28 So if you are within one of those areas already designated
02:11:32 as not having to pay impact fees, you also don't have to do
02:11:37 the mitigation study for traffic impact, but you must
02:11:43 mitigate site impact specifically.
02:11:48 Looking at your driveway.
02:11:49 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair.
02:11:55 Let me ask you a question about this.
02:11:57 Because I'm a little bit confused which is no surprise to
02:12:01 you I'm sure.
02:12:06 I thought you're a planner, gore God's sakes, you are
02:12:13 supposed to know this stuff.
02:12:13 >> And 30 years back, just the manual happens to be new.
02:12:20 >> I have a question.
02:12:20 When you are talking about the study area, let's say East
02:12:25 Tampa on this study area, no impact fee zone, and then you
02:12:32 are looking at the appendix 2, which is the node study
02:12:36 look-up table.
02:12:37 Now, when you are changing the use of a particular site,
02:12:42 would you not do -- and let's say it goes from a